Re: FORUM

[frankied]

what no one ever acknowledges is how smart ben is. his intelligence as a defender is really what set him apart.
on the other hand, howard has always been a dunce. he does what he does, strictly by virtue of his size and quickness and speed. in fact, even now, after 8 years you shake your head at all the dumb stuff he does, offensively and defensively.
is he superior,athletically?
sure.
is he as smart a defender?
no way, no how!

[deusXango]

A few points. First, I never said Howard was a great offensive player. I said he was the best center in the NBA and a future HOFer. Second, calling Howard's offense a "joke" doesn't make any sense. He scores almost 20 ppg, which is tops among NBA centers (Bargnani being injured). Third, Howard only got one shot in the 4th quarter last night, and he hit it. Fourth, any coach running a team that can only get Dwight Howard 1 shot in the 4th quarter ought to be fired immediately. Fifth, any PG that can only get Howard 1 shot in the 4th stinks, and should not start. Sixth, I doubt if Howard is very motivated after playing for Stan Van Gundy for 5 years, and playing with Jameer Nelson for 8 years, so he probably isn't playing up to his full potential. Seventh, Skip Bayless is an idiot, if he thinks Andrew Bynum is a better center than Howard (and I like Bynum). However, if you put Bynum on that train wreck of a team in Orlando, he'd struggle to put up points, and the Magic would stuggle to play .500.

Just my opinions...

True, Murph, true. You're not out on an island all by yourself in recognizing Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA right now. I'm not gonna let my silence suggest that you don't know what you're talking about when there are opposing points of view being expressed. I'd take Howard, if I had the chance, over any center in the league now, and be glad to have him.

[deusXango]

Man, why can't he do that at least every other night!

Oracle, where the hell is dbed when you need him?

[Grizz]

what no one ever acknowledges is how smart ben is. his intelligence as a defender is really what set him apart.
on the other hand, howard has always been a dunce. he does what he does, strictly by virtue of his size and quickness and speed. in fact, even now, after 8 years you shake your head at all the dumb stuff he does, offensively and defensively.
is he superior,athletically?
sure.
is he as smart a defender?
no way, no how!

[deusXango]

If this game, and the last game for that matter, isn't a condemnation against Joe Dumars; I'm not sure what is. Tay out with family problems again (Is the mothership having transmission problems?), and Stuckey playing HORRIBLY down the stretch, yet once again, the Pistons valiantly almost won with the young guys. Not to mention Ben Gordon shifting from family issues to a shoulder problem. And Charlie's ankle "Injury".

Get a fuckin grip, Dumars. My God. By my count, Joe had 26 million dollars a year out for various reasons, and his newly signed 8 million a year guy (HEY!) handing the game to the Hawks down the stretch. That's 26 million out, and 8 million sucking ass.

FIRE HIS LAME ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fly Dog .. Well said! I can think of at least 5 or 6 times when a player has been out for personal reasons this season . ..What gives? I suppose the injuries are due to the shortened training camp . And CV being the least in shape at any moment in time .. makes sense he would go and get injured with relish . .. Strong and true statement on the 26 million dollars playing hookey .. If the Piston could suddenly exchange those players and 26 million dollars for OTHER BETTER MORE DEDICATED PLAYERS, we would be in great shape .. As it is .. those deadwood (I would have included Jmax except he played so well today) are a real albatross around this team's neck .. Development only gets harder with them hanging around .. Stilll no Macklin either .. But we will play D-league pick ups like Wilkins and Russel!"!"!!!!????? To me . the fact that that is happening .. shows me JOE DUMARS decides who starts and plays .. and it is only a matter of time before Frank is shown the door because if he isnt strong enough to stand up to Dumars, then he wont last as our head coach ..

Fly, Grizz, peep this; the season is one month old, every NBA player is under the same pressures of time and scheduling, and Macklin signed with the Pistons December 9th of last year.....D-League call ups have played more than he has. The money wasted is something I'm getting to be alright with. If Gores won't do anything about Joe's decision making then he should blow a hole through Tommy's pocket! Let that be a lesson to all who follow. Can't wait to see what we look like by the All-Star break.

[deusXango]

Maxiell played one hell of a game last night.....who wants to bet that he doesn't have another one like that until after the trade deadline?

[frankied]

letting joe johnson shoot the 3 pointer at the end of regulation time.
almost every coach plays it the same way. a few dont. i've seen phil jackson foul in that situation.
it's a no brainer, imho.
an entire range of ridiculously bad things have to happen for you to lose, if you foul someone in that situation.
on the other hand, if you don't foul, all someone has to do is hit a 3 pointer, which they can do, about 40% of the time.
in all my years of watching nba ball, i think i have only seen, maybe one instance where someone took a shot, took the intentional foul, and then hit a free throw to win a game.
on the other hand, guys hit that last second shot so many times that you cannot count the number of times.
this defeat rests squarely with frank.
you have to have your guys foul the shooter.
and what makes it even worse is that joe johnson actually dribbled inside the 3 point line, just before taking the shot. stuckey could have fouled him, put him on the line and only given up 2 points.
obviously, the coaching staff did not go over that stuff with the players. obviously, they were not prepared. obviously, the coaching staff fell down on the job.

[frankied]

let me be clear: if i had a shot at getting howard at a reasonable price, heckey yes, i would take him.
i' m not blind.
what i have said, however, is that he is overrated.
and in comparison to big men from other eras, his game is woefully limited.
and when you compare him, as a defensive player, to ben wallace, imho, there is no comparison, because wallace did what he did, largely because he was so darn smart. a dominant center at 6'8"?
obviously, he was able to thrive because of his brains.
howard is just the opposite.
if he had ben wallace's defensive smarts, who knows how good orlando would be.
and the idea that howard needs a supporting cast, while arguably true, ignores the fact that ben wallace was THE reason that detroit was the dominant team that it was for several seasons.
detroit was a defensive team - one that struggled to score points, often - but wallace was the hub of a dominant defensive team.
howard comes nowhere near the ability to impose his will on games the way that wallace did.
again, would i take him?
absolutely.
is he a very good player, the best center in the league.
yes, and yes.
but is he in ben wallace's league as a defensive player?
no way. not until he shows a lot more intelligence on the court.

[cool breeze]

I kept saying to my buddy for most of the game tonight that for the first time I was not trying to focus on which players were screwing up. They all made mistakes but the defensive rotations for much of the game until Daye messed up allowing Williams line that big 3 point shot up looked good while a lot of players rotated in and out of the game. Daye made a real key basket but then completely lost it and was guarding nobody when Williams was sitting on the perimeter all alone. And Stuckey should have fouled Joe Johnson before he was able to launch that shot to tie the game with a little over one second left. For two games in a row, our Pistons have played with heart and together. The Atlanta announcer commented that Detroit is turning things around and the team is becoming a solid defensive unit. Credit has to go to Frank, the influence of Ben wallace and play of the young players. I noticed that several times, Knight moved quickly off his man to help Stuckey and stop dribble penetration. Knight has so much courage and toughness you can't help but love the guy. And Monroe and Knight are forming a special bond. They will remember the times that they got their asses kicked and will return the favor in years to come. Big Ben Wallace has been a strong influence on this team this season. He might not be shooting the basketball when he should at times, but he sets the tone on defense and the others are listening. Maxeill played great ball tonight. I am shocked. One other key thing is the work of guys like Wilkins and Russell. Some fans might say those two didn't contribute tonight. Wilkins used his body banging and keeping mistakes low. Russell missed a lot of shots tonight but I liked most of his decisions on offense and he plays really tough defense. The Pistons cannot afford bringing Bynum back into the rotation. the group playing now clearly show that they are thinking TEAM first. I don't know what to think of Daye. He makes huge mental mistakes and needs to keep his mouth shut on the hardwood when things are not going well for him. That is what I love about Monroe and Knight. They just shrug adversity off and keep concentrating on what is happening currently on the court. Daye is showing that he has been pampered and lacks that toughness of Monroe and Daye right now. However, I believe in coach Frank and believe that he might find a way to blend this group of young guys into something special. I also noticed that Jerebco, Monroe and Knight are talking to Daye when he screws up which means that they are demanding more accountability from him. I am not feeling bad at all about the Pistons losing this game or the Miami game. Both should have been Piston victories but right now, I am so happy to watch players who want to do play the game the right way. Monroe and Knight are taking over this Piston team.

[cool breeze]

[quote="cool breeze"][quote="cool breeze"]

33 yr old, 6-6, Lebanese swingman Fadi-al-Khatib

Is Fadi al-Khatib NBA material? It’s a question that has been continuously asked by basketball fans on the internet, considering his huge contribution to the success of the Lebanese national team over the past 10 years.

The answer to the question has come from the Detroit Pistons, who have recently been exchanging emails with Fadi, as “The Tiger” confirmed to The Daily Star in a phone call. A contract may be signed as early as this summer.

“It’s true. I have been exchanging emails with Joe Dumars [Detroit Pistons’ President], who has asked me to come in summer,” revealed Khatib, who is 32 years old.

He added: “I don’t know yet if I am going. Playing in the NBA is something professional players dream of, but I have a family and I am starting a new project here.”

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

I can think of no better way to end the evening after this Piston loss but to watch the video of the Amazing 32 year old Khatib. ]Joe might be sending him an E-mail right now. "Please come Fadi. I will use the Pistons number one pick on you". I know you won't let me down like that punk Rodney White, Darko, Charlie V and Ben Gordon. But remember Fadi, no weapons in the locker room."

[Oracle]

I kept saying to my buddy for most of the game tonight that for the first time I was not trying to focus on which players were screwing up. They all made mistakes but the defensive rotations for much of the game until Daye messed up allowing Williams line that big 3 point shot up looked good while a lot of players rotated in and out of the game. Daye made a real key basket but then completely lost it and was guarding nobody when Williams was sitting on the perimeter all alone. And Stuckey should have fouled Joe Johnson before he was able to launch that shot to tie the game with a little over one second left. For two games in a row, our Pistons have played with heart and together. The Atlanta announcer commented that Detroit is turning things around and the team is becoming a solid defensive unit. Credit has to go to Frank, the influence of Ben wallace and play of the young players. I noticed that several times, Knight moved quickly off his man to help Stuckey and stop dribble penetration. Knight has so much courage and toughness you can't help but love the guy. And Monroe and Knight are forming a special bond. They will remember the times that they got their asses kicked and will return the favor in years to come. Big Ben Wallace has been a strong influence on this team this season. He might not be shooting the basketball when he should at times, but he sets the tone on defense and the others are listening. Maxeill played great ball tonight. I am shocked. One other key thing is the work of guys like Wilkins and Russell. Some fans might say those two didn't contribute tonight. Wilkins used his body banging and keeping mistakes low. Russell missed a lot of shots tonight but I liked most of his decisions on offense and he plays really tough defense. The Pistons cannot afford bringing Bynum back into the rotation. the group playing now clearly show that they are thinking TEAM first. I don't know what to think of Daye. He makes huge mental mistakes and needs to keep his mouth shut on the hardwood when things are not going well for him. That is what I love about Monroe and Knight. They just shrug adversity off and keep concentrating on what is happening currently on the court. Daye is showing that he has been pampered and lacks that toughness of Monroe and Daye right now. However, I believe in coach Frank and believe that he might find a way to blend this group of young guys into something special. I also noticed that Jerebco, Monroe and Knight are talking to Daye when he screws up which means that they are demanding more accountability from him. I am not feeling bad at all about the Pistons losing this game or the Miami game. Both should have been Piston victories but right now, I am so happy to watch players who want to do play the game the right way. Monroe and Knight are taking over this Piston team.

Excellent obversations!!!

Nuff said!!!

[merc]

Don, you got it right... every coach fucks up... but I'm also seeing good rotations and effort... isn't that what we're asking for?
The defensive talent is lacking... coach Frank is also giving the effort... no LB's on the horizon.

[merc]

DX, Macklin to the D-League is the right move... especially since there isn't much time for practice.

Stay the course... effort... training and losses for now.
February is make or break for our pick.

[Grizz]

If this game, and the last game for that matter, isn't a condemnation against Joe Dumars; I'm not sure what is. Tay out with family problems again (Is the mothership having transmission problems?), and Stuckey playing HORRIBLY down the stretch, yet once again, the Pistons valiantly almost won with the young guys. Not to mention Ben Gordon shifting from family issues to a shoulder problem. And Charlie's ankle "Injury".

Get a fuckin grip, Dumars. My God. By my count, Joe had 26 million dollars a year out for various reasons, and his newly signed 8 million a year guy (HEY!) handing the game to the Hawks down the stretch. That's 26 million out, and 8 million sucking ass.

FIRE HIS LAME ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fly Dog .. Well said! I can think of at least 5 or 6 times when a player has been out for personal reasons this season . ..What gives? I suppose the injuries are due to the shortened training camp . And CV being the least in shape at any moment in time .. makes sense he would go and get injured with relish . .. Strong and true statement on the 26 million dollars playing hookey .. If the Piston could suddenly exchange those players and 26 million dollars for OTHER BETTER MORE DEDICATED PLAYERS, we would be in great shape .. As it is .. those deadwood (I would have included Jmax except he played so well today) are a real albatross around this team's neck .. Development only gets harder with them hanging around .. Stilll no Macklin either .. But we will play D-league pick ups like Wilkins and Russel!"!"!!!!????? To me . the fact that that is happening .. shows me JOE DUMARS decides who starts and plays .. and it is only a matter of time before Frank is shown the door because if he isnt strong enough to stand up to Dumars, then he wont last as our head coach ..

Fly, Grizz, peep this; the season is one month old, every NBA player is under the same pressures of time and scheduling, and Macklin signed with the Pistons December 9th of last year.....D-League call ups have played more than he has. The money wasted is something I'm getting to be alright with. If Gores won't do anything about Joe's decision making then he should blow a hole through Tommy's pocket! Let that be a lesson to all who follow. Can't wait to see what we look like by the All-Star break.

DX.. Yeah it is amazing we are rolling with Walker Russell (born on October 6, 1982) and Damien Wilkins (born on January 11, 1980) Is this a bad joke or what? These guys have NO future .. and have NO past with the Pistons or of ANY success in the NBA... . Yet here they are! Meanwhile, Singler says HELL NO JOE I WONT GO! and says he is glad he is in Spain and NOT with the Pistons .. These are NOT the signs indicating our GM is off his doughnut binging and getting back to the real work of making the Pistons a great team once more .

[Grizz]

I have seen about half the Piston games on the Internet and agree that the team appears to be working harder and more effectively on defense than they have for some time . YET . at this moment, the Pistons' rank 2nd to dead last in the NBA at FG % defense, with only the Nets worse .. What gives? Is it just that we dont have the defensive talent or is it that Frank IS getting the team to work harder at defense but NOT USING THE RIGHT defensive focus or strategies to stop the opposition? We are 4 and 16 and gonna rack up the losses .. fine . no problem .. so how is playing Macklin as one of our Bigs rotation gonna screw up the team? Wont Macklin get more support and more real NBA experience by just being played in Piston games? Or is playing SFs at PF just something cool to indulge in by those managing the team?

[Oracle]

Well, not explained, but here's my best guess.

I don't believe that there is a lack of talent, defensive or otherwise.

I think that we are playing a bunch of young players, and it's simply going to take time to yield any useful results.

You don't say a baby lacks the talent to walk after watching their first few attempts. IMO, it's WAY too early to be drawing conclusions.

Frank can't work miracles, and they aren't going to become NBA veterans after a few games.

That's why I loved what Don said. As long as they're buying into the program, sharing the ball, playing team basketball, doing the right things, eventually the wins will come, and the baby will walk!

[Oracle]

Has anyone else noticed the odd way Knight shoots at times?

Blaha called it a cork screw shot, but it looks awfully strange, and I don't remember seeing him shoot that way in college, even though I only saw a few of his games.

[Grizz]

Well, not explained, but here's my best guess.

I don't believe that there is a lack of talent, defensive or otherwise.

I think that we are playing a bunch of young players, and it's simply going to take time to yield any useful results.

You don't say a baby lacks the talent to walk after watching their first few attempts. IMO, it's WAY too early to be drawing conclusions.

Frank can't work miracles, and they aren't going to become NBA veterans after a few games.

That's why I loved what Don said. As long as they're buying into the program, sharing the ball, playing team basketball, doing the right things, eventually the wins will come, and the baby will walk!

Don and Oracle .. Good answer and it is a correct one... and usually there is not one answer to why, especially since we have an extreme case (2nd worst defense in the NBA) .. Give them time because they are young .. well sure .. makes sense...I would add that ...after thinking about it .. We dont have a defensive Big like a young Ben W or Sheed or Laimbeer or Rodman or Salley to patrol and stop good shots from scoring .. blocks .. and intimidation of blocks .. and just filling the lane to keep the opposition out ... We are missing that (2 not just one, to be honest)! That is on the GM .. I do hope the team understands THAT a lack of another 1 or more bigs IS going to make the team WEAK on defense until it is addressed and that they should NOT GIVE UP making the big effort to play Detroit D ..

[deusXango]

"Macklin's most attractive strength surrounds his physical tools, where at 6'9 243 lbs, he possesses a 7'4 wingspan and 9'1 standing reach ... He's a solid athlete whose explosiveness allows him to do damage around the hoop... Moves well on both sides of the ball... Offensively, his biggest strength is his over the left shoulder baby hook when he establishes deep positioning on the interior... Macklin spends the majority of his time in the paint, where he's improved his post game in terms of efficiency, but not in terms of diversity... Defensively he has potential to be an effective post defender with his mobility, strength and length."
-NBADRAFT.NET

Macklin lacks a mid-range game, a poor free throw shooter, and at 25 years old can be considered "over the hill" by some....Dennis Rodman came into the league at this age. With all the limitations one can come up with, it's the few positives that intrigue me; all of his strengths are what Lil' Larry says he wants from his players, he would seem to be the best compliment for G-Money in the paint, and a chemistry guy who adheres to team first play....we don't need him to score. Wallace gets to rest and pace himself on these hellacous back-to-back-to-backs, and Monroe is not getting ganged up on in the paint as much. It seems that the man is capable of bringing, on a consistant basis, some things to the table that Villanueva, Maxiell, and Jerebko can't to the PF position. If he ain't all that, I want to see it on the floor, during games for extended time, not hear about it, for what we hear is not always reliable around here.

[Grizz]

"Macklin's most attractive strength surrounds his physical tools, where at 6'9 243 lbs, he possesses a 7'4 wingspan and 9'1 standing reach ... He's a solid athlete whose explosiveness allows him to do damage around the hoop... Moves well on both sides of the ball... Offensively, his biggest strength is his over the left shoulder baby hook when he establishes deep positioning on the interior... Macklin spends the majority of his time in the paint, where he's improved his post game in terms of efficiency, but not in terms of diversity... Defensively he has potential to be an effective post defender with his mobility, strength and length."
-NBADRAFT.NET

Macklin lacks a mid-range game, a poor free throw shooter, and at 25 years old can be considered "over the hill" by some....Dennis Rodman came into the league at this age. With all the limitations one can come up with, it's the few positives that intrigue me; all of his strengths are what Lil' Larry says he wants from his players, he would seem to be the best compliment for G-Money in the paint, and a chemistry guy who adheres to team first play....we don't need him to score. Wallace gets to rest and pace himself on these hellacous back-to-back-to-backs, and Monroe is not getting ganged up on in the paint as much. It seems that the man is capable of bringing, on a consistant basis, some things to the table that Villanueva, Maxiell, and Jerebko can't to the PF position. If he ain't all that, I want to see it on the floor, during games for extended time, not hear about it, for what we hear is not always reliable around here.

DX . .. thanks for the DRAFT overview of Macklin .. and your viewpoint is dead on ..

[deusXango]

DX, Macklin to the D-League is the right move... especially since there isn't much time for practice.

Stay the course... effort... training and losses for now.
February is make or break for our pick.

Merc, what would be the outcome of Macklin being sent to the D-League and dominating? What if he absolutely displayed everything that this team needs on a game to game basis? When other teams GM's started to clamor for his services would he be traded or brought back up and installed in Lil' Larry's rotation? Why can't we see the effort of this rookie as the losses mount? I for one don't believe Macklin will flop as a result of being placed in a competitive arena for extended PT.

[FlyDog]

To be clear, he is NOT the Defender that Ben Wallace used to be, but he is a very good Defender, regardless of his lack of smarts. But he is a better all-around player than Ben was. He's averaging 20 and 15 this year, and he shoots 58% for his career. He will be in the HOF without question.

DX- I can't figure out why Macklin isn't being given a shot. What's to lose?

[FlyDog]

Dear Joe:

………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…

[deusXango]

Dear Joe:

………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…

priceless FLY DOG, absolutely!

[Fennis Dembo]

The Real Notes and Quotes from the Atlanta game not the stuff we get from the beat writers - by Biff Burns

Coach Frank: We gave away the last two games like it was beer at a fraternity party.

Dumars: (Singing softly to himself)
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen
Nobody knows my sorrow
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen
Glory hallelujah!

Biff Burns: At least the crowd had fun with I Love the 1980’s Night.

As a tribute to the 1980's decade fads, upon entering the building, all guys wearing one earring were given a free swatch watches. Women with two earrings were given complimentary leg warmers.

The team moonwalked from the locker room to their bench while “Thriller” blared over the PA system, there was a standing ovation from the crowd.

All the Piston coaches dressed like Crockett and Tubbs from “Miami Vice”. They wore matching white pants and jackets with no ties. They also had the two-day old beard look. Frank wore sunglasses. They spoke only in halted sentences to the players and really didn’t say too much.

The ushers were all dressed up like Mr. T’s character on the A-Team TV show, Sergeant Bosco "B.A." Baracus. They looked stunning in their Mohawk haircuts and bling. After the Piston made three point plays they passed out Chia Pets and Doc Marten army boots to the crowd.

The halftime show was a big hit with the fans.
Joe Dumars and Charlie V. dressed up in drag like Boy George from the Culture Club and sang “Karma Chameleon” and “Do You Really Want To Hurt Me?” To the last song the crowd yelled, “Yes, we do!”

The announcer, Mason, dressed as Papa Smurf and raffled off the DeLorean car that was in “Back To The Future.” It was won by a Valley Girl, Ondrya Wolfson, from the Saginaw Valley. She screamed, “Oh my God…Super-super nice...Its like so bitchen...Fer sure, fer sure… Okay, fine.”

Then everyone in the crowd held hands in remembrance of “Hands Across America” day.

Tomorrow's game is in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, and a 23 point loss three weeks ago to the 76ers. Sayonora from the Palace.

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