Two facts are clear to me - Washington and the Bucks would beat our Piston team 9 out of 10 times because they have superior players

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Re: Two facts are clear to me - Washington and the Bucks would beat our Piston team 9 out of 10 times because they have superior players

Post  cool breeze on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:39 pm

BallinD wrote:
cool breeze wrote:Van Gundy is dancing around the real issue. The starters he has selected do not play smart together and that affects what happens with the 2nd unit."

I had a flash the other day watching the Milwaukee game that we had one, maybe two high bball IQ players on the whole team.

Cool: It seems that everyone is blowing out this Piston team and our players are not sandbagging. They are trying to play hard. The truth is that Van Gundy has acquired too many players who are want to be shooters. Nobody in the starting unit are facilitator types who love to set screens, move without the basketball, rebound, and play help defense. Too many players do not have the ability to recognise situations on the floor that is is critical in Van Gundy's offensive system. That means they do not have high basketball IQs like our heroes from the past like Zeke who was a master of basketball opportunities that the defensive gives you. Hats off to the job that the Bucks head coach has done. The Bucks have done a great job to find those high basketball IQ pl

Forum: Who do you think are the high bball IQ players. I think maybe Leuer and Harris, maybe Beno is next.  KCP is coming, but he has a long way to go.

What do you guys think??

I'm trying to figure who we keep, and who to make available.


Cool:  Detroit can no longer compete with teams that have developed their high draft picks. Stan has tried hard to build a team with leftover vets that other teams have decided were either chemistry killers or just don't have what it takes to beat superior basketball players on other teams. Tinkering with the lineup to take Harris out of the starting unit when other NBA teams recognize that he is the best player on the Piston team and gear their defenses to stop him is insane.

Zeke was one of the commentators on NBA TV last night and he noted that if you are the best scorer on a team, it usually causes problems if the coach places you on the bench in favor of an inferior player. I haven't seen that Morris can guard small forwards especially the really good NBA small forwards. Morris has difficulty guarding power forwards. Lauer is not a supreme defensive player but he might be more effective depending on match ups than Morris at power forward. But is Morris a better defender than Harris at the small forward position. Van Gundy must think that he hit the jackpot when he signed Morris. And Morris sure was effective last season. But now other NBA teams have scouted the Pistons and force Morris to jack up that long range jump shot. He is not a great penetrator. Harris can be effective off the dribble.

And of course there is the other option to play Stanley Johnson at small forward instead of shooting guard. Johnson a much better defender of small forwards than either Morris or Harris. But Johnson has no rhythm or confidence so far with his jump shot. One thing Johnson can do is break down the defense and pass effectively. Johnson is also a player who looks to set screens in the paint to open things up for other players.

I agree that he is showing signs of playing the right way and playing with force.


The current status of the Detroit Pistons is that they are a high lottery team at best. Philly looks like they have more promising players and they did blow out the Pistons on their last meeting.

The really funny thing in all of this is Van Gundy's statements that "he is at a loss over Pistons' fluctuations". Andre Drummond is not a smart basketball player either on offense or defense. He is the franchise player. The rest of the vets are rejects from other teams.  The team chemistry is clearly horrible.

BallinD I am glad that you brought up the fact that Beno has a high basketball IQ much superior to either Jackson or Smith. He has older legs. The other point guards have bigger contracts and it seems clear that SVG is playing his contracts so he not doing the right thing to improve the team. Harris and Lauer are not superior defenders but I agree that they can make more competent decisions on offense when they have the ball in their hands as opposed to most of their teammates. This is the NBA and to win I believe that you have to have exceptionally smart point guards. How long have we fans been waiting for top tier point guards?

I hate to bash the players and am tired of writing negative opinions on our players. Imagine trying to coach so many players who have limited energy available to play solid defense. That would make me boil to go through practice and all the crap that a coach must tolerate with players and then to watch them fail to screen out on the defensive boards or for the guards to not get involved in screening out opposing players to get those long rebounds. Imagine going through a long practice where you are running offensive plays involving screening and moving without the basketball and then sit and watch your point guards over penetrate and never even make one pass in the half court offense. No wonder Pope is running down the court and launching a 3 pointer with nobody around him. Then how about Andre Drummond showing his lack of understanding of defensive rotations or what the strengths of his assigned man might be from game to game. His man makes 4 shots from the free throw line and is not a quick driver but Andre decides to continue to stand 4 feet away from guys like Gasol. And how in hell does Andre manage to be standing too far under the basket when an opposing shot goes up? I know the answer. Andre Drummond didn't learn how to play defense as a kid. His brain is working too slow. This is much like an adult like me trying to learn how to ski while small kids who are 8 years old fly by me with perfect balance. The ground work was never done to make several of our players on this Piston team able to understand and react in a timely manner.

I am glad that you agree that many of our players lack the quality of having a high basketball IQ. One thing that Stanley Johnson was always known for as a high school and college player was his high basketball IQ. He played all five positions as his teams won 4 state championships during his high school career. He played really smart defense as a college player making key steals in critical moments of tames. When I see him now, I know something is really wrong on this Piston team. Great NBA point guards have the ability to know all the strengths and weaknesses of their teammates. Those special players know how to bring out the positives of those players with their ability and skill as leaders. It appears that our point guards who get playing time are still in the learning phase trying to develop their own personal skills. Is the coach ignoring this? His he considered playing a point forward style and eliminating some of the errors that we see on both ends of the floor coming from both Jackson and Smith? How many times have we seen both of those point guards get beat back door and then coach Van Gundy throwing up his arms before calling a timeout? The players are not learning from their mistakes and they are not young players. I would rather see players like Johnson and Ellenson make those errors and have hope for a better future in years to come.

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BBall IQ. Very Good Post Cool

Post  BallinD on Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:17 pm

cool breeze wrote:Van Gundy is dancing around the real issue. The starters he has selected do not play smart together and that affects what happens with the 2nd unit."

I had a flash the other day watching the Milwaukee game that we had one, maybe two high bball IQ players on the whole team.

Cool: It seems that everyone is blowing out this Piston team and our players are not sandbagging. They are trying to play hard. The truth is that Van Gundy has acquired too many players who are want to be shooters. Nobody in the starting unit are facilitator types who love to set screens, move without the basketball, rebound, and play help defense. Too many players do not have the ability to recognise situations on the floor that is is critical in Van Gundy's offensive system. That means they do not have high basketball IQs like our heroes from the past like Zeke who was a master of basketball opportunities that the defensive gives you. Hats off to the job that the Bucks head coach has done. The Bucks have done a great job to find those high basketball IQ pl

Forum: Who do you think are the high bball IQ players. I think maybe Leuer and Harris, maybe Beno is next.  KCP is coming, but he has a long way to go.

What do you guys think??

I'm trying to figure who we keep, and who to make available.


Cool:  Detroit can no longer compete with teams that have developed their high draft picks. Stan has tried hard to build a team with leftover vets that other teams have decided were either chemistry killers or just don't have what it takes to beat superior basketball players on other teams. Tinkering with the lineup to take Harris out of the starting unit when other NBA teams recognize that he is the best player on the Piston team and gear their defenses to stop him is insane.

Zeke was one of the commentators on NBA TV last night and he noted that if you are the best scorer on a team, it usually causes problems if the coach places you on the bench in favor of an inferior player. I haven't seen that Morris can guard small forwards especially the really good NBA small forwards. Morris has difficulty guarding power forwards. Lauer is not a supreme defensive player but he might be more effective depending on match ups than Morris at power forward. But is Morris a better defender than Harris at the small forward position. Van Gundy must think that he hit the jackpot when he signed Morris. And Morris sure was effective last season. But now other NBA teams have scouted the Pistons and force Morris to jack up that long range jump shot. He is not a great penetrator. Harris can be effective off the dribble.

And of course there is the other option to play Stanley Johnson at small forward instead of shooting guard. Johnson a much better defender of small forwards than either Morris or Harris. But Johnson has no rhythm or confidence so far with his jump shot. One thing Johnson can do is break down the defense and pass effectively. Johnson is also a player who looks to set screens in the paint to open things up for other players.

I agree that he is showing signs of playing the right way and playing with force.


The current status of the Detroit Pistons is that they are a high lottery team at best. Philly looks like they have more promising players and they did blow out the Pistons on their last meeting.

The really funny thing in all of this is Van Gundy's statements that "he is at a loss over Pistons' fluctuations". Andre Drummond is not a smart basketball player either on offense or defense. He is the franchise player. The rest of the vets are rejects from other teams.  The team chemistry is clearly horrible.
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Two facts are clear to me - Washington and the Bucks would beat our Piston team 9 out of 10 times because they have superior players

Post  cool breeze on Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:21 pm

Van Gundy is dancing around the real issue. The starters he has selected do not play smart together and that affects what happens with the 2nd unit. Detroit can no longer compete with teams that have developed their high draft picks. Stan has tried hard to build a team with leftover vets that other teams have decided were either chemistry killers or just don't have what it takes to beat superior basketball players on other teams. Tinkering with the lineup to take Harris out of the starting unit when other NBA teams recognize that he is the best player on the Piston team and gear their defenses to stop him is insane. It is OK to start Leuer at power forward. But when it comes to benching Harris and allowing Morris to remain as the starter at small forward, something is really wrong. Zeke was one of the commentators on NBA TV last night and he noted that if you are the best scorer on a team, it usually causes problems if the coach places you on the bench in favor of an inferior player. I haven't seen that Morris can guard small forwards especially the really good NBA small forwards. Morris has difficulty guarding power forwards. Lauer is not a supreme defensive player but he might be more effective depending on match ups than Morris at power forward. But is Morris a better defender than Harris at the small forward position. Van Gundy must think that he hit the jackpot when he signed Morris. And Morris sure was effective last season. But now other NBA teams have scouted the Pistons and force Morris to jack up that long range jump shot. He is not a great penetrator. Harris can be effective off the dribble. And of course there is the other option to play Stanley Johnson at small forward instead of shooting guard. Johnson a much better defender of small forwards than either Morris or Harris. But Johnson has no rhythm or confidence so far with his jump shot. One thing Johnson can do is break down the defense and pass effectively. Johnson is also a player who looks to set screens in the paint to open things up for other players. Put any of the Bucks players who kicked Detroit's ass last night in a role Johnson is currently struggling in and they would also struggle. You don't touch the basketball when you are on the weak side. The point guards play only one side of the basketball court. I have said all along that if SVG came to Stanley Johnson and said don't worry I believe that you are a key to the success of our basketball team and I am going to stick with you as you make mistakes and adapt to the NBA game. then it is my belief that Johnson would be performing with much more confidence and would become a team leader. Detroit has some players who currently think they are leaders who have never been a team leader in their entire lives.

I believe Detroit is one of the worst teams in the NBA. The point guard play may be the worst in the NBA. While Jackson is improving at least on defense, I see Ish Smith as perhaps the worst point guard in the NBA currently performing as a rotation player. Last night Van Gundy decided to bring in Smith to play with Jackson. But Smith was playing the 2 guard instead of Jackson. I could understand that the coach might want to see how Jackson performed at the off guard but it is insane to play Smith as a 2 guard. But that is what happened. It was Smith standing on the baseline instead of Pope or Johnson. Smith could not guard a 2 guard to save his life. And he is not a good shooter. But then in the 4th quarter Smith assumed his role as the backup point guard during the 2nd units big comeback. The comeback had nothing to do with Smith. But the other players were effective is cutting the Bucks lead going on nice run. Then the Bucks called a timeout and when the game resumed, for some reason Smith when off his rocker and turned the basketball over on 4 straight possessions. You could see the change come over the other players Smith was playing with at the time. Smith just had to speed up the game to the point that he was completely out of control and driving into 3 opposing players in the paint. That gets you a seat on any bench in the USA if you are playing on a college team. Of course Van Gundy did take him out but it was too late and time to throw in the towel.

The current status of the Detroit Pistons is that they are a high lottery team at best. Philly looks like they have more promising players and they did blow out the Pistons on their last meeting. It seems that everyone is blowing out this Piston team and our players are not sandbagging. They are trying to play hard. The truth is that Van Gundy has acquired too many players who are want to be shooters. Nobody in the starting unit are facilitator types who love to set screens, move without the basketball, rebound, and play help defense. Too many players do not have the ability to recognise situations on the floor that is is critical in Van Gundy's offensive system. That means they do not have high basketball IQs like our heroes from the past like Zeke who was a master of basketball opportunities that the defensive gives you. Hats off to the job that the Bucks head coach has done. The Bucks have done a great job to find those high basketball IQ players who play extremely hard on both ends. That is a team that was fun to watch unlike our Pistons. The really funny thing in all of this is Van Gundy's statements that "he is at a loss over Pistons' fluctuations". Andre Drummond is not a smart basketball player either on offense or defense. He is the franchise player. The rest of the vets are rejects from other teams. Then they have some draftees who might some day become solid basketball players but it is doubtful that will happen if they remain on this Piston team. The team leaders will prevent any step forward by the young draftees. The team chemistry is clearly horrible.

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