Trade Proposals

[Murph]

Grant for Bagley, Jeremy Lamb’s expiring contract and a protected 1st round pick.

Bagley still has potential, we get a 1st rounder, and we free up $9 million more for free agency.

Or, Grant to Portland for Josh Hart, Satoransky’s expiring contract and the Pelicans protected 1st.

[Murph]

Can we trade this guy already?  Seriously, why are we hanging onto him?  It’s not as if he helps us win.  The Pistons have compiled a 32-94 record (.254) in the Jeremi Grant era.  And he’s been hurt much of the time.

I can’t believe we’re paying him $20 million a year to score 20 ppg on the worst freaking team in the league, TWO YEARS IN A ROW!!!  

Talk about empty stats.  Ya’ll use to complain about Drummond hauling down 15 rpg on a .500 team. This guy leads a .250 team.  

And then he had the audacity to give the Pistons a list of teams he’s willing to be traded to.  WTF???  Does he have a trade clause in his contract?  What freaking planet is he from?  

Is he Troy Weaver’s long lost illegitimate son?

Dump him...for anything. Who cares?  The Kings are rebuilding. Trade him for Bagley and a pick.  At least Bagley is 6’11 and has some potential left.


And don’t even get me started in that turd Kelly Olynyk.

[lemonpen]

Mitchell R:  
Does he look better on paper than on the floor?  FG% above 75%, yeah!  Only 55% of scores are assisted, yeah!  55% of makes are dunks, yeah!    But, Range = 3 feet.  FT% = a Drummond-like 51% (hack-a Mitch ??)    
It isn't like he is busting out with big numbers in limited time. Dude already plays 25 minutes a game and without checking I bet that dosen't include 4 crunch time minutes per half, bringing him above 30 mpg (starters minutes).  I'm not sure there is another gear here.  He may be giving all that he is capable of without targeted improvements.

That’s a pretty insightful analysis on where Robinson might be.  And as Sparma pointed out, he’ll be an unrestricted FA at the end of this season.  What would it take to sign him?  Can he stay healthy?  Are there better options for a starting center next year?


Perhaps a safer bet would be Jalen Smith, a 6’10, 1st round pick (10th) out of Maryland. Smith has played extremely well in very limited minutes for the best team in the NBA.  The Suns are obviously in the hunt for an NBA Championship and have no time to develop a young player like Smith.

Smith is long and lean, and rebounds and defends very well. And he’s only 21.

What would it take?  Would anyone trade Diallo for Smith straight up?  I’d do that trade.  Diallo would be very valuable to the Suns coming of the bench.  But in Detroit, I’d rather start a backcourt of Cunningham and Ivey next year, with Hayes, Lee and F.Jackson coming off the bench.

Don, you watch the Suns.  Any insight on Smith?

Murph, for the money I would favor taking a flyer on Mr. Robinson, as a FA. Get his FT% up around 70 and we would have something on our hands.

[Murph]

Mitchell R:  
Does he look better on paper than on the floor?  FG% above 75%, yeah!  Only 55% of scores are assisted, yeah!  55% of makes are dunks, yeah!    But, Range = 3 feet.  FT% = a Drummond-like 51% (hack-a Mitch ??)    
It isn't like he is busting out with big numbers in limited time. Dude already plays 25 minutes a game and without checking I bet that dosen't include 4 crunch time minutes per half, bringing him above 30 mpg (starters minutes).  I'm not sure there is another gear here.  He may be giving all that he is capable of without targeted improvements.

That’s a pretty insightful analysis on where Robinson might be.  And as Sparma pointed out, he’ll be an unrestricted FA at the end of this season.  What would it take to sign him?  Can he stay healthy?  Are there better options for a starting center next year?


Perhaps a safer bet would be Jalen Smith, a 6’10, 1st round pick (10th) out of Maryland. Smith has played extremely well in very limited minutes for the best team in the NBA.  The Suns are obviously in the hunt for an NBA Championship and have no time to develop a young player like Smith.

Smith is long and lean, and rebounds and defends very well. And he’s only 21.

What would it take?  Would anyone trade Diallo for Smith straight up?  I’d do that trade.  Diallo would be very valuable to the Suns coming of the bench.  But in Detroit, I’d rather start a backcourt of Cunningham and Ivey next year, with Hayes, Lee and F.Jackson coming off the bench.

Don, you watch the Suns.  Any insight on Smith?

[lemonpen]

Killian played well last night, getting a dunk with authority.  Can't remember if it was yesterday or the game before that he hit a right-handed shot.  He does better when he's the lead guard.  Cade didn't play yesterday, but I'd say Killian plays better away from Cade.  He could have started yesterday, but maybe Casey thinks he's getting a nice niche going as reserve.  Baby steps.

I really hope Corey Joseph is traded, and he could really help someone as back up guard, as well as he's been playing.  He's shooting 43.1% from 3, well above his respectable career average.

As a Piston though, he's a problem, or he's a problem in combination with Casey, most annoyingly when Cade gets shunted to the side when Joseph, with some regularity, leads the attack.

Mitchell Robinson would be a welcome addition.  Why we'd give up much for a guy about to be an unrestricted FA is a puzzle to me (even after reading an explanation), but maybe there'd be a wink-wink understanding about a new deal (even contra NBA rules) before a trade.  Don't know much about Jalen Smith.

The latest rumors have the Pistons interested in the Knicks Mitchell Robinson and the Suns Jalen Smith.  I would welcome both those big men, especially Robinson.  Come on Weaver, get something done.



I see Hayes had one of his better games last night...10 points, 8 assists on 5-7 shooting.  Why is Corey Joseph starting?  Hopefully, Joseph is getting showcased ahead of the trade deadline.

Look, I hate to be in the position of defending Killian Hayes.  In no way did I ever want the Pistons to draft him.  Halliburton was the obvious, hands down choice.  

Having said that, I hate to see the kid getting scape-goated for another miserable season.  The Pistons were terrible long before Hayes came to Detroit. This is not his fault.  

Piston fans need to get a grip on reality.  What did they think tanking was going to be like?...all fun and games?

COJO:
I swear I can't tell if Joseph is a team guy or solo act. Dude had me seeing red at the end of the first half. Bey connected on consecutive 3 pointers (one a four point play) on possessions prior to the final shot of the half. Cory ran the clock down never looking at an unguarded Bey on the way to missing a hero-ball attempt.

KH:
Kid made quite a step forward last night, much of which was in crunch time. He was aggressive without going over the top. He made two, count-um two right hand layups. He moved the ball well. He defended solidly. Then like a not quite ready for prime time youngster he made back to back to back mistakes which helped the T-wolves push the lead to double digits. (1: T.O., 2: lost track of his man leading to a score, 3: fouled a 3pt shooter) For once he looked like he belonged.

Weaver:
The ice has been broken in a big way with Levert to Cleveland. Let's get Grant moved. He's a value at $20M but not at $28M for 4yrs.

Mitchell R:
Does he look better on paper than on the floor? FG% above 75%, yeah! Only 55% of scores are assisted, yeah! 55% of makes are dunks, yeah! But, Range = 3 feet. FT% = a Drummond-like 51% (hack-a Mitch ??)
It isn't like he is busting out with big numbers in limited time. Dude already plays 25 minutes a game and without checking I bet that dosen't include 4 crunch time minutes per half, bringing him above 30 mpg (starters minutes). I'm not sure there is another gear here. He may be giving all that he is capable of without targeted improvements.

[Sparma]

Killian played well last night, getting a dunk with authority. Can't remember if it was yesterday or the game before that he hit a right-handed shot. He does better when he's the lead guard. Cade didn't play yesterday, but I'd say Killian plays better away from Cade. He could have started yesterday, but maybe Casey thinks he's getting a nice niche going as reserve. Baby steps.

I really hope Corey Joseph is traded, and he could really help someone as back up guard, as well as he's been playing. He's shooting 43.1% from 3, well above his respectable career average.

As a Piston though, he's a problem, or he's a problem in combination with Casey, most annoyingly when Cade gets shunted to the side when Joseph, with some regularity, leads the attack.

Mitchell Robinson would be a welcome addition. Why we'd give up much for a guy about to be an unrestricted FA is a puzzle to me (even after reading an explanation), but maybe there'd be a wink-wink understanding about a new deal (even contra NBA rules) before a trade. Don't know much about Jalen Smith.

The latest rumors have the Pistons interested in the Knicks Mitchell Robinson and the Suns Jalen Smith.  I would welcome both those big men, especially Robinson.  Come on Weaver, get something done.



I see Hayes had one of his better games last night...10 points, 8 assists on 5-7 shooting.  Why is Corey Joseph starting?  Hopefully, Joseph is getting showcased ahead of the trade deadline.

Look, I hate to be in the position of defending Killian Hayes.  In no way did I ever want the Pistons to draft him.  Halliburton was the obvious, hands down choice.  

Having said that, I hate to see the kid getting scape-goated for another miserable season.  The Pistons were terrible long before Hayes came to Detroit. This is not his fault.  

Piston fans need to get a grip on reality.  What did they think tanking was going to be like?...all fun and games?

[Murph]

The latest rumors have the Pistons interested in the Knicks Mitchell Robinson and the Suns Jalen Smith.  I would welcome both those big men, especially Robinson.  Come on Weaver, get something done.



I see Hayes had one of his better games last night...10 points, 8 assists on 5-7 shooting.  Why is Corey Joseph starting?  Hopefully, Joseph is getting showcased ahead of the trade deadline.

Look, I hate to be in the position of defending Killian Hayes.  In no way did I ever want the Pistons to draft him.  Halliburton was the obvious, hands down choice.  

Having said that, I hate to see the kid getting scape-goated for another miserable season.  The Pistons were terrible long before Hayes came to Detroit. This is not his fault.  

Piston fans need to get a grip on reality.  What did they think tanking was going to be like?...all fun and games?

[Murph]

It finally dawned on me what Casey’s obsession is with Lyles and Diallo. They all played at Kentucky. I can’t think of a better reason to play anyone.

[Phil-Good]

If there is no good deal to be made I’m good if Grant stays. He a good player.

What I do want to see is some of the vet guys moved for 2nd round picks or young project guys.

We will see.

[Murph]

Last night Hayes was not the problem. In fact, he had one of his better games. In fact, for the first time in his professional career, he’s beginning to play well. He defends well, he passes well and he takes care of the ball.

He just has to improve his scoring efficiency. As Sparma pointed out, he shoots free throws well, so he has the potential to become a decent shooter. He needs to focus on his 3 point shooting. He needs to work on his 3 point shooting in the off season so that is gets up to a reasonably efficient level (33-35%).

And what’s up with Detroit Pistons fans? They use to be among the most knowledgeable in the NBA. Now they boo Hayes when he’s having a good games, and they booed Drummond when he came back after he got treated poorly and dumped.

Detroit Pistons fans have been loosing for so long they’ve become bitter, nasty and just down right ignorant.


And the problem last night was that our moron coach started 3 veterans who hopefully won’t even be in the team in a year of two. Earth to Casey: we suck... we’re terrible. We weren’t going to win last night regardless of how many veterans you played. We don’t even want to win. We want to tank.

If Casey weren’t such an idiot, he would have started Lee and Hayes in the backcourt, to give them experience for the future when we might not actually be horrendously bad.

[Phil-Good]

I know a good trade is hard to pull off but Detroit has to get this done. J.Grant is a really nice player who Detroit had to flip and get the ship back on course.

I'm not worried about wins but I do need a nice your prospect or two an extra first would be amazing also.

We will see what happens. I expect these 4 guys to be gone. Trey, Joseph, Grant and Kelly. These 4 can help a championship team push for the NBA crown.

I still have my eyes on Chicago, Washington, Sacramento and Memphis. Memphis had 3 first round picks in 2022 draft. Washington has two young forwards and you can add Dinwiddie. Chicago has a first round pick 2022 and Pat Williamson, Sac has a 2022 first, Mitchell and two young bigs that can play.

Let's hope Troy can get it done.

[Sparma]

John Karalis: "Jayson Tatum says Pistons assistant (former C's assistant) Jerome Allen told him at the start of the 3rd quarter that he might as well have put a coach's polo on because he only had 5 points. He said "ok, I got something for you" and then dropped 19 in the quarter"

If that really happened, you're just trying to lose.

Concerning Killian, I agree that he gets gifted too many minutes because he was this regime's first high draft pick (at #7).  I think he should get 10-15 minutes, but more only if he earns them.  I'd think the preceding would put me in partial agreement with Phil.

I'm guessing we also can agree that he's a dedicated defender, already pretty tough there, with the potential to be outstanding as a defender.

I'm also going to defend him beyond that though, even while fully aware of his serious limitations.  

He's at 80.9% this year (81.3% career) from the stripe, so I don't know why Piston fans would be heckling him as FT shooter, unless they're using him being at the line as an opportunity to call him out for deficiencies elsewhere.

Probably less well-known is that he's shooting .383 on corner threes this year, way, way up from last year's .167 from there.  He's also, smartly, taking a much higher % of his shots from there.

Also, by my eye test, as well as Kelser's observations, he's showed improvement recently coming off the bench, playing more physically, less timidly, on offense.

And we all know that he's 20 years old.

That limited defense doesn't even bring up his principal strength: his court vision and capacity for outstanding passes.

We all know by now that we should have drafted Tyrese Haliburton rather than him.  That's done though.

I wish, unrealistically, that he could be given the Saben Lee treatment in another way.  If he were a mid-second round pick, like Saben, instead of #7, I think we'd view him as an intriguing, albeit frustrating, project.  That's what he is.  

I'm a Saben fan, and got irked yesterday when, with the game out of hand, 30 y.o. Rodney McGruder (solid player!) comes in rather than Saben, who's off on the G-league roster somewhere.  But I continue to support Killian as an interesting 20 y.o. project, even though he's disappointed bitterly as our #7 pick.

[Phil-Good]

I'm looking at the Boston game. It's 2nd quarter.

The best part of the game so far is the reaction from the Detroit crowd every time Killian Hayes, shoots a air ball, or misses free throws.

This kid is FREAKING TRASH!!

This is the bad part. Hayes might be a player one day but it's going to take Hayes 5 or 6 years to develop into a decent player. He won't last in Detroit that long.

I'm going back to this point. We talked about it early in the year.


HOW in the FUC^^K is Hayes playing over Saben Lee?? How?? Saben Lee is by far a better basketball player. Without any questions at all!!!

How!!

Hayes should be given Saben Lee's treatment. Send him up and down to the G-League. Saben Lee should be gifted Hayes spot. Given the starting spot without earning it. Given the back-up PG position without any effort. I say this is Coach Casey's biggest FUC&&K up. Saben Lee is not seen a fair opportunity at all.

Total Bull SH&IT

[Murph]

I’m sure his injury will hurt him in next weeks rankings, but for this weeks Kia Rookie Ladder, Cunningham ranks #1 for the first time this season.

Nah !!
I bet Cade is the kind of kid who will discover a better way to do something as the result of viewing games from a different perspective, particularly now that Grant & Olynyk are back.

Lemon... agreed. I’m sure CC will be spending his time productively.

In fact, as Phil keeps pointing out, CC seems to be an incredibly positive and motivated human being. He reminds me of Grant Hill that way. It seems as if his parents have done a great job raising him.

[lemonpen]

I’m sure his injury will hurt him in next weeks rankings, but for this weeks Kia Rookie Ladder, Cunningham ranks #1 for the first time this season.

Nah !!
I bet Cade is the kind of kid who will discover a better way to do something as the result of viewing games from a different perspective, particularly now that Grant & Olynyk are back.

[Murph]

I’m sure his injury will hurt him in next weeks rankings, but for this weeks Kia Rookie Ladder, Cunningham ranks #1 for the first time this season.

[Murph]

Is Mo Bamba on the block?   He’s the 7’0 shot blocker and interior defender that we need, if he can stay healthy.

What would it take to get him?  Some combination of Hayes, Diallo, Lyles, JJ, F.Jackson, Garza and a top 10 protected 1st round pick?

For example Hayes and Lyles and a protected 1st?  Or Diallo and Lyles and a protected 1st?

I think I’d do that trade.

[Sparma]

Don: "Diallo really played well in the first half of this game scoring often in the paint. But Diallo has to realize that his future will be secure only if he is willing to develop a more serious attitude relating to defense. He is capable of being an incredible defender but like many other young players, Diallo is not focused on being that guy who can destroy opposing teams just by using his natural gifts. He has exceptional quickness and should be a superior help defender in the paint and on the wing. He should also be a better defensive rebounder because of his quickness and jumping ability. I have not seen the progress yet."

I'm inclined to think that Diallo just got lost in the shuffle yesterday.

But you make an interesting observation about Diallo and defense, Don. I'll confess that I often have a harder time assessing player's D than O, unless they're far out on the spectrum like Rodman and Reggie Jackson (I'm itching to look up the latter's stats but won't).

I agree, Don, that Diallo could be a lot better at D than he is. He has it in him to be outstanding.

I'm going to make a couple of observations about Diallo though, that I guess put me in disagreement with you.

First, I think the main thing holding him back is his erratic shooting. He came in last year shooting very well from distance, but this year he's regressed, and sits below his career average. If he could shoot league average (circa 35%) from 3, I'd think of him as a full-fledged, and cheaper, replacement for Jerami. He's not there (yet).

Secondly, my eye test tells me that Diallo's a pretty solid defender right now. Further, defensive stats back me up. Diallo's played like 100 minutes more than Grant so far, and has a little bit better defensive win share than Jerami (both score positive). Also, Hami has a positive defensive plus minus rating. Without putting a ton of weight on that, it's worth noting that Diallo does better on that count than does Jerami, who has a negative test. The numbers suggest that Jerami's fallen a bit short of his defensive rep with Detroit. I'd guess that may be because he's exerting so much energy on offense.

[Murph]

Don...yes, I love the way Domantas Sabonis plays.   He reminds me a little of his father, who l loved watching with the Blazers.  I think Sarvydis was the best passing big man that I ever saw, and Domantas has inherited much of his father’s high BBIQ, and passing abilities.

Sabonis falls into the new category of Euros who can do it all, like Doncic and Jokic.  The Pistons would be lucky to include him in their rebuilding program, but I can’t imagine the Pacers will really let him go.  And if they do, the asking price will be sky high.

Earlier, I proposed a trade for Turner, who I also think is on the block. It’s not that I like Turner better than Sabonis, it’s just that I think acquiring him would be much more realistic.  

And what’s up with Rick Carlisle?  He must be a real prick.  Apparently, Bill Davidson couldn’t stand him.  And he feuded with Dennis Smith Jr and Doncic in Dallas, until he had to resign.  And now he’s trying to run Sabonis and Turner out of town in his first year as the Pacers coach.

[cool breeze]

New Orleans looks like it should be a pretty good team if/when Zion makes it back.  Jonas Valanciunas is a skilled, huge, center, Brandon Ingram's a terrific scorer, and they've got nice supplementary pieces.  I hadn't even heard of Jose Alvarado who had several killer passes to the inside against us.

Jerami Grant looked good in his return.  I too am worried with fit because, by no coincidence, Bey, Cade, and Diallo have all played better in his absence.  He had four big collisions (winning only one of the calls); I don't think that's a sustainable way to play for him, and don't want to give him the 112 mil he's rumored to want.  Good player, nice guy.  Trade him already!

Hip pointer suggests to me more of a painful injury, than one with lasting consequences.  Fingers crossed.  Didn't see what caused Cade's injury.

An observation pertaining to coaching: Kelser kept praising Diallo (6 for , including saying something like: "they have no answer for him now." Yet he clocks in at 16:37 playing time. Not optimal!  True, he's an erratic shooter, but with Jerami out, he's earned a prominent role, I would have thought.

Finally, something pertaining to owners.  Brian Flores is bringing a racial discrimination suit against the NFL and three teams.  Within that suit, he also charges the following, that I think will get a lot of attention: "According to Flores, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, the billionaire real-estate developer, instructed him to “tank” as many games as he could during the 2019 season, dangling a $100,000 reward for each loss. Flores said he refused to do so, which created a clash with Ross and team management...."

(https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins-owner-dangled-100-000-for-losing-games-ex-coach-brian-flores-says/ar-AATnJWk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531)

We've known about tanking, but I don't think we've had such direct evidence from the inside.

And with last night’s loss, Dwane Casey has the dubious distinction of becoming the losingest coach in Detroit Pistons history. Casey has now lost 177 games, which puts him 1 ahead of our last miserable coach, Stan Van Gundy.  You gotta hand it to Gores, he might not hire good coaches, but he sure sticks with the bad coaches.  

Only HOFer Chuck Daley has more losses (271).  But Daley also has the most wins (467) and a .633 winning percentage, giving Daley the distinction of being the best coach in Pistons history, hands down.

And not only has Casey lost 177 games in 4 years in Detroit, he also sports a .345 winning percentage and his winning percentage had declined every year he’s been here.  

I know he’s a nice guy and all that, but at some point don’t we actually need a competent coach who knows what he’s doing?


And speaking of Gores, he’s another idiot.  He’s had 1 winning season since he bought the team 11 years ago.  He makes Casey look like a genius.

Sparma that was a good assessment of the game. I would add that the Pistons interior defense was horrible featuring Kelly O and Stewart. Beef Stew has to realize that his worth will never depend on shooting 3s or becoming a better mid range shooter. If he stays in the league at all he will need to show that he is a fierce paint protector, shot blocker and an incredible offensive and defensive rebounder. That hasn't happened. He is often standing straight up instead of getting a body on opponents who seem to always out smart Beef Stew on their offensive glass. Stewart does not have enough spring to get high enough from a jump stop maybe because his legs are not bent enough. It is just not good enough to build a big upper body. You have to be smart and smart quick jumper who can get up really high if you are Stewart's size and are trying to play center in the NBA. Kelly O looked so awkward playing defense in the paint that he must have been embarrassed in this game. He looked out of sync in many areas. Lyles is not a center but out performs both Beef Stew and Kelly O most of the time.

The other observation that has me puzzled is why Cory Joseph is still in the starting lineup instead of Frank Jackson. Cunningham plays off the ball most of the time when Joseph is on the court. Cory has been playing really good basketball of late but how does this idea fit with a team trying to determine which young players will be part of a future playoff team. Why is Lee just sitting on the bench game after game? This is the season to master the art of TEAM CHEMISTRY and see what you have relating to the young players on this roster. This game really put a damper on everything relating to that important goal of improving team chemistry on the court. You are so right about Grant's tendency to try to drive through 3 players and ending up on the hardwood potentially destroying his trade value. Maybe this was a showcase game for the Piston's GM. Now trade Grant and Cory Joseph before the deadline. Both players could be used to get another first round pick and maybe a center. I would not be opposed to trading Stewart now if there is any interest but I am sure other NBA teams do not see what our GM must believe.

Killian Hayes is improving and has shown that he can become a lock down defender. He is limiting his turnovers while running the offense too. Now it is time for him to make the easy shots he keeps missing. He sets himself up well but then has not been able to finish. That should be an easy fix.

Diallo really played well in the first half of this game scoring often in the paint. But Diallo has to realize that his future will be secure only if he is willing to develop a more serious attitude relating to defense. He is capable of being an incredible defender but like many other young players, Diallo is not focused on being that guy who can destroy opposing teams just by using his natural gifts. He has exceptional quickness and should be a superior help defender in the paint and on the wing. He should also be a better defensive rebounder because of his quickness and jumping ability. I have not seen the progress yet.

Good comments on the coaching situation Murph. I What do you think about the idea of Sabonis becoming a Pistons. I have always liked Sabonis. Haven't seen him play this season though and but based on past seasons I think he is a better fit for the Pistons than Grant.

[Sparma]

New Orleans looks like it should be a pretty good team if/when Zion makes it back. Jonas Valanciunas is a skilled, huge, center, Brandon Ingram's a terrific scorer, and they've got nice supplementary pieces. I hadn't even heard of Jose Alvarado who had several killer passes to the inside against us.

Jerami Grant looked good in his return. I too am worried with fit because, by no coincidence, Bey, Cade, and Diallo have all played better in his absence. He had four big collisions (winning only one of the calls); I don't think that's a sustainable way to play for him, and don't want to give him the 112 mil he's rumored to want. Good player, nice guy. Trade him already!

Hip pointer suggests to me more of a painful injury, than one with lasting consequences. Fingers crossed. Didn't see what caused Cade's injury.

An observation pertaining to coaching: Kelser kept praising Diallo (6 for , including saying something like: "they have no answer for him now." Yet he clocks in at 16:37 playing time. Not optimal! True, he's an erratic shooter, but with Jerami out, he's earned a prominent role, I would have thought.

Finally, something pertaining to owners. Brian Flores is bringing a racial discrimination suit against the NFL and three teams. Within that suit, he also charges the following, that I think will get a lot of attention: "According to Flores, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, the billionaire real-estate developer, instructed him to “tank” as many games as he could during the 2019 season, dangling a $100,000 reward for each loss. Flores said he refused to do so, which created a clash with Ross and team management...."

(https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins-owner-dangled-100-000-for-losing-games-ex-coach-brian-flores-says/ar-AATnJWk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531)

We've known about tanking, but I don't think we've had such direct evidence from the inside.

And with last night’s loss, Dwane Casey has the dubious distinction of becoming the losingest coach in Detroit Pistons history. Casey has now lost 177 games, which puts him 1 ahead of our last miserable coach, Stan Van Gundy.  You gotta hand it to Gores, he might not hire good coaches, but he sure sticks with the bad coaches.  

Only HOFer Chuck Daley has more losses (271).  But Daley also has the most wins (467) and a .633 winning percentage, giving Daley the distinction of being the best coach in Pistons history, hands down.

And not only has Casey lost 177 games in 4 years in Detroit, he also sports a .345 winning percentage and his winning percentage had declined every year he’s been here.  

I know he’s a nice guy and all that, but at some point don’t we actually need a competent coach who knows what he’s doing?


And speaking of Gores, he’s another idiot.  He’s had 1 winning season since he bought the team 11 years ago.  He makes Casey look like a genius.

[Oracle]

My concern is that when he's here he WILL be the focus of the team, which is great if it gets him traded, but bad if he's chewing up Cade's time!

I'd rather lose and have Cade, Bey & company get experience and their numbers than see Grant work us for that max salary he wants.

I love Grant, but I'll love him even more if he can get to a contender and get lucky. Thanks for your service, but get the f**k out of dodge. 

ROY:
Cade is my choice, but I'm biased. I think Mobley is a real stud and great find! Most teams would still pick Cade at #1 unless their needs drove them to Mobley.

Which reminds me of the dude that said we made a huge mistake because he should have been #1 overall... what's that cats name, cough, cough Jalen Green, LOL!

Making no noise in this league!

My concerns about keeping Grant are that like Bey, he is basically a SF.   So we are undersized if both start.  Also, he is very high usage and not very efficient.  I’d rather have the ball in CC’s hands, not Grants.  Also, for whatever reason, Bey plays much much better when Grant is not in the lineup.

Also, I don’t want to extend Grant’s contract and pay him $133 million over the next 5 years.  That money might be used to help lure a real All Star here.  

And finally, his age doesn’t match up with the rest of the Pistons developing stars, CC and Bey. By the time Grant’s contract extension is over, he’ll be 33.  

I thought we were rebuilding this team from the bottom up through the draft.  How does keeping a 28 years old, high usage, not very efficient, almost All Start fit into that model???

Frankly, I’m a little surprised there is any market for Grant at all.  At least we don’t have to use a draft choice to move him, like Weaver did Plumlee.  

TRADE GRANT NOW.  If Bagley and a protected 1st is all we can get, do it!  (Just don’t take that Laker offer.)

And much of the same reasoning holds true of Olynyk.  Trade them ifwe can trade these guys for anything of value.

I don’t want to watch these guys and I don’t want them marginally improving our record and worsening our draft position.


Cade certainly outplayed Mobley last night.  If CC continues on this trajectory, he’ll win ROK.  He plays a much, much more difficult position than Mobley, and his leaning curve is steep.  He’s getting better and better every week.

[Oracle]

When he went down, the Pelicans started their rise! He has a right hip pointer.

What is a hip pointer:
A hip pointer is a deep bruise to the ridge of bone on the upper outside of your hip, called the iliac crest. It's often a result of a direct blow to the hip or a hard fall. Hip pointer symptoms include pain and tenderness. Recovery from the injury usually involves taking a break from activity until it heals.

How long does it take to recover from a hip pointer?
Rest, ice, and compression to the hip as soon as possible are recommended. “Recovery time from a hip pointer is between one to three weeks,” said Chad Smith, M.D., orthopedic surgeon with Norton Orthopedic Institute and sports medicine physician with Norton Sports

[Murph]

And with last night’s loss, Dwane Casey has the dubious distinction of becoming the losingest coach in Detroit Pistons history. Casey has now lost 177 games, which puts him 1 ahead of our last miserable coach, Stan Van Gundy.  You gotta hand it to Gores, he might not hire good coaches, but he sure sticks with the bad coaches.  

Only HOFer Chuck Daley has more losses (271).  But Daley also has the most wins (467) and a .633 winning percentage, giving Daley the distinction of being the best coach in Pistons history, hands down.

And not only has Casey lost 177 games in 4 years in Detroit, he also sports a .345 winning percentage and his winning percentage had declined every year he’s been here.  

I know he’s a nice guy and all that, but at some point don’t we actually need a competent coach who knows what he’s doing?


And speaking of Gores, he’s another idiot.  He’s had 1 winning season since he bought the team 11 years ago.  He makes Casey look like a genius.

[cool breeze]

Cade had difficulty scoring in the first half but otherwise played a smart floor game and was an effective defender. That is what great players do when their shots are not falling. Then Cunningham was incredible in the 2nd half in every respect. Those amazing 3 point shots were the frosting on the cake. His ability to set up teammates, play winning defense and stamina is so sweet to watch. Bey as usual was a very key player again. He is so strong in the paint now and his long distance shot release reminds me of a professional golfer with a short backswing. His body and foot positioning before releasing his shots shows how much hard work he has put in to his game. Please management make sure you do not blow it relating to Bey relating to his contract.

The Cleveland game brings out more observations that provide hope for the future. Killian Hayes played really strong defense in the 2nd half. His baseline drive and dish to Stewart for an easy layup in crunch time was outstanding. I like Killian's size and his quickness. I have been critical of his play this season relating to his tendency to create turnovers and wild contested shots along with drives into the paint and leaving his feet with no option to either shoot it or pass it. He still makes those mistakes but if Hayes can develop a go to mid range shot and get to his comfortable spots on the floor Hayes might become another key player for this team. I like the fact that he is now coming off the bench more while Cade is resting. Hayes might develop more confidence as the leader of the 2nd unit.

Lyles had a nice 2nd half in this game. Everything about his game keeps improving. He is battling on the boards more and has a nice all around offensive game where he can put the ball on the floor and score while also hitting mid range and 3 point shots.

Actually Cory Joseph has been playing well but it is clear that Frank Jackson needs to be in the starting lineup now. Frank is a tough player who is always a scoring threat and the starting unit struggles in the first quarter of most games. The only other criticism relating to the coaching staff would be their complete benching of Saben Lee. Lee has shown how effective he can be if he is given regular minutes. He plays well when he gets to be on the floor with Cade. What is in his future with the Pistons? It seems that management has written him off. That is a big mistake in my humble opinion. Also wouldn't it be smarter to send both Lee and Garza to the affiliate team so they can stay in good physical and mental condition. Just sitting there on the bench for so many games kills timing, conditioning and confidence. Please do the right thing Mr. Casey. Detroit needs to get another superior draft pick next summer. However, it appears that our Pistons are going to win a few more games than many people thought possible. Anyway fantastic win Piston players and coaches. This year fans can see what can happen when we have unselfish hard working basketball players who play for the Pistons and care about playing the right way. They have leaders on this team with Cunningham and Bey. Leadership by actual people who are on the floor playing the game is so key to winning in the NBA. Great job!!

[Sponsored content]