Re: FORUM

[merc]

Looks like our scrubs have very little league value.

[WTF]

I've seen in print & video where LF and Joe have explained how bringing Andre along slowly is a joint agreement. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.

I've seen in video where LF adresses the need to win & develop youth, while being clear about winning first, until instructed otherwise. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.


But, I have not seen anything that indicates hiring LF was Gores choice in opposition to Joe's desire. Someone help me.

lemonpen there was never anything verbally said by Gores, Joe or LF confirming this. This was all local media assertions of being the case. That Joe wanted Woodson over Frank and that Frank was Gores decision.

[Oracle]

I've seen in print & video where LF and Joe have explained how bringing Andre along slowly is a joint agreement. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.

I've seen in video where LF adresses the need to win & develop youth, while being clear about winning first, until instructed otherwise. I accept the consequences of that constraint and try not to kill the coach over it.


But, I have not seen anything that indicates hiring LF was Gores choice in opposition to Joe's desire. Someone help me.

lemonpen there was never anything verbally said by Gores, Joe or LF confirming this. This was all local media assertions of being the case. That Joe wanted Woodson over Frank and that Frank was Gores decision.

It doesn't matter! If you get robbed of your life savings, which excuse of the crooks will you take and let him off? Frank has his excuses, and it's up to individuals how they feel about them.

One thing for sure, it's a lot easier to brush off Franks failures if you're not responsible for filling seats at the Palace and writing checks(BTW, the same goes for Joe).

Wise: You went overboard fighting for Flip, but you were on solid ground about Flip's coaching ability, he's at least 3-5 times the coach Frank is. My complaint about Flip was that he wasn't the right coach for the team, mostly due to how the environment was after LB!

[Oracle]

Looks like our scrubs have very little league value.

Wasn't it just a little while ago that Prince & Daye were considered to be hard to move scrubs?

We have players with a LOT of value! Dealing isn't a one sided proposition, it takes two(or more in some cases).

You can't determine why deals didn't work out until you know the positions of both sides. IMO, Joe is hard to do deals with for a variety of reasons, but it's not an accident that he most likely is one of the least active GM's in the league!

Having said that, IMO, there were very little incentives for us to deal, being so close to the luxery cap, and any deal worth doing might of had us taking on more salary. After that, there are only minor deals that would help us, but other teams probably weren't interested.

[Sparma]

More and more moves will need to be judged on their own merits, rather than on what they're adding up to.

Joe still gets the chance this summer to show that giving up a 1st rounder for a one year window was worth it.

Langlois justified the move by saying that Detroit saves a year of circa $12 mil in salary, during a time when 1st rounders can be bought for $3 mil. Two problems with that reasoning. I don't think those picks (eg given up by a contending Phoenix some years back) are at the level that Detroit will end up giving up (about #15 in 2014?). Also, Detroit's never to my knowledge bought rights to a 1st rounder for $3 mil, so Langlois' saying that the savings could be put to good use in some fantasy world.

Beyond that, a committed owner like Cuban simply would not give up a good 1st round pick when there's a simple alternative, namely to amnesty Gordon. That alternative would have cost $, but would not have set back the rebuilding plans.

[Oracle]

The available evidence shows them to be quite incompetent!

Evidence:
1. Drummond hurts his back... his back! Somehow they clear him to go back in and re-injure himself! That's STUPID if we're talking about a pine rider in garbage time, let alone our franchise player!

2. Knight takes a really ugly hit to his knee, goes back for x-rays, etc., but as anybody knows, he's hurt and it's going to be bad the next day. But no, they let him back into the game where any player knows he's going totry and compensate, and winds up twisting his ankle... now he's got two injuries!

This is disturbing, and why a coach doesn't use his authority to stop this madness is another sign that Frank is clueless!

[WTF]

The available evidence shows them to be quite incompetent!

Evidence:
1. Drummond hurts his back... his back! Somehow they clear him to go back in and re-injure himself! That's STUPID if we're talking about a pine rider in garbage time, let alone our franchise player!

2. Knight takes a really ugly hit to his knee, goes back for x-rays, etc., but as anybody knows, he's hurt and it's going to be bad the next day. But no, they let him back into the game where any player knows he's going totry and compensate, and winds up twisting his ankle... now he's got two injuries!

This is disturbing, and why a coach doesn't use his authority to stop this madness is another sign that Frank is clueless!

Tough Town! Tough Players! Risky yes but I didn't have an issue if it was the decision of the players to re-enter the games. Only Knight and Drummond truly knew if they were capable or not.

I would only have a problem if there were so mis-diagnosis of there injuries and they hurted themselve, but I don't think it was. Zeke played with a broken thumb and severely sprain ankle and we all thought how heroric it was. Grant Hill played on a broken ankle we thought how heroric that was though it ended up costing him dearly in the end. CB gutted out hamstrings and a hip pointer during the 2006 ECF and again the following 2007 and 2008 ECF.

Sure these games weren't playoff defining moments and they should have sat them both, but it basically the players decision if he feels he can go. Now I don't think Drummond should come back this season, and he should be protected as a franchise player. But I don't see where we should start doubting Kander now when he's been so good in the past.

[Oracle]

"Only Knight and Drummond truly knew if they were capable or not." - Wise

Wise, some of the statements you make cause me to wonder if you think things through before you post.

On what planet has a patient ever known what they were capable of? Oh well, let's do away with x-rays, if you feel good, go with it!

But even after you see the results of letting the player decide in two back to back bone headed moves, you still say something so strange!

Drummond decided and BOOM, Knight decided, and we've got two injuries to fix!

Of course it also smacks of you flip flopping on player attitudes. You complain about players that are not team players, but advocate that players think only of themselves by playing with injuries that remove them from the lineup and hurt the team.

I guess you suggest that people with the flu come to your office and cough in your face, because you're all tough!

Got any AIDS nookie lately?

[deusXango]

Well this certainly Sucks Rocks!!!!

I can't believe there was nothing, not one thing that Joe couldn't have done before the deadline. Even if it was just to pocket more Cap Space we could have done something.

Okay so nothing has been done and they need to lose this crazy notion of tring for an 8th seed playoff push and straight play the youth. Time to sit Maxiell ass and give Slava a run in the starting line up, time to start English and sit Bynum ass so that Knight can go to backup PG. Time to stop playing Stuckey as a SF and allow Middleton to back up Singler.

Wise, all I can say is "Amen Brother, Amen."

[WTF]

"Only Knight and Drummond truly knew if they were capable or not." - Wise

Wise, some of the statements you make cause me to wonder if you think things through before you post.

On what planet has a patient ever known what they were capable of? Oh well, let's do away with x-rays, if you feel good, go with it!
But even after you see the results of letting the player decide in two back to back bone headed moves, you still say something so strange!

Drummond decided and BOOM, Knight decided, and we've got two injuries to fix!

Of course it also smacks of you flip flopping on player attitudes. You complain about players that are not team players, but advocate that players think only of themselves by playing with injuries that remove them from the lineup and hurt the team.

I guess you suggest that people with the flu come to your office and cough in your face, because you're all tough!

Got any AIDS nookie lately?

I Hope Not!


Smack of who? Knight had xrays during the game and they were Fine and he decided to play. I hate to say this Oracle but, You sound like a School Mom Drummond had 2 different injuries, first it was the tail-bone not his back and I can't recall a player sitting out for a sore ass

You're making a big assumption that Kander sent them back on the floor knowing their injuries would cause another. I know you're not a doctor you just play one the forum but I think both players would have to be really dumb to play if they couldn't or without being told they could. It has nothing to do with them not being team players. You're Moaning Oracle like a School Mom, maybe when they both come back we can put shoulder pads and helmets on them.

[deusXango]

Oracle, I'm on board with you concerning 20 year old athletes, who've never had a major injury (backs and knees are major), making playing decisions in the professional areana. Their fitness to play should be totally the coaches decision...he's the responsible party for the multi-million dollar investment in that player, plus the "parental" image responsible for saving "kids", like Drummond and Knight, from themselves. The medical staff clears a hurt player (during a game is shady IMHO) fine; that player doesn't have to heal but, he's gonna rest his injury to come back at 110%. It's the coaches job to "make do" with the players he's got sitting around until his roster is at full strength. On my scorecard that's another black mark against Lil' Larry.

[Grizz2]

More and more moves will need to be judged on their own merits, rather than on what they're adding up to.

Joe still gets the chance this summer to show that giving up a 1st rounder for a one year window was worth it.

Langlois justified the move by saying that Detroit saves a year of circa $12 mil in salary, during a time when 1st rounders can be bought for $3 mil. Two problems with that reasoning. I don't think those picks (eg given up by a contending Phoenix some years back) are at the level that Detroit will end up giving up (about #15 in 2014?). Also, Detroit's never to my knowledge bought rights to a 1st rounder for $3 mil, so Langlois' saying that the savings could be put to good use in some fantasy world.

Beyond that, a committed owner like Cuban simply would not give up a good 1st round pick when there's a simple alternative, namely to amnesty Gordon. That alternative would have cost $, but would not have set back the rebuilding plans.

Sparma .. bulls eye! .. Lets see if the Bobcats give up a 1st round pick to get rid of Gordon ....

Langlois, any predictions on that?

[Grizz2]

Pistons Pals, I'm telling you'll if there is/are no move(s) made by 3:00 PM EST by OUR Pistons Joe may as well start writing his letter of resignation.

No moves by tomorrow will be a clear indication that Gores will be hiring a new President of Basketball Operations to make the decisions going forward. No moves by tomorrow and Joe will be replaced by Draft night.

Sebastian .. What moves do you think Joe COULD make .. that other teams would like too? And that would help us out long term or short term?

Yo, Grizz, I am of the belief that Joe should move at minimum two of the expiring contracts that are currently on OUR books.

If I were, Joe I would be badgering the hell out of Danny Ferry, right now, with the hope of acquiring the services of Josh Smith. Maggette and Jerebko for Smith. The Hawks are not going to resign Josh Smith, so they may as well get similar cap space (Maggette's $11 million) and a player who can do some of the things that Smith can do, albeit on a lower scale (Jerebko). Also, Jerebko may be a player that the Hawks may be able to move at a later date, as his salary is somewhat portable.

Then I would bug the hell out of the folks in Orlando. I would offer Maxey (expiring $5 million) and Will B. (expiring $3.5 million) for Afflalo. I personally don't believe that Magic are very interested in having Afflalo remain on their team, even though he is very good two-way shooting guard and his contract is not that taxing - $7.5 for the next three years. The additional salary relief of $8.5 million will afford the Magic the opportunity to even more of a player during the free agent period.

I would let Calderon walk on July 1 and draft Otto Porter (SF - Georgetown) with OUR draft pick.

Then WE can have something to truly look forward to.

PG- B. Knight/Stuckey
SG- Afflalo/English/Middleton
SF- Josh Smith/Porter/Singler
PF- Moose/Charlie V.
C- Dre Drummond/The Ukraine

But, if it was only as simple as this.

Sebastian ... I like the call on Aaron Afflalo .. I think you are right .. AA can be had .. and would solve our SG problem and give us great perimter D ... Would trade anyone except our big 3 for Afflalo .. Joe still has a few hours left to get this deal done ....

But that might make Joe look bad for giving him away in the first place?

[WTF]

Oracle, I'm on board with you concerning 20 year old athletes, who've never had a major injury (backs and knees are major), making playing decisions in the professional areana. Their fitness to play should be totally the coaches decision...he's the responsible party for the multi-million dollar investment in that player, plus the "parental" image responsible for saving "kids", like Drummond and Knight, from themselves. The medical staff clears a hurt player (during a game is shady IMHO) fine; that player doesn't have to heal but, he's gonna rest his injury to come back at 110%. It's the coaches job to "make do" with the players he's got sitting around until his roster is at full strength. On my scorecard that's another black mark against Lil' Larry.

DX if it rains tomorrow that's a black mark against Lil Larry

[Grizz2]

Goodwill Twitter... Portland offered Hickson for Maxiell, but wanted a No. 1; Spurs also interested #Pistons


Joe will pick up CV's 8.5 million option .. and then ... amnesty him .. out of pure spite!

[deusXango]

Deep bone imaging scans show small bone cracks and fractures that x-rays don't, and that type of medical equipment is not available in a stadium training room. This is what micro-fracture surgery is all about. I'd hate for BK7 to have to go through the lengthy rehab involved with that if it wasn't neccessary.

As far as Drummond's "tailbone" goes, that's known as the coccyx, and in addition to being very painful, it can be crippling...Calvin Johnson (who's a big boy also) sat out half a season with a sore "tailbone." You've got a computer m'man, Goggle it.

[WTF]

The player that should be on the court is Stuckey, the medical staff never did figure out why he was fainting and no one bemoaned that decision. That sh!ts more scary than what Drummond and Knight was dealing with for all we know Stuckey my blackout again and never come out of it.

On one hand we want this team to be tough have that Bad Boy DNA and Goin To Work Attitude, then on the other we want to treat them like babies. No hate on LF because he didn't go all School Mom on us and sat them down.

[deusXango]

Oracle, I'm on board with you concerning 20 year old athletes, who've never had a major injury (backs and knees are major), making playing decisions in the professional areana. Their fitness to play should be totally the coaches decision...he's the responsible party for the multi-million dollar investment in that player, plus the "parental" image responsible for saving "kids", like Drummond and Knight, from themselves. The medical staff clears a hurt player (during a game is shady IMHO) fine; that player doesn't have to heal but, he's gonna rest his injury to come back at 110%. It's the coaches job to "make do" with the players he's got sitting around until his roster is at full strength. On my scorecard that's another black mark against Lil' Larry.

DX if it rains tomorrow that's a black mark against Lil Larry

HA HA HA HA HA HA Wise you on a real tear, and too much for me today; I yield. That was a classic shot that I can appreciate.

[Oracle]

Good article from Langolis - [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[WTF]

Deep bone imaging scans show small bone cracks and fractures that x-rays don't, and that type of medical equipment is not available in a stadium training room. This is what micro-fracture surgery is all about. I'd hate for BK7 to have to go through the lengthy rehab involved with that if it wasn't neccessary.

As far as Drummond's "tailbone" goes, that's known as the coccyx, and in addition to being very painful, it can be crippling...Calvin Johnson (who's a big boy also) sat out half a season with a sore "tailbone." You've got a computer m'man, Goggle it.

So lets yank a player every time he twist an ankle and bump knees. I hear you but I think its over kill to a certain degree. Players play through pain all the time and we can hardly call what Knight had last night a major injury. I'm sure both had had injuries (twisted knees and ankle) through H.S. College and now the pros and Drummond tail bone injury didn't result in his back injury.

Yes Calvin sat out and should have considering he's getting knocked on his ass in a physical contact sport

[deusXango]

The player that should be on the court is Stuckey, the medical staff never did figure out why he was fainting and no one bemoaned that decision. That sh!ts more scary than what Drummond and Knight was dealing with for all we know Stuckey my blackout again and never come out of it.

I remember one Thanksgiving Day football game when this Lions player named Chuck Hughes was walking back to the huddle, after a failed pass, and fell out, never to get up again.
I remember this big, strong, fast basketball player named Hank Gathers, who was a highly rated NBA prospect, took this weird, twisted, stumble, and fell to the court, never to get up again.

I share these grisly memories because it's true, Rodney Stuckey has probably been in the back of all sports fans minds who remember those incidents, and realize the high price that can be paid for our entertainment. I don't care for Rodney Stuckey's game but, I value his life, and if he never amounts to be sh!t on the basketball court, I want him to live a long and happy life filled with good health. The cold hard facts are that the same people who placed him in an awkward professional position, are the same ones that're saying, "you're okay, go out and play...play as hard as you can and be somebody." If the lack of sensitivity for a man's life is excepted, why show concern for the mobility of another man?

Now I'm going back to regular programming; Charlie V is going to exercise his $8.5 million player option...at least he ain't bullsh!tt!ng like Maxiell did last year (pretending there was some interest out there, in an attempt to stick up Joe), and I can appreciate him for his honesty...now step up 'yo game!

[Oracle]

The player that should be on the court is Stuckey, the medical staff never did figure out why he was fainting and no one bemoaned that decision. That sh!ts more scary than what Drummond and Knight was dealing with for all we know Stuckey my blackout again and never come out of it.

I remember one Thanksgiving Day football game when this Lions player named Chuck Hughes was walking back to the huddle, after a failed pass, and fell out, never to get up again.
I remember this big, strong, fast basketball player named Hank Gathers, who was a highly rated NBA prospect, took this weird, twisted, stumble, and fell to the court, never to get up again.

I share these grisly memories because it's true, Rodney Stuckey has probably been in the back of all sports fans minds who remember those incidents, and realize the high price that can be paid for our entertainment. I don't care for Rodney Stuckey's game but, I value his life, and if he never amounts to be sh!t on the basketball court, I want him to live a long and happy life filled with good health. The cold hard facts are that the same people who placed him in an awkward professional position, are the same ones that're saying, "you're okay, go out and play...play as hard as you can and be somebody." If the lack of sensitivity for a man's life is excepted, why show concern for the mobility of another man?

Now I'm going back to regular programming; Charlie V is going to exercise his $8.5 million player option...at least he ain't bullsh!tt!ng like Maxiell did last year (pretending there was some interest out there, in an attempt to stick up Joe), and I can appreciate him for his honesty...now step up 'yo game!

It's a waste of time trying to explain something so fundamental, but the way you put it was really nice. There's the human deminsion and there's the practical dimension of protecting your investment. Both should be in play at all times.

On CV, it is refreshing that he isn't playing stupid games. He knows nobody is going to fork over that much cash for him, so he may as well milk sucker Joe for all he's worth, LOL!

However, I believe that CV has started down the road to playing much better ball, and the proof shows up every game that he's rebounding, blocking shots, and playing decent defense. He doesn't have the smell of an amnesty candidate now, even though he's still overpaid.

[deusXango]

Oracle, I expect that CV will be re-signed (not for as much as he's getting now) when his contract expires, just like Bynum will be this summer...I expect Stuckey and Jerebko to be traded at some point but, Charlie has begun to show some worth to the team, and I hope he gets better.

[Grizz2]

Oracle, I expect that CV will be re-signed (not for as much as he's getting now) when his contract expires, just like Bynum will be this summer...I expect Stuckey and Jerebko to be traded at some point but, Charlie has begun to show some worth to the team, and I hope he gets better.

DX .. fagetabout resigning CV for not as much .. .

[url=CV wants to stay at 8.5M][Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[WTF]

The Pistons also have free agents-to-be Jason Maxiell ($5 million) and Will Bynum ($3.25 million). By not trading them, the Pistons risk losing both without compensation this summer, though keeping them suggests the team might be interested in re-signing one or both. - Mlive

I would stab both my eyes if any part of the above takes place over the summer....

[Sponsored content]