Oh Say Can You See

[BallinD]

WTF and others want to kneel during the National Anthem and love Mr. K and Nike. Others like me want to show respect for those in the armed forces and law enforcement who have given their lives.
Show respect like your president does, right?!?!  Link to Washington Examiner Article about trump sitting and chatting during National Anthem:  Trump Sits This One Out (Anthem)  Do as I say, not as I do, huh. Clever!

Nobody agrees with me about the Pistons so I do not expect or care if anyone respects my thoughts about leaving politics out of sporting events. When you mandate standing for the anthem (Is this Communist China?!) You injected politics into sports.  Duhhh.  Should we close the concession stands and issue citations and muzzles to all the fans who talk, drink beer, curse, talk or play on their phones during the anthem?! all these "Sons of Bitches."

Again what good comes from causing more division between races? Sporting events used to show that people can have things in common. Or show the thin veneer of civility, until they lo leave the stadium and re-enter the real world?  When you say "used to," does that also mean during the Muhammad Ali era, or the Civil Rights era?!  Protest is as American as Apple Pie and it is designed to "DRAW ATTENTION" to perceived injustices.

What are people thinking now when they see a Black, White or Asian face? We are back in the Dark Ages where the World is supposed to be flat. Violence is random and affects all of us if we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In war if you go right in the jungle you might step on a pressure explosive device. If you go left you might be OK. It didn't matter if you were Black or White. We were all Brothers in the field. When I played football, basketball, baseball and ran track my teammates were my leave the stadium and again, it's back to friends that I trusted. No connection was made relating to race. Are your individual lives affected now relating to racism? I suppose they must be because I sense a lot of bitterness in your words against the White race. I come from a family created by a mixed marriage. I read this stuff and think maybe we are returning to the stone age.  Was the 1960s the Stone Age?  Wow, it was so long ago.  Do you even pay attention to national events or do you have your head in the sand like an ostrich?!  Anger is due to people who try to pretend this shtuff does not happen.  Have you ever been harassed by police because of your color, have relatives who were?  Would you not be angry at the hypocrisy?!

The bottom line is the only thing that makes any sense is to judge events and situations on an individual basis and not generalize. Has anyone checked the stats of how many Black cops have been killed in America while trying to do their jobs? How many officer related shootings where Black officers shot a suspect have happened in the modern age? How many bad people who actually commit violent crimes are Black in America? Don't most of those bad guys shoot Black citizens? What is scary to me is what has happened in the City of Chicago. Most of the victims are Black yet if you don't live in the neighborhoods there few people really know how terrified those citizens must be yet the main stream media could care less. Could that be because of the impact of the drug economy in the USA? Why don't people march and protect why our government cannot stop the drug traders that have infected people of every walk of life and every race. Chicago has some of the strict gun laws but the bad guys get military grade weapons there. The arrest rate in 2014 was only 10% of all non fatal shootings. The arrest rate in 2016 was worse at 5%. Chicago police made arrests on only 27% of homicides since 2010. Those stats came from the U of Chicago.  What are the stats on violence in Detroit? What is the racial mix percentages of the races within the police department. Do the officers hate each other if they have a different color? I think the kneeling is pure politics. The Blacks are victims yet most of the violence committed against them are not coming from the police but the bad guys within their own race. For those of you who are mad as hell and believe you are victims why don't you call out for vengeance against the criminals like those in Chicago who don't fear the police or the Justice system because they know no arrest will be made because the witnesses know they will be killed by the gangs if they stand up? I don't hear the Black leaders talking about what is really going on. Are they being paid off by the gangs involved in the drug trade and other crime or are they afraid like the innocent folks who have to dodge the bullets in the projects? Are the people more afraid of the police or the criminals who are allowed to run wild by the courts run by the American Bar Association?  Again, you are comparing the behavior of trained public servants who are the employees of tax-paying citizens to that of criminals?

Why not keep this forum simple and discuss the Pistons. You don't hate Murph because he responds to the subject of race and who is a racist? You hate Trump more than anything in the world right now much like you hated Bush. After all didn't Bush cause 9-11? Wasn't Gerald Ford too clumsy to be President? None of the republicans are Presidential enough whatever that means. I don't pretend to know what is in Trump's heart like you that hate him do but I do at least know about what his goals are to improve our economy. Republicans and democrats in Washington DC are mostly Globalists because that gives them the opportunity to line their own pockets when they screw American tax payers by making bad trade deals or allowing the members of NATO to not pay their fair share.  Just show me the money is the theme in DC and has been for years. Who do you trust? I don't trust any democrats in Congress right now and I was a democrat for many years. I don't like Trump's personality but I love how hard he works to make our Country great again.  Great again?! Great for who?!  When was it ever Great for African Americans, for Native Americans?!  Tell me.

Shall we keep talking about Black Lives Matter themes or Donald Trump and how he might be affecting our bowel movements? Or can we turn to the Pistons and keep our common bond this season? I hate politics so that is why I study past hirstory where you can actually know the facts. Who is going to play point guard this season? Please put Reggie on the wing or baseline and feature his shooting not his dribbling. RJ is not a point guard.

[cool breeze]

WTF and others want to kneel during the National Anthem and love Mr. K and Nike. Others like me want to show respect for those in the armed forces and law enforcement who have given their lives. Nobody agrees with me about the Pistons so I do not expect or care if anyone respects my thoughts about leaving politics out of sporting events. Again what good comes from causing more division between races? Sporting events used to show that people can have things in common. What are people thinking now when they see a Black, White or Asian face? We are back in the Dark Ages where the World is supposed to be flat. Violence is random and affects all of us if we are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In war if you go right in the jungle you might step on a pressure explosive device. If you go left you might be OK. It didn't matter if you were Black or White. We were all Brothers in the field. When I played football, basketball, baseball and ran track my teammates were my friends that I trusted. No connection was made relating to race. Are your individual lives affected now relating to racism? I suppose they must be because I sense a lot of bitterness in your words against the White race. I come from a family created by a mixed marriage. I read this stuff and think maybe we are returning to the stone age.

The bottom line is the only thing that makes any sense is to judge events and situations on an individual basis and not generalize. Has anyone checked the stats of how many Black cops have been killed in America while trying to do their jobs? How many officer related shootings where Black officers shot a suspect have happened in the modern age? How many bad people who actually commit violent crimes are Black in America? Don't most of those bad guys shoot Black citizens? What is scary to me is what has happened in the City of Chicago. Most of the victims are Black yet if you don't live in the neighborhoods there few people really know how terrified those citizens must be yet the main stream media could care less. Could that be because of the impact of the drug economy in the USA? Why don't people march and protect why our government cannot stop the drug traders that have infected people of every walk of life and every race. Chicago has some of the strict gun laws but the bad guys get military grade weapons there. The arrest rate in 2014 was only 10% of all non fatal shootings. The arrest rate in 2016 was worse at 5%. Chicago police made arrests on only 27% of homicides since 2010. Those stats came from the U of Chicago. What are the stats on violence in Detroit? What is the racial mix percentages of the races within the police department. Do the officers hate each other if they have a different color? I think the kneeling is pure politics. The Blacks are victims yet most of the violence committed against them are not coming from the police but the bad guys within their own race. For those of you who are mad as hell and believe you are victims why don't you call out for vengeance against the criminals like those in Chicago who don't fear the police or the Justice system because they know no arrest will be made because the witnesses know they will be killed by the gangs if they stand up? I don't hear the Black leaders talking about what is really going on. Are they being paid off by the gangs involved in the drug trade and other crime or are they afraid like the innocent folks who have to dodge the bullets in the projects? Are the people more afraid of the police or the criminals who are allowed to run wild by the courts run by the American Bar Association?

Why not keep this forum simple and discuss the Pistons. You don't hate Murph because he responds to the subject of race and who is a racist? You hate Trump more than anything in the world right now much like you hated Bush. After all didn't Bush cause 9-11? Wasn't Gerald Ford too clumsy to be President? None of the republicans are Presidential enough whatever that means. I don't pretend to know what is in Trump's heart like you that hate him do but I do at least know about what his goals are to improve our economy. Republicans and democrats in Washington DC are mostly Globalists because that gives them the opportunity to line their own pockets when they screw American tax payers by making bad trade deals or allowing the members of NATO to not pay their fair share. Just show me the money is the theme in DC and has been for years. Who do you trust? I don't trust any democrats in Congress right now and I was a democrat for many years. I don't like Trump's personality but I love how hard he works to make our Country great again.

Shall we keep talking about Black Lives Matter themes or Donald Trump and how he might be affecting our bowel movements? Or can we turn to the Pistons and keep our common bond this season? I hate politics so that is why I study past history where you can actually know the facts. Who is going to play point guard this season? Please put Reggie on the wing or baseline and feature his shooting not his dribbling. RJ is not a point guard.

[WTF]

This is why Kap Kneeled!!!! and this is what he protest because some think stuff like this is okay,  He kneeled because this isn't okay and it's not acceptable and shouldn't be!!!.  

As a black man I can't accidentally walk in my white neighbor house and shot them and walk around free 3 days after words.  If it wasn't for people like Kap kneeling, or public outcry she'll still be walking around free because his life really didn't matter.  If it did he'll still be alive today!!!!  Nike did the right thing now so should others follow suit and support Kap and others that protest this stuff.

[WTF]

Ni they can't Ballin that's why they like tagging me as a liberal when I'm actually more conservative at how a I view the world.  But it doesn't matter what side your standing on compassion and humanity should always come first.   

There's not much I like about Trump and that's from an political and non political point of view.  I don't like assholes period so I can see pass that to like any of his policies which are few.   I'm all for regulation because companies, corporation, industries need to be held in check and held accountable because they all but proved they're not to be trusted and more of Corporate Whores than say Nike.  They're too freaking greedy to be concerning.   I don't care who's in office regulation should always be in play. 

I don't find the **** Trump does as being cute or funny, or for play and there's nothing fake about what he say's and don't say when it comes to Russia, or this thin line he walks on racial matters.  

While I think border patrol and trade is important it should never come at expense moral values and compassion.  Trump plays to a racist base and I don't like that and it's not fake news. We see it and hear every day from the man himself, you can't be mad at MSNBC, CNN and others for reporting on what he say's they're not putting words in his mouth, or making the **** up.

Kap protest had nothing to do with protesting the flag but Trump used it too rile up his base by feeding them that lie.  If they're not racist they sure do act like it more time than not.

[BallinD]

You know Murph, you and Cool can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, right? 

It is possible to be for justice and for Trump at the same time.  You are men, or are you GroupThinkers?  He is possibly dumber than Bush Jr. and that's saying a lot.  Why take your talking points from this person.  

He hijacked the Kap social justice movement and wrapped it in the Red Herring of the American Flag to deflect from the real issue of Police Conduct and the obviously biased criminal justice system and folks like you swallow it whole, hate on Kap and hate on Nike for supporting Kap, trying to Make America Greater than it currently is...for everybody, Black, Brown, Red and White.

It is possible to like his economic policies and dislike other aspects of his bombast.  For example, personally I am inclined to like his anti-globalism shtick, yet despise his approach to Israel, among other head-scratching straight-up discrepancies. Nor do I buy the Russia sock-puppet narrative. And being a former journalist, I can easily agree that Fake News is sometimes a very Real Thing.

Cognitive Dissonance anyone?

[WTF]

Nike: Yeah again hats off to Nike and as soon as get a chance to look at Kap line of items and goods, I'm buying!!!!  Yeah  know some are cheering for the shoe company demise but it's not going to happen SMH.   Again proud of Nike, and other companies should follow suit and I'm sure some are looking at if they should join in as well.

My original post had nothing to do with Trump, politics or race.  Murph you brought these things up! I only addressed your remarks.


BTW Black communities stand up and rally against black on black crime all day every day across this country but they also rally against other things like cops killing unarmed black men, or Tainted Water in Flint,  or stand your ground BS killings, so on and so on.   The list is extremely long so Black Folks are fighting on a whole bunch of fronts.  (You don't have a clue) 

Murph when you hate on Kap you're hating on his right to protest and the cause in which he's protesting, when you hate on Nike you hating on them for standing up in support of Kap.

[Murph]

So not only has African American unemployment hit an historic lows under Trump, but I read an interesting statistic that the number of black owned businesses has increased 400% since Trump was elected.  Let me repeat that.  The number of black owned businesses has quadrupled in 2 years since Trump was elected.

And as you probably know, small businesses have been the driving force behind employment for probably 3 decades now.  As large corporations have downsized, small businesses have accounted for virtually 100% of job growth in the last 30 years.  So a 4 fold increase in black owned small businesses is very significant.


Let me offer an opinion.  Trump could really care less about race.  Trump is a businessman.  He was elected to improve the business environment, the economy and the job market in this country....for everyone...for all Americans.  So far, he has been wildly successful.

[Murph]

Oracle...I'm not the one who conflated the killing of unarmed African American men by cops, with intra-racial murders.  Wise did, when he made this statement.

"Also it's not only wrongful death perpetrated by the police but my white citizens that seem to get away with wrongfully killing blacks as well."

I was just pointing out that many more whites are murdered by blacks than vice versa.

And of course there are good cops.  Probably 99% of cops are acting in good faith.  It's ridiculous to say there are no good cops, jsut because 19 unarmed black men were wrongfully killed in 2017, in a country of 326 million, including 21 million black men.


BallinD...you make many good points about cops acting with racial bias toward
African-Americans in traffic stops, interactions on the street, etc.

However, the Black Lives Matter movement is about wrongful shootings and has a lot of problems with their premises, philosophy and approach.  If BLM and Kaepernick really cared about black lives, they would address the outrageous black on black murder rates in cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Washington, St. Louis, etc.

And really, why didn't Obama, and why don't any modern day civil rights activists address the high black on black murder rates in this country?  Please answer me that.  Because a cynic would reply that they are more interested in politics and keeping their political base in a constant state of outrage (like Wise), than actually saving black lives.

At least Trump proposed an actual solution:  sent in the National Guards of various states to help the local police address the problem.


Wise...the population of Puerto Rico is 76% white...much whiter than the United States as a whole.  And what was Trump supposed to do about their antiquated power grid that got completely destroyed in Hurricane Maria???  That power grid was in existence long before Trump got elected.


Really...you libs with blame Trump for anything.

[WTF]

I'm going to be proud of Nike and Kap regardless to the lies spread by those refusing to accept the truth about the protest.  All wrongful unlawful criminal killing of any kind should be protested.   

We all should be dying of old age and natural causes not from racist police, black on black crimes, lead in the water, pollution in the air, tainted produce, lack of healthcare, mass shootings or suicide from depression.  

3000 people didn't die in Puerto Rica so I guess in the mind of those that support nonsense would also be in denial about what Kap is/was protesting.  NFL TV ratings are fading but Nike stock is on the rise.

[BallinD]

That Nike Thing...
1. Nike Stock at All Time High

2. Nike Sales up 31 Percent

But beyond dollars and cents, I have a dear, longtime white friend who lives in North Scottsdale, one of the more affluent areas of the country, who happens to be an older gentleman. He was a Freedom Rider in the deep south during the civil rights protest era. He often mentions how he did it because it was the right thing to do and his conscience compelled him to peacefully protest. He tells me now, looking back, he is so glad he was on the right side of history.

What side of history will you be on after all is said and done? The side that was dragged kicking and screaming toward the reality of "We Hold These Truths To Be Self-Evident...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thomas Jefferson

[BallinD]

Murph, Murph, Murph.  Appealing to your humanity here.  Again, not calling you racist, so now that's out of the way...

Love your strawman argument about deaths due to dirty, dumb cops, but it don't hold water, let alone straw.  Even if we say that yeah, there's less than an epidemic of dead black men and women at the hand of cops this year, let's also codify Anxiety from:
1. Driving while black.
2. Sitting on the stoop while black
3. In my own home (Topeka, Kansas) while black, while cops kick in my door point AR15s at me, collar me and handcuff me because somebody said a Hispanic man did XYZ.
4.  Shopping while black.  Dirty looks, being followed in the store, etc.
5. Fill In The Blank _______________  _________________  _______________ while black.

So yeah, the other consequences of this are: Anxiety while black; Frustration while black; Fear while black; High blood pressure while black.  Plus, I have nieces, nephews, a son, daughters who are trying to live while black, so I have concerns beyond myself.

Hmmmmm. Whatsa matter, no black friends so "No Concern Nor Empathy" while White.

For Perspective read the link; bet you won't... https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/police-shootings-david-french-changed-writing/    Why While Black is a Thing

Salient points: David French, National Review article.

"Here’s the troubling part. Police kill far more people than we thought. The FBI had long undercounted police shootings, and it took news organizations — employing better methodology — to get more accurate information. If you survey the Post data, as of today, police have shot and killed 3,648 men, women, and children since January 1, 2015."

Here’s how the New York Times summarized the results:

Black men and women] are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.

But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.

No one (including the author of the study) claims this is the definitive study of police violence, but note how it gives both sides of the debate food for thought. The “blue lives matter” defenders of police should engage in serious soul-searching about the evidence of bias in nonlethal force. Black Lives Matters activists engaging in “open season” rhetoric should perhaps rethink their most extreme claims.

But I’m going to make a confession. Truth be told, the way I covered this issue in 2015 and much of 2016 shed more heat than light. Here’s what I did. I looked at the riots in Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore, and Charlotte, the extremism of the formal Black Lives Matter organization (which referred to convicted cop-killers as “brothers” and “mama” and said its explicit goal was to “disrupt the western-prescribed nuclear family structure”), and the continued use of debunked claims, including “hands up, don’t shoot,” and I focused on these excesses largely to the exclusion of everything else.

"Yes, I used all the proper “to be sure” language — there are some racist cops, not every shooting is justified, etc. — but my work in its totality minimized the vital quest for individual justice, the evidence that does exist of systematic racial bias, and I failed to seriously consider the very real problems that contribute to the sheer number of police killings in the U.S."

To put it bluntly, when I look back at my older writings, I see them as contributing more to a particular partisan narrative than to a tough, clear-eyed search for truth.

"So I’ve set out to rectify that imbalance. A person can walk and chew gum at the same time. One can rightly condemn riots and radicalism while also noting that each time a bad cop walks free it damages the fabric of trust between the government and its citizens. One can rightly say that it’s not “open season” on black men — or that any given inflammatory allegation has been thoroughly debunked — while also noting that the same DOJ that refuted “hands up, don’t shoot” also found evidence of systematic police misconduct in Ferguson.

Most cops do what’s right. Many cops are extraordinarily brave. But I also think the best evidence indicates that race is more of a factor in modern policing than I wanted to believe. I also think a pro-police bias has infected our criminal-justice system — including the way juries decide cases — and that pro-police bias has helped bad cops walk free. Moreover, there are legal doctrines that need to be reformed or abolished (such as qualified immunity, but that explanation requires a whole separate piece). And there should be a culture change in the way officers are taught to perceive risk, a culture change that thoughtful veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars could help initiate."

[Oracle]

So we're comparing criminals to Cops that are supposed to have years of training, supposed to be brave and "Hero's"?

The cops excuse is ALWAYS that they feared for their life. Well anybody that scared shouldn't be a cop, and cops need to be held to a higher standard.

No innocent person should be gunned down by these cowards. There are literally NO good cops, IMO. If there were good cops they'd turn in these cowards, inform on them and weed them out. But the won't, they exhibit gang behavior.

They don't even have the courage to speak out on what's going on in their departments... and we have these clowns carrying guns?

[WTF]

Number justification   

Look any loss of life is senseless period be it white on black and black on black the numbers shouldn't make it okay.  I doubt the numbers are correct with either article you posted especially the later one.   While I can agree that the numbers of black on black crimes are high I doubt very seriously that those numbers of black killing whites are not what is being claimed. I call BS on that one.

This has nothing to do with a political party though you consistently want to take it there.  Kap's protest has nothing to do with politics

[Murph]

The numbers do no bare out your accusations.  According to this US News and World Report Article, along with the Washington Post article I posted before, the following statistical observations are true.

An unarmed black man is 4 times more likely to be struck by lightning, than to be killed by a cop.

The number of whites killed by blacks in the year 2015, was 500.  The number of blacks killed by whites in 2015 was 229.

Furthermore, black on black crime in 2015 accounted for 89% of black murders.  While white on black crime accounted for 11% of black murders, and that figure includes white Hispanics.


So while the Black Lives Matter movement is useful to Democratic candidates to whip their base into a frenzy in hopes of turning out the vote, objectively speaking, their time would be much better spent reducing black on black murders...if they really cared about black lives, and not just politics.


https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

[WTF]

According to this Washington Post article, police shot and killed 19 unarmed black males in 2017.  That figures is up from 17 in 2016, but down significantly from 36 in 2015.

While the deaths of 19 unarmed black men at the hands of police is still way too high, we are a nation of 326 million people, including roughly 21 million black and multiracial African American males.

I don't want to discount those 19 deaths in any way, but 19 out of 21 million???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/nationwide-police-shot-and-killed-nearly-1000-people-in-2017/2018/01/04/4eed5f34-e4e9-11e7-ab50-621fe0588340_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2239cee80f9f

Sorry Murph 1 wrongful death is 1 too many.   If this 19 death were a result of criminal activity then that one thing but it's not.  Also it's not only wrongful death perpetrated by the police but my white citizens that seem to get away with wrongfully killing blacks as well.   It's about wrong incarceration and bias racial rulings by the justice system.  

No black lives don't really seem to matter to you because 1 life is 1 too many period.

[WTF]

"They're all Corporate Whores with very little if any integrity but I guess we pick and choose who we support.  Every single American company outsource jobs so go ahead and enjoy you Ford or GM while talking on your iPhone with the Comcast service representative in India while every piece of clothing you are wearing is made in Pakistan."

Wise...according to Cars.com, my Jeep Cherokee with assembled in Belvidere, IL, and contains the highest percentage of American parts of any car made. My Ford Explorer was assembled in Chicago, IL, and contains the 8th highest percentage of American parts.  And while my BMW 320 contains a high percentage of it's parts that were  manufactured in Germany, it was assembled in Spartansburg, SC.

https://www.cars.com/articles/carscom-2018-american-made-index-whats-the-most-american-car-1420700348632/


And Trump has been bashing Apple non-stop to move some or all of it's manufacturing facilities back to the US.

Still your vehicle contains parts made outside of the US even they were assembled in the US it doesn't matter.   I don't know what percentage of Nike products are made overseas but what I do know is that pays the NFL, NBA and MLB and NCAA a ton of money, as well as many professional American athletes to wear and promote its product.   

Look what Nike did for Jordan and Jordan for Nike perhaps they might do something similar on a smaller scale for Kap.   

BTW why is Trump bashing Apple when he does the same thing as Apple and others.  Lets not talk about where his money comes from...…..

[Murph]

According to this Washington Post article, police shot and killed 19 unarmed black males in 2017. That figures is up from 17 in 2016, but down significantly from 36 in 2015.

While the deaths of 19 unarmed black men at the hands of police is still way too high, we are a nation of 326 million people, including roughly 21 million black and multiracial African American males.

I don't want to discount those 19 deaths in any way, but 19 out of 21 million???

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/nationwide-police-shot-and-killed-nearly-1000-people-in-2017/2018/01/04/4eed5f34-e4e9-11e7-ab50-621fe0588340_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2239cee80f9f

[Murph]

"They're all Corporate Whores with very little if any integrity but I guess we pick and choose who we support.  Every single American company outsource jobs so go ahead and enjoy you Ford or GM while talking on your iPhone with the Comcast service representative in India while every piece of clothing you are wearing is made in Pakistan."

Wise...according to Cars.com, my Jeep Cherokee with assembled in Belvidere, IL, and contains the highest percentage of American parts of any car made. My Ford Explorer was assembled in Chicago, IL, and contains the 8th highest percentage of American parts.  And while my BMW 320 contains a high percentage of it's parts that were manufactured in Germany, it was assembled in Spartansburg, SC.

https://www.cars.com/articles/carscom-2018-american-made-index-whats-the-most-american-car-1420700348632/


And Trump has been bashing Apple non-stop to move some or all of it's manufacturing facilities back to the US.

[BallinD]

My starting lineup:  Subject to Pre-season Game Realities.

1. Weggie (if they can't manage to trade him).  Shoutout to DX, who can always be counted on to provide the most scathing critique on the Forum
2. Luke, great shot, good playmaker, secondary ball handler.  With Blake, has the best shot at helping elevate our offense to NBA serviceable.  Part of the future...
3. Bullock.  May have peaked in shooting (second best 3pt % in league among qualified gunners, but needs more usage.)  Great Spot-up Shooter, But Can He Get buckets on his own Cuts to the basket with the best of them. Spaces floor.  AMAZING chemistry with Blake and we need a lot more of that but this is the best place to start, not with Weggie who I'm pretty sure thinks he is better than Blake...after all he thinks he is better than Westbrook, LOL
4. BG, our new Point Forward and BullyBall aficionado
5. Dre, a beast in the East. Advice: Within three feet, go straight up toward the basket with your chest in someone's face.  No More Dipsy Do like you're the second coming of Charlie V. Sheeeesh.  And now you wanna shoot threes like CV...Nope!

6. Ish. 7. GRIII. 8. SJ. 9. Leuer. 10. Zaza

BTW: Here we go again, Murph:  Post to Follow.

[WTF]

If NIke had an ounce of integrity, they'd pay their workers more.  Better yet, they'd move their plants to the United States and employ American workers.  

Nike...what a bunch of corporate whores.


And what exactly has Colin Kaepernick ever done to improve the criminal justice system?   I mean what has he actually accomplished besides pissing off a lot of people?

Trump?  Oh yeah, he pushed through the Prison Reform Bill last August, with bi-partisan support.  The Prison reform bill gives incentives to prisoners for reduced sentences, and allows them to be housed closer to their families.  The Bill was crafted with the help of Ivanka Trump.

But I'm sure CNN hasn't covered that.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/388888-house-easily-passes-prison-reform-bill-backed-by-trump

They're all Corporate Whores with very little if any integrity but I guess we pick and choose who we support.  Every single American company outsource jobs so go ahead and enjoy you Ford or GM while talking on your iPhone with the Comcast service representative in India while every piece of clothing you are wearing is made in Pakistan.   

Oh Yeah how about he push a bill for them to be able to vote once released and what does this **** has to do with what I posted?  How about they start charging these police in this wrongful deaths of unarmed blacks?  But of course Black lives don't matter right Murph?

[Murph]

If NIke had an ounce of integrity, they'd pay their workers more.  Better yet, they'd move their plants to the United States and employ American workers.  

Nike...what a bunch of corporate whores.


And what exactly has Colin Kaepernick ever done to improve the criminal justice system? I mean what has he actually accomplished besides pissing off a lot of people?

Trump? Oh yeah, he pushed through the Prison Reform Bill last August, with bi-partisan support. The Prison reform bill gives incentives to prisoners for reduced sentences, and allows them to be housed closer to their families. The Bill was crafted with the help of Ivanka Trump.

But I'm sure CNN hasn't covered that.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/388888-house-easily-passes-prison-reform-bill-backed-by-trump

[WTF]

Lions: I'm looking at an 8-8 season no playoffs unless something miraculously happens this season because the schedule is a beast.  Ownership again found away to screw things up IMO by firing Jim Caldwell who I believe could have carried this team to some form of great success if not a Super Bowl visit to say the least.   

By no means will I place blame on Stafford, just like many not want to place blame on AD for not having all the pieces around him neither dose Stafford, and just like some could place large blame on AD's coach you can also at times say the same for Stafford.   Stafford had a **** first game but it doesn't speak for an entire season past, present or future.   

Lions ownership has screwed up again like most teams do they fall in love with suspect resumes when hiring coaches.  Okay I get it Patrice was with NE a very successful organization but are we surprise the Jets put up 48 points when this is the same point total Philly put on them in the Super Bowl.  IMO he's the reason NE and Brady couldn't pull it off last season.  

I don't like how Caldwell was fired or not resigned however one looks at it but I think it was ****.  I hate when team place the sole blame on coaches when they haven't put the players on the field needed.  It's not much different than why I often defend Stafford can some one tell me why we haven't made a play at Dez Bryant.   I'm not sure how much is in the tank but I do know it's not empty, also that O-line looked like **** and still no run game.

Okay some might be thinking then why am I so hard on AD and I'll say he doesn't have half the balls and guts of Stafford.  It should be far more easy and reasonable for AD to dominate, take over games and win them than it is for Stafford to do with minimum help.  See a .500 record don't get the Lions in the playoffs still Stafford delivers a .500 season consistently.  Boy only if AD delivered a .500 season year after year and season after season because a .500 for the Pistons all but put them in the playoff every freaking year.  

Nike: Yeah again hats off to Nike and as soon as get a chance to look at Kap line of items and goods, I'm buying!!!!  Yeah  know some are cheering for the shoe company demise but it's not going to happen SMH.   Again proud of Nike, and other companies should follow suit and I'm sure some are looking at if they should join in as well.

[deusXango]

Cool Breeze and BallinD...those are two excellent posts on Drummond.  From the information you provided, I have several observations about Andre's game.

1.  He needs to stop focusing on 3 point shots. As yet the 3 point shot isn't a part of AD's game...he hasn't shot one!
2.  He needs to stop shooting from more than 3 feet out. I agree 100% with that...dunk, dunk, dunk! Rebound and dunk.
3.  He needs to focus on rebounding and shot blocking. ?...isn't that what he's been doing? Oh, he's not the best across the board.
4.  He needs to stop passing out of the high post, so he turns the ball over less.
5.  He needs to let Griffin operate in the high post, while he patrols the low post on offense.
6.  Since he gets confused on defense, he needs to stop switching off of his man as much.
7.  He should not double team the ball handler; it only complicates his defensive assignment.  Hopefully, now that SVG is gone, that won't happen anymore.
8.  He needs to keep it simple, and work on improving what he does best. Yay! This is the most astute comment about AD!


Don...I think you’re going to be happy with Zaza’s defense.  The reason the Warriors stopped playing him was not because of his defense, it was because he had gained a reputation for being a dirty player.  But the Pistons could use a dirty player like Zara.  If anything the Pistons are too soft. I'm loving it if Zaza takes Henry under his wing and imparts the fine points of "dirty play" to him. Sure, given his tender years and softness, he'll get his ass kicked plenty but, as a result, he'll get a toughness to go along with a developing awesome skillset. Mental and physical toughness is what this team lacks.  

I've gotten used to the devaluation of Andre Drummonds skills/contributions because he's not anywhere from Hakeem Olajuwon to Anthony Davis by the age of 22 and really there's not many centers I'd trade him for straight up (Davis or "The Joker" to name a couple). I'm not trading him just to make a trade or because he missed an assignment (not blocking out Whiteside), but I'm watching him continue to develop playing alongside another quality big man.

I continue to be sickened by the importance placed on Reggie Jackson, "the most important piece of the Pistons puzzle;" you gotta be sh!tting me! He doesn't excel in any PG skill that would place him in the top 10; what he excels at is ball hogging and slowing the offense down, oh and not being available for competitive runs. We have no real idea what this team could've looked like or done over the last couple of years, and sample size performances don't cut it. Making excuses about injuries and harping on how great he is with the P & R is pure B.S.! Seasons lost are seasons lost. I don't want to depend on an undependable diva going forward simply because he's a ball dominate PG...we won't win with this guy!

The Vulcan Mind Meld is what's keeping Jon Leuer on the Pistons roster, must be. How can we forget that before the injury he began to punk out going against mediocre competition? Absent this guy, the Pistons could've kept Tolliver and Moreland and saved money (for all the unofficial bean counters). Would buying him out, before he reinjured himself, made any sense? I suggested this on another forum and some "informed" poster wondered if this was possible since SVG did that Stretch Provision on Josh Smith...is it true that this is something else we can thank SVG for? I can't believe some wanted to give that clown still another year to further set this franchise back.

Speaking of coaching, I'm mindful that a number of fans didn't want Casey to be hired, they'd rather have Van Gundy coach his last year (get a chance to sign a contract extension). I wonder how many games a SVG coached team would be predicted to win this year? The Lions had to dump Caldwell and had the "hots" for Patricia...first blush has left Lions fans where? Maybe it's my age but, I can't remember a Caldwell coached team getting their asses kicked like that coming out, home opener, on MNF. 0-16 with excuses?

[Sparma]

Langlois puts "the best/worst at 55 and 35 wins..."  He sees 55 wins as the "best" outcome within the range of viable predictions. I agree.

He goes on to say that he suspects the Vegas predictions of under 40 wins are low.  Again, I agree.  I'm not a betting man, but I think that predicting that the Pistons will win at least 40 games would be an excellent bet if someone were to give even odds.  Still, when one Vegas prediction after another comes in so low it does give me pause about my prediction of 44 wins.

55's not impossible, but so much would have to fall just right, including, as I see it, AD doing his best Ben imitation on D and as shot blocker, while contributing in a limited role on O, Blake both being an excellent pivot as passer and a guy who is still willing to push to the basket consistently, Reggie playing a la Reggie from last year's first 20 games in a dynamic, limited, defensively energized way, Galloway being revitalized as sharp shooter under Casey, Kennard emerging as a sharpshooting near star, Bullock playing even better than last year, Robinson being a major contributor, Stanley being valuable on D and smart as a shooter, and the bench (including ZaZa, Calderon, Leuer and the rooks) proving to be a real asset. To have any chance for all that to come true, Casey would need to emerge as the Wizard of Little Caesars Arena. We'd also need our competition to fall short left and right. That's a lot to hope for, but it's not the impossible dream.

[Sparma]

You can pencil me in for a 44 win prediction, Oracle. Even that's got me clammy handed recently, as the grim Vegas predictions (that I take seriously) trickle in. The year I won the pool, a couple of years ago, I ruthlessly stuck with a low prediction. But then the ambivalence of a) wanting to be right but b) wanting my team to win got to me during the course of the season got to me. That's partly why I went way high last year: I didn't enjoy any part of me rooting against the team (also, getting out from between people tends to up your odds, as Wise was the second in a row to experience last year). This year I'll make whatever prediction seems closest to what I foresee. Duh!

One game season for the Lions? I listened to most of the game and it was brutal, as you all know. They really, really needed to win that game because a 1-4 start already looked like a distinct possibility. Now it won't be shocking, or even very surprising, if they start 0-5. I try not to press the panic button quickly, but the coaching hire could already be doomed. And the season could be over. After one game.

Before the season, I saw them in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, like so many teams. Now a bunch of folks will deserve major kudos if they get back to 9-7. Seems really unlikely after that first game. Not too early to check out the draft!

Possible, but not probable. I'm thinking high 40's, 45-48 wins.

Speaking of what's possible....

Is it possible that Wise can defend Stafford for one second??? I felt lucky that a football Sunday went by without a Lion loss, but then Monday rolled around and those clowns, after a fantastic pick 6 for a 7-0 lead, loses 48-17, I quit watching when Stafford got to 4 picks... that's right, 4 effing picks for this highly paid VETERAN!

I know stuff happens, but it rarely happens at home like this... man, I'm really depressed!

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