Sanity Check...

[Oracle]

It's INSANE to not match any offer for Monroe!!!

If you don't give him what the market will determine, he walks with us getting nothing... NOTHING!!!!

So even if we trade him AFTER we sign him, we have to sign him... seriously!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, Jennings is, by far, a bigger problem than Josh Smith, but both need to go!

Jennings needs to go simply because it's addition by subtraction, he just bad in too many areas!

Josh needs to go to somewhere where he'll have a higher probability of getting a ring in the next 3 years, when his hops will likely be in decline, and his shooting won't be getting any better, and for those reasons, we need to get rid of him!

[merc]

I have a hard time deciding between Smith & Monroe.
Pro Smith:
Is there anything that Monroe does better than Smith at PF?
His shooting % goes up considerably the close he gets to the rim... a good coach would not put him out near the arc (especially if he was playing PF.
Clearly a better defender at PF over Monroe.... more likely to come up with loose balls and play well in transition.

Pro Monroe:
Better decision making than Smith... less likely to take bad shots.
Younger to go with the youth movement
Much more tradeable after signing his next contract.
His offensive game is still growing (mid range, post moves etc).

Folks got excited seeing Monroe & Drummond clicking vs a top tier team in OKC... did the Pistons win any of the 5 games Smith was out?
By now it would seem that our fan base would be well tuned into the value of defense an not just one way players.

One thing we can all agree on... Smith & Monroe together doesn't work.

[cool breeze]

Westbrook and Singler both had a right to jump up to try to catch the loose ball inside the half court line near the sideline. The ref looked as if he had been sleeping not moving any portion of his body to get a better perspective so he might make the correct call. It seems this ref had predetermined the call he was going to make. Instead of a jump ball situation, the ref makes a call in favor of the home team. This is something few of us have commented on this season - bad calls against Detroit. But it must be true that the NBA refs have no respect for our players. Most of the season we fans have had no respect for many of them. We were so upset with the effort in most games that we didn't concentrate on bad calls. I counted 8 horrible calls that either were not made that were clear fouls in the act of shooting by our guys or bad calls on Detroit players in loose ball situations or in defensive situations. What a shame our Pistons did not win this last game. Our guys out played the Thunder for the entire game until the last two minutes. Notice that Jennings has been coming into the game at the 2 minute mark and Siva goes to the bench. This game was no different. Jennings did make a nice drive under control and kicked the ball back to Jerebco in this time period but he failed to offer any defense as well and allowed an easy layup because he wasn't interested in getting back in transition. 

KCP played as well in this game on both ends as any Piston this season. Can he come back next year and play like that? I have new hope that he can. 

In the end Detroit lost not only because of bad calls but failure to succeed at the foul line. I am speaking of Brandon Jennings here. Will he take it personal and work on his free throw shooting or go the way of Josh Smith who has never been interested in improving his free shots at the line. I cannot forget Josh standing one foot back from the free throw line and jerking up another shot that had no chance of going in. Why is he standing one foot back when he can't make half of his shots? I don't care how fast you can run or how much potential a player might have in him. I hate watching low basketball IQ players who think they know it all and don't bother to work on a damn thing they are weak at.

[cool breeze]

First off just before this play, Payton Siva executed a really great drive in the flow of the offense going to the rim for a bank shot that went in for him. That was a key play when the team needed a score. What I like about Siva is that he appears calm under pressure. Now to the play I really loved watching and it involved Monroe and Drummond on the next possession. Monroe made a nice move to the basket looking for Drummond who was not open. Monroe shot a half hook that missed. Now we all know what a wide body Perkins in and how he pushes people off the block fouling often but seldom getting fouls called against him. So in this instance, after Monroe released his shot, Drummond stepped into rebounding position pushing Perkins off and out of the play as if he was a small child. Drummond goes up and slams the ball through the net. 

How can any of you defend Smith. It is amazing and as if you have not been watching any of the games and especially lately. If you go back to last year and Smith playing for Atlanta you would see how Smith seemed to be an outcast on that team. His teammates refused to pass the ball to him in the 4th quarter. I assumed that Smith was just not a good crunch time player but it finally determined that something was going on within that team. Players didn't trust Josh Smith. He is an impulsive player much like Brandon Jennings. He has all the talent in the world but has no interest in harnassing the things that hold him back. And that is what caused bad team chemistry. Atlanta players and the coaching staff were relieved when he moved on. I talked about locker room issues in Atlanta on this forum last year but many of you were sold on this man. I started to believe you but the truth is in the game film. I don't think he is the right fit for this Piston team. I believe now that Monroe is the right fit even though he was guilty of being a lazy defender much of the time. I think that his relationship with Drummond will change his outlook as both of them get a little older. If you really are honest you have to admit that Josh Smith cost this team at least 15 loses last season. He missed critical free throws and was AWOL in the first quarter of too many games. Then there is the fact that he would jack up shots that he had no chance of making early in the shot clock or any time he had the urge. That is Josh Smith's history like it or not. He had one amazing season when he was younger. That won't happen again. He is older and it is difficult to break bad habits at his age.

[WTF]

Say the Pistons trade Smith (as many prejudice fans want) and give Monroe what he wants to stay, and give Jennings the benefit of the doubt by allowing him to complete his contract (even though it's movable), what's the future hold for the Pistons? Is it bright or is it dimly mediocre?

Will we be starting Singler at SF, where he's best suited to play (thus exposing him for the true liability he is) and KCP at SG (hoping the last game wasn't just an adrenaline rush)? We're still starting two centers, neither of which can make a FT!! May I remind those who are quick to forget, Monroe has historically started every season weak and slow...stripped of the ball by opposing guards whenever they get ready, and a poor rebounder. He'll still be learning that he can't contain the skilled PF's in the league, with his inept defensive play. Will this hefty new contract inspire him to come to camp with a reliable mid-range jump shot to compliment his post moves? Oh well. Jennings! "Pajama Man." After 32 games this clown from the left coast was still pinning for Mo Cheeks...after Collins (Nets) and Gordon (UMass) nothing would come as a surprise to me, but his game seems better fit in the WNBA than the NBA. Just sayin'. At his best he passed for 9 assists in the first quarter and ended the game with 11...a PG who can only muster 2 assists over three quarters is not who I want running my Pistons offense! Josh is being run out of town because of his poor long range shooting (which admittedly, he shouldn't have been FORCED to do), but our PG shot us out of more games than the law allows. What did Cheeks leaving have to do with an already sub-standard shooting percentage and why did he stop passing the ball? This guy can't represent Detroit on the basketball court!!!!! KCP would never see the ball and whoever plays SF won't either.

Why bring back the two worse defenders on the team (Monroe and Jennings)? IMO the sh!t started in the locker room when the $54 million man talked about the lack of defensive effort being put forth by the Moose and Pajama Man, and it was said directly to their faces! That'll throw a cold chill in a room. Two of the starters being called out in front of 3rd tier players and rookies. The fact is, Monroe is nowhere near the player Al Horford is and Jennings can't hold a candle to the PG Smith had just left behind in Atlanta...his attempt at leadership was undermined by Cheeks, in that punk ass move coming from Atlanta, when he called that unnecessary practice (for all the good it did). Only Joe Dumars could/would stand by and allow something like that to fester, and go unaddressed for so long. Hopefully our new GM, whoever that turns out to be, will realize the importance of team balance, and fit...I hope he's not a promoter of selfish, hero ball being played, but team ball.

DX, I'm in a 100% agreement with this comment. For the life of me I don't understand the attacks and blame that Josh get in the media and on this forum really. I don't understand how some can see all the sh!t wrong with the team and then want to connect it being a result of the Josh signing. IMO Monroe has always come off as an underachieving selfish player and Josh flawed in his own game or not was right for calling them out for their effort. Josh has nothing to do with Monroe pull performance and inconsistencies, nor the sh!t poor effort of the back-court. But saying he doesn't have the right to address the locker room effort because he's not hitting 48% on FG.

When Josh finally convince Cheeks to change how he was being used the team played better, and won more than they lost and Moose pouted because he role changed and his minutes decreased. Then Cheeks went right back to what wasn't working for this team and got himself fired. Let not forget who games and impact was changed when Josh was put in the post? I'm sure everyone agreed that we looked a lot better at any point in the season.

Then they want to say look Josh isn't in the line the last 5 games and we somehow look better is bullsh!t. Keep in mind both Bynum and Stuckey been out of the line up as well.

Many been waiting on some magical sh!t to happen with Monroe and reward him with a max deal in hopes that his ass plays to his potential. Josh earned his money and paid his dues in the league rather people like his game or not.

[cool breeze]

Detroit should have had a victory against the Thunder. There were at least 5 bad calls that lead to Oklahoma points in the 2nd half. Whatever some of you might think about what management needs to do, you should base your ideas on truth and truth is what happens on the floor in real games. This team has played more together since Smith and Bynum have been on the bench and out of the rotation. It is obvious that team chemistry is better. 

JENNINGS:Even Jennings adapted to this new energy his last game. He resisted destroying the offense with impulsive shots or trying to be too fancy. He did that only once early in the 4th quarter which again lead to a turnover. Jennings needs to change his mindset to help this team. That means he needs to be less impulsive and become more conservative on offense and trust his teammates by setting them up so they can make plays. And he needs to somehow improve his defense or the Pistons need to move him either to the bench or out of town. I think he has the ability to adjust and might do it because he wants to win but the jury is out. 

MONROE: Monroe has played with more emotion on both ends over the past two games. Something good was happening between Drummond and Monroe on the floor that had not happened earlier on especially when Smith was in the mix. That cannot be ignored regardless of what some of us thought about Monroe earlier on in the season. Would management be making the biggest blunder of the year by moving Monroe? I don't have a crystal ball and regardless of how much some of you hate the way he has played including me, it is not a sure thing that Monroe and Drummond might not become one of the best combinations of all time given enough time. Both are extremely young for big men who are playing a lot of minutes. I just hope the new GM is an very smart individual. 

DRUMMOND: The biggest weakness that I see relating to Andre right now is inexperience. He has developed some good offensive moves and he is a determined rebounder. He just needs to figure out when to help and when to stay home on defense. He seems to make the wrong decision in that area a lot. He has the potential to become a great pick and roll defender and should concentrate on that this summer along with foul shooting. 

SINGLER: Most of you wrote him off last summer with the majority hoping that he would be included in one trade or another. Just throw him in on any potential trade like you were more interested in just getting his ass out of town because he played at Duke. But Singler has been the lone steady hand on the floor and every Piston coach would make that same statement if you asked them. Singler has great potential. He is not a after thought but is a solid starter but should be playing the small forward position. If you watched the last few games, you would have noticed that Kyle has developed a nice pull up 6-8 foot jump shot driving much like Prince used to do. He has always been the best defender on the team and the best help defender and weak side rebounder. And Singler is always moving without the ball setting screens and finding open areas instead of standing and resting like many of the high paid guys. I love Singler and believe he is going to be a fantastic player next season. His shooting percentage is going up and he will be the guy who drains the winning shot in crunch time. Better ball movement and player movement will open up opportunities for him. 

KCP: KCP had a breakout game against the Thunder. He was not the same rookie player who had no confidence in his shooting ability. This last game will stick with him this summer and hopefully drive this man into an extreme work routine making everyday in the off season important to him. 

JEREBCO: I have not given up on Jonas. Playing with the right group has been fantastic for Jonas over the past two weeks. He can play and do a lot of things well. I hope he stays and becomes part of a effective second unit next year. 

SIVA: It is a shame that this guy has been on the bench for most of the season. However, in this short period of time, I see improvement in his confidence and ability to run a team. He works on his weaknesses. He is smart. He can defend and has always been a winner. I hope Siva can come back and become part of something special. 

DRAFT: I hope we can keep our first round pick. I would love to see Arron Gordon in a Piston uniform. He is only 18 years old and plays the game with a higher basketball IQ than I have ever seen for a player twice his age. He drives opponents crazy on defense. We remember Rodman and Gordon is no different in his approach to defense and rebounding. His foul shooting percentage is bad but in practice his technique had no flaws and he shot over 85%. He has good technique with his jump shot as well and is an incredible driver with an amazing fist step. Gordon plays at an amazing tempo and seems never to get tired. He will never be a lazy ass guy because he takes losing personal. I imagine that his stock will go up a lot higher in the combines once they see how athletic this man is. If we don't get Gordon, then I just hope that player has quickness and the ability to defend because that is what is wrong with this team right now.

[deusXango]

Say the Pistons trade Smith (as many prejudice fans want) and give Monroe what he wants to stay, and give Jennings the benefit of the doubt by allowing him to complete his contract (even though it's movable), what's the future hold for the Pistons? Is it bright or is it dimly mediocre?

Will we be starting Singler at SF, where he's best suited to play (thus exposing him for the true liability he is) and KCP at SG (hoping the last game wasn't just an adrenaline rush)? We're still starting two centers, neither of which can make a FT!! May I remind those who are quick to forget, Monroe has historically started every season weak and slow...stripped of the ball by opposing guards whenever they get ready, and a poor rebounder. He'll still be learning that he can't contain the skilled PF's in the league, with his inept defensive play. Will this hefty new contract inspire him to come to camp with a reliable mid-range jump shot to compliment his post moves? Oh well. Jennings! "Pajama Man." After 32 games this clown from the left coast was still pinning for Mo Cheeks...after Collins (Nets) and Gordon (UMass) nothing would come as a surprise to me, but his game seems better fit in the WNBA than the NBA. Just sayin'. At his best he passed for 9 assists in the first quarter and ended the game with 11...a PG who can only muster 2 assists over three quarters is not who I want running my Pistons offense! Josh is being run out of town because of his poor long range shooting (which admittedly, he shouldn't have been FORCED to do), but our PG shot us out of more games than the law allows. What did Cheeks leaving have to do with an already sub-standard shooting percentage and why did he stop passing the ball? This guy can't represent Detroit on the basketball court!!!!! KCP would never see the ball and whoever plays SF won't either.

Why bring back the two worse defenders on the team (Monroe and Jennings)? IMO the sh!t started in the locker room when the $54 million man talked about the lack of defensive effort being put forth by the Moose and Pajama Man, and it was said directly to their faces! That'll throw a cold chill in a room. Two of the starters being called out in front of 3rd tier players and rookies. The fact is, Monroe is nowhere near the player Al Horford is and Jennings can't hold a candle to the PG Smith had just left behind in Atlanta...his attempt at leadership was undermined by Cheeks, in that punk ass move coming from Atlanta, when he called that unnecessary practice (for all the good it did). Only Joe Dumars could/would stand by and allow something like that to fester, and go unaddressed for so long. Hopefully our new GM, whoever that turns out to be, will realize the importance of team balance, and fit...I hope he's not a promoter of selfish, hero ball being played, but team ball.

[cool breeze]

This play with 6 seconds to go in the 3rd was perhaps Detroit's best execution on offense this season. Jennings was playing point guard and was positioning himself at the top of the key faking a potential drive to his left. If you could hold your remote at that point in time you would see that the players were concentrating on getting proper floor spacing. This was a rare occurrence this season on most possessions. From Jennings vantage point he could see that Drummond had moved far out on the left baseline. KCP, who had been a deadly shooting threat was spaced out wide on the left wing. Singler was on the opposite side beyond the 3 point line. And then there was Jerebco who was out on the right wing at the three point line. Thunder defenders were forced to move out in the area of the man they were supposed to be guarding or be in violation of the rules. This was terrific floor spacing where the lane was open and either KCP or Jerebco would have a chance to either shoot the long ball or if Jennings faked a drive, could get a pass and get between two spread out defenders. Sure enough Jennings did the right thing and moved to his left while Jerebco at the same moment took two quick steps to towards the basket. Jennings passed the ball at exactly the right time when Jerebco was still at least 13 feet from the basket. Jonas put the ball on the floor and showed his strength which is the ability to handle the ball well for a big guy and drive to the rim where he shot the ball off the board for a text book perfect play just before the last second of the 3rd quarter. I was impressed. This would not have happened if Josh Smith had been on the floor. One of the big problems this season is that our point guards if it be Jennings or Bynum always played one side of the court. Both ignored the right side where both Singler and Jerebco would be hanging out unguarded most of the time because they seemed to believe that their only option was Smith the low percentage shooter who would be on the left wing or baseline. Every team in the league knew what was going to happen when the Pistons had the ball. The ball was going to Smith's side of the floor where he would shoot it or Jennings would crank up a low percentage shot. Once and awhile Monroe would work for position on the high post but rarely on the low post. 

One of the things I like about Siva is that he was able to drive under control in the paint and kick the ball out to open shooters. All of the players who played with Siva looked like they were having more fun even though the shots were not falling much of the time. In this last game, our Pistons had great chemistry. It was an exciting game to watch because our players gave a great effort together. None of the high paid players played in that game. We had no Stuckey or Smith and even the Thunder crowd respected our players. This unit had an 8 point lead at that point in time.

[WTF]

They're replaying both the 30 for 30 and Grantland pieces tonight beginning at 8pm. I plan to watch it again for certain its must see TV.

Man my eyes teared up as well because I attended both the parade and pep rally in 89 and remember being crushed when Rick was left unprotected. It was just so much I remember sitting there at the dome watching those battles with the Celtics.

A couple of things I felt would have been nice. I see that there was honors in the credit given to Chuck and Dobek and not Davidson not making a fuss about it just think it he should have been included there. The other thing is I love the commentary of MJ and his statement that he would never won 6 NBA titles if it was not for those battles with the Pistons. I felt that both Magic and Bird should have included some comments to this piece.

I was never high on Dantley but seem to lose just a little more respect for him that he holds on to some kind of hate for Zeke though Jack made it clear that no one went to him about trading him for Mark. I respect Dantley game but Mark was a better player and fit. More importantly he was a better team mate than Dantley.

I hope every player on this current team was watching this and see the sacrifices that entire team made to win. Nobody was above the team (Moose and Jennings)

[WTF]

I don't want to be a traitor, Wise, but we do seem to disagree.

Just to clarify (a slip of the fingers on the keyboard, I suspect): I never said that Monroe couldn't fit, but rather Jennings (except as bench guy or supplementary PG).  I think high of Monroe, in spite of the deficiencies in his game and the rough fit.

I think Monroe made a smart and mature comment concerning the locker room: I'm going to answer the question (No), but I'm not going to elaborate when pressed.

I thought Isiah represented himself and the team very well on the whole in the special and the Simmons forum.  But he did raise an excuse, precisely in the incident you cite, by saying he didn't see anyone signal for a timeout (I do see that the bigger point he made was the concession that he panicked).

Not saying Josh is the only problem, at all.  For instance, it's one thing to speak on behalf of your departed coach, as Jennings did, to his credit, it's another to let your game slip as a result, which I think he did.

Sparma, not you too?  Come on we all watched the same games and we see what the issues are with this team.  You just said it Josh could contribute to this team is used properly, but Monroe would never fit.

Now Josh has never came out publicly and did this weak girly stuff Jenning and Monroe just pulled what real man does stuff like this?  When I read that article they sound like 2 girls whining.  

When Josh said the team needed to play harder Monroe said they play hard enough already and that was 2 weeks into the season.  Can anyone of us say this team plays hard?  

Just something stinks about this entire article and the fact that Jennings and Monroe are involved.

[Sebastian]

If Gores was watching or DVRing it, then he should have no doubts about who should be the next GM (Zeke) and Head Coach (Laimbeer) of OUR Pistons!

Make the hires Gores, so that the beginnings of a Pistons culture can start!

[Sparma]

I don't want to be a traitor, Wise, but we do seem to disagree.

Just to clarify (a slip of the fingers on the keyboard, I suspect): I never said that Monroe couldn't fit, but rather Jennings (except as bench guy or supplementary PG). I think high of Monroe, in spite of the deficiencies in his game and the rough fit.

I think Monroe made a smart and mature comment concerning the locker room: I'm going to answer the question (No), but I'm not going to elaborate when pressed.

I thought Isiah represented himself and the team very well on the whole in the special and the Simmons forum. But he did raise an excuse, precisely in the incident you cite, by saying he didn't see anyone signal for a timeout (I do see that the bigger point he made was the concession that he panicked).

Not saying Josh is the only problem, at all. For instance, it's one thing to speak on behalf of your departed coach, as Jennings did, to his credit, it's another to let your game slip as a result, which I think he did.

Sparma, not you too?  Come on we all watched the same games and we see what the issues are with this team.  You just said it Josh could contribute to this team is used properly, but Monroe would never fit.

Now Josh has never came out publicly and did this weak girly stuff Jenning and Monroe just pulled what real man does stuff like this?  When I read that article they sound like 2 girls whining.  

When Josh said the team needed to play harder Monroe said they play hard enough already and that was 2 weeks into the season.  Can anyone of us say this team plays hard?  

[WTF]

I don't want these kind of players on this team.  Man we just watched some of the best players this team ever had and I can't imagine any of them before 89 making excuses and pointing fingers.  One thing I was impressed with is when Zeke said I panic and threw that ball away to Bird.    His team backed him they didn't point a finger

We never got that crap before or after 2004 not even in 2005. Sheed stood up and said I screwed up after costing the team a back to back title.   But I have to read this sh!t from these two whining bitches....because Josh spoke harshly to them in a looker room.   There was a reason why Chauncey stood up for Josh, and theres a reason he said the exact same things as Josh because it was true. Team didn't turn on Sheed they didn't point a finger

When you look at this team what one player has anything close to the Pistons DNA  we all talk about? It's certainly not these 2 whining in the press but definitely the one they're whining about that has it.

Josh plays with the same energy and passion that both Salley and Rodman played with,  Monroe and Jennings couldn't come off the bench if they played in 89 but Josh could.  Next they'll be coming out of the closet.....

Say what you want about Josh he lead his team to the playoffs every year he didn't become a loser until he got here with the losers that were here when he arrived. But here we have these clowns point a finger at him a retard and a lazy loser and dumb ass reporting on it.

The thing that most impress me was that none of these guys initially liked each other, Rick didn't like Zeke or Bill, VJ and Bill didn't like Mark, Salley didn't like Bill, but these guys became a team of brothers. But Jennings and Monroe is pouting like girls in the locker room.

IMO Monroe was on his period when they signed Josh and he wasn't offer the same money when they offered him an extension before the season. Again if the idea was to offer him Max Money eh would be signed already. I seen this bitch sh!t coming him.

[WTF]

Via MLive.com:

Greg Monroe, on the day his fourth NBA season ended and perhaps the occasion of his final Detroit Pistons game, was asked what the team needs to do to reverse its fates in the short term.

"Um. ... I mean. ... Ahm. ... Well, um."

He was saved by an offer to restrict the answer to personnel, and given that out, said more perimeter shooting would be nice.

This the sh!t I'm talking about he won't mention his inability to step out and hit a mid-range but says perimeter shooting was an issue knowing that he and Andre can't both be in the post and that spacing would be better if he can step out consistently and hit a 10-15 footer. He don't mention his defensive issues but then he applies there are secret locker room issues he can't talk about.

Also notice the difference how MLive decided to report on it then the smear job Ellis is attempting to do on Josh.

[WTF]

Sparma, not you too? Come on we all watched the same games and we see what the issues are with this team. You just said it Josh could contribute to this team is used properly, but Monroe would never fit.

Now Josh has never came out publicly and did this weak girly stuff Jenning and Monroe just pulled what real man does stuff like this? When I read that article they sound like 2 girls whining.

When Josh said the team needed to play harder Monroe said they play hard enough already and that was 2 weeks into the season. Can anyone of us say this team plays hard?

[Sparma]

That article does a good job of pulling all the threads together, Oracle. I'd been getting the sense Smith could be at the heart of the locker room problems based on the comments by Monroe and Jennings, and the context provided by Vince Ellis.

On the court, I still think Smith could be a big contributor in the right setting.

On the court, I have a hard time imaging Jennings contributing a lot to winning, unless it's in a more specialized role off the bench.

btw, terrific retrospective on the Bad Boys, followed by a good forum. Mahorn tears up thinking back on being claimed by the new Timberwolves after winning the first championship.

One reaction I had while watching is: it doesn't look that hard to put together a steadily improving team oriented roster by making a series of good decisions (and picking up one superstar in the draft). On the other hand, I marvel at all of the top quality pieces that needed to be there for the team to be so great (Simmons puts the first championship team as the 4th greatest ever) ranging from our greatest GM & coach, a magnificent backcourt, tough and talented hombres in the frontcourt, young studs playing fierce D, a stellar bench, and a supportive owner. Wow! It sucks getting older, but it was a blessing to witness that. We have reason to hope as Pistons' fans, but that era will not be equaled in my lifetime. Twenty five years ago. Ouch.

[WTF]

Come on Oracle you know this sounds like some silly school girl crying and finger pointing. Seriously even if Josh was these perceived chemistry killer that doesn't explain away the obvious facts that 1. Moose is defensively liability, 2. That Moose don't have a mid range 3. That neither 1 or 2 will improve any time soon.

Ellis cracking on KL seriously next Goodwill be cracking on Mayo and Feldman cracking on Goodwill when all these monkeys been kiising Joe ass the past 14 seasons. Moose immediately went into crybaby mode when Joe signed Josh and been pouting every since.

I could respect this if these comments were coming from Stuckey, Singler, Chauncey and sh!t even Charlie, but I be damn if I would listen to Monroe and Jennings. IMO Moose been whining and pouting once the word franchise attached to Andre and his best pal was traded.

This is a straight up bitch move by both players and after watching the Bad Boy special are Moose and Jennings the kind of bitch type players we really want on this team.

[WTF]

And I have to laugh at the 2 guys giving commentary on it. I'll start with Jennings first the very guy that admittedly quit on the team because Cheeks was fired. Then we have the big soft pussy that's been abused by every single PF in the league all season long from scrub to superstar.

Josh came in and perhaps didn't speak nicely and hurt some girly feelings (Monroe and Jennings) in the locker room. This was part of the friction Josh was having with Cheeks. Nothing Josh said was wrong just that you have 2 guys here feeling like Josh can't say sh!t to them. Josh basically was saying the same things Chauncey said about them being selfish and soft.

This is insane sh!t these same two that indirectly pointing this figure are the very one that takes no accountability for the **** they do. Josh might have issues like everyone else but he's the only one that steps up in front of the camera night in and night out and admits it and assume his blame. Jennings excuse is Cheeks being fired and with Monroe it's always what we didn't do, and a lot of time we is not getting their ass whipped by Jefferson, Lamarcus, Bosh, Cousins, or whoever it is he decides to lay down too, or bend over to.

Please hurry up and trade these 2 soft ass pussy.

[Oracle]

This article is loaded(Pistons post-mortem: Players seem to be pointing at Josh Smith as source of on-court failures, locker room drama).

First the writer exposes the Detroit Press for what it is, and calls out Langlois as a Piston employee, which he is and thus limited.

But the bigger problem and focus is Josh Smith, the chemistry destroyer!

Finally, as I noted, but didn't delve into, was the way the chemistry & movement went last night without Smith to gum up the works!

IMO, the evidence is looming large the Josh may need to go, but that doesn't mean Monroe will stay. If another PF could be had in trade, it might mean he goes, but it's more likely that Monroe stays and we beef up the other positions moving Josh!

KCP put on a show, and I'm really glad he got to strut his stuff against a powerful team wanting to win, and us on the road... impressive!

[WTF]

Hey fellas... make sure you catch the ESPN special tonight on the Bad Boys... think it's at 8 est.

Man I'm loving this and even the Grantland piece with Bill Simmons and Jalen Rose is a nice touch. I like that Chauncey talked about the Bad Boys team and how it influence them. But I'm kind of perplexed that Joe didn't harness this culture with the players he selected, the coaches he hired.

[merc]

Hey fellas... make sure you catch the ESPN special tonight on the Bad Boys... think it's at 8 est.

[Oracle]

Don might I suggest you look at the season in its totality and not based on a couple of meaningless games that Monroe decides to put forth an effort.  We have seen this crap for 5 season and Monroe has been more inconsistent than he has consistent.  

Also you seem to overstate your criticism of Josh quite a bit.  Josh is not a nearly the liability you make him out to be and he's certainly not the chemistry killer you claim.  Crappy shooting percentage and all it all came in the flow of the offense and as far as I'm concern a dumb decision on defense is better than no decision on defense which is what we tend to get more often than not with Monroe.  

I would roll with Josh at PF over Monroe all day long   

I agree with Don's earlier comment that it's hard to judge "Off the ball" players when the guard play was so bad most of the season.

Therefore it's hard to judge some aspects of both Josh & Monroe's game, but attitude & motivation can give you some insight.

Both players have meltdowns, however Monroe has more of them, but there may be reasons related to how he's being used.

IMO, preference should be given to youth, but it's clear that right now, Josh is the superior PF, but that may not last long enough to do us any good. Josh needs to get on a team that's a lot closer to making a run than we are!

However, I wouldn't hesitate to have Josh at PF if we could move Monroe for some great pieces, preferably young pieces.

If we were able to get Afflalo & Deng without moving Monroe, then I would favor moving Josh.

IMO, moving Josh is in his best interest and ours going forward, but it may be hard to do!

[Oracle]

Coach:  I'm not sure of whom, but I definitely want the Pistons to make a long term commitment with the new coach giving them at least a minimum of 5 years and 5 million a season.  They need to make it hard to want to fire the next coach. - I totally agree! We need to cut the crap and give a qualified coach the time needed to build a championship team.

General Manager:  Again not sure who but the same needs to be done in terms of making a commitment to the new GM. I only ask that the organization make the hire based on the GM vision.  Meaning the new GM is not coming in guessing but with a plan and vision for the team from day one. - Ditto

Draft Pick: Right now I'm very high on another Michigan player and that is Stauskas. There is no doubting or guessing about what the kid is capable of a player.  This kid has ice in his veins when it comes to shooting,  has no fear, he defend well and plays smart and a lot quicker than he looks because he's scores almost in every fashion possible. - Unless there is just somebody we can't pass on, that's my pick as well! Stauskas is highly underrated, he's a lot more athletic than people realize! I'm really high on him, but he is a stretch at #8. So a lot depends on who's left on the board when we pick!

FA & Trades:  I'm not sure how but I think we could add both Affalo and Deng over the summer with some creative thinking and possibly land Rondo with a creative sign and trade involving Monroe.  IMO if I knew my starters for next season would be Rondo, Affalo, Deng, Smith, and Drummond I would be very happy. - That would certainly shore up the starting SG & SF positions. Josh has made me a bit gun shy from the perspective of which Josh will we get, but with these two on board and hopefully much better guar play, we could be solid.

Other Sh!t:  I wouldn't be oppose to one single hire in which the that hire has both role of Coach and GM giving them complete control of the roster.  This way the coach can't blame the GM and the GM can't blame the coach for who's on the court and who plays.  People I would strongly consider for such a dual role would be Jerry Sloan, Avery Johnson, Bill Laimbeer maybe Zeke. - I don't want dual roles!

[WTF]

Don might I suggest you look at the season in its totality and not based on a couple of meaningless games that Monroe decides to put forth an effort. We have seen this crap for 5 season and Monroe has been more inconsistent than he has consistent.

Also you seem to overstate your criticism of Josh quite a bit. Josh is not a nearly the liability you make him out to be and he's certainly not the chemistry killer you claim. Crappy shooting percentage and all it all came in the flow of the offense and as far as I'm concern a dumb decision on defense is better than no decision on defense which is what we tend to get more often than not with Monroe.

I would roll with Josh at PF over Monroe all day long   

[WTF]

Coach: I'm not sure of whom, but I definitely want the Pistons to make a long term commitment with the new coach giving them at least a minimum of 5 years and 5 million a season. They need to make it hard to want to fire the next coach.

General Manager: Again not sure who but the same needs to be done in terms of making a commitment to the new GM. I only ask that the organization make the hire based on the GM vision. Meaning the new GM is not coming in guessing but with a plan and vision for the team from day one.

Draft Pick: Right now I'm very high on another Michigan player and that is Stauskas. There is no doubting or guessing about what the kid is capable of a player. This kid has ice in his veins when it comes to shooting, has no fear, he defend well and plays smart and a lot quicker than he looks because he's scores almost in every fashion possible.

FA & Trades: I'm not sure how but I think we could add both Affalo and Deng over the summer with some creative thinking and possibly land Rondo with a creative sign and trade involving Monroe. IMO if I knew my starters for next season would be Rondo, Affalo, Deng, Smith, and Drummond I would be very happy.

Other Sh!t: I wouldn't be oppose to one single hire in which the that hire has both role of Coach and GM giving them complete control of the roster. This way the coach can't blame the GM and the GM can't blame the coach for who's on the court and who plays. People I would strongly consider for such a dual role would be Jerry Sloan, Avery Johnson, Bill Laimbeer maybe Zeke.

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