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NBA teams never win big with point guards like Reggie Jackson and Brandon Jennings

Post  cool breeze on Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:32 am

Why were so many Piston fans upset when Joe Dumars made that trade with the Bucks giving up Knight and Middleton for Jennings? Many of us knew from history that teams seldom win in the playoffs with point guards who are weak defensive players and shoot first on offense. Reggie will have his incredible scoring nights like we have seen this season. But when he is on the floor everyone knows what is going to happen. You need more than a two man show between Jackson and Drummond. With Spencer playing we saw good floor spacing with players who seldom touch the basketball suddenly trying harder to get open. Reggie is very young and has potential to become more than he is now. He can learn to focus more on defense when his offensive game sucks. He might learn to look to reverse the basketball more and not over penetrate and dominate the basketball.

This was a tough road trip. Hopefully the players have learned something from the loses. The lone bright spot has to be the play of Spencer Dinwiddie last night. He really looks good when he is on the floor with better players. I was more impressed with his great defense and how he was able to get the team in better positions relating to floor spacing. There has been no positive floor spacing on this road trip when Jackson has been on the floor.

Andre Drummond is not ready to assume the responsibility he has been given relating to offensive production. He is a work in progress at best at this moment in his career. Andre needs to look first to pass the basketball when he gets it in the painted area. Instead he puts up low percentage off balance shot attempts. And no team will hesitate fouling Andre who is almost a sure miss at the free throw line. That strategy of getting the ball inside for Andre to make his move for a shot is insane coach Van Gundy. You know better. Andre is playing too many minutes. Baines is still not in game shape mostly because he was receiving from injuries in training camp and beyond and now only is getting a few minutes per game. He does many things better than Drummond on defense. He can pass the basketball well and he sets screens for other players.

Pope is showing this season that he can get over screens and anticipate better on defense. However, he seems to be the same type of offensive player he was for the last two seasons. He is not consistent on offense. However, much of the time he is playing with Jackson and mostly ends up not touching the basketball for several minutes. He is the 2 guard and the teams needs scoring from that position. Timing is everything and somehow I believe that Pope would be a better all around player with a different type of point guard. Yet sometimes I see that he is not trying hard enough to get open as if he is resigned to being a decoy. For this team to win bigger, we need a better 2 guard and more emphisis buy the coaching staff on getting the 2 guard more involved in the offense.

Stanley Johnson is seeing teams for the first time right now. He is a quick learner and I expect he will be a much more consistent player on offense as the season moves forward. As of now, he still might be the best defender on the team. And considering the skill players, Spencer Dinwiddie might be the second best defender with KCP coming in third. Notice in this last game, Johnson had 4 fouls called against him and I thought 3 of them could have gone the other way. Dinwiddie did not allow dribble penetration. He is a smart player who has received the short end of the stick so far by Van Gundy. I don't look forward to the return of Brandon Jennings unless Jennings has somehow changed his mental outlook relating to playing defense. We could use his shooting playing the 2 guard though that is if he can defend any 2 guards.

Morris looked like the same guy on this road trip that earned him a lot of bench time when he played for the Suns. The West coast teams know his weaknesses. However, overall, I am pleasantly surprised what he has brought to the team. He is just not a prime time NBA small forward who one would see on a really good team. Hopefully, Stanley Johnson can be that man eventually.

We all have to admit that our Pistons were for the most part NOT fun to watch. The movement was not there on offense. The players played lazy mentally on both ends. This team is young so we need to stay patient and hope they have more in their hearts than players had in the recent past. Also, when will we fans get to see players who have the guts and focus to step up to the free throw line and make those easy shots???? Our Pistons lost 3 games on this road trip because of horrible free throw shooting and the inability to draw more fouls. There is nothing that kills team chemistry more than having players who get the ball in prime time end up missing free throws.

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Lakers, No Reggie Jackson was the Piston Killer tonight

Post  Phil1980boy on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:26 am

I would have to place this L on Reggie Jackson shoulders tonight. The Pistons had this game but Jackson got back into the game and KILL The Pistons in like 60 seconds time flat!!

Morris is still not playing well. His defense was good but his scoring ability is needed.

KCP play has fell off A level or two as well. KCP is playing really wild on offense.

This team need A in-flux of talent on both ends of the floor. Stan has his hands full more so as A GM then as head coach. The Pistons could really use A quality starting Power Forward with Illy/Tolliver bringing the heat off the bench with shooting and defense.

I need to see Reggie bounce back. Morris also.

I expect Detroit to give Cleveland hell Tuesday....
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OMG, I don't remember ANY Piston team playing this bad!

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:57 am

I truly am at a loss for words! They've either very tired or they've been EXPOSED!

However the biggest mistake of the night belongs to SVG!

Dinwiddie was the hot hand, he led the team from being down to a 3 point lead! That's when SVG struck!!!

He inserted the ball hogging Reggie Jackson and POOF... there went the lead and the game!

He finally brought Dinwiddie back, and he again did well, but we were down too much and it was over!

If you haven't seen the game, normally I'd advise against watching it because it's so ugly, but this time I think it's important to see just how bad it really was, and I mean, this game was bad enough to shake your confidence in this team!
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Notes...

Post  Oracle on Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:25 pm

@Sissy: To start the game, they had GREAT ball movement, but they were also shooting lights out! I knew that neither would continue, but I didn't expect a complete reversion back to ISO Basketball! Reggie dribbles too much and Drummond believes that once they pass him the ball, he doesn't have any other teammates. Both will mature, it just takes time.

@WTF: Wise, they shoot 3's like they're going out of style, simply because SVG wants them to! SVG believes that if you have a 3 point shot early in the clock and no defender on you, you should take the shot. Other coaches want to find the best shot, and that would be the best shot if you have dead eye shooters, unfortunately we don't.

Our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness... Drummond! We're going to have to have a quick hook for him if he can't hit his FT's. I have little faith that he will get better this season, but hope springs eternal.

@Phillip: Yes, I had the exact same reaction, SVG's coaching lost this one in two ways, one for what he did, and the other for what he didn't do!

IMO, he succeeded in getting ball movement, but it had a backfire effect. I kind of saw this coming in the Clippers/Suns game.

In that game, even in a loss, I saw a really powerful Clipper defense that caused the Suns a lot of problems in the 2nd half. If didn't stop them because Knight is way faster than any player on our team, and they just couldn't contain him, and when they did, he just hit 3 pointers over the defense. But it was the Clippers defense that made me nervous number one, and the new elevated play of Rivers at PG second! Rivers is no longer the useless part that I saw last year, he's a solid backup now!

Flash forward to our game, and once the Clipper defense intensified in the 2nd half, we went back to our old ways and stopped moving the ball and going ISO. Unfortunately, the rhythm for that kind of game wasn't there since we hadn't been doing it earlier in the game.

What SVG didn't do is adjust! He had no answer for Crawford, who ran basically the exact same play to score time after time. I knew Griffin was going to score big, he's their star along with Paul, but letting Crawford go off like that was a difference maker.

But you're right, there was some good news! This night Drummond served notice that he's truly one of the top big men in the NBA! Facing a very athletic big like Jordan, who used to win that matchup easily, that those days are OVER! Dre dominated him on both ends of the court and clearly won the matchup!

While I don't like that his FT shooting is so poor, I'm really happy about his development in every other area this early in the season, because it's only going to get better as the season progresses! He still doesn't know that he can dominate from that position yet, and that may come next year, but he's getting some of the idea!

BTW, we only got 16 points out of the combination of our SG(10) & SF(6)! That can't happen if we're going to win! Those are two scoring positions, and at least one of them needs to produce on any given night.

KCP has been playing well, but as you noted, Morris has had 3 sub par games.

They really do need some home cooking, this is one hell of a long road trip, but we NEED to beat the Lakers today!!!
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Free's, 3's and T's

Post  WTF on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:28 am

Free's as in FT's collectively for this team IMO sucks because everyone else needs to be damn near perfect so that when Andre is shooting 4-16 if doesn't have as large an impact on the outcome.

3's OMG!!!! the Pistons shoot far too many for my liking and they shot them horribly at that. IMO this was the difference between losing and winning in at least 2 of these road loses.

T's as in turnovers I would love to see them get this well under 10 a game and quickly. Turnovers were never a problem with our team in past but now it along with every other dip in playing fundamentally right is accepted.

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How about it Stan

Post  Sissy1946 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:59 pm

You tell them pass the ball, quit dribbling so much, quit ball hogging & going ISO so much, ok, you told them Stan & they still do it, am so disgusted with this effort tonight, merry Xmas clippers, we can't close it out so we just hand it to you, how can we keep affording to keep giving the keys to this piston car to these knuckleheads, I want them all to go to their room & get out of my sight. Stan, their not listening, your not having them ready to win, WTF is going on. I'm sure glad I calmed down since this puke game ended, Reggie Jackson, don't get me started on the "Dribbler" who won't stop dribbling. Detroit sports, where are you? Tigers, Lions, Red Wings & was waiting for the Pistons to do something but after seeing these last three games ......................
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Damn Doc Rivers. So you just going to out coach Stan like that!!

Post  Phil1980boy on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:57 pm

Give Doc Rivers credit. He won this game.... with his coaching.

This was A good L for Detroit. A learning lesson for Dre and the Pistons. Drummonds is going to have to start knocking down FT's or he will cost Detroit some wins. Also, I want to see Baynes be more ready to play. So far on this entire road trip, Bayne has not been ready to play ball. No reason why he can't AVG 8 to 10 points per game.

If Drummonds can't hit FT's then Baynes and this entire Pistons team needs to rebound as A collective better.


Next time something like this happens, Detroit will be ready to respond better.

Morris has had three bad games in A row now. Need him to get things back on track A.S.A.P.
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6 points about losing to the TRASH Kings

Post  Oracle on Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:48 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:Oracle, I say Cousins out played Drummonds because Drummonds is our franchise guy. And Drummonds should feel that he got out played by Cousins also if Drummonds is the kind of guy I believe he is. Got you, I agree with that!

I like B.Jennings also but I'm not looking for him to be anything to the Pistons but A trade chip. i know Jennings left on fire, last we saw him but I said it then when Jennings was playing up A storm. Detroit needs A steady PG and Jennings is not that guy. Jennings would be A amazing 6th man but would he accept that role when he's 100% healthy? I don't think so. And how much will it cost to keep Jennings if he did accept the 6th man role? He already making 8-Million. You think he taking A pay cut with the cap going up next summer? NO! Also, how money do you want to dump into A back-up PG when Detroit need A starting Power Forward and A back up 2-Guard with starting guard ability?

A lot of people don't care for Jackson. I like the kid. I only see him becoming even better. Don't forget, he not A finished product. He just turn 25.

The Pistons need help at PF, SG, and PG positions. I want to see more from Baynes as well. He got some skills on offense but who in the hell would know? He acting like he afraid to go to work...

I'm actually looking for a LOT from Jennings, and I do love Reggie and recognize that he is far from a finished product, which means that I think his ceiling is very high!

What I'm not expecting from Jennings is for him to be around past this season, but that's all right!

IMO, you have to see this season as a season where we solidify and define the core of this team(plus good role players), and recognize that the players around them will change yet again next season. We're not an elite team yet, so what we need to do is to get the most out of the players, like Jennings, to go as far as we can!

Almost every team out there needs a lot of help too, but it's mostly not talent help that's needed, but players that fit their system better.

Side Note: I happen to catch some of the Clippers/Suns game last night, and it dawned on me that now that Cool Breeze(Don) has Knight playing locally and tearing it up(he dropped 37 on the Clips), he's likely following the Suns this season lol lol lol
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6 points about losing to the TRASH Kings

Post  Phil1980boy on Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:44 am

Oracle, I say Cousins out played Drummonds because Drummonds is our franchise guy. And Drummonds should feel that he got out played by Cousins also if Drummonds is the kind of guy I believe he is.

I like B.Jennings also but I'm not looking for him to be anything to the Pistons but A trade chip. i know Jennings left on fire, last we saw him but I said it then when Jennings was playing up A storm. Detroit needs A steady PG and Jennings is not that guy. Jennings would be A amazing 6th man but would he accept that role when he's 100% healthy? I don't think so. And how much will it cost to keep Jennings if he did accept the 6th man role? He already making 8-Million. You think he taking A pay cut with the cap going up next summer? NO! Also, how money do you want to dump into A back-up PG when Detroit need A starting Power Forward and A back up 2-Guard with starting guard ability?

A lot of people don't care for Jackson. I like the kid. I only see him becoming even better. Don't forget, he not A finished product. He just turn 25.

The Pistons need help at PF, SG, and PG positions. I want to see more from Baynes as well. He got some skills on offense but who in the hell would know? He acting like he afraid to go to work...
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6 points about losing to the TRASH Kings

Post  Oracle on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:20 pm

Phil1980boy wrote:1. Drummonds got out played by Cousins. It's easy to see and call it out. It should never happen again Drummonds. Agree, but Cousins played PF not center when Cauley-Stein was on the floor.

2. Sacramento is TRASH as A team and Organization. No way the Pistons should feel good about this L Agree

3. D.Cousins is A professional basketball player, cry baby and actor. Cousins had the ref's in his back pocket tonight. Agree

4. The Pistons defense was TRASH tonight. Detroit came into this game saying, we going to out score Sacramento. Agree

5. Detroit plays way too much 1 on 1 basketball.  It's iso, dribble, probe, launch 3bomb. Swing the GOT..DAMN Basketball Side to F.U.C.K.I.N.G side and let's see if they can defend that. Look at F.U.C.K.I.N.G. old as San Antonio. Almost every shot is A open shot. How in the hell can A team with players as old as my Grand Mother get open like that? Detroit need to find out how? Passing the DAMN basketball. That's how. Agree, and I have more below!

6. SACRAMENTO IS TRASH. If I was GM of the Kings I would keep W.C.S. and trade everybody else. Cousins is such A drama king. His behavior during games is so childish and immature. He has no respect for the game of basketball. His attitude is very sour. I can see him holding the growth of A young team down. Cousins attitude is A mix of Josh smith/Rasheed Wallace/DIVA. His basketball character is very poor. I would never allow A kid like him to be the face of my franchise. He not built for that type of job. Is he talented? Hell YES! Is he A leader? Hell NO!! The faster they move Cousins the better off they will be

We've all talked about assists, well, assists are good, but assists and ball movement are two different things that are only slightly related.

Assisting is the process of making ONE pass to someone that makes a basket!

Ball Movement is the process of making several passes, where the initiator may or may not get an assist!

I do fault Reggie for both lack of assists and lack of ball movement, although failure to move the ball does fall on more than Reggie!

However, lack of ball movement makes our offense suck, but that's been the case in most games so far, the real reason for this loss was our lack of defense, particularly at the SF position!

This shouldn't be a big surprise because Rudy Gay has pretty much OWNED Marcus Morris over the years, and last night was probably one of his best ass kicking of Morris in recent years!

Even slightly playing better defense on Gay would have gone a long way towards us winning this game.

I also thought that SVG could have used his jumbo lineup in this game! He talked about using both Drummond and Baynes to start against teams with big frontcourts, well, are there any bigger than the Kings fielded last night with Cousins and Cauley-Stein? Basically two 7 footers, and I would have liked for Baynes to play physical against Cousins and frustrate a mentally fragile player like Laimbeer used to do, who plays PF, not center!

So I'm not letting SVG off the hook in this one either, and SVG has another issue he's brewing that will bite us in the ass!

This new rotation is a rotation from hell, as KCP & Morris get run to death, and on a long road trip, they're likely to weaken near the end, and just go through the motions, just to get the damn thing over!

We seriously need a healthy Jennings in the worst way, and while I like Baynes, I would really look to bring in a better option, and cut Joel Anthony! Move Baynes to Joel's position, or keep Anthony and move Baynes!

Baynes provides a lot of physical toughness, but he isn't either a rim protector or scorer we need to back up Drummond!

Looks like we will have to ride it out until Jennings returns, I just hope we can get our Johnson's up for the Clippers and Lakers!
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6 points about losing to the TRASH Kings

Post  Phil1980boy on Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:38 am

1. Drummonds got out played by Cousins. It's easy to see and call it out. It should never happen again Drummonds.

2. Sacramento is TRASH as A team and Organization. No way the Pistons should feel good about this L

3. D.Cousins is A professional basketball player, cry baby and actor. Cousins had the ref's in his back pocket tonight.

4. The Pistons defense was TRASH tonight. Detroit came into this game saying, we going to out score Sacramento.

5. Detroit plays way too much 1 on 1 basketball. It's iso, dribble, probe, launch 3bomb. Swing the GOT..DAMN Basketball Side to F.U.C.K.I.N.G side and let's see if they can defend that. Look at F.U.C.K.I.N.G. old as San Antonio. Almost every shot is A open shot. How in the hell can A team with players as old as my Grand Mother get open like that? Detroit need to find out how? Passing the DAMN basketball. That's how.

6. SACRAMENTO IS TRASH. If I was GM of the Kings I would keep W.C.S. and trade everybody else. Cousins is such A drama king. His behavior during games is so childish and immature. He has no respect for the game of basketball. His attitude is very sour. I can see him holding the growth of A young team down. Cousins attitude is A mix of Josh smith/Rasheed Wallace/DIVA. His basketball character is very poor. I would never allow A kid like him to be the face of my franchise. He not built for that type of job. Is he talented? Hell YES! Is he A leader? Hell NO!!
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Ballin & WTF

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:13 pm

Wise, Ballin has pointed out what everybody is already saying and agree with! I posted the article that exposes a lot of those issues, because it's really early and this stuff isn't easy until they go through it enough and know each other better!

Nobody's arguing any of those points, so back to what we're talking about.

A Lion might not bite, but one look at those teeth, you know he can and likely will lol

You kept saying Reggie isn't being a floor general and he never was and likely never can be(at least that's the inference since you ignore real games). That's the issue, and the numbers prove it beyond a doubt. So we know Reggie can bite, and we can see he isn't doing it, so calling that out is logical to do!

If you go back, I was on a daily rant that Reggie wasn't anywhere near the player he was last year, and it took a few more games to get to where he is now, so I'm cool with the development process now.

BTW, if you say you want to wait for 25 games(I like 20), because that's generally when things settle down, then judgments should be hard to come by, at least from you.

I know you say you're old school, and I think most of us are, but being old school doesn't mean you can't accept current reality and focus on what works... that's how winners win, by adapting!
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I agree

Post  WTF on Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:01 pm

BallinD wrote:A missing Link

1. Our ball movement is abysmal, a clear step back from the last quarter of last season, particularly from RJ.  Got the contract, and trying to live up to it.  I get that, but he has to know he cant do it alone all season.  Needs to go back to the hungry, assist and scoring pg that led us at the end of the season.
2. Our pick and roll is getting stuffed more often than not.  Looks like teams are well aware of and stuffing the  RJ-Dre pick and roll, which causes RJ to more often than not keep the ball and take it to the hole himself.  The early results are ok, but its not sustainable.  

3. Anyone can see the Illy is not producing, but a closer look indicates he is not getting touches, nor quality touches due to: 1. Ball movement, and 2. not being targeted out of the PnR. 3. Also, Dre is not passing out of the double teams very well.  All these issues are correctable.

Illy is the odd man out.  SVG said last night:

"I thought forcing too many plays, one dribble too many, trying to force plays," Van Gundy said. "There are people open on the perimeter. We keep talking about it. We keep showing film and we're just struggling with it." SVG.

"I think Ersan's a really tough player.  He can shoot the ball, he's really smart, he knows how to play.  I think he's a guy, if our ball movement gets better, he will start to thrive.  But right now, our ball movement is not good, so he's not getting a lot of opportunities offensively."

This above comment is right there with what I'm saying about not having a Floor General. no one directing traffic and setting up team mates and its far too much freelancing going on from both guard position but mainly from the PG.

I agree all this can be corrected with smart play from the PG position
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:54 pm

Oracle wrote:I'm sure everyone has heard that, and... Any war you win, your leader will be praised!

DX said it well,

DX wrote:Reggie Jackson has his game constantly examined for flaws for #1 he's getting paid and #2 he's not Zeke or Chauncey; no he's not, he's Reggie...REGGIE goddamnit!

I'd like to go a bit further. IMO, a leader does what's needed, and is tasked with knowing when to involve others based on who's on the floor and the opposition.

I will grant you that Jennings, at least as far as I've seen may be more of a traditional PG, I think he has good floor vision, and looks to pass a lot more than Reggie, but Jennings doesn't have that 7' wingspan or his 6'3 height!

In short, you want your PG to use all of his tools, so your assist mileage may vary, depending on who's on the floor at any given time.

But your continued assertion that Reggie doesn't do assists just isn't true! He will do it, and IMO, he will when it makes sense. I'll leave you with proof... just look at the assist column, a lot of double digit assists and one 20 assist game!


I won't argue the stats it just proves he's capable still doesn't make him the Floor General he needs to be and my concerns remain the same because at some point freelancing will lean more to the side of failure.

I like the wins don't get me wrong but I like fundamentally capable players along with my winning. You call them new age players and I call them lacking fundamentals. I recall CB lead teams under LB averaging less than 4 or 5 TO's a game. LB called it playing the right way!!! I recall a Zeke lead team in which every player was made better. Sorry I do have an high expectation and I'm just not going to say it's okay. Where 6 games in and I have yet to see double digits assist and if we were looking at a 2-4 record oppose to a 4-2 record most of you would be pointing out what I'm pointing out.

Part of this is on SVG and the frequent 3's
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Three Things

Post  BallinD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:54 pm

A missing Link

1. Our ball movement is abysmal, a clear step back from the last quarter of last season, particularly from RJ.  Got the contract, and trying to live up to it.  I get that, but he has to know he cant do it alone all season.  Needs to go back to the hungry, assist and scoring pg that led us at the end of the season.
2. Our pick and roll is getting stuffed more often than not.  Looks like teams are well aware of and stuffing the  RJ-Dre pick and roll, which causes RJ to more often than not keep the ball and take it to the hole himself.  The early results are ok, but its not sustainable.  

3. Anyone can see the Illy is not producing, but a closer look indicates he is not getting touches, nor quality touches due to: 1. Ball movement, and 2. not being targeted out of the PnR. 3. Also, Dre is not passing out of the double teams very well.  All these issues are correctable.

Illy is the odd man out.  SVG said last night:

"I thought forcing too many plays, one dribble too many, trying to force plays," Van Gundy said. "There are people open on the perimeter. We keep talking about it. We keep showing film and we're just struggling with it." SVG.

"I think Ersan's a really tough player.  He can shoot the ball, he's really smart, he knows how to play.  I think he's a guy, if our ball movement gets better, he will start to thrive.  But right now, our ball movement is not good, so he's not getting a lot of opportunities offensively."
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WTF

Post  FlyDog on Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:58 pm

Wise, obviously Jackson is much better than Bynum. But I see similarities in their game; explosive to the hoop, inconsistent jumper........selfish tendencies. Put it this way.....if Jackson was 5'10 with stubby arms they'd be like identical players on the court. The good news is, I never imagined the Pistons winning a championship with Chauncey at PG when they brought him over.........and they ended up being inches away from winning two!

And Oracle has converted me on the "Prototypical" PG thing. The only guy today who's game even remotely resembles Isiah's is Chris Paul, and he ain't won jack ****!
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Warring With The Warriors

Post  lemonpen on Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:24 pm

WTF wrote:Oracle, I never said Reggie can't be I simply said he isn't but I'm stand that I'm not sold on him as a Floor General.  It the same with what I said about Jennings that both these guys are talented scorers they even have a bit of flare about them.  I'm more sold on Jennings more so then Jackson because we've have all seen Jennings in moments drop 17 assist and wonder why not more often.   We haven't seen this of Jackson so far and I do have issues with PG's that take 18-20 plus shots while managing only 5 assist.

There has to be a balance with those attempts and dishes.    

@Fly, Jackson is light years above Bynum facepalm


This was a winnable game defensively I don't think GS is that good and we just needed to be a little more focus and this could have been one in the win column.  The effort was there but focus was wavering a bit.

Good to see Stanley get off a little. tb

Wise, IMO a by-product of RJax becoming a "floor general" will be a reduction in his shot attempts with little effect on scoring average, and a growing synergy between two other players not named Reggie. (Ref: no one could set up Big Ben like Rip) I believe the RJ we see today is still influenced by the style of Russell Westbrook.
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Wise: Any landing you walk away from was a good one...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:17 pm

I'm sure everyone has heard that, and... Any war you win, your leader will be praised!

DX said it well,

DX wrote:Reggie Jackson has his game constantly examined for flaws for #1 he's getting paid and #2 he's not Zeke or Chauncey; no he's not, he's Reggie...REGGIE goddamnit!

I'd like to go a bit further. IMO, a leader does what's needed, and is tasked with knowing when to involve others based on who's on the floor and the opposition.

I will grant you that Jennings, at least as far as I've seen may be more of a traditional PG, I think he has good floor vision, and looks to pass a lot more than Reggie, but Jennings doesn't have that 7' wingspan or his 6'3 height!

In short, you want your PG to use all of his tools, so your assist mileage may vary, depending on who's on the floor at any given time.

But your continued assertion that Reggie doesn't do assists just isn't true! He will do it, and IMO, he will when it makes sense. I'll leave you with proof... just look at the assist column, a lot of double digit assists and one 20 assist game!

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Warring With The Warriors

Post  WTF on Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:17 pm

Oracle, I never said Reggie can't be I simply said he isn't but I'm stand that I'm not sold on him as a Floor General. It the same with what I said about Jennings that both these guys are talented scorers they even have a bit of flare about them. I'm more sold on Jennings more so then Jackson because we've have all seen Jennings in moments drop 17 assist and wonder why not more often. We haven't seen this of Jackson so far and I do have issues with PG's that take 18-20 plus shots while managing only 5 assist.

There has to be a balance with those attempts and dishes.

@Fly, Jackson is light years above Bynum facepalm


This was a winnable game defensively I don't think GS is that good and we just needed to be a little more focus and this could have been one in the win column. The effort was there but focus was wavering a bit.

Good to see Stanley get off a little. tb
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Casey P. and The Gang

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:37 am

I unfairly judged Kentavious Caldwell-Pope to be no more than a hard working country boy that, basketball wise, was dumb as a box of rocks...I was wrong! My low opinion of his skills was based on my disappointment of not getting Trey Burke, who by the way, I don't value as much as KCP today. This young stud is getting progressively better every year, on both ends of the floor and I'm glad he's a Piston.

Andre Drummond is criticized for facets of his game (FT's and post play) that are improving and if he keeps improving, those facets won't keep him out of the HOF after his career. I marvel at the fact that more is getting done on the interior than Monroe ever provided for us and he made his FT's and his supporters always trumpet his hellafied post play...Andre is going to average a double, but he's turned out to be such a team player and leader, I'm pulling for him to average 20/20!

Reggie Jackson has his game constantly examined for flaws for #1 he's getting paid and #2 he's not Zeke or Chauncey; no he's not, he's Reggie...REGGIE goddamnit! What's being overlooked about Reggie is the thing he has in common with the championship PG's of the past is that he's connected with his center (something Brandon Jennings never impressed me he had sincerely done!) and the team is winning under his generalship. He's been a Piston less than half a season, so money aside, let's see how this year plays out with him.

Ersan Ilyasova is what was defined last year as a "glue guy" and he's making his presence felt more than our previous edition "glue guy." He's a proven 3 threat in this league, takes charges, plays within the teams structure and keeps his mouth shut. Like him or not, he's a part of one great starting unit; compared to what we've seen trotted out on the floor at PF for an eternity, I'm glad he's here.

Marcus Morris has earned his right to start at SF (that's where he's comfortable at!) and we should stop trying to fix sh!t that ain't broke. "Twin's" game is light years ahead of what we've been working with recently, plus he has moxey and the attitude of a winner. Stanley Johnson's day will come, but now is not his time; he's a 19 year old rookie and should be accorded all the consideration a team can give a rookie they prize...plenty of development PT going against bench players, who he can dominate. Between backup SF/SG he'll learn this league and gain the respect of the refs (which he'll need once he starts and plays his highly aggressive style game).

Brandon Jenningsreturn to good health is something I can hardly wait on; sit Steve Blake's sorry ass down (SVG has a thing about "the walking dead"), cut bait with Fuckin' Jodie Meeks(he'll never be of any great use to us), and allow Spencer Dinwiddie's contract to run out (I don't think anything short of a miracle will resurrect his game). I want to see Jennings lead the 2nd unit and more importantly, I'd love for him to embrace that role!

With all that being said about a team I'm cheering for, so they lost to the Warriors last night, there's still the Clippers to add to our win column; if we can claim 1 of the 2 top teams in the western swing as our victim, then we come home a force to be reckoned with. I know/hope that I don't win the "projected total win", because this is currently looking like a 50 win team; congratulations to the top win poster, ye of great faith.

GO PISTONS!
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SVG had some really smart things to say...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:14 am

SVG wrote:PISTONS HEAD COACH STAN VAN GUNDY
 ON STAYING CLOSE BUT FALLING SHORT IN THE LOSS: “Look, you can’t turn the ball over 20 times and you can’t give up 35 fast-break points. That to me was the game. I thought we made some really bad decisions passing the ball. We didn’t pass it enough and we turned it over too much. I thought our biggest problem tonight was our offense, which put our defense in bad problems, but our guys did continue to fight. We simply didn’t play well enough against a very good team.” 

 ON REGGIE JACKSON’S STATUS: “He just got kneed in the thigh.”

 ON ERSAN ILYASOVA: “I think Ersan is a really good player. He’s a tough guy. He can shoot the ball. He’s really smart. He knows how to play. So I think he’s a guy if our ball movement gets better, he will start to thrive, but right now, our ball movement is not good and so he’s not getting a lot of opportunities offensively.”

 ON THE PLAY OF BOTH BENCHES: “I thought their bench did a good job. Stanley (Johnson) played well, probably his best offensive game. I didn’t think he was, it’s interesting, he wasn’t as good defensively as he has been the last couple of games, but he had a good offensive game. But yeah, their bench outplayed ours, no question.” 

 ON TURNOVERS: “I thought forcing too many plays, one dribble too many, trying to force plays. There are people open on the perimeter. We keep talking about it. We keep showing film and we’re just struggling with it.”

 ON KENTAVIOUS CALDWELL-POPE’S DEFENSE AGAINST STEPHEN CURRY: “I thought he did a really good job. Look, I mean some of the screens you’ve got to get through on them, some of them are good, solid, legal screens, some of them aren’t even close to that and you’ve still got to get through it. The one I got the technical on, fine, I’ll take the technical on that. Anybody can watch that play and tell me I was wrong. I’ll give them the 2,000 (dollars) that I have to give the league. I mean it wasn’t even close. With all he had to go through, I thought he did a great job. He made it tough on him. That’s all you can do. The guy is a great, great player, but he didn’t have an easy night. He made it tough on him.”

 ON ENCOURAGING STRETCHES OF PLAY FROM THE BENCH: “No question. There were some encouraging things in that game. I thought the way our bench got us back in it, second quarter. The way we fought back in it in the third quarter. We’re down four, you feel like going into the fourth, you’ve got a chance and then we just started the fourth terribly. Five quick points, we just didn’t do a good job.” 


His comment on why Illy isn't delivering was spot on, I just didn't think of it that way until he said it!

However, this goes to why Wise's comment was one I agreed with! We played great, but our lack of experience in a lot of things, especially winning against a team that out executes us, was a big factor! We aren't there yet, but it's surprising how close we are.

Watching the game, outside of Curry, I thought we matched up well talent wise, and just enough to make their depth not an issue for one game, but the combination of inexperience and a back to back, was just too much!

We'll see what SVG does because in a 7 game series, lack of depth is a killer, if the other team has it!

Even though nobody stops Curry, KCP played some of the best defense I've seen on him, and he even impressed the Warrior talking heads, who are praising both KCP and the Pistons because they rarely see a team give them that much trouble on their own court!
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Loosing Loosers!

Post  FlyDog on Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:25 am

I told you guys this team SUCKS! WC trip, 2nd game of a back to back against the undefeated world champs............this is the type of game where REAL teams step up and show some guts!

Just kidding.........I had this one penned in permanent marker as a loss before it even started. Again, WC games start way too late for me at this point in my life, but it looks like we did put up a fight. Good to see The Stanimal bust loose and perhaps gain some confidence going forward.
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Offense vs Defense. Offense won this time..

Post  Phil1980boy on Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:15 am

This game was over when Reggie Jackson got injured. I thought Stan should had pull KCP, Morris and Drummonds at 4:00 minutes in the 4th qtr.

I did not want to see Reggie back out on the floor after he went down.

I will tell you A guy I really like. The other kid the Pistons drafted (Hillard) I think?? I would like to see him get some burn.

We got to find A way to cut some minutes for KCP and Morris. I would like to see the Pistons hit the trade market soon or give Bullock A second look. I need to see if that kid can bring something to the table. But he needs A opportunity.

If Reggie did not go down Detroit would had made this game interesting at the end. But it's all good. Good game by S.Johnson. The day will come where this kid is kicking some serious AZZ...

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Good news & Bad news...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:04 am

Bad News: We lost convincingly by the score, but we did put up a good fight! The 2nd unit was better than theirs, but their starters were better than ours... that was the game!

The Good News: We played a very competitive game against the World Champs, who do play a very strong brand of defense along with the best offense this poster has ever seen! As a matter of fact, I'm not sure Curry is human, even though KCP did one hell of a job on him tonight!

The other good news is Morris & KCP continue to play very well, and I'm really getting impressed with KCP, because he's scoring while playing some of the best defense he's played!

If he can keep this up, Stanley Johnson may have just figured out what's going on, dropping 20 points and 7 boards on the Warriors! Ok, a few of those were in somewhat garbage time, or more accurately when the game was pretty much decided, but it was only about 3 points, so the kid really had a good game!

Why is this important? Well, if we have the following,
1. Reggie & Drummond, we know what we're getting there
2. Morris is now a solid contributor,
3. KCP is now delivering quality on both ends of the court,
4. and now Stanley starts to step up

All of a sudden, we've got a core group of 5 players that can deliver nightly, with Jennings coming back... that's one hell of a team!

My biggest disappointment is Illy, who seems damn near invisible!

SVG may really need to do something there because his calling card was his offense, specifically his ability to stretch the floor, and he's not delivering very much!

Too early to call him a bust, but he's damn sure impersonating one!

BTW, I'm still trying to figure out WTF Steve Blake was thinking when we were trying to come back, he dribbles right into two Warriors and lets them take the ball with multiple Pistons begging his dumb ass to pass the rock!
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Winnable Game

Post  BallinD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:28 pm

Last time we played them, we held Curry to 9 points (his average of 17.4 over the past four seasons.

Last time we played them, Drummond had a 22 pt, 27 rb game.

Do we match up good with them? Do they take us for granted?

They didn't play well in their last game vs Sactown, slumping to 41.3 % shooting and winning 103-94.

Keep it going, boys!
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