Classic Quotes from the Palace Inspired by Vinnie G

[Fennis Dembo]

It was the perfect night for a classic Pistons stinker. - Vincent Goodwill Jr.

Defeat hung heavy over the Palace like an acrid fart in a crowded elevator.- F. Dembo

It was the worst of times and the best of times not so much. - George Blaha

I love the smell of sweaty uniforms in the locker room. It reminds me of defeat. - Greg Monroe

War is hell. Coaching this team is a notch lower than that, but the pay is much better. - SVG

If I owned the Palace and Hell. I'd rent out the Palace and play in Hell. - Doc Rivers

The sun never rises on the Pistons empire. - Josh Smith

Tomorrow is another day, another dollar, another loss. - Brandon Jennings

There is no crying in basketball, but whining is permitted. - André Drummond

I bought a pig in a poke from a kosher butcher. - Tom Gores

[Oracle]

Taking over, the kid is looking good!!!

Wise, nobody in any professional sport believes a word you said, and I played ball up until college where my unfortunate lack of prime time talent got exposed, but let's not talk about that

[cool breeze]

First off none of you need worry about Kyle Singler screwing up this team when you think of the future. Most of the payroll is spent on loser type players so far. Singler will be able to sign for several other teams snagging a lot more money. Singler will be happen to move on and play for a better team, more fans, and better teammates. I think he would like signing with Portland to be close to home but I see him somewhere on a West coast team.

While so many of you bitch about Singler, he does offer a lot to any team. He can play multiple positions. And this year he is playing for very little money according to NBA standards. The Pistons will not be able to sign any player as good as Singler next year for the same amount of money. And that is what SVG is going to have to do. He will bring in another loser low IQ player to go with the other low IQ players already on this team. They will all rap and party together and have another horrible season playing before few fans. Everyone will be happen to see him gone like they were when Brandon Knight was traded. Most of the fans on this forum all agreed that Knight hurts the team and he will never be a point guard. He should come off the bench if he stays. But somehow Jason Kidd feels differently than some of you so maybe he will want to sign Singler next summer.

[WTF]

Interestingly, both Don & Wise tend to believe that it's always the players, but that's the easy answer, because it takes a lot more work to determine if it's coaching.

I'm guessing Don played sports as I did, neither of us played professionally at least I haven't. Short of rotation issues and play calling there's nothing else to blame a coach for. Players you can question for everything else really especially with what happens on the floor so yes you can blame a player for missing FT's (Josh) yes can blame players for fade-away 3's (Jennings) you can blame players for not boxing out (Monroe) and you can blame a player for missing defensive assignments (Entire Team but mostly Andre) you can blame the players for their poor shooting (Again Entire Team). All these things matter to a team winning and losing more times than not.

It's not that its easier to blame a player it just that they carry the bulk of responsibility when it comes to executing on the floor and SVG isn't on the floor the players are. Now if SVG was starting 3rd tier player then it's his fault, if he left Andre in a game long enough to foul out in the first half that's SVG fault. The onus is on the players to produce and perfect their game not the coach. The coach simply supply the knowledge and tools after that players are expected to perform. Isn't that's why many scream about Josh? Because there is a level of expectation must reach.

Too many excuses are made for players too much blame goes to coaches. In All Sports Really

[WTF]

While Don minimizes and mildly views Singler's complete and total regression, Wise is doing the same with Josh!

We recognize the regression of Josh's and game and totally acknowledge the horrid percentages on his FG and FT attempts. We don't have any real explanation for the bad shooting I'm as confused about it as many are. I still think that the weight gain has something to do with it he just doesn't look as athletic in his movement at all. What really has me baffled is the FT's when he's extremely capable of being at worse in the high 60% and low 70%.

Other than that I really don't have huge complaints about Josh, his 3 attempts are way down he really hasn't shoot many although Don think 1 attempt is way too many and he still consistent so there no guessing night in and night out what you're getting stat wise. Yeah he'll mentally take a game off but he'll never run a string of horrible outings.

Yes Don see nothing wrong in Singler game and it's everyone elses fault when he has a bad game. Either the guards are ignoring him, or they focus too much on Josh, or SVG is a sissy fraidy cat.....blah...blah...blah....etc.

[Sparma]

He's way down from last year, after making nice progress from his 1st to 2nd NBA season.

Something that jumped out at me: he's trending downward in shots from 3 feet or less (.321 > .272 > .132 (!!)), but up each season in 3 pt. attempts (.312 > .409 > .566 (!!)). His first season he shot about as often up close as from distance, maybe because Calderon was hitting him at the right time and right place. Now he shoots four times as often from distance as from up close. That part comes from not getting the ball from Jennings, I'd say, in accordance with Don's observations.

Singler's an unusually system dependent player. He's regressed, but he'd also have real reason to complain about his PGs and coach.

[Oracle]

While Don minimizes and mildly views Singler's complete and total regression, Wise is doing the same with Josh!

The problem with both positions is that it ignores the complete and total regression of almost everybody else on the team!

This team isn't as good as the last Knight team that featured Maxiell as our PF, with Calderon as PG! This team may have more talent on paper, news flash, they aren't playing these games on paper.

But the bigger question is this: If almost every player is regressing, there is something bigger going on!

Interestingly, both Don & Wise tend to believe that it's always the players, but that's the easy answer, because it takes a lot more work to determine if it's coaching.

However, when I look at this, it's 100% clear that the problem is coaching, but that's not a judgment of good or bad coaching at this point, because that's not clear.

This is a judgment that coaching is causing what's going on now, but it may just be the process that the players have to go through to get to where the coaching has a different effect.

IMO, that's essentially what SVG is seeing. He wants to get certain principles across, but he underestimated the impact of them not working immediately, and the down effect of losing while it plays out.

However, major mistakes were made in getting the pieces to help this club. NONE of the "Shooters" SVG brought in have been of any help to this team, that's a 100% failure by SVG the GM.

In short, SVG either as coach or GM is pretty much a failure early on!

BTW, I think it was a major mistake to get rid of the two players that knew how to get to the rim when shots weren't falling, Stuckey & Bynum, and not replace them. Right now, we do one of two things. Either one of the bigs will score or we shoot a jumper! We don't have rim attackers that are feared, just guys that can dribble out the shot clock for bad shots!

We struggle because of what I always hated about SVG's Orlando teams, too much reliance on 3 point shooting. I much prefer having both a midrange game and rim attackers, and we've been most successful with those!

[Sparma]

Wise, your mention of CV made me think it might be time for an update. You'd also said earlier that you can use stats to prove anything. While I wouldn't go that far, I agree that stats can be remarkable. Case in point: CV's at his second highest points per minute average for his career: 20.6 per 36 (sic) minutes.

I was puzzled as to why they didn't provide his averages per 48 minutes, but then I saw he's totaled 42 minutes for the season.

[cool breeze]

Greg Monroe
Kyle Singler
Jonas Jerebco

Who else wants out but are stuck because of contract issues?

Who should improve their stats next year?

Josh Smith
KCP
DJ Augustin

There is nothing to worry about Piston fans. Only the high basketball IQ players will be allowed to play next season.

[cool breeze]

Lol! Boy some folks try to eek out every inch of whining about Josh

What one posters here ail to mention also is that Josh spent very little time at SF and it was mostly Singler stinking up that position last night.  Josh going 2-10 at the FT line wasn't reason the team lost last night, but of course one poster here is almost certain it was the reason.  

Hey Don, Josh shot 50% from 3 point land last night and I think Singler was like 2-9 from 3 point land  Man Charlie V put up better numbers than Kyle does in less minutes mind you!

Yeah it sucks missing 8 FTs so it must really sucks missing 9 from deep  BTW see how I sneaked in those 2 extra misses

Wisefan are you getting paid to be the President of the Josh Smith Fan Club? Are there any other members cheering for the highest paid Piston player who gets 33.2 minutes a game and shoot an amazing 376% from the floor and 217% from the 3 point line. Thanks for correcting me on Josh Smith's free throw attempts. He is now standing at 41% at the line. I know of no other fan who would create a fan club with a player who is up among the leaders in turnovers while shooting the ball at the level he is currently at. I'll bet that the Hawks are sorry for letting him go. Maybe there still is one fan in Atlanta that you can talk into moving to Detroit.

Wisefan I am only having some fun and am not trying to create a personal attack. I think it is cool that you stand up for the players you like. This is basketball and everyone has a different opinion relating to what should be done when things are spinning out of control. I would hate to be in Stan Van Gundy's shoes right now but then he is getting a fat pay check isn't he.. Should we feel sorry for him a man with no balls?

Notice the Detroit News article from the puppet reporter who repeats whatever the coach at the time tells him to report Vincent Goodwill. "Dinwiddie's Piston start Is Predictably Uneven" published on 11/21/2014. "Dinwiddie didn't do much in 13 minutes". The article quoted coach Van Gundy saying "We nave to get him playing time". If so why did he sit while Augustin played the entire 2nd half of last night's blowout game against the mighty Bucks Stan? Stan must have lost track of time.

[WTF]

Lol! Boy some folks try to eek out every inch of whining about Josh

What one posters here ail to mention also is that Josh spent very little time at SF and it was mostly Singler stinking up that position last night. Josh going 2-10 at the FT line wasn't reason the team lost last night, but of course one poster here is almost certain it was the reason.

Hey Don, Josh shot 50% from 3 point land last night and I think Singler was like 2-9 from 3 point land Man Charlie V put up better numbers than Kyle does in less minutes mind you!

Yeah it sucks missing 8 FTs so it must really sucks missing 9 from deep BTW see how I sneaked in those 2 extra misses

[cool breeze]

Bring big signs to show coach Stan Van Gundy the current stats of his favorite players. The list should include the following.

Smith:

Average minutes played: 33.2
FG%= 376%
3 PFG% = 217%
FT% = 41%

KCP:

Average minutes played: 33.1
FG% = 350%
3 PFG% = 329%
FT: 59%

Augustin:

Played 30 plus minutes last night or the most minutes of any Piston player
FG% = 353%
3FG% = 237%

Jerebco:

Average minutes played = 15.9 ( his minutes have been reduced since the last report)
FG% = 518%
3 PFG%= 400%
FT% = 1000%

Spencer Dinwiddie:

Average minutes played = 3

Not enough playing time to furnish any other stats but he made one 3 point shot last night on his only attempt. Stan if you don't like Dinwiddie then sign a player from the D League now. Send Augustin down t the D League along with KCP.

I guess you would need help carrying that sign.

"FIRE THE COACH AND PRESIDENT" "FIRE THE COACH AND PRESIDENT"

[Sebastian]

Andre looking energetic.  He's been a terror on O in the first half!  That time off's added some spring to his step, which was already springy.  

I try not to get wrapped up in the furor about Josh, because I think he'll either be gone or not much of a factor for good or ill by the time the team's good again.   I see he's working on his fourth year of declining ppg.  He's got a similar rebounding trend going, although that trend's not straight downhill.  I suspect that as much as anything the years of taking a beating inside have taken a toll, understandably.  I'm among those who think part of his attraction of signing with the Pistons was the understanding/ promise that he'd get time away from the basket.  He reminds me of Sheed in one respect.  I loved Sheed, but couldn't stand that he refused to regularly work his magic close to the basket as time passed.  Again understandable though.  Even super athletes get worn down by getting beaten by giants for years.

Two concerns about Dinwiddie: he plays slow and telegraphs his moves to the basket.  On the upside: he seems to look for and find the seams with his passes.  That's playing smart.  Not enough NBA evidence to really draw conclusions yet.

Good comments Sparma. What I liked about Spencer last night is that he got the entry pass in early and made some good passes into the low post. That was his first experience as an NBA point guard. I also enjoyed the fact that when he played point guard, the other players moved without the ball and the focus of the offense was not on the point guard. We have two shoot first players who like to dribble around from side to side now and SVG seems to approve of that style which means he is a lame coach.

I agree. It is time to start giving Dinwiddie more playing time. He did score his first NBA points on that deep three that added to the 83 points that WE would have had, had he missed that shot. He does seem to be able to get to the rim and will begin to finish with more time on the floor. And, most of all at this point he is an unknown quantity that may offer some hope to US fans, if he is given the requisite minutes that will afford him the opportunity to grow.

[Sebastian]

What could a coach do to try to improve stats of players who are failing? Do you play them more minutes or less? I believe there is no way the players will have any respect for their coach unless that coach addresses the world the way it is rather than the way he wants it to be. If Stan The Man has any brains he would want to trade Smith and Augustin now. And KCP might be another player he should start thinking about in terms of being included in a potential trade based on what he is doing on the floor for his team. If a player is struggling who is not making much money on NBA standards, coach Van Gundy would be quick to bench that player for while or reduce their playing time. But it gets sticky when you bench the highest paid player or a number one draft pick that everyone has built up as a sure keeper. And it is difficult to bench a point guard who you as the head coach has just signed. It takes a coach with some real balls to reduce playing time relating to the players that I have mentioned. But if he did that, he would get the respect of all the other players on this Piston team. The chemistry  would improve. Monroe might want to sign with the Pistons. Anything could happen good or bad but if you are a pussy, you will ignore the stats and what is going on in the game itself. If Van Gundy reduced Smith's, KCPs, and Augustin's playing time, my bet is that all three players would play harder and improve their stats. If they improve their stats and look better on the court, the players are all more apt to have more trading value or could stay on the team and become good players. If the coach does nothing, nothing good will happen.

Here are the current stats of the 3 players that I mentioned.

Smith:

FG percentage = 376%
3 point SP       = 217%
FT                  = 41%

KCP:

FG                = 350%
3 point SP     = 329%
FT                = 59%

Augustin:

FG              = 353%
3 point SP   = 237%
FT              = 83%

Can anyone name any starter at the small forward position, shooting guard position, or point guard position or back up point guard who is anywhere close to shooting as poorly as Smith, KCP and Augustin? And there has never been any starting small forward or shooting guard in the history of the NBA who has shot as low as 41% and 59% at the line is there? Stan Van Gundy must think all Piston fans are complete fools. Did Stan plant the seed that Kyle Singler who makes peanuts as far as money is concerned is the cause of this Piston team looking like they are the worst team in Piston history? People who want to view the world the way they want it to be will always ignore the facts. And one last question I have for you fans. Which player on this team leads the team in turnovers???

Cool has asked the question: Which player on this team leads the team in turnovers???

Answer: Moose (2.3 .tpg*) and B. Jennings (2.2 .tpg*) and Josh Smith (2.2 .tpg*). Honestly, if you count missing back-to-back free throws this would then put Josh in the lead with the most turnovers, as he has missed both free throws several times this season.

*Source: ESPN.com team/player statistics.

[cool breeze]

Andre looking energetic.  He's been a terror on O in the first half!  That time off's added some spring to his step, which was already springy.  

I try not to get wrapped up in the furor about Josh, because I think he'll either be gone or not much of a factor for good or ill by the time the team's good again.   I see he's working on his fourth year of declining ppg.  He's got a similar rebounding trend going, although that trend's not straight downhill.  I suspect that as much as anything the years of taking a beating inside have taken a toll, understandably.  I'm among those who think part of his attraction of signing with the Pistons was the understanding/ promise that he'd get time away from the basket.  He reminds me of Sheed in one respect.  I loved Sheed, but couldn't stand that he refused to regularly work his magic close to the basket as time passed.  Again understandable though.  Even super athletes get worn down by getting beaten by giants for years.

Two concerns about Dinwiddie: he plays slow and telegraphs his moves to the basket.  On the upside: he seems to look for and find the seams with his passes.  That's playing smart.  Not enough NBA evidence to really draw conclusions yet.

Good comments Sparma. What I liked about Spencer last night is that he got the entry pass in early and made some good passes into the low post. That was his first experience as an NBA point guard. I also enjoyed the fact that when he played point guard, the other players moved without the ball and the focus of the offense was not on the point guard. We have two shoot first players who like to dribble around from side to side now and SVG seems to approve of that style which means he is a lame coach.

[Sebastian]

Oh sh!t, OUR Pistons play host to the Clippers, tonight, at the Palace. WE will get another chance to show off that improved defense, as the Clippers bring their 8th place scoring offense of 103.2 points per game. I predict that OUR 28th ranked offense of 91.7 points will come up short tonight against the high flying Clippers, a team with Championship aspirations.

Meanwhile, WE are just a collection of dudes are playing only because the NBA schedule-makers, say that WE have to play, tonight.

Damn. Watching these games are quickly becoming an exercise in futility.

[cool breeze]

What could a coach do to try to improve stats of players who are failing? Do you play them more minutes or less? I believe there is no way the players will have any respect for their coach unless that coach addresses the world the way it is rather than the way he wants it to be. If Stan The Man has any brains he would want to trade Smith and Augustin now. And KCP might be another player he should start thinking about in terms of being included in a potential trade based on what he is doing on the floor for his team. If a player is struggling who is not making much money on NBA standards, coach Van Gundy would be quick to bench that player for while or reduce their playing time. But it gets sticky when you bench the highest paid player or a number one draft pick that everyone has built up as a sure keeper. And it is difficult to bench a point guard who you as the head coach has just signed. It takes a coach with some real balls to reduce playing time relating to the players that I have mentioned. But if he did that, he would get the respect of all the other players on this Piston team. The chemistry would improve. Monroe might want to sign with the Pistons. Anything could happen good or bad but if you are a pussy, you will ignore the stats and what is going on in the game itself. If Van Gundy reduced Smith's, KCPs, and Augustin's playing time, my bet is that all three players would play harder and improve their stats. If they improve their stats and look better on the court, the players are all more apt to have more trading value or could stay on the team and become good players. If the coach does nothing, nothing good will happen.

Here are the current stats of the 3 players that I mentioned.

Smith:

FG percentage = 376%
3 point SP = 217%
FT = 41%

KCP:

FG = 350%
3 point SP = 329%
FT = 59%

Augustin:

FG = 353%
3 point SP = 237%
FT = 83%

Can anyone name any starter at the small forward position, shooting guard position, or point guard position or back up point guard who is anywhere close to shooting as poorly as Smith, KCP and Augustin? And there has never been any starting small forward or shooting guard in the history of the NBA who has shot as low as 41% and 59% at the line is there? Stan Van Gundy must think all Piston fans are complete fools. Did Stan plant the seed that Kyle Singler who makes peanuts as far as money is concerned is the cause of this Piston team looking like they are the worst team in Piston history? People who want to view the world the way they want it to be will always ignore the facts. And one last question I have for you fans. Which player on this team leads the team in turnovers???

[cool breeze]

It was clear as a bell to me which group of players looked the best together last night. Singler,who seems to be taking a beating today by the fans but it was the group of players consisting of Singler, Jerebco, Spencer Dinwiddie, Butler and Monroe that looked the best in my opinion. That group played in the first half and managed to build up a nice lead against the mighty Bucks. Josh Smith, Drummond, KCP and of course the starting point guard Augustin were on the bench. Some of you have said that Singler didn't even attempt to guard anyone in the 4th quarter. But did you watch Josh Smith watch from the free throw line on the Bucks first possession while the opponent got 4 offensive boards. It doesn't say much for Drummond or Monroe either because they were both a day late and a dollar short as well. I didn't want to mention Drummond because he did run the court well and caught some difficult passes and scored with his dunks. But the problem still lies with the high priced inept play of our starting group. They do not play well together. I provided the stats several times but that doesn't seem to mean anything to the coach and some fans. They want to blame it on the small forward if Josh Smith is not playing small forward. It apparently isn't important to anyone that Smih was something like 2 for 12 at the line in the first half. But there was no need to hack a smith in the 4th quarter. Jerebco spent most of the 2nd half on the bench. Spencer watched but could not have learned anything from Augustin who played all of the minutes available. Van Gundy should be fired for doing that in my opinion. When the good unit that I mentioned played, Spencer got the initial pass to Singler who made the correct pass to the open teammate. It doesn't take many brains to do what Singler did but for some reason the starters do not move or set screens for anyone. And Josh Smith turns the ball over after he receives the initial pass a lot of the time. So what in hell did Spencer to wrong on the court to warrant no playing time in the 2nd half? And what did KCP do on the floor that coach Van Gundy liked. Or what did Augustin do on the floor that Augustin liked. But according to you fans, it must be Singler who didn't guard anyone in the 4th quarter that caused this loss.

What I enjoyed was watching Brandon Knight kicking the Detroit Pistons asses all night. He is a first class point guard who might get a call to play in this years All Star game. Great job Tom Gores and Joe Dumars. If Gores is upset with Detroit's start of the season, then he needs to take a long look in his mirror. Who is responsible for no first round draft pick? Who is responsible for trading Brandon Knight who was a close friend of Greg Monroe. And who was responsible for hiring Stan Van Gundy? Bench Josh Smith, Augustin and KCP for awhile. Or play both of them no more than 15 minutes a game. Play Jerebco idiot coach. But the coach fears Josh and most likely believes that Detroit lost because Brandon Jennings didn't play. Look at the salary structure and then you can see how Van Gundy makes his decisions on who plays. Why have a coach?

[Oracle]

Vincent Goodwill @vgoodwill
Follow
SVG has begun to realize a quick turnaround is unlikely. "It won't happen overnight": http://detne.ws/1vLI6Dd 

Van Gundy tells Gores Pistons won't improve overnight

[Fennis Dembo]

I don't know if anybody listened to SVG's comments after the game?

The Detroit media lobs him softball questions almost apologetically looking for excuses and some shred of positivity to write about, but Stan won't give it to them.  Nineteen turnovers and the Bucks had nineteen offensive rebounds are why we lost.  One writer asked him if missing Jennings was a problem and SVG said, "He's only one guy".  In other cities the press asks tough questions and the coach tries to be upbeat.  It's just the opposite here.  Maybe the media here is having trouble dealing with all the losing just like the fans and SVG.

[WTF]

This is the first time I've seen that from this group!

In the 4th, Singler didn't even attempt to defend, he either got lost or just fouled slapping with his hands!

But Cousins and the Kings go into New Orleans and kicks the Pelicans & UniBrow's ass!

Yeah, that Cousins for Monroe trade would have been a mother of all trades for us!!!

Man, it's a good thing Brandon Knight isn't a point guard, because if he was, we might have lost by 30!!

LOL! that's exactly what I was thinking

[Oracle]

This is the first time I've seen that from this group!

In the 4th, Singler didn't even attempt to defend, he either got lost or just fouled slapping with his hands!

But Cousins and the Kings go into New Orleans and kicks the Pelicans & UniBrow's ass!

Yeah, that Cousins for Monroe trade would have been a mother of all trades for us!!!

Man, it's a good thing Brandon Knight isn't a point guard, because if he was, we might have lost by 30!!

[Sebastian]

Yeah, OUR defense is much improved. WE are currently 28th in the League, scoring 92.2 pts. per game.


Has Head Coach SVG explained to OUR Pistons that you play to win the game? You don't play for the exercise or the check or just because the schedule indicates so. "You play to win the game!"

OUR guys are just showing up for games, just because the schedule says so. Damn!!!

[WTF]

I just being proactive

Hey Don! I guess Single and KCP has caught up with Josh shooting percentage on 3's I'm sure you'll come up with some lame excuse like those were good misses Singler had.

Yeah! Josh looks like sh!t at the FT line if he makes half of them man I would be happy at this point. Almost a triple-double for Josh and toss in 3blks and 2 steals. Sorry Don! Singler and JJ do not need to start over Josh although I had some thoughts that he might be better served coming off the bench I'm thinking.

Steal rather see him traded to a contender at this point or a better team. I think he'll do good and Cleveland and might be want the Cavs need.

[Fennis Dembo]

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
The Pistons are freakin' losing again

They lose when you are sleeping
They lose when you are awake
They lose and we cuss and groan
So might as well scream, bitch, and moan

Oh, You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Pistons are freakin' losing again
Pistons are freakin' losing again
Effin' A man

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