T-Will

[Murph]

You'll may remember that a certain Pistons fan was a proponent of Joe adding TWill to OUR roster.

Even when TWill was a member of the Rockets, there were posts conjured that would invent ways to add the multi-purpose baller to OUR roster.

TWill can add a solid rotation of guard play, offensively as well as defensively. TWill can also provide minutes at the point and can guard the position.

Folks got to believe that TWill, who is still young is not coming for only a tryout paycheck. Inviting TWill to the tryout roster is going to force another move.

Don't forget TWill and Stuckey are homies.

Yes...I see very little downside in bringing Terrence Williams into camp, and even keeping him on the roster as a back-up to Stuckey. This seems like a low risk, low cost move, that could potentially have a nice payoff, if Williams can play solid D at the SG spot and can provide decent backup minutes to Stuckey.

I don't know much about Terrence Williams. But a couple of negatives I notice are his embarassingly low FG% and high number of TOs . In order to become a productive NBA player, he's going to have to improve his shot selection and take care of the ball better.

But the only real downside to this move is that it's going to cost Kim English valuable minutes.


I would be interested in what other forum member think of this move. (Sebastian likes it, I know.)

[deusXango]

You'll may remember that a certain Pistons fan was a proponent of Joe adding TWill to OUR roster.

Even when TWill was a member of the Rockets, there were posts conjured that would invent ways to add the multi-purpose baller to OUR roster.

TWill can add a solid rotation of guard play, offensively as well as defensively. TWill can also provide minutes at the point and can guard the position.

Folks got to believe that TWill, who is still young is not coming for only a tryout paycheck. Inviting TWill to the tryout roster is going to force another move.

Don't forget TWill and Stuckey are homies.

Yes...I see very little downside in bringing Terrence Williams into camp, and even keeping him on the roster as a back-up to Stuckey. This seems like a low risk, low cost move, that could potentially have a nice payoff, if Williams can play solid D at the SG spot and can provide decent backup minutes to Stuckey.

I don't know much about Terrence Williams. But a couple of negatives I notice are his embarassingly low FG% and high number of TOs . In order to become a productive NBA player, he's going to have to improve his shot selection and take care of the ball better.

But the only real downside to this move is that it's going to cost Kim English valuable minutes.


I would be interested in what other forum member think of this move. (Sebastian likes it, I know.)

"What the hell does Terrence Williams have to do with addressing our backup PG situation? Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, Charlie Villanueva, Austin Daye Corey Maggette, and to a certain extent, Brandon Knight represent our fair share of "mad bombers" and "silly slashers." Where is the brain?"

This was my response as soon as I heard the plans to sign and bring this young man into camp. Murph has stated my feelings precisely about this move; it's not like treading water, it's more like treading in quicksand. The developing team chemistry with our young draftees will suffer over time. The last thing we need now is another "combo guard"/SG who's best offensive move is a break away slam dunk. Personally, I want to see how Kim English develops defensively; he has a high basketball I.Q. and brings the outside shot that T-Will can't come close to matching, plus he wants to be a Piston (T-Will is looking for a job). Khris Middleton deserves whatever chance is to be given to T-Will, as he was drafted higher than English. For the life of me I can't understand why people keep ignoring the fact that our highest paid player this year is Corey Maggette, a player who plays SG/SF. This man represents our CAP relief next year! The move to have been made that the Pistons would have benefited from was the signing of Scott Machado before Houston got their hands on him; wouldn't it be something watching Machado and Bynum fight it out for PT? Wouldn't it make more sense watching competition where we're thin, as opposed to where we're over-crowded?

Sebastian, I give you credit for being a big Terrence Williams supporter, and always talking about the Pistons obtaining his services, that being said, he just don't fit our needs right now. Why isn't Joe trying to trade for your precious Rudy Gay, or my pick, Wilson Chandler? We need a backup PG and an upgrade for our starting SF to begin growing with the youth we have, and blending with our developing chemistry. That's my 2 cents worth.

[Sebastian]

You'll may remember that a certain Pistons fan was a proponent of Joe adding TWill to OUR roster.

Even when TWill was a member of the Rockets, there were posts conjured that would invent ways to add the multi-purpose baller to OUR roster.

TWill can add a solid rotation of guard play, offensively as well as defensively. TWill can also provide minutes at the point and can guard the position.

Folks got to believe that TWill, who is still young is not coming for only a tryout paycheck. Inviting TWill to the tryout roster is going to force another move.

Don't forget TWill and Stuckey are homies.

Yes...I see very little downside in bringing Terrence Williams into camp, and even keeping him on the roster as a back-up to Stuckey. This seems like a low risk, low cost move, that could potentially have a nice payoff, if Williams can play solid D at the SG spot and can provide decent backup minutes to Stuckey.

I don't know much about Terrence Williams. But a couple of negatives I notice are his embarassingly low FG% and high number of TOs . In order to become a productive NBA player, he's going to have to improve his shot selection and take care of the ball better.

But the only real downside to this move is that it's going to cost Kim English valuable minutes.


I would be interested in what other forum member think of this move. (Sebastian likes it, I know.)

"What the hell does Terrence Williams have to do with addressing our backup PG situation? Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, Charlie Villanueva, Austin Daye Corey Maggette, and to a certain extent, Brandon Knight represent our fair share of "mad bombers" and "silly slashers." Where is the brain?"

This was my response as soon as I heard the plans to sign and bring this young man into camp. Murph has stated my feelings precisely about this move; it's not like treading water, it's more like treading in quicksand. The developing team chemistry with our young draftees will suffer over time. The last thing we need now is another "combo guard"/SG who's best offensive move is a break away slam dunk. Personally, I want to see how Kim English develops defensively; he has a high basketball I.Q. and brings the outside shot that T-Will can't come close to matching, plus he wants to be a Piston (T-Will is looking for a job). Khris Middleton deserves whatever chance is to be given to T-Will, as he was drafted higher than English. For the life of me I can't understand why people keep ignoring the fact that our highest paid player this year is Corey Maggette, a player who plays SG/SF. This man represents our CAP relief next year! The move to have been made that the Pistons would have benefited from was the signing of Scott Machado before Houston got their hands on him; wouldn't it be something watching Machado and Bynum fight it out for PT? Wouldn't it make more sense watching competition where we're thin, as opposed to where we're over-crowded?

Sebastian, I give you credit for being a big Terrence Williams supporter, and always talking about the Pistons obtaining his services, that being said, he just don't fit our needs right now. Why isn't Joe trying to trade for your precious Rudy Gay, or my pick, Wilson Chandler? We need a backup PG and an upgrade for our starting SF to begin growing with the youth we have, and blending with our developing chemistry. That's my 2 cents worth.

DX, much respect to your points of view. But, here's my thinking:

1- True, T.Will is not a back-up point guard. But, he is an aggressive 6'6" young, basketball player who is seeking to redeem himself. Hasn't OUR squad always been a place, where players come to redeem themselves. T.Will can play a very respectable level of defense on every PG and SG in the League and can play the point well enough, allowing Stuckey, Knight, and/or English to play off the ball, while T.Will has the ball.

2- Indeed, Machado would have been a nice addition, but it didn't happen. I much rather then have a young multi-purpose player named, Terrence Williams. And, if English is really as good as WE hope that he is, then he will get his time on the floor.

3- Knight, Stuckey, and a little bit of Will B. is a stout cadre of PGs.

4- WE do seem to agree that OUR SF position has to improve, quick! I don't particularly believe that WE are well served to have a bunch of cap space. I say trade for a guy who grew up in Baltimore and has played his entire pro career in Memphis. Detroit is a transition that Rudy can make, psychologically, socially, and environmentally. WE will never get a player on Rudy's level via free agency. Trade for him, now. Move Tay and Maggette. Memphis want to get out of Rudy's contract and at the same time, replace his level of play; Tay and Maggette checks both boxes.

I will take this space to reiterate: inviting T. Will to camp as a separate move, is not what WE should focus on. If Joe has awaken, he will also make the move for Rudy and move Singler and Daye to Toronto for Amir. Amir can return to Detroit, like the Prodigal Son. He's a grown man, now, and would be a good guy to play along side Moose, The Ukraine, Dre Drummond. Amir is a "real" PF.

Jerebko would be great at backing up Rudy and playing with Moose, when teams try to go small.

Keep in mind that the following roster is $62,519,706 with $16,310,000 coming off the books, next season. A total of $5,206,169 less than OUR current salary total of $67,725,875.

PG- B. Knight/Stuckey/Bynum
SG- Stuckey/T. Will/English
SF- Rudy/Jerebko/Middleton
PF- Moose/Amir/Maxey/Charlie V.
C- The Ukraine/Dre Drummond/Maxey

Training Camp opens a week from tomorrow and WE need to start the season with a competitive roster. Speed up the rebuild. Let's compete now. Gore has to start selling seats, for real!

[deusXango]

This is the most important time in the resurrection of our beloved Pistons, and personal agendas by anyone, from top to bottom, can upset the delicate balance between growing into contenders vs falling deeper into the mire of mediocrity.

The young players that Joe Dumars has assembled this past summer should be given a chance to play, grow, and develop that most precious commodity, confidence. Oddly enough, from a fans perspective, I can see the chemistry already. No minor trades or acquisitions should be made, just major ones. Should the young'uns take presidence over our veterans? YES! If Joe can't trade 'em, why not? Get the young boys as much PT as possible.

One of the signs that things are going in the wrong direction is Greg Monroe playing extended minutes at center; Jason Maxiell and/or Charlie Villanueva are on the floor for much too long, and it's at the expense of Drummond and Kravstov sitting the bench. Andre and Slava are the future not JMax and Charlie V. The coach has an agenda when that happens. Both Middleton and English continually get DNP-CD, something's wrong. If Singler can't find himself playing more than 5-10 minutes every now and then, something's wrong.

Maggette, Maxiell, Daye, and Bynum is our "money in the bank," not players we should be counting on to make it through the season. I wouldn't pay a nickle to see them struggle to win a few games, but I'm out in the ice, snow, and cold to see the youngsters work hard and compete, because a few wins will surely come their way on effort alone (Monroe, Stuckey, Knight, Prince, and Jerebko really ain't that bad).

The most practical stance that the organization can make is to go all out with the youth movement, because that's what's gonna pay off in the long run.

[cool breeze]

This is the most important time in the resurrection of our beloved Pistons, and personal agendas by anyone, from top to bottom, can upset the delicate balance between growing into contenders vs falling deeper into the mire of mediocrity.

The young players that Joe Dumars has assembled this past summer should be given a chance to play, grow, and develop that most precious commodity, confidence. Oddly enough, from a fans perspective, I can see the chemistry already. No minor trades or acquisitions should be made, just major ones. Should the young'uns take presidence over our veterans? YES! If Joe can't trade 'em, why not? Get the young boys as much PT as possible.

One of the signs that things are going in the wrong direction is Greg Monroe playing extended minutes at center; Jason Maxiell and/or Charlie Villanueva are on the floor for much too long, and it's at the expense of Drummond and Kravstov sitting the bench. Andre and Slava are the future not JMax and Charlie V. The coach has an agenda when that happens. Both Middleton and English continually get DNP-CD, something's wrong. If Singler can't find himself playing more than 5-10 minutes every now and then, something's wrong.

Maggette, Maxiell, Daye, and Bynum is our "money in the bank," not players we should be counting on to make it through the season. I wouldn't pay a nickle to see them struggle to win a few games, but I'm out in the ice, snow, and cold to see the youngsters work hard and compete, because a few wins will surely come their way on effort alone (Monroe, Stuckey, Knight, Prince, and Jerebko really ain't that bad).

The most practical stance that the organization can make is to go all out with the youth movement, because that's what's gonna pay off in the long run.

Good post dX. However, I doubt your wishes will come true at least for the first part of the season. Dumars might be trying to unload Maxiell, Charlie V, Daye and Bynum and that will be difficult if they are sitting on the bench. If the team loses big with those players along with Mggette getting a lot of minutes, I doubt that Frank will continue to play those players we all want gone from the organization. Sooner or later your wishes will come true.

[merc]

On the money Don... I suspect the lineup we see early on will be very different than after the deadline... just don't want to see Joe miss another opportunity to trades exps and have to settle for FA leftovers again.

[Oracle]

On the money Don... I suspect the lineup we see early on will be very different than after the deadline... just don't want to see Joe miss another opportunity to trades exps and have to settle for FA leftovers again.

Agreed! Unless a move is made, the chances of anybody just sitting Bynum, CV, Maxiell, Prince, Daye, or Magette for extended periods of time is virtually ZERO! For my money, we could lose all of them, lose more games, but be better off in the long run. Although a good argument could be made for some veteran influence, so maybe not all of them.

I don't like it, but there it is!

My only desire is to maximize the PT of our core group of youngsters, and move Kim English into the rotation(whom I consider the new Afflalo).

Singler also needs to see the light of day, but IMO, English is the cream of the crop(most balanced) right now, and needs to be developed.

[Oracle]

Suck donkey arse!!!

[Oracle]

Suck donkey arse!!!

OMG, OMG, the lions have tied it up with seconds to go!!!

[deusXango]

The Lions are beginning to resemble the Lions of old; no matter what the game looks like, they'll find a new way to loose it. A muffed QB sneak for inches on a day our RB's have looked better than at anytime lately? Sh!t!!!!

[deusXango]

With all due respect to Merc and Oracle, any moves made at the trade deadline are moves made too late for us. Why would we wait until mid-season to play our youth? Why not hit the ground running? We are a unique franchise right now, in that we can afford to error on the side of achieving progress in the near future (not distant), and we've got some rookies that may well out perform their veteran counterparts (all things considered). We need to make whatever moves we're gonna make before training camp starts (whoever we bring in don't need to be playing catch up in Frank's system).

"Dumars might be trying to unload Maxiell, Charlie V, Daye and Bynum and that will be difficult if they are sitting on the bench." This is a quote by Don that many fans are hopeing for but, what GM worth his salt hasn't seen those guys play? It's nothing that can be "showcased" by these players that'll increase their trade value (there may be damaging performances by the trade deadline though). Anyone wanting our expiring contracts (2 or more) must take Charlie V. as part of the deal. Last year Charlie V sat himself! "I sprained my ankle during a dream?!" If I never see that clown again, I've seen more than enough of him in a Pistons uniform.

The expiring contracts of Maggette and Maxiell, along with the remaining talents of Prince, should get us the dynamic, prolific, young, starting quality SF we need; This is a move that needs to be made now, however.

[Oracle]

With all due respect to Merc and Oracle, any moves made at the trade deadline are moves made too late for us. Why would we wait until mid-season to play our youth? Why not hit the ground running? We are a unique franchise right now, in that we can afford to error on the side of achieving progress in the near future (not distant), and we've got some rookies that may well out perform their veteran counterparts (all things considered). We need to make whatever moves we're gonna make before training camp starts (whoever we bring in don't need to be playing catch up in Frank's system).

"Dumars might be trying to unload Maxiell, Charlie V, Daye and Bynum and that will be difficult if they are sitting on the bench." This is a quote by Don that many fans are hopeing for but, what GM worth his salt hasn't seen those guys play? It's nothing that can be "showcased" by these players that'll increase their trade value (there may be damaging performances by the trade deadline though). Anyone wanting our expiring contracts (2 or more) must take Charlie V. as part of the deal. Last year Charlie V sat himself! "I sprained my ankle during a dream?!" If I never see that clown again, I've seen more than enough of him in a Pistons uniform.

The expiring contracts of Maggette and Maxiell, along with the remaining talents of Prince, should get us the dynamic, prolific, young, starting quality SF we need; This is a move that needs to be made now, however.

DX, I'm not really thinking forum or media, simply drawing a conclusion from the facts in evidence.

We all mostly agree with you, I'm in the 95+ percentile, but that isn't going to change the facts on the ground.

To have the amount of salaries we're talking about sitting on the bench would be fiscal and management malpractice, and nobody is going to do that. In fact, I've never seen any team go to that level.

They generally wait until they can make moves, and then play the youngsters, or they play the vets in hopes of attracting attention.

If they followed your advice, only a lunatic would trade for the players not being played. It's a sad fact, but that's what the Pistons are facing.

[Oracle]

The Lions are beginning to resemble the Lions of old; no matter what the game looks like, they'll find a new way to loose it. A muffed QB sneak for inches on a day our RB's have looked better than at anytime lately? Sh!t!!!!

ANY team that has a player like Megatron, being double and tripple covered, that can't find other recievers that HAVE to be wide open on every play, is beyond hopeless!!!

And yes, you make an excellent point! We were running like champs(for the lions), and they give to the slowest dude on the team? It's criminal!

Somebody PLEASE call the cops!!!

[Oracle]

Clean up this Mess???

[Only admins are allowed to see this image]

[Grizz3]

Tigers and Lions .. grasping at straws inches from victory .. OUCH! Why does this all feel so familiar? And when will the breakout coach / manger / star player just say enough is enough and smash the other team down hard? Time to look forward to the Pistons ..

[Grizz3]

Good photo Oracle .. sums up the view of how easy it isn't to trade trash .. BUT .. dont play the trash more than 10 minutes a game or this will mean doom for our young guns development ..

[Griz3]

DX WROTE: "What the hell does Terrence Williams have to do with addressing our backup PG situation? Rodney Stuckey, Will Bynum, Charlie Villanueva, Austin Daye Corey Maggette, and to a certain extent, Brandon Knight represent our fair share of "mad bombers" and "silly slashers." Where is the brain?"

This was my response as soon as I heard the plans to sign and bring this young man into camp. Murph has stated my feelings precisely about this move; it's not like treading water, it's more like treading in quicksand. The developing team chemistry with our young draftees will suffer over time. The last thing we need now is another "combo guard"/SG who's best offensive move is a break away slam dunk. Personally, I want to see how Kim English develops defensively; he has a high basketball I.Q. and brings the outside shot that T-Will can't come close to matching, plus he wants to be a Piston (T-Will is looking for a job). Khris Middleton deserves whatever chance is to be given to T-Will, as he was drafted higher than English. For the life of me I can't understand why people keep ignoring the fact that our highest paid player this year is Corey Maggette, a player who plays SG/SF. This man represents our CAP relief next year! The move to have been made that the Pistons would have benefited from was the signing of Scott Machado before Houston got their hands on him; wouldn't it be something watching Machado and Bynum fight it out for PT? Wouldn't it make more sense watching competition where we're thin, as opposed to where we're over-crowded?

Sebastian, I give you credit for being a big Terrence Williams supporter, and always talking about the Pistons obtaining his services, that being said, he just don't fit our needs right now. Why isn't Joe trying to trade for your precious Rudy Gay, or my pick, Wilson Chandler? We need a backup PG and an upgrade for our starting SF to begin growing with the youth we have, and blending with our developing chemistry. That's my 2 cents worth.

Grizz: Right on DX .. Nothing to add .. Why repeat past stupid moves? It is all about growing this team together .. not splintering them into an unrecognizable shards of confusion and half-ass-ness.

[merc]

DX, We're on the same program on which players need be moved... and sooner than later...just not sure it's that easy to get value in return for players that can't earn their way off the bench on a non playoff team.... it would help if players like JMax and Bynum play well early on.... no sense dealing these guys for someone elses trash.

[merc]

Add this guy to the camp roster...
[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[deusXango]

Oracle, wherever did you get that picture of Joe's mind? Seriously though, the sad facts of the reality of our situation is mind numbing, and we signed the players that no one'll touch; sitting them is not as fiscally irresponsible as signing/drafting them in the first place was. Outside of Charlie V, everone else falls off our payroll next year anyway; Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince are our most appealing trade pieces, and they both will get quality PT.

Merc, thanks for the heads up on Jonny Flynn; if we can "Houdini" Daye and Bynum, T-Will and Flynn make more sense than Damian Wilkins and Walker Russell Jr. did last year. Movement before training camp is taking place and I can't ask for more......I'm hopeful. If both these guys make the roster, and no major trade takes place, then someone is sitting and someone is headed to the D-league. Whoever is slated for the D-league, send them early and not late in the year (give them as much of a chance at PT as possible, no matter where they get it).

[Murph]

For some reason, I've always liked Jonny Flynn...probably from his Syracuse days.

I'd take Flynn over Bynum based on age and potential.

Another good move by Dumars.

[cool breeze]

While trying to imagine what is going on in that brain of Joe Dumars, I have written that perhaps Dumars will pressure the Piston coaching staff to play those players who were not able to compete very well against other NBA players in past seasons. Thinking that if Frank does what Joe wants and those vet players smell the Palace up during the first part of the season, Frank will then bench those players for the remainder of the season. dX, Grizz and others rightfully do not approve of this plan and believe that it is really important for the coaching staff to play the young players even if they lose so as to create some type of positive team chemistry which will increase chances for glory in coming seasons. I think every Piston fan is damn tired of seeing the same old faces that have disappointed so many Piston fans for a long time. The owner needs to bring in the fans. Therefore, he needs to take a page out of Michigan history to rid the team of what some posters are now calling "the trash".

Back at the end of the War of 1812 some smart American officers invited the British high command on a boat outing in the area of Drummond Island in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. They started this party early in the evening at Detour after belting down several shots of whiskey. I am not sure if the Americans had any prostitutes aboard but I do know that there was plenty of alcohol consumed by the Brits. Before the night ended, the British government had agreed to what is now the current division of land between Canada and the USA. The British evacuated their troops from Drummond Island without so much as a shot being fired and the rest is history. So why can't the Pistons clever owner, with all his connections with beautiful women and entertainers, somehow host a wild party for the various GMs in the NBA? My plan would of course include an invitation for David Stern and his underling free loaders. How big is his staff anyway? Joe could whisper that a special three lap dance offer would be on the table in return for David's approval of any deal the Pistons can make during that party? Perhaps Dumars can hire some gay men for some of the members of Stern's group or gay GMs regarding the lap dancers. I am sure there will be requests for the male dancers to wear black leather pants with the leather cut off around the ass for this special private party. Only Vincent Goodwill would be allowed to attend from the local papers and could be counted on to keep a lid on regarding potential bad publicity. Do any of you believe that our Piston owner could pull this off and somehow convince Dumars that this is the only way he will ever be able to unload Charlie V and some of the "OTHERS"????? How does "Charlie And The Others" sound for a new music group? The Piston owner could offer "Charlie And The Others" a recording contract if they agree never to wear the Piston uniform again. What do you think Piston fans?

[cool breeze]

I know that some of you really like this guy but some of my friends have indicated that he has not been a team orientated type individual at his other stops in the NBA. Won't this type of player potentially cause issues regarding team chemistry if he makes the team but isn't good enough to get on the court much? There is one reason that he is going to the Piston's training camp and that is coach Frank. Frank has coached him and must know something about him that some of the other Williams supporters on this board know. If you know this guy, please give us more information about his upside.

[Oracle]

For some reason, I've always liked Jonny Flynn...probably from his Syracuse days.

I'd take Flynn over Bynum based on age and potential.

Another good move by Dumars.

What's that sound?

It's Bynum quaking in his boots because Joe is obviously looking for a new young backup point guard, and I agree with you Murph, I think Flynn is likely better for us going forward.

Bynum is servicable, especially when he behaves like a point, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Flynn has potential(lottery pick) and youth(23 years old).

This is getting interesting, because IMO, TWill has too many "if's" associated with his game and health!

[merc]

It's looking more like Joe is willing to go with youth over experienced scrubs... so what happens if we have all our players at 26 years or less?... most teams have at least one guy that can be the settling influence and help the kids recognize situations... this is something that Tay is good at.. say what you want but the guy is adept at the intellectual aspects of the game.
Of course if the right deal comes along you take it... but I'm not in the dump Tay at all cost mode.
Since he's not expiring how would he accept playing 20 minutes and helping the kids grow "smartly"?

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