Trade the whole team?

[Grizz2]

I'm ready to act on the suggestion made of trading the entire team. Chicago played the right way, continuing to work hard after falling back by 17, tightening their defense, working well together on offense. Noah was an absolute beast and Hinrich picked up his game after being torched by Knight in the first quarter. Boozer and Deng played tough and smart.

As to Detroit, terrific start, just about up to halftime. Stuckey played great and Knight shot beautifully early. Charlie V. not only shot from distance but made nice move to the inside. Solid game by Prince. Ineffectual play by Singler -- in one stretch his play led to four of five Bull stops, included by way of a block and an intercepted pass. I thought Frank was going to pull him.

Little things that encouraged me: trapped on the side by two guys, Knight spotted Maxiell to his side for a nice assist; Stuckey found a cutting Drummond three times for an assist, maybe a taste of things ahead.

Discouraging stuff: the Pistons again did a crummy job of boxing out, mainly on Noah. Monroe needs to be both stronger and quicker or teams are going to continue to torture us with offensive rebounds.

The main offensive problem was that it was too much one man play, again. Even in the first half run, success came more more hot starts by BK, Stuck, and CV than from team play. In the second half, the isolation play became a serious problem against a stiffening Chicago defense, to the point that Kelser freely criticized.

btw, it occurred to me that Noah might provide a fairly good model of what we can project for Drummond. Early, I felt that might be setting the ceiling a bit low. By the end of the game -- once Noah had put up numbers that would have made Wilt proud -- it seemed like an optimistic projection. Part of the similarity that I see is that both are surprisingly good passers.

I say trade the head coaches instead .. We'd be just be fine .. You can expect more of this .. the other team outplaying us at the end of the game .. or 3rd quarter ..

[Oracle]

"Oracle ..nope . you cannot put it all on CV .. and I dont ... I think you are overstating it as BK7 being the problem"

Grizz, I'm not putting the loss on Knight, I'm just saying he makes a lot of mental errors on passes, drives, etc.

But even so, he scored 21, but Stuckey continues to shame him on assists.

I don't see that as blaming Knight, I actually see the upside when the mistakes subside, and we're left with a high scoring, high assist PG capable of leading the team.

I'm Bullish(no pun intended) on this team, if you can stand the losing, and have the ability to read between the lines, this is a REALLY good team waiting to grow up!

Young Lions get abused by hyenas, but when they grow up, they stop taking any stuff, and start establishing who's boss.

Our young Lions are just getting there, it's going to take some time.

Adding anyone other than a solid PG to this team isn't going to help!

They're good enough, but they need better floor leadership! That's not a knock on Knight, just a recognition that we need something other than scoring, and he needs to see how it's supposed to be done.

Quarterback is one of the hardest positions, but once you get the right one, you can take off!

[Sparma]

I like the Pistons' future than the Bulls, so I wouldn't pull the trigger quite yet. It's just hard to root for such an individualistic team offensively, one which predictably bogs down, and a defensive team that opponents beat up in getting offensive boards. And a routinely unimaginative coaching staff with little longterm vision doesn't help things. The Bulls played hard, played together, and played smart. That's a likeable combination, even if it's your own team they're exposing.

I'm ready to act on the suggestion made of trading the entire team. Chicago played the right way, continuing to work hard after falling back by 17, tightening their defense, working well together on offense. Noah was an absolute beast and Hinrich picked up his game after being torched by Knight in the first quarter. Boozer and Deng played tough and smart.

As to Detroit, terrific start, just about up to halftime. Stuckey played great and Knight shot beautifully early. Charlie V. not only shot from distance but made nice move to the inside. Solid game by Prince. Ineffectual play by Singler -- in one stretch his play led to four of five Bull stops, included by way of a block and an intercepted pass. I thought Frank was going to pull him.

Little things that encouraged me: trapped on the side by two guys, Knight spotted Maxiell to his side for a nice assist; Stuckey found a cutting Drummond three times for an assist, maybe a taste of things ahead.

Discouraging stuff: the Pistons again did a crummy job of boxing out, mainly on Noah. Monroe needs to be both stronger and quicker or teams are going to continue to torture us with offensive rebounds.

The main offensive problem was that it was too much one man play, again. Even in the first half run, success came more more hot starts by BK, Stuck, and CV than from team play. In the second half, the isolation play became a serious problem against a stiffening Chicago defense, to the point that Kelser freely criticized.

btw, it occurred to me that Noah might provide a fairly good model of what we can project for Drummond. Early, I felt that might be setting the ceiling a bit low. By the end of the game -- once Noah had put up numbers that would have made Wilt proud -- it seemed like an optimistic projection. Part of the similarity that I see is that both are surprisingly good passers.

I say trade the head coaches instead .. We'd be just be fine .. You can expect more of this .. the other team outplaying us at the end of the game .. or 3rd quarter ..

[cool breeze]

Not all Piston players are playing with minimum effort. I grew tired of watching the game knowing what the outcome would be so I just watched Prince go from offense to defense. He could be seen shaking his head at times. Prince is a real pro. He gets to his spots everytime. He knows what the guy he is defending wants to do and tries to take that way. NBA players are so gifted that no matter what you do at times, your assigned player will still score on you. Prince is a smart ball player playing on a team with an overall extremely low basketball IQ. It all starts with the big men. I doubt if the best point guard in the league could be effective in getting this team on track consistantly night after night. The big men just make too many mistakes especially on defense. The Chicago big men kept repeating the same thing on every possession in the 2nd half and guys like Monroe never learned a thing after getting suckered time after time. I have one question for Monroe. Does he think he can defend any guard in the NBA? And does he think that when he switches a guy like Knight can guard his assigned big man? This keeps happening game after game. Monroe acts as if he is asleep on defense and it doesn't faze him when his guy rolls to the basket shoots and misses and rebounds the ball and scores. That would make be burn inside but Monroe just lets this same thing go on all night long. Drummond gets a pass on this game and on everytime he plays a team for the first time. Still I saw some good things with Drummond's play tonight. He is quick. He can dish out punishment and take punishment. There is real hope for Drummond if he keeps his head in the game. Maxiell tried hard again tonight and is just giving up too much size. It is a joke that he is the starting power forward but he is better than Monroe for sure on defense. However, Monroe is much better on defense than Charlie V. That was a pitiful performance by charlie tonight in the paint on defense. He as actually watching the game much of the time like a fan. Charlie might score 25 points but he will give up 35 or more with his lack of interest with defense. We didn't see Jerebco. I would like to see him play if only for a few minutes. Same for English. WHY IS MAGGETTE GETTING ANY PLAYING TIME. THE ONLY EXCITMENT HE BRINGS IS WEARING THE SAME HEAD BAND AS CHARLIE V? Do those players believe the opponent will fear them more? Does it give them more confidence? Is this something Frank thought up to distract the fans? I thought that Knight played well tonight but Henrick played better had better big men to play with. We saw the same old Stuckey tonight. He doesn't look like he has learned anything in all this time in the league. He made some nice baskets but he never was able to get his team involved in the game on offense. After awhile, everyone was just standing around watching Stuckey. It was about as interesting as watching some 60 year olds play a game of HORSE. The coach has no plays for Singler and bragged about that fact about two weeks ago. Sorry but no player can go for 5 minutes at a time without touching the basketball and then make shots. Frank is using Singler the same way a previous coach used Michael Curry. However, Curry had no offensive skills. The true test of a bad team is when the team plays only one side of the court all the time. That is what the Pistons do and that is why Singler never touches the basketball. Does Frank believe the Pistons are a contender for the championship? Is that why he is playing Maggette instead of using some of the other rookies to see what they can do with regular playing time? I sure won't lose any sleep if he gets fired for that reason. I do not believe that any coach can turn this team into a winner. If you watch some of the singing contests on TV you will see maybe one or two singers stand out from everyone else. It is a no brainer who is better. Well we see night after night that our big men are no match for other NBA players. It is just that simple. Detroit gives up more points in the paint than any other team and they are last in defensive rebounding and giving up second chance points. Hey it was good to see Jim Barker get recognized at halftime tonight for his coaching career at Utica Ford. I used to coach against Barker and he is one smart guy when it comes to getting the best out of his players. He had one player named Scott Glidden who was one of those special Larry Bird type guys. He didn't look like a basketball player being extremely thin. But he could do everything well including bang with the biggest players. He has to be the most mentally tough player at the high school level that I have ever seen. Too bad some of our Piston players lack special thing that Scott had. If they had it, Detroit wouldn't have lost the way they did tonight. Our big men should be embarrassed as hell right now.

[deusXango]

You discover that your primary care physican is a "quack" and you're alright with that......"he'll learn medicine over time."

You actually believe in "voodoo economics." Spending money that ain't there is what credit is all about, isn't it?

In the Old West, you decide to be a gunfighter, even though you're slow on the draw; "I'm gonna stare 'em down like Davy Crockett did that bear."

The more I watch Lil' Larry coach this team, the more dumb sh!t like that comes across my mind. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and this shouldn't be about "On the Job Training." Smoke and mirror explanations as to why he doesn't do the obvious? Delusional thinking. The best is not being done on the bench. Poor player deployment, no recognition of the need to manage the clock, watching runs instead of stopping runs, no offensive philosophy. It's okay to talk defense (every coach worth his salt believes in defense) but, if that's all you're going to do, you should be undenialbly the best.

If ever there was a time to see Kravtsov, it was last night. When Singler was having a bad night (all players do) why not give us a look at English? It's the little things that are being ignored that are going to come back to haunt us down the road. Alas, it seems the more disappointing our team plays, the more enamoured some of us become with Lil' Larry. Why???

[Grizz2]

"Oracle ..nope . you cannot put it all on CV .. and I dont ... I think you are overstating it as BK7 being the problem"

Grizz, I'm not putting the loss on Knight, I'm just saying he makes a lot of mental errors on passes, drives, etc.

But even so, he scored 21, but Stuckey continues to shame him on assists.

I don't see that as blaming Knight, I actually see the upside when the mistakes subside, and we're left with a high scoring, high assist PG capable of leading the team.

I'm Bullish(no pun intended) on this team, if you can stand the losing, and have the ability to read between the lines, this is a REALLY good team waiting to grow up!

Young Lions get abused by hyenas, but when they grow up, they stop taking any stuff, and start establishing who's boss.

Our young Lions are just getting there, it's going to take some time.

Adding anyone other than a solid PG to this team isn't going to help!

They're good enough, but they need better floor leadership! That's not a knock on Knight, just a recognition that we need something other than scoring, and he needs to see how it's supposed to be done.

Quarterback is one of the hardest positions, but once you get the right one, you can take off!

Oracle.. Will back off a bit on defending Knight .. Stuckey is out performing Knight on assists ... which should hardly ever happen .. But .. I do know what I saw .. I see Knight taking on the Chicago Bulls without much integration of his teammates .. They are seldom cutting to the basket or to going to open spaces on the floor where they shoot after a pass from BK7... I want Frank to teach the players how to play together and run actual plays instead of these clear outs .. Frank is the Head Coach .. He has to teach Knight and the other players .. right now .. BK7 is playing like a SG .. not a PG .. If Frank were teaching the players to run plays and Knight was not running them .. then he would have been benched long ago .. This is by Frank's design .. IMO .. We are not playing smart offense ... Think about it .. Stuckey and Bynum .. The same thing for the past 3 seasons .. Does not that ring a BELL? If the coaches and GM were on our PGs to play like PGs and the rest of the team to move as they need to move to receive passes and set screens .. then Stuckey and Bynum and Knight would not be playing so much street ball .. Tell me where I am wrong on this... anyone ..

I really agree this is a dynamite team in the making .. Drummond and Monroe need to immediately be paired and learn how to play together .. 1 Big man is not going work ..

[Grizz2]

You discover that your primary care physican is a "quack" and you're alright with that......"he'll learn medicine over time."

You actually believe in "voodoo economics." Spending money that ain't there is what credit is all about, isn't it?

In the Old West, you decide to be a gunfighter, even though you're slow on the draw; "I'm gonna stare 'em down like Davy Crockett did that bear."

The more I watch Lil' Larry coach this team, the more dumb sh!t like that comes across my mind. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and this shouldn't be about "On the Job Training." Smoke and mirror explanations as to why he doesn't do the obvious? Delusional thinking. The best is not being done on the bench. Poor player deployment, no recognition of the need to manage the clock, watching runs instead of stopping runs, no offensive philosophy. It's okay to talk defense (every coach worth his salt believes in defense) but, if that's all you're going to do, you should be undenialbly the best.

If ever there was a time to see Kravtsov, it was last night. When Singler was having a bad night (all players do) why not give us a look at English? It's the little things that are being ignored that are going to come back to haunt us down the road. Alas, it seems the more disappointing our team plays, the more enamoured some of us become with Lil' Larry. Why???

DX .. I want to be patient with Larry Frank .. but I lose it when I actually saw the game like I could today .. All your vents make perfect sense ... We were being demolished on the boards but will we use BOTH Drummond and Monroe? Or Kravtsov? Nope .. not gonna happen .. We need Frank to develop some game as a head coach this season or ... we need a real head coach ASAP to replace him ... Lack of Patience? Curry and Kuester preceeding Frank is one hell of a drain on anyone's patience with head coaches ..

[Grizz2]

... no one can question his offensive shooting Last night vs the Bulls .. but as Cynic has been saying for the past 3 years .. IF CV has been disappointing . it is because of how the head coach has been using him .. Frank started using him in a smart fashion .. end of quarters against players who would not burn him on offense .. Vs. the Bulls .. when Boozer was back in the game and CV was guarding him .. it was men against boys .. Frank should not have allowed this match up .. Posterized him several times ..

What I was complaining about .. was the match up ..

Frank has to keep playing CV but has to do it in an intelligent fashion and dont ask him to play D vs a big lug like Boozer .. if Monroe and Drummond were both in the game .. we win this game most likely ..

[Grizz2]

Goodwill: The only time Noah was slowed somewhat was when Andre Drummond's quick feet and long arms kept him relatively in check, and one has to wonder why Drummond and Greg Monroe — who did struggle against Noah — didn't play together.

[WTF]

"This is a challenge every single night," coach Lawrence Frank said. "There are no easy games from Greg's standpoint.

"Greg's still a young player as well. This is Year 3 for him, so he's still a developing player and learning and growing."

Detroit Freep

I kind of suspected Monore 3rd season to be not as good as last season, but the above statement doesn't help him one bit. Comments like that will make Monroe think its okay to play as he's been playing and he will continue to do so if he's not being push.

I can almost imagine the same comments being made in another 2 years if no one gets in his ass soon about how he's been playing. The media in Sactown stay in Cousins ass while here the media always pacifying the under-acheiving players on our roster.

As Kobe would say Monroe needs to put on his Big Boy Pants

[WTF]

... no one can question his offensive shooting Last night vs the Bulls .. but as Cynic has been saying for the past 3 years .. IF CV has been disappointing . it is because of how the head coach has been using him .. Frank started using him in a smart fashion .. end of quarters against players who would not burn him on offense .. Vs. the Bulls .. when Boozer was back in the game and CV was guarding him .. it was men against boys .. Frank should not have allowed this match up .. Posterized him several times ..

What I was complaining about .. was the match up ..

Frank has to keep playing CV but has to do it in an intelligent fashion and dont ask him to play D vs a big lug like Boozer .. if Monroe and Drummond were both in the game .. we win this game most likely ..

I don't know Boozer and Noah got the best of entire front-court so I wouldn't call it a bad match up. In fact CV did quite well considering his lack of defensive prowess. Even the best defensive players get posterized in this league and it's not that much different than watching Lee and Kaman whipping on Monroe ass the previous 2 games.

Hard to blame Frank for deciding offense over defense in certain moments. I think in this game Frank made the correct choice, where we keep losing these types of game is with the inexperience of our PG to take control of this games in crucial moments.

[WTF]

Leave it to a Twitter follower to set me straight.

After another Andre Drummond offensive rebound in Wednesday night's loss to the Warriors, I tweeted Drummond has the potential to be one of the best offensive rebounders.

A follower let me know Drummond leads the NBA in offensive rebound percentage (18.5), a stat that tells the percentage of available offensive rebounds a player gets.

Basically, the follower was telling me that Drummond already is one of the league's best offensive rebounders -- 20 games into his career.

Hey, I'm a traditionalist, and I'm new to this advanced stats stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

Just another reason that fans say Drummond should get more playing time.

You can hear the chorus growing louder after Drummond contributed 15 points, 12 rebounds, two blocked shots and several "wow" moments in a career-high 30-plus minutes for the Pistons on Wednesday.

My Twitter followers are aware of the running debate I've been having with followers over Drummond's minutes. I sense they are thinking that I am ready to concede that Drummond -- a rookie from UConn -- is ready for prime time.

Nah, I still think the organization needs to go slow with him.

I asked coach Lawrence Frank about juggling player development vs. winning.

"Your loyalty is to the team," Frank said. "It's never to one individual. Your loyalty is to try to find a way to win that game, whatever that takes.

"Unless your organization says, 'Hey, look, all we're doing is playing the young guys. It's not about winning, it's totally about these guys playing,' then that's one thing. If your goal is to try to win, then your loyalty is to winning and whatever it takes."
That's Frank's way of saying he owes it to the entire locker room to play who is playing best.

Fans look at Drummond's dominance against the Warriors and say he is ready for major minutes.

But look at how he labored Saturday against Dallas -- one night after a lot of energy was expended battling the Grizzlies' physical frontline. The second game of the back-to-back took something out of Drummond. And it should. The kid is 19, and his body has to adjust to the rigors of the NBA.

Also, one of the guys in front of Drummond -- Jason Maxiell -- is playing the best basketball of his life. So how would it look in the locker room if Drummond started cutting into Maxiell's time? Sports should be a meritocracy.

"Just because you throw a guy out there for 30 minutes could be the worst thing you do for a guy, because it may reinforce all the wrong habits," Frank said. "If he's not doing what he should be doing and he's not giving the effort, he's not following your principles, he's not following the game plan and you're playing him, how can you look at your other guys in your locker room and say you're about the right things? You can't.

"You can both develop players and try to win. That's the name of the game."

Drummond is averaging 17.6 minutes per game, and the average jumps to 20.1 over his past 10 games. Drummond's minutes easily could rise to around 25 per game as soon as he gets more acclimated to the NBA (and he keeps playing like he did Wednesday). The minutes shouldn't come at Maxiell's expense automatically. Maybe shrink Charlie Villanueva's time on nights he doesn't make his first few shots.

But it's quite apparent that Drummond is ahead of schedule, and his play might force Frank to keep him on the floor.

"I think I'm ready for anything, but as of right now, I'm just trying to play some basketball and win some games," Drummond said.

Contact Vince Ellis: 313-222-6479 or [Only admins are allowed to see this link]. Follow him on Twitter @vincent_ellis56.

[Sparma]

Good post, Don. The Pistons play a brand of basketball that I don't find very watchable (in spite of watching!).

What I do enjoy watching:

Drummond jumping out of the gym going after the ball, playing with exuberance. So far, I don't even mind the positioning blunders he makes at times, because it's fun to project his development.

Monroe operating on offense, compensating for his limited athleticism with skill and smarts.

Knight when he's trying to become a point guard, just trying to project whether he can make it as a plus NBA point (btw, let me be the first to express the worry that we're going to overpay him on his second contract thinking he's just about to turn the corner, and that because he's such a smart guy and hard worker that he'll make it. Oh well, Conley's progression is always a comfort).

Singler running around, trying to add to spacing.

Prince used to be my favorite (with Sheed) with his heady play, but I confess to having trouble getting that 1st rounder from Dallas out of my mind as I watch him. He's playing well this year though.

Similarly, it's fun to watch Maxiell work so hard, dunking on folks, even though I think he should have been long gone.

Finally, I know I'd enjoy seeing what JJ, English, Middleton, and Kravtsov could do if they ever got in the game.

[STONES!]

Trade Prince, Max and CV while they are tradable! Get draft picks or younger in return. Or, trade those 3 for 1 major player's contract at the deadline.

[deusXango]

Trade Prince, Max and CV while they are tradable! Get draft picks or younger in return. Or, trade those 3 for 1 major player's contract at the deadline.

Whoever you is, you is on the mark! Wouldn't it be wonderful if Atlanta agreed to send us Josh Smith for those three? Lil' Larry would be forced into starting a frontline of Monroe, Drummond, and Smith, with Kravtsov moving into the rotation....Jerebko's back in the land of the living also.

[WTF]

From Vince Ellis Article

"Unless your organization says, 'Hey, look, all we're doing is playing the young guys. It's not about winning, it's totally about these guys playing,' then that's one thing. If your goal is to try to win, then your loyalty is to winning and whatever it takes."

It is clear that both Gores and Joe are under the illusion this team can make it to the playoff. Any notion of player development being the bigger priority just won't happen.

Hard to blame Frank for handling the youngster the way he has thus far, they are setting Frank up to fail becuase no matter how hard he tries it not going to happen. What does Gores expect to gain from having this team get slapped silly in the first round,

[cool breeze]

Good post, Don. The Pistons play a brand of basketball that I don't find very watchable (in spite of watching!).

What I do enjoy watching:

Drummond jumping out of the gym going after the ball, playing with exuberance. So far, I don't even mind the positioning blunders he makes at times, because it's fun to project his development.

Monroe operating on offense, compensating for his limited athleticism with skill and smarts.

Knight when he's trying to become a point guard, just trying to project whether he can make it as a plus NBA point (btw, let me be the first to express the worry that we're going to overpay him on his second contract thinking he's just about to turn the corner, and that because he's such a smart guy and hard worker that he'll make it. Oh well, Conley's progression is always a comfort).

Singler running around, trying to add to spacing.

Prince used to be my favorite (with Sheed) with his heady play, but I confess to having trouble getting that 1st rounder from Dallas out of my mind as I watch him. He's playing well this year though.

Similarly, it's fun to watch Maxiell work so hard, dunking on folks, even though I think he should have been long gone.

Finally, I know I'd enjoy seeing what JJ, English, Middleton, and Kravtsov could do if they ever got in the game.

Sparma I actually enjoy watching Prince play as he is the most consistant player on this team. He seems to be much faster and stronger than last season. I think he played with some serious pain for two seasons before this year. He would make a great addition to a team that is close to making the playoffs. Detroit is not one of those teams. We fans always want to see the young players hoping that they have something special that the current players in the rotation do not have. Of course the coach should play the best players available to win as many games as possible but some of us believe that a lot of politics is being played out by players like Maggette. I watch him play and I don't see a smart player who is athletic. Maggette is not a good defender in current times. So in reality is Frank playing the best players? I don't think Maggette can play defense as well as English right now. Frank believes the key to this team winning games is defense. Also, can Monroe play defense as well as any of the other big men including Jerebco or The Russian? So it is not all about defense when it comes to certain players. I watch Stuckey take time off on defense much of the time. The players are not all on the same page for sure. Is Charlie V a tough defender and does he make defense a priority. Charlie V is perhaps the worst big man to ever play defense in the NBA. This coach is lying to the fans and the players. He keeps preaching defense first but plays the worst defensive players on the team. Coach speaks with forked tongue. This team has zero chance of making the playoffs with the current rotations created by Larry Frank. That is a fact and the owner better get off the party circuit and pay attention because Joe Dumars is most likely still watching cartoons and eating popcorn instead of trying to improve this team. He must have been doing that before he drafted Darko and Rodney White, gave away Affalo and Budinger and traded Billups. If the Pistons are building through the draft then play the players they have recently drafted instead of bringing out the same of group of losers.

[merc]

Not sure if anyone expected this to be a playoff team this year... started to ponder where the team is today vs. what was expected from the start of the year...
Most folks figured it would be a brutal start on the west coast... Almost everyone expected to see a commitment to the youth while shipping out a vet or two... so in that regard it's been somewhat of a disappointment so far.
I was hoping to see Drummond get around 20 minutes... on target... maybe 30 by the end of the year if JMax or CV are moved... his play has exceeded expectations.... should be a great first year.

English (from my Alma mater) not playing is a bitter pill... but I'm remaining hopeful that this has more to do with improving someones trade stock vs how they like K.E.s game... if it's still like this after February the screws should be tightened on LF & Joe.

So the question is... on a scale of 1-10 how do you rate the progress so far... why?

[Oracle]

Not sure if anyone expected this to be a playoff team this year... started to ponder where the team is today vs. what was expected from the start of the year...
Most folks figured it would be a brutal start on the west coast... Almost everyone expected to see a commitment to the youth while shipping out a vet or two... so in that regard it's been somewhat of a disappointment so far.
I was hoping to see Drummond get around 20 minutes... on target... maybe 30 by the end of the year if JMax or CV are moved... his play has exceeded expectations.... should be a great first year.

English (from my Alma mater) not playing is a bitter pill... but I'm remaining hopeful that this has more to do with improving someones trade stock vs how they like K.E.s game... if it's still like this after February the screws should be tightened on LF & Joe.

So the question is... on a scale of 1-10 how do you rate the progress so far... why?

I rate the overall progress about a 7, however, you almost need to break it down into areas.

Coaching - 5, the jury is still out, but there are positives.

Player development - 9, this is ALL about Drummond. I agree with the go slow approach now that I've had time to think about it. Drummond was a BIG risk for a man that drafted Darko and lost an opportunity to get Cousins. Joe needed to hit at least a tripple here, and he wound up hitting a bases loaded home run(Grand Slam!). Also and honerable mention for Singler's development.

Management - ?, I can't read these guys! I don't know what Joe or Gores is thinking, and they aren't saying, so you can only judge them by inference. Unfortunately, I can't infer a damn thing right now!

[Oracle]

"This coach is lying to the fans and the players. He keeps preaching defense first but plays the worst defensive players on the team. Coach speaks with forked tongue. This team has zero chance of making the playoffs with the current rotations created by Larry Frank." - Don

Don, it's true that our chances of making the playoffs is slim, and unless there are a few trades, we NEED to miss the playoffs this year.

However, I don't think our defense is the problem!

Offense is our MAJOR problem by far!

We consistently get leads, a lot of the time large ones, but what consistently happens is that as soon as the other team cranks up the defense, our offense goes south!

If we had better offense we would at a minimum match their output, but more importantly, if you do that, they never build the confidence to beat you.

While Frank struggles when teams make runs decision wise, he also doesn't seem to have them prepared offensively to face a tougher defensive environment.

[Oracle]

"It is clear that both Gores and Joe are under the illusion this team can make it to the playoff. Any notion of player development being the bigger priority just won't happen.

Hard to blame Frank for handling the youngster the way he has thus far, they are setting Frank up to fail becuase no matter how hard he tries it not going to happen. What does Gores expect to gain from having this team get slapped silly in the first round," - Wise

Yeah, the order to win is coming from management, and I kind of agree right now. There's plenty of time to change that directive as the season progresses, but I think it's wise to first try to see what you can do!

[Oracle]

Hey Stones, I agree with DX!

Why not register? We'd love to hear more from you!

[Oracle]

Last night, the Rapper Fat Joe was the halftime act!

[Oracle]

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[Sparma]

Good point, Cool, about it being doubtful whether Frank really plays the best crew. I've heard rumors about lockerroom dynamics, and maybe that's what accounts for Maggette -- who appears to be a popular leader -- getting as much time as he does. Goodwill says that Maxiell's playing the best ball of his life, and I agree. Still, when Maxiell and CV (not to mention Monroe) are getting abused against the Bulls don't you really need to give Kravtsov a shot as well as Drummond the maximal minutes he's up to? Not even sure if Kravtsov was active last night, but he should have been because the debacle with offensive rebounds was entirely predictable. Even Jerebko might have given Boozer more of a battle than Maxiell could. Frank's stubbornness is unforgiveable when he has what appear to be superior options begging to be explored for interior D, boxing out, and limiting offensive rebounds, the very things that did us in last night, and not for the first time.

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