The Bar Is Where It Should Be and Where It Should Always Be Period!

[WTF]

"Gentlemen anything less than 55 wins and a trip the ECF is a failed season considering the amount of salary being paid to our (cough, cough) Big Three they should be delivering on the GOODS and not the aspirations some young team rising out of the lottery."


Wise...that's a pretty high bar.  Gores and his people are the ones who created the salary structure that pays RJ $17 million, Drummond $25 million and Griffin $35 million.  I may or may not agree with the statement that anything less than 55 wins and a trip to the ECFs is a failed season for Gores and the Pistons organization.  

However, I think it's unrealistic to blame an incoming coach for achieving less than 55 wins.  Casey did not create the salary structure on this team; he has inherited this situation.

Please, let's lay the blame where it belongs....firmly on SVG,  and the people who gave him the power to ruin our salary structure and trade away our draft pick.

Yes he inherited now he needs to fix it and quickly regardless of who may or may not be the blame for it.  This team wasn't forced on him he saw it for what it was and I'm sure in his interview he told Gore he could fix it.  There lays his accountability where this team finishes.

Keeping in mind I'm not blaming him for salaries, and the loss of draft picks but he does get blame for the what happens in Win/Lose column so it's not unrealistic to place blame on him for that.   BTW he's already professing that the team is ready to contend now he's need to own up to that statement and deliver on the Goods.  He sold it to Gore for the job and now he's selling it to the fans through the media. 

It's his responsibility to get these players and this team to the Next Level,  I doubt Gore asked for the 40-45 wins many of you seem to be okay with.

[Murph]

"Gentlemen anything less than 55 wins and a trip the ECF is a failed season considering the amount of salary being paid to our (cough, cough) Big Three they should be delivering on the GOODS and not the aspirations some young team rising out of the lottery."


Wise...that's a pretty high bar.  Gores and his people are the ones who created the salary structure that pays RJ $17 million, Drummond $25 million and Griffin $35 million.  I may or may not agree with the statement that anything less than 55 wins and a trip to the ECFs is a failed season for Gores and the Pistons organization.  

However, I think it's unrealistic to blame an incoming coach for achieving less than 55 wins.  Casey did not create the salary structure on this team; he has inherited this situation.

Please, let's lay the blame where it belongs....firmly on SVG,  and the people who gave him the power to ruin our salary structure and trade away our draft pick.

[Murph]

Okay I won't say that politicians don't but really this **** make no freaking sense whatsoever.  Thousand and Thousand of parents of lost solders of the Korean War came up to me and asked Mr. President please bring my son home.   Sadly a lot of his supporters believe dumb **** like this because they can't put 2 nickels together to make a dime.  WTF

Wise, I have to agree with you on that one.  The math doesn't work.  The Korean War ended in 1953.  If an 18 year old kid were killed in action in in Korea 1953, he would have been born in 1935.  A parent of that child would have been born in 1915 or much earlier.

That means that the youngest possible parent of a Korean War vet is 93 years old, and most parents would undoubtedly be much much older, if they were still alive today.  It doesn't make any sense that thousands of 93 year old parents, or older, have approached Trump to thank him about bringing back the remains of their sons.  

Perhaps Trump meant the CHILDREN of Korean War vets?

Again this world has lost it's moral compass when this stuff is consistent done and accepted daily.  When does enough becomes enough?  Not just with this dumbass but in general period.   I might be alone in my thinking but this world is all fucked up SMH

Wise...what I hope and expect from my Presidents are policies that lead to peace and prosperity...3.5% GDP growth, robust job creation, record low unemployment, rising stock market, better trade deals, the destruction of ISIS, opening negotiations with N.Korea, etc.  

I am willing to forgive a lot of verbal gaffes for peace and prosperity.

[WTF]

Sparma, that was something I questioned a while back,

One question: Does anyone think Stefanski will pull a Dick Cheney, and have the person conducting the search wind up being the person that gets hired for the gig?

Looks like it's about to happen. Not that I object all that much, but for whatever reason, that's the way it smelled to me all along. 

It does offend my sense of fairness a bit, because the guy doing the search that hires himself has a bias that's off the charts!

As for your post: I think you've laid out a very reasonable measuring stick that I could support and is very reasonable.

Ellis: "Ed Stefanski could have senior adviser title removed and is named GM/POBO." (with Malik Rose and Brent Berry still as strong candidates for Assistant GM.

Well, well.  The process's been a bit dubious, but as with Casey I'm strongly inclined to judge performance by results.

Pinning things down more/ revising a bit from an earlier post (beginning next year and into the foreseeable future):

39 or fewer wins: Trouble, except that a disastrous injury situation buys you time.

40-45 wins, maybe a 1st round win or at least close: Maybe a light pat on the back: you helped the team improve beyond last year's record [but not beyond SVG with a healthy Reggie J]  so you deserve some credit.  But you haven't guided the team beyond where I expected it to be next year anyway.  I'm skeptical that this could count as genuine success for the new regime, certainly not beyond this year.

46-55 wins & playoff success beyond the 1st round: Good job, especially as we move  into the 50s.  You took the team beyond my present expectations.

Beyond 55 wins & getting to the conference championship, maybe even to the Finals in a flukish run: Excellent.  You've exceeded where I thought the team could go.

Regularly in or near the NBA Finals or a Championship: Incredible job, you're magicians.  

I understand that you could set the standards differently, but that's where I'm at.  In Stefanski's case, I know so little about him that judging (at once) by results seems like the only way to go.

If we're not going to name names or be direct, let's not destroy what we have, okay Wise? By the way, I always enjoy your posts, that's not to say I always agree with them but, they give me reason to pause and think.

Great thoughts DX!

Gentlemen anything less than 55 wins and a trip the ECF is a failed season considering the amount of salary being paid to our (cough, cough) Big Three they should be delivering on the GOODS and not the aspirations some young team rising out of the lottery.

You guys are far too soft on the expectations and measuring method.   You all do realize that annually 18, 25, 35 million is being kicked out to RJ, AD and BG and that these aren't kids.   This song has been sung the past 2 seasons so why sing it for a third

[Oracle]

Sparma, that was something I questioned a while back,

One question: Does anyone think Stefanski will pull a Dick Cheney, and have the person conducting the search wind up being the person that gets hired for the gig?

Looks like it's about to happen. Not that I object all that much, but for whatever reason, that's the way it smelled to me all along. 

It does offend my sense of fairness a bit, because the guy doing the search that hires himself has a bias that's off the charts!

As for your post: I think you've laid out a very reasonable measuring stick that I could support and is very reasonable.

Ellis: "Ed Stefanski could have senior adviser title removed and is named GM/POBO." (with Malik Rose and Brent Berry still as strong candidates for Assistant GM.

Well, well.  The process's been a bit dubious, but as with Casey I'm strongly inclined to judge performance by results.

Pinning things down more/ revising a bit from an earlier post (beginning next year and into the foreseeable future):

39 or fewer wins: Trouble, except that a disastrous injury situation buys you time.

40-45 wins, maybe a 1st round win or at least close: Maybe a light pat on the back: you helped the team improve beyond last year's record [but not beyond SVG with a healthy Reggie J]  so you deserve some credit.  But you haven't guided the team beyond where I expected it to be next year anyway.  I'm skeptical that this could count as genuine success for the new regime, certainly not beyond this year.

46-55 wins & playoff success beyond the 1st round: Good job, especially as we move  into the 50s.  You took the team beyond my present expectations.

Beyond 55 wins & getting to the conference championship, maybe even to the Finals in a flukish run: Excellent.  You've exceeded where I thought the team could go.

Regularly in or near the NBA Finals or a Championship: Incredible job, you're magicians.  

I understand that you could set the standards differently, but that's where I'm at.  In Stefanski's case, I know so little about him that judging (at once) by results seems like the only way to go.

If we're not going to name names or be direct, let's not destroy what we have, okay Wise? By the way, I always enjoy your posts, that's not to say I always agree with them but, they give me reason to pause and think.

Great thoughts DX!

[Sparma]

Ellis: "Ed Stefanski could have senior adviser title removed and is named GM/POBO." (with Malik Rose and Brent Berry still as strong candidates for Assistant GM.

Well, well. The process's been a bit dubious, but as with Casey I'm strongly inclined to judge performance by results.

Pinning things down more/ revising a bit from an earlier post (beginning next year and into the foreseeable future):

39 or fewer wins: Trouble, except that a disastrous injury situation buys you time.

40-45 wins, maybe a 1st round win or at least close: Maybe a light pat on the back: you helped the team improve beyond last year's record [but not beyond SVG with a healthy Reggie J] so you deserve some credit. But you haven't guided the team beyond where I expected it to be next year anyway. I'm skeptical that this could count as genuine success for the new regime, certainly not beyond this year.

46-55 wins & playoff success beyond the 1st round: Good job, especially as we move into the 50s. You took the team beyond my present expectations.

Beyond 55 wins & getting to the conference championship, maybe even to the Finals in a flukish run: Excellent. You've exceeded where I thought the team could go.

Regularly in or near the NBA Finals or a Championship: Incredible job, you're magicians.

I understand that you could set the standards differently, but that's where I'm at. In Stefanski's case, I know so little about him that judging (at once) by results seems like the only way to go.

[deusXango]

Okay I won't say that politicians don't but really this **** make no freaking sense whatsoever.  Thousand and Thousand of parents of lost solders of the Korean War came up to me and asked Mr. President please bring my son home.   Sadly a lot of his supporters believe dumb **** like this because they can't put 2 nickels together to make a dime.  WTF

Wise, I have to agree with you on that one.  The math doesn't work.  The Korean War ended in 1953.  If an 18 year old kid were killed in action in in Korea 1953, he would have been born in 1935.  A parent of that child would have been born in 1915 or much earlier.

That means that the youngest possible parent of a Korean War vet is 93 years old, and most parents would undoubtedly be much much older, if they were still alive today.  It doesn't make any sense that thousands of 93 year old parents, or older, have approached Trump to thank him about bringing back the remains of their sons.  

Perhaps Trump meant the CHILDREN of Korean War vets?

Again this world has lost it's moral compass when this stuff is consistent done and accepted daily.  When does enough becomes enough?  Not just with this dumbass but in general period.   I might be alone in my thinking but this world is all fucked up SMH

HERE, HERE!!!

[WTF]

Okay I won't say that politicians don't but really this **** make no freaking sense whatsoever.  Thousand and Thousand of parents of lost solders of the Korean War came up to me and asked Mr. President please bring my son home.   Sadly a lot of his supporters believe dumb **** like this because they can't put 2 nickels together to make a dime.  WTF

Wise, I have to agree with you on that one.  The math doesn't work.  The Korean War ended in 1953.  If an 18 year old kid were killed in action in in Korea 1953, he would have been born in 1935.  A parent of that child would have been born in 1915 or much earlier.

That means that the youngest possible parent of a Korean War vet is 93 years old, and most parents would undoubtedly be much much older, if they were still alive today.  It doesn't make any sense that thousands of 93 year old parents, or older, have approached Trump to thank him about bringing back the remains of their sons.  

Perhaps Trump meant the CHILDREN of Korean War vets?

Again this world has lost it's moral compass when this stuff is consistent done and accepted daily.  When does enough becomes enough?  Not just with this dumbass but in general period.   I might be alone in my thinking but this world is all fucked up SMH

[Murph]

Okay I won't say that politicians don't but really this **** make no freaking sense whatsoever.  Thousand and Thousand of parents of lost solders of the Korean War came up to me and asked Mr. President please bring my son home.   Sadly a lot of his supporters believe dumb **** like this because they can't put 2 nickels together to make a dime.  WTF

Wise, I have to agree with you on that one.  The math doesn't work.  The Korean War ended in 1953.  If an 18 year old kid were killed in action in in Korea 1953, he would have been born in 1935.  A parent of that child would have been born in 1915 or much earlier.

That means that the youngest possible parent of a Korean War vet is 93 years old, and most parents would undoubtedly be much much older, if they were still alive today.  It doesn't make any sense that thousands of 93 year old parents, or older, have approached Trump to thank him about bringing back the remains of their sons.  

Perhaps Trump meant the CHILDREN of Korean War vets?

[deusXango]

Here's a thought about how to use #42...use it as an enticement for someone to take on Leuer and in finding that someone, resign Tolliver to a reasonable contract. Anyone think that's doable?

[Sparma]

Maybe we'll need to turn to 40 y.o. bulked up Mike Bibby instead.

Dang Sparma; it soooooo sucks that we gave away our lottery pick.  Don't we need a point guard    

Good stuff!  I hate to think of the many hours of practice that got him to that level of proficiency.

The Point Guard who got away...How could we let all this talent languish on the bench?!  

I hope that you don't intend a comprehensive or permanent "Bye", BallinD.  You've been a fantastic contributor!

Bruh Bye.  No hard feelings.  You "Do You."  Go argue with yourself and parse your little snippets.  Twist my words and twist in the wind.  

Show your maturity with lame personal insults.  Not a good look for a discussion forum.  You just can't stop; can you.  This aint Jr. High dawg. More words count less.

[WTF]

Okay I won't say that politicians don't but really this **** make no freaking sense whatsoever.  Thousand and Thousand of parents of lost solders of the Korean War came up to me and asked Mr. President please bring my son home.   Sadly a lot of his supporters believe dumb **** like this because they can't put 2 nickels together to make a dime.  WTF

[WTF]

You know I'm not confrontational 

[deusXango]

And never have I seen the level of animosity toward a new coach than I have seen toward Casey, and Casey is more accomplished and more experienced than any coach on that list, with the possible exception of SVG.  

Hold on there Murph I supported only 2 of those coaches (Franks and Cheeks) and I can't recall a single soul that supported Curry.   I think you're reaching quite a bit here on they above statement.  

Also I have said numerous times since the SVG firing and perhaps before that I would like to see Cheeks get a second shot at this team.  IMO both Cheeks and Franks were excellent coaches and they're failures are squarely the results of Joe's interference.   Cheeks was a scapegoat coach for a scapegoated GM and President.  Neither firing were result of bad coach only bad general managing.

IMO Cheeks is still a better choice than Casey and so were a bunch of others not named.  How in the hell is he more accomplished than Franks who been to 2 NBA Finals and I could debate he's not better or that much better than Cheeks.

Okay I get it Murph your sold on the hiring of Casey and that's okay but don't start writing your version of how we did or didn't treat other coaches while you get in defense mode of this hiring.  Below is my position on this hiring and I'm sticking to it.

1. I don't think he's the right coach for this team there were others out there that were clearly better, just those names weren't mentioned don't mean if approached it wouldn't have happen.

2. No matter how much it gets spun as a great hiring I'm simply not buying it the man was fired, and so were many other coaches so it come back to fit and comfortability which I don't see.

3. I'll get behind this MF when this team wins better than 50 games so until that happens I have no love for this coach.  I'm not playing the wait and see game with this coach or this team really.  It's time to deliver, it's been time and immediately delivery of the good are required.  

BTW Murph that above comment is the stuff you know who likes to pull I can't believe you went that route.

That has a rather bitter and confrontational tone to it, albeit "shyly" put, but this is not necessary to make contrary points. If we're not going to name names or be direct, let's not destroy what we have, okay Wise? By the way, I always enjoy your posts, that's not to say I always agree with them but, they give me reason to pause and think.

[deusXango]

"Both Cheeks and Franks were excellent coaches."
Did their records indicate excellence? Talking about here in a leadership capacity!
Wise...you've got to be kidding.  Franks was horrible.  The only good years he had were his first few years in New Jersey, when Jason Kidd was point guard, and basically ran the team.  It was all down hill from there.

And Mo Cheeks use to literally fall asleep on the bench...fall asleep.  
His demonstrated hatred for Josh Smith, almost from day one, rubbed me the wrong way. Was he sleeping or "nodding?"

And I'm not sold on the hiring of Casey either.  As I have said ad nauseum, I would have preferred Zeke, Laimbeer and Kidd.  

But I'm not going to rip Casey before he's coached a single game.  He has a good track record and he won COY.   And he hasn't ruined any franchise to date, the way Van Gundy ruined the Magic (and maybe the Pistons).
Time being an irreplaceable element, he's ruined the Pistons for the foreseeable future and wasted 4 years, IMHO!

I'm not embellishing Murph's post as the soundness of it stands wonderfully on it's own but, to preface my question that's to follow.

[Oracle]

I'm binge watching Westworld, and I never thought I would like it, I wound up LOVING it for several reasons.

1. Plenty of nudity, which I always love, but,
2. GREAT acting
3. Fantastic story line

What I can't tell is if I love it so much because it agrees with my underlying belief that there is no such thing as artificial intelligence, there is only intelligence, or it's just plain good. Once machines AI becomes powerful enough, and we're getting closer, you can't tell the difference.

The Hosts as they call them are no longer simple mechanical beings, now they organic like us, but as time moves on, well, there in lies the tale. I recommend it if anyone is interested... Sadly no Game of Thrones this year 


Veering off into the legal system(for a joke but making no political judgments), seeing Paul Manafort going to jail, legally allows me to post this always funny video 

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