An Empty Palace

[deusXango]

Seb, a winning team changes that, fans love the guys that they have a lot more if they win!

BTW, not a Piston on this list...

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Oracle, it seems that the practiced madness of Joe Dumars continues (given the fact that the basketball world knows how he feels about the slugs we still have on our roster), and Tom Gores is getting just what his game calls for. How does the Seattle Pistons sound? No? What do you think about the Las Vegas Pistons...does that have a better ring to it? The Palace of Auburn Hills is destined to become the entertainment capital of the mid-west, sans a basketball team. Passionate dedication of an owner is where team success begins.

[lemonpen]

LF has to sell the company line and still try to make this sh!t work.

Don't we all.

[deusXango]

The Pistons are not to be major players by the trade deadline, so says Vince Ellis, now Brendan Savage, over on MLive, is setting the stage for not being major players in this summers FA signings, by marking Detroit as not being a desirable destination for NBA free agents. First there won't be any top tier players on the FA market this summer...it's also been suggested that Calderon's gonna walk as soon as the season is over (who can blame him if he does?), and Josh Smith will be long gone by then. What's Joe been hoarding this money for?
This is why I don't appreciate our local sports writers; they leave you with that feeling of doom and gloom when talking about the Pistons...you don't get that sh!t when it comes to any of our other sports teams. Professional basketball players play all over the country, and with multi-millions of dollars, they can live any place on the planet they choose when not playing. Commercial value? Weather? Lame ass excuses given for the destruction of fan mindsets to expect better. If I didn't know better I'd think they were hired by the devil himself.

[Oracle]

You take this EXACT same team and you give it to Carlisle or Larry Brown, and it's a REAL battle for the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs. - Oracle

I have to disagree with this because the team that both Carlisle and Brown coached here previously where more fundamentally sound and seasoned, Brown likely would have had the same issue he encountered in taking the New York job. And I honestly don't think Carlisle would fair any better with this current group of players we have on the roster.

Let's not sell those players we had under Carlisle and Brown short, in saying that the talent level was average, neither coach was dealing with young players like these. This is not a high BB IQ bunch we have here and every coach need those type of players to win and so did Phil Jackson.

Easy for Phil to sit back and say that, I mean really how much motivating he had to do with MJ and Kobe. I don't see a Kobe and MJ on this roster. I agree that both Rick and LB had to push the players they had and sell them on a concept but I also don't see a Rip. Chauncey, Tay, Sheed and Big Ben on this roster either. It's not just coaching.

Wise, you're doing it again, you're taking such a short view that you can't see anything.

Carlisle's team wasn't as sound as your hindsight remembers, if it was, tell me why RIP rarely saw the 4th quarter under Carlisle?

With LB, what he did for the Clippers was amazing! You're looking at all of this like you do with players. You look at the finished product, and have no idea about how and what it took to get there.

Sausage making is hard, but those who eat them don't see how it got in their mouth!

[Sebastian]

Seb, a winning team changes that, fans love the guys that they have a lot more if they win!

BTW, not a Piston on this list...

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Oracle, it seems that the practiced madness of Joe Dumars continues (given the fact that the basketball world knows how he feels about the slugs we still have on our roster), and Tom Gores is getting just what his game calls for. How does the Seattle Pistons sound? No? What do you think about the Las Vegas Pistons...does that have a better ring to it? The Palace of Auburn Hills is destined to become the entertainment capital of the mid-west, sans a basketball team. Passionate dedication of an owner is where team success begins.

DX, if Sacramento is able to hang onto the Kings OUR Pistons may even become the Seattle Supersonics.

[Oracle]

BTW, the way you compare is so far off that it informs you conclusions.

You're comparing the wrong thing!

You don't compare the talent, you focus on what the coach did with that talent!

Under Carlisle, he FORGED that team into a contender and developed his 2 units. He discovered that RIP was a turnover machine and limited his 4th quarter PT. It all looks so simple to you now, but it wasn't.

If you gave that team to Frank, he doesn't play as much of the roster, he can't figure out who plays well together, he can't get the situational roles right, but he does X/O's really well.

Frank will make them play defense and do the right thing, but not all of them. That's a really good thing, but that's the assistant coaches job! That's what assistants are for... that's what Frank is!

[WTF]

BTW, the way you compare is so far off that it informs you conclusions.

You're comparing the wrong thing!

You don't compare the talent, you focus on what the coach did with that talent!

Under Carlisle, he FORGED that team into a contender and developed his 2 units. He discovered that RIP was a turnover machine and limited his 4th quarter PT. It all looks so simple to you now, but it wasn't.

If you gave that team to Frank, he doesn't play as much of the roster, he can't figure out who plays well together, he can't get the situational roles right, but he does X/O's really well.

Frank will make them play defense and do the right thing, but not all of them. That's a really good thing, but that's the assistant coaches job! That's what assistants are for... that's what Frank is!

Oracle I hear what you're saying but you're not hearing me. While Rick and LB had the pieces neccessary to forge and build IMO Frank does not. LB and Rick would be just as confused about line ups if they had this roster, In fact LB would shorten the rotation to six players and quit within a month.

I'm not saying that either are not capable coaches what I'm saying is they would do no better than LF with the crap we have. You speak as if we have flawless players only inflicted by the inabilities of a coach and you are so wrong. You can't conclude what they or any other coach would accomplished with this roster when you and I both know it's sub-par.

Whatever issues Rick may have encounter with Rip, Tay, Chauncey and the rest of them they would be far more at a disadvantage with the players currently on this roster in dealing with Knight, Stuckey, Bynum and Maxiell. You can't keep dismissing the talent level and even prior to the finish product they were more fundamentlly sound than the four players I just mentioned (meaning they could be polished) that there was a foundation to work from.

[WTF]

Rest assure that his rotation would have went 7 deep and many of the same players wouldn't see the light of day from being deep in his dog house.

LB was never a fan of Euro Players so you know what that means, LB would have crucified Knight, JMax would be on the bench. Monroe would be moaning like a girl saying LB was too tough. Bynum would have been named starting PG not because LB loved him but simply because he's the best we had (prior to Jose)

Mostly likely LB rotation would have looked like this Drummond, Monroe, Tay, Stuckey, Bynum and only Charlie and Singler would have seen any PT Slava because he's not the typical Euro and actually will stay in the post. I'll change a bit and say LB might have gotten 42 win out of them. But while LB could get away with this, LF couldn't.

[Grizz2]

The MAIN difference between where we are and where we could be is COACHING!

Frank is a good coach, but not a good head coach... big difference!

Oracle, that's 100! Rick Carlisle won 50 games in back-to-back seasons with old, lazy ass "Uncle Cliffy" and "no talent" Michael Curry in his starting lineup (with only no offense Ben Wallace as the only paint defender)...His teams were grossly under-talented compared to what Lil' Larry has to work with. 50 wins today has us with a divisional championship to 4th seed in the playoffs.
Larry Brown's forte was teaching, and I believe this team would be on fire, by now, under his guidance...he loved working with young confused players, and teaching them to play the right way...this is why his college coaching record is as stellar as it is.

Oracle and DX .. some really really great insights and quotes from you both on the nuances of coaching and on past Piston head coaches .. High Praise!

[Grizz2]

Kobe would have looked weird in a Pistons jersey. The man has been in the league 16, 17 years. It would be weird seeing him in another jersey - Prince

Hey Clown Boy, in 2007 Kobe would have looked like a winner in a Detroit Jersey the question wasn't talking about now in was in reference to what could have and should have happen 6 years ago when we needed to trade you soft ass. Had we brought Kobe in with Sheeed, Ben, and Chauncey we would have won titles in 07, 08 and 09. No Moron Kobe would have looked like a Champion the only thing weird was why we didn't trade your arse a long time ago.

Wisefan all we needed in those days was another quality combo guard. Remember that is what we had when the Pistons won the championship. After that Dumars did nothing to improve the team that should have won at least one more championship. But of course Dumars wanted to make sure he took care of his friends. Hunter was Dumars good friend so that is what we got. And don't forget the other gem and best friend of Dumars, Michael Curry. He was the biggest brown noser of them all. Watching Joe's favorites which include Maxiell at least allows some Piston fans to get some needed sleep during the ball games. It was never Prince who did anything wrong as much as you want to blame him. It all falls on the shoulders of Joe Dumars and the fringe players Joe gives contracts to based on friendship.

Don .. it is interesting you are posting this because this is what Wise has been saying .. correctly .... for years ... I think Wise is right that Kobe would have been awesome here .. There is no arguing that ..

[Grizz2]

I wonder but really know the answer. No way! There is no way any point guard can be effective when your starting 5 includes Jason Maxiell. Last night Memphis did not guard Maxiell. That means it is extremely difficult for Monroe to get loose. That means the lane is clogged all the time. And that is why management has decided to bring in a circus show featuring Bynum and Charlie V. Now Knight is getting a lot of heat because they had to bring in Calderon. This has never been Knight's fault. Soon Calderon's money shots will be taken away from him by the defense. Notice how much Jose has to shoot the ball. Is it possible for a point guard to run a pick and roll play? Dumars wants Maxiell to play so Maxiell will be a starter so Joe can justify giving him a new contract. Frank is just a puppet because he can't be that dumb. I had to laugh a few weeks ago when one poster mentioned that he thought that Bynum should be a starter because he has earned it. Yes that is true Piston fans. We have a circus team meant to perform at a carnival. And Bynum fits right into a circus type team which can fool a lot of fans and get them to buy a ticket. However, most Piston fans are not idiots and have decided not to pay and drive to see this Piston team. I can't imagine that Monroe will sign a new contract with Detroit.

Great Post Don ... You said it better than I did of course since you know basketball better ..

Yes .. I want Bynum to start .... I want BK7 to focus on being a PG .. even if it is from the bench .. English or Middleton would be perhaps better choices for SG but ... Frank loves his vets ...

[WTF]

Rest assure his roster wouldn't have went 9 deep. However the shake up would have been so profound many of your heads would spin. First Monroe likely wouldn't start if all was fair you would likely be looking at Drummond, Tay, Charlie, Stuckey and again Bynum starting with the reserves being Slava, Monroe, Singler and Knight.

While Rick could likely get away with this LF can't. I'm sure somewhere in between the rotations I listed in this post and the previous post is where LF would like to be but he can't.

[Grizz2]

It stops with Lawrence Frank ... If Joe is the puppet master than Frank is a lost cause and a puppet .. not a head coach .. .so he gets blame too no matter if Joe decides the course to take ..

[merc]

According to Bynum's agent he will still be a Piston after Thursday... he's the one guy I thought would be dealt.

[WTF]

It stops with Lawrence Frank ... If Joe is the puppet master than Frank is a lost cause and a puppet .. not a head coach .. .so he gets blame too no matter if Joe decides the course to take ..

Men ultimately get kead to their death in war, while leaders watch from a distance. Is that man a bad solider? or do we honor him as courageous. LF is efforts are Heroric all things considered.

[deusXango]

It stops with Lawrence Frank ... If Joe is the puppet master than Frank is a lost cause and a puppet .. not a head coach .. .so he gets blame too no matter if Joe decides the course to take ..

Men ultimately get kead to their death in war, while leaders watch from a distance. Is that man a bad solider? or do we honor him as courageous. LF is efforts are Heroric all things considered.

Wise, this ain't war, it's basketball but, if it was war, Grizz is saying Lil' Larry would be branded a coward. I'm calling him a coward and a traitor if what you say is true.

[Oracle]

It stops with Lawrence Frank ... If Joe is the puppet master than Frank is a lost cause and a puppet .. not a head coach .. .so he gets blame too no matter if Joe decides the course to take ..

Men ultimately get kead to their death in war, while leaders watch from a distance. Is that man a bad solider? or do we honor him as courageous. LF is efforts are Heroric all things considered.

Wise, this ain't war, it's basketball but, if it was war, Grizz is saying Lil' Larry would be branded a coward. I'm calling him a coward and a traitor if what you say is true.

DX NAILED it!

Wise, you have the nerve to make excuses for a grown ass man, and whine about people making excuses for Knight? Shame on you, LOL!

A man in war or life(and your war example sucks), lives or dies by what he does. If somebody tells you to jump in front of a truck coming at 70mph, you're the dead one!

If Frank is following orders, so be it, but don't tell me he isn't 100% responsible, because he's paid to be! Joe gets NO blame on this one, it's not his job!

Joe should be judged by the resources he gives the coach, and these resources are good enough to make the playoff in the east, but this team is barely disciplined!

Where is the discipline when BK7 is allowed to be a turnover machine and still start, Moose disappearing in big games, Maxiell's poor production. Wildly inconsistent lineups, and player deployment. Players shut out for little or no reason and forgotten and players playing good and you never see them again.

You call this coaching?

Give me a break, just apply simple LOGIC to this. Where would we be if...

1. We didn't start out every season with a close to 20 game losing streak?
2. We had the discipline to hold a freaking lead!
3. We played the players that actually produce
4. Had a fair and competitive way of determining who plays

If Frank hit the first two, we would be figting for 6th seed!

Please don't tell me that we don't have a coaching problem unless you can back it up with facts, not emotion.

[Grizz2]

It stops with Lawrence Frank ... If Joe is the puppet master than Frank is a lost cause and a puppet .. not a head coach .. .so he gets blame too no matter if Joe decides the course to take ..

Men ultimately get kead to their death in war, while leaders watch from a distance. Is that man a bad solider? or do we honor him as courageous. LF is efforts are Heroric all things considered.

Wise .. wow .. I thought I was reading Tennyson or James Joyce ... Enjoyed your reply a lot though we dont agree ... The noblest post in the short history of this site ... GADZOOKS!

Actually I would love to use your post next time Knight has a bad game ... If you havent copyrighted it already that is! Perfectly expresses how I feel about Knight being pushed into SG ...

[Oracle]

They let Drummond play when he should be sitting, and now Knight is hurt, but they don't force his butt down?

What's the deal?

[Oracle]

By Kid-Gilchrist!

CV's defense is a KILLER on that last play.

CV just leaves him man open, and guarding nothing but air, and it leads to bad stuff!

[Oracle]

He's tied with CV in Assists... a crummy 2 Assists for a PG?

[Sebastian]

Pistons Pals, I'm telling you'll if there is/are no move(s) made by 3:00 PM EST by OUR Pistons Joe may as well start writing his letter of resignation.

No moves by tomorrow will be a clear indication that Gores will be hiring a new President of Basketball Operations to make the decisions going forward. No moves by tomorrow and Joe will be replaced by Draft night.

[Sebastian]

Damn, Daryl Morey is a pimp. Earlier doing the week, it was reported that Morey and the Rockets would not be involved in trades, before the deadline; and they are involved in a three team deal sending: Patrick Patterson, Cole Aldrich and Toney Douglas to the Kings for Thomas Robinson (2013 #5 Pick), Francisco Garcia and Tyler Honeycutt. Garcia is a guy that can be trusted, when on the floor. Honeycutt may be cut. The Rockets also moved the Morris twin to Suns, so that he can play along with his brother.

I say Morey is a pimp, because he has used a bunch of spare parts (although Patterson is a very decent player) to acquire last year's #5 Pick, who may prove to be a very effective player, and he used their #12 2012 Pick (Jeremy Lamb) to assist with the acquisition of James Harden.

Joe sure can learn a lesson or three from Morey.

Yippie, WE beat the Bobcats, tonight!

[Sparma]

What will be remembered is the Kidd-Gilchrist dunk; I see it's already featured on SI.

Kudos to Monroe for recovering immediately and playing well down the stretch.

Early, it looked like a replay in a minor key of last night's game, with Knight aggressive and clicking with Calderon, only to have the team overtaken in the second quarter with Calderon out of the game for a long stretch. One of Knight's best games, driving hard to the basket but also passing well.

Weird game by Calderon. He finished with 2 assists (topped by Knight, Monroe, Bynum, and Stuckey), yet played an excellent game, one indication of which is him leading the team in +/-. The two headed attack worked well early and he clicked with Bynum late as well. Still, I want him to take more control of the game because he's the most capable PG by far. It's as if he's reacting to others not running to the right spots routinely and has decided the highest efficiency results from him running to spots instead. Heady play to pull up on a breakaway with time running out, hitting the two frees.

I think Bynum hit Slava inside three times in the second quarter.

Stuckey drove hard to the basket in the second half, hitting some tough shots. Of course when he charged to the basket at the end, it didn't go.

Not sure what the defense on Mullins was supposed to be, but it wasn't working. On one play Monroe came charging out too late to prevent the distant shot. I also saw CV shadowing him.

Solid game by Singler who's been able to clean up on messy plays numerous times at SF.

Funny to hear Kelser praise Gordon for his vast array of effective shots. [In spite of Gordon's plummeting value, what with his plea to his coach to "humble" himself, I agree with a commenter on PP that Charlotte would not consider taking Maggette from us for a Gordon & a 1st rounder.]

As someone who's had a couple of knee operations, I cringed when Knight got hit from the side by Walker with his foot planted. Incredible that he was sent back out, only to get hit again at once [I guess they're saying the second injury was to the ankle]. Hope he's okay, as he proclaims.

[deusXango]

Sebastian, that's why Houston is my 2nd favorite team, their willingness to make the neccessary moves to improve. The basketball world knew James Harden wasn't going to stay with OKC but, it was Houston that took the initiative, while Detroit talked all sorts of nonsense about Harden's shortcomings...look at what he's done and meant to that franchise. The damnedest thing is we had the resources to outbid Houston for Harden, just like I believe we could have obtained T-Rob (I didn't know he was on the block but Joe should have known).

It's a big difference between Morey and Dumars, as much of a difference as it is between McHale and Lil' Larry. I'll never elevate any team above the Pistons, even though it leaves me with nothing more than hope for a better day.

If Josh Smith is not a Piston by this time tomorrow, Joe should be fired by Friday morning...he can't be trusted with the draft or making decisions on the free agent market, so what would the continued need for him be? How much of a splash is the Calderon trade this year when you balance it out with the Gordon trade? If Joe acquires Smith, then it's a done deal re-signing him and Calderon, and next years team can hit the ground running and winning!

*As I was writing this post, I see that Harden just ran wild again with 46 points...damn we could use that, but since he's gone, why not field what we know best; the most hellacious defensive team in the NBA, led by Drummond and Smith.

[Sponsored content]