How likely?

[Sparma]

Laker Nation proposes the following trade. I know that free agency comes after the draft, so the Lakers would need to choose for the Pistons with the full assurance that the trade would go through subsequently. Also, I'm not quite sure how sign-and-trade works. Does a sign-and-trade require that the player have agreed to go to a specific place first or could Detroit sign Monroe and have complete freedom where they send him? Not so sure Monroe would agree to go to Minnesota.


"The purple and gold will continue to make a push to acquire Love, but they will need to get creative. While three-team deals are hard to make, that is the best option for the Lakers to get a deal done.

A plausible trade partner could be that of the Detroit Pistons. Here is the trade idea (please note this would be main part of the deal):

Lakers receive: Kevin Love

Pistons receive: 7th pick in NBA Draft (LA would select player for Detroit in draft)

T’Wolves receive: Greg Monroe (Sign & Trade)"

[Sparma]

Good point about the bigs, Oracle. When I subscribed to the games the season before last, I was struck by Drummond's promise as passer. And Monroe and Smith have well-established records, although those include TO issues.

A good decision-maker with size who makes the team better, Philip? Sounds great. Might be a surprisingly rare commodity though. Calderon made good decisions between taking shots and distributing, but lack size (and speed and strength!). Chris Paul mixes it up well, and intelligently; size is not his forte though. Stephen Curry's listed at 6'3", but not sure he counts as having good NBA size because of his lack of bulk. I'd take any of those guys, even without the size. There are some serious trade offs to navigate with point guards.

[WTF]

I would much rather see the vote happen before the selling of the Clippers. I'm really curious to see if all 29 owners would have voted as they should and the other thing is 2 billion is insane, I could see 1 billion even though I thought that was a stretch. Something not right I don't care how badly Ballmer wants to own a NBA franchise it's not a smart business move and Clipper fans should be concerned.

You overpay 3 times the team worth just how much more would you be willing to sink in money wise to run it after you bought it.

[WTF]

WTF, this dude is off the charts... what a 2 way player!

I know they're comparing him to Jordan, but while Jordan's offense was ahead of Westbrook at this stage of Jordan's career, Westbrooks defense is light years ahead of where Jordan was then, and is a much better balanced player than Jordan would be later in his career!

Seriously, I haven't seen a performance like Westbrooks in a long time!!!

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BTW, I would love to see Steve Balmer get the Clippers... good dude!!!

Sound like you would be in favor of swapping Moose for Westbrook   

Man I'm not so sure about that MJ comparing though but back to this swapping IMO Moose would be a better fit with KD, Ibaka and Jackson and that IMO Westbrook would be the perfect fit with Andre, Josh and KCP. Then SVG acquires Deng and there you have it a starting lineup of Westbrook, Pope, Deng, Smith and Drummond.

Only problem are those outfits of his that sh!t would have to stop   

[Phil-Good]

Give me A high IQ PG with size. I don't care if he A pass first or scoring PG. If he smart he will figure out what he needs to do to win and make everybody better.

The Pistons need more smart players. The Pistons had/have core guys who are not smart basketball players. Very low Basketball IQ guys.

Stuckey! DUMB basketball player. Low IQ, injury prone, right hand only, head down, out of control, coming right at you.

J.Smith. I can describe Josh Smith with 2 words. No Discipline. Stop shooting long 2's Josh, stop shooting 3's Josh, Post up more Josh, why take that shot at the end of the game Josh? Pass on that shot and drive to the rim Josh, post up more Josh, bad shot Josh. O NO JOSH!!

B.Jennings. Play Ground special. No right hand what so ever. So if he on the right side of the rim, he using the left hand. Usually that rolls out. Next is the left hand drive, step-back, pull up, off balance, mid-range shot. Hood basketball special 101. Fundamentals are broken!

If I'm GM, I don't care if I make the playoff or not. I got to get these guys out of Detroit unless Josh Smith shows that he ready to do whatever it takes to win including A bench player role.

[Oracle]

WTF, this dude is off the charts... what a 2 way player!

I know they're comparing him to Jordan, but while Jordan's offense was ahead of Westbrook at this stage of Jordan's career, Westbrooks defense is light years ahead of where Jordan was then, and is a much better balanced player than Jordan would be later in his career!

Seriously, I haven't seen a performance like Westbrooks in a long time!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I would love to see Steve Balmer get the Clippers... good dude!!!

[Oracle]

All else being equal, I'll take the passing guard over the ball commanding PG every time, because I want to play 5 on 5 rather than 1 on 5 or 2 on 5.  But in so often, all else is not equal.  So, I'll take Westbrook over the unselfish, but vastly inferior, Carlos Arroyo every time.  In addition, the teammates need to be considered.  If you're carrying a Ben Wallace, concentrating the ball between Chauncey and Rip may be advised.   With the current roster, I see five starters who can score, along with some bench guys who can.  For me, that includes Drummond, in spite of his lack of interior moves.  I'm going to want a passing guard with this roster, unless there's a strong reason to go a different direction.  Another complication occurs when you have a guy like Calderon who can pass, but can't defend.  So there's weighing to be done, but my default preference is clearly for the passing guard.

Is Westbrook the way to go when you've got the best scorer in the universe on your team?  Remains to be seen.  I'd prefer Chris Paul alongside Durant, but this isn't fantasy basketball, so you don't get just any choice you want.  I'm guessing most OKC are happy with Westbrook, but want some adjustments in the direction of greater unselfishness.

You actually captured what I was trying to say!

It truly depends on the composition of the team!

You can prefer something, but it's when you try to force it, is where the trouble begins!

The MOST important thing is winning, and that can be accomplished in many ways!

The points have to come from somewhere, and the defense has to be present! If you have a guard that scores and defends but is only an average passer, it appears to work just fine!

BTW, on our current team, I think we need shooters more than a passing PG! Our bigs pass very well and are generally smart with the ball, all they needed was an outlet that could hit a shot!

[Sparma]

All else being equal, I'll take the passing guard over the ball commanding PG every time, because I want to play 5 on 5 rather than 1 on 5 or 2 on 5.  But in so often, all else is not equal.  So, I'll take Westbrook over the unselfish, but vastly inferior, Carlos Arroyo every time.  In addition, the teammates need to be considered.  If you're carrying a Ben Wallace, concentrating the ball between Chauncey and Rip may be advised.   With the current roster, I see five starters who can score, along with some bench guys who can.  For me, that includes Drummond, in spite of his lack of interior moves.  I'm going to want a passing guard with this roster, unless there's a strong reason to go a different direction.  Another complication occurs when you have a guy like Calderon who can pass, but can't defend.  So there's weighing to be done, but my default preference is clearly for the passing guard.

Is Westbrook the way to go when you've got the best scorer in the universe on your team?  Remains to be seen.  I'd prefer Chris Paul alongside Durant, but this isn't fantasy basketball, so you don't get just any choice you want.  I'm guessing most OKC are happy with Westbrook, but want some adjustments in the direction of greater unselfishness.

[Sebastian]

Thanks, again, Joe!  

[WTF]

Chauncey actually was a PG in college and then a SG and then a PG again before he was drafted. He wasn't the write kind of PG for Boston when they drafted him, and really didn't get to show his PG until his time with Timberwolves and then come here and have LB refine those PG skills. I also think he was a PG in H.S.

No doubt that Westbrook is a beast, and he may be very well better than KD talent wise but he can either win this series or lose this series if he's not constantly thinking. Kind of remind me of the younger MJ the one we use to beat up on, or the younger Kobe and maybe even the current Carmelo. I can't say I wouldn't want Westbrook on our team but we would have to alter our roster for sure if we had him.

[WTF]

Just look at Miami they're on the brinks of going to 4 straight NBA Finals. The Celtics was the last team to do that, the Heat have already equal the total of 3 straight NBA Finals done by the Bad Boys, MJ's Bull and the Showtime Lakers. I'm not sure if the Heat can be the 3rd team to 3peat (Lakers-Bulls)

I mention the above because this was the kind of team (Chauncey, Rip, Prince, Sheed and Ben) were capable of becoming had the genius so many applied to Joe stayed intact. There's not a time that when I think of this group some form heartache sets in over the thoughts of what should have been and how really special they were.

I've have struggle to get beyond this thought that Carmelo over Darko was such a no brainer selection that doing anything different made no sense what so ever. I know in all my heart that picking Carmelo would have help this group to the NBA Final each year from 2004 to at least 2009 if not 2010. That's 7 straight NBA Finals appearances people and I carry this thought every day and will likely died with it. Seriously I do struggle to understand what kind of reasoning and thinking was used to make sense of taking Darko over Carmelo. I kind understand Bosh, I can understand even Wade but for the life of me how do you not take Carmelo?

Not taking him set the course for the decline, the complacency of not making trades. It would have made it an easier decision to make that trade with Utah to get Boozer if all we had to give up was Prince. Man we all watch Boozer playing today, we watch him whip on Drummond and Monroe asses still today so just imagine Boozer and Carmelo playing with Chauncey, Ben, Rip Sheed and Dice. It's 2005! can you see the Spurs taking this group to a 7 game Final? no you can't, can you see us losing in 6 games in 2006 to the Heat? no you can't, do we lose to the Cavs 2007? No do we lose to Big Three in Boston? no we don't. This team doesn't go down until 2010 at best and what has been a 10-11 years draught is only perhaps 4 years and the team likely still have Carmelo and Boozer today.

We wouldn't have gone through most of the crap we had to endure the past 10 years, No Kwame, No Charlie V, No Ben Gordon, No 7 coaches in 10 seasons, no Stuckey debates, no wasted lottery selections, No Chauncey AI trades, No Maxiell. I just can't believe that so many of you don't imagine this and don't get angry, that it doesn't turn your stomachs. It's almost like looking at young person bright and intelligent whole life ahead of them with so much promise, maybe president or Pope even and seeing them ran down by a drunk driver. I'm telling you this is how I really felt this is how I felt about that 2004 team. They were like the perfect storm the perfect setup to be an dynasty, the perfect story ever told. There shouldn't be a time today, tomorrow and years from now that when we turn on ESPN that the greatest of that team, those players isn't talked about. The stuff that Joe did wasn't missteps as some refer to them, those thing were dynasty killers, they change the course of history. We should be looking at statues of them erected in front of the Palace, their jersey should already hanging in the rafters next 4-5 championship banners they could claim. ESPN wouldn't be talking about Kobe catching MJ or what Lebron is doing they'll be talking about Carmelo and the 5 rings he has and the 7 straight NBA Finals he played in.

We wouldn't be debating about small markets, cold weather and making excuses why we can't sign free agents. One right choices Darko or Carmelo, one trade Prince for Boozer. That's all we needed and how much different the world would have change. I know it's water under a bridge, we can't get that time back but that what makes it hurt worse, that what make the loss that much more painful. Watching how the team was being handle was like having a love one in a coma for 6 years sitting and praying for the situation to change refusing to lets go and then watching them pull the plug knowing there was a cure, knowing it didn't have to be. It just all played out like a tragic love story and Joe was the villain, the antagonist, the obstacle, the burden that the players I love had to overcome and in the end they died.   

[Oracle]

First off I am happy that Jonas will be playing for Detroit next season under Stan Van Gundy. Look for Jerebco to have a great season. Stan has a lot of emotion and is good at figuring out how to motivate players. I believe Stan will put Jonas in a position to succeed. 

GMs around the league are taking notice of Steven Adams. Watching him play in the playoffs makes be a believer in him. Few big men are as fundamentally sound or play as smart as Adams regardless of age. And this guy is only 20. He has no ego and nothing to prove. Adams is a throw back team orientated big man and OKC has hit the jackpot. 

After watching Lamb play in this series, I think that he is ready to play some steady basketball. And he plays good defense. Can we get him? If Detroit sucks again next season, I am going to watch the Thunder. What a fun team to watch!

The guy playing for OKC that 90% of the posters on this board would have been seeking to either trade, or move him to 6th man, but would NEVER want him to be their PG... Westbrook!!!

They only see ONE way for a PG to be, and if a player doesn't fit that mold, they want to get rid of them! Really odd because Chauncey was not a guard initially, and of all the teams left playing, none of them are led by a prototypical PG!

I'm not saying that having a pure PG is bad, but I am saying that it's not the only way to win, and even more, I'm saying that it's really silly to label a youngster before they have a chance to grow up!

Westbrook is a freaking BEAST, and IMO, is in the conversation of being close to as good as Durant!

[cool breeze]

First off I am happy that Jonas will be playing for Detroit next season under Stan Van Gundy. Look for Jerebco to have a great season. Stan has a lot of emotion and is good at figuring out how to motivate players. I believe Stan will put Jonas in a position to succeed. 

GMs around the league are taking notice of Steven Adams. Watching him play in the playoffs makes be a believer in him. Few big men are as fundamentally sound or play as smart as Adams regardless of age. And this guy is only 20. He has no ego and nothing to prove. Adams is a throw back team orientated big man and OKC has hit the jackpot. 

After watching Lamb play in this series, I think that he is ready to play some steady basketball. And he plays good defense. Can we get him? If Detroit sucks again next season, I am going to watch the Thunder. What a fun team to watch!

[WTF]

It may amuse you to hear what mixed reactions your posts solicit in me.  When I hear two 50+ win conference finals years included in the "horrible" years I want to tear out what little hair I have left; when I read your full explanation, I can kind of feel where you're coming from.

The first sports team I loved was the Detroit Tigers, starting in 1965.  But I wasn't keen on the GM Campbell or the owner Fetzer.  I loved the players and dissociated what they did from the front office.

See Sparma now you understand my pain and why I find it hard to equate what the players achieved to Joe. You probably felt as I did in that there was always something beyond the control of the players that management could have done. Every ECF I knew the players and coaches gave their all and was always proud of them, but at the same time I always felt that management failed them and the fans by not providing them the help they needed. Then to have Joe toss them under the bus as often as he did after each time they failed in those ECF just turned me totally against Joe, management, whomever but I knew it wasn't the fault of the players, nor was it the fault of Flip. Chauncey and those guys were a special unique group in that the sky was the limit for them and I believe that had Flip remained and Chauncey wasn't traded in 2009 that they could have made it to the Finals one more time.

[Sparma]

It may amuse you to hear what mixed reactions your posts solicit in me.  When I hear two 50+ win conference finals years included in the "horrible" years I want to tear out what little hair I have left; when I read your full explanation, I can kind of feel where you're coming from.

The first sports team I loved was the Detroit Tigers, starting in 1965.  But I wasn't keen on the GM Campbell or the owner Fetzer.  I loved the players and dissociated what they did from the front office.

[Oracle]

Athletic bigs down low if paired with 2 shooters and one slasher!

IMO, Drummond & josh paired should be terrors on both ends of the court if Drummond learns how to defend!

However, I also believe that it should be impossible to handle the big 3 lineup if paired up with 2 dead eye shooters!

In short, I'm not convinced that the big 3 was a failure in concept as much as it was a failure in implementation!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message to Sterling: Sell as soon as you can or watch the value of that team approach ZERO!

Fact: No NBA player will play for the clippers with him around!
Fact: They'll form another franchise if necessary
Fact: As soon as they see that he's delaying, the sooner they'll put in place plan B, and once it's set... value=0

Fact: We refuse to sell Sterling any grease, I just love seeing a racist get screwed raw  

[Oracle]

Oracle asked a good question.  Wise provided a good answer.  No one seemed to see the truth borne by facts within the answer.

IMO history will eventually credit Joe Dumars with one of the greatest achievements in the modern era of this game.  You look at the list of his peers and instantly conclude Joe D’s best accomplishments place him somewhere around a 4th or 5th  standing.  I say, look closer, dig deeper.

In that list, each of the other executives with a number in his SHIP column did it with at least one TOP 50 ALL TIME HOF’er (or soon to be) leading his squad.   Re-read the last sentence.  Beyond the list this phenomenon dates back three and a half decades.  

History says the Pistons, a collection of upper echelon draft picks having nary an All Star appearance between them should never have beaten LA who featured two top 50’s  If Joe was lucky, he was by far the luckiest SOB on the planet.  He hit 0.400 and won the triple crown.  He constructed a roster and staff that has done something no one else has in 4 generations of players, and counting.  

The subsequent ECF appearances can be chalked up to us falling back to the historical league mean of top 50 dominance.    History says, every team looking for a SHIP without a top 50’er is gonna suck hind tit till they find one.

lemonpen, I have to respectively disagree with the last comment not only was that team great achievement it should have been a great achievement for the following 5-6 seasons.   This team historical moment should have been truly historic it was like being 5 feet from Heaven and then falling all the way back to hell, it was like being to step from the peak of the mountain top and deciding all of a sudden you're afraid of height.  There was just so much left on the table.  

Keeping Big Ben in the fold and a young Melo "Oh MY God"  They could have broken every NBA Historical record in the book.    

The GREAT equalizer that offset the top 50 equation was the dominant bench of that 2004 team! Anchored by Memo, Nasty, Hunter, Zelly & Mike James, made us very potent and lessened the mileage on our starters in the regular season.

If Joe could have kept that up...

[WTF]

Oracle asked a good question.  Wise provided a good answer.  No one seemed to see the truth borne by facts within the answer.

IMO history will eventually credit Joe Dumars with one of the greatest achievements in the modern era of this game.  You look at the list of his peers and instantly conclude Joe D’s best accomplishments place him somewhere around a 4th or 5th  standing.  I say, look closer, dig deeper.

In that list, each of the other executives with a number in his SHIP column did it with at least one TOP 50 ALL TIME HOF’er (or soon to be) leading his squad.   Re-read the last sentence.  Beyond the list this phenomenon dates back three and a half decades.  

History says the Pistons, a collection of upper echelon draft picks having nary an All Star appearance between them should never have beaten LA who featured two top 50’s  If Joe was lucky, he was by far the luckiest SOB on the planet.  He hit 0.400 and won the triple crown.  He constructed a roster and staff that has done something no one else has in 4 generations of players, and counting.  

The subsequent ECF appearances can be chalked up to us falling back to the historical league mean of top 50 dominance.    History says, every team looking for a SHIP without a top 50’er is gonna suck hind tit till they find one.

lemonpen, I have to respectively disagree with the last comment not only was that team great achievement it should have been a great achievement for the following 5-6 seasons. This team historical moment should have been truly historic it was like being 5 feet from Heaven and then falling all the way back to hell, it was like being to step from the peak of the mountain top and deciding all of a sudden you're afraid of height. There was just so much left on the table.

Keeping Big Ben in the fold and a young Melo "Oh MY God" They could have broken every NBA Historical record in the book.

[WTF]

As you know, Wise, those 8 seasons include 53 and 59 win seasons, with two conference finals battles.  I know that you say you only care about first.  Also, it's clear that you don't think very highly of just one first.

With standards like that, how long will it be before you turn on your now revered Stan?  With 30 teams, and the market realities Merc describes, it would be quite an accomplishment for Stan to equal one, let alone two, of those "horrible" seasons I mentioned.  Naturally, I hope he'll do better, but winning a championship will be a real long shot in an era where the league is set up against the likes of Detroit.  Where's the enjoyment in being a fan, even a wise one, if great success gives no pleasure?

Sparma, from the perspective of team accomplishment I'm very much please with what the players and Flip done from 2006 to 2009, but I also know that from the perspective of management it was horrible.  Because as Oracle stated and I've stated for different reason Joe sucked ass after 2005 and what was accomplished was done on back of those players ad Flips coaching whom IMO was wrongly fired and scapegoated by management.  

Sparma, I'm a DIE HARD LIONS FAN it's always painful for me. But what makes it difficult for me to cheer their accomplishments is the fact that Joe IMO quitted on the team.  IMO Joe quitted on a potential dynasty that 2004 Championship team could have, should have, would have won at a minimum of 4 titles if Joe worked as hard as he did initially in putting the team together.  It's really hard for me to give Joe the kudos that most of you guys do, it's hard for me to equate what Chauncey and Flip accomplish to Joe.  I can't call Joe great because Joe threw greatness away because I've believe he had something special in hand that comes once in a lifetime and he fu@ked it up royally.  

There was never really nothing hard and complex about what Joe needed to do, all he need to do was build a bench.  No one was asking that he add a superstar, no one was asking him to break the bank to sign top free agents, and no one was screaming to break up that starting 5.  Just find them some support off the bench.  

While a championship would be nice year after year I know that won't happen, but it's very reasonable to expect 100% effort all the time. I recall one of my biggest gripes about 2006 season.  We needed rebound in the worse way and though they were on course to break a team record for wins all I could think of was by the time they get to the ECF they are going to be worth sh!t physically.  The team was just off back to back Finals with nothing on the bench.   It showed in that ECF, and then again in the following next 2 ECF.   This was on Joe not Flip not the players but yet we got the sacred cow speech, then we got the accountability speech, then finally the scapegoating of a coach.

[lemonpen]

Oracle asked a good question. Wise provided a good answer. No one seemed to see the truth borne by facts within the answer.

IMO history will eventually credit Joe Dumars with one of the greatest achievements in the modern era of this game. You look at the list of his peers and instantly conclude Joe D’s best accomplishments place him somewhere around a 4th or 5th standing. I say, look closer, dig deeper.

In that list, each of the other executives with a number in his SHIP column did it with at least one TOP 50 ALL TIME HOF’er (or soon to be) leading his squad. Re-read the last sentence. Beyond the list this phenomenon dates back three and a half decades.

History says the Pistons, a collection of upper echelon draft picks having nary an All Star appearance between them should never have beaten LA who featured two top 50’s If Joe was lucky, he was by far the luckiest SOB on the planet. He hit 0.400 and won the triple crown. He constructed a roster and staff that has done something no one else has in 4 generations of players, and counting.

The subsequent ECF appearances can be chalked up to us falling back to the historical league mean of top 50 dominance. History says, every team looking for a SHIP without a top 50’er is gonna suck hind tit till they find one.

[Sparma]

As you know, Wise, those 8 seasons include 53 and 59 win seasons, with two conference finals battles.  I know that you say you only care about first.  Also, it's clear that you don't think very highly of just one first.

With standards like that, how long will it be before you turn on your now revered Stan?  With 30 teams, and the market realities Merc describes, it would be quite an accomplishment for Stan to equal one, let alone two, of those "horrible" seasons I mentioned.  Naturally, I hope he'll do better, but winning a championship will be a real long shot in an era where the league is set up against the likes of Detroit.  Where's the enjoyment in being a fan, even a wise one, if great success gives no pleasure?

[WTF]

Wise, If I'm not mistaken you bring up JD just about every day   ... I will agree it's time to move on.

I only had a handful of post since he's stepped down it just that after reading one of Don's and Oracle post my eye started twitching and I joined the conversation. I think the last time I brought his name up was draft selection night.

Really I would love if we never said Joe's name again because we can't take back anything he's done and it was a horrible past 8 seasons. I'm ready to see what SVG can do to right this team.

BTW that would be my other brothers from a different mothers on this board that can't shake the Joe Blues and bring him up everyday   

[WTF]

Oracle that player was Joe Smith and I think we kind of knew coming in that he would return back to the Timberwolves once the season was over. The team was hoping once he got here he could be convince to sign with team but it was almost clear from the time the league said he couldn't play for the Timberwolves he was jetting.

But that was the 2000-2001 season and the team wasn't knocking on a championship door just yet and not quite as good as the Timberwolves. I think if that situation happened in 2005 or 2006 things might have played out differently.

Good thing about not signing him is that Joe Smith career quickly went south after he resigned with the Timberwolves.

[merc]

Wise, If I'm not mistaken you bring up JD just about every day   ... I will agree it's time to move on.

[Oracle]

Wise, that's a rational answer... if you'll just consider how ridiculously difficult to create a roster that has your team as the last standing.... exactly how many GM's have done this in the last 10 years?... Detroit doesn't have the golden goose market of a NY, Miami or LA... nothing but mad respect for the Spurs!

Enough with the disclaimers for failure.  It doesn't matter what the surrounding circumstance were or how difficult the task may have been I'm sure his job description didn't read win only once or get close.  After putting together the 2004 championship team Joe has done a piss poor job with managing the team up until he was mandated playoffs or bust by Gores last season.  

If we are to draw a hard  line on the record without questioning and injecting the luck theory then the same should apply when discussing the failures win the task was to win.  We can't pick and choose when to draw that hard line failure is failure and winning is winning, the difficulty level shouldn't come into play. Try going in to work with an incomplete task and tell the boss you were close but no cigar.    

You know I could probably accept Joe's failure if he actually put forth an honest effort and paid close detail and done all his homework but he didn't.  So no more market, goblins, gremlins, Mr. D, Mrs. D if there was no Good Luck in success there certainly wasn't any bad luck in failure.  Not that I have a problem with accepting the luck theory either way Good or Bad   

There is no way on God's Green Earth after back to back Finals he couldn't end up with free agents to create a better bench and gave the core the help they needed.  I players want to win and we presented that opportunity.  So what really happened

After the back to back finals, IMO, Joe lost his mind and thought it was all him and that he could do no wrong! All the hard work was replaced with hubris believing he just had the magic touch!

We weren't a good market before, but everybody wants in a getting a championship, but Joe blew it... no excuses!


EDIT: Merc does have a point early on! We had a LOT of trouble getting anyone to come to Detroit! I can't remember his name, but there was a 6'10 player we had for one season that was involved in some recruiting scandal and we mounted a campaign to have him stay, but he ran as fast as he could out of here! Joe really did have to think out of the box to build the initial winning team!

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