Just interjecting ..

[Grizz2]

I actually agree with most of your post, but I think you're confused about what we're saying about Drummond.

I even said Memphis would win anyway, just that the more beef you have down low, the better your chances.

It's the difference between the answers you get from a coach after the game. When asked, "To what do you attribute the loss"?

Good Coach: Well, we have some critical turnovers, blah, blah...

Frank: Ugh, we showed up!

I didn't agree with Langolis, I just reported what he said, and I also don't agree about how long it takes for the hook shot. It could take forever if you need a Kareem sky hook, but if you just need another go to move, one good off season will get you 60% there, and then just work on perfecting it!

But Joe may have done a good thing in hiring Frank. Frank has one more year after this season, and by the look of this team, a caretaker coach could be of use for one more year.

My problem with Frank is that he doesn't seem to understand the concept of rebuilding. You either rebuild the whole team, or concentrate on developing key players, or both.

Sadly Frank isn't doing any of these things, and one more year of that could hurt us for years!

Oracle .. props on your explaining the basics of playing players .. and of developing them .. .. Sort of been constant venting theme of myself and a few others here as well

BUT .. " caretaker coach !"

Joe has used a similar expression .. You are putting a positive spin to it .. but it is red flag mad bull for me ..

I just think Frank is doing more harm than good .. and IMO .. .that there is no such thing as a caretaker coach .. THAT term means .. as far as I am concerned .. WE COULDNT GET A COACH WORTH A DARN ...so be happy that we got this guy who .. probably isnt so terrible .. right?

My point since Flip the Coach left has been .. Dont try to get a coach you feel will be JUST OK ...meh ... before we contend .. INSTEAD .. get a good coach .....period .. because developing a team requires a good coach just as much as when the team is contending ...

I would agree that some coaches are GOOD / BETTER at developing .. and some are GOOD / BETTER at leading contending teams ..

Curry .. Kuester .. and probably Frank .. could and cannot do either kind of coaching at a satisfactory level .. Those are caretaker coaches and i think pretty much .. bad coaches ..

If you have an inferior coach .. who makes bad decisions ... then that coach can really damage your roster in terms of development like (1) playing players out of position .. (2) not playing the young players enough on a growing incremental basis.. (3) not setting them straight when they goof up .

Frank is doing all 3 of these lamentable things to some degree more than is good.. .. IMO .. and has done more (at least a little more) harm than good .. Some good yes ..

I admit there are times when it is just the player's fault .. The coach did everything fairly well .. and we still lost ..

And losing to the Grizzlies is not a reason in itself to get a new coach ..

Forgive me for explaining this because most likely you agree with some or most ...

It is just the term AND the concept I really have some revulsion for .. caretaker coach ...

Where has that ever worked before? Rick Carlisle? I would just say he was a good coach ... for development or contending .. and he got canned for not kissing someone's butt in the Piston's office ..

[Grizz2]

A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?

Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It's what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings]. Coaching is about, "How do I get these people to play at their peak level?" Yeah, the X's and O's mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That's not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.

But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it's not that, you don't have a challenge, you don't have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that's the part that I miss


Read More: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Go Stones!]

At what point do the Hawks send Josh Smith to a bad team b/c they can get a good draft pick out of it and he won't come back to hurt the Hawks in the future? Assuming there are similar offers on the table? If so, Pistons may be a good team to trade with.

Joe D likes the 2nd round or high 1st round picks. (When he had low 1st round picks he traded down into the 2nd round). If he continues with the 1st round picks, he will not be able to pay them all in the future. That is what makes Singler a STEAL, considering he is our starting SF!

[WTF]

What words of wisdom will there be after tonight's loss to the Bobcats.

[deusXango]

Caretaker coach=assistant coach!!

Grizz, Oracle, I got nothing but mad respect for you guys opinions and insights into the game...I had to get that said first because I feel that in my latest rant, y'all took it that I was directing some of it towards you, which was not the case. Let me explain.

Given the past practices of our current coach, when it comes to players and losses, it's how it's effected our young players who are lacking proper development (IMHO), with fragile confidence foundations (due to their inexperience in the pro game), I became overly protective of Drummond (who I feel is the legitimate next Pistons superstar). When he returns and the Pistons continue to loose, due to player mismanagement by the coach, I don't want him thrown under the bus to keep a happy face on Lil' Larry. I was reading too many different sites, and it was spreading like wild fire, "what would have happened if Drummond was here." When Drummond was here the Pistons were a sub .500 team!! Your point is well taken Oracle, it'd help to have another big body down low but, I offer for your consideration, Drummond is a game changer, not hired help, but that's all Lil' Larry uses him for. I mean, my God, he's been backing up Jason Maxiell but, the way he's been subsituted it appears that he's Monroe's backup...he should be playing along side of Monroe (working on their long-range development and chemistry), not leading a 2nd unit. If the little man can get away with that, without offering adequate explanations, he can do damn near anything destructive and get away with it.

Grizz, I've asked you before not to lighten up for any reason, passive doesn't fit you well, passionate does...keep bringing it strong and leave the vanilla intellectual spiels for others...you won't be out on an island all by yourself, there's Sissy; he's got your back.

[deusXango]

What words of wisdom will there be after tonight's loss to the Bobcats.

Wise, after looking at the performances of the players who've been buried on the bench last night, it would be sad justice for Lil' Larry if the Pistons lost every game that those players are minimized from here on out. After treating Jerebko like dog sh!t in London, he was last nights highlight in a beatdown. I hope everyone saw the inside/outside game potential of Middleton...an athlete we could've used when Stuckey was injured (would've been better than Singler at SG...IMHO) earlier in the year. He seems to be everything Joe said he was when he drafted him; don't know what the coaches problem has been. Kravtsov and English are some fiesty son of a guns, aren't they?

Keep starting Maxiell at PF, and BK7 at SG. Keep bringing in the "clowns" (Stuckey and Bynum) at the wrong time, and as long as the game is close, let our future continue to rot on the bench, and you'll pay for it Lil' Larry!

[cool breeze]

Detroit scored 14 points in the paint during the first quarter before Bynum entered the game. The Pistons failed to score more than 12 points in the paint for the rest of the game until close to the end. The effect of Bynum completely changed the way this team played offense. Against any team who makes the playoffs, this is the way it would be if Detroit could ever qualify for the playoffs which is next to impossible the way this team is made up today. You see Bynum score drive to the basket and seem to dominate some games this season so everyone including the idiot head coach gets on the bandwagon. Why because Bynum is a player people who know nothing about basketball like to watch. If you want to have a solid team building something special, there is no way Bynum could be part of something like that. Last night we saw up close what a good defensive orientated team who wanted to win badly could do when Bynum was on the floor. Every Piston player was out of sinc. How many times did Bynum lose the basketball from excessive dribbling in the first half. How many turnovers happened when Bynum was on the floor? This is nothing more than street basketball where fans watch Bynum create for himself but last night the truth came out loud and clear. Memphis was waiting for Byum to enter the basketball game. Most likely Prince had something to do with forming the game plan. Frank is an idiot and needs to be fired.

Did anyone watch Charlie V last night? I was watching Kravtsov in the 3rd quarter trying to play defense with Charlie V and had to laugh. Charlie goes out on a pop out way beyond the free throw line on wrong side of the guy he is defending maybe thinking the guard with the ball was going to travel 8 feet beond the key. The guard was properly guarded by Charlie's teammate and the opposing guard had no lane to drive to the basket. So Charlie's man just drops down to the paint where Kravtsov has to now guard two bigs. Easy layup and charlie is not pissed at himself. He has no idea that Memphis has made a fool of him. This happened at least three other times in the 3rd quarter alone. And the coaching staff is shown just sitting there watching as spectators. They must not know the proper way you should be playing defense. What other conclusion can you come up with? If Bynum and Charlie V are not scoring 25 points a game than they with screw up any team at any level. This is not basketball that should be played at the highest level which is supposed to be the NBA. I now believe that this coaching staff cannot teach or coach any team on how to play proper defense or how to run an offense. It is crystal clear to me because Frank tolerates stuff that few people who know basketball could take. There is a reason why Charlie V has been sitting on the bench for most of his entire contract with the Pistons. He is not team orientated and will never be able to grasp the concepts of team defense which means any team Charlie is on with fail. It only takes one player to screw up the works and it is bynum on offense and Charlie V on defense. Also, Bynum is a horrible defender as he displayed last night as well.

Notice that Kravtsov never plays with Monroe. This is to protect the playing rights of Maxiell and Charlie V. How about Jerebco playing next to Monroe. Jerebco does know how to play defense but not in Frank's system because Frank has no system. The truth comes out in the game film. Any good coach should see where the weaknesses are located and where the breakdowns are occuring. But this coach ignores those facts. Why in hell were Bynum and Charlie V on the floor in the 3rd quarter of that game based on what was actually happening? Was it because of some set in stone rotation thing? No, the opposing announcers wondered why Calderon was on the bench. Stuckey was available to play point guard. He actually made some good passes in that game and for sure can play better defense than Bynum. And why in hell is Bynum the 2nd point guard instead of either Knight or Stuckey in the first place? Is it that Mr. Gores is a showman and wants a show fo the crowd and couldn't care less about creating a real basketball team? I believe that for this team to move forward in a positive way, Charlie V and Bynum cannot be a part of things. It is fools gold to play those two guys. Let Knight make mistakes playing point guard when Calderon is on the bench. Or let Stuckey do that job. It is crazy to believe what is happening. We are almost in the month of March and this Piston team is relying on Charlie V, Bynum and Maxiell to get the job done. This team is about to explode in the opposite way we want it to. There is no hope for the future. We have the same players who have never been consistant on any team being key players on this Piston team. This season will not be known as a turnaround season after all. This is a lost season where major changes are needed all because of the failure of management and the coaching staff to teach young players how to play team defense and selecting losing player combinations to execute Franks foolish game plan. What quality player would want to play for Frank? Prince has to be so happy. Even Daye looked good for the opposing team.

[deusXango]

According to Vince Ellis...According to Vince Ellis....According to Vince Ellis. Am I the only one who's tired of hearing Vince Ellis's "wet blanket" view of what's NOT going to take place by the trade deadline, after encouraging us fans to wait so long? Someone should pull his head out of his ass for him, and hold it under water until the bubbles stop coming up!

[cool breeze]

A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?

Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It's what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings]. Coaching is about, "How do I get these people to play at their peak level?" Yeah, the X's and O's mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That's not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.

But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it's not that, you don't have a challenge, you don't have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that's the part that I miss


Read More: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Very good post Grizz. This is really true. Maybe Frank can draw up a good out of bounds play but can he teach players how to execute and believe in his plan? And can players like Charlie V ever get the spiritual part of basketball? Charlie could be a good player but something is wrong in his brain. He is a nightmare for any coach who might choose to rely on him as a consistant player. The mental part of this game is the most difficult. I recall a statement from Isiah Thomas and Bill Laimbeer talking about how they just refused to lose games. First you need to have the proper talent which doesn't include Maxiell playing power forward at 6 foot 6 inches tall. Then you need to have players with heart who really care about building team chemistry which means you don't give up easy baskets at any time which excludes players like Bynum and Charlie V. But if the coaching staff can't help bring some of the mentality needed especially for young talented players then you have what we are currently watching with this Piston team. Because the coaching staff has relied on players who will never have the ability to be part of something great, we will never find out if the young guys sitting on the bench for most of this season have what it takes to be part of something special. Thanks Mr. Gores, Dumars and Frank.

[cool breeze]

According to Vince Ellis...According to Vince Ellis....According to Vince Ellis. Am I the only one who's tired of hearing Vince Ellis's "wet blanket" view of what's NOT going to take place by the trade deadline, after encouraging us fans to wait so long? Someone should pull his head out of his ass for him, and hold it under water until the bubbles stop coming up!

Yes dX someone has finally said it. I am sick of his comments as well.

[WTF]

There is something to be said about coaching fundamentally sound players and talented mis-guided players. I think this part gets lost on of you because we tend to think we got best players in the world and we simply don't. It's hard to make a good assessment of LF when player are incapable of executing the simplest of plays and trust me there is nothing complex about how LF coaches.

While I do believe that good coaching is a must and that they need to be motivators, organizers, and teachers as a Head Coach, to completely take the onus of development and, playing the right way away from players is insane. There is 80 things wrong with team and mostly all of it has nothing to do with LF coaching but it seems everyone is expecting LF to either fix it or come up with a viable solution to things that Joe and the players are largely responsible for.

Moose plays like a pussy more often than not, he tends to play lazy at time and without the passion of a player his size should play. He's f**king soft and somehow we expect LF to lend Moose a pair of balls when he faces top centers and power fowards.

Brandon for all his talent needs to take trip to OZ and seek out the Great Wizard for a brain. Many of you expect the Larry of OZ to give it to him. NBA head coaches aren't expected to teach fundamentals that what suppose to happen at the college ranks, but because players like Brandon get over-stated by the ESPN Hype Machine it the illogical thinking is to blame a coach.

Roster as a whole is still flawed just as it was with Kuester and Curry as coaches. Too Fat Joe's credit he's begiining to see the light in one that he brought in a Pure PG , cut his ties with Tay, and recognizes that he needs to turn his attention to players like Josh Smith. This team is still filled with tweeners and combo pieces. Well I like the versatility of players all most have a true calling in the positions they play. None of these players beside Drummond, Engish, and Calderon are true or pure anythings. To ask or expect LF or any coach to win with these collection of misfits is insane.

Though I could come up with a bunch of different coaches I would like to see here, none could produce a winner with the roster we have.

[lemonpen]

A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?

Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It's what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings]. Coaching is about, "How do I get these people to play at their peak level?" Yeah, the X's and O's mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That's not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.

But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it's not that, you don't have a challenge, you don't have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that's the part that I miss


Read More: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the snippet was how much easier it is to get things done from X's & O's to kumbuya sessions when you ALWAYS have the most alpha of alpha dogs in existence playing on your side.

[lemonpen]

There is something to be said about coaching fundamentally sound players and talented mis-guided players. I think this part gets lost on of you because we tend to think we got best players in the world and we simply don't. It's hard to make a good assessment of LF when player are incapable of executing the simplest of plays and trust me there is nothing complex about how LF coaches.

While I do believe that good coaching is a must and that they need to be motivators, organizers, and teachers as a Head Coach, to completely take the onus of development and, playing the right way away from players is insane. There is 80 things wrong with team and mostly all of it has nothing to do with LF coaching but it seems everyone is expecting LF to either fix it or come up with a viable solution to things that Joe and the players are largely responsible for.

Moose plays like a pussy more often than not, he tends to play lazy at time and without the passion of a player his size should play. He's f**king soft and somehow we expect LF to lend Moose a pair of balls when he faces top centers and power fowards.

Brandon for all his talent needs to take trip to OZ and seek out the Great Wizard for a brain. Many of you expect the Larry of OZ to give it to him. NBA head coaches aren't expected to teach fundamentals that what suppose to happen at the college ranks, but because players like Brandon get over-stated by the ESPN Hype Machine it the illogical thinking is to blame a coach.

Roster as a whole is still flawed just as it was with Kuester and Curry as coaches. Too Fat Joe's credit he's begiining to see the light in one that he brought in a Pure PG , cut his ties with Tay, and recognizes that he needs to turn his attention to players like Josh Smith. This team is still filled with tweeners and combo pieces. Well I like the versatility of players all most have a true calling in the positions they play. None of these players beside Drummond, Engish, and Calderon are true or pure anythings. To ask or expect LF or any coach to win with these collection of misfits is insane.

Though I could come up with a bunch of different coaches I would like to see here, none could produce a winner with the roster we have.

Coaches from Red Aurbach to Scotty Boman to George "Sparky" Anderson have openly proclaimed talent as the #1 ingredient for being a winner. Precious few will over-achieve and typically for very short runs. I think we (all of us) tend to minimize the talent level necessary to even reach the playoffs.

[WTF]

Kobe would have looked weird in a Pistons jersey. The man has been in the league 16, 17 years. It would be weird seeing him in another jersey - Prince

Hey Clown Boy, in 2007 Kobe would have looked like a winner in a Detroit Jersey the question wasn't talking about now in was in reference to what could have and should have happen 6 years ago when we needed to trade you soft ass. Had we brought Kobe in with Sheeed, Ben, and Chauncey we would have won titles in 07, 08 and 09. No Moron Kobe would have looked like a Champion the only thing weird was why we didn't trade your arse a long time ago.

[Sebastian]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

The Palace gets emptier and emptier, as the Trade Deadline approaches and not a peep of any personnel moves are said to take place.

Sorry, but Jose Calderon, Kyle Singler, Rodney Stuckey, Jason Maxiell, the Temptations, Galdys Knight with or without the Pips, the Coasters, the Drifters, MC Hammer, or any other 20th century musical act are not going to bring back the fans.

WE need talented players; plain and simple.

As Florida Evans said, when she learned of her husband's [James Evans'] tragic death: Damn! Damn! Damn!

[Oracle]

Is talent important? Of course it is, but important for what?

You don't need great talent to win! Larry Brown PROVED on almost every stop that you can take pedestrian talent and beat the crap out of undiciplined teams on a regular basis, but you're not going to win a championship without really good talent.

Trust me, X/O's are VERY important, but without that ingredient that Phil Jackson is talking about, the additional mental edge that comes from a leader(coach) that has clarity of vision and a dominant will, I give you the current Detroit Pistons!

You take this EXACT same team and you give it to Carlisle or Larry Brown, and it's a REAL battle for the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs.

Both would achieve this in radically different ways, but both would get there with this roster!

Carlisle would utilize every menber of this team and milk productivity out of putting the right pieces on the floor at the right time.

LB would play a shorter lineup, but those he played would produce at a very high level, and BK7 wouldn't be a turnover machine. The guys he didn't play regularly would see important minutes when he knew what they had could present either a matchup problem, or thier skill was important for the win!

The MAIN difference between where we are and where we could be is COACHING!

Frank is a good coach, but not a good head coach... big difference!

[Oracle]

Seb, a winning team changes that, fans love the guys that they have a lot more if they win!

BTW, not a Piston on this list...

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[cool breeze]

Kobe would have looked weird in a Pistons jersey. The man has been in the league 16, 17 years. It would be weird seeing him in another jersey - Prince

Hey Clown Boy, in 2007 Kobe would have looked like a winner in a Detroit Jersey the question wasn't talking about now in was in reference to what could have and should have happen 6 years ago when we needed to trade you soft ass. Had we brought Kobe in with Sheeed, Ben, and Chauncey we would have won titles in 07, 08 and 09. No Moron Kobe would have looked like a Champion the only thing weird was why we didn't trade your arse a long time ago.

Wisefan all we needed in those days was another quality combo guard. Remember that is what we had when the Pistons won the championship. After that Dumars did nothing to improve the team that should have won at least one more championship. But of course Dumars wanted to make sure he took care of his friends. Hunter was Dumars good friend so that is what we got. And don't forget the other gem and best friend of Dumars, Michael Curry. He was the biggest brown noser of them all. Watching Joe's favorites which include Maxiell at least allows some Piston fans to get some needed sleep during the ball games. It was never Prince who did anything wrong as much as you want to blame him. It all falls on the shoulders of Joe Dumars and the fringe players Joe gives contracts to based on friendship.

[cool breeze]

I wonder but really know the answer. No way! There is no way any point guard can be effective when your starting 5 includes Jason Maxiell. Last night Memphis did not guard Maxiell. That means it is extremely difficult for Monroe to get loose. That means the lane is clogged all the time. And that is why management has decided to bring in a circus show featuring Bynum and Charlie V. Now Knight is getting a lot of heat because they had to bring in Calderon. This has never been Knight's fault. Soon Calderon's money shots will be taken away from him by the defense. Notice how much Jose has to shoot the ball. Is it possible for a point guard to run a pick and roll play? Dumars wants Maxiell to play so Maxiell will be a starter so Joe can justify giving him a new contract. Frank is just a puppet because he can't be that dumb. I had to laugh a few weeks ago when one poster mentioned that he thought that Bynum should be a starter because he has earned it. Yes that is true Piston fans. We have a circus team meant to perform at a carnival. And Bynum fits right into a circus type team which can fool a lot of fans and get them to buy a ticket. However, most Piston fans are not idiots and have decided not to pay and drive to see this Piston team. I can't imagine that Monroe will sign a new contract with Detroit.

[Oracle]

I wonder but really know the answer. No way! There is no way any point guard can be effective when your starting 5 includes Jason Maxiell. Last night Memphis did not guard Maxiell. That means it is extremely difficult for Monroe to get loose. That means the lane is clogged all the time. And that is why management has decided to bring in a circus show featuring Bynum and Charlie V. Now Knight is getting a lot of heat because they had to bring in Calderon. This has never been Knight's fault. Soon Calderon's money shots will be taken away from him by the defense. Notice how much Jose has to shoot the ball. Is it possible for a point guard to run a pick and roll play? Dumars wants Maxiell to play so Maxiell will be a starter so Joe can justify giving him a new contract. Frank is just a puppet because he can't be that dumb. I had to laugh a few weeks ago when one poster mentioned that he thought that Bynum should be a starter because he has earned it. Yes that is true Piston fans. We have a circus team meant to perform at a carnival. And Bynum fits right into a circus type team which can fool a lot of fans and get them to buy a ticket. However, most Piston fans are not idiots and have decided not to pay and drive to see this Piston team. I can't imagine that Monroe will sign a new contract with Detroit.

Absolutely Don, and I said that last night!

Calderon has been changed from a pass first true PG into a shooting guard because Frank can't figure out what players to play and when!

Knight caught all the heat, but I keep saying, compare Knight's record to Jose's record near the end of the season. Jose is still the superior PG, but Knight was bringing a different dimension to the team, and he'll eventually improve as a PG.

The evidence is slowly forming, but as I said, this is a coaching problem, this roster could perform at a higher level just by finding a better coach!

BTW, just for those that think we over value players, it's not what you think! We're not saying that our talent level is top notch, we're saying that in light of the teams ahead of us, there's no reason that we can't perform better and compete for a 7/8 position in the east.

I am kind of glad we aren't there for one reason(the pick), and sad on another, but it is what it is!

[deusXango]

There is something to be said about coaching fundamentally sound players and talented mis-guided players. I think this part gets lost on of you because we tend to think we got best players in the world and we simply don't. It's hard to make a good assessment of LF when player are incapable of executing the simplest of plays and trust me there is nothing complex about how LF coaches.
Most of the players on the Pistons recieved better coaching in college than what Lil' Larry is providing in the pro's...all things considered. If his coaching style is so simple, there's no reason anyone should have been left to rot on the bench (Kravstov, English, and Middleton, not to mention Jerebko).

While I do believe that good coaching is a must and that they need to be motivators, organizers, and teachers as a Head Coach, to completely take the onus of development and, playing the right way away from players is insane. There is 80 things wrong with team and mostly all of it has nothing to do with LF coaching but it seems everyone is expecting LF to either fix it or come up with a viable solution to things that Joe and the players are largely responsible for.
Lil' Larry hasn't allowed, key players in the rebuild, to show if they were responsible or not, by playing Prince and Maxiell for extended minutes. BK7 should have been benched and Stuckey should have been removed from the rotation, long ago, for showing lack of responsibility.

Moose plays like a pussy more often than not, he tends to play lazy at time and without the passion of a player his size should play. He's f**king soft and somehow we expect LF to lend Moose a pair of balls when he faces top centers and power fowards.
When the Moose goes up against the top bigs in the league I don't expect Lil' Larry to cut his balls off either, by starting Maxiell along side him, when there are bigger, longer, more athletic options available. Some are disappointed in Monroe, I'm disgusted with Lil' Larry.

Brandon for all his talent needs to take trip to OZ and seek out the Great Wizard for a brain. Many of you expect the Larry of OZ to give it to him. NBA head coaches aren't expected to teach fundamentals that what suppose to happen at the college ranks, but because players like Brandon get over-stated by the ESPN Hype Machine it the illogical thinking is to blame a coach.
I don't expect Lil' Larry to teach Knight to think the game through but, I do expect him to use his head and bench his ass until he shows some signs of getting it. How much "brain power" has Lil' Larry shown by moving Knight to SG with the arrival of Calderon?

Roster as a whole is still flawed just as it was with Kuester and Curry as coaches. Too Fat Joe's credit he's begiining to see the light in one that he brought in a Pure PG , cut his ties with Tay, and recognizes that he needs to turn his attention to players like Josh Smith. This team is still filled with tweeners and combo pieces. Well I like the versatility of players all most have a true calling in the positions they play. None of these players beside Drummond, Engish, and Calderon are true or pure anythings. To ask or expect LF or any coach to win with these collection of misfits is insane.

Though I could come up with a bunch of different coaches I would like to see here, none could produce a winner with the roster we have.
Wise??!! Nothing could've been done better with this squad with Mike Brown, Nate McMillan, Bill Laimbeer, or Isiah Thomas leading them?! They all would have deployed the same rotations and strategies that Lil' Larry has? Kravtsov, Singler, and Middleton aren't pure players?

Wise, you m'man and none of my rebuttals were aimed at you personally (but one), rather I used your points as an organized platform to address what a lot of fans that support Lil' Larry's continued tenure as coach thinking is, that I disagree with. The only thing that shocked me is your suggestion that no coach could have done a better job than what Lil' Larry's done so far. He may not be out politic'd but, he damn sure can be out coached.

[WTF]

You take this EXACT same team and you give it to Carlisle or Larry Brown, and it's a REAL battle for the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs. - Oracle

I have to disagree with this because the team that both Carlisle and Brown coached here previously where more fundamentally sound and seasoned, Brown likely would have had the same issue he encountered in taking the New York job. And I honestly don't think Carlisle would fair any better with this current group of players we have on the roster.

Let's not sell those players we had under Carlisle and Brown short, in saying that the talent level was average, neither coach was dealing with young players like these. This is not a high BB IQ bunch we have here and every coach need those type of players to win and so did Phil Jackson.

Easy for Phil to sit back and say that, I mean really how much motivating he had to do with MJ and Kobe. I don't see a Kobe and MJ on this roster. I agree that both Rick and LB had to push the players they had and sell them on a concept but I also don't see a Rip. Chauncey, Tay, Sheed and Big Ben on this roster either. It's not just coaching.

[deusXango]

The MAIN difference between where we are and where we could be is COACHING!

Frank is a good coach, but not a good head coach... big difference!

Oracle, that's 100! Rick Carlisle won 50 games in back-to-back seasons with old, lazy ass "Uncle Cliffy" and "no talent" Michael Curry in his starting lineup (with only no offense Ben Wallace as the only paint defender)...His teams were grossly under-talented compared to what Lil' Larry has to work with. 50 wins today has us with a divisional championship to 4th seed in the playoffs.
Larry Brown's forte was teaching, and I believe this team would be on fire, by now, under his guidance...he loved working with young confused players, and teaching them to play the right way...this is why his college coaching record is as stellar as it is.

[WTF]

There is something to be said about coaching fundamentally sound players and talented mis-guided players. I think this part gets lost on of you because we tend to think we got best players in the world and we simply don't. It's hard to make a good assessment of LF when player are incapable of executing the simplest of plays and trust me there is nothing complex about how LF coaches.
Most of the players on the Pistons recieved better coaching in college than what Lil' Larry is providing in the pro's...all things considered. If his coaching style is so simple, there's no reason anyone should have been left to rot on the bench (Kravstov, English, and Middleton, not to mention Jerebko).Blame Joe

While I do believe that good coaching is a must and that they need to be motivators, organizers, and teachers as a Head Coach, to completely take the onus of development and, playing the right way away from players is insane. There is 80 things wrong with team and mostly all of it has nothing to do with LF coaching but it seems everyone is expecting LF to either fix it or come up with a viable solution to things that Joe and the players are largely responsible for.
Lil' Larry hasn't allowed, key players in the rebuild, to show if they were responsible or not, by playing Prince and Maxiell for extended minutes. BK7 should have been benched and Stuckey should have been removed from the rotation, long ago, for showing lack of responsibility.Blame Joe

Moose plays like a pussy more often than not, he tends to play lazy at time and without the passion of a player his size should play. He's f**king soft and somehow we expect LF to lend Moose a pair of balls when he faces top centers and power fowards.
When the Moose goes up against the top bigs in the league I don't expect Lil' Larry to cut his balls off either, by starting Maxiell along side him, when there are bigger, longer, more athletic options available. Some are disappointed in Monroe, I'm disgusted with Lil' Larry.Blame Joe

Brandon for all his talent needs to take trip to OZ and seek out the Great Wizard for a brain. Many of you expect the Larry of OZ to give it to him. NBA head coaches aren't expected to teach fundamentals that what suppose to happen at the college ranks, but because players like Brandon get over-stated by the ESPN Hype Machine it the illogical thinking is to blame a coach.
I don't expect Lil' Larry to teach Knight to think the game through but, I do expect him to use his head and bench his ass until he shows some signs of getting it. How much "brain power" has Lil' Larry shown by moving Knight to SG with the arrival of Calderon?Blame Joe

Roster as a whole is still flawed just as it was with Kuester and Curry as coaches. Too Fat Joe's credit he's begiining to see the light in one that he brought in a Pure PG , cut his ties with Tay, and recognizes that he needs to turn his attention to players like Josh Smith. This team is still filled with tweeners and combo pieces. Well I like the versatility of players all most have a true calling in the positions they play. None of these players beside Drummond, Engish, and Calderon are true or pure anythings. To ask or expect LF or any coach to win with these collection of misfits is insane.

Though I could come up with a bunch of different coaches I would like to see here, none could produce a winner with the roster we have.
Wise??!! Nothing could've been done better with this squad with Mike Brown, Nate McMillan, Bill Laimbeer, or Isiah Thomas leading them?! They all would have deployed the same rotations and strategies that Lil' Larry has? Kravtsov, Singler, and Middleton aren't pure players?

Blame Joe
Wise, you m'man and none of my rebuttals were aimed at you personally (but one), rather I used your points as an organized platform to address what a lot of fans that support Lil' Larry's continued tenure as coach thinking is, that I disagree with. The only thing that shocked me is your suggestion that no coach could have done a better job than what Lil' Larry's done so far. He may not be out politic'd but, he damn sure can be out coached.

DX too much assumption is made about the power LF has in running this team as he see fit. It's been far too obvious who dictates who plays what amount of PT. I don't think LF has the choice to sit Max, or Brandon at least not in the manner it should happen. Do you honestly think Joe would have allowed for Stuckey being benched at 8.5 million a season? Do you honestly think LF wants to start Maxiell? LF is limited in what he can and can not do with this roster? LF has to sell the company line and still try to make this sh!t work.

we would have to assume that things/circumstance (Joe's input) would be a lot different if all the coaches you mention were here coaching.

[WTF]

The MAIN difference between where we are and where we could be is COACHING!

Frank is a good coach, but not a good head coach... big difference!

Oracle, that's 100! Rick Carlisle won 50 games in back-to-back seasons with old, lazy ass "Uncle Cliffy" and "no talent" Michael Curry in his starting lineup (with only no offense Ben Wallace as the only paint defender)...His teams were grossly under-talented compared to what Lil' Larry has to work with. 50 wins today has us with a divisional championship to 4th seed in the playoffs.
Larry Brown's forte was teaching, and I believe this team would be on fire, by now, under his guidance...he loved working with young confused players, and teaching them to play the right way...this is why his college coaching record is as stellar as it is.

Big Ben was averaging 13rebs and almost 4blocks a game. then there was Mr. Stackhouse who was avergaing 21.9pts, 6ast, 5reb a game and then there was Atkins who average 14pts a game and old man Cliffy average 14.6 pts 5reb. Llastly lets not forget Corliss who was already being fitted for a 6th man award. Don't act as if we had a bunch of scrubs on that team.

I don't care how talented we might be today they simply don't have the IQ of the teams Rick and LB had.

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