The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

[Murph]

Nice win at home against another rebuilding team.  There was a lot to be hopeful about and a lot to be concerned about, but a win is a win.


The Good:
Coming back from a 15 point 1st quarter deficit.
Bojan’s shooting.  60% from the 3 point line.
Cade’s assists.  10 with only 3 turnovers.
Stewart getting to the line.  7 of 8 from the FT line.
Ivey’s overall game.  19 pts, 4 asts, 3 rbds, 3 stls in his 1st NBA game.  The kid’s going    to be a superstar.
Duren’s rebounding.  10 rebounds with 0 PFs.
Joseph could not miss a shot.  He was perfect.


The Bad:
Allowing the Magic to reel off 19 unanswered points.
Hayes still needs to improve his shooting.   He did a lot of things well, but 1-9 is unacceptable.  If he can’t shoot, then shoot less!!!
Duren’s turnovers.  


The Ugly:
Knox.  What does this guy do well?  Why is he even on the court, on the team, in the NBA???   I know, I know...he went to Kentucky.  I can’t wait for Burks, Bagley or Livers to get healthy so i never have to watch this guy again.

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https://detroitsportstalk.forumotion.com/viewtopic.php?t=181

[Oracle]

Excellent post, and you made some crucial points.

1. Hayes: I agree, we shouldn't give up on him, he's a plus defender, but all teams need somebody that can come off the bench & defend.

2. Ivey: He's a total speed merchant, but you're right, he's going to be a LOTT better by mid-season. His speed will increase & he'll know the opposition a lot better as well.

3. Duren: His future is bright! Just like with Ivey, he's going to get faster & smarter by midseason. In 3 years, I hope to see some Big Ben comparisons!

4. Diallo: I hesitate to call him a sleeper, but the way he's no longer featured, some may forget what he's capable of. In a long season, he'll get his chance.

5. Bogdanovic: We won't miss Grant on the offensive end at all, Bogdanovic more than fills those shoes. Sure he's not even close to Grant defensively, but frankly, we don't need him to be.

Finally, we have a lot to improve on. We can't start games like we did against good teams, or we're going to be TOAST!

Our defense needs to get a lot better! It did pick up as the game went on, but a better effort early could make a world of difference.

But it was the first game and I'm sure everyone is aware of the work we must do to be competitive. Tough game coming up in New York!

[Sparma]

Ivey looks like a star in the making.  Add Duren at 13 and Weaver had a remarkable draft, again.  He's challenged my sense that teams don't routinely beat the consensus over a period of years (except for his very first draft pick, Killian at 7, who may still come good, yesterday notwithstanding).

I'm really happy with the Ivey pick.

Remember that there was a bunch of debate about the best order of these picks that ended up going: 4) Keegan Murray (Sac), 5) Ivey (us), 6) Mathurin (Indy), 7) Shaedon Sharpe (Port).

Each team can feel good about their pick so far (even though Murray, who looked good in preseason, missed the opener.

Extreme overreaction upon seeing a copy of minutes of highlights of Sharpe: that kid looks like he could become a superstar.  He hit 3-3 from distance, tempting me to make the dramatic prediction that his 3 pt% will be higher than Cade's this year (as well as our other 2 young guards).  And I think Cade's will go up this year, after hitting 40%+ his last year in college.  Cade shot 31.4%; I see him getting up to 34% or so this season.  Sharpe's barely played for some time though, and he's superyoung, so I'm trying to put the brakes on myself.  His shot from distance is a thing of beauty though.

That's not even mentioning the top 3, who of course will also be fun to follow.

The '22 draft was hyped, for sure, but it may well live up to the hype.

[cool breeze]

The team started out looking exactly like they did in pre season games. The Magic guarded everyone but Stewart daring him to shoot low percentage 3 point shots. He didn't disappoint the opposing coach and missed several 3s when the team needed to get a higher percentage shot to avoid getting blown out. Then of all things Casey must have drawn up a play for Stewart to shoot that baseline 3 and damn if he didn't make it. Maybe that is not what Casey wanted. I can't imagine why he would do that but Beef Stew sure looked confident as the shot was launched. The team should have put the game away much sooner but turnovers and bad decision making allowed Orlando to make the game closer.

The Pistons have the potential to be an elite team. They have some really talented players who have not yet reached their full potential. The most important thing of all is how hard everyone plays the game. Duren changed this game after about 3 minutes of being on the court. Before that the Magic players were able to attack the paint and get whatever they wanted. And if their shot missed 2nd and 3rd opportunities were available. Duren made a terrific play in the 2nd quarter when he was knocked down in the paint on defense after a shot was missed. There was a loose ball and Duren got up and then managed to beat Bol Bol to the basketball and then look up court and threw a perfect pass down the sideline to Cory Joseph. Duren then ran full blast to the opposite and and received an outstanding pass from Cory and then jammed the ball through the net with authority. We haven't had a center like that since Ben Wallace. This 18 year old man has that gift that only a very few big men ever get. He is hungry. He wants more to eat 5o fest on Piston opponents. This is the Pistons starting center. I don't know how long it will take but if Duren can summon the amount of energy he showed in this game he should be rewarded soon. Stewart could be even more effective coming off the bench. But I will say this about Stewart. He sure played more effective defense in the 4th quarter than he showed in the first quarter. He was making some great defensive plays in crunch time.

I hadn't seen much of Ivey in the past other than the Pistons last pre season game. I didn't expect much from him and was only hoping that he wouldn't hurt the team on defense and with turnovers on offense. What a shocker to see this man play basketball. He is so strong-fast-clever-determined and unafraid. Some of his drives into the paint were beyond fantastic. He is about 40% as effective as he will become after the All Star break. I love his attitude and the fact that he loves Detroit and the piston franchise too. Amazing that we got perhaps the best player in this last draft at number 5.

Don't get down on Killian Hayes or Diallo for that matter. Both of those players are outstanding athletes. Hayes actually deflected a lot of balls on defense and had that great steal where he slapped the ball away and into Duran's hands. Again Duren showed that he is a quick thinker and immediately threw the ball back to Killian who scored on the break. Hayes can become a great defender. He is a creative passer and can break down the defense. He has good size too. His mid range game should get a lot better as the season moves forward. Right now he is trying to play really fast and is rushing his shots. Settle down Killian because you have the potential of becoming a real hero for the Pistons. The mental mistakes seem to be caused from lack of confidence. He needs to believe in himself and get his feet set with the jump stop before releasing his jump shot. Coaches need to help Killian change his 3 point shot release.

Hats off the Cory Joseph! I wrote some negative comments and will now eat my words regarding Cory. He is the stabilizing force at times when thinking about the players who get time in the backcourt. He played exceptionally well in the 2nd quarter to help the Pistons avoid getting down by 20 points or more. His shot making ability when no other teammate can score at all should be noticed. We need Cory Joseph just maybe keep him fresh and avoid playing him for long stretches.

Finally the MVP of this game goes to none other than Bogdanovic. I have always loved this guy. He is such a smart player. He missed some early shots in this game and then really showed Piston fans why a lot of people are excited about this Piston team. He hit shots from beyond the 3 point line and showed how he can create and make contested shots from midrange. Fantastic job Mr. weaver. How deadly will this team be once we get all of our currently wounded vets back in action??

I Corrected my post in hopes that Jalen Duren will forgive me for mis spelling his last name. Sorry Jalen.

[cool breeze]

The team started out looking exactly like they did in pre season games. The Magic guarded everyone but Stewart daring him to shoot low percentage 3 point shots. He didn't disappoint the opposing coach and missed several 3s when the team needed to get a higher percentage shot to avoid getting blown out. Then of all things Casey must have drawn up a play for Stewart to shoot that baseline 3 and damn if he didn't make it. Maybe that is not what Casey wanted. I can't imagine why he would do that but Beef Stew sure looked confident as the shot was launched. The team should have put the game away much sooner but turnovers and bad decision making allowed Orlando to make the game closer.

The Pistons have the potential to be an elite team. They have some really talented players who have not yet reached their full potential. The most important thing of all is how hard everyone plays the game. Duran changed this game after about 3 minutes of being on the court. Before that the Magic players were able to attack the paint and get whatever they wanted. And if their shot missed 2nd and 3rd opportunities were available. Duran made a terrific play in the 2nd quarter when he was knocked down in the paint on defense after a shot was missed. There was a loose ball and Durn got up and then managed to beat Bol Bol to the basketball and then look up court and threw a perfect pass down the sideline to Cory Joseph. Duran then ran full blast to the opposite and and received an outstanding pass from Cory and then jammed the ball threw the net with authority. We haven't had a center like that since Ben Wallace. This 18 year old man has that gift that only a very few big men ever get. He is hungry. He wants more to eat 5o fest on Piston opponents. This is the Pistons starting center. I don't know how long it will take but if Duran can summon the amount of energy he showed in this game he should be rewarded soon. Stewart could be even more effective coming off the bench. But I will say this about Stewart. He sure played more effective defense in the 4th quarter than he showed in the first quarter. He was making some great defensive plays in crunch time.

I hadn't seen much of Ivey in the past other than the Pistons last pre season game. I didn't expect much from him and was only hoping that he wouldn't hurt the team on defense and with turnovers on offense. What a shocker to see this man play basketball. He is so strong-fast-clever-determined and unafraid. Some of his drives into the paint were beyond fantastic. He is about 40% as effective as he will become after the All Star break. I love his attitude and the fact that he loves Detroit and the piston franchise too. Amazing that we got perhaps the best player in this last draft at number 5.

Don't get down on Killian Hayes or Diallo for that matter. Both of those players are outstanding athletes. Hayes actually deflected a lot of balls on defense and had that great steal where he slapped the ball away and into Duran's hands. Again Duran showed that he is a quick thinker and immediately threw the ball back to Killian who scored on the break. Hayes can become a great defender. He is a creative passer and can break down the defense. He has good size too. His mid range game should get a lot better as the season moves forward. Right now he is trying to play really fast and is rushing his shots. Settle down Killian because you have the potential of becoming a real hero for the Pistons. The mental mistakes seem to be caused from lack of confidence. He needs to believe in himself and get his feet set with the jump stop before releasing his jump shot. Coaches need to help Killian change his 3 point shot release.

Hats off the Cory Joseph! I wrote some negative comments and will now eat my words regarding Cory. He is the stabilizing force at times when thinking about the players who get time in the backcourt. He played exceptionally well in the 2nd quarter to help the Pistons avoid getting down by 20 points or more. His shot making ability when no other teammate can score at all should be noticed. We need Cory Joseph just maybe keep him fresh and avoid playing him for long stretches.

Finally the MVP of this game goes to none other than Bogdanovic. I have always loved this guy. He is such a smart player. He missed some early shots in this game and then really showed Piston fans why a lot of people are excited about this Piston team. He hit shots from beyond the 3 point line and showed how he can create and make contested shots from midrange. Fantastic job Mr. weaver. How deadly will this team be once we get all of our currently wounded vets back in action??

[lemonpen]

Who didn't know Casey would draw up a three point attempt?

[Oracle]

Hayes damn near shot us outta this thing.  Forced misses.

Hayes more than picked up from all his season to put up some PUTRID numbers, and horrible percentages!

I feel sorry for the young man, I'm sure he's worked hard on his shot, but tonight wasn't his night 

[lemonpen]

Hayes damn near shot us outta this thing.  Forced misses.

[lemonpen]

Hayes damn near shot us outta this thing. Forced misses.

[Oracle]

Oh yes it was!!!

I like our rookies.

Yes, it was at home, but man, we generally lose games like this!!! We got scoring from places I never expected, our rookies, and they looked like Pro's!

[Sparma]

Ivey and Duren are the real deal, and maybe straightaway.

Ivey with a lightning fast drive pass the basket, finishing with his off hand on the reverse lay up.  Careless with his dribble against two defenders at the end, but lots of good plays.

At 18, Duren already knows how to put his formidable physique to good use.  Kelser and Blaha said he was the youngest Piston ever to get a double-double.

My son is sitting in my seats while I sit in Orlando watching the Magic broadcast.  Quinton Richardson  and Brian Hill are saying exactly the same things Greg Kelser says.

[lemonpen]

I like our rookies.

[lemonpen]

My son is sitting in my seats while I sit in Orlando watching the Magic broadcast. Quinton Richardson and Brian Hill are saying exactly the same things Greg Kelser says.

[Sparma]

Thanks Murph!! Not sure how to signal genuinely laughing out loud anymore.

Yeah, I thought about boxing you out in turn last year, just to abide by the principles of good rebounding and strategy, but stayed put. I'm doing the same this year.

Nate Silver's start in politics did come from his uncanny accuracy in predicting 50 state elections as Anonymous, but, yes, I remember 538 still seeing Hillary with a 70% of winning on the evening of the 2016 election.

I'm confident their 23 win prediction is low, an overreaction to a miserable preseason. At the same time, that preseason does have me wondering if my 30 is overly optimistic. Someone might be wise to box me out this year (Wise, if you're out there, that's an invitation!). I'm staying put though.

I’m not sure why 538 is taken as gospel.  I have never read a thorough review of their track record, but it cannot be good for either politics or sports.  IMO, 23 wins and 29th out of 30 teams seems way too low.

That said, if I hadn’t done it last year, I’d box you out again by changing my prediction from 32 wins to 29 wins.     But I just can’t do that to you 2 years in a row.


Once we finally get all that dead weight off the books next year, including expiring contracts of some of our vets who are still rostered, then we’ll have something like $75 million to spend in free agency.

If I were Weaver, I’d spend a portion of that money extending our own young players like Bey and Stewart.

Freep: "Walker joins DeAndre Jordan ($7.8 million), Dewayne Dedmon ($2.9 million) and Zhaire Smith ($1.1 million) as players general manager Troy Weaver and the Pistons are paying not to play for them this season, accounting for $21 million of the league's $123.7 million salary cap, or 17%."

As I understand it, Tom Gores would have been the only Piston financial beneficiary of buying out Kemba because his 9.2 mil salary still would have, and does, count in full against the Pistons' payroll.  And didn't Gores get 4 mil in that deal with the Knicks, so that he's sitting pretty.  It's sad for Kemba, who has had an excellent career, and who seems like a good guy judging off of a long interview I heard.  He'll probably still land somewhere, once injuries hit.

Beyond that, having 17% of the salary cap seems unusually high, especially in that it's broken up into 4 players.  Once we're really, really trying to win we won't be able to afford that level of dead money.  I guess the silver lining is that our books should look beautiful heading into next summer.

[cool breeze]

Just one thought before the team lines up to start the season. Please don't listen to the coaching staff if they are insisting that you shoot at least 50 three point shots a game. You just can't win that way.

[Murph]

I’m not sure why 538 is taken as gospel.  I have never read a thorough review of their track record, but it cannot be good for either politics or sports.  IMO, 23 wins and 29th out of 30 teams seems way too low.

That said, if I hadn’t done it last year, I’d box you out again by changing my prediction from 32 wins to 29 wins.     But I just can’t do that to you 2 years in a row.


Once we finally get all that dead weight off the books next year, including expiring contracts of some of our vets who are still rostered, then we’ll have something like $75 million to spend in free agency.

If I were Weaver, I’d spend a portion of that money extending our own young players like Bey and Stewart.

Freep: "Walker joins DeAndre Jordan ($7.8 million), Dewayne Dedmon ($2.9 million) and Zhaire Smith ($1.1 million) as players general manager Troy Weaver and the Pistons are paying not to play for them this season, accounting for $21 million of the league's $123.7 million salary cap, or 17%."

As I understand it, Tom Gores would have been the only Piston financial beneficiary of buying out Kemba because his 9.2 mil salary still would have, and does, count in full against the Pistons' payroll.  And didn't Gores get 4 mil in that deal with the Knicks, so that he's sitting pretty.  It's sad for Kemba, who has had an excellent career, and who seems like a good guy judging off of a long interview I heard.  He'll probably still land somewhere, once injuries hit.

Beyond that, having 17% of the salary cap seems unusually high, especially in that it's broken up into 4 players.  Once we're really, really trying to win we won't be able to afford that level of dead money.  I guess the silver lining is that our books should look beautiful heading into next summer.

[Sparma]

Freep: "Walker joins DeAndre Jordan ($7.8 million), Dewayne Dedmon ($2.9 million) and Zhaire Smith ($1.1 million) as players general manager Troy Weaver and the Pistons are paying not to play for them this season, accounting for $21 million of the league's $123.7 million salary cap, or 17%."

As I understand it, Tom Gores would have been the only Piston financial beneficiary of buying out Kemba because his 9.2 mil salary still would have, and does, count in full against the Pistons' payroll. And didn't Gores get 4 mil in that deal with the Knicks, so that he's sitting pretty. It's sad for Kemba, who has had an excellent career, and who seems like a good guy judging off of a long interview I heard. He'll probably still land somewhere, once injuries hit.

Beyond that, having 17% of the salary cap seems unusually high, especially in that it's broken up into 4 players. Once we're really, really trying to win we won't be able to afford that level of dead money. I guess the silver lining is that our books should look beautiful heading into next summer.

[Sparma]

538 projects them for a 23-59 record, better than only the Rockets with a projected 19 wins.

I know it's been a bad preseason, including a significant injury, but that strikes me as an overreaction. I'm not a betting man, but I'm quite confident the Pistons will win more than 23.

Earlier this off-season, Vegas had the Pistons' over/under at 26.5. After the Bogdanovich trade, the number crept up to 29.5, and I made a 30 wins prediction.

I'm sticking with that, partly just because I want to stick with my pick, partly because a lot of good things are being underplayed now.

Cunningham's the real deal, even if the preseason hasn't borne that out. I expect his shooting to improve, and Killian's and Stewart's too. I also expect the added level of aggression to the basket that we saw from Killian to continue. Bey's shown flashes of stardom, and I expect him to have a steadier, and better, season than last year. Ivey's a future star, and he'll make it difference in spacing this year, even if combined with rookie foibles. Duren looks ready to contribute, at least as a rebounder, even if he's not able to stay on the floor long due to foul troubles. Grant drew a lot of defensive attention, and he'll be missed, but we seem to have greatly improved our shooting from distance with Burks and Bogdanovich (Olynyk could shoot but had trouble staying on the floor). Noel stands to add a dimension as defensive center we haven't had in a while. Bagley should continue to be a nice target for Cade when he comes back (sooner than initially expected).

The only way I see us getting to 23 or below is if we get off to a crummy start and jettison a bunch of useful vets. Even if that happened, it would be so bad if that resulted in Casey being terminated and getting the draft odds that go with having the second worst odds in the league. In the meantime, I'll stick with thinking 538's overreacted.

[cool breeze]

Lee has been waived by the Suns. Based on the play of the Piston guards last night, Lee might be a breath of fresh air. Wouldn't it be better to move Cory Joseph and give his minutes to Lee? He is younger and has great scoring potential and is familiar with the current Piston players and coaches. I am so tired of watching Cory Joseph. He starts games off with some scoring power like last night and then after playing for awhile the shots don't fall, he gets beat on defense and turns the ball over because he over penetrates in the paint with no plan. The sad thing is Joseph came in off the bench last night and provided a spark that the starting guards didn't have. Morant really stood out as a true first tier type NBA player. No Piston guard stood out like that so the jury is still out as to if the Pistons finally have a really good backcourt. Again this is pre season but the guards led the team is sloppy play and weak defense. I thought we had some real leadership among the players. Does this coaching staff have the ear of the players and do they have a handle on the pulse of this group and know what might work best for them? Lets of questions.

[Oracle]

I thought this year he would be ok, but the preseason hasn't given me much confidence!

If we were tanking this season, I wouldn't care, but I wanted to see us at least make the play in tournament.

We've got the weapons and I believe the defense will come around, but Casey is a slow to no learner, and it's hurting us.

Detroit Pistons Popular Pick to Qualify for NBA Playoffs

[cool breeze]

I think Casey is a great baby sitter.  I think he’s kind and patient and says all the right things about the players he likes, and the young players love him. I also think he’s the ultimate kiss-ass to Weaver.  

However, when it comes to X’s and O’s, I think he’s zero value added.  I think he is clueless on how to design effective offenses an defenses to respond to in-game situations.

I also think he’s a poor judge of talent, and has favorites and a huge doghouse. Case in point, with Bagley and Noel out, do you think we could use another center...like Garza?  Has anyone checked on how well Garza shot 3 pointers in the pre-season?  67%  I mean why in the world is Buddy Boehiem on the roster and not Garza, except for Casey’s extreme favoritism?

Yes, Casey is a nice guy, but a lousy coach.  This preseason has proved it.  Is there a single player on the team who has improved under Casey’s tutelage, or who is playing up to their potential?  Maybe Braxton Key.

He’s also aging and has a miserable career record.

In order to move forward into contention, the Pistons need better coaching, and the sooner the better.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed by what looks like a lack of organization, intellect and identity.  If this is how we begin the season I really hope Casey's seat begins to heat, and in short order.

Murph you beat me to the punch. If I owned the Pistons and attended the Memphis game, I would have insisted that Weaver fire the entire coaching staff. What type of basic philosophy does this Piston team actually have going into the regular season relating to having a game plan to play both offense and defense?

The offensive philosophy is insane. The Pistons are not blessed with outstanding 3 point shooters and even if they did have that rare supply of players, Casey's offense would not be successful because I cannot see any basic offensive plan that has been installed. Encouraging players to launch up 3 point shots results in laziness. The way to beat Memphis was to run a half court offense with a goal to get a shot as close to the basket as possible. This was especially true when their starting center went out with some type of leg injury. Everyone stands around the perimeter passing the ball around the perimeter until finally somebody shoots a contested 3 point shot. Stewart started the game firing away and missing every shot he took which killed any type of offensive team chemistry. Surprise the Pistons got way behind. The Pistons had no player who presented a threat in the paint or from out to 10 feet from the basket. The passing was very lazy. The team knew they had no chance after the first 5 minutes although they did make runs when the Memphis starters were resting on the bench. Ivey was the only player with the exception of Cory Joseph who tried to break down the defense. He made a lot of mistakes on offense trying to play too fast but for sure he is going to be a really good player once he gets his feet wet which should take at least until the All Star break. As for our big me who were available to play, that area is very scary. Stewart is not good enough to be a starting center on any NBA team that expects end up anywhere outside the lottery. He simply cannot catch the ball. Cade made a few dump offs which should have resulted in easy baskets for Stewart but the ball went off Stewart's hands and out of bounds. The offense is so stupid that if you do have a high percentage experienced shooter playing power forward or small forward they never touch the basketball in Casey's offense. If players come into Casey's system as high IQ players they will soon become low IQ players. I don't how many roster changes take place, the result will be the same - more losing. This was only a pre season game and Cade Cunningham was not really trying to take over the game and maybe that was a good decision on his part. He needs to show everyone that Casey's style will never work. It takes hard work to install a more complex offensive system and get players disciplined enough to run that type of system. It is very easy to just throw out the ball at practice and let the players figure things out. Casey should be fired for how he handled Garza last season. If the Pistons had him now, they could play a complex offensive half court offense featuring more shots inside the 3 point line with Gara always being a threat outside the 3 point line. He was a very effecting screener last season but Casey didn't think that might be important with his infantile offensive philosophy. Everything Murph said is true relating to coaching.

The Piston defensive system makes no sense either. Why are Piston players so spread out and over playing the Memphis players before they had used their dribble. Memphis players had one goal and that is to score in the paint against the Pistons weak paint defense featuring Stewart. Did Casey think the Memphis game plan was to shoot 3s like the Pistons? Why should they when they play games against coaches like Casey? Duran is really raw but should have started in this game. Stewart is undersized for a center. That much was clear in the first 5 minutes of the game. Memphis players were scoring directly over Stewart who is not a gifted jumper from the jump stop. Beef Stew did get some blocks but never when opposing players were directly in front of him. Stewart is an effecting defensive help player and gets blocks that way. When you look at the stats for Stewart not having actually witnessed the game fans would think he was one of the better players for the Pistons overall. He missed a bunch of shots in the first quarter but then made some 3s as the game moved forward. But why would he be the featured player in the offense? Why would he be the guy who is shooting those long low percentage shots? Why wouldn't Stewart be working on his offensive game in the paint more and offensive rebounding? Ivey got in really bad foul trouble as did Duran early in the game. I thought 2 fouls were bogus that were called against Ivey but when he got a bad break he seemed to press too much trying to play too much like Morant. Yet some day he might end up looking a lot like Morant. So If for now Ivey can become an effective defensive player an avoid silly fouls, he can gain a lot more confidence which will help him reduce turnovers on offense. He just needs to continue to play at a high pace but more under control. That will come as he gets his timing down. I see Ivey becoming a really good defender but for this year, he is going to feel the pain of learning the tendencies of starting caliber NBA guards. Bey did not have a solid game on either offense or defense. He seemed a bit slow on defense failing to anticipate screens etc. He needs to rebound the ball better too but i came away thinking Bey looked to be a step slow on defense in this game but then this was a pre season game. I anticipated this would be a big year for Bey but his all around game against Memphis should get him a grade of ( D ). I sure wish the Pistons had drafted Brooks who was one of my favorite all time college players and PAC12 MVP. This is another players the Piston scouts failed to identify as a sure thing.

One final comment has to be mentioned. The Pistons seem to be short of solid guards so much so that Cory Joseph played extensive minutes in the pre season game. This is a time when coaches need learn who they can trust. Looks like Cory Joseph will be Casey's man once again so how can we expect much growth this season? I expected a lot more and got less and came away from this game thinking that the Pistons might get a crack at the number one pick again next summer. By that time Casey will be gone for sure.

[Murph]

I think Casey is a great baby sitter.  I think he’s kind and patient and says all the right things about the players he likes, and the young players love him. I also think he’s the ultimate kiss-ass to Weaver.  

However, when it comes to X’s and O’s, I think he’s zero value added.  I think he is clueless on how to design effective offenses an defenses to respond to in-game situations.

I also think he’s a poor judge of talent, and has favorites and a huge doghouse. Case in point, with Bagley and Noel out, do you think we could use another center...like Garza?  Has anyone checked on how well Garza shot 3 pointers in the pre-season? 67%  I mean why in the world is Buddy Boehiem on the roster and not Garza, except for Casey’s extreme favoritism?

Yes, Casey is a nice guy, but a lousy coach.  This preseason has proved it.  Is there a single player on the team who has improved under Casey’s tutelage, or who is playing up to their potential?  Maybe Braxton Key.

He’s also aging and has a miserable career record.

In order to move forward into contention, the Pistons need better coaching, and the sooner the better.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed by what looks like a lack of organization, intellect and identity.  If this is how we begin the season I really hope Casey's seat begins to heat, and in short order.

[lemonpen]

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed by what looks like a lack of organization, intellect and identity.  If this is how we begin the season I really hope Casey's seat begins to heat, and in short order.

[Murph]

Sparma... that’s an interesting and thought provoking analysis of 3 point shooting.


With Hayes, I think we’re dealing with the dreaded “too small a sample size” of only 3 games.  Plus, it’s preseason, which probably further skews the results.  

Realistically, I think we’ll have to wait 8 or 10 games into the regular season to get an idea of how much Hayes’ shooting has improved.

[Sparma]

He's got it going then, Murph.

The league average for 3's last year was 35.2%.  Killian's career average for 3s is 26.8%.  If he can get up to 32% for the year, I'd be pleased.  

I think he can eventually get up to league average (and beyond!?), but I believe he can make a rotational contribution, given his D and passing, sitting a little below league average.

It's hard to figure out exactly at what percentage of hitting 3s it's to the team's advantage.  On the surface, the numbers seem pretty simple.  Well, maybe not even there.  Last year the league FG% was 40.6%.  What's confusing at once is whether that includes the 3pt% (seems likely), which would mean that the number for 2s alone is higher.

Let's say the league average for 2s alone is 44%, meaning 88 points per 100 attempts.  At that rate, a 3pt% of 30% (that seems quite attainable for Killian) would score 90 points per hundred attempts and be advantageous.

But then the complications just begin.  What about FTs that you earn at a higher rate driving to the basket? And, correspondingly, that leads to getting the opponent into foul trouble.  Also, as Wise used to like to point out, 3s lead to higher rebounding opportunities to the opponent, and more fast break opportunities for them.

On the other hand, reliable 3 shooting breaks down the opponent's D, leading to more baskets inside, the other analytical darling, along with 3s.

It could be broken down more precisely looking at Killian's numbers from various distances in detail.  But for this year, I'd be content with 32% from distance from him (didn't you say something like that a while ago, Murph, maybe giving numbers of 32-33% for Killian?).  That would be quite a jump already.  If he can maintain the preseason levels you cite, unlikely as that seems to me for this season, all the better.  

btw, the last time we won a championship, the league average for 3s was 14.9%!!  I was among those who felt Sheed added a valuable outside threat for us: he shot 31.9% from distance for us (higher with Portland at 34.1).  Sheed's career % from 3 was 33.6%.  That's just about where I think Killian needs to get his career number to have a valuable and long NBA career.

Sparma... after 3 preseason games, Hayes is shooting 44%, including 36% from the 3 point line.  And he’s averaging 12 ppg and 6 apg. His career average for FTs is 78% (think it was 85% in Germany), indicating he's capable of a big shooting jump.



That’s exactly where he needs to be.  If he can consistently put up those numbers, he’ll be a valuable member of the rotation and most improved.

Bagley out for less time than expected.  

Go Duren, go!  Sounds like he's been the one real point of light during pre-season.  I'd love to see him get significant minutes straightaway.

And evidently Killian had himself a night vs OKC.  Revamped shooting form; I'll be curious to see if the improved shooting can hold up.

So Bagley will miss 3-4 weeks with a sprained MCL, which really means 6-7 weeks.  That’s good news...sort of.

Casey should take this opportunity to start Duren at center. There’s no time like the present.

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