Re: D. Rose

[WTF]

I'm guessing but I think Prince and Jackson can help carry the team into the playoffs.  SVG can actually do with Prince what he was trying to do with Josh  and run the offense through him.  This adds another option to the offense and might prove effective in the long run if they make the playoffs.  

It could have been the Bulls were a little out of sync last night I'm sure what really happen but they won the game and Dinwiddie didn't crumble at crunch very impressed.  

The other thing is Butler should have been starting all along as I suggested at the start of the season.  IMO he was always the better option to give 30 minutes to.  Prince won't have an issue coming off the bench I just think Butler could never adjust to limited minutes.

Derrick Rose answers questions about commitment after missing practice and an awful performance Friday


There is growing concern in the house that MJ built. How so lemonpen?

This isn't even news worthy and this is why I hate the media so much because they make mole hills into mountains on the least relevant sh!t. I kinda of wish Rose would have responded ala Iverson "Practice, Practice we talking about Practice" It does sound like a lack of commitment Rose took a risk of flying in the same day of practice and as luck would have it a flight delay. Stuff happens. The media needs to take that same micro-scope they use to dissect athletes and stick it up their arse

[WTF]

Prince will get to go home soon enough or not but it won't be until the summer, I know he's anxious to get back into the fray of playoff contending basketball this season. I feel him though he can go to the Clippers now and make an impression and hopefully stick or he can find himself likely somewhere else depending on a team cap situation. Likely he'll take less money rather than going to a losers unless that loser pays him crazy money which I doubt.

As talented as the Clippers are I don't think I can ever see them winning a title out West, though they should be able to with the talent they have but its just something about them. Maybe their fortunes will turn for the better now that Sterling is gone but they seem snake bitten. Prince you might want to go else where if you're looking for a title like say Cleveland or Chicago.

[lemonpen]

I'm guessing but I think Prince and Jackson can help carry the team into the playoffs.  SVG can actually do with Prince what he was trying to do with Josh  and run the offense through him.  This adds another option to the offense and might prove effective in the long run if they make the playoffs.  

It could have been the Bulls were a little out of sync last night I'm sure what really happen but they won the game and Dinwiddie didn't crumble at crunch very impressed.  

The other thing is Butler should have been starting all along as I suggested at the start of the season.  IMO he was always the better option to give 30 minutes to.  Prince won't have an issue coming off the bench I just think Butler could never adjust to limited minutes.

Derrick Rose answers questions about commitment after missing practice and an awful performance Friday


There is growing concern in the house that MJ built.

[lemonpen]

Don't bring him here. He was a complaining old biddy before leaving and he will be worse now. Prince had his chance for additional success with a good team (Memphis) and discovered he was too far past his prime for it to work out.

Stan, see a bright side to this. Negotiate the remaining payment down to whatever was owed JJ & Gigi. Win-Win.

To the right Brendan Savage's only argument seems to be Prince offering some stabilizing force to our starting youth. I say play Butler, Tolliver, Martin and QM. Gain more knowledge about those in hand.

[Oracle]

And the NEW starting SF for the OKC Thunder is... drumroll ... Kyle Singler!!! Singler started and put up his usual numbers and they won!

Perkins gets waived and signs with Cleveland!

Bucks waive Sanders!

Knight & Dragic open as losers, but Knight did decent, Dragic stunk the place up!

Poor Prince, doomed to toil away here when the Clippers want him so badly!

DX, they got the story wrong, there's no conundrum about Jennings, the problem is what SVG is saying and the way he's saying it. Jennings is trying to rehab, both physically and mentally, and it can't help to see SVG throw his ass under the bus as he brown noses Jackson!

SVG basically said Jackson is the future and here are the keys, and oh yeah, who is that dude named Jennings that turned us around? No loyalty & pretty cold by most measures!

Lastly, I've never seen a turnover of players this big, and it's frightening!

[WTF]

I'm guessing but I think Prince and Jackson can help carry the team into the playoffs.  SVG can actually do with Prince what he was trying to do with Josh  and run the offense through him.  This adds another option to the offense and might prove effective in the long run if they make the playoffs.  

It could have been the Bulls were a little out of sync last night I'm sure what really happen but they won the game and Dinwiddie didn't crumble at crunch very impressed.  

The other thing is Butler should have been starting all along as I suggested at the start of the season.  IMO he was always the better option to give 30 minutes to.  Prince won't have an issue coming off the bench I just think Butler could never adjust to limited minutes.

[deusXango]

What the hell is this conundrum business all about? Does anyone remember how Jennings came to town after being signed to a FA contract (after we gave up on Knight and Middleton to sweeten the deal) when nobody else wanted him? Was he as enthused as Jackson and excited to be a Piston? Who's bigger, stronger, and more athletic? More importantly, who has the strongest mindset and is healthy? What's the conundrum? One is the PG going forward and one is trade bait. At this point, it's not about whether or not we go with Jennings or Jackson, but what Dinwiddie does to impress SVG; After all Jackson and Dinwiddie are Stan's men, while Jennings is Joe's signing. Just something to think about.

[deusXango]

Tonight the Pelicans are wiping the Heat out....the Thunder are walking over the Hornets...if this holds up tonight and we take care of business tomorrow, guess what?! Within the next two days we can monitor the Pistons rise to the playoffs, or not.

[Oracle]

My whole jest about Knight is that I don't see elite, extraordinaire, special about his game and I largely attributed it to sense I have about character and personality.

This is the REALLY confusing part!

Who said Knight was elite or special? Where do you get this from, and why is it that in all of the posts and the MAJOR point of what I've been saying is that, of course Knight isn't those things, but you don't have to be to WIN!!!

Crazy Man you started this conversation.  I made an assessment about Knight and you immediately opposed it.  I never said anyone said anything I simply offered my opinion on your post with the comparison of Dragic and Knight and as usual you re-butted it  20 post later I don't know what the hell we're debating.   You know you have that same issue you claim I have admitting I might be right

While I do remember what we're debating, I love it when you're right about something

I think the only difference is that once I'm convinced someone is right, I LOVE to admit it! I'm only interested in getting it as right as possible, I don't care who wins, just prove your case!

I like your fight, just wish you'd be less mean to players, and more ready to admit when you're either wrong or just misunderstood something that was said, but we're good with you either way!

[WTF]

My whole jest about Knight is that I don't see elite, extraordinaire, special about his game and I largely attributed it to sense I have about character and personality.

This is the REALLY confusing part!

Who said Knight was elite or special? Where do you get this from, and why is it that in all of the posts and the MAJOR point of what I've been saying is that, of course Knight isn't those things, but you don't have to be to WIN!!!

Crazy Man you started this conversation. I made an assessment about Knight and you immediately opposed it. I never said anyone said anything I simply offered my opinion on your post with the comparison of Dragic and Knight and as usual you re-butted it 20 post later I don't know what the hell we're debating. You know you have that same issue you claim I have admitting I might be right

[cool breeze]

Focus on TEAM FIRST BASKETBALL OR YOU WILL BE GONE! The fans in Phoenix will love Brandon Jennings. Maybe I will get up their to see him play in person.

[Oracle]

I do think that Datome will at least get a very good shot in Boston because they're so bad from 3, and really need someone to knock some down.

But I think JJ will be the one that does best there!

[Oracle]

As I've said, IMO, that the thing that's special about us is the 1/5 combination! I thought that once Jennings figured that out(it took getting rid of Josh to do it), that's when we took off!

This combination is so devastating because of the unique gifts of Drummond, and the better the guard you can pair him up with, the more special that combination becomes!

So I was giddy when I saw this,

There is observational learning and then there is experiential learning. One thing he learned about Andre Drummond through practicing with him: "Andre can go up and catch any lob, I figured out today. I thought I overthrew him. I think it might be impossible to do."


The Jackson-Drummond pick and roll figures to become the heart of Stan Van Gundy's offense, for the season's final 27 games and – Van Gundy hopes – for many seasons to come. Everything else can spin off of that – shooters spotting up around the perimeter, post-ups for Greg Monroe, slashes to the rim for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, you name it.

SVG sees what's special about this team, and it's clear that everything else revolves around that special relationship between a guard that can break down defenses, and a big that can sky for lobs!

[deusXango]

Even so, Augustin will likely thrive there, Singler too, since expectations for his play will be set a lot lower.

Can't wait. Hated to see Augustin go, but Singler, meh. In view of the fact that Don sees so much in Singler and I have a great deal of respect for Don, I'm hoping for a successful run with the Thunder for him. I'd feel a lot better if he were playing for "Pop" or Kerr though.

No one's talking about J.J. and Datome, but I've a sneaky suspicion that the change of scenery is going to benefit them both; two players, for whatever reason, never got a fair chance in Detroit, IMHO.

[Oracle]

On any team there can only be one Alpha Dog, that's just a fact of life!

You can have 2 or 3 big dogs, but only one can be the Alpha!

Interestingly the Spurs allowed that to shift over players, and appear to easily accept the new Alpha.

DWade was brilliant in almost immediately recognizing that fact of life and quickly relinquished that status to LeBron to make things work!

The Thunder, for whatever reason, have struggled with this concept. Westbrook couldn't allow KD to be the Alpha, and KD eventually settled for some Co-Alpha status internally with KD viewed externally as the Alpha.

That team needed a 3rd high powered player to win it all, but couldn't accommodate Harden into the equation.

Jackson isn't at Harden levels, but for whatever reason, they can't or won't let that third personality thrive in their culture. Without that 3rd player, they're likely to win, but it is increasingly difficult to win it all.

The current trends in the NBA sees either teams with 3 dominant players win, or teams with 4-5 strong players playing as a TEAM to win.

Wise, this is where I would opt for a pure PG in the case of the Thunder, because they try to brute force everything and not play enough team ball! Coupled with the fact that their culture needs a more passive/selfless option for the 3rd important player.

Even so, Augustin will likely thrive there, Singler too, since expectations for his play will be set a lot lower.

[Oracle]

There was a big difference between the way our Pistons looked when Dinwiddie led the team vs Lucas who always pushed the basketball. With Augustin, Jennings and Lucas our Pistons at times looked really good but much of the time against better teams, Detroit lost because of mega turnovers. It was refreshing watching Spencer's pace which seemed to fit the starters a lot more. Too many times in the past the offense hadn't even set up before some big mistake had been made. Spencer never a guy to panic positioned himself in the back court waiting for a big to set a screen. The players were ready to run the offense. In the 2nd half, Monroe did a lot of things we seldom see him do. The shooting guards and small forwards actually ran hard around screens and Spencer always delivered the ball just at the correct moment. Piston fans, we haven't see that stuff all season and I hope that Van Gundy recognized that perhaps at times the make up of this team might be more successful in the half court offense playing Dinwiddie's style. How many turnovers did Dinwiddie have in the 2nd half. I can't recall one. We are used to the point guards causing up to 10 a half at times. Forcing things to play fast is not such a smart thing. Pick and choose when to use up tempo unless Van Gundy signs a really athletic power forward. I was really worried about Moose and how he might be a liability if he does sign after watching him in the first half but the slower tempo somehow got Greg into a good zone. With Jackson used to fast teammates who play with the Thunder, will Van Gundy adjust the offense a big after Detroit took apart the Bulls last night? And perhaps our Pistons seemed to have a good rhythm one both ends had something to do with Spencer Dinwiddie's defense and his ability to stay in front of Rose and contesting his jump shot. I can only imagine how Rose would have destroyed the Pistons if either Jennings or Augustin had played last night. Lucas had his issues turning over the ball and getting beat on defense. Pope also played a horrible game on the defensive end leaving his man who had the hot hand and turning his back to the Bulls number one option several times had me wondering if Pope had lost his mind. But KCP played a better 2nd half especially a good 4th quarter so that is important to mention as well.

Hats off to Butler for playing his butt off for the Pistons last night. He and Prince will make a good combo for the rest of the season.

Pace is so important, just like spacing, and you're 100% correct that we should pick and choose when to use the up tempo, and I wouldn't put any other conditions on that! If we have an old team, then up tempo all the time may be just what the doctor ordered, but more practice setting things up in the half court is what the playoffs is all about!

Dinwiddie really surprised me with his patience, something that young players generally struggle with. He let the game come to him and didn't force or get flustered when pressured.

His size did give Rose some problems, but if Rose has been more of himself, his size wouldn't have been enough to hold him below double digits.

I'm really excited to get Jackson, but I would rather see Dinwiddie get more minutes than Lucas if he can deliver performances like this. Lucas can still get good minutes, just don't shut Dinwiddie out.

BTW, did it sound strange to anybody else that SVG wanted to play Jackson last night without any practice time with his new team? My first reaction was that it would be unfair to Jackson, and risk getting off on the wrong foot early. Am I over thinking that?

[cool breeze]

There was a big difference between the way our Pistons looked when Dinwiddie led the team vs Lucas who always pushed the basketball. With Augustin, Jennings and Lucas our Pistons at times looked really good but much of the time against better teams, Detroit lost because of mega turnovers. It was refreshing watching Spencer's pace which seemed to fit the starters a lot more. Too many times in the past the offense hadn't even set up before some big mistake had been made. Spencer never a guy to panic positioned himself in the back court waiting for a big to set a screen. The players were ready to run the offense. In the 2nd half, Monroe did a lot of things we seldom see him do. The shooting guards and small forwards actually ran hard around screens and Spencer always delivered the ball just at the correct moment. Piston fans, we haven't see that stuff all season and I hope that Van Gundy recognized that perhaps at times the make up of this team might be more successful in the half court offense playing Dinwiddie's style. How many turnovers did Dinwiddie have in the 2nd half. I can't recall one. We are used to the point guards causing up to 10 a half at times. Forcing things to play fast is not such a smart thing. Pick and choose when to use up tempo unless Van Gundy signs a really athletic power forward. I was really worried about Moose and how he might be a liability if he does sign after watching him in the first half but the slower tempo somehow got Greg into a good zone. With Jackson used to fast teammates who play with the Thunder, will Van Gundy adjust the offense a big after Detroit took apart the Bulls last night? And perhaps our Pistons seemed to have a good rhythm one both ends had something to do with Spencer Dinwiddie's defense and his ability to stay in front of Rose and contesting his jump shot. I can only imagine how Rose would have destroyed the Pistons if either Jennings or Augustin had played last night. Lucas had his issues turning over the ball and getting beat on defense. Pope also played a horrible game on the defensive end leaving his man who had the hot hand and turning his back to the Bulls number one option several times had me wondering if Pope had lost his mind. But KCP played a better 2nd half especially a good 4th quarter so that is important to mention as well.

Hats off to Butler for playing his butt off for the Pistons last night. He and Prince will make a good combo for the rest of the season.

[deusXango]

Gentlemen, all I know is both Brandon's, Knight and Jennings, have made guest appearances on "Shaqtin' A Fool" and Reggie Jackson hasn't yet. I don't see any of today's elite PG's starring on a program dedicated to making an ass out of themselves in the heat of battle. No Rondo, no Paul, no Parker, none of the elite....however Rondo and Parker have won championships. Hmmmmm.

[deusXango]

An unexpected win over the mighty Bulls; All starters with double figure scoring.

PG:  Dinwiddie gets his first start and misses a double/double by 1 assist.
SF: Butler gets the start and scores 20 points...did more than run to the open spot.

That's today's report on our weakest positions, or should I say, positions of concern.

I knew that was coming.   Would probably have been disappointed if it had not.  

Lemon, there're only 27 more reports coming and I'm willing to bet none of them will reflect what we got from a certain position of concern....the majority of them will be a lot better, no matter who's playing that position.

[Oracle]

IMO, we do have something special if we develop it. It's Drummond and a dangerous guard that can exploit the Pick and Roll with him.

It's an almost unstoppable combination if run right, sort of like Stockton to Malone.

Everybody knew it was coming and nobody could stop it!

[Oracle]

My whole jest about Knight is that I don't see elite, extraordinaire, special about his game and I largely attributed it to sense I have about character and personality.

This is the REALLY confusing part!

Who said Knight was elite or special? Where do you get this from, and why is it that in all of the posts and the MAJOR point of what I've been saying is that, of course Knight isn't those things, but you don't have to be to WIN!!!

[WTF]

You're coming in on the tail end of this conversation, and I get some of your point, but you're missing the context.

Wise believes two things.

1. We need a pure PG to win, and
2. He needs to be elite

My point is that you don't need either, you just need a good player who's a winner, and the winners of the finals pretty much confirms that!

Oracle I really wasn't suggesting that's what we need, it more of what I want. Please know that I would take a Kobe. Lebron, Shaq, Duncan, Parker all day long. But we were talking specifically about the PG position in reference to Knight.

Our team has noting elite or anything really special about it as last week ASG would indicate, Zeke and Chauncey are exceptions to the norm but its been our norm as Pistons fans to see our championship team being lead by our 2 Elite PG's. As Pistons fans how could we not want to see that again is all I'm saying.

[WTF]

Man you guys have low standards for elite

First, you're defined by your competition as much as by how good you are, and that's true in all sports!

You guys have a lot of good, but not elite guards on that list, and I thought we were talking about PG going in to the BIG dance, and proving their status.

Which also means that a status needs to be verified, or it's debatable.

Finally, if you do get to the big dance, you don't have to win the series, but you should at least beat your counterpart and be the best player in a losing cause.

I'm still shaking my head over Spud Webb, and the Glove not  there, and Kidd going into the finals was not considered elite anymore! Okay Spud's a bit of a stretch and I'm shocked over looked The Glove as well.

But remember, we're talking about a PG going into the finals, and a lot of these guys never made it! No we were talking about Knight not becoming Elite but it morphed into this somehow

I think what both lemon and myself are saying is that you can be Elite and not make it to the big dance. I think winning a title only solidifies that Elite-ness of a player.

My whole jest about Knight is that I don't see elite, extraordinaire, special about his game and I largely attributed it to sense I have about character and personality. Maybe if I explain it like this Oracle you understand what I'm talking about. Have you every looked at someone and had a suspiciousness about that person but could never really put a finger on it regardless to the contrary of what being displayed. Well my gut tells me that I'm right about what I suspect. It was something I picked up on when we drafted him, I picked up on it when he was at Kentucky as a freshmen. His attitude when we drafted him only solidified my suspicions of this flawed character that I think will hold him back. There a saying a hard head make for a sore ass. I believe this kid will have to hit rock bottom (reality check) before he gets its truly right. I don't hate this kid I just see what I see and I admit I could be wrong in the end, but I also could be right.

[Oracle]

You're coming in on the tail end of this conversation, and I get some of your point, but you're missing the context.

Wise believes two things.

1. We need a pure PG to win, and
2. He needs to be elite

My point is that you don't need either, you just need a good player who's a winner, and the winners of the finals pretty much confirms that!

[Oracle]

1999[e] San Antonio Spursdagger 4–1 New York Knicks [77]
2000 Los Angeles Lakersdagger 4–2 Indiana Pacers [78]
2001 Los Angeles Lakers 4–1 Philadelphia 76ers [79]
2002 Los Angeles Lakers 4–0 New Jersey Nets [80]
2003 San Antonio Spursdagger 4–2 New Jersey Nets [81]
2004 Los Angeles Lakers 1–4 Detroit Pistons [82]
2005 San Antonio Spurs 4–3 Detroit Pistons [83]
2006 Dallas Mavericks 2–4 Miami Heat [84]
2007 San Antonio Spurs 4–0 Cleveland Cavaliers [85]
2008 Los Angeles Lakers 2–4 Boston Celticsdagger [86]
2009 Los Angeles Lakers 4–1 Orlando Magic [87]
2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4–3 Boston Celtics [88]
2011 Dallas Mavericks 4–2 Miami Heat [89]
2012[f] Oklahoma City Thunder 1–4 Miami Heat [92]
2013 San Antonio Spurs 3–4 Miami Heat [93]
2014 San Antonio Spurs 4–1 Miami Heat [94]

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