Really They Were Better Without Josh

[Oracle]

Seriously, have you watched any of the games?

No Horford, and this was a competitive team playing very good basketball!

So yeah, taking account of injuries, IMO, it's a better team, certainly smarter.

Face it, Josh is as dumb as a bag of nails! He needs what we can't give him... vets to keep him in line!

We've see what happens when you depend on Josh to be the adult in the room... BOOM  

[WTF]

2013-14 Atlanta 38 - 44 .463 4th Southeast Division 3 - 4 .429 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
2012-13 Atlanta 44 - 38 .537 2nd Southeast Division 2 - 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
2011-12 * Atlanta 40 - 26 .606 2nd Southeast Division 2 - 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
2010-11 Atlanta 44 - 38 .537 3rd Southeast Division 6 - 6 .500 Lost East Conf Semis
2009-10 Atlanta 53 - 29 .646 2nd Southeast Division 4 - 7 .364 Lost East Conf Semis
2008-09 Atlanta 47 - 35 .573 2nd Southeast Division 4 - 7 .364 Lost East Conf Semis
2007-08 Atlanta 37 - 45 .451 3rd Southeast Division 3 - 4 .429 Lost East Conf 1st Rd

Really 6 season with Josh and say's they were better and that 2012 season was without Joe Johnson.

[Oracle]

What the F.U.C.K. Everybody in the NBA think Detroit is the stomping ground to give away young players and make everybody else better. F.U.C.K. THAT!!


Atlanta says they going after Monroe. And any fool who thinks Detroit should allow Washington or Atlanta to just come along, build A championship team off our backs and take Monroe because we have A tweener with no position in Josh Smith is NUTS!!

Let's get A General Manager in who knows what the F.U.C.K is going on and get this Pistons train back on the tracks!

We being talked about like we the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. Oakland A's.

Look at this big 3. Washington: Wall, Beal, Monroe. New Orleans: Monroe, A.Davis, J.Holiday Atlanta:J.Teague, Monroe, Al Hartford.

Look at all those big 3. Take away G.Monroe and plug in J.Smith. It don't look as scary now does it?

Keep A almost 30 year old, no position, tweener over A 23 year old, skill, good character, high IQ, real quality, NBA big man? Easy choice for anybody with A NBA brain.

Get this new GM in here and let's get this show on the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. ROAD!!!     

No GM is going to move Monroe for peanuts!

I'd prefer to keep him and see how he fits in with Drummond if we can get a real PG on this team!

However, if these teams want him, it's going to take a sign & trade with real value or the Pistons should simply match any offer and call it a day!

Trust me, Atlanta didn't get that good by accident, they got rid of Josh Smith and immediately got smarter and more efficient!

Josh wasn't near the problem that Jennings was, but while I can see Jennings in a guard rotation that included a better starting PG, I don't think Josh is ready to come off the bench! Then again Jennings may not be ready to be a 6th man, but who cares!

A great GM could get rid of both Jennings & Josh, but it's likely that we can only get rid of one of them, and Josh is my choice... Why?

Our frontcourt will NEVER grow up properly with Josh around! They need a veteran big coming off the bench with real leadership qualities to school them. Josh isn't that dude, he's still trying to get his s.h.i.t together!

Off Topic: Shout out to Floyd Mayweather, Jr! Tough and deserved win to unify the belts!!!

[Oracle]

OUR organization is currently so f@cked-up that the only thing that WE are sure of is that Loyer is still OUR Head Coach.

Damn, Gores need to get this sh!t moving: Hire a GM, hire a real head coach, and zero in on the draft, possible trades, and free agency.

It seems like OUR Pistons are not even in the League, anymore.

Waiting for the "Donald"... Sterling that is, to break free of the Clippers so that he can become our new GM   

[Phil-Good]

What the F.U.C.K. Everybody in the NBA think Detroit is the stomping ground to give away young players and make everybody else better. F.U.C.K. THAT!!


Atlanta says they going after Monroe. And any fool who thinks Detroit should allow Washington or Atlanta to just come along, build A championship team off our backs and take Monroe because we have A tweener with no position in Josh Smith is NUTS!!

Let's get A General Manager in who knows what the F.U.C.K is going on and get this Pistons train back on the tracks!

We being talked about like we the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. Oakland A's.

Look at this big 3. Washington: Wall, Beal, Monroe. New Orleans: Monroe, A.Davis, J.Holiday Atlanta:J.Teague, Monroe, Al Hartford.

Look at all those big 3. Take away G.Monroe and plug in J.Smith. It don't look as scary now does it?

Keep A almost 30 year old, no position, tweener over A 23 year old, skill, good character, high IQ, real quality, NBA big man? Easy choice for anybody with A NBA brain.

Get this new GM in here and let's get this show on the F.U.C.K.I.N.G. ROAD!!!     

[Sebastian]

OUR organization is currently so f@cked-up that the only thing that WE are sure of is that Loyer is still OUR Head Coach.

Damn, Gores need to get this sh!t moving: Hire a GM, hire a real head coach, and zero in on the draft, possible trades, and free agency.

It seems like OUR Pistons are not even in the League, anymore.

[deusXango]

Brandon Jennings. Unwillingness to identify the top two out of the Big 3 and start those two. Other than that brother Wise, I agree, opportunities await us.

[WTF]

What do they have that the Pistons are missing? When I look at some of these teams still playing and some that have been eliminated there seem to be stuff that can be done over the summer.

  Opportunities awaits us

[Oracle]

You're a GREAT player, but....

Please lose the freaky reddish beard you're growing!!!

Seriously, James Harden has cornered the market on freaky beards in the NBA!!!

[Oracle]

Wow, the Clipper/Warrior game is exciting, but...

1. Little to no defense being played, although Jordan is putting on a one man defensive show!
2. Chris Paul is a dumb ass! He made so many stupid plays, even down the stretch putting his team in a position to lose!
3, Pedigree matters!!! Green, learned from playing with the green, State, and he has been the star... in a losing effort!

But those things conspire to make an edge of your seat exciting game!

[WTF]

There are a sh!t load of possibilities this summer in in free agency alone to put together competitive for next season without breaking the house if the focus is solely chemistry and not this hopeful bullsh!t that's been going on since 2004.  

1. Lance Stephenson wants out of Indy and we can afford him, especially with Charlie and Rodney falling off the books and an additional 5 million in cap space.  Lance is the SG many was thinking KCP would be.  

2. Luol Deng could be had over the summer as well, Deng is the SF we need plain and simple and should be an affordable pick up as well.  

3. Our PG area just been so sh!tty just getting a competent PG would be an upgrade, would I rather have Harris running our PG  than Jennings I most certainly would.  So we don't have to go for the big splash in trade or free agency and with a decent vet like Devin Harris in place then you can go ahead and draft the best PG this summer and give him time to develop.  

4, Josh simply needs to stay and be put in the PF position period.  It's easy to find flaws in any players game especially on this roster.    Josh is simply a better defender, more athletic and overall talented than Monroe at the PF position. I won't debate what Monroe might be at the PF next season but he likely won't be better at the position than Josh.

Also we all know Josh could play better than he has this past season, but has it occur to anyone that perhaps with his father being ill this season it might have played a little part to the distraction he's had this season just a little.  Just saying here this guy was use to his dad sitting court side his entire career and bad enough coming here that wasn't going to be the case but then tack on his father illness and not being able to see his son at all.

[deusXango]

Looking at the playoffs this year (easily the most competitive 1st round series across the board in memory) I see so many players we could or should have easily had, if only Joe Dumars was worth a good goddamn! Year after year, and trade deadline after trade deadline, our HOF GM sat on his over-sized ass, because he put together the 2004 championship team...whoop-dee-damn-do. For years he was determined to make Rodney Stuckey the star PG of the Pistons, all while passing on Kemba Walker, Grievas Vasquez, and other superior PG's. He could have drafted Chandler Parsons, Paul George, or any number of SF's that are more productive than Tayshaun Prince is now. WTF did he give up on Emir Johnson for?

Trades? We could have traded for James Harden when OKC wanted to get out of paying him, but a lot of Joe supporters poo-pooed that trade with everything from his bad grill work to the imaginary notion that his game was dependent on Durant and Westbrook. Before this season started, there was a 50/50 chance we could have successfully traded Monroe & Stuckey for LaMarcus Aldridge, but we had been hypnotized into thinking Stuckey was invaluable to this franchise (he's going to blow up any minute) and Monroe was to be traded for a broken Rondo.

Free agent acquisitions? We couldn't resign Calderon, but we could resign Bynum and bring Billups "back." We turned our backs on Monta Ellis, but gave up two promising, young players, with higher ceilings, for Brandon Jennings, who the eye test and statistics prove he can't hold a candle to Ellis's game. Ellis wanted out of Milwaukee, but the Bucks wanted Jennings out of Milwaukee...Dallas signed both Calderon and Ellis, and Ellis came at the same price as Jennings, only without giving up on any valuable resources.

Yeah, I'm enjoying the playoffs, but I can't help but see all the possible Pistons scattered throughout and dream of what could've/should've been, if only we didn't have such a brain dead GM out front calling the shots. The sad part? Some of us asked for a lot of these missteps. A lot of the same some ones who blame ownership (first Karen Davidson and now Tom Gores) for the ineptitude of our past GM.

[cool breeze]

Wow, what a game!!!

Houston goes up by 2 with 0.9 seconds, then Lillard hits a deep 3 and wins it... Exciting!!!

Houston lost, but Howard has grown up, he was a MAN down the stretch! My respect for him was GONE, but now it's back big time!

He put his team on his back and was destroying the Portland bigs! Howard couldn't be stopped, and he made a lot of big FT's!

Don, we don't have a single player on the Pistons that's good enough to play with these guys with the possible exceptions of Drummond as a backup center, and Singler as a 3rd or 4th SF option that never sees the floor!

Wow! Lillard hits that amazing 3 point shot with .9 seconds on the clock to win the game. Howard played perhaps his best game of his career and loses. Howard also got away with around 18 fouls. He pushed 2 Porland players out of the paint which allowed Houston to get that rebound and put back to go ahead. Howard now has the status of Shaq the player who could knock other big men off the block to get his dunk. It was clear that the NBA front office wanted a game 7. But too bad because the Blazers are moving on. Great hard fought basketball game. And Oracle our Piston players are not worthy of carrying the jock straps any of the players who played in that game. We have the losers thanks to Joe Dumars and Mr. Gores.

[WTF]

Luol Deng, Devin Harris, Lance Stephenson I think if we could just land these three in Free Agency to add to the current **** we might be able to win 50 games next season.

Still need to trade Moose ass......

[WTF]

"I wish I had just paid her off," Sterling told DuJour magazine, a Los Angeles lifestyle publication, speaking of V. Stiviano, the girlfriend to whom Sterling made the recorded comments.

Not a "I'm sorry"   Man I'm really feel bad for prostate cancer catching the Donald Sterling. Cancer I hope there's a cure for the Donald Sterling.

[WTF]

Smith sure doesn't look like a player who really wants to be great. He is capable of being great but doesn't want to put in the work and isn't interested in the added pressure involved with expectations people will have before each game. - Don

Man you crack me up with your Josh bashing.   

For real Sheed and Prince were two of the biggest underachieving players in the history of this team and you love them, but this Josh guy he just does everything wrong.

Then Sour Pee Boy riles him for having the same attributes athletically, physically, and having great defensive ability as a former player that for a minute I thought he was describing Worm.

I'll give you this much Don you do take the time to rile on other players, but Pee Boy with his new found love fest for Moose Meat is killing me who is by far the most underachieving player on the team. Hey Piss Boy this sounds like Stuckey all over again when you were in love with Stuckey.   

You know what Josh doesn't have that Worm, Sheed and Prince had? Hmmmmmm let me see, I'll say Zeke and Chauncey for 800 Alex. How about just overall better smart players and competent coaches.

[Oracle]

Wow, what a game!!!

Houston goes up by 2 with 0.9 seconds, then Lillard hits a deep 3 and wins it... Exciting!!!

Houston lost, but Howard has grown up, he was a MAN down the stretch! My respect for him was GONE, but now it's back big time!

He put his team on his back and was destroying the Portland bigs! Howard couldn't be stopped, and he made a lot of big FT's!

Don, we don't have a single player on the Pistons that's good enough to play with these guys with the possible exceptions of Drummond as a backup center, and Singler as a 3rd or 4th SF option that never sees the floor!

[cool breeze]

This question will bring any fan to the reality that we have a horrible team full of players who are far behind the standard NBA playoff players. 

1. Josh Smith - He has always been a liability in the 4th quarter of games because he is a poor free throw shooter. And his judgement is impaired at times and that is why his teammates in Atlanta didn't want to pass him the ball in the 4th quarter. But Smith has the most potential to be a complete player but he is getting older now so it is not likely that he can ever become a team leader that other players can look up to. Isiah Thomas mentioned one important ingredient necessary that really good players have this week on NBA TV before a playoff game. The panel was talking about Paul George and how the Pacers would need for him to step up in that game. One of the other panel members stated that George will have a lot of pressure on him and you have to wonder how he will respond. Zeke smiled and said this is his moment and George should really be excited and looking forward to the challenge. You have to want it before greatness can happen. Smith sure doesn't look like a player who really wants to be great. He is capable of being great but doesn't want to put in the work and isn't interested in the added pressure involved with expectations people will have before each game. So why not trade him and go fishing for another guy who might love the spotlight and the pressure?

2. Drummond and Monroe cannot play in the 4th quarter of any playoff game yet because they are both horrible defenders and they are not fundamentally sound on the offensive end. And both of those players are horrible free throw shooters. Drummond is more athletic and seems to be working harder than Monroe so he has perhaps more potential than Monroe to become a 4th quarter player in playoff situations. Right now Monroe is just not quick enough to get back on defense and keep the real playoff big men out of the low block. In time, Monroe might become a good two way player but he will really need to work at it a lot more than he has done so far. 

Jennings and Will Bynum cannot play in the 4th quarter because they are too impulsive on offense and are only thinking about their own shot while ignoring their teammates most of the time. Both are among the worst defenders at any position in the NBA. I wouldn't trust either player at the free throw line to determine a playoff game either. 

KCP and Singler might have the greatest chance to one day contribute in a playoff game. Singler has only been in the league for two seasons and has played two positions and would look a lot better if he were on a good team right now. He moves without the ball, sets screens, positions himself well for rebounds, can drive the ball, has developed a pull up jump shot in the lane and usually plays the best offensive player on opposing teams. He is going to get a lot better this coming season. He knows the tendencies of players in the league he has gone up against and that is extremely important information for a guy like Singler. Singler is the player other teams are interested in adding to their teams. KCP was too young and inexperienced last season. He should have stayed another year in college. His last game against the Thunder was really good. He played some really good defense and shot the ball well. If he adds some weight and strength this summer and works on his shooting more, KCP could be greatly improved going into training camp. 

Joe Dumars took the scraps when trading for Jennings as he usually has does. Ellis was far superior to Jennings when he was with the Bucks. Giving away Knight and Middleton set this team back for perhaps several years. It started with the owner who made a stupid demand that the Pistons make the playoffs this season. So Joe Dumars responded by making that dumb trade for Jennings when no trade was even necessary. Nobody wanted to pay Jennings more than 3 million a year. He is in Bynum's class right now being that he isn't interested in becoming a better defender  or interested in getting his teammates more involved in the offense. A player like that should count themselves lucky to get a contract for 3 Mil. If Dumars had not had the pressure on him would he have kept Knight and Middleton? The answer is easy to figure out. Dumars wanted to be politically correct instead of doing the right thing once the owner made impossible demands. He wanted to keep his job instead of saying screw you Mr. Gores it would be dumb to trade Knight and Middleton. The chemistry was starting to build with Knight and his other young teammates. Knight and Middleton are both really athletic basketball players. That is what Joe should have known. This current team has few really good athletes and both can defend well. The more real athletes a team has the better the team will be given time to get the necessary experience. Both Dumars and Gores are guilty of being too fast on the trigger unwilling to let things play out to see what you have before trying something new that could never possibly work. Any person who applies for the GM job will need to review what has happened and ask important questions in the interview with Mr. Gores. The owners have not been smart basketball owners so far. Maybe they have learned from this experience. But we have to face the facts that this Piston franchise has taken 5 steps back. We need a lot of players who are more athletic than the current group. That is for starters. Then we need to have new players who like the pressure and love competition. Our guys looked like they could care less if they lost by 30 points at times this past season. I would love it if Zeke would be the head coach next year. He knows the game and will speak out about improving the quality of the roster. And I think he has the ability to help make younger players better. He could give the team a better mental edge in coming years. I really like his take on the playoff games. If you get a chance watch him on NBA TV.

[deusXango]

Thanks Wise, for the timely intervention with a Joe Dumars acolyte playing GM...at least try to be serious and thoughtful with your suggestions, instead of pulling sh!t out of a warped imagination and presenting it on this hollowed forum. I'm glad you took the young man to task for his misbehavior, and I certainly hope he's learned his lesson.

The one good thing that came out of those ramblings was the best thing Monroe has going for him is David Faulk; let's use that to our benefit when it comes to the bargaining table, in sign and trade talks. Let Faulk drive up his trade value, because he's done in Detroit.

[WTF]

Pboy to date you haven't been right about nothing.  You have been the biggest cheerleader and Joe D butt sniffer I ever seen so I guess that counts for a little something.   

I'm saying this because you have agreed with every dumb ass move and decision Joe has ever made, and I was kind of hoping that when Joe got canned you would get fired from the forum but your ass is still here DAMN!   

Who cares what the Agent and Pistons are saying dum dum it's all part of the game to get the most money for his client and for the Pistons to create the best sign and trade scenario for the team.  Stop thinking like your dumb ass idol   who's no longer here....Thank Goodness.

I think you still have a Joe D turd stuck in your nose  

[Phil-Good]

David Fauld, G.Monroe's agent is on RECORD saying that he has been told, "DETROIT WILL MATCH ANY OFFER G.MONROE GETS."

But I want to play fantasy GM TOO!! So...How about G.Monroe in A 12 team sign and trade? Detroit trades Monroe to Washington for J.Wall, B.Beal and A 20000234224454544 first round pick. Top 1998998398393 protected?

Then Detroit takes Beal, three, 203938948440-AS,first round picks in A package to Miami for Lebron James.

Well the Pistons need shooting right? So you take that 21212324e03303-3r=-3= pick, top 3 protected pick and send it Golden State in the middle of game 7 for Klay Thompson, D.Green. and S.Curry. So that way Beal can help out in that game 7 in A few days.

See it all works out. Now as for the other 9 in this trade. The Pistons should call them back and say thanks. We got what we need. So Go F.U.C.K yourself!

And then offer A 23243435343422142123141112424343jghldfld first round pick top 2 protected to keep everybody happy.     

[deusXango]

Greg Monroe is a center, period! Andre Drummond is the far better center on the Pistons (by all measurable points made by fans). We need a SF and perimeter shooting, but more than anything else, we need a PG! We got to stop bullsh!tting ourselves, Jennings ain't the answer.

What makes Drummond a better center than Monroe? He's younger, a superior rebounder, and what's the difference in 13.5 pts. a game, and 15.9 coming from your starting center? The potential to develop into an interior defender and shot-blocker favors Drummond. There's a groundswell of mind readers that have shared with us the fact that Monroe wouldn't be agreeable to coming off the bench...sign & trade seems to be the most viable option.

Wise has stated the most logical course of action for a SF...go hard after Deng! It makes more sense to pay Deng than Monroe, in spite of the age difference, and move Josh to PF. The veteran leadership would be welcomed in our locker room and on the floor.

Allowing Stuckey and Villanueva to walk gives us the money to sign Deng and two additional (high percentage) perimeter shooters in the draft. I'm not going to knock players because of speed, but I'm looking for team players with high B-ball I.Q.'s who can shoot...Stauskas and McDermott. I would hope that whoever our next GM turns out to be will be more pro-active than the staid, "sit on his ass and do nothing" Joe Dumars...make whoever we do the sign & trade, for Monroe, with places us in the mid-first round...if they're not there, get us there! #8 Stauskas, mid-first round McDermott.

Having to crawl before we walk, because of the awkward position we've been placed in over years of poor decision making, I'd be willing to see what Payton Siva can bring to the table in his 2nd year...a decision has to made to be done with Jennings and not continue to think a miracle is going to happen for this young man; he is who he will always be! His shooting mechanics are off because he's too small and weak to be taking the shot he favors, and it shows up in the low percentage he hits 3's for. He has no interest in tailoring his game for the teams best interest...he's got to be the star and "hero." His poor defense doesn't make it worth putting up with his poor offensive performances...he ain't all that. If I want to see flashy ball, I'll go to my local recreation center; there's some of the flashiest ball you can imagine being played there, by guys ill-equipped for the pro game. I want to see pro ball played at the Palace by pro players and it takes more than a paycheck to make a pro.

[WTF]

Wise, I'm not objecting to keeping either Josh or Moose, I don't have either your bias or Don's bias, I just want us to do not only what's possible, but what makes sense.

If that means S&T of Moose, so be it! If we can get something for Josh... great!

However, I will concede that moving Moose is likely the most obvious option for  lot of reasons!

Yeah that's all I kind of want as well. I just want the team to get it right for a change and put all these players in the best positions to excel. I can't take another season of players being out of position or being used improperly and I kind of feel that way about all the players.

Singlers not a SG, Josh not a SF, Monroe not a PF, KCP is not a shooter, Bynum is not PG, and if they keep Stuckey neither is he a PG. I'm tired of tweeners and I'm tire of us drafting players and not properly developing them, I'm tire of us drafting the wrong players and just want this team to do what makes sense and to stop trying to force things, I'm tire of them hiring the wrong coaches to only fire them later.

How this team is built and works should be the coaches vision and whomever our new GM might be it his job to get those pieces for the coach. We have to get the chemistry right from top to bottom (players, coaches, GM) all on the same page that's all I want.

I want a coach that will have tenure like Sloan and Pop in their coaching careers.

[Oracle]

Wise, I'm not objecting to keeping either Josh or Moose, I don't have either your bias or Don's bias, I just want us to do not only what's possible, but what makes sense.

If that means S&T of Moose, so be it! If we can get something for Josh... great!

However, I will concede that moving Moose is likely the most obvious option for  lot of reasons!

[WTF]

@Wise - It's between those two because we need a center(Dre) and  backup center(Monroe) that is a change of pace from the starter.

@Stones - Josh at PF is no longer a viable option! You may have missed my post, but the gist of it is this. Have you looked at Josh lately? He's very thin compared to what he used to be, so it's not just tall PF that will bother him, but heavy PF's as well! For better or worse, Josh is a SF now, without SF skills!

However, you both make a lot of sense about a sign & trade for Moose! I know how we should use him, but he's not going to like it, so we likely just need to part ways with us getting the best deal possible!

In that case, Josh at PF will be where we are! Not a disaster, just not the best option, IMO! Where he may struggle on defense, the opposite is true on offense! Josh will nightly have a large speed advantage, and being closer to the rim, his production will increase.

Sterling: Are comments made in private with the assumption that it's private out of bounds? According to our behavior on other things, the answer is clearly no!

We regularly jail people that agree with Bin Laden for the crime of hating Americans, but racist hate Americans and we think that they have the right to do so, so why the double standard!

America regularly cheats Asians, Mexicans(Latinos), and African Americans on a daily basis, and it's looked on as "Normal"! 90% of decent paying jobs require no or limited skills, basically that you're breathing, and almost all of them go to those in the majority population.

It's all about competition! The majority fears competition, and votes for people that will guarantee that they don't have to compete with minorities! Democrats keep saying that they're voting against their own interest, but nobody does that. It's just that the Dems don't see where their interests lie!

It's in their interest to not have to compete, because if you compete, you might lose, and they can't deal with that!

But by process of elimination its more about Andre and Moose because we all know Monroe is not going take coming off the bench and neither would we be foolish enough to pay him max dollars to do so.  Then I'm not sure at this point if you would want to move Andre to the bench.  I really do like my scenario of starting both Boozer and Monroe and having Josh and Andre to back them up.  Could be possible if we could bounce Jennings out of here and convince Josh and Andre ti assume backup roles.

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