Solving The Charlie V Problem

[Oracle]

Call Godfather!

[Grizz]

To The NBA,

Game 2 of the 2012 NBA Finals was botched so badly by your referees, I have a hard time believing this game was on the up and up. Just one play epitomized how screwed up your officiating was when with the Thunder trailing by 2 and a handful of seconds left, Durant goes up for a lean-forward shot from the left baseline, with Lebron James pushing his hand directly into Durants body hard and NOTHING was called. The NBA's leading scorer could not get the correct call at the point in the game when if the referee allows that kind of contact, then there is no way the Thunder are going to win. There were, of course, other instances as well where Thunder players were getting hit and nothing was called .. nothing .. If this is the way the NBA is going to be, then I say the hell with your goddamn league and promise you I will not watch it anymore, period...So go to hell, David Stern .. Go directly to hell ..



Robert Bayer

Forum Members, it was all way past disgusting .. pick your own cases where Wade or Lebron were not even fouled and they got the call .. 5 to 8 cases .. and the reverse easily is also the case, where the Thunder DID SURE AS SHIT GET FOULED and nothing was called .. that's about a 20 point swing right there .... I swear I was looking at the referees this game (muted version of viewing once again) and it felt like the fix was on .. Just reading their eyes .. Something didnt seem right .. like they were trying to hide what they had decided they were going to do .. A big middle finger to the NBA and David Stern for this horse shit ..

[Grizz]

I dont care if this is the normal way the Heat get fouls against the opposition that are not there, or whether they usually get away with fouls they truly commit .. This is the NBA Finals and it has to be legitimate and fair and right .. or it is all meaningless and a disgrace to all involved.

I do NOT consider the Thunder to have lost this game and never will .. to the end of time ...

Once again, several hard right and left hooks across the chins of Stern and the referees involved .. Screw you!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Grizz]

Didnt know McCloskey fought so hard for Thomas to be on the team .. and had such strong feelings .. Know many of us were pissed off and rightly so ... McCloskey said a lot of good and true things in this interview .... I say RIGHT ON to it all and mad respect to McCloskey for having so much integrity on this ... It was really all bull shit from the Bulls involved ... and was 100 times worse than Thomas walking off the court in 1991 ... If you cannot put aside ill will from simply competing .. you are pretty much not a man ..


McCloskey resigned from the 1992 USA Basketball Olympic committee after Isiah Thomas' omission. And 20 years later, "angry" doesn't quite describe his feelings in full.

"It's very simple," McCloskey said from his home in Savannah, Ga. "When you can't get the no. 1 guy in basketball (at his position) and one who promoted his team so well and played so well, that was ridiculous."

McCloskey, on the mend from rotator cuff surgery these days, was asked if he'd let it go yet.

"No," he said. "Absolutely (not)."

The "Dream Team" documentary that aired Wednesday night has sparked a lot of conversation about things that happened two decades ago.

Old stories are being rehashed and new ones finally are coming to light.

"I made it public that it was a disgrace, the fact Isiah wasn't a part of it," said McCloskey, the architect of the Pistons' back-to-back titles in 1989 and '90. "I couldn't understand it."

Bulls stars Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen made no bones about the fact they didn't want Thomas, a bitter rival from the days the Pistons and Bulls routinely met in the playoffs.

"What happened behind closed doors, I can't answer that," McCloskey said of Jordan's alleged role in keeping Thomas off. "I was upset about it."

The Dream Team went on to win a gold medal.

Thomas issued a statement Wednesday night after the documentary aired.

"Today, like all Americans, I congratulate the Dream Team on their anniversary. I am proud of my career in the NBA and have fond memories of going head to head with all the members of the team," Thomas said. "I can't speak to the selection process as I wasn't involved. But 20 years later, their gold medal is still a momentous achievement."




"I don't think what happened there would have any more to do (than anything else)," McCloskey said. "He established what he could do. His reputation, his skills and competitiveness, and that was what our team was made of: competitors."

[cool breeze]

I dont care if this is the normal way the Heat get fouls against the opposition that are not there, or whether they usually get away with fouls they truly commit .. This is the NBA Finals and it has to be legitimate and fair and right .. or it is all meaningless and a disgrace to all involved.

I do NOT consider the Thunder to have lost this game and never will .. to the end of time ...

Once again, several hard right and left hooks across the chins of Stern and the referees involved .. Screw you!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Five of my buddies have called me today so upset with the way that game was called. Imagine how many basketball fans in America who are not Heat fans feel that there has been tampering by officials in every playoff series that Heat has played in this season. That non call against James is just insane and prevented a very exciting ending of the game. And James got so many bogus calls driving to the rim. How many times has Heat players set up to take a charge when the opposing player is already in the air and very exposed to injury? If face guard in the NBA is legal then it should be changed. Battier gets my MVP vote for last night's game. He will test the officials to the limit and played an outstanding game but should have fouled out by half time.

[cool breeze]

NBADRAFTNET has had the Pistons taking Leonard for the 9th pick for several days in a row. Has he worked out for the Pistons yet? Leonard is my choice if Dumars doesn't trade down. I am enjoying the speculation about what Detroit will do before this draft. The pressure is directly on Joe Dumars shoulders as it should be. Joe knows that he can't afford to screw up again. The pressure should have been on him long ago and maybe he would have done a little work.

The Pistons reporters and especially Vincent Goodwill will not report the actual news or Piston history correctly. A good story would be how the Pistons went downhill after Dumars decided that playing defense was no longer important. It was no fluke that Dumars signed what he thought would be dynamic offensive players who had no history of ever playing any defense. However, how do you get uncontested looks if the other team makes a shot on almost every possession? Dumars should be fired for drafting Austin Daye who was perhaps one of the weakest defenders in he nation coming out of college. DId Dumars bother to ask his college coach why the team played so much zone defense? Daye couldn't guard any of the starters in the WNBA coming out of college and might have trouble holding his own now. Who is the worst defender currently playing for the Pistons? Is it Charlie V, Ben Gordon, Austin Daye, or Bynum? How can a team survive with 4 extremely inept defenders?

Is Monroe working out this summer to improve his defense and rebounding? That would be a good story but the Detroit News has no interest in what our players are doing to improve themselves. Monroe was among the worst defenders of all big men last season and it is time that he becomes accountable this next season. What must happen for Monroe is very simple. He needs to work harder to get in better physical condition and he needs a lot more weight work. If he does that, we have a potential All Star player in the front court playing for the Detroit Pistons. What if anything is Piston management doing to help make that happen for Monroe? Come on Vincent get off your ass and get us some stories about Piston basketball that might be real.

[cool breeze]

This is becoming crazy how so many people think Drummond would be a good pick. They ignore how he played the game last season and acted off the court. He is a coaches nightmare. There is something going on between his ears that I cannot understand. When you have the potential to become a effective player at any level and do not try as hard as you can, then why should anyone believe that things will change once you become a pro? Every All Star players has one thing in common. They have worked harder than their competition and have never ever acted like Drummond. He is a project type guy who has a bad mindset. Meyers Leonard is the opposite. He is a hard worker with a great attitude. You cannot become a effective big man in the NBA without a great work ethic. Meyers has it. He will be a key player within three years on some NBA team. It would be great to see him develop while playing minutes next to Monroe. That is if the Pistons decide not to trade down.

[Grizz]

I dont care if this is the normal way the Heat get fouls against the opposition that are not there, or whether they usually get away with fouls they truly commit .. This is the NBA Finals and it has to be legitimate and fair and right .. or it is all meaningless and a disgrace to all involved.

I do NOT consider the Thunder to have lost this game and never will .. to the end of time ...

Once again, several hard right and left hooks across the chins of Stern and the referees involved .. Screw you!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Five of my buddies have called me today so upset with the way that game was called. Imagine how many basketball fans in America who are not Heat fans feel that there has been tampering by officials in every playoff series that Heat has played in this season. That non call against James is just insane and prevented a very exciting ending of the game. And James got so many bogus calls driving to the rim. How many times has Heat players set up to take a charge when the opposing player is already in the air and very exposed to injury? If face guard in the NBA is legal then it should be changed. Battier gets my MVP vote for last night's game. He will test the officials to the limit and played an outstanding game but should have fouled out by half time.

Don, I felt like calling 5 of my friends or going to a bar to rage against this incompetency or corruption on the part of the officials .. All your points .. absolutely true .. Even CNNSI in its normal game recap mentioned at least the last non-call against LBJ. So much contact by the HEAT .. no call .. but conversely .. the Heat got phantom calls .. I especially hated the 1st quarter call against Durant where LBJ was driving to the right of the basket and Durant was moving parallel with him in good defensive form and then LBJ turns and rams an elbo into Durant's chest and Durant gets the foul .. When MLB allowed PEDs to run rampant .. without testing .. without consequence to cheating players .. I literally stopped caring about every team in MLB, the World Series . the All Star game . and only followed the Tigers daily games if they were playing well .. which was not often .. If the officials on the take or whatever push the Heat to the championship .. I am done with the NBA and will follow just the Pistons IF they are doing well .. Stern has sold his soul to the goddamn devil and may he and the officials who are doing this shit get their karmic payback as soon and as hard as possible ..

[cool breeze]

I dont care if this is the normal way the Heat get fouls against the opposition that are not there, or whether they usually get away with fouls they truly commit .. This is the NBA Finals and it has to be legitimate and fair and right .. or it is all meaningless and a disgrace to all involved.

I do NOT consider the Thunder to have lost this game and never will .. to the end of time ...

Once again, several hard right and left hooks across the chins of Stern and the referees involved .. Screw you!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Five of my buddies have called me today so upset with the way that game was called. Imagine how many basketball fans in America who are not Heat fans feel that there has been tampering by officials in every playoff series that Heat has played in this season. That non call against James is just insane and prevented a very exciting ending of the game. And James got so many bogus calls driving to the rim. How many times has Heat players set up to take a charge when the opposing player is already in the air and very exposed to injury? If face guard in the NBA is legal then it should be changed. Battier gets my MVP vote for last night's game. He will test the officials to the limit and played an outstanding game but should have fouled out by half time.

Don, I felt like calling 5 of my friends or going to a bar to rage against this incompetency or corruption on the part of the officials .. All your points .. absolutely true .. Even CNNSI in its normal game recap mentioned at least the last non-call against LBJ. So much contact by the HEAT .. no call .. but conversely .. the Heat got phantom calls .. I especially hated the 1st quarter call against Durant where LBJ was driving to the right of the basket and Durant was moving parallel with him in good defensive form and then LBJ turns and rams an elbo into Durant's chest and Durant gets the foul .. When MLB allowed PEDs to run rampant .. without testing .. without consequence to cheating players .. I literally stopped caring about every team in MLB, the World Series . the All Star game . and only followed the Tigers daily games if they were playing well .. which was not often .. If the officials on the take or whatever push the Heat to the championship .. I am done with the NBA and will follow just the Pistons IF they are doing well .. Stern has sold his soul to the goddamn devil and may he and the officials who are doing this shit get their karmic payback as soon and as hard as possible ..

I just finished writing my thoughts concerning corruption in the NBA to that web site provided. The powerful people who run the NBA just could not allow OKC to have a shot at winning that game. Still, Miami had to play almost a perfect game to win it plus the help of the officials.

[Grizz]

I dont care if this is the normal way the Heat get fouls against the opposition that are not there, or whether they usually get away with fouls they truly commit .. This is the NBA Finals and it has to be legitimate and fair and right .. or it is all meaningless and a disgrace to all involved.

I do NOT consider the Thunder to have lost this game and never will .. to the end of time ...

Once again, several hard right and left hooks across the chins of Stern and the referees involved .. Screw you!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Five of my buddies have called me today so upset with the way that game was called. Imagine how many basketball fans in America who are not Heat fans feel that there has been tampering by officials in every playoff series that Heat has played in this season. That non call against James is just insane and prevented a very exciting ending of the game. And James got so many bogus calls driving to the rim. How many times has Heat players set up to take a charge when the opposing player is already in the air and very exposed to injury? If face guard in the NBA is legal then it should be changed. Battier gets my MVP vote for last night's game. He will test the officials to the limit and played an outstanding game but should have fouled out by half time.

Don, I felt like calling 5 of my friends or going to a bar to rage against this incompetency or corruption on the part of the officials .. All your points .. absolutely true .. Even CNNSI in its normal game recap mentioned at least the last non-call against LBJ. So much contact by the HEAT .. no call .. but conversely .. the Heat got phantom calls .. I especially hated the 1st quarter call against Durant where LBJ was driving to the right of the basket and Durant was moving parallel with him in good defensive form and then LBJ turns and rams an elbo into Durant's chest and Durant gets the foul .. When MLB allowed PEDs to run rampant .. without testing .. without consequence to cheating players .. I literally stopped caring about every team in MLB, the World Series . the All Star game . and only followed the Tigers daily games if they were playing well .. which was not often .. If the officials on the take or whatever push the Heat to the championship .. I am done with the NBA and will follow just the Pistons IF they are doing well .. Stern has sold his soul to the goddamn devil and may he and the officials who are doing this shit get their karmic payback as soon and as hard as possible ..

I just finished writing my thoughts concerning corruption in the NBA to that web site provided. The powerful people who run the NBA just could not allow OKC to have a shot at winning that game. Still, Miami had to play almost a perfect game to win it plus the help of the officials.

Don, Very true statements once again .. Thank you! Even with a good 10 to 16 points gifts from Stern's CORRUPT NBA, the Heat just had enough to win .. Also want to say those were especially apt communication about Battier: Battier gets my MVP vote for last night's game. He will test the officials to the limit and played an outstanding game but should have fouled out by half time.[b]

He was actually making contact with his hands and arms on the shooters faces or arms as the shot when up and no call .. I was even surprised that occassionaly the shot when in despite the contact but still no call .. And then Wade and Lebron can get Phantom Calls when there is no contact or when they initate it .. How ridiculous is that? I am still irate at that elbow to the chest of Durant by LBJ where Durant was then whistled for a foul that then made Durant sit down with foul trouble at the 9 minute mark of the 1st quarter ..

This is sad beyond words .. not unexpected but .. I mean .. you can see why the NBA would want the Heat in the finals over Celtics .. younger and more exciting ... but the Thunder are more athletic, exciting, and a better team than the Heat .. I really want to scream at the officials involved and David Stern and then get a few punches in .. I am that mad .. My hope is the Thunder will get that mad from here on out and if I am the GM or Head Coach of the Thunder, it is time to make some public statements and get the $50,000 fines if they want this horse shit to stop ..

[Grizz]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

Zach Lowe, so your ridiculous argument is that because there were so many other bad calls prior to the NOT CALLED FOUL by Lebron on Durant that decided the game that we could not possibly tabulate , so therefore we have to in fact believe that this referee malpractice cannot ever be considered to have decided the game. Therefore your argument is truly absurb for 3 different reasons, any of which squashes your phony excuses. There are NOT hundreds of bad calls to tabulate, maybe a dozen at most. Secondly, even if there were, if there ever is a time the NBA wants to get the call right it is on the decisive shot at the end of the game. Stop making excuses and start realizing that no one wants a championship decided by the referees screwing up calls. Third, by my personal tabulation, the Heat are a good 10 to 20 points ahead on any bad calls before the decisive no calls. Start being a journalist and start calling out the NBA to get its act together, because now as a pseudo-propagandist, you are doing what you can to promote more bad calls since you are arguing that no one has a right to even question the undesirabilty and injustice these bad calls result in, a discredited and laughingstock NBA Finals.

[Oracle]

This dude is a dufus!

Using his logic, there is no need to ever review critical plays in the last 2 minutes!

Who cares if a call gives a team a win they didn't deserve? Where do they find idiots like this guy.

If a call occurs in the 1st quarter, or even early in the 4th of a tight game, you could make an argument that there is time to overcome it. Not a very good argument, but one that could pass the prudent man test.

However, the way the refs gave the game to the Heat sucks so hard, it's mind boggling to hear someone defend it that's not on Sterns payroll!

Message to the Thunder... small market teams BEWARE!!!

Stern like his stars, but he LOVES them in rich media markets even more!

[Grizz]

This dude is a dufus!

Using his logic, there is no need to ever review critical plays in the last 2 minutes!

Who cares if a call gives a team a win they didn't deserve? Where do they find idiots like this guy.

If a call occurs in the 1st quarter, or even early in the 4th of a tight game, you could make an argument that there is time to overcome it. Not a very good argument, but one that could pass the prudent man test.

However, the way the refs gave the game to the Heat sucks so hard, it's mind boggling to hear someone defend it that's not on Sterns payroll!

Message to the Thunder... small market teams BEWARE!!!

Stern like his stars, but he LOVES them in rich media markets even more!

If the Heat go down, so does their Star REP, so do endorsements, so do TV ratings, so do ticket sales, AT LEAST in Stern's DEMENTED FOUL MIND. Integrity means nothing to Stern.

[Rett]

Didnt know McCloskey fought so hard for Thomas to be on the team .. and had such strong feelings .. Know many of us were pissed off and rightly so ... McCloskey said a lot of good and true things in this interview .... I say RIGHT ON to it all and mad respect to McCloskey for having so much integrity on this ... It was really all bull shit from the Bulls involved ... and was 100 times worse than Thomas walking off the court in 1991 ... If you cannot put aside ill will from simply competing .. you are pretty much not a man ..


McCloskey resigned from the 1992 USA Basketball Olympic committee after Isiah Thomas' omission. And 20 years later, "angry" doesn't quite describe his feelings in full.

"It's very simple," McCloskey said from his home in Savannah, Ga. "When you can't get the no. 1 guy in basketball (at his position) and one who promoted his team so well and played so well, that was ridiculous."

McCloskey, on the mend from rotator cuff surgery these days, was asked if he'd let it go yet.

"No," he said. "Absolutely (not)."

The "Dream Team" documentary that aired Wednesday night has sparked a lot of conversation about things that happened two decades ago.

Old stories are being rehashed and new ones finally are coming to light.

"I made it public that it was a disgrace, the fact Isiah wasn't a part of it," said McCloskey, the architect of the Pistons' back-to-back titles in 1989 and '90. "I couldn't understand it."

Bulls stars Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen made no bones about the fact they didn't want Thomas, a bitter rival from the days the Pistons and Bulls routinely met in the playoffs.

"What happened behind closed doors, I can't answer that," McCloskey said of Jordan's alleged role in keeping Thomas off. "I was upset about it."

The Dream Team went on to win a gold medal.

Thomas issued a statement Wednesday night after the documentary aired.

"Today, like all Americans, I congratulate the Dream Team on their anniversary. I am proud of my career in the NBA and have fond memories of going head to head with all the members of the team," Thomas said. "I can't speak to the selection process as I wasn't involved. But 20 years later, their gold medal is still a momentous achievement."




"I don't think what happened there would have any more to do (than anything else)," McCloskey said. "He established what he could do. His reputation, his skills and competitiveness, and that was what our team was made of: competitors."

and where was Chuck Daly in all of this?....why did HE not fight for Zeke?
That is something I NEVER understood...

The whole thing was a D@mn shame....and the documentary was very hard to watch....Jordan, Pippen, Magic.....spearheaded the movement....make no mistake about that!

[Grizz]

Didnt know McCloskey fought so hard for Thomas to be on the team .. and had such strong feelings .. Know many of us were pissed off and rightly so ... McCloskey said a lot of good and true things in this interview .... I say RIGHT ON to it all and mad respect to McCloskey for having so much integrity on this ... It was really all bull shit from the Bulls involved ... and was 100 times worse than Thomas walking off the court in 1991 ... If you cannot put aside ill will from simply competing .. you are pretty much not a man ..


McCloskey resigned from the 1992 USA Basketball Olympic committee after Isiah Thomas' omission. And 20 years later, "angry" doesn't quite describe his feelings in full.

"It's very simple," McCloskey said from his home in Savannah, Ga. "When you can't get the no. 1 guy in basketball (at his position) and one who promoted his team so well and played so well, that was ridiculous."

McCloskey, on the mend from rotator cuff surgery these days, was asked if he'd let it go yet.

"No," he said. "Absolutely (not)."

The "Dream Team" documentary that aired Wednesday night has sparked a lot of conversation about things that happened two decades ago.

Old stories are being rehashed and new ones finally are coming to light.

"I made it public that it was a disgrace, the fact Isiah wasn't a part of it," said McCloskey, the architect of the Pistons' back-to-back titles in 1989 and '90. "I couldn't understand it."

Bulls stars Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen made no bones about the fact they didn't want Thomas, a bitter rival from the days the Pistons and Bulls routinely met in the playoffs.

"What happened behind closed doors, I can't answer that," McCloskey said of Jordan's alleged role in keeping Thomas off. "I was upset about it."

The Dream Team went on to win a gold medal.

Thomas issued a statement Wednesday night after the documentary aired.

"Today, like all Americans, I congratulate the Dream Team on their anniversary. I am proud of my career in the NBA and have fond memories of going head to head with all the members of the team," Thomas said. "I can't speak to the selection process as I wasn't involved. But 20 years later, their gold medal is still a momentous achievement."




"I don't think what happened there would have any more to do (than anything else)," McCloskey said. "He established what he could do. His reputation, his skills and competitiveness, and that was what our team was made of: competitors."

and where was Chuck Daly in all of this?....why did HE not fight for Zeke?
That is something I NEVER understood...

The whole thing was a D@mn shame....and the documentary was very hard to watch....Jordan, Pippen, Magic.....spearheaded the movement....make no mistake about that!

Right Rhett .. never understood Daley's lack of comments and input .. I think the only thing he ever said is that he was not on the selection committee and could not control it .. We would all have liked him to say that he would not coach the Dream Team if Thomas was not on it .. The whole thing was simply about who were the great players in the most golden era of stars the NBA ever enjoyed ... Thomas surely was the 4th greatest player of the era.... I mean .. The Dream Team was NEVER about facing some tremendous challenge of winning the Gold Medal .. You could have taken a team of NBA bench players and still have won the gold medal .. So the whole logic of who was on the team was based on the greatest players of the era ... Larry Bird was certainly not an elite player at the time .. so it was made up of the elite players of the 80s .. and Thomas not being there was simply the result of some sore LOSERS! Yeah . that is right .. Thomas and the Bad Boys took it to all those teams and of all the teams of that era .. The Bad Boys were the most feared .. because no team had more heart and determination ...

[Rett]

Magic was on ESPN the day before the documentary was aired...


and had the audacity to say:..."Isiah absolutely should have been on the Dream Team."
(SMH)

I'm like...Oh Really?....that is certainly NOT what he said in his book!!

[Rett]

Column: Jordan, Pippen, Magic, Stern all hypocrites over Isiah-gate
The 1st article written telling it like it is.....Excellent read.



I don't know how to post the link or I would have done that...<(

[Oracle]

Column: Jordan, Pippen, Magic, Stern all hypocrites over Isiah-gate
The 1st article written telling it like it is.....Excellent read.



I don't know how to post the link or I would have done that...<(

Goodwill and Excellent are two words never used together in Piston forum history!!!

However, I have to agree, he NAILED this article, and had the courage to call folks out!

[Rett]

Column: Jordan, Pippen, Magic, Stern all hypocrites over Isiah-gate
The 1st article written telling it like it is.....Excellent read.



I don't know how to post the link or I would have done that...<(

Goodwill and Excellent are two words never used together in Piston forum history!!!

However, I have to agree, he NAILED this article, and had the courage to call folks out!

I know.....And agree with you...
But, have to hand it to Goodwill......like you said..."he nailed this article"

[Phil-Good]

I know everybody want to see A big man to play along side the Moose. But reality is that guy might not be around at 9. So take the best player available.


If that's A guard then so be it. You can't force it.. When Charlie Vanilla and Ben Gordon come off the books the Pistons will have lots of money to go out and buy the Moose A partner.

So for now I'm looking at J.Lamb, J.Sullinger, Austin Rivers or moving down.

[deusXango]

I know everybody want to see A big man to play along side the Moose. But reality is that guy might not be around at 9. So take the best player available.


If that's A guard then so be it. You can't force it.. When Charlie Vanilla and Ben Gordon come off the books the Pistons will have lots of money to go out and buy the Moose A partner.

So for now I'm looking at J.Lamb, J.Sullinger, Austin Rivers or moving down.

Hey, Phillip-Boy, you had my total attention until you mentioned who you're looking at; J. Lamb, J. Sullinger, and Austin Rivers can be duplicated (and possibly exceeded in the second round), but you came out of that nose-dive rather nicely when you suggested moving down. The more I look at who the national media is trying to pin on the Pistons as the #9 pick, the more it makes sense to me to move down in this draft.

Who's to say that we don't already have a partner for the Moose? How can anyone say with a clear conscience that any 6' 9-10", 235 lb. PF taken at #9 can out perform Vernon Macklin? One thing's for certain, Macklin's been around the league, and he knows what Lil' Larry expects of his players. Also it's a reason the Pistons want to keep Macklin on board.

What we need P-Boy is athleticism, perimeter defenders, and players with basketball smarts and skills. We need to replace as many of our selfish players with team players as we can. That's what this draft should be about for us, not looking for a quick fix with that one special player at #9. There's also a FA signing period for a reason; our GM's job goes beyond the draft and he should be planning for every eventuality and possibility. That's what he gets the big bucks for. We may have to unass that #9 pick as a part of a major salary dump also.

Best player available or the best avenue toward success; there are no sure fire bigs at where we'll be drafting.

[Phil-Good]

I have no problem blowing this thing up and re-booting it up with B.Knight, The Moose, and Jones Jerebko. Those are the three guys who I like the most and they are good building blocks.

I like Rodney Stuckey but I don't see him having A very long career. Same for D.Wade. Too many injuries.

It's not going to happen over nite but if everybody does they job and research the Pistons will be in A good position to have success.

[merc]

I know everybody want to see A big man to play along side the Moose. But reality is that guy might not be around at 9. So take the best player available.


If that's A guard then so be it. You can't force it.. When Charlie Vanilla and Ben Gordon come off the books the Pistons will have lots of money to go out and buy the Moose A partner.

So for now I'm looking at J.Lamb, J.Sullinger, Austin Rivers or moving down.

While I'm not overly excited about the big man prospects their should be other teams wanting to jump into the 9th pick... I look at this as a must year for landing the needed PF/C or we could easily be in a Hampster cage for several years.

[deusXango]

A simple solution is to look at what can be done to acquire Omer Asik and Tyreke Evans via free agent signing, and work back from there. The Pistons need young players badly, that can play the game, and bring fans back to the Palace. Right now there are only three fan favorites (really), who people want to see; Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, and Jonas Jerebko.

Dumars must sign Singler, should keep Macklin, and get the most value from the picks he has. If he makes another mistake like he did when he drafted Daye, Summers, and Jerebko, in that order, and Jerebko turned out to be the best of the lot, it'll mean he wasted the #9 pick! There are some good players going in the second round, and some players slated to go in the mid to late first round that are probably better than some lottery picks. I think it'll be a huge mistake if Dumars doesn't find a way to make a trade with Houston for their picks (#14 and #16), and use them for the best players available, along with the suggested signings.

Last thought: Charlie V., Austin Daye, and Will Bynum to Washington for Andre Blatche.....Amnesty Blatche! Why pay players to take up roster space and time away from up and coming players? That's the bitter pill Dumars must make Mr. Gores understand he should swallow for the development of his team. I'm sitting back until after the draft, when Joe selects John Henson with #9, but I'll be watching the progress of Royce White and Jeff Taylor and Scott Machado and Kyle O'Quinn wherever they go. I'll also be pulling for Henson, 'cause he'll be one of ours.

[Phil-Good]

Xango you are so in love with V.Mac. I hate to bring you back to earth but if he was so good he would kick ass in practice and make everybody notice that he is A special player.


I hate to be the one to break the news to you but V.Mack is A so so player and he has been given plenty of opportunity to kick ass in practice everyday!


He is not the next Tim Duncan Xango so let the V.Mack love fest pass in the wind like when you pass gas in the public!

Sorry to tell you but he is not that guy!

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