Dre Drumm

[BallinD]

Murph,
I think with Dre, it's all about focus and role.  He has proven (so far) that he is not a do-it-all center, but rather is a specialist with room for upside if he focuses on not-scoring, but winning.

Clint Capela gets more recognition than Dre because Houston wins within a SYSTEM that is very firm about his role: Defend, rim run, set picks, rebound.  If Dre can do the same and focus more on winning than scoring/3pts, he can probably be a true all star, not a substitute, especially if his blocks tick up and his steals continue to rise.  Now with Blake on the low block, there is no need for Dre to attempt ghastly post-ups.

SVG was too weak or his dual role doomed him to not be able to properly focus Dre, sheeeeesh.  He gave Dre's post-up qame a full year to sink the team by trying to be what he is not.  It was fairly widely reported that his post-ups were even less efficient than his pre-2017-18 FT percentages of around 39% if memory serves me right.  SVG publicly stated he did not coach shot selection.  His failure to coach that probably set Dre and SJ back a year or two of offensive development.    

Here comes Casey.  I suspect he will not tolerate Weggie's ball-dominant BS (with Blake as point forward) and he certainly won't tolerate Dre's post-up game.  He managed JV in Toronto by cutting his minutes and going small-ball.  Look for something like that here, rather than Dre hoisting a bunch of threes.  I suspect it will be Blake's team and he has theBBIQ, gravitas and possibly Chemistry with Dre, that will allow him to lead by example and steer Dre toward his true potential...more Ben Wallace than Bob Lanier, or even Laimbeer.

Dre has to get it through his thick skull that Capela is his upside, not Cousins, as far as style of play.  I think Zaza can help him figure it out.  

Cool Breeze and BallinD...those are two excellent posts on Drummond.  From the information you provided, I have several observations about Andre's game.

1.  He needs to stop focusing on 3 point shots.
2.  He needs to stop shooting from more than 3 feet out.
3.  He needs to focus on rebounding and shot blocking.
4.  He needs to stop passing out of the high post, so he turns the ball over less.
5.  He needs to let Griffin operate in the high post, while he patrols the low post on offense.
6.  Since he gets confused on defense, he needs to stop switching off of his man as much.
7.  He should not double team the ball handler; it only complicates his defensive assignment.  Hopefully, now that SVG is gone, that won't happen anymore.
8.  He needs to keep it simple, and work on improving what he does best. Yes to all


Don...I think you’re going to be happy with Zaza’s defense.  The reason the Warriors stopped playing him was not because of his defense, it was because he had gained a reputation for being a dirty player.  But the Pistons could use a dirty player like Zara.  If anything the Pistons are too soft.  

YES YES Y'ALL

[Murph]

Cool Breeze and BallinD...those are two excellent posts on Drummond.  From the information you provided, I have several observations about Andre's game.

1.  He needs to stop focusing on 3 point shots.
2.  He needs to stop shooting from more than 3 feet out.
3.  He needs to focus on rebounding and shot blocking.
4.  He needs to stop passing out of the high post, so he turns the ball over less.
5.  He needs to let Griffin operate in the high post, while he patrols the low post on offense.
6.  Since he gets confused on defense, he needs to stop switching off of his man as much.
7.  He should not double team the ball handler; it only complicates his defensive assignment.  Hopefully, now that SVG is gone, that won't happen anymore.
8.  He needs to keep it simple, and work on improving what he does best.


Don...I think you’re going to be happy with Zaza’s defense. The reason the Warriors stopped playing him was not because of his defense, it was because he had gained a reputation for being a dirty player. But the Pistons could use a dirty player like Zara. If anything the Pistons are too soft.

[cool breeze]

Another week or so and there may be some real piston news as the players start to have their pre-training camp activities.  I still expect a pre-season trade...Weggie or Ish,or???
1. We have to hope Casey can get Dre to play a more heady game, (or he will sit to make room for small-ball).  And Cool, Dre has stated his season goal is to lead the league in Rebounds and Blocked Shots.  He said that...
2. Lotta hate from SI 46 (Dre) and  41 (Blake)by ranking freaking Paul Milsap four ranks ahead of Blake, very questionable and Milsap is three years older.  Piston-hate, but works for us to get Blake properly motivated.  When I saw the writeup on Dre, though I cringed at what I had not really focused on before "He shot an abysmal 31.4% from 3-10 feet and 26.8% from the mid-range last year.  Frankly, the Pistons offense would be better off if he was never allowed to shoot from outside three feet."  Wow, talk about a wake-up call to make me choke on my Kool-Aid!
3. I am not nor have been an SVG fan, but for all the talk he mismanaged SJ, I remember SJ first offseason SJ tried to get him to use his left hand...SJ never got it, that could have been a huge assist to his moribund offense, but hey?!
4. I agree, we blew it on Tolliver...Gallowqay or Leuer shoulda beeeeeeeeen gone.  Major mistake IMO.
5. About that "Big Three" Weggie ranked at #97 seemed about right.  

I loved the example shown where AD randomly decided to double on top of the key instead of defending his man. How many times have we witnessed that from both Monroe and Drummond? Yep you don't get paid to play defense in the NBA as many current players believe. But you don't win if you fail to execute the team's defensive game plan. Casey has at least one player in Stanley Johnson who will listen to his coach and try to make the coach's strategy work. That article did a great job showing Johnson's past value on defense at least when his teammates made bone head decisions. That is what Anthony Tolliver brought to the table last season as well. As the writer pointed out Tolliver and Johnson were the two best defenders last season. I believe the 3rd best defender was Moreland. Now we have an old slow back up center who is more talented offensively but this team desperately needs better defensive players who can defend centers and power forwards.

The Casey article which explains what his Toronto players did to limit high percentage 3 point shooting shows the "Detroit Bad Boys" know what they are talking about. Notice in that article what is required of the center and guard in pick and roll defense if the other three teammates stay home on their assigned players. You have to be "dialed in" as a center on defense for Casey's defensive style to work. So far I have not seen where AD has ever been dialed in with any of the numerous coaches he has had since arriving in Detroit. AD seems to be in the group of NBA players who say "you don't get paid to play defense". For those players that trumps anything their coaches might draw up for strategy to actually become a winning caliber team.

I saw where three players were "dialed in" last season on defense with Tolliver, Johnson and Moreland. Now we are down to one player thanks to decisions made in the front office. Who will step up for the team this year to show that they are serious about winning? AD is now 25 years of age. He said he is dialed in to show off his 3 point shooting skills. Nothing has come out of his mouth that I have heard that he will show more love for his team where it is most needed - on defense. Drummond has to step it up or this team is going nowhere. The decision was made to not sign Tolliver or Moreland. The pressure is now on the Piston front office because in my opinion, they made a huge blunder to bank everything on the skill set of a healthy Jon Leuer.

Ballin thanks for providing something positive about Andre Drummond relating to his desire to become a monster shot blocker. I missed that announcement from our center. If AD can control the defensive boards, stop switching off of his assigned big man on pick and roll plays at the free throw line and above, and block shots of drivers who get by the perimeter players, the starters at least should be more competitive. AD also has to stay out of foul trouble and play his best defense in the 4th quarter.

There has been a surprising about of hype relating to what a healthy Jon Leuer will offer. I wonder what has changed since his dismal performances in the last half of the depressing 2016-2017 campaign and I am not referring to Leuer's lack of ability to hit 3 point shots where he went stone cold. What bothered me most was Jon's inability to guard either centers or power forwards that year when he was healthy and younger. Being away from the game for so long why should anyone expect much from him? Leuer has one thing going for him. He is a fundamentally sound basketball player who learned how to play the right way by staying in a great program in college. He was just not strong enough to defend NBA caliber centers or power forwards in the paint but if the current players he is completing with for playing time cannot focus at all on defense, then the coach will have to take what he can get from our $10 million dollar man.

Casey needs to keep his fingers crossed that Henry Ellenson can establish himself as a rotation player who can hold his own in the paint on defense playing back up center. I hate the idea that this might be a make or break season for Henry knowing how young and inexperienced he was when he entered the draft along with his limited experience in either the G League or the NBA under his previous head coach. Casey has some really good assistant coaches and Ellenson is a guy who listens to his coaches and works hard. I doubt that Casey will just throw Henry out on the floor without defining what is expected of him. Did SVG ever do that? This is a great opportunity for Ellenson. All he has to do to win playing time is to show his coaches that he does have the physical conditioning and strength in place to hold his own on defense against much older players. The goal should be to let Ellenson make his mistakes early on and not give up on him so by mid season, Henry can get in a groove and adjust to the speed of the NBA game.

Ballin I agree that the rating of 97 is fair relating to how Reggie Jackson has performed for the past two seasons. I am more concerned with Reggie's cardio ability compared to other starting caliber NBA point guards than I am with his knee issue. Maybe Smith might draw some interest trade wise but I just can't see why any NBA team would take on RJ's contract knowing he is a ball dominate offensive player and a liability on defense. Notice that article on Casey where he most likely will try to implement the same defense he used in Toronto. There was a reference to Jackson's wing span. Jackson, with those long arms should be a really good defensive player and a guy who could cause problems in close outs for 3 point shooters. But RJ didn't seem to have enough gas to get out on shooters last season. He was huffing a puffing a lot thought half court defensive stands when opposing teams used the shot clock well. They were picking on RJ as one of the weak links of SVG's defense. But to be fair there were plenty of holes in SVG's defense mostly because players showed poor recognition skills. Reggie seems to be smart enough but either doesn't have the interest or the cardio ability to play effective defense. Go Pistons!

I just hope Casey doesn't accept lazy half assed effort this season and sets high standards for players to do what is expected of them on defense as well as moving the body on offense instead of standing like statues while one player dribbles around on the perimeter. Casey and his staff will set specific standards for each player telling them what is expected relating to their roles on both offense and defense. This time around, blaming the coach will not be acceptable for most Piston fans. Yet I expect some will do it if things go bad at mid season again. This team has established a history of slacking or folding after mid season. The overall effort by some players changed after Christmas in a bad way. I just hope the team gets better instead of worse come April. There can be no excitement when a team fumbles it's way into the 8th playoff spot knowing how weak the Eastern conference will be this season.

[BallinD]

Another week or so and there may be some real piston news as the players start to have their pre-training camp activities. I still expect a pre-season trade...Weggie or Ish,or???
1. We have to hope Casey can get Dre to play a more heady game, (or he will sit to make room for small-ball). And Cool, Dre has stated his season goal is to lead the league in Rebounds and Blocked Shots. He said that...
2. Lotta hate from SI 46 (Dre) and 41 (Blake)by ranking freaking Paul Milsap four ranks ahead of Blake, very questionable and Milsap is three years older. Piston-hate, but works for us to get Blake properly motivated. When I saw the writeup on Dre, though I cringed at what I had not really focused on before "He shot an abysmal 31.4% from 3-10 feet and 26.8% from the mid-range last year. Frankly, the Pistons offense would be better off if he was never allowed to shoot from outside three feet." Wow, talk about a wake-up call to make me choke on my Kool-Aid!
3. I am not nor have been an SVG fan, but for all the talk he mismanaged SJ, I remember SJ first offseason SJ tried to get him to use his left hand...SJ never got it, that could have been a huge assist to his moribund offense, but hey?!
4. I agree, we blew it on Tolliver...Gallowqay or Leuer shoulda beeeeeeeeen gone. Major mistake IMO.
5. About that "Big Three" Weggie ranked at #97 seemed about right.

I loved the example shown where AD randomly decided to double on top of the key instead of defending his man. How many times have we witnessed that from both Monroe and Drummond? Yep you don't get paid to play defense in the NBA as many current players believe. But you don't win if you fail to execute the team's defensive game plan. Casey has at least one player in Stanley Johnson who will listen to his coach and try to make the coach's strategy work. That article did a great job showing Johnson's past value on defense at least when his teammates made bone head decisions. That is what Anthony Tolliver brought to the table last season as well. As the writer pointed out Tolliver and Johnson were the two best defenders last season. I believe the 3rd best defender was Moreland. Now we have an old slow back up center who is more talented offensively but this team desperately needs better defensive players who can defend centers and power forwards.

The Casey article which explains what his Toronto players did to limit high percentage 3 point shooting shows the "Detroit Bad Boys" know what they are talking about. Notice in that article what is required of the center and guard in pick and roll defense if the other three teammates stay home on their assigned players. You have to be "dialed in" as a center on defense for Casey's defensive style to work. So far I have not seen where AD has ever been dialed in with any of the numerous coaches he has had since arriving in Detroit. AD seems to be in the group of NBA players who say "you don't get paid to play defense". For those players that trumps anything their coaches might draw up for strategy to actually become a winning caliber team.

I saw where three players were "dialed in" last season on defense with Tolliver, Johnson and Moreland. Now we are down to one player thanks to decisions made in the front office. Who will step up for the team this year to show that they are serious about winning? AD is now 25 years of age. He said he is dialed in to show off his 3 point shooting skills. Nothing has come out of his mouth that I have heard that he will show more love for his team where it is most needed - on defense. Drummond has to step it up or this team is going nowhere. The decision was made to not sign Tolliver or Moreland. The pressure is now on the Piston front office because in my opinion, they made a huge blunder to bank everything on the skill set of a healthy Jon Leuer.

[cool breeze]

I loved the example shown where AD randomly decided to double on top of the key instead of defending his man. How many times have we witnessed that from both Monroe and Drummond? Yep you don't get paid to play defense in the NBA as many current players believe. But you don't win if you fail to execute the team's defensive game plan. Casey has at least one player in Stanley Johnson who will listen to his coach and try to make the coach's strategy work. That article did a great job showing Johnson's past value on defense at least when his teammates made bone head decisions. That is what Anthony Tolliver brought to the table last season as well. As the writer pointed out Tolliver and Johnson were the two best defenders last season. I believe the 3rd best defender was Moreland. Now we have an old slow back up center who is more talented offensively but this team desperately needs better defensive players who can defend centers and power forwards.

The Casey article which explains what his Toronto players did to limit high percentage 3 point shooting shows the "Detroit Bad Boys" know what they are talking about. Notice in that article what is required of the center and guard in pick and roll defense if the other three teammates stay home on their assigned players. You have to be "dialed in" as a center on defense for Casey's defensive style to work. So far I have not seen where AD has ever been dialed in with any of the numerous coaches he has had since arriving in Detroit. AD seems to be in the group of NBA players who say "you don't get paid to play defense". For those players that trumps anything their coaches might draw up for strategy to actually become a winning caliber team.

I saw where three players were "dialed in" last season on defense with Tolliver, Johnson and Moreland. Now we are down to one player thanks to decisions made in the front office. Who will step up for the team this year to show that they are serious about winning? AD is now 25 years of age. He said he is dialed in to show off his 3 point shooting skills. Nothing has come out of his mouth that I have heard that he will show more love for his team where it is most needed - on defense. Drummond has to step it up or this team is going nowhere. The decision was made to not sign Tolliver or Moreland. The pressure is now on the Piston front office because in my opinion, they made a huge blunder to bank everything on the skill set of a healthy Jon Leuer.

[WTF]

Possible, but not probable. I'm thinking high 40's, 45-48 wins.

Speaking of what's possible....

Is it possible that Wise can defend Stafford for one second??? I felt lucky that a football Sunday went by without a Lion loss, but then Monday rolled around and those clowns, after a fantastic pick 6 for a 7-0 lead, loses 48-17, I quit watching when Stafford got to 4 picks... that's right, 4 effing picks for this highly paid VETERAN!

I know stuff happens, but it rarely happens at home like this... man, I'm really depressed!

Wise is speechless I have no words for what happened other than to say it was a mistake to fire Caldwell.

[Oracle]

Possible, but not probable. I'm thinking high 40's, 45-48 wins.

Speaking of what's possible....

Is it possible that Wise can defend Stafford for one second??? I felt lucky that a football Sunday went by without a Lion loss, but then Monday rolled around and those clowns, after a fantastic pick 6 for a 7-0 lead, loses 48-17, I quit watching when Stafford got to 4 picks... that's right, 4 effing picks for this highly paid VETERAN!

I know stuff happens, but it rarely happens at home like this... man, I'm really depressed!

[Sparma]

I'm trying to think of what the equivalent of the Pistons winning 55 games this season would be in my own life this coming year.

Something good. I've got to join the Optimists Club!

If this team can win 55 games, and a playoff series, Casey should get another COY and Blake should be in conversation for MVP.

If Bullock can get half of the shots Weggie normally takes and average 20 ppg, he should be in conversation for MIP.

If Dre can meet his goals for the year (tops at rebounds and tops at blocked shots) we should reach those 55 games.

If Weggie can embrace team play and attempt to play defense and share offensive load with Blake, I may say something good about his sorry, petulent azz.

If the world we live in is truly at around 55 wins, we may be at an unofficial Defcon4 or worse, as it appears.

Sports can complement real life issues, but never replace them, nor should they.  If all of us (me included) paid as much attention to world issues as we do to hoops, football, other sports we might be at the world level of Golden State/ Patriots instead of scuffling along like the Pistons/Lions.

If the Stones win 55 games, will Cool Breeze stop yapping about Trump and about Dre not blocking out Whiteside two years ago?      

I'm about as optimistic about this world as I am with this team.  Just like my expectation of the team winning 55 games this season my expectation for the world is that it's far more better, more caring and compassionate.  I don't see 55 wins nor do I see this world getting any better anytime soon if at all without some major event happening.

While we're thinking we are seeing some major progress there is still resistance to a lot of social and economic progress which in my mind is still minimum and there's a storm brewing but everyone keeps down playing it.  It will get much worse before it becomes better.  Just like I use the eye test in assessing basketball while relying little on analytics I also view the world in a similar manner.    So from that I think the world should be 82-0 and right now it's not even at .500.

Yeah maybe we're all bored and that's part of it, this team sucks so it can't distract us much from life woes.  I still feel though that this forum is reaching it's end.

[BallinD]

If this team can win 55 games, and a playoff series, Casey should get another COY and Blake should be in conversation for MVP.

If Bullock can get half of the shots Weggie normally takes and average 20 ppg, he should be in conversation for MIP.

If Dre can meet his goals for the year (tops at rebounds and tops at blocked shots) we should reach those 55 games.

If Weggie can embrace team play and attempt to play defense and share offensive load with Blake, I may say something good about his sorry, petulent azz.

If the world we live in is truly at around 55 wins, we may be at an unofficial Defcon4 or worse, as it appears.

Sports can complement real life issues, but never replace them, nor should they.  If all of us (me included) paid as much attention to world issues as we do to hoops, football, other sports we might be at the world level of Golden State/ Patriots instead of scuffling along like the Pistons/Lions.

If the Stones win 55 games, will Cool Breeze stop yapping about Trump and about Dre not blocking out Whiteside two years ago?      

I'm about as optimistic about this world as I am with this team.  Just like my expectation of the team winning 55 games this season my expectation for the world is that it's far more better, more caring and compassionate.  I don't see 55 wins nor do I see this world getting any better anytime soon if at all without some major event happening.

While we're thinking we are seeing some major progress there is still resistance to a lot of social and economic progress which in my mind is still minimum and there's a storm brewing but everyone keeps down playing it.  It will get much worse before it becomes better.  Just like I use the eye test in assessing basketball while relying little on analytics I also view the world in a similar manner.    So from that I think the world should be 82-0 and right now it's not even at .500.

Yeah maybe we're all bored and that's part of it, this team sucks so it can't distract us much from life woes.  I still feel though that this forum is reaching it's end.

[WTF]

Where did you dream up this personal attack? "This is real life Don, you can't make people love you?" Oh pretty please won't you love me Oracle??

Wow! Where in that did you somehow come up with the idea that this was about YOU???

I'm referring to the United States forcing people to love it... either you do or you don't. Sort of like a God that needs people to fear him and worship him, the level of insecurity there is astounding!

Are you freaking Trump? Everything isn't about you... get a clue!

He likes to make it about himself  really there's something wrong with him.  I think he know better but just can't help himself I don't think he'll ever look in a mirror and think or say maybe it's me.

[Oracle]

Where did you dream up this personal attack? "This is real life Don, you can't make people love you?" Oh pretty please won't you love me Oracle??

Wow! Where in that did you somehow come up with the idea that this was about YOU???

I'm referring to the United States forcing people to love it... either you do or you don't. Sort of like a God that needs people to fear him and worship him, the level of insecurity there is astounding!

Are you freaking Trump? Everything isn't about you... get a clue!

[WTF]

I wish more people would not blindly hate Donald Trump but I have no power to stop that emotional feeling many people have who belong to the progressive democratic party along with some members of Congress who are republicans.

No one blindly hates Donald Trump there are clear decisive and rational reasoning behind the dislike most have for him.  You really need to stop generalize folks in comments.  You don't speak for the masses, you don't have all the calculations and equations to what the majority is thinking.   This is the same ole same ole you do when discussing basketball,  you can't validate what you say with facts, always quoting some 2nd or 3rd hand source like it's the truth and written with some magic stone.  

You are overboard and over the top with some long winded post that are mainly off point of the issue being discussed.   Man the **** why don't you and just validate what you say with facts.  Stop trying to validate with BS and Hearsay.

There's a reason or cause for everything people don't just abruptly wake up hating people.  And Oracle right that if no one agrees with you then everyone else is wrong.  It is something sick about that that might require some therapy.

IJS but your non basketball post are about as dumb as a lot of your basketball post.

[cool breeze]

No games, no real Piston news... we're bored and drifting off to other issues.

Wise & Sparma: Don't let this get you down, as soon as we get some action, Merc, Lemonpen and others will come back. Trump has set off a sh!t storm in this country, but there is some good that has come out because of him.

Some of his policies, which aren't his, but republican, using him as a simpleton signer, are ones I thought Obama should have done. Unfortunately, they're portraying them as big policy, when they're only short term sugar highs designed to get them reelected. Once the sugar wears off things will be a lot worse because the real changes needed haven't been enacted.

However, the big thing Trump has helped us with is exposing how fragile this democracy really is. There are a lot of fixes needed to limit what a president can do, and a lot of things people thought were required, that turned out to be simple norms. But we won't change them until we play the same game on the GOP. They aren't going to win the presidency for a long time, mark my words.

You learn best by your mistakes...


Don, you're clueless, as I said, you're totally incapable of seeing yourself, the result of many years of brain washing not doubt.

You don't just disagree, if people don't believe as you do, your favorite attack is that they don't love America. The fact that you can say that means two things. You want people to parrot your line and be politically correct, and you don't really believe in America, or those vile words would never come out of your mouth.

BTW, I'm sure there are those that hate America, but what's wrong with that? The service men you claim to worship fought for them to have that right, or so they tell me. Any government that has to force people to love it is already in trouble, which is why brain washing kids with the pledge and forcing people to behave in any way during it is sick.

This is real life Don, you can't make people love you!

Where did you dream up this personal attack? "This is real life Don, you can't make people love you?" Oh pretty please won't you love me Oracle?? I can't stand it that really hurt me. You sound like you are about 12 years old Oracle. And you keep throwing out this "politically correct" stigma my way. You have no idea what that term means. I speak as an individual and do not expect anyone to agree with me or do I care. I only state my opinions which I try to base on fact as much as possible. You attack based on generalizations and appear very upset if someone says something that doesn't fit with your perception of things. I am not a member of your hated party the republicans. I do not want your love. My wife and kids love me and my new puppy seems to be having a lot of fun with my family. I believe that you might be the one who is in need of more love. I hope you get it if you are not getting enough.

I wish more people would not blindly hate Donald Trump but I have no power to stop that emotional feeling many people have who belong to the progressive democratic party along with some members of Congress who are republicans. How about just giving him a chance and taking a look at what he wants to accomplish for Americans. He has accomplished a lot as the driver of this new economic growth by pushing through the new tax law and eliminating thousands of regulations that held back growth. If you don't like Trump then vote against him in the next election. That is fair but I encourage people to stop watching main stream media and try to find the real facts. A lot of people were very happy with President Obama just because he was Black and presidential. I never hated him from the get go and hoped he would be a good President. I believe most people thought that way.

watch the documentary "Objectified" where Trumps life goes under the microscope. It turns out that his classmates in school thought highly of him saying he was kind, funny and a good friend. Many who really know him say that. I don't really know him but at least tried to find out the real story maybe because I am an "independent" voter attached to no political party. Years ago Trump appeared on the Opera show and provided his thoughts as to how to make America great again. Before that show ended, Opera said Mr. Trump why don't you run for President? Maybe you should consider thinking outside your political box and maybe read Peter Schweizer's latest book "Secret Empires". The corrupt "deep state" involves members of both political parties. Schweizer has written several other books that eventually stimulated investigations relating to ethics abuses in Washington. The current scandal involves Joe Biden who as Vice President took a trip to two countries to make deals but before his plane left the ground on those countries Biden's son's companies received wire transfers that involved a lot of money. That type of thing is not illegal and members of Congress do not feel bad about helping their friends and kids at the expense of American tax payers who will in some way have to pay for those deals that sure look like bribes. Years ago it was OK to make deals and the deal maker's wife would receive the cash. Now that is considered unethical but money from foreign countries that go into bank accounts of sons and daughters is OK. Surprise it has been Trump who exposed how members of NATO have not paid their fair share of expenses since NATO was created. Who allowed that to happen in the past. Who got the suitcases of cash or diamonds or just wire transfers. Power always corrupts unless rules are in place for members of Congress and those who hold cabinet positions.. So just as the NATO scandal needs to be cleaned up, our polices relating to making trade deals are being changed so American tax payers will get screwed less. The propaganda experts who control media say getting a good deal for Americans rather than China and other countries like Germany is dangerous "nationalism". Did you know we tax payers still are paying both China and India substitutes based on our old policy give away that they are both "developing nations". What I am mentioning should be interesting to everyone who is not involved in the deep state. It shouldn't matter what party you are in should it? Or do you just like being screwed. Basic awareness is better than having blinders on. If you want to hate something do some work to identify what you should really be hating instead of believing the nonsense provided by main stream media. The followers of Bernie Sanders should be very upset with main stream media because you got screwed and would know it if you read the hacked e-mails who coordinated the conspiracy to get Hillary the nomination. How could you believe anything those news anchors say now? As many have said the deep state wanted you to choose from Clinton and Bush not Sanders or Trump. They are pissed off because they didn't get either candidate elected after all that hard work to rig the election. They are pissed and can't get over it so now everyone is supposed to get on board with "resist Trump" or "Trump is a racist". So am I really politically correct because I wish for people to think on their own in an objective manner instead of an emotional gut feeling based on what you hear from the media?

I watch the Pistons and try to pin point segments in games showing why our team lost. If I say that I noticed that AD didn't box out on the defensive boards or Jackson failed to give an honest effort on defense, you scold me and bring up AD's stats. I respond by saying did you actually watch the game I was referring to? You don't respond to that. I think there is somebody out there who will love you Oracle and then maybe you won't find the need to attack posters personally with argument of intimidation like a small child.

[Murph]

Wise...this country is capable of 55 wins. But more than likely we’ll get 45 wins and the 8th seed in the playoffs.

[WTF]

I'm about as optimistic about this world as I am with this team.  Just like my expectation of the team winning 55 games this season my expectation for the world is that it's far more better, more caring and compassionate.  I don't see 55 wins nor do I see this world getting any better anytime soon if at all without some major event happening.

While we're thinking we are seeing some major progress there is still resistance to a lot of social and economic progress which in my mind is still minimum and there's a storm brewing but everyone keeps down playing it.  It will get much worse before it becomes better.  Just like I use the eye test in assessing basketball while relying little on analytics I also view the world in a similar manner.    So from that I think the world should be 82-0 and right now it's not even at .500.

Yeah maybe we're all bored and that's part of it, this team sucks so it can't distract us much from life woes.  I still feel though that this forum is reaching it's end.

[Murph]

"It was only about sports and we escaped to such places like this forum to just get away from real life issues? That seems so long ago now and I miss those days of DetroitPistonsTalk being 50 to 60 posters strong.   It's now 2018 I've been doing this thing with some of you since 2004 that's 14 years and I now a couple of you were doing this thing long before me joining in.

We've gotten older our lives have change right along with everything else as time passes and so how we operate on this dying forum.  Politics, religion, race and economics has made it's way into sports rather we like it or not.  No longer can we discuss sports without some impact from all these non sports related
issues."


Wise...good post.  Yes, sports have always been an escape for me, along with this forum.  Not matter what was happening in the world, or in my life, I can always tune into the Pistons, enjoy the game (or not), and then bitch about it on this forum.  

Unfortunately, the DetNews shut down their forum, and some of us migrated to this forum.  But there really isn't any way to acquire new posters, and so the forum has steadily dwindled to a precious few.  

But I think you've hit on an important point.  We are all getting older, and the world is changing, and we find it difficult to deal with.  I know I do.  So we take it has a sign that things are ending...when it's really us that are growing old and cranky and jaded.

I have to remember to look at the world through my children's eyes.  They are 16 and 18, and they have their whole lives ahead of them.  They will go to college, and meet lifelong friends, and get jobs, and have careers, and meet their spouses and get married, and have their own kids.  



And really, the environment in which my kids will mature has never been better.  This country has never been more diverse.  The economy has never been stronger.  The standard of living has never been higher, for everyone.  Jobs are plentiful.  And although it doesn't seem like it, racism has been steadily declining and continues to decline throughout my lifetime.  

And the fact that we are able to discuss the problems that do still exist, such as the criminal justice system, is a good sign, not a bad sign.  Heck, when I was growing up, Kaepenick never even would have been a QB, let alone an angry
social justice warrior QB, because there were almost no black QBs.  

When I was growning up, HOFer Warren Moon had to play in the Canadian Football League for 6 freaking years, before he could get a job as an NFL QB, because he was black.

And Barack Obama....as President of the United States.  I may not have agreed with many his policies, but the fact that he was President, and a very popular one, speaks volumes about this country.

So please try to remember how bad things use to be in this country, and how far we've come, and how far we will continue go as a nation.

[Oracle]

No games, no real Piston news... we're bored and drifting off to other issues.

Wise & Sparma: Don't let this get you down, as soon as we get some action, Merc, Lemonpen and others will come back. Trump has set off a sh!t storm in this country, but there is some good that has come out because of him.

Some of his policies, which aren't his, but republican, using him as a simpleton signer, are ones I thought Obama should have done. Unfortunately, they're portraying them as big policy, when they're only short term sugar highs designed to get them reelected. Once the sugar wears off things will be a lot worse because the real changes needed haven't been enacted.

However, the big thing Trump has helped us with is exposing how fragile this democracy really is. There are a lot of fixes needed to limit what a president can do, and a lot of things people thought were required, that turned out to be simple norms. But we won't change them until we play the same game on the GOP. They aren't going to win the presidency for a long time, mark my words.

You learn best by your mistakes...


Don, you're clueless, as I said, you're totally incapable of seeing yourself, the result of many years of brain washing not doubt.

You don't just disagree, if people don't believe as you do, your favorite attack is that they don't love America. The fact that you can say that means two things. You want people to parrot your line and be politically correct, and you don't really believe in America, or those vile words would never come out of your mouth.

BTW, I'm sure there are those that hate America, but what's wrong with that? The service men you claim to worship fought for them to have that right, or so they tell me. Any government that has to force people to love it is already in trouble, which is why brain washing kids with the pledge and forcing people to behave in any way during it is sick.

This is real life Don, you can't make people love you!

[cool breeze]

Political correctness, while a big problem, isn't the biggest problem. Look at everyone's posts and see how each wants the other to adhere to some form of political correctness. Don reeks of it so much it's amazing, and I only bring him up because he's been that way so long it's ridiculous, not to mention his massive double standards that permeate both his sports and life postings. Sadly, he can't see himself at all.

Murph, I'm not an atheist because I believe in something, just not the God organized religion puts forth. They're like children who know that there's this invisible thing called electricity, but because they don't understand it, make it a God or a Devil.

No God would have laws that don't work in every circumstance, rules that can be broken, and what idiot would watch animals rape or hurt children and not stop it immediately. Hell nobody on this board would let that happen... so much for an all knowing and all seeing God. BTW, since God can do anything, how about going back in time and stopping the killing of the American Indians, or stopping the slave trade? Hey, it's never too late if you're all powerful.

If there is a God, his laws would be the laws of physics. Oddly the "God" equation, E=MC2, isn't understood by lay people, but if a God existed, he would have had to be in control of this equation, which governs the creation and destruction of matter.

But I digress! The real problem is that this country needs to enter a 12 step program, because we're in total and complete denial.

We pretend everything is not partisan, we pretend justice is blind, we pretend the country is not racist, we pretend we have a free market, we pretend everybody is equal. So we can't make America great again, America was never great. Greatness implies little room for improvement, and that so far from reality it's amazing people can say that with a straight face.

Until we stop pretending and start being honest with ourselves, none of our real problems will ever be solved. We'll just keep pushing the ball down the road, not noticing that the damn thing is ticking until it's too late. Amazingly Liberals believe everything will work out, Conservatives don't really believe that, but won't split off to do their own thing.

You can live with people that you disagree with, even if you argue a lot, but you can't live with people who's values are fundamentally and radically different... and why would you want that?

The bill will come due, but it'll come due to another generation... no one will forget, and when the majority becomes the minority, payment will be made one way or another.

At times we agree on Piston matters Oracle even though at times you have the need to attack posters personally especially me with insults and argument of intimidation. This classifying of people with generalizations is special relating to politics. I I believe in keeping the Constitution and the Bill of Rights does that make me "Politically correct"?If I am "politically correct" how can I be an Independent ( former liberal democrat who lost his party to Progressives) voter? If I support Trump as President and love his policies and incredible work ethic, how can I be politically correct? By the way I love how some Americans are embracing "Nationalism" and expressing love for their country. I am one of the "deplorable" voters who went against the grain or establishment where the candidates were supposed to be Clinton and Bush? Maybe because I am a combat vet and have a family history of relatives who served in the armed forces so I believe people should keep politics out and stand for the National Anthem to respect those who died when serving our country I am out of line and condemned as "politically correct". I am proud of the way I have lived my life Oracle and always tried to do the right thing which was my Father's only request of me. You provide a lot of nasty assumptions or petty digs when you disagree with people and seldom write anything enlightening but at times you have had some good thoughts about Piston basketball.

We should all be able to agree to disagree about everything especially the Pistons. I never feel threatened by anything anybody says but will respond if I disagree as we all should. We we can do that then your prediction for the future will be wrong. As a long time Piston fan, player and coach I can't help it that I am addicted basketball. I really like reading what others think about the team and enjoy discussing things on this forum especially the Pistons, Lions, Tigers and the college teams. If posters post something on politics I do not agree with, then I might respond and we can all do that still as Americans. You have the need to stereotype people which I find odd for an adult person in this day and age. The world is not going to hell in a hand basket. Good things will happen if we are kind people and help others who struggle in life. If we can stay away from hate groups, we can benefit others and have a clearer perception of things. This forum is not coming to an end. The season hasn't yet begun. Go Pistons!

[Sparma]

Great post, Wise.

And I'm with you (by and large) on the political stuff; scary how divisive it is though, also on the forum.

The forum's end does seem to be in sight, but it's been quite a ride, as you eloquently describe.

It was only about sports and we escaped to such places like this forum to just get away from real life issues? That seems so long ago now and I miss those days of DetroitPistonsTalk being 50 to 60 posters strong.   It's now 2018 I've been doing this thing with some of you since 2004 that's 14 years and I now a couple of you were doing this thing long before me joining in.

We've gotten older our lives have change right along with everything else as time passes and so how we operate on this dying forum.  Politics, religion, race and economics has made it's way into sports rather we like it or not.  No longer can we discuss sports without some impact from all these non sports related
issues.   

I know this forum is on it's last leg and in no time none of us will be posting here.  I'll be sad when it finally happens but it has to happen this way there's no turning back or turning it off.  We've likely reached a point of no return on life in general and that sadden be as well,  it's sad that we as humans were unable to progress in a positive manner instead we've gotten worse over time simply because we can't find a way or method that love for humanity rises above our own self interest.   

We were already opening the flood gates with the introduction of social media into the sports environment with what should have been fun fan participation much in the way it was with Pistons Talk.  Sadly **** got real and the opinions went well beyond discussing stats and win and losses now we have a President that blew the flood gate off it's hinges that race has become the larger issue with sports,  along with politics and religion.  

The President **** is one part of it but sports itself is to blame because they open the door as well when they should have slammed it (social media door) shut.   I'm not surprise we've arrived to this point and I doubt if we're ever be back to a point that only sports matter because race and politics was always an issue with sports. it's going to always be that old pain of racisms rather one defending it, denying it the **** is real.

The Soul Fist at the Olympic Games,  NBA Owners using the N Word, OJ, Bruce Jenner, Jackie Robinson, Ali, Joe Louis, Ray Lewis, Jesses Owens, Sam Mitchell, Tim Tebow, and now Kaepernick all have brought into sports some form of religion, politics, race, criminal injustice, various social matters and various opinions. Will it end I doubt it, will it get worse I think so.   

The End Game is the End.

[WTF]

It was only about sports and we escaped to such places like this forum to just get away from real life issues? That seems so long ago now and I miss those days of DetroitPistonsTalk being 50 to 60 posters strong.   It's now 2018 I've been doing this thing with some of you since 2004 that's 14 years and I now a couple of you were doing this thing long before me joining in.

We've gotten older our lives have change right along with everything else as time passes and so how we operate on this dying forum.  Politics, religion, race and economics has made it's way into sports rather we like it or not.  No longer can we discuss sports without some impact from all these non sports related
issues.   

I know this forum is on it's last leg and in no time none of us will be posting here.  I'll be sad when it finally happens but it has to happen this way there's no turning back or turning it off.  We've likely reached a point of no return on life in general and that sadden be as well,  it's sad that we as humans were unable to progress in a positive manner instead we've gotten worse over time simply because we can't find a way or method that love for humanity rises above our own self interest.   

We were already opening the flood gates with the introduction of social media into the sports environment with what should have been fun fan participation much in the way it was with Pistons Talk.  Sadly **** got real and the opinions went well beyond discussing stats and win and losses now we have a President that blew the flood gate off it's hinges that race has become the larger issue with sports,  along with politics and religion.  

The President **** is one part of it but sports itself is to blame because they open the door as well when they should have slammed it (social media door) shut.   I'm not surprise we've arrived to this point and I doubt if we're ever be back to a point that only sports matter because race and politics was always an issue with sports. it's going to always be that old pain of racisms rather one defending it, denying it the **** is real.

The Soul Fist at the Olympic Games,  NBA Owners using the N Word, OJ, Bruce Jenner, Jackie Robinson, Ali, Joe Louis, Ray Lewis, Jesses Owens, Sam Mitchell, Tim Tebow, and now Kaepernick all have brought into sports some form of religion, politics, race, criminal injustice, various social matters and various opinions. Will it end I doubt it, will it get worse I think so.   

The End Game is the End.

[WTF]

All I said was way to go Nike    

Dang Nike and Newports have the same logo    Gee you burn and smoke Newports at the same time.

[Oracle]

Political correctness, while a big problem, isn't the biggest problem. Look at everyone's posts and see how each wants the other to adhere to some form of political correctness. Don reeks of it so much it's amazing, and I only bring him up because he's been that way so long it's ridiculous, not to mention his massive double standards that permeate both his sports and life postings. Sadly, he can't see himself at all.

Murph, I'm not an atheist because I believe in something, just not the God organized religion puts forth. They're like children who know that there's this invisible thing called electricity, but because they don't understand it, make it a God or a Devil.

No God would have laws that don't work in every circumstance, rules that can be broken, and what idiot would watch animals rape or hurt children and not stop it immediately. Hell nobody on this board would let that happen... so much for an all knowing and all seeing God. BTW, since God can do anything, how about going back in time and stopping the killing of the American Indians, or stopping the slave trade? Hey, it's never too late if you're all powerful.

If there is a God, his laws would be the laws of physics. Oddly the "God" equation, E=MC2, isn't understood by lay people, but if a God existed, he would have had to be in control of this equation, which governs the creation and destruction of matter.

But I digress! The real problem is that this country needs to enter a 12 step program, because we're in total and complete denial.

We pretend everything is not partisan, we pretend justice is blind, we pretend the country is not racist, we pretend we have a free market, we pretend everybody is equal. So we can't make America great again, America was never great. Greatness implies little room for improvement, and that so far from reality it's amazing people can say that with a straight face.

Until we stop pretending and start being honest with ourselves, none of our real problems will ever be solved. We'll just keep pushing the ball down the road, not noticing that the damn thing is ticking until it's too late. Amazingly Liberals believe everything will work out, Conservatives don't really believe that, but won't split off to do their own thing.

You can live with people that you disagree with, even if you argue a lot, but you can't live with people who's values are fundamentally and radically different... and why would you want that?

The bill will come due, but it'll come due to another generation... no one will forget, and when the majority becomes the minority, payment will be made one way or another.

[BallinD]

Murph, I am pretty sure I never called you a racist, if you assume I did, I apologize for that miscommunication.  In fact if you read what I wrote, I never called anyone a racist.

For context, this issue has been ongoing for quite a while and it irritates the hell out of me that so many good ole Americans are freaking out and and making all kinds of hateful comments and ignoring/refusing to acknowledge the core issue which is police brutality and an obscenely biased criminal justice system.  This disproportionately affects people of color, but actually affects all Americans and feeds a for-profit-prison system housing 19% of all prisoners.

The Nike Ad brought this to a boil 22.6 million people who commented on, liked or retweeted that Nike would feature Kaepernick as the face of its newest "Just Do It" campaign.  The ignorance and vitriol is deafening and the same came from the President who called the protesters "sons of bitches" for exercising their right to free speech for a humanitarian cause.

My post referred consistently to "they," the great mass of people (black, brown, red and white, but mostly white), who ignore the issue and paint it as disrespecting the flag, when the history of the protests, and the statements of the protesters state has nothing at all to do with the flag or the military as many many in the military have attested.  The act of kneeling is a show of deference and respect, not disrespect. "Kneeling is a sign of reverence, submissiveness, deference—and sometimes mourning and vulnerability," Google.

The part in my post which was directed at you, Murph, was the part about Nike and the fact that objective reports and financial analysts state that the shares of all three big shoe companies dropped significantly.  

I can see how you got confused, but unless you fall in the category of the Good Ole American Racist, which I doubt, I was not directing those comments at you as a racist, but as one who did not acknowledge or recognize that Nike just gave significant traction to a critical American/humanitarian issue that Nike believes is of great concern to a majority of its demographic...29-younger overall of any race, and specifically minorities as well as those who recognize minority citizens' concerns.

[Murph]

I don't mind telling you, BallinD, that you're wrong on all counts.  I don't drink Bud Light (I prefer Sam Adams), I'm not Catholic (I'm an atheist who is not affiliated with a church), and I can't stand the Pope (he's a socialist do-gooder, except when it comes to protecting children).  

But I am a registered Democrat who attended one of the most liberal colleges in the country, and before I was married, I dated Asian women, African American women, Hispanic women, and Jewish women.  

So none of your stereo-types about white folks applies to me.  Sorry.


I just think it's ridiculous for Nike to pose as a corporate social justice warrior to sell shoes, after exploiting Asians in their sweatshops for decades.    

Geesh.  What a bunch of hypocrites.


And I never even addressed the Kaepernick issue. My post was about Nike.


Oh...and one last point.  I wasn't the one that brought up Nike and politics...again.

Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of  sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children.  "Silence.  Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply.  No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that.  But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.  
   
BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped.  Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  How Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?     Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.

[cool breeze]

Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.

BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Ballin this just shows how much they hate people of color what funny is they're cheap asses weren't buying Jordan's and Air Max any way but instead buy out dated knock off version of Nikes at Marshalls or some cheap shoe outlet.  

One Mexican kills a young lady and they're ready to jump on all Mexicans 2 weeks later they're quiet as a mouse when one of their own shoot up a gaming event and kill a black person.  Screw these racist clowns.

When they think about America they think about all the racist vile activities they gave them a false sense of security.  Of course its okay priest touch boys because this is okay when you don't support morality.   Because they don't support morality they'll never get what Kap and Nike are doing it will never penetrate their racist thoughts.  

Maybe if they understood what morality means they could understand what that new ad is saying, SACRIFICE EVERYTHING perhaps Nike don't care if they're racist ass wear their product and logo on their racist feet so they don't mind the decline in sells.  

I doubt very seriously if they're dumb asses and protest had any effect on the Nikes sells anyway.   They best be careful that Nike don't create its own league NBA and NFL and take all of their black athletes.

Just know in some people minds if it ain't white it ain't right.  

You miss the point Ballin standing for the National Anthem was intended to honor fallen service men and women. My Father fought with a Black unit at the Battle of The Bulge and then went on to marry a Black women who gave birth to me. Many soldiers and airmen who happened by chance to be born Black died in wars those who fought or knew them and were proud stand and solute the flag. If we have Mr. K. wearing socks depicted as pigs while kneeling like he is taking a big crap on our country, then people will get upset. It just show ignorance and nothing more and hurts chances of people coming together and finally forgetting about race and past transgressions. Kneeling doesn't bring our country together it causes a divide which of course the intention of such acts.

Bringing up the issue of degenerate Priests is special. Maybe they molested a higher percentage of Black kids than White kids. I doubt that is true but your activist buddies should get on it and find out the percentages. Could be this is another strike against the Black race. Isn't it grand to think in terms of the color of our skin regarding every issue in life. Most people of color I have ever known just really want to be called by their names and considered American citizens not African-Americans which is a plantation term to identify Black slaves if you are not aware. You can thank our people from academe for bringing that term back in play. There are the activists who claim to be able to feel the pain of past transgressions of every minority person. March with those leaders and say, "What do we need?" You know the rest of that chant.  In another 40 years more people like you will keep playing the race card and the victim card. What are the Asians doing to better their lives? The Asians are laughing all the way to the bank. They don't play the victim card. It is difficult to do that when you hold grudges and keep stoking the fire of hate. You don't represent Black citizens who live in the USA. Everyone is an individual and is born with individual rights according to our Constitution. You should be focused on hoping our Constitution with the Bill of Rights remains intact. Many of us are tired of the bull crap because it prevents us from moving up to a new better level. You are dragging us down in the sewer. Rise above like Martin Luther King suggested. And remember the people in the military who sacrificed their lives for something other than themselves. We all know the game pan for progressives is to create mob rule. for a few years it will be targeting football games with the kneeling nonsense and then it will be something else. Perhaps to stop this political stunt, the NFL should not play the National Anthem. That would be better than destroying a tradition that honors brothers and sisters who died in war of all colors.

I think nobody is mumbling about the kneeling issue or Mr. K. The Clown is making money off his political protest because one idiot executive from Nike made a stupid decision for that company. Fortunately there are a lot of minority football players who do the right thing and maybe they all had it a lot rougher than Mr. K did in his childhood. The vast majority of sports fans who watch rich professional athletes play their sport just want to watch the game. Nobody wants to watch Mr. K. because he is not a very good player. They could care less what the players might think about things outside of their sport. It is fortunate for those of us who are minority people that most people do not believe that everyone is joined at the hip with K the Clown. We are not victims or political followers who can be led by the nose by handlers of Mr. K. Most sports fans still think those people who keep bringing politics into everything in life are a bit touched in the head and should be ignored. Lights, camera, action let the games begin and just ignore the nonsense because something new will be brought out in time. Maybe players who hold a grudge about something and need special attention, might have sex with a love doll at the 50 yard line while the band marches onto the field.

[Sponsored content]