What moves should Joe be making?

[Grizz2]

Pistons Pals, I'm telling you'll if there is/are no move(s) made by 3:00 PM EST by OUR Pistons Joe may as well start writing his letter of resignation.

No moves by tomorrow will be a clear indication that Gores will be hiring a new President of Basketball Operations to make the decisions going forward. No moves by tomorrow and Joe will be replaced by Draft night.

Sebastian .. What moves do you think Joe COULD make .. that other teams would like too? And that would help us out long term or short term?

[Oracle]

Who knows?

If nothing is done, I will be very disappointed, but is it a firing offense?

I don't know, simply because I don't know what the plan is, and Joe clearly does!

What we do know is that Calderon moved his family here to Detroit. I don't know what that means, but hopefully he's settling in for the long haul, and has been informed about what the roster could look like next year.

The time to think about firing Joe, if you're running this team(and that's you Gores), is after the season, after the draft, then into the offseason.

Gores will know all he needs to know before preseason, and if the team we field isn't playoff caliber, the axe should and probably will fall! This is it for Joe, it's fish or cut bait!

I really want Joe to blow my mind with another Sheed like trade! That was the ONLY time Joe has ever appeared on our forum to tell us anything, but then we only had one real forum on the DetNews site. Today, we're all spread out!

BTW, it's a really bad time to even think about Josh Smith! We've already got the possibility of Calderon & Bynum just walking away for nothing, and you want to add renting Smith for a few months to that mess.

Joe would be a fool to take that risk! It would be better to sign him to a new contract after the season! I believe it would be illegal to get him this season and extract a promise that we could resign him, but who knows what's said behing closed doors!

[Grizz2]

Who knows?

If nothing is done, I will be very disappointed, but is it a firing offense?

I don't know, simply because I don't know what the plan is, and Joe clearly does!

What we do know is that Calderon moved his family here to Detroit. I don't know what that means, but hopefully he's settling in for the long haul, and has been informed about what the roster could look like next year.

The time to think about firing Joe, if you're running this team(and that's you Gores), is after the season, after the draft, then into the offseason.

Gores will know all he needs to know before preseason, and if the team we field isn't playoff caliber, the axe should and probably will fall! This is it for Joe, it's fish or cut bait!

I really want Joe to blow my mind with another Sheed like trade! That was the ONLY time Joe has ever appeared on our forum to tell us anything, but then we only had one real forum on the DetNews site. Today, we're all spread out!

BTW, it's a really bad time to even think about Josh Smith! We've already got the possibility of Calderon & Bynum just walking away for nothing, and you want to add renting Smith for a few months to that mess.

Joe would be a fool to take that risk! It would be better to sign him to a new contract after the season! I believe it would be illegal to get him this season and extract a promise that we could resign him, but who knows what's said behing closed doors!

Oracle ... The Calderon trade was a good trade .. and it is helping the team .. Are we passing the ball better nowadays? Seems like it .. even by players not named Calderon .. and Prince and Daye get to compete for a title ..

Getting a major FA would be awesome but that is in July ..

Did Joe really go on the Detroitnews forum? Missed that! Anybody save that post? lol ..

[Grizz2]

Sebastian, that's why Houston is my 2nd favorite team, their willingness to make the neccessary moves to improve. The basketball world knew James Harden wasn't going to stay with OKC but, it was Houston that took the initiative, while Detroit talked all sorts of nonsense about Harden's shortcomings...look at what he's done and meant to that franchise. The damnedest thing is we had the resources to outbid Houston for Harden, just like I believe we could have obtained T-Rob (I didn't know he was on the block but Joe should have known).

It's a big difference between Morey and Dumars, as much of a difference as it is between McHale and Lil' Larry. I'll never elevate any team above the Pistons, even though it leaves me with nothing more than hope for a better day.

If Josh Smith is not a Piston by this time tomorrow, Joe should be fired by Friday morning...he can't be trusted with the draft or making decisions on the free agent market, so what would the continued need for him be? How much of a splash is the Calderon trade this year when you balance it out with the Gordon trade? If Joe acquires Smith, then it's a done deal re-signing him and Calderon, and next years team can hit the ground running and winning!

*As I was writing this post, I see that Harden just ran wild again with 46 points...damn we could use that, but since he's gone, why not field what we know best; the most hellacious defensive team in the NBA, led by Drummond and Smith.

DX .. Harden has been awesome .. I never opposed getting him but you were the one advocating .. .and it was right on .... Awesome call .. I am more concerned about the head coach we have that the GM .. the recent drafts have been pretty good ..

And the Gordon trade ... Some will say it was worth it to get rid of Gordon .. Look at the trouble he is causing in Charlotte .. On the other hand .. we need someone at SG .. although Knight did a great job today of being that co-PG/SG thing .. I was really against this trade .. perhaps no one more than me because I hated giving the 1st round pick .. But I admit I am less against than I was ... It just depends if you think Ben Gordon could have upped his game this season just as CV did ... and where that number 1 pick we end up getting goes ..

I think it was an unnecessary risk since Gordon's money comes off the books next season anyway? And unless we get a huge FA signing .. that would be another sign the trade was a waste ..

[Murph]

Pistons Pals, I'm telling you'll if there is/are no move(s) made by 3:00 PM EST by OUR Pistons Joe may as well start writing his letter of resignation.

No moves by tomorrow will be a clear indication that Gores will be hiring a new President of Basketball Operations to make the decisions going forward. No moves by tomorrow and Joe will be replaced by Draft night.

Come on Seb...the team is coming around. The Calderon trade was an excellent one, and Calderon seems like the kind of guy who might re-sign with a mid-market team like the Pistons. All we need is Drummond in the starting line-up and we'll be competitive. (A new coach wouldn't hurt either.)


I thought Brandon Knight finally played much better last night at the starting SG spot. If Knight could just get more comfortable as a SG, and start hitting his outside shots, that would add one more weapon to our offense. Knight had 21 pts, 5 rbs and 3 asts.

I also thought Monroe and Clalderon played well as starters. Monroe really filled up the stat sheet last night with 19 pts, 7 rbds, 7 asts, 3 blks and 1 stl. And Villanueva played well off the bench, pulling down 9 rebounds and blocking 2 shots.


We've won 4 out of 6, without Drummond, but we could be in for an ugly weekend with home and away games agaisnt a red hot Indiana team. I expect the "Fire Joe" chorus will get pretty loud this weekend.

[Murph]

You know, I bitch about Piston Powered and their writers over there, but I have to admit this is one hilarious article by Dan Feldman.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Grizz2]

You know, I bitch about Piston Powered and their writers over there, but I have to admit this is one hilarious article by Dan Feldman.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Thanks Murph! Humor is needed ..... always ...

A+ ..Skyhigh ... Piston players have never been higher .. the final post on Frank was hilarious .. yet .... true!!!

[WTF]

Yeah I knew I would get killed after that last LF post It reminded me of those days of defending Flip

[Grizz2]

Yeah I knew I would get killed after that last LF post It reminded me of those days of defending Flip

... it was so lofty....

Hey I got killed for defending Knight ...

It is tougher to defend a player or coach or GM than to attack then ..

[deusXango]

I'm watching Flip Saunders on "Mike and Mike in The Morning" commenting on Dwight Howard's PT with the Lakers, and he remarked "if you play a player 20 minutes, why not 30? There's really no difference in the fatigue factor." My first thoughts went to the use of Andre Drummond (before injury) by Lil' Larry, then I thought about a popular trend of thought that the reason is Joe Dumars wanted him played that way; that Lil' Larry was powerless over Dumars in coaching decision making.

Joe's job is not to coach the team from behind the scenes but, to acquire talented players for his coach to use; as a GM he has to keep track of the "clock of opportunity" and positively act before time runs out. "Strike while the iron is hot" is apparently something Joe doesn't understand, hence, he's a time waster. After the Ben Gordon trade, Joe went back to sitting on his hands...look at what went down from then until we traded for Calderon. Speights moved, and we could have had him here (better than Maxiell and Villanueva IMO), Harden moved and I believe in my heart of hearts that a backcourt of Harden and Calderon is far better than Harden and Lin!! Harden and Speights moved while Joe sat on his hands (some on this forum said Joe was waiting for the trade deadline...he was gonna raise hell by the deadline; well here we are). His song and dance has been about "preserving the financial integrity" so that we can be major players in the off-seasons FA market. What phuqueing "market?" Being a loyal fan, who watches and waits, I realize that he's been wasting time, by buying time with endless excuses...it's always about "tomorrow" with this guy. Get your collective heads around this one folks; he's not in pursuit of Josh Smith now but, he's gonna sign him during the off-season (out of this mountain of cash he's been stockpiling). So, wherever Smith goes by way of trade, that team won't be able to re-sign him, and he'll be on the FA market. If you believe that, stay away from bars, card games, and fast women!

It has been suggested that Tom Gores wait until after the season, the draft, and FA signing period before making a decision on Joe's future here...why?? Why hamstring a brand new GM with a mess Dumars would leave behind? Why not give the incoming GM as much leverage as possible to turn the team in the direction of his vision to succeed? We've already got a coach that wastes time, a GM who does the same, now we want an owner that practices that nonsense. Who can figure? 5 hours 10 minutes and counting. Josh Smith today, or call "M.A.R.V.I.N." tomorrow.

[Murph]

Would anyone trade Stuckey for JJ Redick?

I'd be tempted.

[merc]

Would anyone trade Stuckey for JJ Redick?

I'd be tempted.

Sure nuff... not that we should overpay for Redick... just to get an expiring for Stuckey saves us another 4Mil this summer.

[merc]

Looking forward to the next game to see if some of these dysfunctional rotations was posturing for the deadline or is LF as dumb as most suspect.

[Sebastian]

Pistons Pals, I'm telling you'll if there is/are no move(s) made by 3:00 PM EST by OUR Pistons Joe may as well start writing his letter of resignation.

No moves by tomorrow will be a clear indication that Gores will be hiring a new President of Basketball Operations to make the decisions going forward. No moves by tomorrow and Joe will be replaced by Draft night.

Sebastian .. What moves do you think Joe COULD make .. that other teams would like too? And that would help us out long term or short term?

Yo, Grizz, I am of the belief that Joe should move at minimum two of the expiring contracts that are currently on OUR books.

If I were, Joe I would be badgering the hell out of Danny Ferry, right now, with the hope of acquiring the services of Josh Smith. Maggette and Jerebko for Smith. The Hawks are not going to resign Josh Smith, so they may as well get similar cap space (Maggette's $11 million) and a player who can do some of the things that Smith can do, albeit on a lower scale (Jerebko). Also, Jerebko may be a player that the Hawks may be able to move at a later date, as his salary is somewhat portable.

Then I would bug the hell out of the folks in Orlando. I would offer Maxey (expiring $5 million) and Will B. (expiring $3.5 million) for Afflalo. I personally don't believe that Magic are very interested in having Afflalo remain on their team, even though he is very good two-way shooting guard and his contract is not that taxing - $7.5 for the next three years. The additional salary relief of $8.5 million will afford the Magic the opportunity to even more of a player during the free agent period.

I would let Calderon walk on July 1 and draft Otto Porter (SF - Georgetown) with OUR draft pick.

Then WE can have something to truly look forward to.

PG- B. Knight/Stuckey
SG- Afflalo/English/Middleton
SF- Josh Smith/Porter/Singler
PF- Moose/Charlie V.
C- Dre Drummond/The Ukraine

But, if it was only as simple as this.

[Sparma]

Yes, I'd trade Stuckey for Redick. For some reason, he's on a downward trend (although he played well yesterday). Rather have an insider's shot at Redick or additional cap space come the summer than Stuckey. Don't think I'd give up Jerebko though, unless it's just clear that his injury's permanently diminished him, making him unworthy of his salary.

Merc, yes, we'll find out if featuring various players was an act of genius in anticipation of the deadline or just dumb. The one that sticks out for me is Maxiell. He started the season strong, but has steadily declined. The most likely explanation is that playing too many minutes and going up against guys (like Nene) who are too big for him wears him down. When we were getting killed on the offensive boards by team after team, playing Kravtsov 5-10 minutes a games (with Monroe at PF) would have eased that problem and would have kept Maxiell fresh and a genuine candidate for a decent trade. On PP earlier in the season the suggestion was made (by Patrick Hayes as I remember) that Frank just knew Kravtsov wasn't ready. It's clear now Frank had no such inside information. A minor tweak would have improved our play and put us into a better position at the trade deadline. In that case, I blame bad coaching because why would Joe sign Kravtsov to a decent contract only to give him no opportunities until deep into the season?

[merc]

They need guards we need wings... Stuckey or Bynum for Brewer or Shumpert (filler where needed)?

[merc]

From Ellis... "#Pistons source says nothing going on at all" on the trade front."

[WTF]

Don't get me here wrong people, it's not that I'm advocating for LF to remain coach here. I smelled this type of of Witch Hunt before when I use to defend Flip Saunders and didn't like it then. The only difference from then and now is that I was advocating for Flip to stay and thought he was a good coach. There are several reasons why I stand up for Frank:

1. I believe there is a greater force (Joe) involved when it comes to his rotations and how PT is distributed. He can't be that dumb no coach can, that he would voluntary elect not to put his best players on the floor so when he gives the spill of bringing Drummond along slowly that's not Frank, that's Joe. There is no way you can tell me that during practice that he hasn't noticed Slava whipping on Maxiell ass which I'm sure has happened.

2. If Larry is as dumb as many claim then that makes Gores the bigger dummy for hiring him and I think that's a lot more scary. There were many other direction we could have went in selecting a coach but Gores choice was LF. I agree LF makes for a great assistant because he's a student of the game but I simply prefer former players as head coaches.

3. Joe mettles, we seen him do it with Kuester, Curry and to a degree Flip why you all find it hard to believe that he's does not have his hand in LF Political Based Rotations I cannot understand. It was never good politics to have Charlie sit at 8 million a season and to amnesty him was just as bad politically for Joe. Sure the fans wanted it and media promoted it, but had Joe done it that whole CV-BG signing would have shown poorly to Gores. Same thing with sitting Maxiell at 5 Million a season, come on do the Political Math here Maxiell 5 Mil, Charlie 8 Mil and Mags 10 Mil. How does Joe explain 23 Million sitting on his bench not being major contributors on the floor to Gores. LF is a pawn in other words he's a scape-goat just like Flip, Curry and Kuester were.

4. The roster is still an issue , if it wasn't no one would me offerring up the various trade scenario. The roster is obvious flawed and many continue to over-state the atlent we have on the team. A #1 just ain't what a #1 use to be and yet we still think when drafting it the top ten that somehow the next Magic, Bird, Zeke and MJ has falling into our laps in selecting this fundamentally lacking players. we then expect a coach to garner similar results with this flawed players. Yeah maybe if we were looking at the next Kobe or Lebron who's talents thrumped any lack of fundamentals. I can't blame LF for that or any other coach.

Yeah bottom line is W/L at the end of the day and that is how LF will be judged rather he's totally the blame or not.

[merc]

Broussard says scratch Redick from the Pistons wish list.

[merc]

Goodwill... "Things seem very quiet on the #Pistons front. The players don't think anything is gonna happen. We'll see"

[Sparma]

The cause of Ben Gordon's comical and disrespectful rant against Mike Dunlap is unknown, but I'd speculate that NBA players don't take well to coaches who haven't played, who nevertheless convey an attitude of knowing it all. I encourage those who disagree to acquire all five of Dunlap's DVDs on coaching.

Frank's walking a fine line, on the one side being pretty sure that devotion from his players doesn't run deep, and on the other side depending on the backing of Dumars -- himself someone with an uncertain future -- who's been known to hang his coaches out to dry. That's an uncomfortable spot. Under those circumstances, I don't think he's done too badly.

Based on remote TV images, I'd say that Calderon is Frank's biggest confidente and backer among players. And he's been here two weeks.

At least Frank just got the endorsement from the greatest coach ever for being a valuable assistant coach. Now if he could just get the vision thing.

[lemonpen]

I've seen in print & video where LF and Joe have explained how bringing Andre along slowly is a joint agreement. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.

I've seen in video where LF adresses the need to win & develop youth, while being clear about winning first, until instructed otherwise. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.


But, I have not seen anything that indicates hiring LF was Gores choice in opposition to Joe's desire. Someone help me.

[lemonpen]

Go get Danny Granger. Give Arnie a chance to work his magic.

Don't trap yourself into having to spend on mediocre leftovers. Defer use of some of that FA lootie until 2014.

[WTF]

Well this certainly Sucks Rocks!!!!

I can't believe there was nothing, not one thing that Joe couldn't have done before the deadline. Even if it was just to pocket more Cap Space we could have done something.

Okay so nothing has been done and they need to lose this crazy notion of tring for an 8th seed playoff push and straight play the youth. Time to sit Maxiell ass and give Slava a run in the starting line up, time to start English and sit Bynum ass so that Knight can go to backup PG. Time to stop playing Stuckey as a SF and allow Middleton to back up Singler.

[Sebastian]

Piston Pals: I am certain that Joe will be let go before Draft night.

Gores has put the breaks on Joe's "ability" to add to the roster.

There will be a new engineer in town, soon, who will be charged with rebuilding OUR Pistons.

Let the farewells begin ...

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