Damn Skippy I'll Toss SJ Ass In On The Trade For Bledsoe

[WTF]

Johnson has been one of our best players and most effective players this season. Zeke said that on NBA TV not me. He is the glue player who makes stops, gets deflections, grabs big rebounds and has also been making his share of shots lately. He could be the next Dennis Rodman relating to his ability to defend multiple positions. But it is just like Zeke said, a lot of fans look at those players who score 18 to 20 points a game and say boy that is what we need.

Man you're too funny I doubt very seriously that Zeke said Stanley could be the next Dennis Rodman    How hard is it to be the best defender on the team in one's eyes if one thinks the rest of the team can't defend.  I guess Stanley is your Super Hero.

You're talking he potentially can defend all 5 positions that's not saying he can so until you have proof why tout it as fact.  We knew immediately that Rodman was special as rookie no one was saying in his 3rd year what Rodman can potentially be. Rodman was a lock down defender who defended every position on the court not just any players but the best of the best the ELITES, he was rebounding champ like 3 or 4 times.   You're crazy for even saying such nonsense Cool    I doubt that right now Stanley is on par with Hunter.


And Stop Lying On Zeke

[cool breeze]

Glen Davis is back, but in the G-League... wow.

Pistons sniffing around Bledsoe, with either Reggie & change, or Drummond as the bait? I might part with Reggie, but I'm not ready to give up on Drummond. However, with the way we're playing, do you futz with the chemistry now?

On the market... do we have any interest?
1.  Mario Hezonja, the Magic will make him unrestricted, was a 5th round draft pick
2.  Jahlil Okafor, same deal, unrestricted, but immediately available for the right price from the sixers
3. The perpetually available Hasheem Thabeet is available for damn near any price, LOL!

The three players mentioned who are available suck so bad it is amazing that anyone brought up their names.

[cool breeze]

Would you give up Stanley and Reggie for Bledsoe? Of course I wouldn't move either Kennard or Ellenson, but Stanley is expendable, IMO.

It’s unclear if the first-round pick would be enough to make an agreeable deal.

Phoenix can counter to ask for young players like Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard or Stanley Johnson to work with the available cap space, though none of those options seem particularly likely.

I sure would and maybe New Orleans could be that 3rd team since they showed some interest in Reggie over the summer.   I'm just not sold on SJ as a starter at the SF position.  I could be wrong but I don't it. 

No way you give up Luke or Henry

Neither you or Oracle understand the trade value of Stanley Johnson. Zeke does and he is a huge supporter of Johnson and you both know where I stand. I stand with Zeke not anybody who wants to throw in Johnson on a trade for Bledsoe. Who is sucking up the payroll on this Pistons team? Is it the 20 year old Johnson who is on his rookie contract? I have heard of stupid but this idea is about the worst thing for the Pistons that I can imagine. Johnson has been one of our best players and most effective players this season. Zeke said that on NBA TV not me. He is the glue player who makes stops, gets deflections, grabs big rebounds and has also been making his share of shots lately. He could be the next Dennis Rodman relating to his ability to defend multiple positions. But it is just like Zeke said, a lot of fans look at those players who score 18 to 20 points a game and say boy that is what we need. And those players are not breaking even relating to how much they give up on defense compared to how many points they score. There is no arguing when it comes to fans making up their minds to players they like. I like Johnson not because he played at Arizona but because his potential is off the charts. But maybe you believe that there are a lot of players who are 20 years old who have more potential than Johnson. So be it. That is basketball. It is foolish to argue about who fans like or dislike. You both clearly do not like Johnson.

Bledsoe might be a better offensive player than Reggie but he is the same type of player. He is a shooter who has issues running an offense. the NBA is full of those players. I am not sure but isn't he in the last year of his contract? Why would you believe he wants to be in Detroit playing with AD? I would take an even swap Reggie for Bledsoe. No first round picks unless the Suns give up their first round pick. SVG is not an idiot. He will not give away Johnson as you have both suggested. The only reason SVG would consider trading Johnson was if he knew that Johnson wants out of Detroit and will not sign a new contract with the Pistons. He is in high demand in the West Coast. teams will be lined up to sign him. Remember how young he is and what he can do on the defensive end and what his overall potential is down the line when he is 22? Do you want to build a championship team or get another shooter who cannot defend a fly. We already have too many of those players. Our team is very soft outside of Bradley and Johnson.

If you want to trade someone how about Andre Drummond? What is he worth on the market today? I think his worth is more than this past summer. But if SVG waits until December, January or Feb. it might be too late as that is when AD likes to become a slacker. He was a slacker in the Laker game. What can anyone predict he will do in the future? And he is our franchise player. If I were to attend a Piston game, I would do it to watch Bradley, Johnson, Ellenson and Kennard. I would not pay a nickel to watch AD, RJ, JL Boban, or Bullock based on the last game. Although Bradley did not have a good game against the Lakers, he played great against Golden State and the Clippers. It is very difficult for any 2 guard or small forward to look good playing with Reggie Jackson unless Jackson has the ability to change and actually learn how to run half court offense. I would remove both AD and RJ from the team as soon as possible and start over with money to spend and look to next year's draft for a top tier pick. Trading for Bledsoe will do nothing positive for this Piston team.

[Oracle]

[WTF]

Would you give up Stanley and Reggie for Bledsoe? Of course I wouldn't move either Kennard or Ellenson, but Stanley is expendable, IMO.

It’s unclear if the first-round pick would be enough to make an agreeable deal.

Phoenix can counter to ask for young players like Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard or Stanley Johnson to work with the available cap space, though none of those options seem particularly likely.

I sure would and maybe New Orleans could be that 3rd team since they showed some interest in Reggie over the summer.   I'm just not sold on SJ as a starter at the SF position.  I could be wrong but I don't it. 

No way you give up Luke or Henry

[Oracle]

Would you give up Stanley and Reggie for Bledsoe? Of course I wouldn't move either Kennard or Ellenson, but Stanley is expendable, IMO.

It’s unclear if the first-round pick would be enough to make an agreeable deal.

Phoenix can counter to ask for young players like Henry Ellenson, Luke Kennard or Stanley Johnson to work with the available cap space, though none of those options seem particularly likely.

[WTF]

Glen Davis is back, but in the G-League... wow.

Pistons sniffing around Bledsoe, with either Reggie & change, or Drummond as the bait? I might part with Reggie, but I'm not ready to give up on Drummond. However, with the way we're playing, do you futz with the chemistry now?

On the market... do we have any interest?
1.  Mario Hezonja, the Magic will make him unrestricted, was a 5th round draft pick
2.  Jahlil Okafor, same deal, unrestricted, but immediately available for the right price from the sixers
3. The perpetually available Hasheem Thabeet is available for damn near any price, LOL!

I'm not so sure the chemistry is cemented this early that we need to commit to it.   Reggie didn't go before the season as I predicted but it's still early enough in the season to move him.  

While I have no issue with moving AD I just wouldn't do it for Bledsoe without having a plan for replacing him with a more than serviceable starting center. I don't think defensively or offensively we'll miss AD.  His stats look great but we just gave up 64 pts in the paint in that Laker loss and who can forget what Embiid did to him.  

Really I don't think SVG can afford to stand pat and ride this roster out an entire season.  Rewards don't come without Risks

[WTF]

I'm going to stand on my prediction of 39 wins though there may be some early indications I might be wrong.  IMO this team has all the physical tools that you can look at them easily want to say 50 wins no problems and no hesitations.  

It's never been the physical ability about this team that concerns me, it's been and remains my concern with the leadership of the team from both the bench and on the floor that gives me a great amount of concern.   These next 8-10 games will test my theory of this teams mental capacity to stay focus regardless to the amount of bad coaching it receives.  

Though this team sit at 5-3 early indications are that the team has learned nothing from last season to now.  Well these next 10 games will IMO give us the clearest of picture of where we all are with our predictions.   I keep harping about next level and IMO winning out this home stretch of the next 5 games will represent next level type **** I expect and look for.  

The failure to win all three on their recent west coast trip didn't say next level it said same ole Pistons.  A win over the Lakers was all but penciled before the trip was even made and after being gifted victories over both the Clippers and Warrior they failed to deliver against the Lakers what should have been the easiest win.   This is why I can't jump on the hype of them being 5-3 right now.  That loss said more about this team and the coaching than the rest of the games combined.  This team collective can't get out of it own way because they'll continue to shoot themselves out of games and the coaching just plain sucks.

[Oracle]

Glen Davis is back, but in the G-League... wow.

Pistons sniffing around Bledsoe, with either Reggie & change, or Drummond as the bait? I might part with Reggie, but I'm not ready to give up on Drummond. However, with the way we're playing, do you futz with the chemistry now?

On the market... do we have any interest?
1.  Mario Hezonja, the Magic will make him unrestricted, was a 5th round draft pick
2.  Jahlil Okafor, same deal, unrestricted, but immediately available for the right price from the sixers
3. The perpetually available Hasheem Thabeet is available for damn near any price, LOL!

[Oracle]

Oracle, I'll move back up to 46 wins.  I lowered my prediction from 46 to 44, based on shaky PG play in the pre-season.  But through the first 8 games of the season, Jackson has played better than anyone could have hoped, and Ish, while inconsistent, has had some very nice games.  In addition to playing good, even though he's still not 100%, has been the surprise of him actually trying on defense. I hope he keeps that up. BTW, in that Laker game, Ish made at least 5 circus shots that the Lakers(and me) are still trying to figure out how they went in.

Of course, this could all change at any moment.  At any time, RJ's knee could begin to bother him again, or he could fall back into his old habits of dribbling the air out of the basketball, while the shot clock winds down.  But for now, PG play has been a surprise bright spot early in the season.  

Toliver and Galloway have also been pleasant surprises off the bench.

So I'll go with 46 wins and a 2nd round appearance.  Anything less will be disappointing, anything more, gravey.

[cool breeze]

Two more games to figure out where they're headed, given the mixed signals they're emitting.

Sounds like we agree about a lot of what we're seeing, Oracle.

I'd add one reservation, which may be controversial.  They're doing good things on D, but I'm still not convinced it's a very good defense.  They get back on D, keeping fast break points against down, and they team up well on D, and anticipate well, leading to lots of turnovers.  Still, I'm not so impressed by the physicality of their defense, or by the corresponding man-to-man ability (Stanley J's an exception, even though he couldn't match up with Porzingis).  Maybe I'm an antique in this respect, but I like to see dominating, aggressive, D of the sort the Bad Boys played.  I do understand you can't get away with a lot of that stuff anymore.  A few years ago, when Derrick Rose was MVP, my recollection is that LeBron could pretty well shut him down when defending against him.  Curry mentions Bradley as the best defender, but I didn't see him slow Steph down much.  But when LeBron defended against Curry in the playoffs a couple of years ago, Steph couldn't get much going.  Bradley's a good defender, but I see him more as a gadfly, creating problems with his positions (enabled by his energy) and his quick hands, than as a stifling, domineering, defender.

A football analogy: a defense can play smart, positioning itself well, doing a good job of teaming up, and causing lots of turnovers.  Those are terrific attributes.  That same defense can still have the ball run up the gut relentlessly, because it's being physically dominated.  That's what I fear for this D: that it will do a number of important things well, get some good results, but still be deficient in key ways.

Part of my concern is that even though I've heard multiple commentators praise AD and Reggie for improved defense, I'm still not sold on Dre's defensive positioning.  I saw part of that problem against Embiid and against Kanter.  My guess is that those watching the Lakers game saw something like that too.  Beyond that, I think that, insofar as there has been improvement, both AD and Reggie are candidates for regression, given their erratic attitudes, and the varying work efforts paired with that.

They play a scrappy defense, they've got some veteran leadership (I think) in Bradley and Tolliver, they added several players with high basketball I.Q.s.  They've got a fiend on the offensive boards, a really effective PG combo (thus far), an emerging offensive star in Harris, a deep bench, and, I think, a pretty good coach.  A lot of different people have stepped up.  All good stuff.

This is the foundation I see as well.

Offense will come and go, but being scrappy and delivering the effort can be 100% in our control. We have had some of that in the starting lineup before, but now it's all over the bench this season.

I don't think SVG could have found a better replacement for KCP than Bradley. He's not that much better than KCP, but he is better, and while I can't quite quantify this, I have a lot more confidence in his shooting. It may be as simple as the fact that I like his stroke much more, I'm not sure, but I do have more confidence in him.

Tolliver has been amazing so far and I agree, both he and Bradley deliver a lot of veteran leadership to this team that has been badly needed.

I too am cautiously optimistic, but I have the same feeling that you have... right now everything is very fragile.

A bad stretch could cause this whole house of cards to tumble!

That's why winning early is so important to build the confidence we need to weather the storms that WILL come.

Here's hoping...

The Laker game exposed the problems Detroit had last season because for the first time this season Luke Walton actually created a game plan to show off those Piston weaknesses. I pointed out several examples yesterday in my posts relating to details that SVG should be aware of. I am not impressed with AD's defense at all. Against the Lakers he didn't get the ball when he should have received the ball inside because Reggie had his head down doing his thing that had nothing to do with trying to win. He was trying to show off. So when AD didn't get those passes that he would have received from any competent point guard who can see the floor and cares about mis matches, AD mailed it in with his defensive effort. He did not run from baseline to baseline hard and I don't think he will ever do that if the Pistons don't create their own style on offense instead of trying to play the same style of their opponent. Detroit does not have enough outstanding outside shooters to just jack up shots early in the shot clock. They do not have outstanding ball handlers either. And for sure they really do not use a real point guard as their starter to get the team organized and play a style that is capable of beating a specific opponent. You do not try to run like the Lakers run because the Pistons do not have a point guard like Ball or the athletes that the lakers have on their team. Other teams do not play the Lakers like the Pistons maybe with the exception of Golden State or OKC. The coaching staff and Reggie Jackson were responsible for this loss along with AD's failure to provide interior defense this team needed to overcome the ineptness of the coaching and the point guard play. Ish Smith played pretty good but the Pistons needed to slow the pace to beat the Lakers on offense not increase the pace. If Bradley had been playing point guard he would not have been that stupid to increase the pace. It was madness. And the coaching staff on the Pistons were ineffective in changing this critical adjustment that should have taken place. Whatever happened within the Piston organization relating to creating a strategy to win based on the opponent the team is playing. Do you play to the opponent's strength or their weaknesses? It was clear that SVG's staff did nothing to create a game plan based on how the Laker's style of play. The players also should be held accountable because they did not watch game film of the Lakers and what opponents of the Lakers did to have successful games against them. It was the blind leading the blind relating to Piston coaching and player performance. And Stanley Johnson had nothing to do with that loss. He barely ever touched the basketball. This was another funky stupid selfish exhibition of one on one basketball where the Piston team seldom ran one half court set play that they practiced in training camp. Reggie had had some success in previous games so it was going to be a game where Reggie would show up Ball. Ball made a fool out of Reggie and exploited his shoddy defense. And SVG never took Reggie off Ball all night long and put Johnson on Ball to bully him into making mistakes. That is how opposing team beat UCLA and Ball last season. He is the head of the snake. You can't put Pee Wee Herman on Ball and expect to be successful. You need to put your best defender on Ball. SVG had his head where the sun doesn't shine. And Zeke knew going into that game what would happen if somebody didn't put a leash on Reggie and for sure not allow him to defend Ball. The devil is in the details. I wish more posters would actually be objective when watching games like the Laker game. This type of nonsense went on for the entire last half of last season. There were two big factors that stood out showing off pitiful coaching skills of this Piston coaching staff. The first error was the Reggie = Ball Matchup where Luke Walton made a fool out of SVG. The other glaring error was the matchup Walton wanted with Randle vs Leuer which was a duel that Detroit was sure to lose if SVG dared to actually play Leuer in that game against Randle. Randle went at Leuer much like Arron Gordon did in the last game of the season when the pistons played Orlando. SVG seems to have learned nothing as to when Leuer can be effective and when he needs to sit on the bench. When will SVG start actually doing his job in game preparation? If SVG read this post he would know that I am right and that he has been exposed as a lazy ass with his day to day game strategy against specific opponents. He is just winging it from game to game matching up players without a damn thought in his head as to the impact that he is responsible for creating. Does any of this make sense for those of you who actually watched this game???? After about 5 minutes went by in the first quarter, I was saying to myself that Luke Kennard would for sure not fall into the idiotic run and gun game Detroit displayed against the Lakers where no offense was run at all for most of the game. Luke is not as dumb as Reggie. The Pistons had nothing to lose the way that game was going. But I forgot SVG has Kennard on the inactive list and is playing the guy with the past drug issues in the rotation. So much for player development this season. I expect that because Ellenson has not been making many shots he will soon be on the inactive list as well so Leuer can matchup with any future opponent much like he did against Randle. SVG will make him into a super star and force us to watch him as the player develops before our eyes. He is the chosen one. He is SVG's $10 million dollar man. Yet there is a place for Leuer on this roster. He can play against certain teams. But please SVG you were a damn idiot not to stop the bleeding when you put Leuer in to contain Randle. Details to count. Random comments prove nothing.

[Sparma]

Thanks Don. I'll look for that alternative the next time they tell me a game's blacked out. I don't have TV, so can't do it that way. But I'm guessing the option will be available via my computer? We'll see.

Interesting post, Don, providing some detail on what happened.  I get the games of one team on my NBA Pass; last night's game was blacked out for me, maybe because a national TV station carried it.  I can go back and watch it, but not sure a 20 point loss is so compelling, or the best use of my time.

If memory serves, a lot of times teams struggle with the first game at home after a road trip, so it will be interesting to see how Friday's game plays out against a Milwaukee, which I see as generally a stronger team than our Pistons.  But then the break, until Friday, is longer than after most trips.

No you can't put the blame on Reggie most of the losses this team will have this season will be coach related.   I say it again and keep saying it you can't keep jacking up 3's 30 plus times a game while hitting them barely at a 30% clip and expect to win games.  

I like Harris but I think he shoots entirely way too many 3's, Bradley was horrible.


You can't tell me that going to the FT line 3 times in a freaking game is okay who the hell going to foul you while you're misfiring on 3pt attempts.  This is a dumbass coach.

Exactly WTF!

Sparma you advised that you were not able to get the Laker game because you only purchased the one team option PASS offered. You had previously referred to that option that I didn't know about so because of you, I was able to save some money by limiting my subscription to getting only Piston games. When I saw that the Piston network was not broadcasting the Laker game and it wasn't on TNT or ESPN I was able to find that NBA TV was showing the game on their network. You should have NBA TV with your subscription because I found that I had it. DISH Network is my provider and that channel is located on 470-1. I really like it when Piston games get on that channel because then I get to hear Zeke's perspective along with the view point of Steve Smith. Maybe I enjoy their take on games the best because I think like they think when it comes to what is going on in basketball games.

This leads me to mention one comment that a poster casually stated about Stanley Johnson and his performance in the last game. I won't mention his name but he made a ignorant statement relating to Stanley Johnson being a bust. How could anyone who actually watches games this season say that? He is a bust. Meanwhile Isiah Thomas stated in the Laker game that the Pistons need more players like Stanley Johnson. Johnson needs to touch the ball more on offense. He is the play maker on the team. Most of the other players with the exception of Bradley and Galloway are just shooters and those shooters do not have elite skills relating to shooting.

I attended the opening basketball game for Arizona last night. Remember this name = Deandre Ayton. If he is not the number one pick if healthy at the end of the season I will be surprised. He is 7' 2 inches tall, weighs 245 pounds and has a standing vertical of 45 inches. He was touching the top of the backboard in warm ups. He is not the typical big man because he looks extremely athletic and only has been playing basketball since he was 13 years old but already has a good post up game, a soft accurate jump shot up to 8 to 10 feet, blocks shots and is very quick to loose balls and missed shots. His basketball mind is light years ahead of Andre Drummond and he is only 18 years old. He stole the ball twice and went coast to coast running like a deer too. Time will tell what his skill level will be by spring but he stood out like Labron did in that McDonalds All Star game he played. A man against boys would be the best description of the game last night. What is amazing is how good some 18 year olds are in today's game. He is not alone in his skill level at that age. In the old era when our Bad Boys played those players might have had less than 150 games under their belt before they entered college. Now these kids are playing against the best competition while traveling throughout the country and playing up to 75 to 80 games a year. This added experience can do nothing but improve the overall skill set of all big men who play in those travel clubs even though they get inept coaching have have less some shady coaches and executives involved with those clubs. I still prefer following the old high school setting where some of the elite players stick it out playing with the friends they made growing up and form this bond that stays in effect for their entire lives. I still have close relationships with my teammates from football and basketball days as I am sure many posters do who write on this forum. But for ultra elite players it is very difficult to pass up the opportunity to play in those traveling clubs and go up against the best players in America often. With that said, the younger GMs in the NBA recognize the facts of life perhaps better than some of the old school people like Stan Van Gundy when it comes to making hard decisions to blow up a team that has no chance of ever winning a title. They know the skill sets some of these young guns have and how quickly they can adapt to the NBA game that doesn't value team orientated play and prohibit strong defensive players from playing strong defense with the rules in place by the show business driven NBA executives.

[cool breeze]

Two more games to figure out where they're headed, given the mixed signals they're emitting.

Sounds like we agree about a lot of what we're seeing, Oracle.

I'd add one reservation, which may be controversial.  They're doing good things on D, but I'm still not convinced it's a very good defense.  They get back on D, keeping fast break points against down, and they team up well on D, and anticipate well, leading to lots of turnovers.  Still, I'm not so impressed by the physicality of their defense, or by the corresponding man-to-man ability (Stanley J's an exception, even though he couldn't match up with Porzingis).  Maybe I'm an antique in this respect, but I like to see dominating, aggressive, D of the sort the Bad Boys played.  I do understand you can't get away with a lot of that stuff anymore.  A few years ago, when Derrick Rose was MVP, my recollection is that LeBron could pretty well shut him down when defending against him.  Curry mentions Bradley as the best defender, but I didn't see him slow Steph down much.  But when LeBron defended against Curry in the playoffs a couple of years ago, Steph couldn't get much going.  Bradley's a good defender, but I see him more as a gadfly, creating problems with his positions (enabled by his energy) and his quick hands, than as a stifling, domineering, defender.

A football analogy: a defense can play smart, positioning itself well, doing a good job of teaming up, and causing lots of turnovers.  Those are terrific attributes.  That same defense can still have the ball run up the gut relentlessly, because it's being physically dominated.  That's what I fear for this D: that it will do a number of important things well, get some good results, but still be deficient in key ways.

Part of my concern is that even though I've heard multiple commentators praise AD and Reggie for improved defense, I'm still not sold on Dre's defensive positioning.  I saw part of that problem against Embiid and against Kanter.  My guess is that those watching the Lakers game saw something like that too.  Beyond that, I think that, insofar as there has been improvement, both AD and Reggie are candidates for regression, given their erratic attitudes, and the varying work efforts paired with that.

They play a scrappy defense, they've got some veteran leadership (I think) in Bradley and Tolliver, they added several players with high basketball I.Q.s.  They've got a fiend on the offensive boards, a really effective PG combo (thus far), an emerging offensive star in Harris, a deep bench, and, I think, a pretty good coach.  A lot of different people have stepped up.  All good stuff.

This is the foundation I see as well.

Offense will come and go, but being scrappy and delivering the effort can be 100% in our control. We have had some of that in the starting lineup before, but now it's all over the bench this season.

I don't think SVG could have found a better replacement for KCP than Bradley. He's not that much better than KCP, but he is better, and while I can't quite quantify this, I have a lot more confidence in his shooting. It may be as simple as the fact that I like his stroke much more, I'm not sure, but I do have more confidence in him.

Tolliver has been amazing so far and I agree, both he and Bradley deliver a lot of veteran leadership to this team that has been badly needed.

I too am cautiously optimistic, but I have the same feeling that you have... right now everything is very fragile.

A bad stretch could cause this whole house of cards to tumble!

That's why winning early is so important to build the confidence we need to weather the storms that WILL come.

Here's hoping...

[cool breeze]

Interesting post, Don, providing some detail on what happened.  I get the games of one team on my NBA Pass; last night's game was blacked out for me, maybe because a national TV station carried it.  I can go back and watch it, but not sure a 20 point loss is so compelling, or the best use of my time.

If memory serves, a lot of times teams struggle with the first game at home after a road trip, so it will be interesting to see how Friday's game plays out against a Milwaukee, which I see as generally a stronger team than our Pistons.  But then the break, until Friday, is longer than after most trips.

No you can't put the blame on Reggie most of the losses this team will have this season will be coach related.   I say it again and keep saying it you can't keep jacking up 3's 30 plus times a game while hitting them barely at a 30% clip and expect to win games.  

I like Harris but I think he shoots entirely way too many 3's, Bradley was horrible.


You can't tell me that going to the FT line 3 times in a freaking game is okay who the hell going to foul you while you're misfiring on 3pt attempts.  This is a dumbass coach.

Exactly WTF!

Sparma you advised that you were not able to get the Laker game because you only purchased the one team option PASS offered. You had previously referred to that option that I didn't know about so because of you, I was able to save some money by limiting my subscription to getting only Piston games. When I saw that the Piston network was not broadcasting the Laker game and it wasn't on TNT or ESPN I was able to find that NBA TV was showing the game on their network. You should have NBA TV with your subscription because I found that I had it. DISH Network is my provider and that channel is located on 470-1. I really like it when Piston games get on that channel because then I get to hear Zeke's perspective along with the view point of Steve Smith. Maybe I enjoy their take on games the best because I think like they think when it comes to what is going on in basketball games.

This leads me to mention one comment that a poster casually stated about Stanley Johnson and his performance in the last game. I won't mention his name but he made a ignorant statement relating to Stanley Johnson being a bust. How could anyone who actually watches games this season say that? He is a bust. Meanwhile Isiah Thomas stated in the Laker game that the Pistons need more players like Stanley Johnson. Johnson needs to touch the ball more on offense. He is the play maker on the team. Most of the other players with the exception of Bradley and Galloway are just shooters and those shooters do not have elite skills relating to shooting.

I attended the opening basketball game for Arizona last night. Remember this name = Deandre Ayton. If he is not the number one pick if healthy at the end of the season I will be surprised. He is 7' 2 inches tall, weighs 245 pounds and has a standing vertical of 45 inches. He was touching the top of the backboard in warm ups. He is not the typical big man because he looks extremely athletic and only has been playing basketball since he was 13 years old but already has a good post up game, a soft accurate jump shot up to 8 to 10 feet, blocks shots and is very quick to loose balls and missed shots. His basketball mind is light years ahead of Andre Drummond and he is only 18 years old. He stole the ball twice and went coast to coast running like a deer too. Time will tell what his skill level will be by spring but he stood out like Labron did in that McDonalds All Star game he played. A man against boys would be the best description of the game last night. What is amazing is how good some 18 year olds are in today's game. He is not alone in his skill level at that age. In the old era when our Bad Boys played those players might have had less than 150 games under their belt before they entered college. Now these kids are playing against the best competition while traveling throughout the country and playing up to 75 to 80 games a year. This added experience can do nothing but improve the overall skill set of all big men who play in those travel clubs even though they get inept coaching have have less some shady coaches and executives involved with those clubs. I still prefer following the old high school setting where some of the elite players stick it out playing with the friends they made growing up and form this bond that stays in effect for their entire lives. I still have close relationships with my teammates from football and basketball days as I am sure many posters do who write on this forum. But for ultra elite players it is very difficult to pass up the opportunity to play in those traveling clubs and go up against the best players in America often. With that said, the younger GMs in the NBA recognize the facts of life perhaps better than some of the old school people like Stan Van Gundy when it comes to making hard decisions to blow up a team that has no chance of ever winning a title. They know the skill sets some of these young guns have and how quickly they can adapt to the NBA game that doesn't value team orientated play and prohibit strong defensive players from playing strong defense with the rules in place by the show business driven NBA executives.

[Sparma]

Two more games to figure out where they're headed, given the mixed signals they're emitting.

Sounds like we agree about a lot of what we're seeing, Oracle.

I'd add one reservation, which may be controversial. They're doing good things on D, but I'm still not convinced it's a very good defense. They get back on D, keeping fast break points against down, and they team up well on D, and anticipate well, leading to lots of turnovers. Still, I'm not so impressed by the physicality of their defense, or by the corresponding man-to-man ability (Stanley J's an exception, even though he couldn't match up with Porzingis). Maybe I'm an antique in this respect, but I like to see dominating, aggressive, D of the sort the Bad Boys played. I do understand you can't get away with a lot of that stuff anymore. A few years ago, when Derrick Rose was MVP, my recollection is that LeBron could pretty well shut him down when defending against him. Curry mentions Bradley as the best defender, but I didn't see him slow Steph down much. But when LeBron defended against Curry in the playoffs a couple of years ago, Steph couldn't get much going. Bradley's a good defender, but I see him more as a gadfly, creating problems with his positions (enabled by his energy) and his quick hands, than as a stifling, domineering, defender.

A football analogy: a defense can play smart, positioning itself well, doing a good job of teaming up, and causing lots of turnovers. Those are terrific attributes. That same defense can still have the ball run up the gut relentlessly, because it's being physically dominated. That's what I fear for this D: that it will do a number of important things well, get some good results, but still be deficient in key ways.

Part of my concern is that even though I've heard multiple commentators praise AD and Reggie for improved defense, I'm still not sold on Dre's defensive positioning. I saw part of that problem against Embiid and against Kanter. My guess is that those watching the Lakers game saw something like that too. Beyond that, I think that, insofar as there has been improvement, both AD and Reggie are candidates for regression, given their erratic attitudes, and the varying work efforts paired with that.

They play a scrappy defense, they've got some veteran leadership (I think) in Bradley and Tolliver, they added several players with high basketball I.Q.s.  They've got a fiend on the offensive boards, a really effective PG combo (thus far), an emerging offensive star in Harris, a deep bench, and, I think, a pretty good coach.  A lot of different people have stepped up.  All good stuff.

This is the foundation I see as well.

Offense will come and go, but being scrappy and delivering the effort can be 100% in our control. We have had some of that in the starting lineup before, but now it's all over the bench this season.

I don't think SVG could have found a better replacement for KCP than Bradley. He's not that much better than KCP, but he is better, and while I can't quite quantify this, I have a lot more confidence in his shooting. It may be as simple as the fact that I like his stroke much more, I'm not sure, but I do have more confidence in him.

Tolliver has been amazing so far and I agree, both he and Bradley deliver a lot of veteran leadership to this team that has been badly needed.

I too am cautiously optimistic, but I have the same feeling that you have... right now everything is very fragile.

A bad stretch could cause this whole house of cards to tumble!

That's why winning early is so important to build the confidence we need to weather the storms that WILL come.

Here's hoping...

[Murph]

Oracle, I'll move back up to 46 wins.  I lowered my prediction from 46 to 44, based on shaky PG play in the pre-season.  But through the first 8 games of the season, Jackson has played better than anyone could have hoped, and Ish, while inconsistent, has had some very nice games.  

Of course, this could all change at any moment.  At any time, RJ's knee could begin to bother him again, or he could fall back into his old habits of dribbling the air out of the basketball, while the shot clock winds down.  But for now, PG play has been a surprise bright spot early in the season.  

Toliver and Galloway have also been pleasant surprises off the bench.

So I'll go with 46 wins and a 2nd round appearance.  Anything less will be disappointing, anything more, gravey.

[Phil-Good]

A few takeaways from The Lakers game.

1. Stanley Johnson still looks like A bust to me.

2. WOW the Lakers are well coached..

3. If Drummonds understood that Defense and shot blocking was his ticket to being as famous as he really wants to be SO BAD! He could actually be good. But He don't get it.. I hope A good trade offer comes along for Drummonds one day and his time in Detroit ends.

4. WOW. Where in the hell did Kuzma and how come he not playing for the Detroit Pistons?

5. I hope Reggie Jackson keeps doing his thing. Get that trade value back up and somebody will BIT!!

6. I'm so happy KCP is not making Max money and destroying any hope of the Pistons having A FUTURE!

7. The Pistons should have won that game. They are better then the Lakers.

8. Ellinson took some good shots. They did not fall but they all were good shots. That kid is ready to replace John Leuer.

9. Luke has to find some PT. Kid has special talent.

10. Keep grinding Detroit. Great road trip. Best road trip in over 5 years in my opinion.

[Oracle]

We play out 10th game on Nov 4th.

So the final predictions need to be entered before the 11th game on Wednesday November 8th.

Good Luck and may the most optimistic poster win!

[Oracle]

They play a scrappy defense, they've got some veteran leadership (I think) in Bradley and Tolliver, they added several players with high basketball I.Q.s.  They've got a fiend on the offensive boards, a really effective PG combo (thus far), an emerging offensive star in Harris, a deep bench, and, I think, a pretty good coach.  A lot of different people have stepped up.  All good stuff.

This is the foundation I see as well.

Offense will come and go, but being scrappy and delivering the effort can be 100% in our control. We have had some of that in the starting lineup before, but now it's all over the bench this season.

I don't think SVG could have found a better replacement for KCP than Bradley. He's not that much better than KCP, but he is better, and while I can't quite quantify this, I have a lot more confidence in his shooting. It may be as simple as the fact that I like his stroke much more, I'm not sure, but I do have more confidence in him.

Tolliver has been amazing so far and I agree, both he and Bradley deliver a lot of veteran leadership to this team that has been badly needed.

I too am cautiously optimistic, but I have the same feeling that you have... right now everything is very fragile.

A bad stretch could cause this whole house of cards to tumble!

That's why winning early is so important to build the confidence we need to weather the storms that WILL come.

Here's hoping...

[Sparma]

I've got blinders on as a fan, just watching Pistons' games.  It seems clear that Moore's got more confidence in the Pistons (pre-Lakers) than Orlando.  I'll happily go along with that.

The Pistons are really hard to figure, what with outstanding games, along with clunkers.

Here's a solid recipe for a high floor/minimal achievement: 1) get back on defense, 2) get lots of turnovers, and 3) don't turn the ball over much.  I'm pretty sure, #1 and #3 are sustainable, at least.  With guys like Bradley, Johnson, scrambling on D, #2 should be too.

They play a scrappy defense, they've got some veteran leadership (I think) in Bradley and Tolliver, they added several players with high basketball I.Q.s.  They've got a fiend on the offensive boards, a really effective PG combo (thus far), an emerging offensive star in Harris, a deep bench, and, I think, a pretty good coach.  A lot of different people have stepped up.  All good stuff.

But they've already been pretty erratic, and I expect that to continue, although I do see them continuing on the positive side of the ledger.

I don't think the numbers bear out yet the biggest problem I see, the main cause for concern moving forward: their offense looks super unreliable to me.  Harris has had some great games, Reggie looked spectacular in the 2nd quarter against GS, they've had stretches of really good outside shooting, with Galloway shooting lights out.

I'm not buying in on O though, not yet.  Harris's shooting's coming down, and already has some.  Galloway's a good shooter, not great.  They're starting a guy, in SJ, who looks really raw on O.  I expect Reggie to go hero mode at any time.  Can AD really keep up making good decisions on O, yet alone his unprecedented FT throwing?  Bradley's another who's a good shooter, not great.  

And yes, we don't turn the ball over much, but correspondingly we don't pass very creatively.  Reggie's consistently had nice passes straight to the basket, but when he passes to the side, a lot of times there's no element of surprise, of getting the opponent out of position.  And his tepid passes still tend to come late in the clock. So the low turnovers may be a mixed blessing, if paired with an uncreative O.

Beyond that, if things start going sour, I think major locker room troubles will emerge.  SVG, now an effective manager of his roster, will wear thin as the sourpuss he is.

My sense is that folks are willing to run back partly because AD's working hard.  They can rely on him to do damage on the offensive boards on his own even as they make a (mental) turn to D.  If things get shaky, AD will get moody, and we might see some corresponding decline on team defense.  Reggie going into egoist mode could have a negative effect on team D too.

Really hard to predict now.  But fun so far.  I'm cautiously optimistic, and do at least see a winning season on the way.

Saw this article, here's a snippet.

Blogtable: Do you believe in Orlando Magic or Detroit Pistons more?

Each week, we ask our scribes to weigh in on the most important NBA topics of the day.

David Aldridge:Despite their loss to the Lakers Tuesday, I'm still more Team Detroit at present, for a couple of reasons. Last season, Orlando was 29th in the NBA in 3-point percentage (.328) and 29th in Offensive Rating (101.2). Through the first two weeks of this season, the Magic is first in 3-point percentage (.441) and second in Offensive Rating (110.9). I just don't think that kind of perimeter turnaround is sustainable over the course of an entire season. Big men Aaron Gordon and Nikola Vucevic look comfortable shooting 3-pointers so far, but it's a long season and big guys wear down. The Magic does have significant upside, to be sure (Gordon playing more at center? Sign me up!), and if there's one thing coach Frank Vogel can build, it's a defense-first team.

But I just like Detroit's group. I'm a big Avery Bradley guy; he's a winner and almost everything he does on the court leads to more winning. We'll see if Tobias Harris and Stanley Johnson can be the answers up front, but IMHO, there's no reason Harris can't continue to be a go-to guy. Plus, Andre Drummond looks poised for a big ol' season, and if he gets back to being disruptive defensively and a Hoover on the boards, Detroit can compete against anyone. It would help them if more people actually show up at Little Caesars Arena.

[Oracle]

Saw this article, here's a snippet.

Blogtable: Do you believe in Orlando Magic or Detroit Pistons more?

Each week, we ask our scribes to weigh in on the most important NBA topics of the day.

David Aldridge:Despite their loss to the Lakers Tuesday, I'm still more Team Detroit at present, for a couple of reasons. Last season, Orlando was 29th in the NBA in 3-point percentage (.328) and 29th in Offensive Rating (101.2). Through the first two weeks of this season, the Magic is first in 3-point percentage (.441) and second in Offensive Rating (110.9). I just don't think that kind of perimeter turnaround is sustainable over the course of an entire season. Big men Aaron Gordon and Nikola Vucevic look comfortable shooting 3-pointers so far, but it's a long season and big guys wear down. The Magic does have significant upside, to be sure (Gordon playing more at center? Sign me up!), and if there's one thing coach Frank Vogel can build, it's a defense-first team.

But I just like Detroit's group. I'm a big Avery Bradley guy; he's a winner and almost everything he does on the court leads to more winning. We'll see if Tobias Harris and Stanley Johnson can be the answers up front, but IMHO, there's no reason Harris can't continue to be a go-to guy. Plus, Andre Drummond looks poised for a big ol' season, and if he gets back to being disruptive defensively and a Hoover on the boards, Detroit can compete against anyone. It would help them if more people actually show up at Little Caesars Arena.

[Sparma]

Moore:

"The following was written prior to the Pistons' 113-93 loss to the Lakers Tuesday night ...

I'm not going to lie to you. Even if I only half-believe the criticisms delivered for the teams in this post ... I can't find a way to tear down Detroit. The Pistons are top five in fast-break points allowed, second-chance points allowed, points off turnovers allowed and are seventh in points in the paint allowed (per 100 possessions).




They're shooting well, but not unsustainably hot (13th in effective field-goal percentage). They're dead-last in free-throw rate, which is baffling considering Andre Drummond, until you see that he's shooting 70 percent to start this season after shooting 50 percent through the first seven games last year. Teams will likely go to hack-a-Drummond eventually, but for right now, those are good numbers.

Their win profile is terrific. When they knocked off the Clippers in L.A., that was good enough. The Warriors on a road-road back to back? That's a schedule loss. Nope. The Pistons foiled my fiendish plot. For right now, at last, they're legit.

For right now ..."

[WTF]

It's not hard seeing the circus act the NBA has become since the 80's and all the rule changes.  No longer are players fundamentally prepared with just the basics under of the game coaches no longer coach players.   

What once was solely a gimmick is a persistent joke pass off as offense.   Remember when the ISO was only meant for players like MJ and not MJ wannabe players.  Nowadays everyone is the king of ISO,  taking 3's were also a gimmick most times this shot were only attempted to seal a win or obtain a tying score if you were down by 3 in a clutch or deciding moment of a game.   They were actually plays designed for that purpose back then I don't know right off Larry Birds percentage but we do know he was clutch when he did take them but I can't recall him jacking up 9 blanks in a game or any other player taking those 3's back then.  

It's like and1 was the way to do it,  you all remember the other way to doing it being down 3 looking for the tie was to draw a foul make one FT and miss the next hoping to gain possession for a put back or tip in.   Nowadays it's Fire At Will and ISO

I wish things could go back as it use to be

[cool breeze]

This one point that I stated in a previous post stays with me. This coaching staff has coaches who make a huge amount of money. What are they doing between games to prepare the players and have standards that players must be held to if the team is going to be successful. What I saw last night was nothing more than a pick up game or scrimmage where on team had a smart coach who had done his homework to exploit his opponent's weaknesses. Are you listening Mr. Gores? That coach was Luke Walton. The losing coach was Mr. Gores coach. Unlike the previous two games on this road trip, Stan Van Gundy's team had no idea who they were going up against. It was of the upmost importance to put a strong defender on Ball and prevent him from getting space to pick apart the Piston defense. And it was even more important for the Pistons to make Ball work on defense. Instead, Walton and his staff studied Jackson's tendencies along with the tendencies of Harris. They got both players to skip running a half court offense and make the other three Piston players completely ineffective. The owner must hold his coaching staff accountable if he wants to know the details about how his team lost so badly to a young inexperienced team that usually makes a lot of mistakes on both offense and defense. Our Pistons played so horribly on offense that they could never get their defense set. They were always playing in transition allowing the opposing team to run. Often our starting center never made it back on defense before the Lakers scored. But every sign that this game would get out of hand was there for the Piston coaching staff to see but they didn't see.

I really like how Magic Johnson selected Ball with his first round pick. Ball plays the opposite way of most NBA point guards in this insane fast paced AAU style of play the NBA front office has created. But if you took our old Bad Boys out of their era and placed them into the current way most teams play, Isiah Thomas and his Pistons would clean up on every team in the league using their style of play even though the rules on defense have changed. Forcing the modern day NBA teams to play through the shot clock on defense where hard screen are set on every possession and the team is smart enough to hold back their shots and play the 3rd or 4th options using both sides of the court would sink most teams by the time the 4th quarter rolled around. I loved the comments by Isiah Thomas and Steve Smith last night. They know what the hell they are talking about.

[Oracle]

No you can't put the blame on Reggie most of the losses this team will have this season will be coach related.   I say it again and keep saying it you can't keep jacking up 3's 30 plus times a game while hitting them barely at a 30% clip and expect to win games.  

I like Harris but I think he shoots entirely way too many 3's, Bradley was horrible.

You can't tell me that going to the FT line 3 times in a freaking game is okay who the hell going to foul you while you're misfiring on 3pt attempts.  This is a dumbass coach.

This team has some potential, but you're right, the coach will destroy it all.

Everybody loves the 3 point shot... until the damn thing isn't going in anymore.

There were a few plays that I thought we should have been on the line, but hell, that would raise it to maybe 5 or 6... that's pathetic.

We only escaped the record because they put in the scrubs! We had only one FT attempt, and that was by Reggie until the 4th when Moreland bricked two FT's to give us 3.

BTW, we're shooting 3's decently at times, but that will also dry up once teams start playing better defense on us... 20 game rule as you reminded me!

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