Did Joe Dumars attempt to destroy the Piston team befre he retired?

[cool breeze]

Is it possible that Dumars disliked the Pistons owners so much that he decided to strike a parting blow by giving away Brandon Knight And C. Middleton last summer. He also signed Will Bynum to a two year contract further killing the chance to create a half way competent backcourt. I can find no other answer because Dumars and any other former player knows that no team can win a damn thing if you load the team with horrible defenders. We all expected that after 5 years We would have at least one player in the back court that was a stud guy all fans could count on every game to be at the level of the other really talented guards in the league. In the last Chicago game, Jimmy Butler he a huge 3 point shot in crunch time with under a minute to go. It wasn't the shot that got to me but what H. Brown said while announcing the game. He said that Chicago's coach Tom T. has Butler in the game even though he is not a high percentage shooter because he is a guy who gives everything he has in his body on defense. This Butler kid has a great story relating to his Father leaving him for dead and his Mother kicking him out as a kid. He struggles and stays on track as a person and gets drafted in the first round of the NBA draft. What fan wouldn't pull for that kid? Meanwhile we can see the young guys in Toronto developing in a positive way giving a huge effort on defense. The Toronto kids are light years ahead of our young Piston players. We don't have the type of players we can bond with. I have struggled with this fact all season wanting to like some of the players. I do like a few maybe two or three players on the entire roster. My thought today is who can be that dumb to sign all of those guards who are dysfunctional type players. Some of them have been on the Piston team way too long and  should have been screened out long ago. Is Dumars innocent or guilty of intentionally selecting players he knew could not perform well as a unit. Many fans could predict what happened this last summer before one game was played. Is our owner so trusting as well that he could let this happen? The Piston franchise is so far behind the other teams with solid developing players it is scary. Because of the bad contracts, it will be almost impossible to change the team in a big way. It might be necessary to give up one or two young guys with big potential to obtain immediate help. Our Pistons do not have a bright future right now. it will take a miracle to turn this team around in two or three years. I will be happy for a slight improvement perhaps with the current players giving an honest effort more often. How can a new GM remove, Jennings, Stuckey, Bynum and Smith within a year. Smith is the only one in this group who is capable of playing playoff style defense. But he is a hotdog and you never can count on him to be a steady hand for the younger players. We need lightning to strike Josh Smith and turn him into a different person and player. And we need a light bulb to turn on in Drummond's head that will show him how to play average defense next year. Then we need to close our eyes and open them to find out that Jennings, Bynum and Stuckey are no longer on the team. Right now we have a weak starting unit and a bad bench. Welcome to the lottery Piston fans. Oh I forgot Joe gave away our number one pick so we need to be real lucky to even select anyone in the first round.

[cool breeze]

Don, I'm interested in your comments on this A.U. player.
At first glance it would not seem like a good fit for this team... when you dig a little deeper it makes some sense.
Why would we draft a light in the pants PF?... because he's added a lot of weight/strength in one year... because one of our biggest weakness is P&R defense.... because we don't know what will happen with Monroe.
I would be ok with Monroe if he didn't play this many minutes at PF (gives up 21 per at PF).
This team is lacking a Rodman type of athlete.
Even if Gordon is not a stretch 4, I'm not sure he wouldn't be better mid-range shooter than Monroe.
Just trying to get some more dope on the kid.

I have to agree with Don and Merc.  Arron Gordon is really intriguing.  Merc is correct, he doesn't really fill a need.  We need a shooter, or a wing, or a good PG.  But ever since I've had the honor of watching Rodman in his prime, I've had a facination with energy guys who can control the paint or even the whole game with their athleticism, defense and rebounding.  

Keneth Faried and Chris Anderson are two more energy guys who rebound and play stiffling D, who I love to watch play.

If Aaron Gordon even has a slight chance of developing into a player like a Rodman or Faried, he's be well worth the gamble at #8.

Yes Mercury and Murph Gordon is in my opinion the best player in this draft. He has an amazing motor and desire to play defense and rebound. And many people don't know that Gordon is a really good ball handler. He was the guy who lead most of the fast breaks for Arizona last year. And the other fact is that is was almost unstoppable driving to the basket and finishing strong. He has a really good first step. But his bread and butter is his defense. I personally have never witnessed a player with his size who had the footwork and the ability to deflect balls as well as really smart positioning skills. There were many moments last season where the fans had there mouths open not believing what they had just witnessed relating to Gordon's burst of speed going from baseline to baseline. Nick Johnson won the MVP for the PAC12 last season but the Arizona team but in my opinion, Gordon was the smartest basketball player on the team. And he did knock down a lot of key 3 point shots in tight games. His shooting stroke is really good. According to coach Sean Miller, Gordon was an All Star in practice shooting the lights out and making 85% of his practice free throws. He didn't shoot well from the line in games but Miller thinks it was only because he was so hyped up and so young being only 18 years old. He has the energy of Rodman for sure. He loves playing defense and he can cover a lot of ground fast. If Gordon is drafted by Detroit, you will all see that he is the smartes and fastest player on the Piston team the first time you see him play. You will love him as all Arizona fans do right now. He is fun to watch and never takes a play off on either end. He will stay in the gym until 1:00 or 2:00 AM after home games to practice. The guy never stop. But best of all, Arron Gordon takes losing personally unlike our current players. He hates losing at anything but especially basketball. My biggest fear is that once is attends the Chicago combine, GMs will take notice and he will go much higher than the 8th pick. But DraftExpress has had him in that 8th spot and if the Piston management team passes on him and takes a guard, it will have been one of the biggest mistakes of all time for this franchise. 

I look at Toronto which I believe is one of the young teams with great potential to rule the NBA in years to come if they can get a good big man and see the quickness and desire of those players and say to myself, I didn't see any of that from any of our Piston players last season. They play both ends extremely hard. Somehow, we have been forced to watch the other kind of player that we have all seen play at the high school and college level. Those players lack two things.The MOTOR and the HEART are absent and the new GM needs to face reality and move forward with some new players regardless of how long it might take to create a good team.

[Murph]

Don, I'm interested in your comments on this A.U. player.
At first glance it would not seem like a good fit for this team... when you dig a little deeper it makes some sense.
Why would we draft a light in the pants PF?... because he's added a lot of weight/strength in one year... because one of our biggest weakness is P&R defense.... because we don't know what will happen with Monroe.
I would be ok with Monroe if he didn't play this many minutes at PF (gives up 21 per at PF).
This team is lacking a Rodman type of athlete.
Even if Gordon is not a stretch 4, I'm not sure he wouldn't be better mid-range shooter than Monroe.
Just trying to get some more dope on the kid.

I have to agree with Don and Merc. Arron Gordon is really intriguing. Merc is correct, he doesn't really fill a need. We need a shooter, or a wing, or a good PG. But ever since I've had the honor of watching Rodman in his prime, I've had a facination with energy guys who can control the paint or even the whole game with their athleticism, defense and rebounding.

Keneth Faried and Chris Anderson are two more energy guys who rebound and play stiffling D, who I love to watch play.

If Aaron Gordon even has a slight chance of developing into a player like a Rodman or Faried, he's be well worth the gamble at #8.

[Oracle]

Don't worry fellas, Murph is watching out for us!

[merc]

Don, I'm interested in your comments on this A.U. player.
At first glance it would not seem like a good fit for this team... when you dig a little deeper it makes some sense.
Why would we draft a light in the pants PF?... because he's added a lot of weight/strength in one year... because one of our biggest weakness is P&R defense.... because we don't know what will happen with Monroe.
I would be ok with Monroe if he didn't play this many minutes at PF (gives up 21 per at PF).
This team is lacking a Rodman type of athlete.
Even if Gordon is not a stretch 4, I'm not sure he wouldn't be better mid-range shooter than Monroe.
Just trying to get some more dope on the kid.

[Oracle]

Murph, NBADraft.net does indeed have Napier at #12, however DraftExpress has him at #29.

Napier, like Stauskus(not in NBADraft.net, but #14 at DraftExpress) , you have to have a belief that they can help you, or it's a wasted pick.

[Oracle]

Wise, Josh does stick out like a sore thumb!

He's a lot older than the core, yet he needs as much or more guidance to function properly, so saying he needed more structure is true, but it's sad that's the case.

Having said that, Don was right earlier, when he said it's hard to judge most players due to the lack of any decent PG play! It's hard to blame the passengers when a dude like Jennings is driving!

I don't think there is any question that Josh can be useful, the question is if it makes sense for us to try!

If you think Monroe doesn't fit, it's hard to see, using similar logic, that you can reason that Josh fits. They both have major holes in their game that are incompatible with where this team needs to go.

The only difference is that Monroe is younger!

[WTF]

For sure Smith can do more things and is more productive than any of the other players on the this current Piston team.

Yet Don you seem to ride Josh the most. When you put it all wrong things together with this team how do you or can you conclude Josh the biggest issue? Sure not based on the last 2 weeks of the season.

Okay you bring up decision making and yes he makes dumb plays but not nearly at the clip you make it seems. He does no more in the dumb decision department as other players on the team as well.

The reason why Josh doesn't fit is because all the other stuff is broken and need fixing. Starting with a competent PG and as first and foremost in the need department.

The only reason one could conclude they looked like a team the last 2 weeks isn't because Josh is this horrible player, it look better because they were force into a position of not trying to play Moose, Andre and Josh all together. No matter how much better they might have looked they would have looked just as good if you swapped Moose and Josh in the same scenario. In fact they might have won those games if Josh exclusively played those PF minutes.

IMO you have an issue with Josh's contract, and the expectation you put on him to go along with it. I was looking for Josh to become a locker room leader, an on court leader, I expected him to do exactly what he's been doing for the most part, I expected him to replace Moose as starting PF.

How can you be mad at a player force out position, and then mad he can't play the position. That would be Joe Dumars fault not Josh's and the same thing can be said in Moose cases to a degree. Josh was doing what every other SF in the league does he just don't do it as well. At the PF positions he's worth every penny of his 13 million a season as a SF I wouldn't pay him half of that.

[cool breeze]

I am surprised that Anderson isn't listed higher and is not listed as a point guard in many draft boards. Anderson, in my opinion, was the heart and soul of the UCLA team this past season. He was the starting point guard and their most effective player. Anderson is going to be a great pro with size, quickness defensive ability and play making skills. He can penetrate well and has a good outside shot in key situations of games. I look at who handles the ball most and which player the coach depends on the most to try to predict success in the NBA. Napier has received a lot of attention after his amazing streak in the NCAA tournament. But I believe he would be a big gamble for any team with a pick in the first half of the first round. Anderson would be a great pick up for Detroit. He can play multiple positions but for Detroit he could be the guy who can direct the team. He has great court vision and davy for a young guy. 

Murph has made his choice for the Pistons - Napier. He was right relating to K. Walker but another small guard scares me. A lot of players including Miles Simon, were unstoppable in the NCAA tournament who flopped in the NBA. Can Napier guard a guy like Westbrook for example. We have Will Bynum and Brandon Jennings who cannot guard anyone. Size does matter and to reduce the risk and fill the need, I don't think the Pistons could lose if they took Anderson. 

Still my first choice is Arron Gordon but I expect he will move way up from the 8th spot after the combine. Gordon is already an elite defender at any position other then defending centers. Gordon is more athletic than any player in this years draft. But we really need a point guard with size and Anderson would fit this team well.

[cool breeze]

Don, I still don't view the Josh Smith signing as a horrible decision only how we elected to use him.  I know you don't like Josh as a player but is he any worse than the other 11 players on this team? No he's not!

Yes was the only idiot in the organization,  1. Gores in never running an NBA team and being the casual fan he is you can excuse him for signing off on some the things Joe need.  But to Gores credit he cut Joe off from making any decisions at the trade deadline.  2. I don't think David or Cantenalla was on board with Joe's decision all the numbers on the Jennings trade advised against it and I'm sure they told Joe dumb ass just that.  

Like I said and its just my opinion on it Gores was basically handing Joe the rope to hang himself because it was a win-win for him no matter how the season went.  Joe get team in playoffs it a win for Gores, Joe fails he gets to fire Joe also a win for Gores.  

Gores felt he couldn't come in the door swinging that axe especially not at Joe so he needed to Joe to fail so when he did finally swing that axe the media and fan base would be on board with it.   Do I think this whole mess should have played out a little differently? Yes

As a casual fan Gores didn't have a clue about who we should draft but left that decision to Joe, Gores had no clues to if the Josh singing or Jennings trades were good for the team?  Gores was clueless to quite a bit and as Oracle pointed out its growing pains.  

At this point I don't care who makes the decisions on the next hire as long as Gores isn't making them because he doesn't have the basketball knowledge to make them only.  

IMO the easy thing to do is give Zeke the GM job and hire Laimbeer as coach then hope it works out.  This will appease both the media and fan base and could possibly work out.  There's no gaurantees no matter what he decides really.

Wisefan I personally and tired of the Piston organization taking leftovers or players that do not fit in for one reason or the other. For sure Smith can do more things and is more productive than any of the other players on the this current Piston team. But is he a smart player or a guy who can lead younger players? Does he set a good example with his work ethic relating to being dedicated to improving the way he plays and changing his decision making skills? Atlanta believed they couldn't get along without Teague or their other key players but they did believe the team wouldn't suffer losing Josh Smith. I guess this is old news now because Joe Dumars has been fired. But we must now worry about this owner and the other two men who have ownership and are involved in decision making. It wasn't smart to give away Knight and Middleton who are athletic and will be good players given more time to make room for Brandon Jennings. Jennings was another player his previous team had no interest in signing. So why did our owners go along with Dumars on that call? Middleton wouldn't have cost much at all to keep him on the roster. And Knight would have brought something good in a trade say perhaps a good draft pick not that I would trade him at all. Nobody was really interested in Jennings so why the give away for another left over? But I agree that Jennings is not in the league of a player like Smith. When Smith was finishing his career with the Hawks none of his teammates were excited about him signing a new contract with that team. I believe his teammates believed that they couldn't win with him more than anything. Players want to win and to do that everyone must be on the same page. Josh is in his own world and beats to his own drum. He is not a consistent guy who makes sound decisions on the floor. His outside shooting and free throw shooting skills are so bad he would hurt a playoff team. Atlanta management decided that Josh was not going to improve at that point and was not the kind of player who puts in the extra work it takes to eliminate mental mistakes and improve free throw and outside shooting percentages. You have to wonder if Joe Dumars and our Piston owners ever thought of that before jumping in. It seems to me this organization has the label of the blind leading the blind. WIthout Josh in the lineup in the last two weeks of the regular season, I enjoyed watching the team a lot more because they played more like a real team than at any other time in the season. When Smith was playing it looked as if the players had never played together before. Our highest paid player needs to be a leader and role model for the other younger players. He has to lead the way and set the tone. 

During the Memphis-Thunder game last night I watched Prince dribble the ball up the court where he then started the offense. There he was starting the offense still playing ball and playing in another playoff game. It wasn't so long ago that he blocked that shot of Miller's was it?  He was an important member of the Piston team before he was traded. But a lot of fans thought he was the problem. No Prince plays the right way. In his last year here, Detroit was not a good team. But I liked watching the team better. We had a smarter team then even when considering Maxiell. Maxiell was just not big enough. He at least knew what he was doing and gave an effort on defense. It is clear to me that our roster is loaded with low basketball IQ players who have never learned the fundamentals of playing basketball the right way. We have playground type players who look amazing in pick up games. Some know how to dunk but can't set a good screen or box out on defense or even get their hand up to contest a shot. We have Smith and Jennings standing out on the perimeter jacking up low percentage shots that the opponent hopes they will try. They pass the ball to each other rather than reversing the basketball to the open man to make the defense work. That is what happened during the months of December, January and Feb. It was horrible basketball and both Jennings and Smith were the major players creating this dull inept Piston history. Smith would only be a good fit with an experienced team with a strong leader where the leader would set Josh straight on how things will go down. In other words, there is no way that Smith would last long playing like he did last season if he played with a guy like Zeke and Laimbeer when they were experience and in their prime. Josh is in his prime right now and look at how he approaches the game of basketball. The best plan should be to get something for him in a trade with the owner kicking in some money to offset his crazy salary.

[Murph]

I see on this mock draft, Shabazz Napier has moved up to 12th, ahead of Doogie "Howser" McDermott I might add.

If he currently listed at 12, then taking Napier at #8 would NOT be a stretch.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2014mock_draft

[Murph]

Don't buy the hype.

[WTF]

They should take Doug Mcdermott if he's available and the same for Stauskas. Best thing would be if we could land both of them somehow   

Then we could straight up trade Monroe and KCP to Boston for Rondo and I wouldn't be crying if my starting unit next season was Rondo, Stauskas, Mcdermott, Josh and Andre. I guarantee you Josh would never take another 3 point attempt in a game ever.

[WTF]

We got Josh for the same reason why we should lose Monroe this season sorta kinda. I don't think Atlanta view Josh as a bad teammate and that it came down to not wanting to pay him the 54 Million the Pistons were willing to pay and this is going to be the same case with us letting Monroe walk. Atlanta basically didn't know how to use Smith either especially once they fired Woodson.

My belief is right coach and right PG and Josh can be a consistent All Closing out his career. Josh has a motor Monroe and most players will never have. His very capable of meeting that bare minimum number of 20-10 I've set for Monroe if put in the right situation. Josh is very capable of triple night just in pts, rebs and ast while tossing in a few blks and steals to boot but needs to be controlled by both a competent coach and PG.

Could you even imagine Calderon giving Josh the ball in situation where he's going to take a poor shot? No! you couldn't.

That leads me to this question. How much better would this team have been if Joe simply resigned Calderon and made that trade for Aldridge oppose to signing Josh and trading for Jennings. What if we went into the season with Calderon, Knight Middleton or Singler, Aldridge and Andre starting?

Aldridge, Cousins and Smith were all high on my list so I would have been okay with any of these three in a trade scenario involving Monroe. We got greedy in the wrong why and made the mistake of putting both Monroe and Josh out of position when we could have easily had any of these three as our PF going forward.

The real decision as I've have stated a thousand of times should have been the direction we wanted to go with our centers Greg or Andre stead we made the decision of playing 2 players out of position and crossing our finger while invoking our wildest imaginations of it working.

Imagine this! Aldridge putting up numbers like he has the past 2 games next to Andre putting up his monster numbers at the same time in a playoff game.

[WTF]

To the credit of the combined intelligence of this forum, damn near everybody wanted a Monroe for Aldridge trade done before the season started and LA blew up like he did - DX

Yep and then what happen? As usual Joe blows another Golden Opportunity as all the Monroe supporters applauded great decision Joe.   


From an overall stand point Monroe has to be the worse starting PF in the league even if his stats put him above half way on the list. Could you even imagine Monroe putting together back to back games like that? Hell No! I can see Andre doing it and I can see Josh doing but never this lazy underachieving ass player that some seem to think is worth a max deal.   

As I said before the bare minimum for Moose is that he should be a consistent 20-10 player even at this point of his career and his short comings to meeting this is his work ethics and effort. You never see any of these other players running off a **** string of games like Monroe has not even the Diva DHo as Oracle refers him   

[cool breeze]

Don, I still don't view the Josh Smith signing as a horrible decision only how we elected to use him.  I know you don't like Josh as a player but is he any worse than the other 11 players on this team? No he's not!

Yes was the only idiot in the organization,  1. Gores in never running an NBA team and being the casual fan he is you can excuse him for signing off on some the things Joe need.  But to Gores credit he cut Joe off from making any decisions at the trade deadline.  2. I don't think David or Cantenalla was on board with Joe's decision all the numbers on the Jennings trade advised against it and I'm sure they told Joe dumb ass just that.  

Like I said and its just my opinion on it Gores was basically handing Joe the rope to hang himself because it was a win-win for him no matter how the season went.  Joe get team in playoffs it a win for Gores, Joe fails he gets to fire Joe also a win for Gores.  

Gores felt he couldn't come in the door swinging that axe especially not at Joe so he needed to Joe to fail so when he did finally swing that axe the media and fan base would be on board with it.   Do I think this whole mess should have played out a little differently? Yes

As a casual fan Gores didn't have a clue about who we should draft but left that decision to Joe, Gores had no clues to if the Josh singing or Jennings trades were good for the team?  Gores was clueless to quite a bit and as Oracle pointed out its growing pains.  

At this point I don't care who makes the decisions on the next hire as long as Gores isn't making them because he doesn't have the basketball knowledge to make them only.  

IMO the easy thing to do is give Zeke the GM job and hire Laimbeer as coach then hope it works out.  This will appease both the media and fan base and could possibly work out.  There's no gaurantees no matter what he decides really.

Wisefan I believe if Thomas and Laimbeer were in control of operations they would quickly remove most of the players on this team. That game against Miami in March when the Bad Boys were at the Palace and Thomas was chanting "Beat the Heat" had to leave an lasting bad taste in the mouth of any Piston fan and especially the former Piston players who had to watch the current player's performance. The current players should have been motivated to give a great second half effort but the opposite occurred. The team gave up really early in the 3rd quarter. So if our two former heroes got control of things, no player on this current team would be safe. They saw for themselves that these players are content and not embarrassed by getting their asses pounded so easily. I believe Smith is a problem. He has been a problem on every team he has ever played on Wisefan. He could be an amazing superstar but choses to be a bad teammate. He doesn't care enough to work on his weaknesses. He is not a coachable player and if you are not a coachable player with many defects in your game, you become a liability for any team. You have to want to be used properly and play within the framework of your team. Josh has a history of beating  to his own drum and that makes him dangerous for any young team.

[cool breeze]

The Blazers has been the other team that I have followed throughout the season along with the Pistons. They are opposites. Portland has real talent and unselfish players who move the ball from side to side and inside and out on offense. All the players get back on defense fast. There are no slackers or players who often stand on the baseline if a ref doesn't make a call. This is an excuse to rest for a few seconds and then jog back on defense. Has anyone seen any player do that in the playoffs so far? Portland players get their hands up above their heads and move their feet on defense and contest shots while our players often have their hands down at their sides looking tired and out of shape and standing watching the action. So that was a reality check for me early in the season to see how hard Portland players played regulars season games as opposed to our players. 

There is a basic lack of talent on the Piston team right now. The players are not only lacking talent but they are not in really great shape and they are not athletic enough. There is something so important on the NBA level and that is your MOTOR. I have watched Arron Gordon play for his college team in every game. He has that special MOTOR where he never looks tired and is so much faster in every area of the game than the players he is up against. Yet he is only 18 years old and many of the players he has gone up against are 22 years old with a lot of experience. Zeke had that special gift. You look on that Blazer team and that is what they have - a lot of players with great MOTORS. The cardio system is important at the NBA level much like the elite marathon runners. When evaluating college players GMs must be careful not to get suckered in with college guards who have high scoring averages and hit shots from the outside against college defenses especially zone defenses. The guards have to be exceptionally quick or they won't be effective NBA players. There are so many NBA games and a lot of players cannot cope with it well because they were not blessed with the super human cardio system. You see it clearly with the Blazers because the players are always smiling even in the regular season when things are not going will for them. 

Portland players are having fun. It is no effort for them to play basketball. 
Meanwhile, Detroit has players who in the months of December, January and Feb looked extremely tired and out of sorts. Few players gave a real effort on defense. Most of the players took the easy road on offense where they would only run the first option - l will dribble and shoot the basketball and screw my teammates. Or I will get the pass and jack up a long jump shot and screw my teammates. We have few real athletes on this Piston team that are anyway near the level that most NBA rotation players are at. None of our big men can defend well and are not quick enough. We have no shot blockers you can count on in crunch time including Drummond who is a horrible defender. 

This Piston team could easily have had the worst record in the NBA this season. Other teams had injuries and the Pistons had no real injuries all year with the exception of Harrelison. The players as a group are not dedicated and do not enjoy playing the game and are not interested in getting better. For example, you have to learn how to shoot free throws on your own with extreme practice. Most players do that in high school and have free throw shooting down before they enter college. However some of the big men have issues in college and are short timers leaving school after one year. So it is up to those players to work endlessly on free throw shooting. Flash forward to Josh Smith. This guy has no excuse for shooting at such an inept percentage. He changes his stance and the distance from the foul line often. His face shows me he is not concentrating on his shot. And Josh is not alone when it comes to free throw shooting when you look at the players on the roster. We have the loser players. After I watched the Blazers and the Pistons all season long, there is no mistaking what kind of players the owners has signed to contracts. We have players who accept losing and never believe it is their fault. They do not enjoy playing the game and believe playing basketball is work. 

 In the last 2 weeks of the season our guys appeared to have a different look. The players looked more athletic. They were sharing the basketball, playing better defense and looking as if they were enjoying themselves. Note that Josh Smith and Will Bynum were not playing one minute of those games. And it just so happens that both Smith and Bynum were involved in the firing of Mo Cheeks. They were the two players Cheeks had confronted and Mo had benched Will. But Mr. Gores adores WIll Bynum and of course Loyer had his marching orders - get Will back in the lineup. I wonder if Gores has put two and two together now if he is watching the playoffs.  Will Bynum is a good man. But Will is an example of a player who is a really bad fit for the Pistons. Jennings is also a bad fit but at least Jennings knows it. While Portland's top management team has identified who the special gifted dedicated players are, our upper management and owners are still in dummy land signing players who have no chance of competing with those Portland studs and other playoff teams. I hope Portland can win it all. Lillard reminds me so much of Zeke it is crazy. He makes plays when it counts. He gets the loose balls when it counts. Damn and the players around him sure can play basketball especially that big man with a name starting with A. What an amazing athlete! Did I say we have none of those type of players?? We have players who think they are talented and don't know how much work it takes to become an effective player on both ends of the floor. We have no player who has developed himself enough to lead the others. It is the blind leading the blind.Thanks Mr. Gores for being AWOL.

[WTF]

Don, I still don't view the Josh Smith signing as a horrible decision only how we elected to use him. I know you don't like Josh as a player but is he any worse than the other 11 players on this team? No he's not!

Yes was the only idiot in the organization, 1. Gores in never running an NBA team and being the casual fan he is you can excuse him for signing off on some the things Joe need. But to Gores credit he cut Joe off from making any decisions at the trade deadline. 2. I don't think David or Cantenalla was on board with Joe's decision all the numbers on the Jennings trade advised against it and I'm sure they told Joe dumb ass just that.

Like I said and its just my opinion on it Gores was basically handing Joe the rope to hang himself because it was a win-win for him no matter how the season went. Joe get team in playoffs it a win for Gores, Joe fails he gets to fire Joe also a win for Gores.

Gores felt he couldn't come in the door swinging that axe especially not at Joe so he needed to Joe to fail so when he did finally swing that axe the media and fan base would be on board with it. Do I think this whole mess should have played out a little differently? Yes

As a casual fan Gores didn't have a clue about who we should draft but left that decision to Joe, Gores had no clues to if the Josh singing or Jennings trades were good for the team? Gores was clueless to quite a bit and as Oracle pointed out its growing pains.

At this point I don't care who makes the decisions on the next hire as long as Gores isn't making them because he doesn't have the basketball knowledge to make them only.

IMO the easy thing to do is give Zeke the GM job and hire Laimbeer as coach then hope it works out. This will appease both the media and fan base and could possibly work out. There's no gaurantees no matter what he decides really.

[deusXango]

Well DHo stepped up, but Harden punks out yet again in the Playoffs!,

DX, I still like Harden, but that's why I didn't want him, he has shown time and time again that he's a regular season dude, not a primetime player!

Aldridge is a BEAST, and I wish Moose had half of his talent! Shoot from anywhere, dangerous on the block, and with two games of 40+ points in a row, the dude steps it up when the lights come on... IMPRESSIVE!

Oracle, at first blush I thought you were talking about my boy LaMarcus Aldridge.   Seriously though, I wouldn't give up on Harden...he is a helluva SG and in the playoffs (which we aren't).

At the beginning of the season I tabbed the Rockets to be my 2nd favorite team (don't really care for Howard or any other diva) in the NBA, because of the talent they were willing to sign and give a chance to develop...Harden, Parsons, Moutiejunas, Lin, and McHale went from the front office to the bench and has been doing a bang-up job; I think it may be a little too early to write the Rockets off.

To the credit of the combined intelligence of this forum, damn near everybody wanted a Monroe for Aldridge trade done before the season started and LA blew up like he did...if not for Durant, he'd be my choice for league MVP! Yeah, even over the King.

[cool breeze]

As I said before, Gores is a smart man, but as of now, he's not even close to being a smart owner!

Seb & Lemon nailed it, this crap is comical, but it's growing pains for a new owner!

Oracle I agree its growing pains for Gores, but I don't think this would have been an issue or a big concern if the had been Mike Ilitch which I was hoping would happen.  

Gores has a casual fan mentality and not a real fan mentality and I think that's what scares me the most with him. I think Gore first mistake as owner was keeping Joe for not a basketball reason but to cuddle the fan base here when he should have came through the door swinging a big axe at the time.    My next fear is that he's going to do kind of the same if he hires the popular hire over the right hire because the popular thing always seem like the right thing to a casual fan.  

I don't want him falling back to much on his business experience to make the decision either because non basketball related so I guess we all have to keep our fingers cross for now.  At the minimum he has to get at least 1 on these hires correct but I'm hoping he gets them both right.    

Wisefan is it Mr. Gores who has had the most influence or the two other owners that have been around the Palace and involved with operations? Gores might just listen to those two men and go with whatever they might think. The decisons of bringing in Josh Smith and trading Knight and Middleton for another dysfunctional player in Jennings has set this team back several years. Joe Dumars can't be the only idiot. But I do know that Gores seems to love Will Bynum the Palace circus act. He is small and fast and seems to be a crowd pleaser for a crowd that doesn't know much about the kind of players it takes to win games.

[WTF]

2014 Detroit Lions schedule

(All games at 1 p.m., unless noted.)

Sept. 8 — vs. N.Y. Giants on “Monday Night Football,” 7:10 p.m., ESPN

Sept. 14 — at Carolina, Fox

Sept. 21 — vs. Green Bay, Fox

Sept. 28 — at N.Y. Jets, Fox

Oct. 5 — vs. Buffalo, Fox

Oct. 12 — at Minnesota, Fox

Oct. 19 — vs. New Orleans, Fox

Oct. 26 — at Falcons (London’s Wembley Stadium), 9:30 a.m., Fox

Nov. 2 — Bye week

Nov. 9 — vs. Miami, CBS

Nov. 16 — at Arizona, 4:25 p.m., Fox

Nov. 23 — at New England, Fox

Nov. 27 — vs. Chicago (Thanksgiving), 12:30 p.m., CBS

Dec. 7 — vs. Tampa Bay, Fox

Dec. 14 — vs. Minnesota, Fox

Dec. 21 — at Chicago, Fox

Dec. 28 — at Green Bay, Fox

Damn this schedule looks concerning this year.   The last 6 games of the season is scary games so the Lions will have to come out of the gate flying.  At first glance you can conclude 8-8 then its get a little difficult trying to figure where the other 2-4 wins could come from.  

Caldwell say's the Lions could win now, lets see what you got coach   

I high-lighted 11 games I think they should win.

[WTF]

As I said before, Gores is a smart man, but as of now, he's not even close to being a smart owner!

Seb & Lemon nailed it, this crap is comical, but it's growing pains for a new owner!

Oracle I agree its growing pains for Gores, but I don't think this would have been an issue or a big concern if the had been Mike Ilitch which I was hoping would happen.

Gores has a casual fan mentality and not a real fan mentality and I think that's what scares me the most with him. I think Gore first mistake as owner was keeping Joe for not a basketball reason but to cuddle the fan base here when he should have came through the door swinging a big axe at the time. My next fear is that he's going to do kind of the same if he hires the popular hire over the right hire because the popular thing always seem like the right thing to a casual fan.

I don't want him falling back to much on his business experience to make the decision either because non basketball related so I guess we all have to keep our fingers cross for now. At the minimum he has to get at least 1 on these hires correct but I'm hoping he gets them both right.

[Oracle]

As I said before, Gores is a smart man, but as of now, he's not even close to being a smart owner!

Seb & Lemon nailed it, this crap is comical, but it's growing pains for a new owner!

[Oracle]

Well DHo stepped up, but Harden punks out yet again in the Playoffs!,

DX, I still like Harden, but that's why I didn't want him, he has shown time and time again that he's a regular season dude, not a primetime player!

Aldridge is a BEAST, and I wish Moose had half of his talent! Shoot from anywhere, dangerous on the block, and with two games of 40+ points in a row, the dude steps it up when the lights come on... IMPRESSIVE!

[cool breeze]

Basketball is everything to the people who live in Tucson, AZ. When the college season is over reporters have to dig deep to come up with basketball stories which everyone knows sells newspapers. So today I read an article relating to Arizona players who are in the NBA now and what their thought are. Even though WIll Bynum transferred after being benched in his second season the Arizona Daily Star includes all former players in most articles and compiles stats during the NBA season reporting the players daily work. So the reporter lists Will's stats 56 games played-8.7 ppt-1.8 rpg to 1.8. Salary 2.79 million per year. Then he lists Will's quote so here goes.

 "When you have two guards out there that can penetrate, get into the paint, find each other and that can run the team, it just makes it difficult to guard - especially in the fourth quarter because you need more than one ball handler". That quote was from MLive.com. 

Oh my God can you believe that statement???? Here we go again next season with Will and Brandon both being capable of running the offense on the same floor together. WOW! Are tears flowing yet? So it seems that WIll still isn't worried about his defense or his comrade's ability to defend. I keep watching the playoff games and keep telling myself our Piston players have no clue what they would be up against if he ever made the playoffs. My best guess is that our team would lose every game by 50 points and our two inept guard who run the show would allow 50 points each as in the playoffs players smell meat and there is no mercy like in the regular season games. The opponent would exploit all of our guards. I see all the players in this playoffs really trying hard to get loose balls and fighting for every scrap. That never happened in one game with our players. Perhaps the reason why Mr. Gores has not announced the name of the new GM is because all candidates are saying NO THANKS.

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