It's The Cap Plan Now SMH

[WTF]

There's no cap issues in a massive rebuild    Okay so I'm tickled by this cap discussion because only two days ago there was discussion about this great plan to carry with business as usual.   This capped discussion sound just like all the other issues preventing this team to move forward in a meaningful and productive manner.  

Other funny things was the discussion about Rose or Curry, much rather be talking about upgrading a starting position than replacing Ish as if solving that somehow put this team over the top.   Can't wait for the day my eyes scroll over to the right and one of the headlines read Piston in a Mega Deal Dumps RJ, AD, and BG In Major Rebuilding Effort.     Beside it's only name recognition in play here nothing more, Seth is not turning into Steph and Rose's really do smell like boo! boo!.  

Cap rules well I'm sure there's always a way to circumvent the rules, I'm sure with some creative thinking any thing is possible even exceeding the lux with minimum negative results.   Still don't understand this discussion because you all were just full of certainty that a plan was in place already and that the team is on the right path.  Path to accomplishing what I don't know since all three players will be gone in the next couple of seasons.

What's really funny is how every article I read is about how the team don't want to spend money or can't spend money.  But something else caught me eye in reading these turd articles.  You all do realize this that season is AD final season here anyway.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say AD will opt out that last year of his contract (gut feeling) and move on.   I'm sure his agent is already in his ear on this and selling that idea so really the Pistons need to be trying to trade him this year anyway.  IMO

[Oracle]

Sparma isn't right unless the rules have changed(but that doesn't mean I don't love him ). The key is to NOT get hard capped, which is the case Lemonpen is describing.

The NBA salary cap is somewhat malleable, with various exceptions allowing every team to surpass the $99.093MM threshold when that room is used up. In some cases, teams blow past not only the cap limit, but the luxury-tax limit as well, with clubs like the Cavaliers, Warriors, and Trail Blazers going well beyond that tax line this year.

The NBA doesn’t have a “hard cap” by default, which allows those clubs to build significant payrolls without violating CBA rules. However, there are certain scenarios in which teams can be hard-capped. When a club uses the bi-annual exception, acquires a player via sign-and-trade, or uses more than the taxpayer portion of the mid-level exception, that club will face a hard cap for the remainder of the league year.

When a team becomes hard-capped, it cannot exceed the tax apron at any point during the rest of the league year. Under the new CBA, the tax apron is set at the point $6MM above the luxury tax line. For the 2017/18 league year, the tax line is at $119.266MM, so the apron – and the hard cap – is at $125.266MM.

So far this year, six teams have imposed a hard cap on themselves by using the bi-annual exception, using the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, or acquiring a player via sign-and-trade. Listed below are those six teams, along with their current salary situation. Team salaries are estimations, since not all contracts have been finalized, and we don’t know the exact figures on all those salaries. - https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/nba-teams-with-hard-caps-for-201718.html

Note: That was the 2017/2018 version, here is the 2018/2019 version - https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/nba-teams-with-hard-caps-for-201819.html

[Sparma]

Thanks for your research, Lemonpen.

Sparma is correct.


Summary of CBA.  See rule 20, 25, 35 & 36
Larry Coon NBA Salary Cap FAQ

Long Version
NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement

We can only sign other teams FA up to the space we have under the cap.  We may exceed the cap to re-sign our own FA.

[lemonpen]

Sparma is correct.


Summary of CBA. See rule 20, 25, 35 & 36
Larry Coon NBA Salary Cap FAQ

Long Version
NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement

We can only sign other teams FA up to the space we have under the cap. We may exceed the cap to re-sign our own FA.

[Sparma]

The facts again on on your side! To be continued.

"Wow, we really do see things differently then! Let's bookmark that statement too. Onwards to the next topic." - Sparma

Not really, I know what I'm talking about, I don't have an opinion, facts are facts.

Your confusion is that you've confused the rules that keep you out of the luxury tax problem with them being rules you can't violate and go over the lux tax.

You can spend anything you want on any players you want... PERIOD! You just pay the tax to do so and operate at a loss because the gate and TV money won't cover your folly.

[Oracle]

"Wow, we really do see things differently then! Let's bookmark that statement too. Onwards to the next topic." - Sparma

Not really, I know what I'm talking about, I don't have an opinion, facts are facts.

Your confusion is that you've confused the rules that keep you out of the luxury tax problem with them being rules you can't violate and go over the lux tax.

You can spend anything you want on any players you want... PERIOD! You just pay the tax to do so and operate at a loss because the gate and TV money won't cover your folly.

[Sparma]

Oracle: "BTW, the Lakers and Clippers and damn near any NBA team can and will sign as many MAX contract players as they like... NOT resigning them... so can the Pistons!"


Wow, we really do see things differently then! Let's bookmark that statement too. Onwards to the next topic.

It's just that when you state things like you know something, it's logical to ask you how you know that.

BTW, the Lakers and Clippers and damn near any NBA team can and will sign as many MAX contract players as they like... NOT resigning them... so can the Pistons!


Like Bekins.... moving on!

Beep Beep Beep

[Oracle]

It's just that when you state things like you know something, it's logical to ask you how you know that.

BTW, the Lakers and Clippers and damn near any NBA team can and will sign as many MAX contract players as they like... NOT resigning them... so can the Pistons!


Like Bekins.... moving on!

Beep Beep Beep

[Sparma]

I've given various reasons for thinking there are restrictions, also by citing Langlois, whose statement (that seems pretty clear) you haven't addressed.  Beyond that, I'm not willing to try to track down chapter and verse in the NBA labor agreement statement at this point, but can return to that task as the dreary offseason progresses.  For now, I want to move on, because we don't seem to be getting anywhere.  

So as to avoid (later) confusion: we disagree in that I contend that the Pistons, given their current cap situation, cannot sign a max contract player (from another team) this summer, whereas you say that they can.  

Let's bookmark that disagreement and come back to it.  In the meantime, do let me know when you find a story by a professional journalist discussing the Pistons possibly signing a max contract player (from another team) this summer.  That can get us away from focusing on possible signings of back up PGs!

You keep saying things about what we can and can't do, but I don't understand what you're talking about.

BTW, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. You might have missed my statement that even if we could do this, it makes no financial sense.

Where are you getting this max money issue?

[Oracle]

You keep saying things about what we can and can't do, but I don't understand what you're talking about.

BTW, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. You might have missed my statement that even if we could do this, it makes no financial sense.

Where are you getting this max money issue?

[Sparma]

I'm not saying that the luxury tax has to restrict spending.  As mentioned, there are various ways that you can get into luxury tax area.  What I am saying is that in some cases the rules do prevent certain kinds of signing, such as the Pistons signing a player to a max deal this summer.

It's true that there's no upper limit on in the luxury tax territory -- which I take the rule you cite to be expressing -- IF you're eligible to do such spending according to the negotiated rules referred to.

For instance, Golden State could spent to the high heavens, without an upper limit, in resigning Durant, Klay Thompson, Cousins, and Green because they're eligible to do so according to the rules.  No limit in that sense, as the cited rule indicates.  It doesn't follow, unfortunately, that the Pistons could sign Durant to a max deal this summer, even if he wanted to come. They're not eligible to do so, according to the negotiated cap regulations. I take it that's part of what Langlois' conveying when he refers to a possible choice next summer, rather than this summer. Why delay otherwise, given the owner's keen desire to win straightaway and his stated willingness to spend?

@Sparma: I'm surprised that this is even a question, the logic of having a luxury tax threshold appears to speak for itself, but since you're reluctant to take my word...


@Don: I said no Bullock and didn't mention KCP because we're not looking for SG's, but no, I don't want KCP back either. Just in case you need more, I'm not interested in Morris or the gimpy Bradley either. I would consider Harris, but I'm not overly interested in him either. Of course I'm sure Wise would want Josh Smith back, but it might take drugging this forum, Piston management and every fan to do it 

[Sparma]

Good point there, Don. Someone like Durant just would not come to Detroit this summer. My understanding is also that he just could not.

In MLB, you can freely sign players and just take on a bigger tax burden (and draft related penalties, as with the Red Sox this year dropping ten spots in the draft).

The NBA's different. There are several ways that you can land in the luxury tax territory, but as I understand, the Pistons, for one, don't have the option of just going out and signing someone to a max contract this summer.

If they did, given the keenness of journalists to get clicks, why haven't we seen the first story by a reputable journalist about how the Pistons will offer a max contract to X, now that Gores says he's willing to pay the luxury tax? Why are they trying to excite us about back up guards, when they could be teasing us about max contract players coming this summer? Journalistic scruples? Or have I missed such stories, in spite of spending way too much time reading Pistons' gossip?

Why didn't the Knicks just buy their way out of trouble years ago instead of letting Isiah get a reputation as a poor manager of the cap? Why hasn't Steve Ballmer, with ten times as many billions as Gores, just replenished the team by spending? Why would they even have worried about the cap hit Blake brought when they could have just spent their way back into contention? Unwillingness? But Mark Cuban said years ago he wouldn't be discouraged by the luxury tax. Why then take such an arduous path to rebuilding; surely at some point some stars would have been willing to accept his max offers.

I'm no capobolist, so these are some puzzles for me. If I'm mistaken, then we have greater cause for optimism for the Pistons with their generous owner willing to go into the luxury tax area than I've acknowledged.

Hope you're right, Oracle; that would give them a lot of flexibility.  Don't think that's how it works though.  Consider Langlois's most recent column: "Next summer will look a whole lot different – the Pistons are projected to have enough cap space to pursue a maximum free agent, if they choose...."  I.e., that's not something they could choose to do this summer.  

I don't think that means much of anything now though.  It was recently suggested that the Pistons offer Durant a max deal.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a possibility under league rules, given their cap situation.

Of course they could! Why did you think they had a luxury tax?

They could sign Durant, Butler and Leonard if they wanted to, there's no limit, you just have to pay the luxury tax.

Of course it wouldn't make any financial sense, and they would have to want to come here, but we could do it.

BTW, I don't want Bullock back unless it's at the vets minimum, and then only as a backup, it's time to develop the youngsters, IMO.

How about no more Bullock or Pope?
After reading the discussion relating to NBA star players like Durant or Butler etc. ask yourself the question why in hell would any of the players mentioned decide to play in Detroit? I sure would love to have Leonard and Durant but why even bring the rules up. Those players would never want to play for the Pistons. No way in hell. Maybe they wouldn't mind playing basketball with Blake. He is a legit player. But no way in hell would they want to be on a team that included Andre Drummond. That sounds harsh but that is real. Players know all about AD being the highlight guy who has no idea as to how to function within a team. This would be especially true if he played with players who know how to play and expect that the center they play with would be able to make basic decisions quickly and of course run instead of jog back on defense. The Bucks attached AD as the weak link in the starting unit. They exploited him and blew out the Pistons easily by scoring in the paint while getting uncontested layups. At least Boston players contest shots in the paint even thought they also are getting their asses handed to them by allowing too many easy paint points.

Next season for sure needs to be the season where Casey steps up and shows that he can really coach instead of just sending his high contract players out on the court. I love the way the Bucks owner and their GM and head coach operate. They have made solid decisions on who should be signed and the players who get playing time deserve playing time. How refreshing is that? SVG and Casey do the opposite. Coaches are often weak on being objective relating who can play and who can't. Casey decided to ride Galloway, Smith, and Jackson. He also tried like hell to fit Leuer into the rotation. On the positive side he found room for Brown. Thank God for that. Perhaps the young guys he has are not good enough but how could they have done any worse? Casey played extremely small with small players who had no idea as to how to play defense. He also had no athletic big men who could make up for those small skill players who allowed so much dribble penetration. Coaches need to work hard with Maker or secure another big man if they go small next season and I think we will see the same cast of characters getting most of the minutes. That is the way Casey coaches. That is the way the owner likes it.

Maybe the Pistons will pick off someone like Curry who should help or at least provide some entertainment.

[Oracle]

@Sparma: I'm surprised that this is even a question, the logic of having a luxury tax threshold appears to speak for itself, but since you're reluctant to take my word...


@Don: I said no Bullock and didn't mention KCP because we're not looking for SG's, but no, I don't want KCP back either. Just in case you need more, I'm not interested in Morris or the gimpy Bradley either. I would consider Harris, but I'm not overly interested in him either. Of course I'm sure Wise would want Josh Smith back, but it might take drugging this forum, Piston management and every fan to do it 

[cool breeze]

Hope you're right, Oracle; that would give them a lot of flexibility.  Don't think that's how it works though.  Consider Langlois's most recent column: "Next summer will look a whole lot different – the Pistons are projected to have enough cap space to pursue a maximum free agent, if they choose...."  I.e., that's not something they could choose to do this summer.  

I don't think that means much of anything now though.  It was recently suggested that the Pistons offer Durant a max deal.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a possibility under league rules, given their cap situation.

Of course they could! Why did you think they had a luxury tax?

They could sign Durant, Butler and Leonard if they wanted to, there's no limit, you just have to pay the luxury tax.

Of course it wouldn't make any financial sense, and they would have to want to come here, but we could do it.

BTW, I don't want Bullock back unless it's at the vets minimum, and then only as a backup, it's time to develop the youngsters, IMO.

How about no more Bullock or Pope?
After reading the discussion relating to NBA star players like Durant or Butler etc. ask yourself the question why in hell would any of the players mentioned decide to play in Detroit? I sure would love to have Leonard and Durant but why even bring the rules up. Those players would never want to play for the Pistons. No way in hell. Maybe they wouldn't mind playing basketball with Blake. He is a legit player. But no way in hell would they want to be on a team that included Andre Drummond. That sounds harsh but that is real. Players know all about AD being the highlight guy who has no idea as to how to function within a team. This would be especially true if he played with players who know how to play and expect that the center they play with would be able to make basic decisions quickly and of course run instead of jog back on defense. The Bucks attached AD as the weak link in the starting unit. They exploited him and blew out the Pistons easily by scoring in the paint while getting uncontested layups. At least Boston players contest shots in the paint even thought they also are getting their asses handed to them by allowing too many easy paint points.

Next season for sure needs to be the season where Casey steps up and shows that he can really coach instead of just sending his high contract players out on the court. I love the way the Bucks owner and their GM and head coach operate. They have made solid decisions on who should be signed and the players who get playing time deserve playing time. How refreshing is that? SVG and Casey do the opposite. Coaches are often weak on being objective relating who can play and who can't. Casey decided to ride Galloway, Smith, and Jackson. He also tried like hell to fit Leuer into the rotation. On the positive side he found room for Brown. Thank God for that. Perhaps the young guys he has are not good enough but how could they have done any worse? Casey played extremely small with small players who had no idea as to how to play defense. He also had no athletic big men who could make up for those small skill players who allowed so much dribble penetration. Coaches need to work hard with Maker or secure another big man if they go small next season and I think we will see the same cast of characters getting most of the minutes. That is the way Casey coaches. That is the way the owner likes it.

Maybe the Pistons will pick off someone like Curry who should help or at least provide some entertainment.

[Sparma]

Hope you're right, Oracle; that would give them a lot of flexibility. Don't think that's how it works though. Consider Langlois's most recent column: "Next summer will look a whole lot different – the Pistons are projected to have enough cap space to pursue a maximum free agent, if they choose...." I.e., that's not something they could choose to do this summer.

I don't think that means much of anything now though.  It was recently suggested that the Pistons offer Durant a max deal.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a possibility under league rules, given their cap situation.

Of course they could! Why did you think they had a luxury tax?

They could sign Durant, Butler and Leonard if they wanted to, there's no limit, you just have to pay the luxury tax.

Of course it wouldn't make any financial sense, and they would have to want to come here, but we could do it.

BTW, I don't want Bullock back unless it's at the vets minimum, and then only as a backup, it's time to develop the youngsters, IMO.

[Oracle]

I don't think that means much of anything now though.  It was recently suggested that the Pistons offer Durant a max deal.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a possibility under league rules, given their cap situation.

Of course they could! Why did you think they had a luxury tax?

They could sign Durant, Butler and Leonard if they wanted to, there's no limit, you just have to pay the luxury tax.

Of course it wouldn't make any financial sense, and they would have to want to come here, but we could do it.

BTW, I don't want Bullock back unless it's at the vets minimum, and then only as a backup, it's time to develop the youngsters, IMO.

[Sparma]

I'm glad Tom Gores said he was willing to go into the luxury tax area.  But...

I don't think that means much of anything now though.  It was recently suggested that the Pistons offer Durant a max deal.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not a possibility under league rules, given their cap situation.

As I understand  things about the only way the Pistons could pay significant luxury tax this season is if they first signed someone, let's say Bullock, for the mid-level exception, and then re-signed Ish and picked up Glenn Robinson's option.  I'm not even sure it's possible to use the mid-level first without getting locked into a salary level.  I was going to add that they could first use the bi-annual exception, but evidently not: "Additionally, once a team uses the bi-annual exception, the tax apron becomes a hard salary cap for the remainder of that season." (wiki).

It sounds like what they'll actually do is to use at least a good chunk of the mid-level exception to replace Ish, turn down the Robinson option, and then use the bi-annual exception.  That won't lead them into luxury tax territory.

If Gores had really wanted to put his money where his mouth is, he needed to do it earlier by a) keeping Bullock then ballooning his pay with the same team in the summer (as would have been allowed) and b) making use by February of the 7 mil or so trade exception (from the Blake trade, now expired) to acquire someone with a bigger salary (I think the NBA cap would allow that), and/ or then balloon that player's salary once on the team.  For instance, I think they could have dealt Reggie at 16 mil & the 7 mil trade exception for Conley (not that Memphis would have gone for that deal!), and then have kept Conley on the payroll moving forward. For good measure, they could have kept Stanley and given him a pay hike over the summer.  At that point, the Pistons would have been well into the luxury tax area.

Stefanski's made some deft moves (I was very skeptical regarding Bullock) to avoid just that scenario.  Credit to him.

But, with those moves in place, I give very little credit to Gores saying at the end of the season he'd be willing to pay luxury tax.  For now, that's idle talk as I understand things.  I do think they have like a 1.5 or 2 mil trade exception left, and maybe Gores will get the opportunity later to live up to his verbal commitment.  For now, it means little.

Oralce...you make many good points as usual.  I was just very eager to move on from RJ at least.  I thought if Gores was willing to go over the luxury cap, we could replace RJ in the starting line-up with a better option.  But perhaps the best we can hope for is an upgrade at the reserve PG position.  And then revisit the situation at the trade deadline or next off season.  I guess patience is still the operative word when discussing the Pistons roster.

But what I am definitely not down with is clogging up the starting SF position with an expensive FA wing.  IMO, there will be a lot of talented SFs in the draft that will be available to us.    KZ Okpala  is falling on the draft boards and might be available to us in the 1st round.  And Isaiah Roby, Robert Franks or Jaylan Hoard will all probably be available in the 2nd round.  And then there's Svi.  That represents a lot of young talent that can be molded by Casey into productive NBA SFs for years to come.

Seth Curry is a better choice than Derrick Rose at the reserve PG position.  And he could be an upgrade over Ish Smith, both defensively and in terms of perimeter shooting.  But Seth Curry represents another bargain basement fix  He can probably be had for the mid level exemption.

What happened to all this big talk about going over the luxury cap to sign of free agent?

The more I read the news feed, the more I realize that the Pistons are coming back with the same old, same old core of Reggie, Andre and and Blake.

Better is all about how you evaluate the choice. IMO, overall Rose is the better choice when you evaluate price vs performance. Curry is only better defensively and he's younger(more durable), but he's 3-4 times more costly.

You're not the only one that seems to have big concerns about the backup PG, but the reasons don't make sense to me. No matter what we do, this is a position we HAVE to fill, and if we want to make any other moves, we need to get the best value here.

I doubt Rose will be the solution they pick, I wouldn't, but I also won't be upset if they did.

Going over the CAP can only be evaluated if you identify someone worth going over the CAP for. Nothing I've see makes me think they wouldn't because I haven't see anyone to do that for in a realistic fashion.

BTW, expecting a core other than our current big 3, isn't reasonable. We can hope, but reality says that they're likely to be starting next season.

There will be action this summer, who knows what opportunities will occur, but there is major action around the Feb deadline as teams will be seeking expiring contracts.

In short, it's too early to see which way the buffalo's are roaming, let alone start falling for what the guys that need something to print have to say. They're throwing stuff on the wall...

[Oracle]

@Murph - I'm really with you on the SF situation, and we'll get a LOT smarter about that after summer league. They've said a lot about Svi, and I want to see if he has PG capability or if he fits better at the SF, many questions there. The good news about Svi is that he's seen the system and should be ready to contribute somewhere in the rotation, but at a minimum he should be considered for the starting SF, of course he'll have to earn it.

As for the rookie class, I'm a bit more skeptical. If things go as expected, we'll be adding Svi & Thomas to be developed along with making sure Kennard continues his development process. That's a lot for a team that wants to contend, and I do have concern about Kennards development in the starting lineup. With Reggie, Drummond & Blake, he may not get as many shots as he got in the playoffs with Blake out. We'll have to see how that plays out.

Finally, I'm glad you're not unreasonable about this situation. I know that we all want to see a big deal happen, something that really shakes things up and makes us very competitive. However, doing crazy deals just to do them can lead to CAP purgatory big time. There may be a big one out there, we'll just have to wait and see.

Playoffs: I knew Jimmy Butler was a good player, but watching him with Philly, he's a LOT better than I remembered. He's arguably their best player, because when the game is on the line, he's the man on that team. The problem for them is that while he's really good, he's no Kawhi Leonard, who is a dominant player.

No, this isn't a post saying we should go after him, because he also comes with Diva Baggage and I'm not sure he would fit in a normal locker room, I'm sure his head wouldn't fit in ours 

[Murph]

Oralce...you make many good points as usual. I was just very eager to move on from RJ at least. I thought if Gores was willing to go over the luxury cap, we could replace RJ in the starting line-up with a better option. But perhaps the best we can hope for is an upgrade at the reserve PG position. And then revisit the situation at the trade deadline or next off season. I guess patience is still the operative word when discussing the Pistons roster.

But what I am definitely not down with is clogging up the starting SF position with an expensive FA wing. IMO, there will be a lot of talented SFs in the draft that will be available to us. KZ Okpala is falling on the draft boards and might be available to us in the 1st round. And Isaiah Roby, Robert Franks or Jaylan Hoard will all probably be available in the 2nd round. And then there's Svi. That represents a lot of young talent that can be molded by Casey into productive NBA SFs for years to come.

Seth Curry is a better choice than Derrick Rose at the reserve PG position.  And he could be an upgrade over Ish Smith, both defensively and in terms of perimeter shooting.  But Seth Curry represents another bargain basement fix  He can probably be had for the mid level exemption.

What happened to all this big talk about going over the luxury cap to sign of free agent?

The more I read the news feed, the more I realize that the Pistons are coming back with the same old, same old core of Reggie, Andre and and Blake.

Better is all about how you evaluate the choice. IMO, overall Rose is the better choice when you evaluate price vs performance. Curry is only better defensively and he's younger(more durable), but he's 3-4 times more costly.

You're not the only one that seems to have big concerns about the backup PG, but the reasons don't make sense to me. No matter what we do, this is a position we HAVE to fill, and if we want to make any other moves, we need to get the best value here.

I doubt Rose will be the solution they pick, I wouldn't, but I also won't be upset if they did.

Going over the CAP can only be evaluated if you identify someone worth going over the CAP for. Nothing I've see makes me think they wouldn't because I haven't see anyone to do that for in a realistic fashion.

BTW, expecting a core other than our current big 3, isn't reasonable. We can hope, but reality says that they're likely to be starting next season.

There will be action this summer, who knows what opportunities will occur, but there is major action around the Feb deadline as teams will be seeking expiring contracts.

In short, it's too early to see which way the buffalo's are roaming, let alone start falling for what the guys that need something to print have to say. They're throwing stuff on the wall...

[Oracle]

Seth Curry is a better choice than Derrick Rose at the reserve PG position.  And he could be an upgrade over Ish Smith, both defensively and in terms of perimeter shooting.  But Seth Curry represents another bargain basement fix  He can probably be had for the mid level exemption.

What happened to all this big talk about going over the luxury cap to sign of free agent?

The more I read the news feed, the more I realize that the Pistons are coming back with the same old, same old core of Reggie, Andre and and Blake.

Better is all about how you evaluate the choice. IMO, overall Rose is the better choice when you evaluate price vs performance. Curry is only better defensively and he's younger(more durable), but he's 3-4 times more costly.

You're not the only one that seems to have big concerns about the backup PG, but the reasons don't make sense to me. No matter what we do, this is a position we HAVE to fill, and if we want to make any other moves, we need to get the best value here.

I doubt Rose will be the solution they pick, I wouldn't, but I also won't be upset if they did.

Going over the CAP can only be evaluated if you identify someone worth going over the CAP for. Nothing I've see makes me think they wouldn't because I haven't see anyone to do that for in a realistic fashion.

BTW, expecting a core other than our current big 3, isn't reasonable. We can hope, but reality says that they're likely to be starting next season.

There will be action this summer, who knows what opportunities will occur, but there is major action around the Feb deadline as teams will be seeking expiring contracts.

In short, it's too early to see which way the buffalo's are roaming, let alone start falling for what the guys that need something to print have to say. They're throwing stuff on the wall...

[Murph]

Seth Curry is a better choice than Derrick Rose at the reserve PG position.  And he could be an upgrade over Ish Smith, both defensively and in terms of perimeter shooting.  But Seth Curry represents another bargain basement fix  He can probably be had for the mid level exemption.

What happened to all this big talk about going over the luxury cap to sign of free agent?

The more I read the news feed, the more I realize that the Pistons are coming back with the same old, same old core of Reggie, Andre and and Blake.

[Oracle]

@Cool: They, FO, wanna get better without getting worse and does that mean selling a FRP or a promising youngun in a misguided attempt to do so? I don't see this happening

We see it in Casey too playing Gallows and Ellington over Khyri and Svi. I too thought there was a case for playing both, but I also admit it was a close call. He made the call for experience, and I'd likely do the same in his shoes because there just wasn't enough time to develop Svi, however, that excuse doesn't work as well with Thomas, not playing him was more a decision made early in the season because Brown was more NBA ready.

They want to get younger n better but think middling vets can do the same thing for us.  Definition of Insanity stuff. Vets can do it in most cases, but you have to pick the right vets and let them help bring the kids along, both things can happen, IMO.

Waiting to see the new brain trust exert a new direction.  Watching the playoffs You can see what type of effort is required, what kind of size is required and I say Pistons DNA is required.  

@Lemonpen; I agree those who demonstrate the appropriate qualities in the playoffs should be considered.  And I agree with @Oracle that continuity would surely help, a conundrum in our face. If our FO could objectively focus the analytics crew and the eyeball testers on what to keep and have the balls to cut out the rest, well...keep hope alive.

Somebody lock Gores in his wine cellar and make the right tough calls. And throw away the key on his Tom Jones looking arse 

It's adapt or die time. I don't think there's any confusion about getting the internal growth and bringing along the youngsters, but it's also important for the youngster to earn their PT.

Casey has the quality we need, he allows youngsters to make mistakes and won't beat them down like SVG did. Everybody falls a few times before they learn to walk and youngsters need the runway to take flight.

Aside: In management you get to see a lot of things companies do, and one of those things is Web Crawling. Web Crawling is used to search and find any website on the internet that mentions your company on a daily basis.

Searchable reports are generated so that marketing people, managers, legal, etc. can look at how the company is perceived.

I bring this up because I know the Pistons are doing the same thing. What that means is that somewhere someone in the organization will get what we say here and it will show up on his/her computer or desk.

Some things they will pay attention to, but a lot of it they won't.

The point is that this level of exercise is very good, we've really fleshed out some things that I think are very good for this team. And while they're not likely to follow our advice, we're not a voiceless as we used to be in the early days of the internet.

Having said that, I truly believe that we'll never have the power we had on the DetNews website again. Hell, Joe Dumars felt the need to address us directly back in those days, now that was power!!!

[BallinD]

@Cool: They, FO, wanna get better without getting worse and does that mean selling a FRP or a promising youngun in a misguided attempt to do so?

We see it in Casey too playing Gallows and Ellington over Khyri and Svi.

They want to get younger n better but think middling vets can do the same thing for us. Definition of Insanity stuff.

Waiting to see the new brain trust exert a new direction. Watching the playoffs You can see what type of effort is required, what kind of size is required and I say Pistons DNA is required.

@Lemonpen; I agree those who demonstrate the appropriate qualities in the playoffs should be considered. And I agree with @Oracle that continuity would surely help, a conundrum in our face. If our FO could objectively focus the analytics crew and the eyeball testers on what to keep and have the balls to cut out the rest, well...keep hope alive.

Somebody lock Gores in his wine cellar and make the right tough calls.

[cool breeze]

IMO I don't see tanking that way,  IMO tanking occurs during the season and not during the off season.  We can speculate that after a massive rebuild this team would suck, but on the other hand it might not.  

Okay so now I'm looking at this more optimistically and that's because I don't think this team could be any worse off.   Seriously we barely made the playoffs and going into next season I'm likely to predict 39 wins though the team was gifted 41 wins this past season.   

I don't suggest such a massive rebuild thinking we'll stink enough each season that high draft picks are falling at our feet for a few season.  Sure we may start off **** the first year, but at the same time we could still be a 39 win team and I would much rather watch 39 wins coming from a group of properly coach rookies and youngster than watching this overpaid hacks (BG, RJ and AD) struggling to do so on max deals.

I can see where one could see a massive rebuild as tanking,  but I think it's comes down to intent.  We know Philly got bad to get top picks and that's not what I'm proposing here.  I'm talking about dumping there asses now for immediate assets not picks down the road or around the corner.   I'm also not expecting immediate results from this action.  

I know everyone's against this but it's the right thing to do IMO

The Pistons need to get worse before they can get better. The fan base is shrinking. Nobody is listening to what Tom Gores is saying anymore. Everyone knows he will not make big moves because he has based everything on the career of Andre Drummond who doesn't fit the modern game or in any era unless he played as a reserve. It is how the Pistons lose that is important. The paint was the main way opponents scored against the Pistons now since AD arrived. It is not all his fault. The Pistons have never signed a good defensive big man. For the owner to not admit failure and keep on the same old story line, the Pistons will remain a loser. Adding a player like Seth Curry will not help the leaky Detroit defense. The Pistons need bigger, younger, more athletic and talented players but they can only sign players like they currently have until the big contracts go away. Go ahead and remain the same. Ignore the fact that the Pistons haven't drafted in the top 5 since many people started watching this dysfunctional organization plan for the future. SVG planned well to destroy the team that beat him so many times before he arrived in Detroit. SVG's career had ended. But Tom Gores brought him out of moth balls. Great job!

I attended a birthday party with family members this past weekend. There were about 18 people in all. I was the only person who watched even one game this past season. Everyone is from the state of Michigan. That is how bad this owner has screwed up the franchise. My Brother in Law made a good point. Zeke played his entire career with the Pistons. Kevin Durant is already talking about who he wants to play for next season. Marcus Morris hated being traded to Detroit. Look who he had to play basketball with. He was the guy who wanted to hold a players only meeting. That one meeting still makes Tom Gores upset. The Pistons have the worst leadership in the entire NBA. That is a fact. Other losing teams start over. Fans enjoy watching the young kids play even if they lose. No fan likes a fake team that try to trick fans into attending games by offering fantastic pre game drama. Meanwhile the players haven't given a thought as to who they might be playing at any given night. I will only watch next season if the young guys that I mentioned previously get into the rotation. But watch out, you are going to see a lot of Galloway next year. That is Casey's guy. He shoots the 3 and is not afraid. Such courage!

[WTF]

IMO I don't see tanking that way,  IMO tanking occurs during the season and not during the off season.  We can speculate that after a massive rebuild this team would suck, but on the other hand it might not.  

Okay so now I'm looking at this more optimistically and that's because I don't think this team could be any worse off.   Seriously we barely made the playoffs and going into next season I'm likely to predict 39 wins though the team was gifted 41 wins this past season.   

I don't suggest such a massive rebuild thinking we'll stink enough each season that high draft picks are falling at our feet for a few season.  Sure we may start off **** the first year, but at the same time we could still be a 39 win team and I would much rather watch 39 wins coming from a group of properly coach rookies and youngster than watching this overpaid hacks (BG, RJ and AD) struggling to do so on max deals.

I can see where one could see a massive rebuild as tanking,  but I think it's comes down to intent.  We know Philly got bad to get top picks and that's not what I'm proposing here.  I'm talking about dumping there asses now for immediate assets not picks down the road or around the corner.   I'm also not expecting immediate results from this action.  

I know everyone's against this but it's the right thing to do IMO

[Sponsored content]