Ballin You Won't Win... No Point Trying

[WTF]

Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.

BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Ballin this just shows how much they hate people of color what funny is they're cheap asses weren't buying Jordan's and Air Max any way but instead buy out dated knock off version of Nikes at Marshalls or some cheap shoe outlet.  

One Mexican kills a young lady and they're ready to jump on all Mexicans 2 weeks later they're quiet as a mouse when one of their own shoot up a gaming event and kill a black person.  Screw these racist clowns.

When they think about America they think about all the racist vile activities they gave them a false sense of security.  Of course its okay priest touch boys because this is okay when you don't support morality.   Because they don't support morality they'll never get what Kap and Nike are doing it will never penetrate their racist thoughts.  

Maybe if they understood what morality means they could understand what that new ad is saying, SACRIFICE EVERYTHING perhaps Nike don't care if they're racist ass wear their product and logo on their racist feet so they don't mind the decline in sells.  

I doubt very seriously if they're dumb asses and protest had any effect on the Nikes sells anyway.   They best be careful that Nike don't create its own league NBA and NFL and take all of their black athletes.

Just know in some people minds if it ain't white it ain't right.  

[WTF]

Maybe someone will come out with a more racist footwear to fit the needs of those hate Nike now  .  Maybe they'll call them the KKK's 2000 no doubt it'll be a cheap knock off of a pair of Jordans 

[BallinD]

Wow these good ole Americans are frothing mad in a fluster over Nike, a freaking shoe company. They committed the "sin" of sponsoring a black athlete who successfully drew attention to police brutality and racial injustice (that anybody with an open eye and open mind can see clearly is a regular occurrence in this "land of the free and home of the brave."

Yet...yet these same good ole Americans mumble quietly into their Bud Lights or turn their heads when the Catholic Church priests rape their children. "Silence. Prayer," the Pope says, and duitifuly, the ever-dumbfounded (not racist, oh no) comply. No uproar, no Twitter or any other kind of frenzy about that. But they're all so mad because a Black football player had the nerve to kneel after consulting Nate Solder, a Green Beret, on how to respectfully protest police brutality vs people of color.

BTW Addidas and Puma stocks were down 2% the same day Nike's stock dropped. Trump's trade war could be partly to blame, financial analysts said.

Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  How Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?     Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.

[Murph]

Don...I don't know about all of that.  Some of that sounds pretty far fetched.

But what I do know is that Nike as a corporation has been one of the worst abusers of human rights over the last 30 years.  They are notorious for operating sweatshops throughout China, Thailand, Vietnam and S.Korea and other Asian countries.  Their exploitation of their workers, both financially and sexually, has been well documented.

So why the sudden change of heart?  Has Nike all of a sudden become a corporate social justice warrior?     Highly doubtful.  More than likely, sponsoring Kaepernick was a calculated, cynical attempt by Nike to help them sell more shoes. With Nike, it's always about the almighty dollar.  

I guess anything is possible, but IMO this is a major advertising blunder.  Rather than selling more shoes, I'm guessing this will drive Nike's shoe sales down.  

The stock market selloff in Nike shares since the announcement seems to confirm that this was a miscalculation.

[cool breeze]

Yeah...way to go Nike.  I see their stock was down $2.60 and the company lost $3.75 billion in market cap today on the Kap news.  

What a bunch of morons to thrown themselves into this fiasco.  Talk about an unforced error.

Yep I will never buy a Nike product for the rest of my life. Never liked their running shoes or that logo anyway.

Just a thought but maybe everyone who originated from Northern Europe should knell when they attend a soccer game in Italy during their National Anthem. Nike could recognize an opportunity and market a incompetent pro soccer player who has been cut from several teams because he wasn't as good as his competition. The Roman conquerors sure turned a lot of people of all color into slaves and most of them lasted less than a month in the Roman mines. Those Italians need to be punished from past infractions just as all people not of color need punishment today. Forget the soldiers who died for their country in past wars.

But wait it shows in the the records that people of color owned, rented and sold slaves in America during the days when Slavery was legal in America. And it was the African tribes who were involved in human trafficking that brought people to the slave ships. And yes there were Blacks who worked on those ships too. But Nike is on the right side of things for sure.

It looks like everyone is a bit guilty and still holds something racist in their subconscious including the Italians who once conquered the world. Now I am concerned about what some of us who are products of a Black Mother and a White Father or the other way around. Should I stand on my head for the National anthem to protest both the old slavery days in the USA and slavery created by the Roman Empire? Or perhaps some of us beer drinkers should give the middle finger during the National anthem to protest Prohibition which prevented my relatives from purchasing our alcohol legally. Why did they make my relatives sneak around like criminals to get their beer. Damn it all! Let's create more hate groups so the hate can intensify and then a new progressive socialist totalitarian government can be formed out of the ashes. Meanwhile for the short term the GDP growth keeps on rising and more people are employed and making more money. Isn't that terrible? Maybe the government needs to raise the minimum wage so less people can be employed or keep Obama care so less people can have full employment. But most of all Nike will make sure the hate continues so the police who protect and serve can be the villains as Nike has Mr. K. Model their new sock brand showing Cops as Pigs. What a crazy world of gullible people. It never changes.

[Murph]

Yeah...way to go Nike.  I see their stock was down $2.60 and the company lost $3.75 billion in market cap today on the Kap news.  

What a bunch of morons to thrown themselves into this fiasco.  Talk about an unforced error.

[Oracle]

@Sparma/@Don: That was a tough loss, not because it was so close in score, but I thought that Michigan began to find themselves in the 4th. That last drive unfortunately ended when the QB lost the ball, but he certainly wasn't getting enough protection.

The good news is that they looked better than the Lions have so far. I sure hope preseason isn't an indication of how the Lions will be playing this year.

@Wise: Yup Nike made a statement, and Twitter is going crazy! One side loves it, the other hates it 

[WTF]

Way to go NIKE!!!!!!

[cool breeze]

Looking great in a short stretch in the 4th.

I wonder if a really tall QB (M rather than P) can compensate for being under continual pressure due to the OL with height giving a quicker overview and a bit more time to release.

In any case it looks like we're in for an upgrade in QB play (likely with P and a bit of M) this year and moving forward.

Oh for the days of the dominant OL!  And I going back to the 70s.

I agree Sparma. Michigan's offensive line and receivers sure didn't help the quarterback. Upset fans quickly forget the dropped passes or failure to run the pass routes correctly. The quarterback position is greatly improved from last season. ND seemed to dominate the line of scrimmage on defense as well especially in the first half. Still the Wolverines stayed in the game late into the 4th quarter playing away from home in the first game of the season against what looks to be a very talented team. I look for Michigan to rebound in a big way. Dumb penalties happen on opening night especially with inexperienced linemen.

Too much attention by media involving qualifying for the bogus National Championship game where no real playoff exists anyway makes losing a non conference game bigger than it should be in this day and age. Winning conference championships in football, basketball or any college sport should be the number one goal. I am sure those Michigan football players know what really counts. I hope either Michigan or MSU can win the Big Ten Championship but it might take a miracle.

[Sparma]

Looking great in a short stretch in the 4th.

I wonder if a really tall QB (M rather than P) can compensate for being under continual pressure due to the OL with height giving a quicker overview and a bit more time to release.

In any case it looks like we're in for an upgrade in QB play (likely with P and a bit of M) this year and moving forward.

Oh for the days of the dominant OL!  And I going back to the 70s.

[Sparma]

Looks to me like Shea Patterson could be outstanding, but he'd need a ton more help from a crummy looking OL to do so.

[cool breeze]

@Sparma, @Don: Houston is a team that doesn't need Knight to take the kinds of risks that lead to injury.

He can shoot the 3 ball very well, and for that team, his basic assignment is to bring the ball, distribute to others and be available to knock down 3's. All while working to nail down that 6th man of the year award 

Drummond was always a project! We all actually did him a disservice by assuming he was more ready than he really was.

I don't believe in giving up on big me too early, and Drummond is still very young. I get it, he's not where we want him to be, but he's showing a lot of progress and putting up impressive numbers.

IMO, he has 2 more seasons to state his case, but I think he's going to make a good enough statement this coming season, which is why I'm secretly very excited about this coming year.

Without any improvement, just health, this team, IMO, is a playoff team... HOWEVER, if
1. Drummond improves
2. Chemistry between Blake & Drummond grows
3. Reggie gets a clue

Then this team could possibly get to the 2nd round... but if
1. Stanley improves offensively
2. Kennard takes the next step
3. GR3 contributes
4. Ellenson/Leuer combine to deliver decent backup play

This team is a threat in the east. Not saying they land in the ECF, but they would be a threat to get there and be competitive.

Time will tell.

Well said Oracle and agree with all of your thoughts and especially your words about AD. I most likely have been the hardest of all on AD because I was hoping for much more development of his defensive ability. Both AD and Greg Monroe were drafted in the same area in their individual draft years. Greg came to the NBA with good low post skills and was an effective offensive player from the get go. However, Monroe never stopped being a liability on defense and didn't seem to care much about improving. I can't lump AD in that category. AD has better all around athletic ability arriving his rookie season as a unsound offensive and defensive player but still had the ability to rebound the basketball and win playing time. AD needs to change how he sees himself as a Piston basketball player and the sky is the limit.

I am hard on Andre because I see something in him that he doesn't see. AD could become a great defensive player if he is willing to get into superior physical condition that it takes to accomplish that feat. He needs to drop 20 pounds at minimum and most of all love the feeling of being the dominate center in the NBA relating to protecting the paint. He could change everything relating to team chemistry if he could feel the joy of being a great help defender like Ben Wallace etc. His teammates would love and respect him much more. Maybe Casey can stimulate AD to provide what his teams most from him. As you said, AD is still mentally very young relating to playing basketball and is young enough age wise to turn his game around where he can be a feared NBA basketball player. I am surprised that AD's agent has not prodded AD in that direction instead of improving his 3 point shooting. Last season AD showed he can improve his free throw shooting. Now Casey has to get AD to become a monster defender or this team will not go far.

Very touching speech by our all time Piston hero Isiah Thomas at Aretha's funeral. I loved the part about how he would look for Aretha and his Mom who sat together at the games when he was on the Palace hardwood looking up in the stands wearing his Piston uniform. On draft day when Detroit picked Zeke, I stayed up most of that night celebrating and feeling good times was just around the corner and that the Pistons would someday become champions. Thousands of Piston fans felt the same way. We fans sure were lucky to watch it all happen. Zeke wins the NCAA championship and is MVP and then he is suddenly on our team. I have never seen any player at any level play with as much heart as Zeke.

[Oracle]

@Sparma, @Don: Houston is a team that doesn't need Knight to take the kinds of risks that lead to injury.

He can shoot the 3 ball very well, and for that team, his basic assignment is to bring the ball up, distribute to others and be available to knock down 3's. All while working to nail down that 6th man of the year award 

Drummond was always a project! We all actually did him a disservice by assuming he was more ready than he really was.

I don't believe in giving up on big men too early, and Drummond is still very young. I get it, he's not where we want him to be, but he's showing a lot of progress and putting up impressive numbers.

IMO, he has 2 more seasons to state his case, but I think he's going to make a good enough statement this coming season, which is why I'm secretly very excited about this coming year.

Without any improvement, just health, this team, IMO, is a playoff team... HOWEVER, if
1. Drummond improves
2. Chemistry between Blake & Drummond grows
3. Reggie gets a clue

Then this team could possibly get to the 2nd round... but if
1. Stanley improves offensively
2. Kennard takes the next step
3. GR3 contributes
4. Ellenson/Leuer combine to deliver decent backup play

This team is a threat in the east. Not saying they land in the ECF, but they would be a threat to get there and be competitive.

Time will tell.

[Sparma]

Health permitting, he should be able to re-set his career in Houston.  Playing behind a couple of superstars will prevent him from placing himself at the center of the team's world (saving him from himself), but he'll still get every opportunity to contribute offensively as well as with scrambling D on distance shooters.  A perfect spot for him.  Hope it works out for him.

Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix

[cool breeze]

Are we interested in front court depth: Magic To Make Nikola Vucevic Available?

Would they be interested in Reggie again and what do they have that we would want: Pelicans Continue To Seek Point Guard Depth

That's an interesting trade proposal...Reggie for Vucevic and filler.  If the Magic wants to dump Vucevic so badly, they just might go for that.


That trade would make us weaker in the short run, but it would open up a host of possibilities.  

Vucevic's contract expires at the end of this year, so that would give us significant cap relief that we could use to pursue a more team oriented PG.

It would also make Drummond expendable.  For those who want to trade Drummond at the peak of his value, acquiring Vucevic, who is an accomplished center himself, would make that possible.  

Of course, if we traded Drumond, we'd have to re-sign Vucevic at the end of the season, or give him a contract extension.

Don is always wanting to dump Reggie.  And Sparma, Don and WTF are always wanting to trade Drummond for someone like Wall.  Well, this trade would make all that possible.

The question is:  Would a combination of Wall (or someone like him) and Vucevic be better than Reggie and Drummond?.  I think a lot of the posters on this forum would make that exchange.  

Personally, I might dump Reggie for the cap space that Vucevic's expiring contract would give us, and then try to sign a better PG in the off season.  But I would not trade Drummond.

Very interesting stuff Sparma and Murph. Thanks! Really enjoyed both posts and got excited reading them.

I would be completely shocked if Tom Gores ever agrees to a trade involving Andre Drummond. The reality is that AD's sidekick is Reggie Jackson. Tom Gores has tried harder than any owner that I have ever heard of to keep what he calls his franchise player happy. Mr. Gores consults with AD before he makes any trade or perhaps draft pick or so the Detroit beat writers have disclosed in past articles. And even if the owners defied AD relating to trading Reggie, I can't believe any team would be interested in his contract knowing the amount of his contract. My gut feeling is that the Pistons have perhaps received some interest in Reggie after his first season with the Pistons but no calls in the past two years. This season is as important for the future career of RJ as it is for the owners who at this time have no trading asset relating to Mr. Jackson. To make a trade happen now, I think the Pistons would have to include AD as a trade piece. Interesting to contemplate the possibilities of both leaving at the same time if things are not shaping up well before the trade deadline.

Some of us can dream but most likely the owners are very content with what they have regardless of the result at the end of this season. My other hope is that 1 to 3 of the supporting players have shocking success. That would be fantastic even if the team fails to make the playoffs. But if the current team leaders fail to create great team chemistry and fade at mid season, can the owners place the blame on the coaching staff or will they blame the fans for not showing up in higher volume for the home games? I liked Vucevic as a sure thing when he entered the draft. Loved the way he played in college and was surprised that he didn't get a lot of attention. Vucevic playing with Griffin could make both very effective players and winners. Adding Wall to the roster would made Michigan basketball fans go crazy with excitement. You have both made my day just thinking about the possibilities.

Now on to the start of college football. Go Blue! Go Chips! Go Spartans!

[cool breeze]

Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix

Knight's first knee injury was serious and difficult to overcome for anyone. But he is still young and determined so I like his chances. If only the Pistons had established stars who have a history of winning and then could take a gamble on players like Brandon Knight. He should thrive playing with the current team leaders at Houston. I will pull for both Knight and Paul to have injury free seasons. Both are outstanding men off the court and have always tried to play the game the right way. The Western Conference regular season games are going to be exciting.

It is a shame that maybe two of the teams that made the playoffs in the Western Conference last season could not play in the Eastern conference this year. I would love it if the current New Orleans team could be switched to the Eastern Conference now that Labron has jumped ship from Cleveland. Maybe throw Utah in as well just to make the games in the Eastern Conference more exciting. Boston should dominate but if that team gets hit with crippling injuries the NBA finals might be a dud.

[Oracle]

Knight, not even the 2nd bill in this trade, but could really have a great opportunity if he's finally healthy to backup Chris Paul.

Considering Paul's health issues and the fact that they probably don't want to over use him during the regular season, Knight could get a lot of starts and very significant minutes. Good luck BK7.

Rockets finally find taker for Ryan Anderson, trade him, De’Anthony Melton to Phoenix

[Sparma]

Murph writes: "That's an interesting trade proposal...Reggie for Vucevic and filler. If the Magic wants to dump Vucevic so badly, they just might go for that.


That trade would make us weaker in the short run, but it would open up a host of possibilities.

Vucevic's contract expires at the end of this year, so that would give us significant cap relief that we could use to pursue a more team oriented PG.

It would also make Drummond expendable. For those who want to trade Drummond at the peak of his value, acquiring Vucevic, who is an accomplished center himself, would make that possible.

Of course, if we traded Drumond, we'd have to re-sign Vucevic at the end of the season, or give him a contract extension.

Don is always wanting to dump Reggie. And Sparma, Don and WTF are always wanting to trade Drummond for someone like Wall. Well, this trade would make all that possible."

I probably would go for that set of trades, which is similar to a proposal I made earlier in the summer.

My two main reservations about Drummond are a) as I observe him I don't think he really figured out positional D, even though he puts up good defensive stats, and b) I think his critics have a point in wondering just how much he helps his team win.

I do believe he could be a championship caliber center in the right situation. Maybe that would be playing alongside LeBron in a very clearly defined, and limited, role or maybe it would playing in San Antonio for Pops, who would make good use of him. Or of course on the Warriors as an upgraded McGee.

A thought experiment occurred to me concerning AD, Wallace, and Laimbeer. What difference would we expect if Wallace or Laimbeer replaced Drummond on this year's team? In Laimbeer's case I think he'd need a serious physical upgrade to hang in today's NBA, clearly being from a far earlier time. Still, if we put him in peak physical shape, what would we expect on the 2018 Pistons?

Wallace would be a better supplement to Griffin, I think. AD aspires to being a passing center (and I think he's pretty good in that role) and he wants offensive opportunities in close (he great on dunks and put backs, but beyond that questionable in his contribution). It quickly get crowded inside with him and Blake. Ben would bring clearly defined roles. I'd expect an upgrade on these Pistons, even though I wouldn't necessarily expect that elsewhere (eg the Warriors would be better off with AD than Wallace).

An optimally fit Laimbeer would be intriguing in today's NBA (as I remember he'd also need to significantly upgrade his outside shooting to count as the outside weapon he was back in the day.) And he couldn't get away with his shenanigans. Still, I'd expect him to be better offensively than AD. Would he, like AD, have troubles supplementing Blake. I think so. And where would his Mahorn be, doing dirty work alongside him, making them into a formidable duo? (Maybe Draymond Green is an updated, advanced model, Mahorn?) It's hard for me to imagine what a buff Laimbeer would do on today's Pistons, partly because he'd need to play differently and shoot better (although he's clearly ahead of AD there). I'm not able to say with conviction that there'd be a significant upgrade (even a more fit Bill couldn't clean the offensive boards like AD), but maybe I'm wrong. I suppose it would be terribly crabby to wonder how much better he would be than (a healthy) Leuer. That thought likely reflects my lack of imagination.

[Murph]

Are we interested in front court depth: Magic To Make Nikola Vucevic Available?

Would they be interested in Reggie again and what do they have that we would want: Pelicans Continue To Seek Point Guard Depth

That's an interesting trade proposal...Reggie for Vucevic and filler.  If the Magic wants to dump Vucevic so badly, they just might go for that.


That trade would make us weaker in the short run, but it would open up a host of possibilities.  

Vucevic's contract expires at the end of this year, so that would give us significant cap relief that we could use to pursue a more team oriented PG.

It would also make Drummond expendable.  For those who want to trade Drummond at the peak of his value, acquiring Vucevic, who is an accomplished center himself, would make that possible.  

Of course, if we traded Drumond, we'd have to re-sign Vucevic at the end of the season, or give him a contract extension.

Don is always wanting to dump Reggie.  And Sparma, Don and WTF are always wanting to trade Drummond for someone like Wall.  Well, this trade would make all that possible.

The question is:  Would a combination of Wall (or someone like him) and Vucevic be better than Reggie and Drummond?.  I think a lot of the posters on this forum would make that exchange.  

Personally, I might dump Reggie for the cap space that Vucevic's expiring contract would give us, and then try to sign a better PG in the off season.  But I would not trade Drummond.

[Oracle]

Are we interested in front court depth: Magic To Make Nikola Vucevic Available?

Would they be interested in Reggie again and what do they have that we would want: Pelicans Continue To Seek Point Guard Depth

[cool breeze]

Nice to see Jerebko signing with the Warriors.  Hopefully he'll win an NBA Title with them, and play some decent minutes.  

I always liked Jerebko's hustle, especially when he first came in the League.  His rookie year was his best year...before he blew out his Achilles tendon.  He registered career highs in points, rebounds, minutes and FG% his rookie year.  Since then he's been a role player.  

The Pistons would have been a much better team if the Piston's inept management at the time had realized his value. Jonas is a team orientated player, not a stat orientated player. He does a lot of things well and always cared about giving an honest effort on defense. The Pistons have played musical chairs with their supporting cast especially at power forward. The problem has never been the guys who have come off the bench for the Pistons.The problem relating to losing so many games and going nowhere rests with the starters. Who knows maybe this coming season will be different and the guys coming in on the 2nd unit will not be able to give the same spark so the team can recover from big deficits in the fist and third quarters of games. Over the last two seasons the bench players showed that they were more prepared to play and executed better than the starters in most games.

I read Oracle's post on AD and your response. Maybe it is a good thing that you both believe AD has high value. I am still unimpressed with those stats because so many of AD's rebounds came on the offensive end where he might get two or three tips in one possession. I admire the effort but want to see him do that late in games and wish AD could improve on the defensive end and become a real obstacle for drivers and big men who are crashing the offensive glass. Can AD ever become a "help defender"?? He doesn't see himself as that kind of player or get satisfaction other do who give their teammates help. Players like Rodman have a special gift of "anticipation" and "concentration" that AD lacks. Andre wants to be known as a high offensive scorer and might be content to be on losing teams as long as he is in the Piston history book as a stat champion. How can the Pistons pull out close games in the 4th quarter if AD doesn't become a smarter defensive player? I just don't believe the Pistons can win unless he can make the change or Blake Griffin can make winning defensive plays for the "team".

The bulk of NBA teams are stat driven now and and are selling fans "stats" to sell tickets. Big specific stats can mean a player who is a key guy on a losing team who is not a complete basketball player can sucker an owner into agreeing to a massive new contract for that player. And teams keep on losing like the Pistons keep on losing. They don't have the super star players who also play the right way on both ends of the floor. Players who are willing do anything to win including filling a role needed by their team now all want to play on the same team because they hate playing with losers. The great players all know how our players approach playing the game of basketball and do not want to move to Detroit. Even average players like Marcus Morris had a mental breakdown playing with our superstars. This owner needs to realize that the draft is the only way change will ever happen.

So I respectfully disagree with both of you on the subject of Andre Drummond. AD needs to be traded when his value is highest because he is not a player who will fill a role that his team needs the most. AD has declared that this coming season he is going to unleash his 3 point shot. Never in any past summer has AD ever stated that he needs to become an outstanding paint and rim protector and try to win the most valuable defensive player award. IF AD had said that even once, I would be in his camp and call him a true blue Piston player. But it is clear AD is happy to just go though the motions on defense and wants to save his energy to get better offensive stats for himself. Do you believe that if AD Shoots 3 point shots or long 2s that will ado anything positive for his team? AD said that to tell his new coach where his mind is at. AD thinks he needs to show his offensive skills to support a max contract. Is winning important to AD over the next two seasons? Where do you think he wants to move? That will be the talk and everyone will forget about how many seasons the Pistons came up short when he was the key player on his team.

[cool breeze]

I hear you, but I don't want to lump Murph in with Don, two very different people.

I also agree with Murph that we need to get back to basketball, nobody is going to complain too hard about the occasional rant post, but we have been on this for quite some time.

Just my opinion.

Yes something is going on Oracle and that would be "objective" thinking as a result of studying the philosophy of Objectivism. You seem to be able to analysis things much of the time "objectively" with sports but when your religion comes into play (progressive dogma) you have to agree with WTF that Trump is a "racist"to be a member of the group that determines "good". The facts show that the word "racist" of course was first brought out on social media by the Russian's who posted in on social media and have been identified by by Mueller in an effort to destroy Trumps chances of defeating Hillary. People should not let it go when groups or individuals stoop to using the race card. One good reason why is that Brown Shirts did to all Jews in Germany years ago to get the population to agree that they should be eliminated. How can anyone charged as being a "racist" defend themselves especially when is is now the alleged truth that every white person is racist but they might not know it because it is in their sub conscious according to the current dogma coming from the Progressive leadership. Moral superiority has always been a tool used by totalitarian militants who try to benefit politically by name calling to stir up the emotions to the point of "mass hysteria when large segments of the population stop thinking for themselves. It is dangerous and many of use are afraid of what is coming if Progressives take control of this country. Many great liberal democrats are worried. But you are cocky and confident in your beliefs it seems so good luck. Meanwhile the news broke yesterday that China had hacked 30,000 or more of Hillary Clinton's e'mails from her illegal personal server when she was Sec. of State. I am sure that doesn't bother you either or WTF. But it does matter to the families who had undercover agents in foreign countries who's names might have been in those classified e-mails. Maybe you didn't know it is illegal to use a unprotected private server for classified materials. She signed an agreement like I did when I was in the military but somehow can't recall signing it. Ah shoot let's give her a pass. That is what the FBI and Justice Department did. They were thinking all those dumb voters out there won't even know about the rules of handling classified materials that many have died to protect. No wonder people are not standing for the National Anthem anymore. People originally stood in honor of those who died defending our country and not to remember past transgressions or sins. You kneel to pray to God for forgiveness and that should be done in church or your home not in a football stadium. But go with the flow. Get in tight with the current most popular group and you will be popular.

I am speaking in general terms Oracle and not specifically you. But you scare me because you represent a lot of people who just don't know that they don't know. That is why you need to respond with degrading comments which to me are juvenile like some of your basketball posts when you disagree with other posters. I have a happy life because I have made it that way partly because I have tried to think objectively where everyone and everything should be judged on a individual basis. That way "racism" cannot exit in your thoughts or actions. WTF perhaps you should not judge a book by it's cover too. You have no idea how Trump thinks or what he is thinking. I don't know that either. His kids all really love him and say he has been a great Dad. His old school friends say he was a good teammate and trustworthy friend too. Who should we believe the news anchors on CNN and MSMBC who have been paid to bash Trump every day since the election or the documentary "Objectified" that was done on Trump that showed his personal life before he ran for President. One thing is true, Trump is not "presidential". The establishment want to get him really bad. It is unlikely he will survive. Maybe it would have helped if he had been a career politician. Yes those are the people you can trust who are for sure not "racist". They love you.

Lions pulled out a win in their last pre season game but the starters for both offense and defense looked like they might be the worst team in the NFL right now. Can they get it together before mid season? It might take some time to get used to the new system but their opponent didn't play 3 of their starting linemen in that game and the Lions still couldn't move the ball or defend. Great punt return! This is only pre season so maybe the wins will come when it counts.

[Murph]

Nice to see Jerebko signing with the Warriors. Hopefully he'll win an NBA Title with them, and play some decent minutes.

I always liked Jerebko's hustle, especially when he first came in the League. His rookie year was his best year...before he blew out his Achilles tendon. He registered career highs in points, rebounds, minutes and FG% his rookie year. Since then he's been a role player.

[Murph]

Oracle, that's an impressive article on Drummond.  Thanks for posting it.


Let me start by saying I know the Drummond nay-sayers will say that everything Drummond achieves statistically is hollow, until he wins a title.  And there is some truth to that.  

Nevertheless, Drummond is guaranteed to be here another two years, at least, and maybe more if the Pistons successfully extend his contract.  So let's try to predict where Drummond will stand among franchise leaders after two more seasons.

In two years, Drummond will very likely be the 2nd all time Pistons rebounder, next to only Bill Laimbeer.  

He will have also won more rebounding titles than any other Pistons in history.

In two years, Drummond will likely be 3rd on the Pistons all-time shot blocking list, behind only Ben Wallace and Terry Tyler.

In two years, he'll likely continue to be the Pistons all-time leader in FG percentage.

And in two years, Drummond will possibly be in the top 10 in scoring.

And if the Pistons get their stuff together, and re-sign Drummond to a 5 year contract extension, the sky is the limit.


Now, if the Pistons could just win an NBA Title with Drummond.....

He played with better teammates! The Bad boys & the 2004 team were just that... TEAMS!

Both with HOF or close to  HOF PG's, HOF or close to HOF SG's, and on and on at SF & PF.

However, even lacking that level of support, and constant hate from haters, Drummond has quietly accomplished some monumental feats in his NBA Career.

Take a look at this article, he's impressive: Franchise milestones within reach for Andre Drummond

[Oracle]

He played with better teammates! The Bad boys & the 2004 team were just that... TEAMS!

Both with HOF or close to  HOF PG's, HOF or close to HOF SG's, and on and on at SF & PF.

However, even lacking that level of support, and constant hate from haters, Drummond has quietly accomplished some monumental feats in his NBA Career.

Take a look at this article, he's impressive: Franchise milestones within reach for Andre Drummond

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