THE DAY BEFORE

[WTF]

The last champion of the Detroit Pistons has left town; thank you for the memories, hard work, and community pride you contributed to instilling in all of us. The best of luck Mr. Tayshaun Prince.

We have a real pass first PG, and his assist to TO ratio is fantastic; what has that meant to Toronto? After signing that big ass contract, why was he benched? There are a lot of things that I don't know about Toronto, other than players seem to underachieve there (see Damon Stoudamire, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, and hopefully now, Jose Calderon).

What will the working relationship between Calderon and Lil' Larry be like? How will he be used? Will BK7 learn from Jose, as well as play with him? Will this be encouraged by the coaching staff? Is this the final stop, or a holdover on his way to someplace like Boston? I hope he stays, for the record.

Now that that's done, does Joe have what it takes to "cut bait" with his favorite Stuckey? Is there a place for Maxiell out there? Will Jerebko still be here after the deadline? How much better will the final product be, compared to where we started the year? Joe has surprised me, now it's time for him to amaze me!!

GO PISTONS!!

Putting my joy aside for a moment, I would just like to say that Joe and the Local Media are A-Holes. First we go entirely 4 seasons without a PG because dumb ass thinks a Pass First PG is [b]Antiquated Well Dry Nuck Me Fat Joe if this sh!t doesn't come 4 season too late.

Then we have the Local Media along with Tay and his agent all but pleading the case to keep Tay woth all his value and experience he brings to a young team. All that spilTay did about staying here only to be screwed like all the others by Joe. I bet you wish you took your silly arse to the Lakers and Clippers when they wanted back when (Dummy)

Stuckey keep looking over your shoulders and try not to get snucked by the Booty Bandit Joe.

[Murph]

I'm going to employ a wait and see attitude toward Calderon. I want to see how well he works within the Pistons offense, and whether or not he can facilitate the offense. I'm hoping he turns into a poor man's Jason Kidd for Detroit...a slow, old, awkward looking guy...but one who can direct traffic, space the floor, drop dimes, and makes his teammates much, much better.

I'm sure Lawence Frank is hoping Jose is a poor man's Kidd also, since Frank himself has no clue as to how to design an offense.

I'm also hoping a change of venue helps Calderon's career. I mean ever since Bosh left for greener pastures, the Raptors have been a rebuilding work in progress. You can't hold that against Calderon. While Bosh was in Toronto, the Raptors made the playoffs twice with Calderon running the point, losing in the 1st round twice. Currently, Detroit has much more talent, albeit inexperienced talent, than the Raptors, which should help Calderon.

Another thing to consider is that these pure PGs, like Kidd, Billups, Stockton, Nash, seem to be able to play effectively well into their late 30's, when brains become more important that quickness and athleticism. And it wouldn't be a bad thing if some of Caleron's smarts rubbed off on Brandon Knight...the way Jason Kidd's experience seems to help Raymond Felton in NY.

Bottom line: There's very little downside to this trade. If Calderon works out, facilitates the offense and tutors Knight...then great...Joe should try to re-sign Calderon for next year. If Calderon turns out to be a dud, and a defensive liability, then let him walk, and go after Collison in the off season, with all that cap space.

And an added benifit to the trade is that the Pistons have cleared the depth chart to see how Singler performs at what should be his natural position at SF. And JJ and Middleton should now get some burn at SF also.

Any way you look at it, Joe pulled off a fine trade.

[deusXango]

I'm going to employ a wait and see attitude toward Calderon. I want to see how well he works within the Pistons offense, and whether or not he can facilitate the offense. I'm hoping he turns into a poor man's Jason Kidd for Detroit...a slow, old, awkward looking guy...but one who can direct traffic, space the floor, drop dimes, and makes his teammates much, much better.

I'm sure Lawence Frank is hoping Jose is a poor man's Kidd also, since Frank himself has no clue as to how to design an offense.

I'm also hoping a change of venue helps Calderon's career. I mean ever since Bosh left for greener pastures, the Raptors have been a rebuilding work in progress. You can't hold that against Calderon. While Bosh was in Toronto, the Raptors made the playoffs twice with Calderon running the point, losing in the 1st round twice. Currently, Detroit has much more talent, albeit inexperienced talent, than the Raptors, which should help Calderon.

Another thing to consider is that these pure PGs, like Kidd, Billups, Stockton, Nash, seem to be able to play effectively well into their late 30's, when brains become more important that quickness and athleticism. And it wouldn't be a bad thing if some of Caleron's smarts rubbed off on Brandon Knight...the way Jason Kidd's experience seems to help Raymond Felton in NY.

Bottom line: There's very little downside to this trade. If Calderon works out, facilitates the offense and tutors Knight...then great...Joe should try to re-sign Calderon for next year. If Calderon turns out to be a dud, and a defensive liability, then let him walk, and go after Collison in the off season, with all that cap space.

And an added benifit to the trade is that the Pistons have cleared the depth chart to see how Singler performs at what should be his natural position at SF. And JJ and Middleton should now get some burn at SF also.

Any way you look at it, Joe pulled off a fine trade.

Sho' you right Murph. Thanks for the clarity and sound assessment of where we are as a team. I'm hoping for the best.

[deusXango]

DX .. you wanted to find out why the Raptors wanted to trade Calderon? I still really like the trade and think we can use the "purest of PGs" as he has been described .. either to help get the offense in flow .. and / or give BK7 some schooling .. but .. there is another side ...

QUOTE: Injuries have chased Jose to the bench and the shooting percentages have come down. He's been a sieve on defense, standing out even among bad defenders.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Thanks Grizz, for the feed on Calderon, it was really eye-opening. In addition to Kyle Lowery, and injuries, it seems that Jose has a problem with self-motivation, and as one poster on the Bleacher Report wrote back in Sept. 2012:

"The biggest problem with Jose is that he plays better off the bench. It's pretty obvious to Raptors fans, really. When TJ Ford started, Jose came off the bench and played great all the time since he had to fight for his minutes. The next year, the same thing continued until around the middle of the season, when Ford got injured badly. Jose came into the starting role and played really well. Then they started to give Jose the permanent starting role over Ford, then Jarrett Jack, then some other guy, then Bayless. And he never played as hard, unless he was coming off the bench and had to fight for minutes."

It would seem to me that we have our mentor for young BK7, and everything Jose needs to revive his career is here, in the form of Arnie Kander. If he should be re-signed for say, $4-5 million per year, for 3-4 years, Knight would become this basketball wizard many envision (that assist to TO ratio boggles my mind, along with those historical shooting percentages). I'd love for BK7 to become "the purest of PG's."

[cool breeze]

DX .. you wanted to find out why the Raptors wanted to trade Calderon? I still really like the trade and think we can use the "purest of PGs" as he has been described .. either to help get the offense in flow .. and / or give BK7 some schooling .. but .. there is another side ...

QUOTE: Injuries have chased Jose to the bench and the shooting percentages have come down. He's been a sieve on defense, standing out even among bad defenders.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Thanks Grizz, for the feed on Calderon, it was really eye-opening. In addition to Kyle Lowery, and injuries, it seems that Jose has a problem with self-motivation, and as one poster on the Bleacher Report wrote back in Sept. 2012:

"The biggest problem with Jose is that he plays better off the bench. It's pretty obvious to Raptors fans, really. When TJ Ford started, Jose came off the bench and played great all the time since he had to fight for his minutes. The next year, the same thing continued until around the middle of the season, when Ford got injured badly. Jose came into the starting role and played really well. Then they started to give Jose the permanent starting role over Ford, then Jarrett Jack, then some other guy, then Bayless. And he never played as hard, unless he was coming off the bench and had to fight for minutes."

It would seem to me that we have our mentor for young BK7, and everything Jose needs to revive his career is here, in the form of Arnie Kander. If he should be re-signed for say, $4-5 million per year, for 3-4 years, Knight would become this basketball wizard many envision (that assist to TO ratio boggles my mind, along with those historical shooting percentages). I'd love for BK7 to become "the purest of PG's."

I heard and have observed the truth about Jose. He is a liability on as a defender. While Knight has improved his defense, Bynum and Stuckey still struggle with concentration. Stuckey could be a great defender and Vincent Goodwill continues to promote Stuckey's defensive ability. However, I see mental lapses where Stuckey gives up baseline and doesn't force his man into help. Again, Stuckey was supposed to play a key role where Dumars groomed him to be the star player of this Piston team. It hasn't happened. Will Jose fit in as a starter or bench guy? How will his arrival affect Bynum? I thought for sure Stuckey would be traded.

[cool breeze]

Why not take a SWAG at next year's roster...
C- Drummond, Monroe, Kravs
PF- Josh Smith, Monroe, CV (last year), JJ
SF- Chandler, Singler, JJ, Middleton
SG- Knight, English, Singler
PG- Collison, Burke, Knight

Mercury that would be sweet!

[deusXango]

My dream for this summer of "big spending" consists of buying what we need out of the lottery; Ben McLemore (SG) and/or Trey Burke or Michael Carter-Williams (PG). These two players would complete our rebuilding backcourt of the future (if you haven't seen them play, give 'em a look before you thumb your collective noses up at me). If Singler or Middleton is not the answer for our future SF, Joe can sign one as a FA (paying max money is not neccessary with what we have). Send "the Russian" and Drummond to Olajuwan's big man camp; if he'll only take one, send Drummond, and let Kravtsov work out with Ben Wallace (hire him just for that).

[cool breeze]

Jerebco looked more lively last night but he is nowhere near being in game shape. You have to play in games to get your conditioning in place and your timing down especially the way Jerebco likes to play the game. Watch out if he continues to get minutes because I believe the combination of Jerebco and Singler can be something special the way they like to share the basketball and the the way they like to play defense. It will take time for Singler to take on a bigger role at the small forward position. Add Jose to this mix and we should see some exciting offense where real team basketball will be played with more screening and movcement off the ball.

As a new team is now forming for at least this season before free agency signings that might come in the summer, isn't it time to reduce Maxiell's minutes? Can Drummond handle more minutes at this point in time? Or can our Russian Assassin become part of the rotation for the remainder of the season? Last night Detroit was killed on the boards again. Monroe-Maxiell combination on defense is dreadfull much of the time. Maxiell has never been a good defensive rebounder. The coach has both Monroe and Maxiell trying to do too much on defense and allows them to go beyond the free throw line far out on the wings at times which leaves the paint unprotected and both of those players boxed out by opposing big men who are getting far too many offensive rebounds. The coaching staff has been the fatal error of trying to fit their defensive system with players who can't function in that system. If Monroe-Maxiell play together or Charlie V with either player, then the coaching staff needs to revise their defensive system to fit those players. What has been happening is insane. The Russian can move out and recover quicker as can Jerebco. However, both of those players lack weight needed to play against many NBA big men. With this team, the big men should not go out beyond 10 feet on any area of the floor unless they are guarding a high percentage shooter. Let the other team beat them with the long ball instead of giving up layups and second and third chance attempts by the opposition.

[lemonpen]

Has our management given up on the idea of making the playoffs. They won't announce it either way but LF's lineups should give an indication.

[lemonpen]

You want to tow a heavy object. You start with a vehicle having 50 HP and can't get her moving. Increase your HP to 100 and get her up to half the speed you need. Well, your vehicle is statistically and actually much stronger but still unable to get her done. Given the load you wish to move there is a threshold HP required to safely do the job. Anything less yields poor performance, anything more offers added capacity for hilly terrain.

It dosent matter how well he finesses the accelerator or how smoothly he shifts gears, Frank is operating with 100 horses against a 150 HP playoff threshold. If the road is smooth, flat and straight we're ok. But when we experience low tire pressure, or low octane gas, or a headwind .............. well, not so much.

[Oracle]

You want to tow a heavy object. You start with a vehicle having 50 HP and can't get her moving. Increase your HP to 100 and get her up to half the speed you need. Well, your vehicle is statistically and actually much stronger but still unable to get her done. Given the load you wish to move there is a threshold HP required to safely do the job. Anything less yields poor performance, anything more offers added capacity for hilly terrain.

It dosent matter how well he finesses the accelerator or how smoothly he shifts gears, Frank is operating with 100 horses against a 150 HP playoff threshold. If the road is smooth, flat and straight we're ok. But when we experience low tire pressure, or low octane gas, or a headwind .............. well, not so much.

Yes and No!

He has to make a strong playoff run to last, IMO! Why?

Because I don't know why anyone would take a chance at another patented Larry Frank losing streak to start next season!

I wouldn't risk that with my money for any reason unless Frank proved to me that he can get these guys to over perform and make the playoffs!

You're making your statement a bit early, because you nor I know what the HP Frank will ultimately have until the deadline has passed.

But in the weak east, one or two good runs could do the trick, but again, we don't know the full landscape until the deadline passes, because Boston could make moves, and Bynum is returning to Philly, so there are variables out there.

But I still believe that he has to show some very positive results to stick, and that should be firmly in Larry's control, and the things out of his control will be easily visible for us to give him a break on.

[Sebastian]

Why are some of OUR Pistons Pals getting all giddy and wet about a Jose Calderon and Kyle Singler starting?

Sorry folks, but WE can't have Jose and Singler starting.

[FlyDog]

Why not?

[cool breeze]

You want to tow a heavy object. You start with a vehicle having 50 HP and can't get her moving. Increase your HP to 100 and get her up to half the speed you need. Well, your vehicle is statistically and actually much stronger but still unable to get her done. Given the load you wish to move there is a threshold HP required to safely do the job. Anything less yields poor performance, anything more offers added capacity for hilly terrain.

It dosent matter how well he finesses the accelerator or how smoothly he shifts gears, Frank is operating with 100 horses against a 150 HP playoff threshold. If the road is smooth, flat and straight we're ok. But when we experience low tire pressure, or low octane gas, or a headwind .............. well, not so much.

I agree and do not think that Frank will be fired if the Pistons do not make the playoffs. All responsibility rides with Joe Dumars. This is still a players league and the players decide things. I agree that Frank hasn't helped make things work better and he has played too many combinations which include some of the slowest players in the league. At times, this team has played much better than last season. However, Dumars ace player, Stuckey has not been a solid player or consistant player yet. He was the guy who Dumars counted on to become a star player. It hasn't worked out. I think that Stuckey wants to move to another team. Maybe if he can hold down the starting job his play will pick up but who can count on him to lead any team? I like the fact that Frank has stuck with Knight and Singler even though they have been up and down. The coaches should get some credit for getting Drummond up to speed as well. Perhaps Dumars has instructed Frank on who he wants on the floor for purposes of making trades. There is a lot we don't know. Frank has failed to understand who he has as players and to create the best possible defense for those players who are not as quick as most players in the NBA. However, a lot can happen from now until the end of the season. Jerebco may become the player he had been in the past. English may establish himself as a quality 2 guard. Knight, Singler and Drummond might really do a number on some teams consistantly before the end of this season. I hope Frank does the right thing and plays the young guys as much as possible and I do not believe he should lose his job because of any playoff situation. Make a good draft selection and bring in at least one key player in free agency. dX has mentioned some players I would really like to see in a Piston uniform.

[Sissy1946]

Sparma: Let me know if you make it to the Tigertalk forum, will be looking for ya over there.

[Oracle]

Frank is consistent ONLY in a few things!

1. It's guaranteed that you're going to have a horrible losing streak at the beginning of the season! This can only be attributed to lack of prerparation, a total misjudging of the situation, and not vetting players for the positions that he deploys them in!

2. It's guaranteed that he will be like a deer in the headlights when the other team makes a run, because he doesn't know why or how it happened!

3. Don, you may hope that players get played, but the fact is that it's guaranteed someone will get PT, then get forgotten for weeks. The only question is who's got next?

So you say it's a players league? Yeah, that's mostly true, but if your coach suffers from all of the above three problems, the players aren't going to get much of a chance to prove that theory!

[Oracle]

The Grizz were caught by surprise, but they say they'll make up for the loss of Gay! Zac said,

"Power forward Zach Randolph expects the Griz to return to predominantly playing inside-out basketball and less pick-and-roll offense.

“We still have to play the right way but be a little more aggressive,” Randolph said. “Maybe coach will come to me a little more and puts me back in the focus of the offense.”" - Zach Randolph

That's the ticket, it's now time to focus on the Zackster, lol!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

Well, that was a sweet game Joe & Prince played on us, and I almost bought it!

First Prince comes out and talks about how he'll never be traded and one day he may go to Joe and say it's time.

Then he supposedly gets traded and he's surprised! Who knew, Prince is shocked!

Give me a freaking break, Prince had to know about this! He slipped in that interview and said he talked to Joe almost daily, and Joe kept him informed... was he lying?

Of course not, Joe told him, but told him to appear surprised. There's no way Joe was going to do that to Prince without Prince's ok to do the deal.

[Oracle]

Why are some of OUR Pistons Pals getting all giddy and wet about a Jose Calderon and Kyle Singler starting?

Sorry folks, but WE can't have Jose and Singler starting.

We don't have much of choice right now. The real question is who starts at SG and SF!

You can go one of two ways.

1. Leave Singler at the 2 and try JJ or Midelton at the 3
2. Move Singler to the 3 and try English at the 2

I do see the problem of Jose & Singler though, it really compromises us on defense. It's not that Singler's defense is that bad, it's not, but he is slow, though not as slow as Jose.

It's going to be a balancing act, but Singler at SF isn't much worse that Prince at SF in terms of speed, so if Singler is out of the SG business, that's a good thing!

[Sparma]

I'm all in now, having registered at the site you pointed out to me. Looks like fun. I expect a terrific season for the Tigers.

[cool breeze]

Why are some of OUR Pistons Pals getting all giddy and wet about a Jose Calderon and Kyle Singler starting?

Sorry folks, but WE can't have Jose and Singler starting.

We don't have much of choice right now. The real question is who starts at SG and SF!

You can go one of two ways.

1. Leave Singler at the 2 and try JJ or Midelton at the 3
2. Move Singler to the 3 and try English at the 2

I do see the problem of Jose & Singler though, it really compromises us on defense. It's not that Singler's defense is that bad, it's not, but he is slow, though not as slow as Jose.

It's going to be a balancing act, but Singler at SF isn't much worse that Prince at SF in terms of speed, so if Singler is out of the SG business, that's a good thing!

I can't let this go Oracle. How do fans come up with the idea that Singler is the problem on defense. I just don't get it. Singler is now the best defender on this team. Prince held that title before. Monroe, Maxiell, Stuckey, Bynum, Charlie V have problems on defense. Singler helps those guys out especially when the big men are AWOL in the paint. I have watched Singler block a lot of shots. He is not a slow player for a guy who is almost 6 foot 9 inches tall. He creates problems for oppositing players because of his size. He knows how to get through screens and was known as a smart and dangerous defender in college which all college coaches knew about. Maybe Singler's biggest fault is that he is trying to do too much. But this guy is a first year player for God's sake. He is doing great but he will be up and down until next season. Opposing announcers on PASS are always talking about how smart Singler is for a first year player. My concern right now is the question of if Singler is ready for a bigger role on this team not less. He is a great fit for small forward. My worries are about the other players who play ball with a low basketball IQ. I hear some alleged experts saying that Stuckey is a really good defender. I don't see it. He loses concentration at big moments. He often goes under screens instead of going over screens. It is not that Stuckey lacks quickness. The question I have is does he really give a crap about playing defense hard all the time. I have no question in that area about Singler's motivation to become a really good player. He wants it and he will do it.

[Oracle]

Don, firstly, where did you read that Singler was a poor defender?

Secondly, Singler is dog slow when he's playing the SG role! I know you watch the games, and they blow past this dude like he isn't even there!

That's why he's a SF, not a SG!

There's only so many smoke and mirrors you can employ to save Singler if he plays SG, and it's beyond solid logic to want him there, I simply don't understand it!

We'll NEVER have a winning team playing guys out of position!

[Oracle]

Here it is!

If you're looking for another piece of evidence that Jose Calderon is going to fit right in with the Pistons I give you this video. In it Charles Klask, Detroit's leader in analytics talks about his job in general but at about the 1:20 mark he talks about a project coach Lawrence Frank asked him to dive into -- information on pick-and-roll combinations.

Sadly, the numbers pointed out that Detroit's best pick-and-roll partners were Rodney Stuckey and Jason Maxiell. Well, Frank now has one of the NBA's premier pick-and-roll guards at his disposal. I'm sure Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond will be extremely happy - BB.com

[Oracle]

This is why Joe can't be finished! I've said we have a bunch of brick layers in the starting unit, but the horror of what's going on is shown(thought not as well as they could) in this article.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[WTF]

Initially I was all for this Singler at SG, I thought his worse days would only come against the Elite SG's but even the average Joe Blow whips his arse. I'm not even sure now how he will handle the SF position either

Singler is a smart playerbut he's not a starter at least not at the moment.

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