You Aint Got No Alibi

[FlyDog]

Well this has certainly gotten ugly. I don't blame SVG for the Jackson trade......worth taking a look at. And if Jackson wants to sign at something like 6 years $150,000, he might be worth it. He just might go for that, because that's more than he'll make flipping burgers somewhere.........where he belongs. This guy stinks.

[Sissy1946]

Sparma,  You nailed it about Reggie jackson, I noticed to about his dribbling & with 5 turnovers with no assists, I'm not happy about that what he's brought to this team & don't care what he did in Oklahoma, this is a different team & I give him a D- since he's been here & Reggie QUIT your Freakin' Dribbling & Stan get him a Shooting Coach.
My 2nd thought is in agreement with DeusXango about KCP, WTF has happened to him & why in the hell is he still starting? He missed three lay ups tonight & took a stupid shot late in the game when they had a fast break & he just ripped a 3 pointer up that hit the other side of the backboard  shooting from the right of the free throw line, Stan Van Gundy, get him out of the starting line up, you must see this crap to, talk about embarrassing & KFC was 0-5 from the field making one point at the free throw line, 27 minutes of useless basketball, one of the worst inconsistently inconsistent players on the team & Van Loser rewards him by starting him in every one of those ten straight losses, I don't get it here with what he's trying to do.
if a player can't handle it you change it Stan Van Gundy not keep rewarding him, what's that say to the other players you have on the team, these two players are Stinkin' it up in PistonLand & no one's holding them accountable, not SVG or Gores who's to busy passing out t-shirts.
Hey Tommy,  how about a t-shirt that says "I don't have a Clue what I'm doing". Am sure it would sell or else, "Can you believe our Fan's are Falling for this production on the Floor, I Can".
Loss #11 coming Tuesday against Memphis, the only games they have a chance to win is against Philly & Boston in their next 5 but the way their playing their not going to beat anybody, one more thing after hearing SVG at his presser, he took Reggie out because he didn't chase down that ball late in the game & he said he wouldn't tolerate that from him, well good on Ya Stan, that kind of BS shouldn't be tolerated, some trade so far hey Stan?

[deusXango]

The Wildcats are PAC-12 Champions and well on their way! First championship since 2002? If all goes well, they'll make some noise in the NCAA's and Stanley Johnson will be a Piston; just what we need, no matter what anybody says about his shortcomings, he's the real deal! Thanks for bringing me up to speed earlier in the season Don, so I could watch this young man grow by leaps & bounds....he's a stud.

[deusXango]

Great game assessment Sparma, and more importantly, an honest insight into what Jackson's worth should be to us, going forward; don't pay for potential when more red flags are prevalent than competitive nuggets. Dinwiddie has the potential and if we get 80% of Jennings back, I'd go with them as 1 & 2.

KCP is beginning to turn me completely off, as is Meeks. For two young guys they're being matched by the old dogs (Prince and Butler) in production and have nowhere near the wisdom of how the game is played....this team looks worse and worse with each game played.

Moose? Meh!

All I can say is SVG/Bower has their work cut out for themselves.

[Sparma]

With Drummond leaving at the half with a concussion, the only other player I saw out there tonight who gave genuine hope was Spencer Dinwiddie.

Anyone can have an off night, but Reggie Jackson was awful running the offense.  Can't remember a PG ever having 0 assists and 5 TOs.  Something I noticed is how poor he is in traffic: in the first half, he dribbled (which he does way too much of) into a crowd leading to a TO; in the second half he found himself in traffic, not surprisingly getting the ball tapped away from behind (even at my mediocre level of play someone's supposed to help by calling out "Wolf"); he got surrounded by two people, including Gobert and turned the ball over again.   Some offensive players will punish double teams; Reggie showed little or no intuition in dealing with traps.  Even worse, the offense looked totally disorganized as he ran it.   I haven't given up hope on him, but I'm having difficulty projected him as a star PG.  He's more of a solid 3rd guard and should be paid as such.  I hope the Pistons don't overpay (again) for players this summer. If he's already turned down a 48 mil/ 4 year offer by OKC, I doubt he staying for what I might see as reasonable (27 mil, 3
years).

Dinwiddie impressed, as reflected in his 6 assists in 20 minutes, with 0 TOs.  As soon as he entered late in the game, with the Pistons down 6, the offense jelled.  The offense showed promising patterns. Movement was being paid off.  Others (like Prince) got in on the movement.  Spencer's quick tap/ relay passes worked several times.  I love that he's a big, pass first, PG.  But can he shoot enough to make it big in the NBA?  Does his explosiveness/ handle suffice to keep the D off balance?  The D already backed away from him on at least one occasion; he hit a big outside shot (3 pointer I think).  Once he had Gobert in iso at medium range but couldn't get by him (Kelser excused him due to lack of space, but that's not what it looked like to me: Jennings surely would have blown by the big guy, who has a 9'7'' standing reach, btw).

Other Pistons played well: Joel Anthony, Prince (!!), and Tolliver, but who cares?   They don't matter for the future.  Monroe put up good scoring and rebounding numbers, but his horrible +/- score (barely worse than Jackson's) was richly deserved because he got schooled by Favors many times over.  I find it hard to root for him anyway, because he's likely gone.

One question that occurred to me is whether you'd rather have Dinwiddie or Trey Burke (who came in having shot 1 (or two) for 19)?  I'll take Dinwiddie, even though I think Burke can have a decent NBA career (he does score, and he can pass, but D and shooting don't look good).  So that was one good move by SVG.

Incidentally, Okur gave a gracious interview, praising Piston fans (from back in the day, at least) as well as his Piston teammates.

Utah's got much more reason to hope, I think.

[Sissy1946]

Singler is GONE.
Jerebko is GONE.
Datome is GONE.
Augustin is GONE.
Let's move on, okay? This is a wonderful site where adults, such as us highly intelligent fans (what'd you expect me to say?), can "kick the can," while we run the universe of NBA basketball and along the way, we more often than not, have differences of opinion; there's no love lost, nor is there any disrespect, but true to the spirit of the game, we trash talk and only the weak of mind fall by the wayside. We all have our favorites and there are players we can't get to, for various reasons, but at the end of the day what we're stuck with is each other. Let's move on.

Jackson is HERE.
Prince is HERE.
Williams is HERE.
Lucas III is HERE.
Miller is HERE.
The question is or should be, who's satisfied with the trade off and why? I got mixed emotions. Lucas III when we have Dinwiddie? WTF is Williams doing here and getting clock? Prince? Another corpse stinking up the place. Like I said before, he makes me miss Singler! Augustin for Jackson, I feel makes sense; we're losing with Jackson, but we weren't winning with Augustin....Jackson is insurance for an uncertain future, but damn! I've never said Miller should start, but I question the intelligence of continuing to play Prince, Butler, Martin, and Williams ahead of him...I mean what's the purpose of signing him, and wasting press time talking about how much you see in him, but won't allow the fans to see anything
I've been accused of giving it to SVG for taking a chance that backfired and that's as far from the truth as one can get; I've consistently voiced my personal displeasure at him for not taking chances (signing Robert Covington, giving Datome the clock he promised, bringing Singler off the bench with Datome for instant offense while starting Jerebko, not playing Dinwiddie, and now, not playing Miller), chances that wouldn't have our hopes of the playoffs, if they failed, any dimmer than they are right now! I'm amazed that only a few fans see that SVG consistently makes decisions that leaves him open for criticism when they got south and for the most part, they do! I have one question for Don and Oracle; how is improvement on what this team was being measured this year? I'm not taking a shot, but trust you guys valued opinion.

Am right there Bangin' the Drum

I to am not suggesting that Miller get anything he doesn't deserve but if there's a right time to develop him more then why not right now as the Piston's are getting ready to go down to their 10th straight defeat, no one's saying he's better than Butler, Prince, Williams, Martin but what an opportunity to find out some things & also make the coach look like he knows what he's doing instead of leaving them sitting in the desert like he did Datome & Jerebko who at least are getting some time which SVG wouldn't do while they were here but even if Luigi's & JJ's 15 minutes are up the Boston coach is using his Brass Ballz to still play them.
Talk about corpses Deus, you hit it on the head, why is Williams, Lucas & even Prince on this team now, these players are a waste of space & to not give Miller even a little sniff over them is ridiculous. If it's for the future then let's find out a little bit now, bottom line is its only fair & the kicker is what does SVG have to lose, the fans would like to see a glimpse & see what he has now instead of waiting for the summer, true he isn't nothing & there are a lot of question marks but with all the losing going on around here it would be a breath of fresh air.
Let's see here: he can play him now or wait till the Summer League, he has the confidence in him to keep him he says but will not give up any playing time of the great Princess, Butler, Williams or Cartier, Wow!
If he's decent in the summer league that means he's still going to have to get some game time experience so why not now when things have already hit rock bottom. That's my last post on this, just thought common sense would come into play or the let's do this now because of the situation were in. Moving on now: Will the Pistons win tonight: Ahh No, Not with Prince, Williams, Lucas & Martin on the team.

[deusXango]

Singler is GONE.
Jerebko is GONE.
Datome is GONE.
Augustin is GONE.
Let's move on, okay? This is a wonderful site where adults, such as us highly intelligent fans (what'd you expect me to say?), can "kick the can," while we run the universe of NBA basketball and along the way, we more often than not, have differences of opinion; there's no love lost, nor is there any disrespect, but true to the spirit of the game, we trash talk and only the weak of mind fall by the wayside. We all have our favorites and there are players we can't get to, for various reasons, but at the end of the day what we're stuck with is each other. Let's move on.

Jackson is HERE.
Prince is HERE.
Williams is HERE.
Lucas III is HERE.
Miller is HERE.
The question is or should be, who's satisfied with the trade off and why? I got mixed emotions. Lucas III when we have Dinwiddie? WTF is Williams doing here and getting clock? Prince? Another corpse stinking up the place. Like I said before, he makes me miss Singler! Augustin for Jackson, I feel makes sense; we're losing with Jackson, but we weren't winning with Augustin....Jackson is insurance for an uncertain future, but damn! I've never said Miller should start, but I question the intelligence of continuing to play Prince, Butler, Martin, and Williams ahead of him...I mean what's the purpose of signing him, and wasting press time talking about how much you see in him, but won't allow the fans to see anything?!

I've been accused of giving it to SVG for taking a chance that backfired and that's as far from the truth as one can get; I've consistently voiced my personal displeasure at him for not taking chances (signing Robert Covington, giving Datome the clock he promised, bringing Singler off the bench with Datome for instant offense while starting Jerebko, not playing Dinwiddie, and now, not playing Miller), chances that wouldn't have our hopes of the playoffs, if they failed, any dimmer than they are right now! I'm amazed that only a few fans see that SVG consistently makes decisions that leaves him open for criticism when they got south and for the most part, they do! I have one question for Don and Oracle; how is improvement on what this team was being measured this year? I'm not taking a shot, but trust you guys valued opinion.

[Oracle]

Continue to back SVG the coach and Van Gundy the President of Basketball Operations, and hope for a lucky bounce of the lottery balls, with all the bad karma  he's stored up for the team.

"Stan the Man" knows best, right; he can do no wrong, it's all on the team not doing it's best....they just won't play defense.

Stan took a chance and it backfired big time, but at least it was an educated shot at saving the season!

It's a whole lot smarter than complaining about Josh Smith, and swearing he wasn't a problem! It took just a little knowledge to figure out it wasn't about raw talent, it was about FIT! Even casual fans got it, but we know who didn't...

Oh yeah, it's the same guys that wanted Singler gone! AGAIN, it wasn't about talent as much as it was about FIT!!!

On paper the Jackson trade looked good, and IMO, just like Jennings, the fit will come, it just may not come this season, although I did like the way he produced last night. He had a good balance between scoring and assists.

As I remember, that's the way Jennings started his rise, and once he got comfortable distributing, he found the keys to the car and started racing us towards a 6th seed(which is where we likely would have been with him).

DX, it's just sad to see you get down on SVG for reasons other than the bad mistakes he makes, and he does make some bad ones! However crying in the corner and getting mad over fringe players not getting PT is ridiculous and beneath you!

I'd like to see QM get a LOT of PT, but if he doesn't, quite frankly Scarlett(and you pic is quite red) I don't give a Damn!

Honestly, I'd throw QM & Datome over for any decent player or a 3rd round pick, if they had one, they won't be moving the needle on any teams ability to go anywhere! News Flash: Last night Datome scored 3 points & JJ scored ZERO, their 15 minutes are up!

This is sort of like the 2nd string QB in football! He's the guy everybody thinks is better than the starting QB... until they actually make him the starter, then the cycle repeats!

There's nothing wrong about wanting these guys to play, what's wrong is getting pissed off at the organization and holding a grudge! Joe put the screws to a lot of players that I knew had potential, and these guys were 1st round picks, where do the guys you pine for come from?

[deusXango]

Continue to back SVG the coach and Van Gundy the President of Basketball Operations, and hope for a lucky bounce of the lottery balls, with all the bad karma he's stored up for the team.

"Stan the Man" knows best, right; he can do no wrong, it's all on the team not doing it's best....they just won't play defense.

[Phil-Good]

I don't care if we win 1 more game this season. All i care about now is improved play from KCP, Drummonds and Jackson. Along with great health.

All I'm looking for is A great bounce of the lottery balls. Detroit is due for the number 1 pick. It's our time.

I see A lot of posters mad because Miller is not getting any burn. The Pistons are not tanking right now so the kid will not see the floor if Butler, Prince, Williams and Martin are breathing. They all are ahead of Miller. HE will get his burn but it will be during full tank mode.

That's not happening right now....

[Sissy1946]

One trade sure goes a long way on whether you win or lose as the Pistons goes down to their well deserved 9th Straight Loss, not much of a fight tonight , maybe a little in the first quarter, Even Cartier Martin & Shawn Williams got some burn tonight but not our boy Quincey Miller who sat the bench again waiting for coach SVG to keep his word & give him some playing time in the Summer League, don't hold your breath Quince.
The Princess got his usual suspect 4 points on 2-5 shooting in 20 minutes, boy has this team gone to hell. Why KCP still starts is beyond questionable, Butler had a decent game for the Pistons tonight, Andre with 17 rebounds but the team as a whole Stunk it up again. Stan being a numb-nuts at the presser answering why they lost: " They were really good".

[Sissy1946]

Me to about Miller but as the coach play him for 3 games & if he goes well then great, if not then you've got your answer to what he needs in game time situations & if he grasps it faster than some think then that's great to, give him the chance.
Your theory about what SVG wants on his team is also concerning, I'm thinking so far & could change my mind here about Jackson, I don't think
I see what Stan thinks he see's, he thought they could continue winning & do it all for the sake of the future, well after tonight's 9th straight loss it makes you wonder a smidgen eh? Reggie first of all needs a shooting coach from what I've seen so far.
I to am worried about how he handles Dinwiddie, especially after the big game he had scoring 20 points then forgot him in favor for Lucas, John Lucas should not play anymore except for injury, see those are the things that scare me about Stan the Coach getting in the way of SVG the GM, to much power & stubbornness.

[cool breeze]

Sissy responds rationally about Datome and Jerebco advising that they are now getting their chance on a team other than the Pistons. Meanwhile, Augustin and Singler are sacrificing to the basketball gods for bringing them Augustin and Singler. To some of you, Kyle Singler is the devil who prevented your favorites from playing. I was upset that Jerebco was in and out of the rotation so many times. But he is a power forward because he has difficultly guarding quicker small forwards much like Josh Smith.

I could care less if our new addition Miller plays or doesn't play. If he plays, we have a better chance of losing more games so maybe that should be something Stan Van Gundy should think about. There are flaws in Miller's game that all other NBA coaches have observed. I have noticed some of his flaws watching television games. But that doesn't make me right or all of the NBA coaches right. Sissy you and others might be right and that is what is so great about the fans who love basketball.

Please keep this in mind when thinking about what kind of team Stan Van Gundy wants to put on the floor next season. Stan hates losing more than most people. He hates being attached to a losing team. You can bet that he is going to do something about the Pistons this off season. And for sure Stan The Man is going to secure a really good small forward. Will it be a Stanley Johnson type rookie who in my opinion is going to be an All Star NBA player? Or will Van Gundy go all out and do a trade to bring in a guy who other teams will fear? What he won't do is take a chance on a long shot next season. Miller is a long shot to even make an NBA club. If he gets to play for the rest of the season, I am for it and will pull for him.

While many of you are worried and waiting for Miller to get the bulk of playing time at small forward, I am wishing Spencer Dinwiddie gets the majority of playing time for the rest of the season at point guard. If any of you had seen what I have seen relating to Spencer Dinwiddie in person and not on television when he played in college, you would be pulling for him too. I watched this guy for 2 years and was amazed at his guts and smarts as a basketball leader. He can be an elite defender and run a team much better than either Jackson or Jennings. My hope is that Stan Van Gundy breaks with the trend of trying out shoot first selfish point guards who are not interested in defense. It is true that players at the other positions prefer point guards who enjoy setting them up with shots. We need better players playing center, power forward, small forward and shooting guard. If Van Gundy gets good two way players at those other positions who can really shoot the basketball consistently well, Spencer Dinwiddie would lead us to the championship. My worst fear is that Van Gundy has mis judged Dinwiddie and will cast him aside while banking on Jennings and Jackson next year. The bottom line is those two point guards might look good against high rated teams when those teams play back to back games and the other cannon fodder teams like the current Pistons. If Van Gundy banks on shoot first high scoring point guards who can't defend or won't give energy defending, then the good teams will shut down players like Jennings and Jackson. Jennings did play with an edge after Smith was released. He looked real good in fact. But that kind of player will get shut down in the long run when playoffs zero in and take away what teams like to do. Right now, I have no bond with any Piston player other than Spencer Dinwiddie. I see his potential. Meanwhile, I have watched the same two big men give up too many second chance opportunities simply because they are too lazy to box out. Our shooting guards are inconsistent on both ends of the floor. And now we have a really weak 2nd unit after the trades. It is OK with me if Van Gundy brings in 6 new players.

[Sissy1946]

I've been keeping an eye on SVG & have observed things that I just don't get with him including the ones I've mentioned, starting with the handling of both of  those players Datome & Jerebko, their still apart of that team to.
I've also observed his Powder Puff Line Ups  he keeps putting out from these players like they had before they were traded who were also out of position, where does Singler & KCP start on any team?
And now with KCP & Prince or now whatever he's doing with Butler, he may not have the players to put a reasonable line up out there but they have been struggling, with Miller it's not a real big deal that he plays over Prince or Butler but come on: the best way to find out what Quincey needs to do is to play him some minutes now, what's the big deal, we can find out a few answers right away the first three games. I'm stuck on that until proven why it isn't a good idea, Stan was proven wrong about Datome & Jerebko so why not give it a shot regardless what he's seen in practice, you'll find out more if he does play then not & I certainly don't care about Prince's or Butler's playing time, actually I was elated when they traded Prince & am not happy with him being back here, I guess it's who you like or don't like, to me he stops the flow of the game with his dribble left & right, fake left & right & put up a clunker. With 1 second left, ha! I'm not trying to be difficult here but we all have our idea's on what we believe is good for this team & mine is to find out now instead of waiting for the summer, give him some decent game time experience befire they lose 16-17-18 games in a row. Yep, that's what I'd do if I was the Coach & I would have also gave Datome & especially Jerebko more time to show their skills regardless of what he thought he saw in practice from them.

[Oracle]

You both have some great info there but I tried to use that realization when we had Datome & Jerebko & after seeing them get a chance my question was answered because of them getting that chance which SVG wouldn't give them, so my silence in him giving players fair chances doesn't fly with me, Datome & Jerebko have talent & didn't deserve to sit like they did, now does Miller deserve that & at the price of seeing broken down players take away minutes from someone that has talent?
I don't trust SVG or the way he judges talent, now you can say that Datome & Jerebko didn't do okay because of what they've shown in practice but Boston doesn't think that way & gave them both a chance, not SVG but Boston, so what does it hurt to play Miller a few games in the midst of a soon to be 9 game losing streak, no harm, no foul & couldn't SVG have blown this one to, everybody's thinking now that Jackson was a great trade & he himself thought he could get away with it & still win but now he's coming down off that dark cloud & saying different, why because of the losing?
He's blamed himself a lot lately for losing, sorry I just don't think he judges talent like a GM does & is getting in his own way, show me Miller, let him play, shut those few of us up about the practice/actual time on the court beliefs that some have, Stan hadn't shown me he knows better & Boston agrees. Play him, what's it hurt? Will Prince & Butler get upset? Neither one is playing good & a change might work & at least we'll find out just exactly what Quincey Miller needs to work on & not just Van Gundy's guess, he's been wrong before. Just one man's opinion on why I don't trust Van Gundy rhe Coach.

To be sure Datome & JJ got the shaft from SVG, there's no two ways about it, but QM is a TOTALLY different story!

SVG inherited Datome & JJ, but he CHOSE QM!

You don't need to trust SVG, you just need to observe why decisions are made and that allows you to distinguish the difference.

Have you EVER seen a player that SVG chose fail to get PT? Nuff Said!

[Sissy1946]

You both have some great info there but I tried to use that realization when we had Datome & Jerebko & after seeing them get a chance my question was answered because of them getting that chance which SVG wouldn't give them, so my silence in him giving players fair chances doesn't fly with me, Datome & Jerebko have talent & didn't deserve to sit like they did, now does Miller deserve that & at the price of seeing broken down players take away minutes from someone that has talent?
I don't trust SVG or the way he judges talent, now you can say that Datome & Jerebko didn't do okay because of what they've shown in practice but Boston doesn't think that way & gave them both a chance, not SVG but Boston, so what does it hurt to play Miller a few games in the midst of a soon to be 9 game losing streak, no harm, no foul & couldn't SVG have blown this one to, everybody's thinking now that Jackson was a great trade & he himself thought he could get away with it & still win but now he's coming down off that dark cloud & saying different, why because of the losing?
He's blamed himself a lot lately for losing, sorry I just don't think he judges talent like a GM does & is getting in his own way, show me Miller, let him play, shut those few of us up about the practice/actual time on the court beliefs that some have, Stan hadn't shown me he knows better & Boston agrees. Play him, what's it hurt? Will Prince & Butler get upset? Neither one is playing good & a change might work & at least we'll find out just exactly what Quincey Miller needs to work on & not just Van Gundy's guess, he's been wrong before. Just one man's opinion on why I don't trust Van Gundy rhe Coach.

[Oracle]

Stan Van Gundy is a stubborn ass man. He should be playing Quincy Miller, plain and simple!

To be clear on QM, he's pretty raw and light in the pants, but the talent is there given good coaching and time! He's a low risk guy to have around, so I like adding him to a young team. There's no way I would have wanted him before in a trade for real assets! Now that he's hit rock bottom, he's a good value!

Excuse me Oracle, but what did I miss? Quincy Miller actually got some PT here and showed to be pretty raw, and I missed it?! Damn. Here I am thinking that he'd be a breath of fresh air and would've established himself as being more than a low risk guy to have around, if he was given the clock Singler, Butler, and Prince have had; he wouldn't have stunned the NBA world, but neither did any of the Pistons who've manned the SF position for us.

I got a problem downgrading players without actually seeing them for myself and when in comparison it'd be damn near impossible for them to underperform their predecessors, not to mention on a team that has more "meh" players than decent ones, and the record reflects just that.

I hope you don't fall off!
If I do, I'll take comfort in the fact that the fall is shorter than the mountain top on which some sit.  

Maybe you haven't been watching the NBA, or don't have league pass, but if you did, maybe you wouldn't miss so much!
That was my whole point, I don't have League Pass therefore I haven't seen QM play, only heard the negative assessments of his qualifications. - REMEMBER this statement later!

Yes, you missed a LOT, the kid is as RAW as they come, he's light in the ass, AND he's a effing tweener!
I can tell by the posted picture of him standing next to two guards that he's light in the ass, but I couldn't determine all the things you shared with me pertaining to his game.

Just because you don't know, you shouldn't assume that others are in the same boat! QM isn't effective guarding SF's and he's way to light to play against PF's, so the first thing that has to be done is to figure out where he heading as he matures. Will he pick up the speed to deal with SF's, or will he bulk up and be a PF... who knows? I'm sure you don't, that's why you're complaining about something that shouldn't be a issue, but you want to make it into one!
No I don't know if he'll pick up speed (The Moose hasn't) or bulk up (look how long it's taken Prince to add a few pounds and I wouldn't call that bulked up), so you're right.

You make an assumption and run off making claims based on that false assumption! I said NOTHING to downgrade the player, I simply stated what SVG and everybody else knows, and that's why QM was thrown on the last gasp trash heap!
Sometimes I forget that you speak for us all; everybody knows that the D-League is the "last gasp trash heap"....Whiteside, Covington, and our own Lucas III are last gaspers (to name a few), but they all have gotten some PT and that I did see. - DX, what percentage of players in the D-League make it in the NBA? Seriously, are you saying that super small percentage means that the VAST majority aren't there to be practice players and fodder for rookies? It's the Elephant Grave Yard dude!

BTW, Singler and Prince EARNED what they're getting, QM hasn't earned SQUAT, unless your undying man love is taken into account
I saw Prince earn his stripes, years ago, contributing on a winner, but WTF has Singler earned? To me and I'm speaking for myself, he was gifted more so than earned a shot to get his ass kicked at both SG and SF....talk about ineffective tweeners.     I would have been more humbled if you had used Butler as an example of earning what they're getting. - Wow, do we need you to tell us the sun comes up? I know you don't like it, and I don't know why, but FACTS tell us that Singler played in the NBA and QM couldn't! Yes Singler EARNED his time, pick your reason, it won't change the fact that he accomplished what he did!

Man love is a dangerous thing! You aren't even satisfied when we say he should get PT, no, that's not good enough for you, he needs to get 30 minutes a game to satisfy your hunger to watch his jock strap go up and down
Yeah, man love is a dangerous thing in the land of basketball fandom, so watch yourself. - That's not an answer, you're ducking the question big time!

Come on DX, get a reality pill already!

Good morning Oracle, I needed some humor with my morning cup of coffee and roll; you always deliver. Seriously though, I don't care what you say, I want to see Quincy Miller get some playing time, with Jackson, KCP, Drummond, and Monroe this year, in the remaining games left, not next year! Why sign him, pay him, and not play him during a lost cause season? This season is done!!! Personally I'm tired of watching Prince, Butler, Martin, and lately, Williams march out on the floor and be totally boring and ineffective! If for no other reason, the age difference and the fact none of those players should be in a Pistons uniform next year. That's my reality, without the pill.

You said you don't get to see him, but that doesn't stop you from saying this?

I got a news flash for you; Quincy can play and has talent, which SVG knows....Vince Ellis is an egotistical damn fool that's been spoiled by his blessing to have the job he does. Sure he went to college, but his paygrade extends far beyond what he brings to the table. Hell, a number of us could do better, if given a chance.

My feelings on why QM is not playing, with the other young studs of the future, is that if he does well, it'll undermine the insane logic SVG used all season long for not properly addressing the SF dilemma, when he and some fans hoped it would magically straighten itself out. He stuck with Josh there for too long (when Josh should've been used at PF exclusively) and not having nowhere else to turn, after Smith was gone, he went with Singler, who had started at SG only (where he was outmatched) in hopes that he would redeem Van Gundy's lack of properly signing/trading for a SF during the summer. Drunk with power! SVG/Bower signs players off the street and the next game, they're playing unless they play SF! - DX

I explained to you why SVG hasn't played him to date, and I explained to you that those reasons don't apply anymore and that QM is likely to see PT this season at some point, and you still have these theories?

QM can't DEFEND any position on the court, THAT'S the reason he was in the D-League!

I agree that he has talent, I just don't agree that he's a NBA player yet, he has to prove that! Trey Burke has talent, but he's now coming off the bench, and last night came off the bench for 22 minutes and scored ZERO points, but you and Wise swore that he was going to tear up the league, but KCP looks way better, and we dodged a bullet, but you won't credit Joe will you!

As I said, QM will get a shot, and most here want to see him get it, but instead of looking at that as a win, you have to trash Singler and complain that SVG is out to NOT use a player that he signed to a 10 day contract and signed for the rest of the year.

What would be SVG's motivation to diss QM? What are you thinking?

[Oracle]

Q: What do you think the market will be for Khris Middleton this summer? It seems really hard to guess but I don't know if the Bucks will pay him big yet and he could be a good fit for the Pistons up to a certain dollar amount. Thanks again! -- Isaac from Irvine, Calif.

A: You're right, it's hard to guess, but you're asking an unabashed Middleton fan who always thought the throw-in was too much in the Brandon Knight-for-Brandon Jennings trade in 2013 -- and I don't mean Slava Kravtsov. I would have made the Knight-for-Jennings trade too. It was the Middleton part that was a real loss.

Knight, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Jodie Meeks, Middleton and Kyle Singler, Greg Monroe and a stretch-four, and Andre Drummond with a Monroe backup, wouldn't look so bad right now.

Sometimes, when the trade call comes, a general manager should just go golfing instead.

I'm like you -- I'm sure the Bucks like Middleton, but do they like him $7-8 million worth? If they don't, Milwaukee had better find a sign-and-trade partner, because someone else will.

[cool breeze]

I got a news flash for you; Quincy can play and has talent, which SVG knows....Vince Ellis is an egotistical damn fool that's been spoiled by his blessing to have the job he does. Sure he went to college, but his paygrade extends far beyond what he brings to the table. Hell, a number of us could do better, if given a chance.

My feelings on why QM is not playing, with the other young studs of the future, is that if he does well, it'll undermine the insane logic SVG used all season long for not properly addressing the SF dilemma, when he and some fans hoped it would magically straighten itself out. He stuck with Josh there for too long (when Josh should've been used at PF exclusively) and not having nowhere else to turn, after Smith was gone, he went with Singler, who had started at SG only (where he was outmatched) in hopes that he would redeem Van Gundy's lack of properly signing/trading for a SF during the summer. Drunk with power! SVG/Bower signs players off the street and the next game, they're playing unless they play SF!

Sissy, we started the season needing a SF and still don't have one! We started the season with higher hopes of making the playoffs than we have in many a year, but it seems the reality is we'll be winning less than 30 games for 3 years running! We traded two players (Jerebko and Datome) who weren't getting any PT to Boston for a player they wanted to scrap (Prince) and be damned if Boston is playing better than we are, with our castoffs, and we're left with another senior citizen at SF. If I had the power to read minds and speak for others, I'd say Doc Rivers don't want anything to do with Prince and him going to the Clippers is nothing more than a pipe dream.

We're losing. We won't make the playoffs. There's only a handful of games left to the season. What's wrong with taking this opportunity to let our youthful core get baptized in the fires of NBA competition before the Summer League? Am I the only one who want to see Jackson, KCP, Dinwiddie, Miller, and Drummond start to try and gel together, win, lose, or draw? IMHO those are the players, if they are properly developed and kept together, will make a difference for the next 10 years!

dX I respectfully disagree with your statement that Stan Van Gundy never addressed the small forward issue. There was no issue. The team had Kyle Singler who by the way led the team is 3 point shooting percentage despite going through periods where the point guard dominated shoot first mentality resulted in Singler seldom even touching the basketball. Now with the Thunder he has shown more of his passing skills. Singler was the player who was always running from side to side and that meant he was going into the paint putting a body on opposing big men in a attempt to free up players like Monroe. Notice how difficult it is for Monroe to even get a pass now? And I am not trying to say that Singler is an All Star caliber player either. The other 4 players who played with Kyle Singler didn't have have the knowledge of Singler and those other 4 players were all fundamentally unsound players. That is still our problem. We have the starting shooting guard who has defensive lapses and doesn't recognize situations on offense. He turns his back on the point guard at times when he is running up the court on opposing made baskets instead of calling for the basketball when the point guard being doubled. But Pope is so far advanced from our starting big men in knowing basic fundamentals it isn't even close. Our big men are horrible defenders even after playing for a great coach who stresses defense. They are both better than last year so that is encouraging. Can a team afford playing two ineffective big men together when it comes to defending the paint or getting out on a hot power forward who makes 3 shots in a row from the outside? No team can win the way the starting point guard (Jackson is playing). But it is not all Jackson's fault either. Jackson's teammates are standing more than they are moving their feet in the half court offense. I am sure that Van Gundy is going to address the small forward position this summer for sure but I am more worried about the other so called KEY PLAYERS. I believe every current player on this team should be considered trade material. Announcers want to talk about Drummond's stats compared to Shaq etc. Maybe Drummond might become a good player but there is no guarantee because he is still fundamentally unsound. He gets a lot of rebounds but does he make key defensive plays when it counts or at any other time in a game? He could do it but he hasn't done it yet. Monroe is in the same boat. He shows great scoring potential at times but then blows it on defense and is not a quick rebounder so all teams get many second chance opportunities.

There are holes everywhere dX. From what I have seen of Miller in the past, I do not believe anyone can count on him being a solid two way player on a winning basketball team. We need to get somebody like Stanley Johnson in the draft or pay the money for an established NBA small forward who can play both ends well and is smart and stable as a person.

[cool breeze]

I to was curious about why Quincey Miller wasn't getting any playing time especially with the play by Butler & the Princess, I e-mailed Vince Ellis about it saying since they've lost 8 in a row why wouldn't Stan the Man, our coach, GM & the Grand Puba that he is wouldn't at least give Miller some Sniff time, I mean doesn't a good coach do this to kill two birds with one stone, at least since he's already said he's going to keep him & has plans for him in the summer league, the summer league is fine but why not find out something now? There not going anywhere, right?
Well Vince answered me with this little ditty, "Why With all the problems the Pistons are having why would they even do that & said he would leave that question alone". So I'm thinking that's a pretty easy answer on why they wouldn't play him with the other two sucking at the playing time their getting so what would it hurt, find out now first hand, I mean we're not closing in on any playoff aspirations are we? Just thought that he gave me a prickly answer. You always find out a lot of questions by playing in an actual game Vince & Stan. Plus hearing lately that Middleton, Datome & Jerebko are playing & scoring for their respective teams & the common denominator seems to be they've been given a chance to play which Stan seems to shy away from but instead will stay with two Dinosaurs who well you've seen what we've got from them which is  terrible & really what harm would it actually be by finding out if Quincey can play, I mean Jeesh, their looking for their 9 Loss in a row tonight.

Even if you are playing on a high school team and you change personnel towards the end of a season, it is difficult for players to mesh immediately and beat teams who have players that have gone through battles together and built up trust and know tendencies individual players bring to a team. Van Gundy plays the former All Star vets for a good reason. And before the player movement, Kyle Singler was the young starter on the Pistons who might have been the most stable player at the time. I say stable in the sense of what he brought to the team other than scoring that is so important. Most fans look at who the shot makers are and ignore what really makes a good team work well. If you can recall the amazing demonstration of outstanding team work by the Spurs last season and the compare with the way our Piston players perform in the half court offense or how they rotate on defense, you can easily understand why our Pistons have gone on such a losing streak. We do lack team first fundamentally sound two way players like many NBA teams. The Spurs had everyone on the same page making the extra pass, setting screens, moving fast and making the correct cuts when the screen is set, and getting the basketball at the right time and place by the passer. It doesn't have to be the point guard who makes the extra pass either. Stan Van Gundy is no fool. He runs the practices and has watched Miller perform with the Pistons in practice. You get a good sense of who should be on the floor based on that. We are missing Singler, Augustin (who is a far better point guard right now than Jackson) and the most under rated player of all, Jonas Jerebco. Jackson might become an outstanding player at some point but he didn't develop many skills in running a half court offense by playing with the Thunder. That team had so much offensive talent that they only had to run a first option on offense. Our young Pistons are all fundamentally unsound right now including our big men who build up all those amazing stats. When the game is on the line, it is usually the big men who don't make plays on defense. Our vet small forwards are not the players making mistakes on defense in crunch time. It is Pope, Jackson, Monroe and Drummond. Those guys are young and have the ability to get better especially playing for Stan van Gundy.

Sissy this is a time to celebrate. We might get lucky in the draft now and if this team can keep losing we will at least lock up the 6th pick. I believe we will get lucky this season and get a top 3 pick. That is much better than winning meaningless games at this point in the regular season. Now is the time to play Spencer Dinwiddie and for management to pull off several miracles in the off season by bringing in more talented players who are fundamentally sound. Our current young players need to have the desire to become fundamentally sound or they will continue to get their asses beat when the games are on the line.

[deusXango]

I got a news flash for you; Quincy can play and has talent, which SVG knows....Vince Ellis is an egotistical damn fool that's been spoiled by his blessing to have the job he does. Sure he went to college, but his paygrade extends far beyond what he brings to the table. Hell, a number of us could do better, if given a chance.

My feelings on why QM is not playing, with the other young studs of the future, is that if he does well, it'll undermine the insane logic SVG used all season long for not properly addressing the SF dilemma, when he and some fans hoped it would magically straighten itself out. He stuck with Josh there for too long (when Josh should've been used at PF exclusively) and not having nowhere else to turn, after Smith was gone, he went with Singler, who had started at SG only (where he was outmatched) in hopes that he would redeem Van Gundy's lack of properly signing/trading for a SF during the summer. Drunk with power! SVG/Bower signs players off the street and the next game, they're playing unless they play SF!

Sissy, we started the season needing a SF and still don't have one! We started the season with higher hopes of making the playoffs than we have in many a year, but it seems the reality is we'll be winning less than 30 games for 3 years running! We traded two players (Jerebko and Datome) who weren't getting any PT to Boston for a player they wanted to scrap (Prince) and be damned if Boston is playing better than we are, with our castoffs, and we're left with another senior citizen at SF. If I had the power to read minds and speak for others, I'd say Doc Rivers don't want anything to do with Prince and him going to the Clippers is nothing more than a pipe dream.

We're losing. We won't make the playoffs. There's only a handful of games left to the season. What's wrong with taking this opportunity to let our youthful core get baptized in the fires of NBA competition before the Summer League? Am I the only one who want to see Jackson, KCP, Dinwiddie, Miller, and Drummond start to try and gel together, win, lose, or draw? IMHO those are the players, if they are properly developed and kept together, will make a difference for the next 10 years!

[Sissy1946]

I to was curious about why Quincey Miller wasn't getting any playing time especially with the play by Butler & the Princess, I e-mailed Vince Ellis about it saying since they've lost 8 in a row why wouldn't Stan the Man, our coach, GM & the Grand Puba that he is wouldn't at least give Miller some Sniff time, I mean doesn't a good coach do this to kill two birds with one stone, at least since he's already said he's going to keep him & has plans for him in the summer league, the summer league is fine but why not find out something now? There not going anywhere, right?
Well Vince answered me with this little ditty, "Why With all the problems the Pistons are having why would they even do that & said he would leave that question alone". So I'm thinking that's a pretty easy answer on why they wouldn't play him with the other two sucking at the playing time their getting so what would it hurt, find out now first hand, I mean we're not closing in on any playoff aspirations are we? Just thought that he gave me a prickly answer. You always find out a lot of questions by playing in an actual game Vince & Stan. Plus hearing lately that Middleton, Datome & Jerebko are playing & scoring for their respective teams & the common denominator seems to be they've been given a chance to play which Stan seems to shy away from but instead will stay with two Dinosaurs who well you've seen what we've got from them which is terrible & really what harm would it actually be by finding out if Quincey can play, I mean Jeesh, their looking for their 9 Loss in a row tonight.

[deusXango]

Early wearable computer: Qing Dynasty abacus ring. I know it's not an Apple Watch, but hey, it works

That's a beautiful ring and should be worth quite a bit of coin....I'd love to have one because I know how to calculate with an abacus. Thanks.

[deusXango]

Stan Van Gundy is a stubborn ass man. He should be playing Quincy Miller, plain and simple!

To be clear on QM, he's pretty raw and light in the pants, but the talent is there given good coaching and time! He's a low risk guy to have around, so I like adding him to a young team. There's no way I would have wanted him before in a trade for real assets! Now that he's hit rock bottom, he's a good value!

Excuse me Oracle, but what did I miss? Quincy Miller actually got some PT here and showed to be pretty raw, and I missed it?! Damn. Here I am thinking that he'd be a breath of fresh air and would've established himself as being more than a low risk guy to have around, if he was given the clock Singler, Butler, and Prince have had; he wouldn't have stunned the NBA world, but neither did any of the Pistons who've manned the SF position for us.

I got a problem downgrading players without actually seeing them for myself and when in comparison it'd be damn near impossible for them to underperform their predecessors, not to mention on a team that has more "meh" players than decent ones, and the record reflects just that.

I hope you don't fall off!
If I do, I'll take comfort in the fact that the fall is shorter than the mountain top on which some sit.

Maybe you haven't been watching the NBA, or don't have league pass, but if you did, maybe you wouldn't miss so much!
That was my whole point, I don't have League Pass therefore I haven't seen QM play, only heard the negative assessments of his qualifications.

Yes, you missed a LOT, the kid is as RAW as they come, he's light in the ass, AND he's a effing tweener!
I can tell by the posted picture of him standing next to two guards that he's light in the ass, but I couldn't determine all the things you shared with me pertaining to his game.

Just because you don't know, you shouldn't assume that others are in the same boat! QM isn't effective guarding SF's and he's way to light to play against PF's, so the first thing that has to be done is to figure out where he heading as he matures. Will he pick up the speed to deal with SF's, or will he bulk up and be a PF... who knows? I'm sure you don't, that's why you're complaining about something that shouldn't be a issue, but you want to make it into one!
No I don't know if he'll pick up speed (The Moose hasn't) or bulk up (look how long it's taken Prince to add a few pounds and I wouldn't call that bulked up), so you're right.

You make an assumption and run off making claims based on that false assumption! I said NOTHING to downgrade the player, I simply stated what SVG and everybody else knows, and that's why QM was thrown on the last gasp trash heap!
Sometimes I forget that you speak for us all; everybody knows that the D-League is the "last gasp trash heap"....Whiteside, Covington, and our own Lucas III are last gaspers (to name a few), but they all have gotten some PT and that I did see.

BTW, Singler and Prince EARNED what they're getting, QM hasn't earned SQUAT, unless your undying man love is taken into account
I saw Prince earn his stripes, years ago, contributing on a winner, but WTF has Singler earned? To me and I'm speaking for myself, he was gifted more so than earned a shot to get his ass kicked at both SG and SF....talk about ineffective tweeners. I would have been more humbled if you had used Butler as an example of earning what they're getting.

Man love is a dangerous thing! You aren't even satisfied when we say he should get PT, no, that's not good enough for you, he needs to get 30 minutes a game to satisfy your hunger to watch his jock strap go up and down
Yeah, man love is a dangerous thing in the land of basketball fandom, so watch yourself.

Come on DX, get a reality pill already!

Good morning Oracle, I needed some humor with my morning cup of coffee and roll; you always deliver. Seriously though, I don't care what you say, I want to see Quincy Miller get some playing time, with Jackson, KCP, Drummond, and Monroe this year, in the remaining games left, not next year! Why sign him, pay him, and not play him during a lost cause season? This season is done!!! Personally I'm tired of watching Prince, Butler, Martin, and lately, Williams march out on the floor and be totally boring and ineffective! If for no other reason, the age difference and the fact none of those players should be in a Pistons uniform next year. That's my reality, without the pill.

[Oracle]

Early wearable computer: Qing Dynasty abacus ring. I know it's not an Apple Watch, but hey, it works

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