External Motivation

[lemonpen]

Maybe our thoroughbred responds best to embarrassment as opposed to the whip.

This masterpiece was very likely the result of an All Star snub.  A few weeks back Dre put up a run of solid performances after having his arse majorly called out AND roundly stomped by Embide.    
Hopefully at some point Andre will develop a means of internally motivating himself to this level.  

It was kinda nice to see him go hard at a top shot blocker.

[Oracle]

I'm satisfied, you recognized his accomplishment, that's all I wanted to see.

Your other points are 100% valid and I feel the same way, I want to see something close to this level every night. Then and ONLY then does he get to be anywhere near Big Ben, Laimbeer or Lanier.

But he needs coaching! It's amazing the improvements he's making, I used to doubt his commitment to getting better, but I can see it's there, he just needs more help. It's performances like this that not only shows us what he can do, it shows him what he needs to do.

So I'm like you, this was great, but I'm not satisfied and Drummond shouldn't be either.

Having said that, Drummond is the LEAST of this teams problems!

[WTF]

What the hell are you guys trying to prove?

Drummond had a fantastic game, record book good and all you want to do is complain, denigrate his accomplishment? I don't get it!

@Sparma: Who cares if someone did it during cave man days? Is the goal to take away from what he did? I do credit you with fairness on both sides by praising his as well.

@Wise: So if someone during the recorded era came close, what is your argument? Why would you be looking for ways to diminish what he did.

The real issue is that if you watched this game and didn't recognize that what Drummond did wasn't special, you need better basketball glasses. Look, I know you guys are trying to look at a bigger picture, but let's not let this accomplishment get lost in the trees.

My first impression was that I had seen something different from Drummond(and I said it right away), I was impressed but didn't know how special it was, but I knew I had seen something really good.

Then there's Don, with another one of those fake posts! "Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?"

Well you can and should if your were a Piston fan. I've seen you giddy with Singler's numbers and Knight's numbers in many losses before. I've seen you rave about Stanley's play in amazing losses, and Bradley silly crap while screwing up the whole team.

But you can't be happy for Drummond because we lost due to HORRIBLE coaching(see Lemon's post)? Sick!

Honestly Oracle I would be happier if we were talking him actually averaging that 20/20 I so desire to see out him.  I think we recognize it was a great performance but there are buts  I think Lemon and Don points that it came in a loss does take away from it, worse that it was against a team we should have easily beaten.  Reality is we could probably feel better about it if this same performance was duplicated in the previous 5 losses.

Also I think Sparma assessment was that it was a great performance just as you were thinking my rebuttal was to just keep it in it's proper context as great as a performance as it was it wasn't an uncommon feat beyond the actual numbers being the same.  I just hate when these moments happen we're acting like we haven't seen great moments before.  

Again I'm not as easily impress by it because I can only look at it in it's entirety especially when he's mention in the same breathe as great players like Ben and Bill. I'm only interested in Next Level at this point so what happens if he lays an egg in the next 2 games that's that may or may happen but it could and then what will this performance matter.

[WTF]

@Sparma, There's not a doubt that Andre's performance was nothing but spectacular and I do give him that.  I just doubt have a one game view of him and wish he was more along the line of this statement you offered of Wilt averages about 24/24/8 assists I think that's fair to ask, but I'm only asking him for a consistent 20/20 and perhaps a couple of blocks.  

I'm not trying to talk down Andre's performance I just refuse to talk it up beyond it being a spectacular performance.  I'm just saying that there's be a ton of individual performances like this rather they been exact in numbers.  But in playing the if game I don't think Andre would fair very well with either Bill or Ben because this guys where good in their own right.   I don't think they benefitted from the players they played with, Andre is physically more gifted than both of them but Bill did his thing against the best centers and Ben dominated players centers just like Andre.  

I'm just saying that we've seen incredible games by Bill and Ben in more pressure moments in bigger games.  In one playoff season Bill averaged 17 rebounds I think its was the season we lost to Boston in the ECF before our first trip to the Finals.  Bill wasn't going up against scrub centers every night either seems every team had a dominated big.   I don't think he's ready to be compared to those 2 not yet anyway.

Where was this performance when he face D Howard,  where was this performance in the 3 losses to Philly?  I'm hard on Andre for good reason so petting him on his head for something he should be doing more often than not is just too hard to do.

[Oracle]

What the hell are you guys trying to prove?

Drummond had a fantastic game, record book good and all you want to do is complain, denigrate his accomplishment? I don't get it!

@Sparma: Who cares if someone did it during cave man days? Is the goal to take away from what he did? I do credit you with fairness on both sides by praising his as well.

@Wise: So if someone during the recorded era came close, what is your argument? Why would you be looking for ways to diminish what he did.

The real issue is that if you watched this game and didn't recognize that what Drummond did wasn't special, you need better basketball glasses. Look, I know you guys are trying to look at a bigger picture, but let's not let this accomplishment get lost in the trees.

My first impression was that I had seen something different from Drummond(and I said it right away), I was impressed but didn't know how special it was, but I knew I had seen something really good.

Then there's Don, with another one of those fake posts! "Who can be happy with AD's stats when the team lost while creating over 20 turnovers?"

Well you can and should if your were a Piston fan. I've seen you giddy with Singler's numbers and Knight's numbers in many losses before. I've seen you rave about Stanley's play in amazing losses, and Bradley silly crap while screwing up the whole team.

But you can't be happy for Drummond because we lost due to HORRIBLE coaching(see Lemon's post)? Sick!

[Sparma]

I partly agree with Wise's caveats; I'd just like to hear acknowledgement from him that Drummond's achievement was truly spectacular.

Caveat 1: I doubt that AD's numbers are unprecedented.  Wilt's career ran through 1972-73; at an ESPN site, he credited with no blocks or steals!  The mention of no equivalent since 1973-'74 likely signifies that that's when official records of blocks and steals started.  We know that Wilt led the league in assists one year.  I've read estimates that he frequently got 10 blocks in a game.  Steals by centers (as for AD and Ben W) are often based on strength and quick hands, both of which Wilt had.  So I'd guess that Wilt for one, did equal AD's numbers.  We don't know that there's no precedent; we can make a reasonable guess that that there has been.

Caveat 2: Bill James's pointed out that focusing on the exact combination of numbers of an accomplishment (eg above .316 with 34 doubles, 6 triples, and 24 HRs) can lead to idiosyncratic, even misleading, comparisons.  I'm not claiming that AD's stats were the greatest ever, just that they were really great.  Aside from averaging 50/25 one year, Wilt averaged about 24/24/8 assists for two seasons, no doubt with a ton of blocks added.

Comparisons with Piston greats: I love and admire Laimbeer and Ben Wallace.  I'm trying to praise AD by placing him in conversation with them, not talk them down. In all, I'm presently inclined to go with a Lanier, Wallace, Drummond, Laimbeer ranking among Piston centers now. Won't be able to complete the comparison until AD's career is in the books. We've been blessed by an incredible set of centers!

That said, one thing that seems clear to me is that if Bill or Ben could be teleported to go up against Andre 1:1, he'd destroy them.

Bill also made 4 All-Star teams.  Both Bill and Ben benefited from Centers have their own slot, or two really, on the All Star teams.  Andre, at 24!!, would at least be sitting at 2, if not more if it still were that way.

Ben has an impressive set of honors, no doubt.  If I'm counting right, at Andre's age, Ben was on the bench in Washington, while Bill was an ordinary center in Cleveland, about to be traded to Detroit.  Andre, by contrast, just set a youngest ever mark in rebounding.

Yes, Ben was truly great on D.  He also averaged 5.7 ppg for this career, only twice going over 9 ppg (the first time with serious help from an innovative Larry Brown).  That's about where I'd project Eric Moreland's production, if he were given Ben's numbers.  Ben could be a serious drag on the O; not so for Andre, who makes a good, though not great, offensive contribution. And more controversially: I think Ben offered little resistance to Shaq in the finals, getting pushed around easily.  Great D, yes, but not against the best.  I can't picture AD getting pushed around like that, although in fairness Embiid has punked him pretty good in other ways.

Switching briefly back to yesterday's game, and to Boban: in the 2nd quarter, with Boban playing a lot, Kelser commented that he really liked the tandem of Centers SVG was using, as they were both capable of putting pressure on Gobert.  Blaha said he wanted to see Boban go up against Gobert; once Boban destroyed him on a play, both he and Kelser praised him. Boban didn't do much in the 2nd half (partly due to SVG limiting his opportunities), but did end up neutral (0) for the game, third best on the team, with only Kennard and Tolliver + for the night.  The idea that he just shouldn't be playing against Utah didn't occur to Kelser (a company man, but one I regard as not only astute but also honest and frank, albeit politely).

[lemonpen]

After Smiths miracle steal with 13.8 seconds remaining, and having a 1 point lead, and having 2 time outs in his pocket, AND seeing his team misfire badly on its last 5 possessions, HOW COULD STAN NOT CALL AN IMMEDIATE TIME OUT TO ORGANIZE OUR LAST POSSESSION.
Someone help me, I’m bewildered. It took Utah 2 seconds to figure out to foul Dre. Plenty of time for a game reset.

Afterward all Stan could talk about was how difficult it is to win when committing 20 turnovers. Didn’t Utah’s one turn over with 13 seconds left damn near outweigh all 20 of ours.

I think I have seen enough to support relieving SVG of the coaching reins.

[lemonpen]

A week ago I laid out all of my reasons why Andre was not All Star quality. Fast forward 5 days.

When I learned of Andre’s response to the All Star snub my reaction was one of disappointment. I felt that he had a distorted view of what an All Star looked like on a nightly basis. To use a well worn phrase it seemed like his “BAR WAS LOW”.

I hope the masterpiece he painted last night is a direct result of him now carrying a Sequoia size chip on his shoulder. I hope that masterpiece reflects an upgraded realization of what ALL STAR quality is. I hope the chip on his shoulder is never to be dislodged, stoking a career-long inferno. I have never before seen THAT guy. How long before the next game?

[WTF]

I think many are putting too much mustard on this hotdog

Quadruple Doubles only the Admiral and Dream,  Kareem, Moses, Parrish and Love all recorded a 30/30 game before I'm sure that had a block or assist to go along with that stat.  

Here's a Tidbit:  Big Ben is a 4 time All Star, 4 time DPOY, 11 time ALL NBA Team in his short NBA career,    Rodman had season rebounding averages of 18 per game 3 times.  

Come on people we know better!!!

[cool breeze]

This team looks much like last season's team after the month of December. This team is the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. The offense once Ish Smith enters the game is the most primitive offensive team in the NBA as well. How can shooters be successful if the point guard takes over the entire offense and creates his own offense. This is what happened too much of the time. Smith gets lucky and beats the opponent's big man down the court and scores a layup. After that happened Smith tried it again. Then all I could see was 4 players standing around at spots while Smith dribbled. The shot clock winds down and Smith dribbles to one corner and gives up the ball when he is within 3 feet of his teammate. This happened to Harris, Tolliver, and Johnson. They are stuck now trying to beat the shot clock while now having two defenders on them. Smith trots away to the backcourt as if he has done his job. The Pistons have a defensive breakdown when AD fails to recognize the play Utah is running on the side out of bounds. Johnson is screened out. AD is the guy who is supposed to cut the baseline off but is too high. Result a layup to send the game into overtime. The coach who has his head up his rear keeps Smith in the game instead of bringing in Galloway. Somehow the head coach doesn't notice the total dysfunction going on with the Pistons half court offense. There is no offense. This is pure street basketball like a pick up type game where players play together for the first time. The team needed a different point guard so they could run a more predictable type offense that was effective earlier in the game. If you have a guy like Bradley who does well going around screens and then you see him standing because no offense is being run, then the coach should recognize that something is wrong. No adjustment by the head coach who is in la la land.

Keeping your head in the game is important if you are the coach. In the 3rd quarter the Pistons were looking good until SVG brought in Boban. This was not a good game to use Boban. Any coach in their right mind should have recognized that fact and if they did play him, it should have been clear after 3 turnovers in a row that someone else should have been playing center for the Pistons.

Harris is the victim of a dysfunctional offense. He is expected to make contested shots and create shots in a dysfunctional offense. Harris is confused. He is now shooting the ball without getting a good base. His body is floating. His timing is off. He is shooting the ball in the paint off balance much like Smith. But his worst trait lately is his lack of energy on the boards. Tobias is not rebounding the basketball or playing even average defense in the paint or outside the paint. Last night Tolliver should have been in the game more in the 4th quarter. It was Tolliver who dug the Pistons out a a huge hole created by the coach playing Boban.

My final comment is one that is scary and i will bet that all of you who watched the Pistons lose to a horrible NBA team that has lost a lot of games this season will agree with this observation. The Piston players look very confused on both offense and defense. I have seldom seen a team this far along in the season look so confused as a team that has now played together for a long time. On offense, the pistons appear to play the most primitive offense in the NBA. Only a few players recognize situations on the court and take advantage of those situations. Who got the ball into AD the most for easy shots around the rim last night? It was Stanley Johnson. He would penetrate and know that AD's man had to switch onto him and then could make a safe pass to the fully engaged AD. Simple plays when you use your head can work. This type of play seldom happened last night. And players seem to be rushing too much while making bad decisions as if they are in a panic situation before the 4th quarter arrives. They have the got to get the shot up look on their faces even when they do not have a high percentage chance of making the shot.

The Pistons have turned themselves into a lottery team. Why not get as high up in draft position as possible. If the coach wants the circus act with Smith so be it. Just continue to lose and make sure the games are not close. We don't want to win too many more games. Trade any of the high contract players that you can including AD. His numbers mean nothing. If the Pistons could trade Drummond with a deal for first round picks and force that team to take Reggie Jackson or Tobias Harris, the Pistons will be back in good financial shape. Now they are in a bad financial position with a horrible team on a 6 game losing streak while playing games at home against losing lottery teams. Start playing Ellenson and all of the players who are 23 and younger. Bring in players from the G League just for fun. This last game was a horribly played game by the Pistons even while they played hard with great energy. Last season they played with less energy so I guess you could say the Pistons are improving. Who ever is in charge of the point guards has been doing a horrible job now for several years.

[WTF]

The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois

It might be a 1st but I would still like to see how close the next player was to those exact stats stats.  Of course Keith wouldn't add that because it'll take away from the obsessive hyping he wants to apply to this moment.   

I'm just saying what if the opposing player or any player for that matter had a stat line of 24 points, 30 rebounds, 10 blocks, assist and 2 steals would it be any less or more impressive that what Andre put up?   Simply can't view this as being the greatest thing we've ever seen when we have all have witness performances like this many times by numerous players.  

See this kind of stuff IMHO is that the media far too often overstate moments like this KL an idiot

[WTF]

How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?

I could imagine that a few of those guys came very close to doing so.  I came across this list trying to find comparable games still looking, but I would find hard to believe that players like (Hakeem, Shaq, KG, Duncan, Camby and Barkley) didn't have similar games like this.  I'm sure I miss mentioning someone on that list that might have came closes.

I'm not knocking AD at all I just think moments like this get a bit overstated because there's a 50-50 chance he'll come out far short of those numbers next game.  I mean it when say his numbers should be bordering 20/20.   There's a ton of context in that list from a rebounding perspective just by looking at the number of times a player appears on it.

[Oracle]

The last person before @AndreDrummond with 30 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 blocks and 3 steals in the same game is ... no one. All those stats have been kept since 1973-74. It hasn't been done. - Keith Langlois

[Oracle]

How many of these guys did that while scoring 30 points and recording 6 blocks, 3 steals & 4 assists against a 7'2 opponent with a 8' wingspan?

[WTF]

[th]Rank[/th][th]Player[/th][th]TRB[/th][th]Date[/th][th]Tm[/th]

1.	Charles Oakley	35	1988-04-22	CHI
2.	Rony Seikaly	34	1993-03-03	MIA
	Dennis Rodman*	34	1992-03-04	DET
4.	Charles Barkley*	33	1996-11-02	HOU
	Kevin Willis	33	1992-02-19	ATL
6.	Dennis Rodman*	32	1994-01-22	SAS
	Dennis Rodman*	32	1992-01-28	DET
8.	Kevin Love	31	2010-11-12	MIN
	Dikembe Mutombo*	31	1996-03-26	DEN
	Dennis Rodman*	31	1992-03-14	DET
	Kevin Willis	31	1991-12-03	ATL
12.	Andrew Bynum	30	2012-04-11	LAL
	Dennis Rodman*	30	1995-02-21	SAS
	Michael Cage	30	1988-04-24	LAC
15.	Andre Drummond	29	2015-11-03	DET
	Timofey Mozgov	29	2014-04-10	DEN
	Nikola Vucevic	29	2012-12-31	ORL
	Dikembe Mutombo*	29	2001-01-31	ATL
	Dikembe Mutombo*	29	1999-12-14	ATL
	Dennis Rodman*	29	1997-12-27	CHI
	Dennis Rodman*	29	1993-11-09	SAS
	Herb Williams	29	1989-01-23	IND
23.	Tyson Chandler	28	2013-02-27	NYK
	Ben Wallace	28	2002-03-24	DET
	Ben Wallace	28	2001-04-17	DET
	Dikembe Mutombo*	28	2000-12-26	ATL
	Popeye Jones	28	1996-01-09	DAL
	Dennis Rodman*	28	1993-12-01	SAS
	Shaquille O'Neal*	28	1993-11-20	ORL
30.	Tyson Chandler	27	2016-01-23	PHO
	Andre Drummond	27	2015-11-08	DET
	DeAndre Jordan	27	2015-02-09	LAC
	Andrew Bogut	27	2011-01-07	MIL
	Tim Duncan	27	2010-01-27	SAS
	Marcus Camby	27	2008-12-17	LAC
	Ben Wallace	27	2006-12-15	CHI
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1997-12-29	CHI
	Charles Barkley*	27	1996-12-04	HOU
	Popeye Jones	27	1996-04-06	DAL
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1995-03-05	SAS
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1995-02-07	SAS
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1992-12-23	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1992-02-18	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	27	1992-01-23	DET
	James Donaldson	27	1989-12-29	DAL
	Buck Williams	27	1987-02-01	NJN
	Moses Malone*	27	1984-03-25	PHI
48.	Dwight Howard	26	2016-01-18	HOU
	DeAndre Jordan	26	2015-03-01	LAC
	Andre Drummond	26	2014-04-11	DET
	Andre Drummond	26	2014-03-03	DET
	Dwight Howard	26	2013-10-30	HOU
	Reggie Evans	26	2013-03-27	BRK
	Dwight Howard	26	2013-01-06	LAL
	Al Jefferson	26	2012-04-16	UTA
	Tim Duncan	26	2010-02-17	SAS
	Al Jefferson	26	2010-01-13	MIN
	Joel Przybilla	26	2008-03-22	POR
	Andris Biedrins	26	2008-01-27	GSW
	Dwight Howard	26	2006-04-15	ORL
	Erick Dampier	26	2005-01-29	DAL
	Shaquille O'Neal*	26	2004-03-21	LAL
	Lorenzen Wright	26	2001-11-04	MEM
	Chris Webber	26	2001-01-05	SAC
	Jayson Williams	26	1997-11-13	NJN
	Ervin Johnson	26	1997-04-19	DEN
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1997-01-10	CHI
	Charles Barkley*	26	1995-03-24	PHO
	Dikembe Mutombo*	26	1994-11-11	DEN
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1994-02-19	SAS
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1993-01-11	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1993-01-09	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1993-01-08	DET
	Patrick Ewing*	26	1992-12-19	NYK
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1992-02-16	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	26	1992-02-06	DET
	Charles Shackleford	26	1990-02-20	NJN
	Otis Thorpe	26	1990-02-15	HOU
	Charles Oakley	26	1986-03-15	CHI
80.	Rudy Gobert	25	2017-01-20	UTA
	DeAndre Jordan	25	2016-12-28	LAC
	Hassan Whiteside	25	2016-11-15	MIA
	Bismack Biyombo	25	2016-03-17	TOR
	Andre Drummond	25	2015-03-11	DET
	Hassan Whiteside	25	2015-03-04	MIA
	Kenneth Faried	25	2014-12-26	DEN
	Tyson Chandler	25	2014-11-26	DAL
	J.J. Hickson	25	2014-02-25	DEN
	Anderson Varejao	25	2014-01-02	CLE
	LaMarcus Aldridge	25	2013-12-12	POR
	John Henson	25	2013-04-10	MIL
	Dwight Howard	25	2012-03-13	ORL
	Ersan Ilyasova	25	2012-02-19	MIL
	Dwight Howard	25	2012-01-18	ORL
	Zach Randolph	25	2010-02-27	MEM
	Marcus Camby	25	2010-01-20	LAC
	Dwight Howard	25	2007-01-10	ORL
	Emeka Okafor	25	2006-12-29	CHA
	Kevin Garnett	25	2005-01-12	MIN
	Erick Dampier	25	2004-03-28	GSW
	Kevin Garnett	25	2003-12-05	MIN
	Tim Duncan	25	2003-02-01	SAS
	Dikembe Mutombo*	25	2000-02-18	ATL
	Jamie Feick	25	2000-01-20	NJN
	Lorenzen Wright	25	1999-03-11	LAC
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1997-12-23	CHI
	Patrick Ewing*	25	1997-02-23	NYK
	Charles Barkley*	25	1997-01-10	HOU
	Jayson Williams	25	1996-01-30	NJN
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1995-01-22	SAS
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1994-03-26	SAS
	Olden Polynice	25	1993-12-08	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1993-11-10	SAS
	Shaquille O'Neal*	25	1993-04-20	ORL
	Kevin Willis	25	1993-04-13	ATL
	Kevin Willis	25	1993-03-29	ATL
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1993-03-26	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1993-03-07	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1993-02-23	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1992-03-20	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1992-03-18	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1992-02-19	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1992-01-31	DET
	Dennis Rodman*	25	1991-12-13	DET
	Jerome Lane	25	1991-04-21	DEN
	Larry Smith	25	1991-02-16	HOU
	Larry Smith	25	1991-02-03	HOU
	Roy Tarpley	25	1990-04-01	DAL
	Hakeem Olajuwon*	25	1990-02-27	HOU
	Hakeem Olajuwon*	25	1989-12-17	HOU
	Mark Eaton	25	1989-03-15	UTA
	Hakeem Olajuwon*	25	1989-02-21	HOU
	Mark Eaton	25	1987-11-17	UTA
	Charles Barkley*	25	1987-03-24	PHI
	Charles Barkley*	25	1987-03-20	PHI
	Artis Gilmore*	25	1987-01-17	SAS
	Robert Parish*	25	1987-01-09	BOS
	Charles Barkley*	25	1986-03-30	PHI
	Robert Parish*	25	1986-03-08	BOS
	Ralph Sampson*	25	1985-12-26	HOU
	Hakeem Olajuwon*	25	1985-03-05	HOU
	Hakeem Olajuwon*	25	1985-02-14	HOU
	Edgar Jones	25	1984-03-13	SAS
	Maurice Lucas	25	1983-12-26	PHO

[Oracle]

We're missing a CLOSER!!! However, here are the main culprits.

1. Bradley sits front and center, especially in this game. Why is he playing in the 4th? Ish passes him the ball and he passes it right back, forcing Ish to be the guy taking deep 2's or 3's, and that's Reggie's game, not Ish.  Ish becomes the guy to take shots because after Bradley's fear of missing, which is real, Harris starts feeling the pressure, as did Kennard & Stanley. If Drummond wasn't converting so many of their misses, we would have been blown out.

2. SVG is doing is playing not to lose, but even worse, he can't adapt to his roster to save his life. Sparma nailed it when he said that he should have subbed in Galloway for Ish! You needed a shooter, especially if you're going to insist on playing a totally ineffective Bradley.

Drummond had a game that Lanier, Laimbeer or Big Ben would have been crying to have, he out shown all of them! This was a MONSTER performance by Drummond, and I don't say that lightly.

Wise, I agree about the 20/20 or close to it every night, but this performance was other worldly! Drummond on many occasions just wouldn't be denied, and his block of Golbert was a thing of beauty, and that game saving block of Mitchell was Big Ben like!

You're right, I'd give anything to get this level of rebounding and defense every night and I wouldn't complain if he scored a bit less.

The last reason we are losing is we need a PG, we're missing our flawed leader Reggie very badly when it comes time to close out games. Go back and see what I wrote before the season!

I said what we lose when we move BOTH KCP and Morris were closers, and that left only one in Reggie. now that Reggie is down, you can't lean on role players like Harris, who's the best of the rest. I won't put that on youngsters, it's too early to expect that they can close games regularly.

[Sparma]

Wise:
"As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself."

I think it's mlive that reports no NBA player's put up these numbers since 1973-74 (or as long as recorded).

I'm not quite sure how I'd compare Drummond to Laimbeer and Wallace on the whole (I'd have him behind Lanier), but my instinct would be to acknowledge he's weaker in some ways (defensive positioning), but also better in certain respects (offensive rebounding).

I'll stick with being skeptical that he's the guy to lead the charge, but this was a historic night for him. Evidently no (Piston) center's been known to match him in the set of statistical categories where he exceled tonight. That doesn't tell the whole story, but it's quite something.

[WTF]

If Andre was trying to make a statement it needs to go far beyond this game.  As I said this are numbers he should be putting up most nights and sporadically but he has to want this for himself.   I'm always saying there's no reason he shouldn't be a consistent 20-20 guy every game.

Still I have issues about this performance especially if it was motivated solely on being snubbed as he thinks.  Why not be motivated by the desire to win or motivated by the fact that you have 125 million dollar deal.  Forget the points and rebounds I was more impressed by the 6 blocks another thing we should see on a more consistent basis as well.

I'm not trashing him I'm just being honest and keeping it in it's proper perspective.  Also he doesn't get that free pass Sparma of who he's playing with just my opinion.  Bill couldn't jump 2 inches but play smart tough position basketball, and had range from 3 point line to the paint, he was very capable of 20-20 nightly but he was on the floor with another rebounding demon (Worm).  While I could never expect 30 point out of Big Ben he was much in the manner of Rodman a Defensive Demon.    Andre doesn't have that It Factor, that extra thing that Bill and Ben had.  

If he plays like he did tonight for the remainder of the season especially the blocks, then I'll be convince he's arrived.  These numbers he had tonight are the same number he needed to put on Embiid after being punk that first game.   

In fairness though Andre didn't lose this game as usual his coach did.  Again I'll keep stressing my point on the number of 3's why they lose games like these.  SVG say it was the 20 TO's SMH,  I guess the bad shooting had nothing to do with it. 

[Sparma]

Andre with 30 and 24, HoF numbers, and HoF game. Complaint: it seems like a lot of his bounce passes inside have gone for TOs recently. Still, let's appreciate what we have in him. His game's still got serious flaws, but in a number of significant ways he's better than B. Wallace and Laimbeer. Those guys were part of dream ensemble casts (with a superstar added in on the Bad Boys); the present cast comes nowhere near those championship teams. But Andre does, the way he played tonight, and much of this season.

Noticing the line up at 89-82 (AD, Tobias, Ish, Stanley J, and Bradley), I wondered how they were going to create O. They didn't. Tolliver and Kennard (easily the only two + guys for the night, with Boban neutral) needed to be in there for SJ (moving Harris to SF) and Bradley. It came as no surprise that they sputtered. SVG fielded a related question, saying it was the best defensive unit. Possibly, although debatable (Tolliver's been pretty great on D most of the year). But it goes back to my complaint that SVG coaches to avoid failure too much: he's coaching not to lose, when he needed to keep the offensive pressure on, go for the win (how many football games have been blown with teams playing not to lose at the end?). I may even have switched in Galloway for Ish.

All credit to Spencer the other night, but that may have been a low % percentage shot for the win. This one, you could see coming. Utah's a solid team, but our (avoidable) collapse made for a terrible loss.

[WTF]

At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!

I'm not surprised one bit

[Oracle]

At home, WTF is your deal, how bad are we???

Bradley is the WORST starter we have, and I'm including the curious start of Galloway.

What a revolting development!!!

[Oracle]

Where is the effing defense???

Mitchell needs no screens or anything, he just goes around Bradley like he isn't even there!

Seconds left, and Drummond is keeping us in this game with his defense and offense!

[Oracle]

Drummond, this is the way you fight back if you think you've been dissed, you go out and have a GREAT game!

That's exactly what the big fella did, he filled up the stat sheet and was totally impressive on BOTH ends of the floor!

Ish made a fantastic defensive play in the 4th, but Kennard just couldn't hit the shot to win it!

Bradley is too scared to take a shot... please move this guy SVG!

[WTF]

I hope this media whining about the alleged stop as well,  we all been around long enough to see what an All Star actually look like I mean really we had many over the past 20 years.  I can't think of one time that any of them didn't deserve being selected either by the fans or coaches this whining of Andre's is very disturbing to say the least.  

24 players get selected every year so every years someone feels like they've been snubbed and most don't go to twitter to whine like a little bitch about not getting selected.   You want to mad at someone be mad at yourself because you are the only reason you're sitting on the outside looking in.  Let Embiid take your spot when he publically punk you in the media then you lose 3 times to him SMH.  You got played and was too stupid to see it coming because you're a damn goof ball.

175 years in addition to the 60 years for the child.  Once you get to prison you might not make to 30 years.  I don't feel bad for you sir but its just sad that a you chose to take advantage of all those young girls.  I do think MSU should hold some accountability in this I'm just not sure to what extent it seems that someone should have know something.

Did the NFL really claim they fix games or was what I was watching was more fake/fabricate FB News?  We know refs blow calls, we know they secretly do make up calls.  Not saying games can't be fixed but it's kind of hard from a ref perspective seems more feasible and likely they a player could miss passes, drop balls, blown field goals, miss tackles.  I just think between instant replay, and challenge flags by coaches it would be a little difficult.   

SVG you too just shut up on the snub thing as well,  you know damn well he didn't deserve to go and the only reason you're speaking on it is because you bear some of blame why he didn't get selected.  In fact your so shady you probably didn't vote for him either.  Instead of pacifying him be truthful with him about why he was snubbed. 

Fire SVG Please

[Murph]

Drummond getting snubbed is just the icing on the cake to this season.  If Drummond played with Lebron or Kyrie Irving the way Love and Horford do, then the Pistons would be in contention also. And Drummond had nothing to do with Reggie Jackson getting hurt.

Oh well, I don't watch the All Star game anyway.

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