Some trade talk

[Phil-Good]

It's funny because everybody on the net is talking about how the Pistons should wait to pull off A deal in the summer.

When ever has Detroit been A big time free agent player? NEVER! If Detroit can land A guy now, get him!

[Oracle]

Seb, you're letting your desire to win more, since you can't argue any case that says we aren't already winning, to overrule your logic and common sense.

Here's three pieces of logic that should help you drop this trade idea(I won't even go into the ugly visual of Drummond playing next to Cauley-Stein).

1. The Kings are in 10th place in a weaker conference: Why would we want to acquire the two main players leading a team that's doing worse than we are, and doing it against weaker opponents?
   
2. Supporting Cast: The supporting cast of the Pistons & the Kings are close, we may have a slight edge, but it's within the margin of error. The logic says that those 2 would do no better with our guys than they're doing with the guys they already have. In fact, the odds are better than even that they will do worse!
   
3. This is where your logic falls completely apart: Who in their right mind would trade for Andre Drummond, knowing that he would be an unrestricted free agent after the season is over! The feeding frenzy would be enormous, and the Kings would likely be the last place he would sign!
   

Sorry, just because the numbers work, doesn't mean the trade makes any sense in the real world.

As I said to you before, after the season, anything is possible, even a sign and trade, but I still give this move a thumbs down, even though I have to admit I would want Cousins playing next to Dre! I no longer have any interest in Rondo!

[Sebastian]

Let's see. OUR starting PG has only one (1) assist and OUR starting Center is 1-9 from the line and WE lose by 4 at home to a far more well defined Eastern Conference foe.

Okay, will my fellow Pistons Pals, now, consider a trade of Reggie, Dre', Joel Anthony, and Dinwiddie for Cousins and Rondo.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=z4seb82

I hear Oracle et. al. talking about development and blah,  blah, blah, but WE don't have time to wait for Reggie to learn how to run a team or wait for Dre' to hopefully become a better FT shooter. (Note: Dre's ineffectiveness from the Line has a direct affect on his play from all other areas on the floor.)

GM Stan get dumb azz Vlade on the phone, now, and make the aforementioned offer.

WE get a bonafide stud at the PF/C, mostly Center in my opinion that would rule the East and a sho' nuf Floor General and defender in Rondo. WE also get the Bird Rights to Rondo and I would be willing to offer him $15 a year, while also resigning Jennings to somewhere between $10-$12.

With Rondo running Point, WE instantly have a PG, who can define and distribute the ball to OUR scorers. Cousins would intimidate the hell out of opposing Centers and PFs. When he (Cousins chooses to play out front, it would create space for Morris to play his post game, abusing smaller sized SFs.). Or, WE can have Cus and Baynes on the floor together, when WE need to go big, against bigger teams.

Yes, OUR Pistons have gotten better, but WE are never going to be better than a couple of games better than .500 with Reggie and Dre'.

[FlyDog]

Move the ball please.

[Oracle]

It's fools gold because when teams get so far up on you, they put in 2nd teams or ease up and you think you're doing something, but it's not real!

Having said that, IMO, it's simply a question of putting it all together!

By that I mean getting both the bench and the starters playing well at the same time, but that also implies that they're also giving a consistent effort most night! If they can get even close to that, then it's easier for one unit to pick up the other unit on off nights!

There's a lot of promise, but it's not as easy as it seems and will take time, but that means that they can't let any games against equal or lesser teams get away from them!

One thing Don didn't point out, but that has become a trend... KCP has become the most consistent Piston! I'm a big KCP fan, but that's surprising even to me.

What's also surprising is that right behind KCP sits Stanley Johnson, who is beginning to become a steady scorer and defender!

So it's not rocket science, somehow we need to get all of the pieces of this engine working together... I guess they call that experience, maturity, chemistry, whatever, but once we find it, look out!

[cool breeze]

That group never gave up regardless of the score. I saw it in Stanley Johnson's eyes when the Pistons were down by 18. That is when he wanted to show all Piston fans that he plans to keep his promise and play like the Bad Boys. He used his body to move opposing bodies. His effort is off the charts.

Jennings did exactly what I had hoped for in this game. He was aggressive on the defensive end and made a huge impact on offense.

I should mention Morris who gave a outstanding effort in this game as well.

The experiment playing Jennings and Jackson together did not go so well. The big weakness is lack of ability to defend the 2 guard position. And Jackson had another off game but did play hard.

The player I was disappointed with was of course Andre Drummond. He failed to play smart especially on defense. I could tell on the opening tip that Andre was going to mail in this game. He was walking on defense on Toronto's first possession looking much like a spectator. He played hard at times but hurt the team much more than he helped them.

Detroit missed twelve foul shots in the first half. It looks like our team wants to keep that position as the worst free throw shooting team in the NBA. Look at the final score players and then look at your free throw percentage or the points that you let down down the toilet.

What a great pick up of Cory Joseph by Toronto. That guy ran circles around the entire Piston team. But with Andre Drummond's mind somewhere else, all of the Toronto players had the courage to get deep into the paint. Joseph was persistent and kept attacking the rim but our big man always seemed to be in a fog on defense.

Two tough losses but it is very encouraging to see a lot of the Piston players fighting hard and never giving up. Detroit needs to get on a lucky streak. Every team has at least one streak in them. Right now the team might be short handed but I see the chemistry building in a positive way. Go Pistons!

[cool breeze]

Yeah, we fought hard in the 4th, but two things hurt us badly in this one!

1. The Cavs shot was working very well, when a team is hot like that, it's tough to win.
2. When the opposing PG is beating your PG that badly, your defense is, well, defenseless!

Reggie got schooled, hell, my ass is hurting from the ass whooping he laid on Reggie!

But you're right, we have a damn good SF team in Morris and Stanley! I don't expect them to be able to handle LeBron, but I do expect them to fight, and neither of them is intimidated, and that's important for the future.

The only player in the league that absolutely owns LeBron is Leonard, he wins every matchup with him easily!

Morris likely won't get any better against him, but Stanley will. Too bad that when Stanley is ready, LeBron will be fading badly!

Having said that, we're rising, but not yet ready to be the top dog... no shame in that!

BTW, KCP is really becoming a solid player, I'm really impressed with his offense and defense! Nice block on LeBron, and a sweet 3 pointer getting the foul on Love!

Good post Oracle. I enjoyed everything you wrote. The Pistons were beaten at the point guard and power forward spots. But the team gave a great effort and I thought a comeback was possible deep into the 4th quarter. Cleveland played an amazing game and shot the lights out all night.

Jackson struggled offensively last night. He had been pretty sharp the previous two games so I know he was disappointed that the basketball Gods were not kind. More important this is the 2nd time that Jackson has been completely embarrassed on defense. The first of course was the performance by the Spurs point guard at the Palace not that long ago. Reggie is a work in progress as a defender and will need some special attention by the coaches in the off season. I hope he makes the adjustment because he is capable of becoming an outstanding defender with those long arms and his quickness. Imagine down the line if Jackson does get himself up to the standard of Pope and Johnson? Then we have three outstanding defensive athletes who can also play offense well. It is clear that Jackson wants to be a leader and he wants to win more than a lot of players in the league. Come on Reggie! Show everyone that you are a complete basketball player. We have faith in you.

This was not all on Reggie relating to point guard issues. I just am not seeing that Jennings is playing winning basketball right now. It appears that he has zero confidence in his outside shooting ability. While Brandon does get other players involved in the offense and passes well and moves well, he doesn't look like a real threat to score. Will SVG insert Steve Blake if nothing changes or ride with Jennings and hope he is playing up to his ability as the games become even more important? I like the fact that Jennings is playing more team orientated basketball relating to playing better on defense and passing the basketball to the open man. If he can find his mojo relating to shooting the basketball when he is open, then this team will be greatly improved. Last night Jennings did not play defense any better than Jackson so he slipped a bit from his previous games in that area.

Drummond played one hell of a game against the Cavs. It is obvious that being selected to the All Star game has inspired this young man. For the Pistons to make the playoffs, it will be necessary for Drummond to give this kind of effort for the remainder of the games. I still have my doubts that this team will make the playoffs this season. There are few if any easy games for this team. It is necessary to get some favorable matchup games to sting together a good winning streak. There are no cup cake teams in the Eastern conference anymore. Even Philly is playing amazing basketball now. And tonight our Pistons face Toronto on a back to back. The travel thing makes the legs tired. Did the team leave for Toronto directly after the game or did they fly there today?

[Oracle]

Yeah, we fought hard in the 4th, but two things hurt us badly in this one!

1. The Cavs shot was working very well, when a team is hot like that, it's tough to win.
2. When the opposing PG is beating your PG that badly, your defense is, well, defenseless!

Reggie got schooled, hell, my ass is hurting from the ass whooping he laid on Reggie!

But you're right, we have a damn good SF team in Morris and Stanley! I don't expect them to be able to handle LeBron, but I do expect them to fight, and neither of them is intimidated, and that's important for the future.

The only player in the league that absolutely owns LeBron is Leonard, he wins every matchup with him easily!

Morris likely won't get any better against him, but Stanley will. Too bad that when Stanley is ready, LeBron will be fading badly!

Having said that, we're rising, but not yet ready to be the top dog... no shame in that!

BTW, KCP is really becoming a solid player, I'm really impressed with his offense and defense! Nice block on LeBron, and a sweet 3 pointer getting the foul on Love!

[Go Stones!]

Loved how Morris put some feist and grit against Lebron. Did NOT back down. Also liked Stanimal's job on Lebron too.

Couldn't find an answer to Love and Reggie was embarrassed by Irving.

Could have used some points from Jennings. 0 points in significant minutes. He had a foot injury...had plenty of time to practice his shots.

[FlyDog]

I know that the Lakers are terribly dysfunctional with their retiring superstar, and then a mix of young guys and street bums filling out the rest of the roster. And I know Russell is only 19. But I saw him get his pocket picked by Jimmy Butler on back-to-back possessions last night. That tells me that he is mentally lacking. He is also physically tiny in relation to other NBA players. In my opinion, I think he takes the Sebastian Telfair career path.

[Oracle]

Lakers listening to trade offers for D’Angelo Russell?

[Oracle]

Then



Now

[Sebastian]

Donates $10 million dollars to the water relief efforts in Flint.

Sho' you right Tom (Jones) Gores!!!

Big ups to the Pistons owner!

[Sebastian]

Against a short-handed and already inept roster that WE should have beaten ... a chicken soup opponent, indeed.

But, hopefully Dre' has regain some confidence, after shooting 58% from the line with a 28 and 18 night. But, it is like one of OUR Piston Pals noted, Dre is going to have to become much more fierce on the defensive end of the floor. Hell, Nerlens Noel yoked Dre' once and had a 20 point game against OUR big man and was talking about how he has learned to play effectively against Dre' over the years.

Reggie was able to enjoy his chicken soup, too, against an inferior backcourt.

But, OUR boy Stanley is getting better and better, before OUR collective eyes.

Next up, the puck azz Cavs at the Palace (Friday).

DETROIT BASKETBALL!!!

[FlyDog]

Didn't watch, but the 15 assists is what jumped out at me in the box score. 6 assists from our starting 5. Good to see Reggie and Andre finally do something.

[Oracle]

While it was great to see Drummond go 7/12 from the FT line, hack a whoever has officially hit the ridiculous! You're not going to believe what went on in the league last night, and if this is allowed to continue, the sport is in deep yogurt!

Can you believe this??? Hacking a player that's out of bounds... queue the Twilight Zone music!!!


Here's a very good article on how bad it's getting: NBA Teams Have Found Creative New Ways To Intentionally Foul

[Oracle]

The Sixers played 3 games in 4 nights, and came here on a back to back and really took it to our guys... WTF is up with that???

Of course they ran out of gas in the 4th and we took control, but why in the world do we struggle to focus so much? Another 30 point 3rd quarter for the opposing team... this is getting ridiculous!

The good news is that Stanley really got off, and Reggie got his, but most of all Drummond was on his game, and shooting FT's like a guard (more on that in my next post).

We're going to have to get our act together with Cleveland and Toronto coming up!

Edit: One last thing, we had more personal fouls(19) than assists(15) last night... that's pathetic!!!

[cool breeze]

I never doubted that Andre practices shooting free throws. He is a paid professional so it is logical that he does shoot free throws before and after games and during the off season. But I still have this vision of Andre standing at the foul line with both of those big hands around the basketball looking as if he has no feel for the shot. Could Andre hit 7 out of 10 shots with his current technique from 5 feet away from the rim? Could he do that even in a practice situation? I can't see how he could. He looks like a beginner who has had no instruction. No finger tip control of the ball just the flat of the big hand with of course the other off hand never letting go when the ball is released. I would say that the Piston shooting coach should be evaluated if he approves of Andre's technique.

The bigger problem with Andre does not involve the missed free throws or the fear involved in Andre's mind before he releases the shot. Picking on Andre Drummond by other teams and all the media attention about his missed free throws has affected the rest of Andre's game. He needs to use this drama in a more positive way and kick ass and take names on the defensive end to stop the laughter. Go Andre!

[Phil-Good]

Oracle. Yes the Pistons have some in house problem. but I say Brandon Jennings needs to shut the F.U.C.K. UP. He got 1 foot out the door and Jackson is the captain of this ship anyways.

So let's hope Detroit can make A trade and land something for Jennings before he jumps-ship.

[Oracle]

Late last night, news broke that Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin may have suffered a broken right hand during a “undisclosed team-related incident.” Since then, more details have emerged, with multiple news outlets saying Griffin hurt his hand in an altercation with a member of the Los Angeles Clippers’ equipment staff outside a restaurant in Toronto.

[Oracle]

RIP Abe Vigoda!

[cool breeze]

Our Pistons shot 16 for 33 at the foul line and somehow won the game. Andre Drummond did not miss all of those foul shots. Our Pistons are the worst free throw shooting team in the league. Other Pistons have caught the Andre Drummond Flu.

[cool breeze]

I'll take it, even if it was closer than it should have been!

Right now, Baynes is easily the best center on the team, Drummond really looked like a POS on both ends of the court!

He looked like a fool trying to defend anybody in the post, looking like his old self and getting pump faked out of the gym!

I think Dre is regressing and losing confidence, and it starts at the FT line because it makes him useless to this team! Sadly as, I believe Don said, you almost can't play him in the playoffs!

Drummond doesn't deserve to be an all star, but I really hope he makes it!

While Baynes didn't have his usual dependable shooting touch especially in the first half, he still played his floor game like a real pro unlike Andre Drummond. You are right Oracle about Andre regressing back to his college days and his first two seasons as a Piston. I was saying that to myself and was hoping somehow Drummond would snap out of his funk and play like he knew what the hell is is supposed to offer his team. If only Drummond would concentrate really hard on defense his offense would come. But it is clear that Andre has way over estimated his offensive capability. He is taking too long getting his shot off in the paint. He cannot be an effective driver if he can't make free throws. He continues to shoot the ball with 2 hands like an idiot. The opposing announcers said before the game that Andre was practicing before tip off shooting the ball at the foul line with one hand. Why didn't he try that in the actual game or at least release the ball with his shooting hand? The Pistons shooting coach must be losing a lot of sleep trying to coach our big man. If he signs with Detroit this summer, I suspect that he will have finally learned his lesson and come back shooting at least 50% next year. But he is of little value to this Piston team the way he is currently playing basketball. This should show folks that stats mean next to nothing relating to winning basketball games. You don't win if you don't have smart players. Andre at this point in time is not a smart player. But he is capable of becoming a lot smarter so we must hope he turns things around. I was a bit upset with SVG in the 4th when Utah was intentionally fouling the worst free throw shooter in NBA history. He needs to get a timeout immediately instead of screwing around for 3 possessions.

Without Reggie Jackson's great performance our Pistons would have lost even though Utah was stinking the arena up for all but half of the 4th quarter. Reggie was brilliant as the Utah announcers continued to point out throughout the game. Way to bounce back Reggie! My only negative thought was that Jackson was trying to hard to get Drummond going and forced some passes that were not there for Andre.

This was a sloppy game all around by both teams. We got some good 3 point shooting from both Illy and Tolliver to help Reggie out. Those big shots in crunch time were huge by Tolliver. Excellent job!

Morris played horribly for the entire game until the last two possessions where he picked up his defense. Pope had a similar outing but played tough defense for the entire game. KCP is going through another shooting funk but I like his emotion and energy regardless of his poor shooting luck. Johnson found the first player that he couldn't guard in Rodney Hood. Pope came to the rescue and did a much better job. Johnson had a sub par game in many areas but I never worry about his long term value to the Detroit Pistons.

Since Brandon Jennings made his comments on lack of leadership, he has played really poorly. He certainly is not a leader right now and is just tying to hold on to his spot in the rotation which I believe should go to Steve Blake. Jennings has not been a scoring threat lately. Blake pushes the basketball faster and makes better passes and can shoot from distance. Oh and Blake plays better defense. Stan needs to play Jennings to determine his value. Brandon is still getting his legs in shape to play this fast moving game. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out for our Piston team. But right now Jennings is not providing that spark off the bench we had all hoped for.

We can't forget that our Pistons had a lot of things go wrong last night. The game was not easy for the players offensively but most of the players including Reggie Jackson, played their asses off on defense. They got a tough win against a team that played horribly for most of the game. Right now our Pistons do not look like a playoff team. Our guys need some home cooking and need to forget all the bad moments of the last few games and get back on track and bring high energy. I hope the fans have not lost interest. We can't forget that most of our players are extremely young and must go through the down times and learn from their mistakes. The best advise for young players is to tell them to play harder and bring more energy when things are not going your way. Will Andre ever make that change???

[Oracle]

I'll take it, even if it was closer than it should have been!

Right now, Baynes is easily the best center on the team, Drummond really looked like a POS on both ends of the court!

He looked like a fool trying to defend anybody in the post, looking like his old self and getting pump faked out of the gym!

I think Dre is regressing and losing confidence, and it starts at the FT line because it makes him useless to this team! Sadly as, I believe Don said, you almost can't play him in the playoffs!

Drummond doesn't deserve to be an all star, but I really hope he makes it!

[cool breeze]

Teams like the Spurs have been winning long after Mr. BigShots team was destroyed by management know how to focus on each specific game and find the one big weakness that they can exploit. Piston fans can accept losing to the really good teams but now after such a long sour spell we Piston fans want more from our players. We do not want to accept lazy inept play or mentally weak players wearing the Piston uniform. But lately even the bad NBA teams seem to know how to get under the skin of our starters no less. Yes our starters are showing individual weaknesses against players who usually get their asses beat. Those bad teams get up and look forward to playing the Pistons. And so do their coaches. So what is going on with this Piston team? It looks like some of the players who are struggling to live up to their self described images are getting snippy. Now coach Van Gundy has to worry about pissing them off. That is the way of the NBA. Those who struggle in the actual games who still believe they are great without putting in the actual hard work, have to blame someone. We are all used to past players blaming coaching staffs when things go into the toilet. Then of course there are the refs. I personally like what Stanley Johnson said last week. He is not used to losing like some of our players who think they should be starting in the All Star game. This reminds me of Charlie V who stated more than once "losing is not about our talent". No Charlie losing is the result of being a lazy ass faker who has no pride in actually doing the right thing on the basketball court.

Right now we have Reggie Jackson who has not shown that he can guard a starting NBA point guard. Remember the last Tony Parker matchup?? If you get destroyed like that, you have a difficult time forgetting how much you suck on defense. The Spurs picked on Reggie and decided he was the guy who was the weak link on the Piston team that night. My issue is that Reggie has not picked up his defensive effort one bit since the Spurs game. Reggie must think if I win the game at the end with some lucky low percentage shot, then everyone will forget that I didn't give an honest effort on defense. Keep the trap shut Reggie and get as much coaching advise that you can possibly get and then do what they are telling you to do. Only then will Reggie Jackson be a true Piston and a leader. I am not down on Reggie Jackson. I just want him to grow up into a great basketball player he is capable of becoming.

Andre Drummond has been picked on by almost every NBA team so far even if they are bad teams. What in hell has to be going on in Andre's mind or his mind last summer when he could have figured out the free throw shot. But what is worse is the fact that when opposing teams do employ the Hack a Drummond option, Drummond changes his entire demeanor when running the court and playing defense. He slows down to a trickle like a rusty faucet with low water pressure. He looks at times like Charlie V running the court. No wonder opposing coaches pick on Andre. It is not just about the missed free throws. It is about screwing with Andre's mind relating to all other aspects of his game. When are you going to wise up Mr. Drummond. Play hard all the time. Be a man not a kid. Again, Drummond can become a great player but does he know it? Does he want it?

It is not a good sign when when our Pistons lose to bad teams during the tough part of the season in January and Feb. That is the time when character shows or doesn't show. I look at Toronto and that nice winning streak they have put together. How are those players doing it? They have heat character and chemistry. Are those players bitching out the coaching staff or the refs? It is a good thing that Mr. Gores has given special powers to SVG. Otherwise we might be seeing a repeat of the 5 seasons before SVG was hired. Are the Spurs players talking back to their coach? Come on some of your Piston players and get the lead out of your asses and play some defense. Play harder than your opponent. That is the only way to success. Van Gundy threw the players a bone with his statements about the coaches needing to get better as well as the players. That is a good statement but I am sure the coaches have gone over the pick and roll defense about 10,000 times so far. It takes effort to play defense. If you don't play defense hard you don't win. Two of our starters fake it on defense too much. Can anyone guess who those players are???

While my post is negative, I still like the possibilities of this group of players. And I am really enjoying all the great posts today from others. Way to go Piston fans!

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