I'll get off Frank if...

[Oracle]

He continues to play this much of his lineup before he settles on a core 9.

In this one, we saw Knight, CV, & Singler lead the way!

Prince & Maxiell? Well, they must have missed the plane, and Frank played their dopplegangers. What a dissappearing job!

He needs to tinker with the lineup like LB did, but he should have done that from the first game, and we would know a lot more now!

But no, he had to go and "Pick" winners, and not let their play dictate who will play. Oh well, I hope this was a start, but we'll see.

[merc]

Thanks for the comments guys... the demand for changes may be indeed be a shade of gray...Lil Larry may not be the right choice... then again he didn't enter the job with a good chance to succeed... pretty sure he could win with the Lakers or OKC... how much of the rotations has been influenced by management?... ie. all of a sudden CV is back in the rotation to be showcased.
We are close to having a competitive roster... when we acquire these puzzle pieces (which we already have the assets to do) is when the stability can start... with or without Frank.... but please no wholesale changes... let the team build some chemistry.

[Phil-Good]

Pistons will be good one day. But today, NY is the better team. Too many vets, too well coached and too much experience for the young guns to deal with.

[lemonpen]

We just witnessed a sucessfull showcasing of CV. Any chance word got to CV about having an opportunity to prove himself today for an unnamed suitor. C'mon Joe !!!. Mission accomplished. News at 11.

[lemonpen]

The annual theme... I hate the coach... I hate the GM... they should always be a playoff contender... change 80% of the roster each year.

Perpetual changes guarantees inconsistency.

And we are only 13 games into the season.

[lemonpen]

The annual theme... I hate the coach... I hate the GM... they should always be a playoff contender... change 80% of the roster each year.

Perpetual changes guarantees inconsistency.

Merc...yes, we could keep Lil Larry, and yes, the team would improve and eventually even make the playoffs, in spite of him. But honestly, wouldn't you rather have Nate McMillan as coach of the Pistons for the next five years, instead of Lil Larry? All you need to do is look at Brandon Knight's non-development at PG, and the Pistons lack of chemistry in general to know Lil Larry isn't a great coach. We could do better.

Murph, firing 4 coaches in 5 years just dosen't seem like the right enticement for any coach of note. It kinda indicates an eventual lack of ownership support when things get bumpy. Stability with LF might only wind up being first round playoff exits but that represents a step forward at this point.

[Grizz2]

to the Knicks or anyteam ... just want to see a head coach who plays the young players significant minutes .. and knows how to get them to play better and better as a team .. without public lamblasting them .. accepting responsibility for whenever things go wrong .. and teaching the players to play better game by game ...

After the Knicks were blown out by the Rockets a few days ago .. the game before they played the Pistons ... take a listen to this ..

"They beat us in every way you can beat a team,'' Knicks coach Mike Woodson said. "I know throughout the course of the year or the season you have games like this, but it's not acceptable. We just weren't ready to play and that's on me.''

Lady (Rhett) and Gentlemen, that is the coach Joe Dumars reportively wanted to hire instead of Frank ... Woodson took the blame .... PUBLICLY and then went back to practice and the drawing board .. gathered everyone's attention .. and then they got ready for the Pistons ...

Frank is improving (while kicking and screaming) .. but ... really .. if a head coach at this point in his career .. some 7 years in .. blames his players publicly .. does not get that Drummond is the future of this team .. wont run plays for every starter on the floor such as Singler ... would rather play CV than English and our other young players for the team's future .... He needs to go .. Nate M or Bill L are better for the Pistons and there's no sense in wasting any more time ..

[Oracle]

Murph, firing 4 coaches in 5 years just dosen't seem like the right enticement for any coach of note. It kinda indicates an eventual lack of ownership support when things get bumpy. Stability with LF might only wind up being first round playoff exits but that represents a step forward at this point.

Would you take a job where others have failed?

I wouldn't want a coach that looks at the failure of other clowns and has fear of taking a job!

A coach with that much lack of faith in his ability is surely a weak individual.

I would bargin with Joe, get the deal I want, and proceed to make this team a contender... that's what a confident individual would do!

So I'm not in the least worried about attracting a coach! A smart, confident individual see no fear in the situation you describe!

[Sparma]

Larry's making it tough to muster a defense of him. Just listened to part of the game on the radio, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're going to let up 121 shouldn't you try pairing your defensive difference maker with your best player? At PP, someone defended LF by saying that the Knicks went small with Carmelo at PF, so Monroe or Drummond would have had to defend him. When the other team goes small, you can either follow suit or you can try to create a mismatch of your own by staying big. Why not rotate Prince and Monroe on Carmelo with Drummond providing cover for each? It wasn't that long along that Ben Wallace (and that guy who scored 15 today) allowed us to take defensive chances by providing superb cover. Something worth trying considering you let up 121 going conventional.

[Oracle]

We are close to having a competitive roster... when we acquire these puzzle pieces (which we already have the assets to do) is when the stability can start... with or without Frank.... but please no wholesale changes... let the team build some chemistry.

I agree, and the problem is that right now, the coach isn't even getting the most out of the talent he already has, and his process for getting there is broken(Carlisle's teams always over performed).

Having said that, I could live with Frank if he simply developed the chemistry of our core, because if that happens, the rest of the team chemistry would follow.

I HATE wholesale changes because they're DANGEROUS!!! Why?

Well, if you change 3 things, and things either improve of get worse, the question becomes... "Which of those things was the cause?"

You have to change slowly, and allow enough time inbetween to see how it affects the team, so I'm in agreement with you.

Changing coaches is huge because it not only changes the coach, it changes the system, and always upsets loyalties within, so you don't do it lightly.

It's a last resort, but if Frank doesn't get his act together, it's a costly move that has to be made!

[Phil-Good]

R.Stuckey is having A very...very...very bad season. This guy took two steps forward last season and now he as taken 3 years backwards.

His shooting is piss poor. Stuckey needs A change of scenery ASAP!

Biggest let down so far this season for me is Stuckey by far!

[cool breeze]

to the Knicks or anyteam ... just want to see a head coach who plays the young players significant minutes .. and knows how to get them to play better and better as a team .. without public lamblasting them .. accepting responsibility for whenever things go wrong .. and teaching the players to play better game by game ...

After the Knicks were blown out by the Rockets a few days ago .. the game before they played the Pistons ... take a listen to this ..

"They beat us in every way you can beat a team,'' Knicks coach Mike Woodson said. "I know throughout the course of the year or the season you have games like this, but it's not acceptable. We just weren't ready to play and that's on me.''

Lady (Rhett) and Gentlemen, that is the coach Joe Dumars reportively wanted to hire instead of Frank ... Woodson took the blame .... PUBLICLY and then went back to practice and the drawing board .. gathered everyone's attention .. and then they got ready for the Pistons ...

Frank is improving (while kicking and screaming) .. but ... really .. if a head coach at this point in his career .. some 7 years in .. blames his players publicly .. does not get that Drummond is the future of this team .. wont run plays for every starter on the floor such as Singler ... would rather play CV than English and our other young players for the team's future .... He needs to go .. Nate M or Bill L are better for the Pistons and there's no sense in wasting any more time ..

I knew this was about to happen regarding Frank's secret weapon - CHARLIE V. I don't care if Charlie scores 30 points the next game he still is not the kind of player I would want on my team. Must we now watch Charlie replacing Maxiell with 2 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. After all, we need to bring Drummond along real slow. The coach is afraid that the Pistons might lose games with Drummond. Of course our Pistons are a sure thing with Charlie V, Maggette, Bynum, Stuckey, and Maxiell on the floor. Maybe that will be Frank's new starting lineup. I am with you Grizz. But is it Frank providing such profound direction or Joe Dumars???

[WTF]

Too Funny! Charlie finally get some real burn and Don about to faint

Well just as I expected Prince was a no show against Melo, after being agressive last game he goes back to being a bitch when facing an elite SF.

[WTF]

We are close to having a competitive roster... when we acquire these puzzle pieces (which we already have the assets to do) is when the stability can start... with or without Frank.... but please no wholesale changes... let the team build some chemistry.

I agree, and the problem is that right now, the coach isn't even getting the most out of the talent he already has, and his process for getting there is broken(Carlisle's teams always over performed).

Having said that, I could live with Frank if he simply developed the chemistry of our core, because if that happens, the rest of the team chemistry would follow.

I HATE wholesale changes because they're DANGEROUS!!! Why?

Well, if you change 3 things, and things either improve of get worse, the question becomes... "Which of those things was the cause?"

You have to change slowly, and allow enough time inbetween to see how it affects the team, so I'm in agreement with you.

Changing coaches is huge because it not only changes the coach, it changes the system, and always upsets loyalties within, so you don't do it lightly.

It's a last resort, but if Frank doesn't get his act together, it's a costly move that has to be made!

I don't think you gut the whole team, but the roster is flawed and needs immediate improving. Some keep on suggesting that we sit and wait for the lights to come on and Frank finally get it, or Joe finally make the block busting trade we've been waiting on since forever.

Do any of you think something magical is going to happen with Prince and Maxiell sucking up 30 plus minutes every game? Maxiell has been the same shit player for 9 season and he's not goinbg to magically turn into Big Ben.

This team has a core of Drummond, Knight, Monroe, Singler and to the dismay of a few Stuckey. If we are truly in a rebuilding situation common sense say's this is the starting unit we should every single night to build that consistency needed to move forward. The stuff that's going currently doesn't make a bit of sense and it is not progress.

[lemonpen]

Murph, firing 4 coaches in 5 years just dosen't seem like the right enticement for any coach of note. It kinda indicates an eventual lack of ownership support when things get bumpy. Stability with LF might only wind up being first round playoff exits but that represents a step forward at this point.

Would you take a job where others have failed?

I wouldn't want a coach that looks at the failure of other clowns and has fear of taking a job!

A coach with that much lack of faith in his ability is surely a weak individual.

I would bargin with Joe, get the deal I want, and proceed to make this team a contender... that's what a confident individual would do!

So I'm not in the least worried about attracting a coach! A smart, confident individual see no fear in the situation you describe!

Upper eschelon coaches pick and choose based on their perception of their opportunity to succeed in terms of roster quality, draft status, FA $$, historical use of FA $$, ownership commitment, org stability, control & input, ........
Agreed failure of prior coaches should not play a role, but the willingness of the organization to repeatedly replace coaches after a term that the coaching fraternity would interpret as unacceptably short is a factor. I'm sure you gotta agree our reputation in that regard must be crappy. You refer to the prior guys as "clowns", but they were once considered good enough to get the gig.
I'm not saying it's impossible but Joe might have to surrender some control and Gores a lot of guaranteed lootie.

[WTF]

Curry and Kuester were not good enough to get the gigs they were offered even though Joe gave them the head coaching jobs. These were "Yes Men"

I don't think we'll have a problem with hiring a coach if 1. He's paid properly 2. Given full control of roster. These are the main 2 reason why both Avery and Collins walked away.

Personally IMHO Mr. Dumars stands in the way of us getting a truly qualified coach. There are probably a 12 coaches slobbering at an opportunity to get at coaching Knight, Drummond, Moose, Stuckey, Singler Daye and JJ. "However" these are coaches that want to implement their own direction and not Joe's.

I'm not certain Frank was Gores selection for this reason. Drummond would be on the court starting games not because it would produce wins, but fill sits. Joe is still dictating lineups, coaches like Sloan, Jackson and all our other hopeful's wouldn't allow that to happen. My other theory is Gores will use Frank as a reason to fire Joe if Frank truly his choice.

[lemonpen]

Curry and Kuester were not good enough to get the gigs they were offered even though Joe gave them the head coaching jobs. These were "Yes Men"

I don't think we'll have a problem with hiring a coach if 1. He's paid properly 2. Given full control of roster. These are the main 2 reason why both Avery and Collins walked away.

Personally IMHO Mr. Dumars stands in the way of us getting a truly qualified coach. There are probably a 12 coaches slobbering at an opportunity to get at coaching Knight, Drummond, Moose, Stuckey, Singler Daye and JJ. "However" these are coaches that want to implement their own direction and not Joe's.

I'm not certain Frank was Gores selection for this reason. Drummond would be on the court starting games not because it would produce wins, but fill sits. Joe is still dictating lineups, coaches like Sloan, Jackson and all our other hopeful's wouldn't allow that to happen. My other theory is Gores will use Frank as a reason to fire Joe if Frank truly his choice.

So everything before your "other" theory was also a theory? I feel better now.

If a potential coach took everything you state as fact he would run the other way.

[Grizz3]

Frank is holding the Detroit Pistons back with his player court time player rotations ... This is so obvious, even NBA sports writers are noticing ... It could be as Cynic suggests ... that Joe Dumars is calling the shots on who plays how much for the most part .. If so . he is part of the problem .. and if so .. that means that not only is Frank holding the Pistons back and should be fired, but .. so should Dumars as well .. I would like to believe that the player allocations of court time that have been so bad .. are Frank's responsibilty with input from Dumars but Frank makes the final call .. Doesnt make it so but ..

Like Phillips says succinctly .. STUCKEY SUCKS this season .. no ifs, ands or buts .. What the hell is going on? Drugs or animosity or loss of confidence or injury ... No idea .. but I will blame Frank to a small degree minimum because he is the one in charge of making sure all players play their best and keep improving .. This development is a major roadblock in the team plans for this season and .. to be honest ... gotta believe the Pistons are better without Stuckey than with him .. You can also say that about NO-D-NO-BOARDS Charlie V (who at least shot the ball well ) today and got minutes that would have been better given to other young players like Drummond or KRAV or English or Middleton ..And you can say that about C Maggette .. Just what is the point of having him on the team? Or a better question; What is the point of giving CM ANY minutes at all?

This all goes back to L. Frank saying he would be giving minutes to CV and Daye .. and he did just that .. guys who have proved many times over they do not belong on any NBA roster .... ever again .. So by my count that is FIVE OUT of the 12 PLAYERS who are really struggling for whom they are as players .CV . DAYE .. MAGGETTE ... JJ.... STUCKEY ... and if you add Prince and JMAX who are starting for the Pistons when other teams would never use them as starters .. You are then talking SEVEN players who are retrograding or flat out harming the youth development of the Detroit Pistons ..

So our defense is rotten and we play these 7 more minutes, instead of Drummond?????

I guess we are going to win less than 20 games this season if Frank keeps doing what he is doing .. playing crummy vets who have no future .. And while getting a top 8 protect 1st round pick sounds great for next summer's draft ... what is not so great is that the USELESS VETS' minutes are coming at the expense of the up-and-coming young guns .. Real damn shame and you can bet that the longer Frank stays, the longer things are going to get screwed up .. End the Insanity .. FiRE Larry Frank and send him to the office of NBA Commissioner STERN which is a perfect working environment for him .. Incompetence, dishonesty, and a lot of braying and bullying . .

JJ is also a what-the-hell-happened player of late .. That elbow to the throat was all it took? Gee I hope not .. he seemed tougher than that .. Again .. it is on Frank to at least some degree ..

When you have players who not doing their best . .that is on the head coach .. It is his job to figure things out and get the team and all its parts running smoothly ..

BK7, Drummond, Monroe, and Singler are doing well despite Frank's witch's brew of bad players and bad player combinations .. . that is a source of hope .. yet .. easy to be worried that Frank will screw up their development as players over time ..

[WTF]

Only the following is theory excluding the Bold remark of Joe dictating lineups and roster changes. Sure as long as Joe is sitting here hiring a respectable coach is difficult. Joe simply need to be fired because he's the biggest obstacle standing in the way of progress.

I'm not certain Frank was Gores selection for this reason. Drummond would be on the court starting games not because it would produce wins, but fill sits. Joe is still dictating lineups, coaches like Sloan, Jackson and all our other hopeful's wouldn't allow that to happen. My other theory is Gores will use Frank as a reason to fire Joe if Frank truly his choice.

[WTF]

Cool made a point the other day that no matter what happens Joe goes unscaved. I here the bashing of Stuckey from many whom was sold on the bullshit Joe was dishing out about Stuckey being the next great thing.

I here hints of forgiving and forgetting a third bad coaching hire and riding it out for the sake of continuing to do the wrong things just to remain consistent.

I here the sounds of settling on the false hope that if the team manages an 8th seed with players like Prince, Bynum, JMax and Maggette sucking up major minutes it some how reprsents progress in rebuilding.

PLEASE KOOL AID DRINKERS PUT DOWN GLASS AND BACK AWAY!!

[lemonpen]

Only the following is theory excluding the Bold remark of Joe dictating lineups and roster changes. Sure as long as Joe is sitting here hiring a respectable coach is difficult. Joe simply need to be fired because he's the biggest obstacle standing in the way of progress.

I'm not certain Frank was Gores selection for this reason. Drummond would be on the court starting games not because it would produce wins, but fill sits. Joe is still dictating lineups, coaches like Sloan, Jackson and all our other hopeful's wouldn't allow that to happen. My other theory is Gores will use Frank as a reason to fire Joe if Frank truly his choice.

Wise unless you are an insider that is all tea leaf theory.

[WTF]

Only the following is theory excluding the Bold remark of Joe dictating lineups and roster changes. Sure as long as Joe is sitting here hiring a respectable coach is difficult. Joe simply need to be fired because he's the biggest obstacle standing in the way of progress.

I'm not certain Frank was Gores selection for this reason. Drummond would be on the court starting games not because it would produce wins, but fill sits. Joe is still dictating lineups, coaches like Sloan, Jackson and all our other hopeful's wouldn't allow that to happen. My other theory is Gores will use Frank as a reason to fire Joe if Frank truly his choice.

Wise unless you are an insider that is all tea leaf theory.

lemonpen you said it yourself in a previous response to Oracle that Joe would have to relinguish control and Gores would have to give up the lootie You said that because you can clearly see that Joe is the real problem here with us getting an elite coach. You don't have to be an insider to see it, just watch a game, read the paper, look at the stats, look at other teams, and the empty seats in the arena.

The blame game been dealt everywhere except at Joe when all the evidence points in his direction from the firing of Rick, LB and Flip to the dumb hiring of Curry, Kuester and Frank. All in an effort to stay in control and dictate. LB wanted Melo for crying out loud not Darko, Rick wasn't kissing Joe or Mr. D and Flip couldn't even hired his own assistants.

[deusXango]

Frank is holding the Detroit Pistons back with his player court time player rotations ... This is so obvious, even NBA sports writers are noticing ... It could be as Cynic suggests ... that Joe Dumars is calling the shots on who plays how much for the most part .. If so . he is part of the problem .. and if so .. that means that not only is Frank holding the Pistons back and should be fired, but .. so should Dumars as well .. I would like to believe that the player allocations of court time that have been so bad .. are Frank's responsibilty with input from Dumars but Frank makes the final call .. Doesnt make it so but ..

Like Phillips says succinctly .. STUCKEY SUCKS this season .. no ifs, ands or buts .. What the hell is going on? Drugs or animosity or loss of confidence or injury ... No idea .. but I will blame Frank to a small degree minimum because he is the one in charge of making sure all players play their best and keep improving .. This development is a major roadblock in the team plans for this season and .. to be honest ... gotta believe the Pistons are better without Stuckey than with him .. You can also say that about NO-D-NO-BOARDS Charlie V (who at least shot the ball well ) today and got minutes that would have been better given to other young players like Drummond or KRAV or English or Middleton ..And you can say that about C Maggette .. Just what is the point of having him on the team? Or a better question; What is the point of giving CM ANY minutes at all?

This all goes back to L. Frank saying he would be giving minutes to CV and Daye .. and he did just that .. guys who have proved many times over they do not belong on any NBA roster .... ever again .. So by my count that is FIVE OUT of the 12 PLAYERS who are really struggling for whom they are as players .CV . DAYE .. MAGGETTE ... JJ.... STUCKEY ... and if you add Prince and JMAX who are starting for the Pistons when other teams would never use them as starters .. You are then talking SEVEN players who are retrograding or flat out harming the youth development of the Detroit Pistons ..

So our defense is rotten and we play these 7 more minutes, instead of Drummond?????

I guess we are going to win less than 20 games this season if Frank keeps doing what he is doing .. playing crummy vets who have no future .. And while getting a top 8 protect 1st round pick sounds great for next summer's draft ... what is not so great is that the USELESS VETS' minutes are coming at the expense of the up-and-coming young guns .. Real damn shame and you can bet that the longer Frank stays, the longer things are going to get screwed up .. End the Insanity .. FiRE Larry Frank and send him to the office of NBA Commissioner STERN which is a perfect working environment for him .. Incompetence, dishonesty, and a lot of braying and bullying . .

JJ is also a what-the-hell-happened player of late .. That elbow to the throat was all it took? Gee I hope not .. he seemed tougher than that .. Again .. it is on Frank to at least some degree ..

When you have players who not doing their best . .that is on the head coach .. It is his job to figure things out and get the team and all its parts running smoothly ..

BK7, Drummond, Monroe, and Singler are doing well despite Frank's witch's brew of bad players and bad player combinations .. . that is a source of hope .. yet .. easy to be worried that Frank will screw up their development as players over time ..

Grizz, all these things being true, Joe better be trying to engineer a top 3 lottery pick for Shabazz Muhammad (to replace Rodney Stuckey, and good riddence), and sign Josh Smith as our FA next summer (to replace Tayshaun Prince, thanks for the memories). We can't be obvious in tanking but, with a known knucklehead, and ass-hole (Lil' Larry) calling the shots, the basketball world, and fans alike, will understand. Gotta look for a silver lining in this mess.

[Sissy1946]

So what does he do the next game against the Knicks? He doesn't play them together & they get stomped, didn't this happen one other time when they both played extensive minute then won but the next game they just waved at each other like Ships passing through the night, have got to tell ya that Frank is one Stupid Ass coach & most Fan's are getting pretty damn sick of his lame, same old Shit. Where is Jelly-Filled Chocolate's at? Hiding in the corner? He needs to get rid of some of players who are just lingering on for the dough, we need to trade Maxiell, Prince, CV, Daye & Frickin' Ball Hog Bynum, am sick of him getting the minutes he's getting, why hasn't Frank sat him down & told him to quit frickin' dribbling & shooting so much or he's going to be on the damn bench, why can't he tell him that because that's his fuckin '' problem & why is Maxiell still starting on this team the worthless piece of shit. English deserves minutes. Kravtsov needs to be let out of prison so we can see what this guy has to offer, I mean they did sign him to a 3 year contract didn't they? We've also got to many Combinations out there on the floor, the starters are playing to many minutes especially Prince & Maxiell, we need a point guard, Stuckey needs to be traded & we still need Bill Laimbeer in here to at least play the right players, I thought after the draft that we would give Frank a chance to see what he can do but I'm telling ya this guy is clueless about line ups, evaluation & throwing his team always under the bus, take some responsibility yourself you horses ass, your the one coaching them, if their not listening or running the plays you put in there then something might be wrong with the way your teaching.
This team is now 3-11 with no hope in sight, you've blamed everything & everybody but yourself you've still got Prince & Maxiell in your starting line up, hey Dumbazz maybe that's the problem, their slow, lethargic & can't shoot, they stop the flow of the game, Catch & shoot has never been one of the Princess's better traits. We know Dumbass Dumars won't make any trades because he doesn't know no to since his buddy left for Milwaukee. This team is in trouble with the Dumars/Frank Combo.

[Grizz2]

Frank is holding the Detroit Pistons back with his player court time player rotations ... This is so obvious, even NBA sports writers are noticing ... It could be as Cynic suggests ... that Joe Dumars is calling the shots on who plays how much for the most part .. If so . he is part of the problem .. and if so .. that means that not only is Frank holding the Pistons back and should be fired, but .. so should Dumars as well .. I would like to believe that the player allocations of court time that have been so bad .. are Frank's responsibilty with input from Dumars but Frank makes the final call .. Doesnt make it so but ..

Like Phillips says succinctly .. STUCKEY SUCKS this season .. no ifs, ands or buts .. What the hell is going on? Drugs or animosity or loss of confidence or injury ... No idea .. but I will blame Frank to a small degree minimum because he is the one in charge of making sure all players play their best and keep improving .. This development is a major roadblock in the team plans for this season and .. to be honest ... gotta believe the Pistons are better without Stuckey than with him .. You can also say that about NO-D-NO-BOARDS Charlie V (who at least shot the ball well ) today and got minutes that would have been better given to other young players like Drummond or KRAV or English or Middleton ..And you can say that about C Maggette .. Just what is the point of having him on the team? Or a better question; What is the point of giving CM ANY minutes at all?

This all goes back to L. Frank saying he would be giving minutes to CV and Daye .. and he did just that .. guys who have proved many times over they do not belong on any NBA roster .... ever again .. So by my count that is FIVE OUT of the 12 PLAYERS who are really struggling for whom they are as players .CV . DAYE .. MAGGETTE ... JJ.... STUCKEY ... and if you add Prince and JMAX who are starting for the Pistons when other teams would never use them as starters .. You are then talking SEVEN players who are retrograding or flat out harming the youth development of the Detroit Pistons ..

So our defense is rotten and we play these 7 more minutes, instead of Drummond?????

I guess we are going to win less than 20 games this season if Frank keeps doing what he is doing .. playing crummy vets who have no future .. And while getting a top 8 protect 1st round pick sounds great for next summer's draft ... what is not so great is that the USELESS VETS' minutes are coming at the expense of the up-and-coming young guns .. Real damn shame and you can bet that the longer Frank stays, the longer things are going to get screwed up .. End the Insanity .. FiRE Larry Frank and send him to the office of NBA Commissioner STERN which is a perfect working environment for him .. Incompetence, dishonesty, and a lot of braying and bullying . .

JJ is also a what-the-hell-happened player of late .. That elbow to the throat was all it took? Gee I hope not .. he seemed tougher than that .. Again .. it is on Frank to at least some degree ..

When you have players who not doing their best . .that is on the head coach .. It is his job to figure things out and get the team and all its parts running smoothly ..

BK7, Drummond, Monroe, and Singler are doing well despite Frank's witch's brew of bad players and bad player combinations .. . that is a source of hope .. yet .. easy to be worried that Frank will screw up their development as players over time ..

Grizz, all these things being true, Joe better be trying to engineer a top 3 lottery pick for Shabazz Muhammad (to replace Rodney Stuckey, and good riddence), and sign Josh Smith as our FA next summer (to replace Tayshaun Prince, thanks for the memories). We can't be obvious in tanking but, with a known knucklehead, and ass-hole (Lil' Larry) calling the shots, the basketball world, and fans alike, will understand. Gotta look for a silver lining in this mess.

DX ... A top 3 lottery pick would be awesome.... and seeing Drummond develop this season as if he were a top 3 lottery pick woul be pretty great too .. We traded for the cap space to use this summer .. so I guess we had better use it? Else we traded Ben Gordon and the first round draft pick for nothing? Josh Smith will be tough to get but ... will welcome him at 14 million per .... no problem ...

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