Reply to Don aka President of The Kyle Singler Fan Club

[deusXango]

Don, I appreciate you sharing your diverse background and upbringing, you're clearly a man of the times. Whatever prompted you to make your argument for Singler and Jerebko a black & white issue is misguided; a "Dukie" would make more sense, but that's not valid since Grant Hill (one of my favorite Pistons of all time) played for the Pistons and a Swedish player? Come on Don, J.J. is one of the most popular players on the squad and has across the board support of the fans, he's just been snake-bitten and played for some dumb ass coaches since his unfortunate injury.

With Singler, you know what I have a problem with? That f@cked up haircut and his non-aggressive play that you call intelligent and Oracle calls "glue." I can live with the haircut, as obviously he can, but that lazy ass SF play coming from a known trick shot artist doesn't do anything for me; why can't he be more creative with his in game passes, and drives to the rim? Why does he spot up in the corner for 3's so much and not call for the ball out top? He doesn't get the ball because he seems to be hiding from it....if he's as smart as you claim he is he knows what Jennings offensive tendencies are.

Gigi Datome is white, or I'm color blind, and he's a Euro like Jerebko; I've been championing this guy to get some extended PT at SF for the longest, even though fans have written him off as a waste, sight unseen. All I've asked is that he would receive the same opportunity Singler did when he was struggling and playing extended minutes, but he hasn't gotten anything from SVG but disdain. How in the hell can you earn MVP honors in any professional league if you can't play? Just sayin'. The scrap time he's been given he hasn't made any shots, but he's never hurt the team and he did all the things you sing the praises to Singler for.

This is not a black/white issue, but a team improvement issue and I agree with you, SVG has done a piss-poor job so far. If he's operating under the fear of Gores and "the combine" then he's no better than Joe Dumars; the difference is, as a coach he's working for a clown or as a GM he's hired a jackass to coach the team....Joe was just a clown.

[cool breeze]

Greg Monroe vs. DeMarcus Cousins
Remember when it was bandied about how much sense would it make to trade Monroe for Cousins; Cousins was a head case and could not be relied upon in the Pistons future, whereas Monroe was looked at as a reliable "rock." Today "Boogie" Cousins is one of the top big men in the NBA (without a doubt!) and leading the Kings to respectability, while the "Moose" is playing decent ball among a team of mediocres and can't wait to bolt, leaving the Pistons to whatever their fate may be.

Andre Drummond vs. Anthony Davis
These two young bucks are todays hot basketball topics; Drummond is viewed as an up and coming, albeit raw, talent who's got a long way to go before he reaches his full potential, whereas Davis is in the conversation for possibly being one of the top 5 players in the entire NBA right now!

Talk about your near misses and the need to get sh!t right....I no longer care about my win projection, but how high our lottery pick will be; if I was SVG I'd be shopping Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP right now for the highest/unprotected draft choices I could get for them and start building my team around Drummond in this summers draft! Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP are Joe's choices and the expiration of Datome's, Singler's, and Jerebko's contracts would completely clean house of Joe's picks. There are only 2-3 players I'd trade for, if I couldn't get the first round picks I was looking for, and they're Mirotic, Vonleh, and Warren.

I was getting creamed on the trade Moose for Cousins talk.  All I kept hear was how great Monroe character was and Cousin was cancer.  I could never get a valid response on what Cousin did or didn't do much in the way I get ignored when I ask the same about Josh. There was an opening to make that trade Cousins wanted to be here and he was Joe's first choice if the opportunity presented itself.  IMO Josh or Drummond would be a better pairing.

DX, Drummond is Joe pick as well and I'm not all that sure we should be trying to build around a center as raw as Andre.  IMO we should building outside in and should have started with a number of PG we overlooked in the draft.   What we need is a player that can create his own shot on a consistent basis and create opportunities for his team mates and that can only happen from PG, SG or SF positions.  We need to find or Zeke, or Grant Hill and draft or trade for another Rip, Stackhouse or Joe.  Andre need to be viewed as another Wallace, Mahorn, or even a Lamb.   I don't see any progression in Andre game so far that say's build around him, I don't even see him being a defensive anchor as Big Ben nor Lamb for that matter.  We as fans also need to stop thinking we can even mention Andre in the same breath as Davis.  

I am of the mind like Murph that perhaps we need to start from scratch, so if I could rid everyone one this team for a 1st round lottery pick I would do it and this includes trading Andre ass as well and my favorite Josh   .  

Good job and there were more than two of you who wanted that trade to happen. Moose has always been a question mark as to his ability to help a team win games. He has been the one player who has been on all the losing teams. But this year he is playing hard to get some strong offers from teams he wants to play for. This season he is not the reason why the team is losing but do I trust him? NO! And Cousins actually wanted to play for Detroit which makes this hurt even more.

[cool breeze]

Wisefan I have completed my investigation relating to why our current Piston players are losing so many games. It isn't Josh Smith's fault at all. It is coach Stan Van Gundy's fault. It appears that Stan is afraid of doing the right thing. Either he is afraid of the owner who is paying big money to a few players and believes he will be in big trouble if those players are sitting on the bench or he is afraid of the players themselves.

With the above said, it is also clear that it is still true that the devil is in the details and one cannot ignore the facts. I should state one more thing relating to so many Piston fans being upset with players who occupy the small forward position other than Josh Smith. I myself have had the good fortune of having one white parent and one black parent who have loved each other deeply for going on 50 years. I grew up in a loving household with extremely smart parents as well. I know that i am lucky in many ways and I always tell my parents that. What I am feeling with some of the fans who write on this forum is this feeling that race is somehow a factor relating to who might be potentially good NBA players. Is it true that because Kyle Singler or Jonas Jerebco have a while exterior color, you don't somehow believe are are any good for the Pistons? Or is it that Singler played at Duke and you hate any former Duke player? Or maybe you don't like players who are from Sweden. It just doesn't make any sense to me as to why so many of you believe that Detroit's problems are the cause of players who play small forward with the exception of Josh Smith. You could be white in color and believe that a white player cannot compete very well in basketball with players who have a different color. If we just look at the players on this team, it is clear that based on how well they have played, certain players are getting a screw job and other players are getting way too much playing time. This is the only reason why Detroit has lost so many games in my humble opinion. Please take a look at the following stats that are the most current and then advise of you agree or disagree with me as to what should happen.

I believe that based on the games already played, the following starting lineup should be used regardless of how much each player is making this year.

Center: Monroe
Power forward: Jerebco
Small Forward: Singler
shooting guard: Butler
point guard: Jennings

Right now there are 4 players who are dragging this team into the basement. They are Smith, KCP, Drummond and Augustin. There is just no denying that this is true based on the facts. Here are the player stats that show loud and clear what is happening.

Smith:
Average minutes per game: 33.2
Field goal %: 374%
3 point shooting: 190%
foul shooting: 46%

KCP:
Average minutes per game: 33.9
Field Goal: 352%
3 point shooting: 216%
Foul shooting: 59%

Drummond:
Average minutes: 28.5
Field goal shooting: 397%
no 3s attempted
Foul shooting: 44%

Augustin:
Average minutes: 21.5
Field goal shooting: 352%
3 point shooting: 216%
Foul Shooting: 82%

The above stats show that we have 4 key players who should never shoot the 3 point shot, and should not be the center of the offense based on their horrible field goal shooting percentages. Any idiot who looks that those stats would know something is wrong upstairs with this head coach who continues to butt his head against the wall and ignore what is happening. Meanwhile here are the players stats of what some fans call scrubs who are nothing better than 9th or 10th men relating to their potential. Something is wrong with you if you make those statements.

Jerebco:
Average minutes: 16
Field goal percentage: 518%
3 point shooting%: 400%
Foul Shooting: 1000%

Singler:
Average minutes: 22.9
Field goal %: 439%
3 point shooting: 417%
Foul Shooting: 90%

Jennings:
Average minutes: 29
Field goal %: 438%
3 point shooting: 391%
Foul Shooting: 81%

I didn't put Monroe's stats in because he is going to sign with another team next year. Also, Spencer Dinwiddie's stats were not shown because he hasn't played the position he needs to play on this team which is point guard. Thanks for that Stan. In my opinion Stan Van Gundy has rigged this team to lose as much as possible. If the coach created the offense around a passing small forward or power forward like Singler and Jerebco, then we fans would see a more exciting team play basketball. The ball needs to be spread around and more players need to be involved in the offense than one or two players. If the coach gave playing time to Spencer at point guard coming off the bench then the 2nd unit of Smith, Drummond, KCP, Datome or another small forward, and Dinwiddie could be a great defensive minded unit. If the coach reduced the minutes for Smith and took the pressure off him to produce points, I think we would see a different Josh Smith who would make more shots and block more shots and become a better leader on the floor. Drummond would also have less pressure and could have more fun. KCP could look much better playing against 2nd unit players. This lineup makes all the sense in the world Piston fans. Right now Stan Van Gundy is responsible for causing almost every loss this team has suffered because he is ignoring the facts. And it is a given that every NBA team that is about to play Detroit has broken down what I have written in this post and have smiled a lot before they play the Pistons. So far this head coach is an idiot.

[WTF]

Greg Monroe vs. DeMarcus Cousins
Remember when it was bandied about how much sense would it make to trade Monroe for Cousins; Cousins was a head case and could not be relied upon in the Pistons future, whereas Monroe was looked at as a reliable "rock." Today "Boogie" Cousins is one of the top big men in the NBA (without a doubt!) and leading the Kings to respectability, while the "Moose" is playing decent ball among a team of mediocres and can't wait to bolt, leaving the Pistons to whatever their fate may be.

Andre Drummond vs. Anthony Davis
These two young bucks are todays hot basketball topics; Drummond is viewed as an up and coming, albeit raw, talent who's got a long way to go before he reaches his full potential, whereas Davis is in the conversation for possibly being one of the top 5 players in the entire NBA right now!

Talk about your near misses and the need to get sh!t right....I no longer care about my win projection, but how high our lottery pick will be; if I was SVG I'd be shopping Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP right now for the highest/unprotected draft choices I could get for them and start building my team around Drummond in this summers draft! Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP are Joe's choices and the expiration of Datome's, Singler's, and Jerebko's contracts would completely clean house of Joe's picks. There are only 2-3 players I'd trade for, if I couldn't get the first round picks I was looking for, and they're Mirotic, Vonleh, and Warren.

I was getting creamed on the trade Moose for Cousins talk. All I kept hear was how great Monroe character was and Cousin was cancer. I could never get a valid response on what Cousin did or didn't do much in the way I get ignored when I ask the same about Josh. There was an opening to make that trade Cousins wanted to be here and he was Joe's first choice if the opportunity presented itself. IMO Josh or Drummond would be a better pairing.

DX, Drummond is Joe pick as well and I'm not all that sure we should be trying to build around a center as raw as Andre. IMO we should building outside in and should have started with a number of PG we overlooked in the draft. What we need is a player that can create his own shot on a consistent basis and create opportunities for his team mates and that can only happen from PG, SG or SF positions. We need to find or Zeke, or Grant Hill and draft or trade for another Rip, Stackhouse or Joe. Andre need to be viewed as another Wallace, Mahorn, or even a Lamb. I don't see any progression in Andre game so far that say's build around him, I don't even see him being a defensive anchor as Big Ben nor Lamb for that matter. We as fans also need to stop thinking we can even mention Andre in the same breath as Davis.

I am of the mind like Murph that perhaps we need to start from scratch, so if I could rid everyone one this team for a 1st round lottery pick I would do it and this includes trading Andre ass as well and my favorite Josh .

[deusXango]

Greg Monroe vs. DeMarcus Cousins
Remember when it was bandied about how much sense would it make to trade Monroe for Cousins; Cousins was a head case and could not be relied upon in the Pistons future, whereas Monroe was looked at as a reliable "rock." Today "Boogie" Cousins is one of the top big men in the NBA (without a doubt!) and leading the Kings to respectability, while the "Moose" is playing decent ball among a team of mediocres and can't wait to bolt, leaving the Pistons to whatever their fate may be.

Andre Drummond vs. Anthony Davis
These two young bucks are todays hot basketball topics; Drummond is viewed as an up and coming, albeit raw, talent who's got a long way to go before he reaches his full potential, whereas Davis is in the conversation for possibly being one of the top 5 players in the entire NBA right now!

Talk about your near misses and the need to get sh!t right....I no longer care about my win projection, but how high our lottery pick will be; if I was SVG I'd be shopping Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP right now for the highest/unprotected draft choices I could get for them and start building my team around Drummond in this summers draft! Smith, Monroe, Jennings, and KCP are Joe's choices and the expiration of Datome's, Singler's, and Jerebko's contracts would completely clean house of Joe's picks. There are only 2-3 players I'd trade for, if I couldn't get the first round picks I was looking for, and they're Mirotic, Vonleh, and Warren.

[Oracle]

[WTF]

Only you could overstate something so irrelevant 1.90 shooting percentage on 3's. Yeah this would be an very ugly stat if he was jacking up 5 a game but what your choosing to leave out is that Josh take the least attempts a game on the team almost a clip of 1 a game. You'll have to do better than that with your Josh hating attempts. If he was shooting them in abundance like last season you would probably have a point but he isn't so try something else.

Really collectively as a team they all suck and I really don't think Josh's 1 attempt a game makes it that much worse.

[Phil-Good]

KCP is the only 2-guard on the team right now. He will be good one day. A D.Christie, A.Afflalo, Toney Allen type of SG. KCP will be just fine one day. Great, hardworking kid. But he not ready.

SF is A weak position. Butler and Singler are playing as well as you can expect from back-up guys. But A big dogg, starting SF needs to step in and control that position full time.


PF is solid. Center is solid. The bigs boys can't shoot FT or jumpers but they big boys. If all they were ask to do was score in the paint, rebound, defend, play hard and don't worry about having to score..guard like points, and make guard like shots, this unit with JJ, Mose, Smith and Drummonds would be just fine.

The back-up PG position is solid!! The starting PG position is AVG to below AVG. The Pistons could use A upgrade the

Team defense is solid. The reason why Detroit can't win games is because the starting PG, SG and SF positions are in need of leadership, experience and talent

[deusXango]

Oracle, thanks for the words of reason and wisdom, I don't know what the hell I am expecting, a miracle perhaps? The most compelling statement you made is, "This team was a sh!t stain, and we're acting like it should be completely turned around in 13 games!" Desperation is my problem, not Smith, not Jennings, not Singler, not KCP, not the big fellas, I'm just desperate for a winning team.

[Oracle]

There is good news!

I had to look in the mirror, because I'm sounding worse than Gores!

This team was a sh!t stain, and we're acting like it should be completely turned around in 13 games!

Well, if SVG had done that, the problems wouldn't have been as bad as everyone has been saying for the last few years!

Last year we were giving up more than 100 points per game, and it's down to the high 90's... that's significant progress!

Now he has to work the other end and tighten up the offensive mistakes while trying to hang on to the defensive progress.

Folks, this sh!t isn't easy because SVG has to change what these guys had gotten comfortable with and replace it with the right stuff.

Then that right stuff has to become instinct, and not something they have to constantly think about!

The biggest thing that can happen right now is for the players to STFU and just buy into the system!

Fans, will complain and point out problems, but right now, SVG shouldn't hear us until he knows whatever he's doing is a sure failure due to lack of talent or fit to his system.

Stan, I'm glad I don't have your job right now!!!

[deusXango]

Turkoglu, Stephenson, Pierce, Collison, Carter, Ariza.....just a few FA's GM SVG never heard of, or felt he had no need for. Big PG's? Vasquez and Livingston were signed by somebody this summer, for less than the checks F@ckin' Jodie Meeks are cashing. For any who think Meeks scoring will make a difference, right now he's shooting worse than Josh Smith....he ain't scoring at all!!!

[cool breeze]

JOSH SMITH HAS REDUCED HIS 3 POINT SHOOTING PERCENTAGE TO .190%.

BUT THIS STAT TELLS IT ALL ABOUT THE PISTON DEFENSE. ANDRE DRUMMOND LEADS THE TEAM WITH AN AVERAGE OF 1.5 BLOCKS PER GAME.SO OUR BIG THREE IS LED BY ANDRE DRUMMOND'S 1.5 BLOCKS A GAME. MAYBE THE PISTONS COULD SIGN DENNIS RODMAN FOR ONE MONTH AND SEE IF HE COULD BEAT DRUMMOND'S STATS FOR BLOCKS. HOW CAN YOU WIN IF AN OPPONENT KNOWS THAT THEY CAN SHOOT OVER YOU WITHOUT ANY THREAT THAT OUR BIG GUYS WILL ATTEMPT TO BLOCK THEIR SHOT? MONROE GETS HIS HANDS UP BUT SELDOM EVER ATTEMPTS TO BLOCK A SHOT. SMITH LOSES CONCENTRATION SO MUCH HIS GUY GETS BEHIND HIM FOR LAYUPS.

I HAVE READ THE INFORMATION RELATING TO HOW KCP HAS BEEN IMPACTED BY THE DEFENSIVE PLAN CREATED BY SVG. WHILE THEY SAY JENNINGS HAS ADJUSTED WELL, KCP'S NUMBERS ARE DOWN FROM LAST SEASON. SO JENNINGS NUMBERS LOOK GOOD WHILE I SEE JENNINGS GETTING BEAT OFF THE DRIBBLE A LOT MORE THAN KCP. WHAT IF BRANDON KNIGHT WERE PLAYING NEXT TO KCP. WOULD KCP BE ALLOWED TO GET INTO THE PASSING LANES MORE?

YET STAN VAN GUNDY'S SYSTEM HAS REDUCED OPPONENTS TOTAL POINTS A GAME ALLOWED. THIS IS A POSITIVE STAT BUT DO ANY OF YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THIS TEAM CAN MAKE A CRITICAL STOP WHEN IT COUNTS AT THE END OF GAMES? WHEN YOU HAVE TO SIGN A GUY LIKE ANTHONY AND ACTUALLY PLAY HIM IN REGULAR SEASON GAMES, YOU HAVE TO KNOW SVG IS NOT CONFIDENT IN HIS BIG THREE. AND FOR SURE THE FANS WHO USED TO ATTEND PISTON GAMES HAVE LOST CONFIDENCE IN THE ENTIRE OPERATION.

[deusXango]

"I think that we have people good enough to win and we haven't done it," Van Gundy said. "And by we, I mean me, assistant coaches, players, everybody. We haven't done a good enough job to get that done. That's a harsh reality to face. It would be easier to say, 'Well, this happened, that happened.' No, we haven't done a good job. And me, in particular, I'm responsible, I haven't done a good enough job. That's not fun to look at it that way but its hard to run away from reality."

Fans, this for me is a "man up" statement that Joe Dumars never came close to making when he ran the show; that being said, what does he intend to do about it?

Datome dinged again: Gigi Datome, who missed time early in the season with a hamstring pull, suffered a right ankle sprain and also is listed as questionable for Tuesday. "Between he and Cartier (Martin), there's usually an injury," Van Gundy deadpanned.

This for me is a "cop out" statement, dripping with bias and prejudice; Datome hasn't been lame and unable to contribute for the duration of preseason and the games so far....he's been Van Gundy's prime DNP-CD along with Mitchell and Dinwiddie, and for a while, Jerebko! The fact is, half the FA acquisitions he signed have been non-contributors due to injury! Gray, Martin, and Meeks ain't done sh!t for us and the hat of hope can be hung on those guys, but don't damn one player who's never figured in your plans; be the man Stan!

[Oracle]

Dr. Basketball is in the house.  I am the self proclaimed world's foremost authority on all things basketball.  I am here to answer all of your round ball inquiries.

Question:  Why can't the Pistons shoot two pointers, three pointers, and foul shots?
Dr. Basketball:  Well it is deer hunting season in Michigan.  That means there are roughly a half million drunk guys dressed in orange, toting firearms through the woods, shooting at everything that moves.  Luckily they miss most of the time and that includes fortunate twelve point bucks and the odd dairy cow.

Question:  What does this have to do with our hoops heroes?
Dr. Basketball: It is human nature to miss your shots, especially while being legally impaired.   Also while all the husbands are away hunting four legged deer, our team has been out bagging two legged dear on the home front.  If you know what I mean? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Question: What?
Dr Basketball: After hot and heavy copulation, you lose strength, coordination, not to mention vital body fluids. Hence, you cannot make your shots.

Question:  Will Josh Smith be the answer to the Pistons problems?
Dr. Basketball: It was Eldridge Cleaver who coined the phrase,  "You are either part of the problem or part of the solution" or maybe it was Moms Mabley.  Anyway, there are fifteen players on the roster, so by my count you have fifteen problems on this team, not to mention the coaching staff, front office, and owner. That's a whole crap load of problems.

Question: How is Stan Van Gundy's health?
Dr. Basketball: Judging from my excellent two weeks of education in a Carribean medical school, not good.
Question: What's the problem?
Dr. Basketball: During the games he looks like he he is ready to pop multiple blood vessels.  His blood pressure must be 300/150.  He could use a few hits of oxygen every quarter.  Also it would be wise for the trainer to have a dephibrilator on hand to restart his heart.  I would estimate his blood sugar level at about 500, otherwise he could be on the cover of "Men's Health" magazine.

Question: Is it time for the fans to panic?
Dr. Basketball: Sound the bells, whistles, alarms, sirens, and bang the gong.  All hell is about to break loose.  Pray for the middle of April, the end of the season.  

Thank you, Dr. Basketball. Your wisdom is a national treasure.
Dr. Basketball: Just keeping it real.

Watching the Pistons is boring game, but what can one do?

Catch a few of Fennis's insights!!! I was going to highlight a few that I liked, but it was too many, so I just reposted

BTW, SVG decided to give each Piston a sobriety test before each game! Here's Josh Smith's test results(relax Wise, it's just a joke)

[Fennis Dembo]

Dr. Basketball is in the house.  I am the self proclaimed world's foremost authority on all things basketball.  I am here to answer all of your round ball inquiries.

Question:  Why can't the Pistons shoot two pointers, three pointers, and foul shots?
Dr. Basketball:  Well it is deer hunting season in Michigan.  That means there are roughly a half million drunk guys dressed in orange, toting firearms through the woods, shooting at everything that moves.  Luckily they miss most of the time and that includes fortunate twelve point bucks and the odd dairy cow.

Question:  What does this have to do with our hoops heroes?
Dr. Basketball: It is human nature to miss your shots, especially while being legally impaired.   Also while all the husbands are away hunting four legged deer, our team has been out bagging two legged dear on the home front.  If you know what I mean? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Question: What?
Dr Basketball: After hot and heavy copulation, you lose strength, coordination, not to mention vital body fluids. Hence, you cannot make your shots.

Question:  Will Josh Smith be the answer to the Pistons problems?
Dr. Basketball: It was Eldridge Cleaver who coined the phrase,  "You are either part of the problem or part of the solution" or maybe it was Moms Mabley.  Anyway, there are fifteen players on the roster, so by my count you have fifteen problems on this team, not to mention the coaching staff, front office, and owner. That's a whole crap load of problems.

Question: How is Stan Van Gundy's health?
Dr. Basketball: Judging from my excellent two weeks of education in a Carribean medical school, not good.
Question: What's the problem?
Dr. Basketball: During the games he looks like he he is ready to pop multiple blood vessels.  His blood pressure must be 300/150.  He could use a few hits of oxygen every quarter.  Also it would be wise for the trainer to have a dephibrilator on hand to restart his heart.  I would estimate his blood sugar level at about 500, otherwise he could be on the cover of "Men's Health" magazine.

Question: Is it time for the fans to panic?
Dr. Basketball: Sound the bells, whistles, alarms, sirens, and bang the gong.  All hell is about to break loose.  Pray for the middle of April, the end of the season.  

Thank you, Dr. Basketball. Your wisdom is a national treasure.
Dr. Basketball: Just keeping it real.

[Oracle]

I fear something more sinister is going on in the Pistons locker room

[cool breeze]

Jennings has an opinion about what to do during practices!

KCP has an opinion about the structure of the defense!

SVG's response!

If only this were true Oracle.

[Oracle]

Jennings has an opinion about what to do during practices!

KCP has an opinion about the structure of the defense!

SVG's response!

[WTF]

Where I'm going is this!

I know you've been around the block once or twice, but in life as in sports, everybody matures at different rates, and in the NBA, it is tied to the cast of coaches and players around you.

You, for some reason want to call the game over in the 1st quarter on players, and I don't when they have talent and potential.

It doesn't mean that they'll always reach that potential, but I won't say that unless the proof is very obvious.

You judge everyone, except Josh, based on the screwed up situation here!

IMO, it's being here that's killing Josh, he has NEVER looked this bad in his entire career, and you act like the stats can cover up the smell of his poor play! Something is wrong, and covering it up isn't fooling anybody, we all see it!

DX, you've also been screaming for JJ to get PT at the SF, and for some reason, maybe the losing, I'm just now seeing what you guys were talking about!

Oracle, I'm not blind to Josh shortcomings as a player and I defend him with the same zealousness that I've defended previous players I've defended an you already know why I do it. I hate the overkill of criticism tossed at a player unfairly because he's happen to be the highest paid and expectation are set quite truthfully is unfair and without real merit.

I have talked about Josh's poor shooting, I have talked about the weight gain and how it seem to make him less athletic, and I even acknowledge the occasional bone-head plays. But the entire team does dumbshit some more obvious and more often than Josh does, but somehow it's okay for everyone but Josh screw up. And still to this date no one has ever pointed out a single game where Josh play was the cause of it.

I also agree that Josh is playing the worse ball of his career and it's in large part to his environment IMO. BTW I don't see Knight as a PG and likely won't but I don't deny Knight having talent he just in my eyes will never be the PG many of folks make him out to be. I could be wrong but that's a hell of a lot more many of you give Josh credit for...

[cool breeze]

Singler and JJ played a combined 36 minutes just 1 minute more than Josh and still couldn't produce better stats than Josh.  You all may not like Josh but please stop thinking either of this 2 role players are better and should start.

Wisefan this owner could have obtained perhaps several quality players for the amount of money he is paying Josh Smith. What are you looking at relating to the stats Wisefan? Josh Smith turns the ball over exceptionally well. His shooting percentage in every category is so low that he shouldn't be allowed to be compared to Kyle Singler who seldom takes a bad shot and always makes the right pass for his team. Singler never takes a play off and never loses his concentration allowing his man to sneak behind him when playing small forward to get a layup. That crap would get you benched in high school. The bottom line Wisefan is that no team will win anything if your highest paid player on the team plays like Josh Smith. We need to get rid of playing like Smith and others if the Pistons ever expect to have a chance for the title again. I only wish that I could get my money back relating to my subscription to PASS. I suspect the attendance will become even lower as the winter sets in and even those of us who only have the opportunity to watch the Pistons on television will tune this team out. I will still watch if the coach plays only the team orientated players.

But Wisefan I agree that the plight of the Pistons should not all fall on Josh Smith's shoulders. Just think if Brandon Jennings started the offense on the opposite side of the court from Smith and maybe passed the ball to Singler. Then maybe a pick could be set for Smith on the opposite side so Smith could make a cut to set him free for easy scores around the basket, we might all be saying damn Josh Smith is a terrific player. But that is not happening. And I do see that Smith can see the court and does make some good passes to open players. But there is too much pressure on him because the offense is run through him. Get a damn point guard who has some brains.

[cool breeze]

Anthony Davis scored scored 43 points and got 14 rebounds last night. How did the Pelicans get Anthony Davis? Yes they got him because they had a high draft pick. Detroit has had scrub NBA teams now for over 6 years. The Pistons never are able to lock in a top 3 pick and because of the short sighted owner didn't even get a top 7 pick this season. We got none Tom Gores. I am tired of this attempt by fans and news writers to muddy the water by saying past Piston coaches were terrible or the player combinations used were wrong. No we had Charlie V taking up a lot of payroll money along with Rodney Stuckey. Joe Dumars decided to try to calm down Richard Hamilton after he made the bogus trade involving Billups after it was well known Hamilton was way past his prime. Now we have Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings who are rejects from two other teams who are trying to build competitive teams the right way. Why is Piston management always so short sighted? Why are they willing to settle for a team that is the 7th or 8th worst team in the NBA while attempting to spin the idea that the players they have selected might make the playoffs? Now is the time of sit Josh Smith on the end of the bench along with Brandon Jennings until either their contracts expire of some other chump agrees to take them in a trade. We will never win much of anything with Smith and Jennings playing big minutes and everyone in the league knows that to be the truth. And the alleged franchise player might one day become an above average defender and shot blocker but Drummond is not a franchise player. Anthony Davis is a franchise player. If management would just be honest with Piston fans perhaps more fans would buy tickets. If the coach played more of the team orientated players most of the time, a bond might form with those players and the fans. But few fans will ever bond with highly paid professional players who play with extremely low IQs. Detroit was able to secure Zeke because they had a bad team the year before he was selected as the 2nd pick in the draft. After that happened the rest is history. We need to lose big to win in the end. Now is the time to start losing big but having a team that likes playing together and plays like a team should. Finally, this Piston team is losing with the current group of high priced players but they might not lose big enough to improve Detroit's future. That is why I wonder why the coach is playing Greg Monroe who seems a lock to leave the team after this season. Why not attempt a trade now unless somehow Monroe has indicated that he still is interested in staying in Detroit. But I suspect that Monroe is extremely tired of playing at the empty Palace. He is moving on for sure. So we can only deduce that the owner and Piston management are still selling snake oil attempting to fool the fans again. Smoke and Mirrors has not worked Mr. Gores. Can't you see the empty seats? Move all 3 of the Big Three if necessary to help secure a better Piston future. Trade for high draft picks. Be patient for 5 years and then the Palace will be full again. Watch the Pelicans and other teams that will be a force in the future and finally do the right thing.

Here is a special message to Brandon Jennings relating to his statement that the team has had no time to practice shooting. It appears that Stan Van Gundy is spending what practice time that is available on running a team orientated practice where the team goes through basic things like spacing or defensive rotations because so many of the highly paid players miss their assignments. This is especially true relating to Brandon Jennings playing one side of the court which means he plays the side where Josh Smith stands. And of course Jennings needs a lot of work on defense relating to stopping dribble penetration. For sure Jennings is a better ball players this season than last season but he is still a work in progress far behind Brandon Knight who is now a lock down defensive player and had overall stats that compared to Laborn James best season as a pro. As for using the excuse for the extremely low shooting percentages by the highest paid players on the team, please don't make me puke Brandon. Brandon doesn't want to learn how to play the right way by practicing the right way. He only wants to consider practice time shooting time whee he can practice his individual thing. He has it all down as to how he wants to play. Brandon did you ever consider staying after practice to practice your shooting? Probably not I suspect but with the money Brandon makes he could rent out an entire gym and stay there all night practicing his shooting as much as he wants. Jennngs is just not a player many can admire. That might be one of the reasons why the Palace remains empty. For sure if Brandon Knight were still on this team, more fans would have attended the games Mr. Gores.

[Oracle]

Where I'm going is this!

I know you've been around the block once or twice, but in life as in sports, everybody matures at different rates, and in the NBA, it is tied to the cast of coaches and players around you.

You, for some reason want to call the game over in the 1st quarter on players, and I don't when they have talent and potential.

It doesn't mean that they'll always reach that potential, but I won't say that unless the proof is very obvious.

You judge everyone, except Josh, based on the screwed up situation here!

IMO, it's being here that's killing Josh, he has NEVER looked this bad in his entire career, and you act like the stats can cover up the smell of his poor play! Something is wrong, and covering it up isn't fooling anybody, we all see it!

DX, you've also been screaming for JJ to get PT at the SF, and for some reason, maybe the losing, I'm just now seeing what you guys were talking about!

[deusXango]

Yo, cool, I believe WE ALL called the need to start Jerebko at the SF position weeks, ago. Start Moose and Dre. Remember the nice pass that Moose dished to Dre, last night. And, bring Josh off the bench to punish the opponent's 2nd shift, while finishing games after he has developed a groove.

You guys do remember after WE won the tip, Josh's cross court pass to the second row of fans. Maybe, Josh would be better coming off the bench.

Starting Jerebko still offers size and mobility at the position. Jerebko has proven that he can score from a variety of locations on the floor and he can be a decent passer. He has relatively good basketball instincts, well enough to start.

I think that Moose, Dre and JJ is an awesome combination to start games. Talk about GREAT size, there's your big 3, with JJ spreading the floor!

We have got to get this word out where SVG will see it!!!

The sheer magic of the thought of starting J.J. at SF is more than simplistic, it's obvious! Kind of makes one wonder what SVG is looking at or for and what exactly impresses the man?

[WTF]

Singler and JJ played a combined 36 minutes just 1 minute more than Josh and still couldn't produce better stats than Josh. You all may not like Josh but please stop thinking either of this 2 role players are better and should start.

[WTF]

@Wise - Are you loopy? You said,

This isn't a knock on Andre just that he like many other picks Joe made never really made sense. I was never crazy about Knight and always thought Kemba was a better option and the fact that we traded him only proves it.

First you constantly say how wrong Joe was, but him trading Knight PROVES something? Yeah, it proves how DUMB Joe was! BTW, Kemba has a better team around him, so it's hard to compare when we have Josh as our highest paid player.

@Don - You said,

It is amazing that any Piston fan would enjoy watching Josh Smith play basketball

I totally agree! You can only like watching Josh play if you like taking a good beating, but then again some do like S&M. If that's your bag(Wise ), let Lady Ramirez be your guide! It's safer than watching Josh


@Wise again - If this is true, then SVG is one crazy ass hole! I know he wants to get the defense going, but you have to shoot to be good at it!

"If you ask the question about why we're not making shots, we don't shoot," Jennings said after Friday's 99-89 loss to the Atlanta Hawks. "We don't shoot in practice. We haven't really had a chance to work on our games or anything. When we do have shootarounds, we're not able to get up shots like we should."

The practice-poor Pistons have played 13 games already, losing 10 of them, and rank at or near the bottom of the NBA in the most important shooting categories.

Jennings said the Pistons would make good use of the three off days upcoming, with practices on Sunday and Monday.

@Don again - While I wouldn't call SF a strength, I do believe it's not the position that's causing the problems unless Josh is playing there!

Lady Ramirez looks like a lot of fun but I think I'll prefer watching Josh unless I can get some combination of both

BTW Kemba was/is a better PG and I don't think it has anything to do with the players at least not to the extent you're implying......

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