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Hey Pete

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:32 pm

I've tried several times, but can't connect with the web site you supplied; I'd like to read that article, so help me if you can. Sad 
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:07 pm

merc wrote:My expectations may have been lower than most (guesstimate 36 wins)... this start is hardly a surprise considering schedule & lack of PT together... throw in a new system (good or bad).... Not sure how anyone can draw long term conclusions based on what we have seen so far.

IMO we had the right starting lineup... let's give them a minute to gel
Merc, do you mean the starting lineup with Chauncey, or without?
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Stuff

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:04 pm

@lemon - Clarification.
 
"2. Drummond isn't capable of pulling 30 minutes... yet: So stop trying! Cut Drummonds minutes until his conditioning gets better, which should make him more effective when he is on the floor. This also has the side benefit of having Smith & Monroe playing the positions that they know best. IMO, Monroe just needs to pick up weight and build strength and be a center if he can't get a midrange game going.
That has to be one of the quickest give up ever. R U entering panic mode." - Both of us 
 
I think you're over reacting just a bit. There is absolutely no timeline associated with the word "IF". So there can't a "give up" or "panic" in anything I said.
 
@PistonPete & @Seb - Thanks guys!
 
@Seb - I noticed that Josh's arms looked a bit small from what I was used to, but I didn't say anything! I wonder if he lost weight to gain speed for the SF position?
 
Short on time, but GO PISTONS!!!
 
We will beat the Knicks tonight, and badly!!!
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Re: FORUM

Post  merc on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:45 pm

My expectations may have been lower than most (guesstimate 36 wins)... this start is hardly a surprise considering schedule & lack of PT together... throw in a new system (good or bad).... Not sure how anyone can draw long term conclusions based on what we have seen so far.

IMO we had the right starting lineup... let's give them a minute to gel
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Luigi & Mitchell

Post  PistonPete on Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Many of us have been saying Luigi should get more minutes, but others say he is not ready, Why???

In limited minutes, I tell you he has looked damn sight better than Singler. Eye Test! According the excellent article: http://wagesofwins.com/2013/11/19/shouldnt-the-pistons-be-better/, Singler leads the team statistically in a drop off from last year to this one, based on Win Shares. I honestly do not see him doing anything out on the floor to distinguish himself, and I look hard.

On the other hand I saw Datome chasing a quick and streaky Nick Young around and he mostly stayed in front of him and stayed with him in limited minutes. Was he rewarded with more minutes? NO. Singler is passing the glue around and Cheeks and others appear to be sniffing it and believing the hype. He is not rebounding and he is not scoring, so....

Why not try Datome and Mitchell. Mitchell appears to have the athleticism to be another Worm. It cant be much worse than playing Singler and JJ to try these guys out.

Also, let's try and try hard to stagger the big three more. Advanced stats say playing 2 out of 3 on the floor at the same time yeilds much better results than all three. The least used combination is Drums and Moose. Time to try a few things.

BTW, maybe its chemistry, but the only Piston playing better this year than last year is Drums, according to Win Shares. Well, except Bynum, but the stats may say that, but the eye test does not corroborate that data.
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Luigi & Mitchell

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:02 pm

Sissy, m'man, how the hell are you? You bring up a point that's overlooked, as far as I'm concerned, and that's Cheeks has lost focus; when the shot caller has lost focus, what's a team to do? He talks about favoring veterans over rookies, but he ignores Datome; this is a 10 year professional veteran who Joe went half way around the world to sign, coming off a MVP season, and Cheeks sits him in favor of Singler?! There's no way in hell I'm going to believe that Singler's production is greater than what Datome's contributions would have been, given the same amount of time on the court!! Cheeks just got here, what does he know about who to trust and who not to? What is this fanatical trust in Singler based on? I'm willing to bet that Greg Popovich wouldn't make the same decision on those two players, and San Antonio wanted to sign Datome, but he came to Detroit because he thought there'd be an opportunity for him to play. But Cheeks ain't no "Pop" and that's why Detroit's league standings is dropping like a rock, while the Spurs remain one of the top teams in the league.

Why can't Tony Mitchell get any playing time? Cheeks managed to find playing time for 4 PG's, but he can't get a SF/PF on the floor? 4 PG's!! Jennings, Billups, Stuckey, and Bynum were regular rotation players until two of them came up lame. Jerebko is as ineffective as can be, and so is Singler, so why not get some minutes for Mitchell? Certainly Mitchell or Datome can play before those two clowns, and like I said, Cheeks just got here so what the hell does he know about these players? Over half the roster is new, so what's his focus on? It doesn't appear to be winning.
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In defense of our interior offense

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:36 pm

Sebastian, I know you like Andre Drummond, as do I, and being realistic, he's on course to be the player we thought he could be; he's a work in progress, not the finished product. I genuinely like what he brings to the game (rebounding and clean-up baskets; double-double machine). His FT's, shot-blocking, and foot work can use some refining, but for a 20 year old with less than a full year of competitive basketball (College or pro) under his belt, he's doing damn good. He ain't the problem, he's part of the solution.

Greg Monroe is the best post player we have on the team; there's no one with better footwork in the post than the Moose. It's good to talk about him in need of developing a 15-18 foot jump shot, but who on this team has shown to be a reliable jump shooter from anywhere? Not only is he an outstanding post player, but he's an improving rebounder also; potentially a double-double machine. So far Monroe and Drummond haven't been tripping over each other in the paint; my biggest bitch with them is they aren't getting nowhere near as many defensive rebounds as I'd like them to.

Josh Smith is always talked about playing the position he was typecast into playing in ATL, out of desperation, and that's PF, but he's a SF!! His size, skillset, and our need, demands he play SF in Detroit. Say what you will, but in the few games he's played for us at SF so far, he's put up some numbers that Tayshaun Prince didn't in his entire career as a Piston!!! As long as he continues stuffing the stat sheet like he does, he can shoot as many 3's as Cheeks allow, because at the end of the day he's going to get better. When we return to championship contention it won't be in spite of, but because of the play of these three big men.
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Luigi & Mitchell

Post  Sissy1946 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:03 pm

deusXango wrote:....what do you think about inserting Datome into the starting lineup, now that KCP is there? If their shots start falling and Jennings shot is on, Monroe and Smith are a load inside; the 2nd unit, led by Drummond, Mitchell, and Stuckey could be brutal on opposing teams, don't you think? Or not! I'd love to hear fresh ideas.
Deus: I'd like that if he did but Cheeks won't do that, it seems like he's lost all focus in what to do with Luigi, it's almost like Cheeks has ignored Luigi, why did they acquire him? He's a shooter & scorer, he scored ten point that one game & then Cheeks has hardly used him, it doesn't make sense, we need scoring so he leaves him on the bench, I would love for Mitchell to get more playing time also.
The thing that's bothering me is the Big 3 playing together, they can't hit their free throws sometimes they seem to be getting in each others way, maybe we need to start Smith & Drummond & have Monroe or Drummond come off the bench, we need more scoring out there & if Datome & KCP aren't going to play there together then they need to make a big trade for a scorer, there has to be more scoring out there to start the game & don't get me started on that inferior defense.
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By the numbers

Post  deusXango on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:51 pm

"Smith, the long-time Hawks player and local product, ended up signing a four-year, $54 million contract with the Pistons in July. The deal with the Pistons was below the maximum he could have received from the Hawks. He could have signed a four-year deal with another team for a maximum of $70 million. The Hawks could have signed him to a five-year deal for a maximum of $94.3 million."-Yahoo Sports

I use these figures to demonstrate how far wrong fans can go when anticipating the outcome of professional business dealings (mainly due to putting trust in a self-serving media); locally there was a groundswell of naysayers for signing Josh Smith, as a FA, because he was demanding a max deal and he wasn't worth it. The facts of today paint a different picture.

Today there's a contingent of supporters for trading Greg Monroe, because he'll want a max deal and he's not worth it; there's no way we can get fair value for Monroe in a trade and the majority of the trade scenarios spoken of are so ridiculous, it's not even laughable. If ever there was a case where a team must hold onto a player, this is it. #1 we're not 10 games deep into the season and have no idea which way his value will go by seasons end. #2 it's never been considered that Monroe could be his own man and in spite of what his agent (who's working for Monroe, not the other way around) suggests, may want a deal comparable to Smith's, so the Big 3 of Detroit can remain intact; this is where CV's worth, as an expiring contract, to us becomes apparent.

Regardless of what we look like now, what will Drummond, Monroe, Smith, KCP, and Jennings look like a year from now? If Stuckey continues to improve and is resigned, and we get a real good look at Datome & Mitchell in this years competition (and they can really play), what will we look like next year? Whatever Monroe's contract calls for, it won't be money wasted, but money invested.
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Josh Smith ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:27 pm

Pistons Pals has anyone taken a close look at Josh Smith since he has began wearing the #6 Pistons jersey. J-Smoove may be a bit too small (6'9", 225 lbs.) to play the power forward position, full time.

Josh has appeared to have lost a few .lbs and a little muscle mass, since signing with OUR Pistons. I still like Josh as a primary SF option. If Moose could become more reliable from 15'-18' away from the basket, thus allowing Josh to do more work closer to the hoop, WE would be okay on the offensive side of the floor.

Moose's true value to OUR roster is that he is a better center than a power forward. The thing that Moose has to begin correcting with tonight's game is his 15'-18' foot shot and his free throw shooting, because Dre becomes a liability in close games before the 2:00 minute mark of 4th quarters.

If Moose doesn't start improving his 15'-18' shot and his free throw, starting tonight through Dec. 15 (the first day that 2013 free agents can be traded), then Joe needs to seriously find an equitable to better value trade.

C'mon Pistons, when tonight ... please!!!!


Last edited by Sebastian on Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Advice for Cheeks

Post  lemonpen on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:41 pm

Oracle wrote:1. Pull a Flip: When was the last time that we went zone on an opponent? I'm sure we must have done it once or twice, but I can't remember it happening once, which means it's rare.
Might have to sub out Moose or AD, otherwise they will have to cover a corner shooter.

 
What I have seen is our guys falling for every pick and roll under the sun, and running around getting out of position!
All but KCP

 
Flip had an array of really inventive matchup zones that took advantage of athleticism on one end, and extended the ability of slower players to defend.
 
Cheeks never appears to change much, and they keep doing the same thing hoping for a different result... STOP!!!
But, are their efforts to do the right things just coming out wrong.


2. Drummond isn't capable of pulling 30 minutes... yet: So stop trying! Cut Drummonds minutes until his conditioning gets better, which should make him more effective when he is on the floor. This also has the side benefit of having Smith & Monroe playing the positions that they know best. IMO, Monroe just needs to pick up weight and build strength and be a center if he can't get a midrange game going.
That has to be one of the quickest give up ever. R U entering panic mode.

 
3. The first half of the Lakers game was amazing: They played to the strength of this club... scoring in the paint, with crisp passing, ball movement, and athletic plays. Insist on ball movement and demand that Jennings be a pass first guard unless all other options fail, or he's as open for a layup!
 
4. Stop looking for things you can't find: You're not going to find the lineups that work if you keep rigging the game. This is something that needs to evolve, but you can't get there by looking for a 9 man lineup until you've done the right amount of experimenting.
 
Stop picking winners and losers of PT, and start letting a players play determine PT! I understand that vets should get first shot, but when you're losing like this, you have a unique opportunity to further experiment and break the locker room code!
 
Give Datome a real shot at PT, and for Christ's sake, get that athletic monster Mitchell on the court and let's see how he operates.
 
5. Remember who you are: You're the fu#king coach of the Detroit Pistons, the big Cheese, the head honcho, the big kahuna, and on top of that, you're one of the great championship guards! Stop being afraid of a Detroit media that sh!ts their pants when Dumars looks mean at them.
 
This is not the philly media, these dudes are toothless and nutless! They'll carry your jock strap anywhere you want, so treat them like the chumps that they are!
 
6. Teams are getting up for the Pistons: Wake up, your press clippings are preceding you! Teams want to beat the NBA darling frontcourt! It's big news if you read the LA papers, they're high off of beating the vaunted Pistons(of course we take turns tormenting each others franchise)! That means that not only do we need to match their intensity, we need to beat it!
 
7. Finally: Jennings and KCP are your starting guards! Make no apologies for this and run with them until they get it right! Stuckey is awesome off of the bench because he's beating the hell out of those 2nd unit scrubs.
 
Singler is your ace in the hole, but he's a glue guy, and until the team starts working right, he won't, so his PT should be limited as you experiment with other options. You can and should go back to him later.
 
Unless you're showcasing JJ, play Mitchell at either backup PF or SF... ditto Datome. Remember that Garbage Time = Bynum Time, and you can't go wrong.
 
Lastly, tell Joe Dumars that you're the coach and to shut the fu#k up talking to your guard about how to play the game... that's your fu#king job.

DAMN SKIPPY !!!!!! That was the most disturbing thing I've heard this season. Mo ought to march into JD's office slamming the door behind him. Mr. Jennings gets a talking to immediately after.
 
Stand up to the bully because if you don't they'll all go to Joe for everything, and you'll find yourself searching for your Johnson in the palace latrine, but Joe will have it!
 
BTW, they're going to fire your ass unless you win, but if you win, they have no power over you, so listen to them, but do whatever you have to do to win, then you can get any job you want if they start acting stupid!
An additional 2c worth: Give your vaulted front court no help tonight. Do not abandon the 3pt line even once.
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Sad isn't it ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:22 pm

From the DBB Blog (sbnation.com), the following is the opening of an article posted at Detroit Bad Boys Blog (sbnation.com):

It's really depressing that, eight years after beating the Pistons in the 2005 NBA finals, the Spurs are still popping up at No. 1 in NBA Power Rankings and the Pistons are trying to discover some kind of identity and at least move into mediocrity...

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/11/18/5120710/nba-power-rankings-detroit-pistons-defense-terrible

I have to admit, the continued success of the Spurs makes me sad when following, so passionately, OUR Pistons.Sad Sad Sad 
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Yo Oracle ...

Post  Sebastian on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:51 am

Oracle wrote:1. Pull a Flip: When was the last time that we went zone on an opponent? I'm sure we must have done it once or twice, but I can't remember it happening once, which means it's rare.
 
What I have seen is our guys falling for every pick and roll under the sun, and running around getting out of position!
 
Flip had an array of really inventive matchup zones that took advantage of athleticism on one end, and extended the ability of slower players to defend.
 
Cheeks never appears to change much, and they keep doing the same thing hoping for a different result... STOP!!!
 
2. Drummond isn't capable of pulling 30 minutes... yet: So stop trying! Cut Drummonds minutes until his conditioning gets better, which should make him more effective when he is on the floor. This also has the side benefit of having Smith & Monroe playing the positions that they know best. IMO, Monroe just needs to pick up weight and build strength and be a center if he can't get a midrange game going.
 
3. The first half of the Lakers game was amazing: They played to the strength of this club... scoring in the paint, with crisp passing, ball movement, and athletic plays. Insist on ball movement and demand that Jennings be a pass first guard unless all other options fail, or he's as open for a layup!
 
4. Stop looking for things you can't find: You're not going to find the lineups that work if you keep rigging the game. This is something that needs to evolve, but you can't get there by looking for a 9 man lineup until you've done the right amount of experimenting.
 
Stop picking winners and losers of PT, and start letting a players play determine PT! I understand that vets should get first shot, but when you're losing like this, you have a unique opportunity to further experiment and break the locker room code!
 
Give Datome a real shot at PT, and for Christ's sake, get that athletic monster Mitchell on the court and let's see how he operates.
 
5. Remember who you are: You're the fu#king coach of the Detroit Pistons, the big Cheese, the head honcho, the big kahuna, and on top of that, you're one of the great championship guards! Stop being afraid of a Detroit media that sh!ts their pants when Dumars looks mean at them.
 
This is not the philly media, these dudes are toothless and nutless! They'll carry your jock strap anywhere you want, so treat them like the chumps that they are!
 
6. Teams are getting up for the Pistons: Wake up, your press clippings are preceding you! Teams want to beat the NBA darling frontcourt! It's big news if you read the LA papers, they're high off of beating the vaunted Pistons(of course we take turns tormenting each others franchise)! That means that not only do we need to match their intensity, we need to beat it!
 
7. Finally: Jennings and KCP are your starting guards! Make no apologies for this and run with them until they get it right! Stuckey is awesome off of the bench because he's beating the hell out of those 2nd unit scrubs.
 
Singler is your ace in the hole, but he's a glue guy, and until the team starts working right, he won't, so his PT should be limited as you experiment with other options. You can and should go back to him later.
 
Unless you're showcasing JJ, play Mitchell at either backup PF or SF... ditto Datome. Remember that Garbage Time = Bynum Time, and you can't go wrong.
 
Lastly, tell Joe Dumars that you're the coach and to shut the fu#k up talking to your guard about how to play the game... that's your fu#king job.
 
Stand up to the bully because if you don't they'll all go to Joe for everything, and you'll find yourself searching for your Johnson in the palace latrine, but Joe will have it!
 
BTW, they're going to fire your ass unless you win, but if you win, they have no power over you, so listen to them, but do whatever you have to do to win, then you can get any job you want if they start acting stupid!
Sho' you right, my man!!! I agree 100% with each drop of advice that you've posted for Mo'. Now if WE can only get these instructions to him, somehow, because if not Mo' will quickly devolve into Mo' McGoo, who he has damn near become.





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Oracle, You've Got The Formula

Post  PistonPete on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:29 am

I wish your Oracular vision meant you can see what will come to pass. If Cheeks followed points 1-7 we would win 50 games. He can start with tonite and get Datome in there, Mitchell in there, Singler out, JJ out, run the P&R to death with Smith, keep the lobs going to Drummond.

Start running some high pick & rolls with Moose and Smith, alternate between that and P&R with Jennings and Smith. Let Datome find his shot. Let KCP slash and take kickouts. Make Mello work guarding Smoove or Datome. Hopefully we will have garbage time and see Bynumite doing his thing as we trounce the chump knicks.

Its time to see if Mitchell can guard anybody. Can he be a Worm someday??

JR Smith goes 3-16.

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Wise: My humble advice for Cheeks...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:03 am

1. Pull a Flip: When was the last time that we went zone on an opponent? I'm sure we must have done it once or twice, but I can't remember it happening once, which means it's rare.
 
What I have seen is our guys falling for every pick and roll under the sun, and running around getting out of position!
 
Flip had an array of really inventive matchup zones that took advantage of athleticism on one end, and extended the ability of slower players to defend.
 
Cheeks never appears to change much, and they keep doing the same thing hoping for a different result... STOP!!!
 
2. Drummond isn't capable of pulling 30 minutes... yet: So stop trying! Cut Drummonds minutes until his conditioning gets better, which should make him more effective when he is on the floor. This also has the side benefit of having Smith & Monroe playing the positions that they know best. IMO, Monroe just needs to pick up weight and build strength and be a center if he can't get a midrange game going.
 
3. The first half of the Lakers game was amazing: They played to the strength of this club... scoring in the paint, with crisp passing, ball movement, and athletic plays. Insist on ball movement and demand that Jennings be a pass first guard unless all other options fail, or he's as open for a layup!
 
4. Stop looking for things you can't find: You're not going to find the lineups that work if you keep rigging the game. This is something that needs to evolve, but you can't get there by looking for a 9 man lineup until you've done the right amount of experimenting.
 
Stop picking winners and losers of PT, and start letting a players play determine PT! I understand that vets should get first shot, but when you're losing like this, you have a unique opportunity to further experiment and break the locker room code!
 
Give Datome a real shot at PT, and for Christ's sake, get that athletic monster Mitchell on the court and let's see how he operates.
 
5. Remember who you are: You're the fu#king coach of the Detroit Pistons, the big Cheese, the head honcho, the big kahuna, and on top of that, you're one of the great championship guards! Stop being afraid of a Detroit media that sh!ts their pants when Dumars looks mean at them.
 
This is not the philly media, these dudes are toothless and nutless! They'll carry your jock strap anywhere you want, so treat them like the chumps that they are!
 
6. Teams are getting up for the Pistons: Wake up, your press clippings are preceding you! Teams want to beat the NBA darling frontcourt! It's big news if you read the LA papers, they're high off of beating the vaunted Pistons(of course we take turns tormenting each others franchise)! That means that not only do we need to match their intensity, we need to beat it!
 
7. Finally: Jennings and KCP are your starting guards! Make no apologies for this and run with them until they get it right! Stuckey is awesome off of the bench because he's beating the hell out of those 2nd unit scrubs.
 
Singler is your ace in the hole, but he's a glue guy, and until the team starts working right, he won't, so his PT should be limited as you experiment with other options. You can and should go back to him later.
 
Unless you're showcasing JJ, play Mitchell at either backup PF or SF... ditto Datome. Remember that Garbage Time = Bynum Time, and you can't go wrong.
 
Lastly, tell Joe Dumars that you're the coach and to shut the fu#k up talking to your guard about how to play the game... that's your fu#king job.
 
Stand up to the bully because if you don't they'll all go to Joe for everything, and you'll find yourself searching for your Johnson in the palace latrine, but Joe will have it!
 
BTW, they're going to fire your ass unless you win, but if you win, they have no power over you, so listen to them, but do whatever you have to do to win, then you can get any job you want if they start acting stupid!
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Stuff

Post  Murph on Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:43 am

FlyDog wrote:27 **** combo Guards.  Our "PG" gets into twitter wars with JR Smith.
You have to admit, this twitter war with JR Smith, and all of Jennings' other personal antics like getting cold cocked by that LA rapper, are a little disturbing.

Let me put it this way.  If Charlie V had gotten into a twitter war with JR Smith, this forum would have ripped Charlie up one side and down the other.



On Cheeks, I always give our coaches a one year grace period before I start ripping into them.  I gave Curry a year.  I gave Q-Ball a year Kuester.  And I gave Lil Larry a year...before I broke out the pitch forks and torches.  I wasn't in favor of hiring Cheeks in the first place, but now that he's our coach, let's give the man a chance.



I like the way Singler plays and what he does for the team.  But I agree, Singler has got to up his production when he's on the floor.  He can't just float around the perimeter.   He has got to put up points or grap some rebounds or do something productive when he's in the game.


Come on Pistons!  Take it to the Knicks tonight.
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Questions

Post  WTF on Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:54 am

It's about how you work with the team that you have, and that's not working at all! - Oracle

Okay so exactly how is it Cheeks get max results out of the roster? Now before you answer don't ignore or dismiss the obvious flaws with the players.

Q1: How do Cheeks get Drummond to defend better at the rim? He all ready told him to be more aggressive so how do he fix that?

Q2: How do Cheeks get Singler and JJ to stay on their man and stop dropping into the post to provide help and getting burned on the perimeter?

Really it's easy to blame a coach and ignore all the things the players are doing wrong to cause these losses. Cheeks has tried every possible roster combination and none of it is really working (bench wise). Cheeks plays all the players everyone thinks should be on the court
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Use the same logic you use on the players...

Post  Oracle on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:44 am

WISEFAN wrote:It's not the coach it's the players, I'm not saying Cheeks been perfect but you can hardly blame him for the poor execution of the players.   Cheeks doesn't shoot FT's, he doesn't defend the rim, and he's not shooting and missing 3's and failing to defend the perimeter.    

Cheeks is limited with what he has to work with beyond the top 6 players in his rotation and even half of them are not the brightest light bulb.  Drummond is underachieving, Monroe gets lazy, and Jennings in confused because he talks to Joe.  Before Cheeks was hired the world knew Monroe needed to improve his Mid-range game and his FT shooting and he hasn't.    Drummond spent the summer with Hakeem and you can't tell I'm seriously starting to question his heart as much as I question Monroe's.    

Sorry but some tend to way overstate what we have on this team (Singler, JJ, Bynum's and so on) perhaps I should include KCP in the mix as well. The thinking is that we have a **** load of talent when we really don't only two players on this team are playing consistent and that's Josh and Stuckey and oddly they've both been our best 3 point shooters.  

Drummond should be 40 minutes on the court every game but Cheeks has to pull and sit him constantly, now what more can Cheeks do?  Cheeks has told Monroe on several occasions he need to work on his mid-range game, that in doing so it make both him and the team better and he hasn't what more can Cheeks do.  His PG is being instruct by the GM to do his own thing what is Cheeks to do?  Cheeks has to play JJ he'll better off if he was coaching Radio but what more can he do. He plays Singler a player over rated, he has a retard and underachiever that makes up half of his bench.  

Somehow we think we have a Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh so we can fill in the blanks with whatever and if it don't work the coach is the blame.  We have nice pieces we don't have All Star and Super Star on our roster.  
After all these years, you keep saying the same thing!

Then you go on to state how many minutes so and so should play, and that our talent isn't all that good, but your prediction of wins says you speak with forked tounge Smile

How good does the talent have to be to grab the 8th spot in the east? Seriously, let's get back to reality!

All of your complaints, mine, and most everybody elses stem from one source... the effing coach!

Don't tell me he has little to work with, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

It's about how you work with the team that you have, and that's not working at all!

The difference between what you're saying, that it's not Cheeks fault, and what I'm saying, is that it's mostly Cheeks fault, is this!

Even though I say it's Cheeks fault, that by no means is saying he's not going to get it right! In fact I do believe that he will right the ship, but it's going to take some hard work and tinkering with how he uses the resources at his command.

When you say that it's not him, and ignore/deny that the problems are structural, and not the individual players, you basically hide your head in the sand and guarantee that the problems can't be fixed!

It's rarely the players, and especially in our case, it's ABSOLUTELY beyond a doubt not the players. It's the system, and until that gets right, most things won't work.

Of course when they do work, you'll see the players being more productive, and in your mind, the players will be playing right, but you'll be wrong!
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Who stole the "D" out of Detroit?

Post  deusXango on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:45 pm

With the money that's been invested, the athletic upgrades across the board, and the strengthened defensive positions, it's no reason why we should be coming in last in the categories we are!! Defensive rebounding?! Defensive efficiency??!! As long as those are facts, I don't care how many 3 point shots Josh Smith takes or how many shots Brandon Jennings take period; until our defense is fixed, our offense is a moot point. Think about this; if our defense was 20% better than what it is now, what would our record be like, with the same offensive results? Something is drastically wrong when Monroe, Maxiell, and Prince were more effective defensively, than Drummond, Monroe, and Smith are; why isn't Cheeks getting more out of them? That's a question fans deserve an answer to, not a hopeful excuse, but an answer!!

The high scores wouldn't bother me so much if we were in those D'Antoni type shoot outs, but we've just been getting our ass kicked at an increasing scoring rate lately, and our efforts to keep up have been pitiful. IMO major changes in our rotation need to be made A.S.A.P., because what we're doing is not working. This is Detroit and we do beat downs in this house; anybody that wants to play "nice ball" don't deserve to be in the rotation. How much is the importance of making FT's being made to the team? Is the importance being enforced? Maybe Cheeks is too damn nice; they say teams take on the personality of their coach.
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Re: FORUM

Post  WTF on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:07 pm

It's not the coach it's the players, I'm not saying Cheeks been perfect but you can hardly blame him for the poor execution of the players. Cheeks doesn't shoot FT's, he doesn't defend the rim, and he's not shooting and missing 3's and failing to defend the perimeter.

Cheeks is limited with what he has to work with beyond the top 6 players in his rotation and even half of them are not the brightest light bulb. Drummond is underachieving, Monroe gets lazy, and Jennings in confused because he talks to Joe. Before Cheeks was hired the world knew Monroe needed to improve his Mid-range game and his FT shooting and he hasn't. Drummond spent the summer with Hakeem and you can't tell I'm seriously starting to question his heart as much as I question Monroe's.

Sorry but some tend to way overstate what we have on this team (Singler, JJ, Bynum's and so on) perhaps I should include KCP in the mix as well. The thinking is that we have a **** load of talent when we really don't only two players on this team are playing consistent and that's Josh and Stuckey and oddly they've both been our best 3 point shooters.

Drummond should be 40 minutes on the court every game but Cheeks has to pull and sit him constantly, now what more can Cheeks do? Cheeks has told Monroe on several occasions he need to work on his mid-range game, that in doing so it make both him and the team better and he hasn't what more can Cheeks do. His PG is being instruct by the GM to do his own thing what is Cheeks to do? Cheeks has to play JJ he'll better off if he was coaching Radio but what more can he do. He plays Singler a player over rated, he has a retard and underachiever that makes up half of his bench.

Somehow we think we have a Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh so we can fill in the blanks with whatever and if it don't work the coach is the blame. We have nice pieces we don't have All Star and Super Star on our roster.
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Singler

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:25 pm

I really like what Singler does, and it's a lot... but...

Singler hasn't shot well since he burst upon the scene taking Stuckey's job away!

He shot well for a good period then........... crickets, zilch, zip, nada, the dude simply fell off of a cliff offensively for the rest of the season and never returned!

Is Singler hurt or something? Something is wrong, but we can't wait to figure it out, we need somebody to shoot the ball! Hopefully some home cooking can cure the shooting woes!

While shooting is a problem, the first half of the Lakers game showed that we can survive without it!

For whatever reason, we stopped what we were doing(that's coaching) and tried to play the Lakers game.

We also had turnovers, but we didn't have a lot of turnovers, our problem was that almost all of the turnovers were at horribly bad times!

Then there was the continuing defensive problems, only this time it wasn't just perimeter defense, our interior defense was ripped to threads by a soft center and an energy player... confused 

So if we did have good shooting, it would only serve to mask the deeper problems, so in a way, we're lucky we aren't shooting good so that we can address these issues right now!
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Somebody is Clueless...

Post  Oracle on Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:11 pm

It just might be Cheeks if he doesn't get this act together. I still believe that Cheeks can turn this around, mostly because it's early, and he has a lot of built in real excuses, er., I mean reasons things aren't working as they should.
 
However, results count, and the results are so dismal that they're hard to ignore when you come in dead last in very important categories! This for example,
 
"Only the Utah Jazz shoot worse from three than Detroit so far this season, and with an underrated shooter in Brandon Jennings combined with Chauncey Billups and Kyle Singler, you’d think they’d be better. In fact, Smith is shooting better than the overall team mark (28 percent), it’s just that the tiny sample size throws everything off (Singler has started the year in a 3-for-21 slump). But it’s disconcerting that Smith leads the team in three-point attempts with 59 through 9 games. Any time your 6-9 combo forward that’s a career 28.5 percent three-point shooter leads the team in three-point attempts, there needs to be a change.
 
The Pistons have other — more important — problems, too: free throw shooting (second to last in the league), defensive rebounding (dead last), and defensive efficiency (dead last), but a more circumspect Smith will ease Detroit’s issues from deep, hopefully without muddying the spacing in the paint.
 
Thankfully, despite sharing identical records, the Pistons don’t have to deal with the media succubus in New York, but if they continue to lose while Smith jacks more than five and a half three-pointers per game, look for Dumars — not to be fired, but to start dangling Smith in a trade package. Maybe Steve Mills is interested? We kid. Or do we?" - Please Stop Shooting Three-Pointers, Josh Smith
 
Yikes!!!!
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Linguine is not NBA starting material ...

Post  Sebastian on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:06 pm

deusXango wrote:....what do you think about inserting Datome into the starting lineup, now that KCP is there? If their shots start falling and Jennings shot is on, Monroe and Smith are a load inside; the 2nd unit, led by Drummond, Mitchell, and Stuckey could be brutal on opposing teams, don't you think? Or not! I'd love to hear fresh ideas.
DX, I do believe that Linguine can shoot, but to expect #13 to start games having to guard Kevin Durant, Paul George, Melo, Jeff Green, Paul Pierce, Rudy Gay, Luol Deng, LeBron, Iggy, Chandler Parsons, Nicholas Batum, any bunch of others will not happen. It wouldn't be fair to put the Italian MVP up against the best the League has to offer.

Naugh, I think it would be best to sneak Linguine into games, after they have gotten started and the first string dudes have the seats on the bench. Linguine is a 9th- or 10-man.

Maybe, T. Mitch should see some minutes as the first SF off the bench.
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Re: FORUM

Post  deusXango on Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:14 pm

Sebastian wrote:If the New Orleans Pelicans would like to have a young, up and coming center added to their roster. Perhaps, Joe should get on the phone and give Dell Demps a call and present a straight-up trade of Moose for Anthony Davis. The Pelicans will have their center and WE will have OUR power forward.

Sebastian, I'd love that, but Anthony Davis is on his way to becoming an All-Star.....this year!! I know New Orleans is Monroe's home, but they love the "Uni-brow" down there. Demps knowing Joe's reputation as a GM, he'd try to con him out of Monroe, so he could have the Moose and the Brow.
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Seriously fellas...

Post  deusXango on Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:07 pm

....what do you think about inserting Datome into the starting lineup, now that KCP is there? If their shots start falling and Jennings shot is on, Monroe and Smith are a load inside; the 2nd unit, led by Drummond, Mitchell, and Stuckey could be brutal on opposing teams, don't you think? Or not! I'd love to hear fresh ideas.
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Re: FORUM

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