PBOY YOU'RE AN ASS

[WTF]

Xango, I can't disagree with the size issue you pointed out. You can't complain about defense but you have two big men on the pine not playing who are really good defense players. I did not like the Mad Max for Big Dre sub in the 4th qtr. D.Cousins went to work when he saw under-size Mad Max on him. Bad sub coach Frank!

I'm not letting go of J.J. in any type of trade situation! Sorry, can't do it! Too much heart, high basketball IQ and people love and respect him. J.J. is the type of guy who becomes the captain of the team.

[Sebastian]

Sissy. You in full panic MODE 5 games in. Calm Down! You not going to make it through all 82 Games homes.

This is A rebuilding project. It's not going to come together over night. Keep watching and give it some time.

Moose, B.Knight, Singlar, and English got some key playing time last night. These guys will learn how to win these type of games over time.

I like what the coaches said after the game. DEFENSE!! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! We have to become A defense first team! [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

This season players will show who belongs and who does not belong. We 5 games in and you can already see Signlar and English belong. You can also see that R.Stuckey does not belong.

The pictures will be clear by the time this season ends..

Phillip, Phillip, Phillip, you're pathologically incorrect; Singler and English do indeed belong, and have consistantly demonstrated their value to a legitimate rebuilding effort....however, big men belong on a defense first team as well. Where the hell is Drummond and Kravstov? Neither one of them deserves key playing time (winning or losing) in a legitimate, defense first, rebuilding team effort? The team happens to be losing now, so it makes more sense to play those dudes now, don't you think?

The longer Lil' Larry drags his feet bringing in the youngsters, all while there're vets stumbling around, making rookie mistakes, the more frustration fans will react with; I include myself in that number, and stand with Sissy on this! Frustration and aggitation is often mistaken for over-excitement, and excitement is not what's being expressed when we talk, Maxiell, Prince, and Stuckey. Give us the big boys, and let's see Monroe and Drummond together. Stop the ******** around.

You want defensive frontcourt play? Get Josh Smith here to "D" up with Drummond! Talk about a "no fly zone!" All of a sudden it's not important to talk about Monroe's lack of defensive proficiency, but how much of an offensive nightmare he is. I'm not talking to the "doom and gloomers," but those fans that want to see this team turn around and be competitive, sooner, rather than later. If it took 3-4 teams involvement to make it possible, get it done. Chances are we'll end up without the players we don't want or need (stranger things have happened in the NBA). A team with Josh Smith, and without Prince, Maxiell, Stuckey, Daye, Bynum, and possibly J.J. (as much as I'd hate that), is a much better team!

PG-Knight/???

SG-Middleton/English/Maggette

SF-Smith/Singler/??

PF-Drummond/J.J.

C-Monroe/Kravstov

I threw that out there because I know how much you and Sebastian like dream lineups, and that's my dream team for Laimbeer to come in and coach.

DX, just curious are you proposing that WE acquire Josh Smith via Free Agency or via a trade. If you are considering a trade, what do you think would fetch US the services of J-Smoove, since WE all like to dream.

[Sissy1946]

[quote="Phil1980boy"]Sissy. You in full panic MODE 5 games in. Calm Down! You not going to make it through all 82 Games homes.

This is A rebuilding project. It's not going to come together over night. Keep watching and give it some time.

Moose, B.Knight, Singlar, and English got some key playing time last night. These guys will learn how to win these type of games over time.

I like what the coaches said after the game. DEFENSE!! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! We have to become A defense first team!

This season players will show who belongs and who does not belong. We are 5 games in and you can already see Singler and English belong. You can also see that R.Stuckey does not belong.


Sissy1946 Wrote:
Phil: No one is expecting them to get better overnight but the only improvement I see is that Singler is getting more playing time which is well deserved, let's put him in the starting line up, Prince & Rodney would be better served to come off the bench at this time. Frank is to slow to react to this, almost had high hopes for him last night & thought he would at least start Singler but remembering how the fab manager of the Tigers reacted when the forum members drop a hint or two, it takes him a month & a half to react to it even though it's for the betterment of the team.
I probably won't make it through the rest of the season & that's a given but when you see our coach taking to long to respond to making a few moves then it gets ridiculous, this should have been dealt with in pre-season, you know that as well as anybody. Another thing Frank hasn't done is work Monroe & Drummond together for the sake of the future or even play Kravtsov, oh we have plenty of time some say, well how about right now, a lot of the guys in the draft are already starting, Drummond can learn on the run just like the rest of them & that will get Maxiell out of the starting line up, it just makes me cringe to see Prince, Maxi-Pad's & Stuckey in that starting line up, look what the Lakers did to them, they usually start to slow, I'm tired of waiting for this team especially waiting on Frank when he already could have made a couple of decisions by now, just watch he'll wait when they return 0-7, he'll be in a deeper hole by then & when they play OKC on their return they'll be 0-8 & the Philly game after that will bring them to 0-9, & you & a few will still be saying we're in a panic mode, well that's not flying around here, if you need to make a move then make it now because it's obvious what he's doing now is not working. Frank has been preaching defense even before the season, have you seen any? Well neither have I & I guarantee you another thing, he'll be preaching defense the last game of the season too because whatever the hell he's preaching isn't getting across to this team, kudo's for him giving Singler more time but that's it, when he moves Maxiell, Prince & Stuckey out of the starting line up is where you'll start to see improvement, anything less than that & that's what I call an effort from him will not work, in fact he's got one goal in mind & that's to stay away from his record setting 16 losses in a row, this for him is very attainable this year, coming to a theatre near you as it's featured in the coming Piston attractions. Hey, we're all Piston fans & want them to do better & we all have our ways to fix the team, I'm happy with mine just like everybody else is & know that if he'd follow my plan we could still make the play offs, & you noticed their was some HOPE involved but if you have the attitude of just thinking its a rebuilding team then theirs not much nope for us this year & to me that's a waste. DeusXango: Frustration, Aggitation, oh yeah! Am tired of that, I want something to believe in & Frank with his line up makes me want to barf, you'd think he'd have a plan B, C, what's it going to take to get him fired if he's still going to run this line up out there? Like your line up too.

[Sissy1946]

"Phillip, Phillip, Phillip, you're pathologically incorrect"; DX good one

PBoy changes with the wind, but what he does do consistently is go alone with the organization program rather it right or wrong. Sure he's on this Stuckey must go crap today, but I recall the days when he thought keeping Stuckey on CB was a great idea, then it was Stuckey over Rip, and then Stuckey over Gordon, now he wants Stuckey gone all together

I'm not understanding those that think it's okay that Drummond and Singler don't either start or get the bulk of PT. I swear how in the fuck you're rebuilding with Prince and Maxiell playing 35 minutes. How in the fuck are you developing Drummond when he plays fucking 6 minutes?

Some of you are such suckers, had the team won last night many of you would have cheered and dance forgetting that rebuild is a complete farce. Lil Larry is trying to win games by any means neccessary because theyknow some fans are fooled by meaningless wins.

Sweet Response Wisefan, him & English too, how about a .30 spot for Kratsov while we're at it 'Lil Larry? But no we have to bust 34 minutes on Maxi-Pad's, really who decided that for him? How many would love to see some of these kids start & fall on their ass & then get up & say: "Is that all You've Got", Well that ain't Shit, give me some more of that ass whipping, bet ya the starters Prince, Maxiell & Rodney don't have that kind of IQ, here says Frank, you guys take this starting position & we'll let the kids take it from you. Well they have Frank, when do you let them have the reign's?

[Sissy1946]

So among Eastern Conference centers, Monroe is 2nd in scoring behind Bosh. He's 4th in rebounds behind Varejao, Haywood and Noah. And he of course leads all EC centers in assists.

Unfortunately, Moose is 14th among EC centers in blocked shots.

So with Hibbert hurt, I could definitely envision Bosh, Noah and Monroe as the 3 Eastern Conference All Star centers this year, especially if the Pistons can right the ship and win a few games.


Other positives: Brandon Knight has increased his assists this year to 6.6 apg. That's up from only 3.8 apg last year. So Knight is definitely making huge progress as far as getting his teammates more involved this year. Unfortunately, Knight still turns the ball over way too much. But he's slowly making strides toward developing into a more complete PG.

Jason Maxiell is having one of the best years of his career so far. So far, he's putting up career highs ppg, rpg, mpg and FG%. (He hasn't played this well since his last contract year. )

And Jonas Jerebko is quietly enjoying the best season of his career so far. And the fact that opposing players are getting thrown out of games because they're beating up on JJ is a sure sign that he's playing well and getting under the skin of opposing players. Let's hope JJ can stay healthy.

And finally, Will Bynum is playing very well. Like JMax, Bynum's having his best year since his last contract year.

So there's hope Pistons fans. Let's hope the Pistons can turn it around, after they make it through this brutal part of the schedule.

The only thing I will add is that players like Max and Bynum will have good stats but they harm the team overall with their lack of passing and team defense .. They just seem to destroy any continuity in any offense .. but very good points otherwise .. BIG MOOSE is ON THE LOOSE .. May Drummond join him soon ..

Grizz2: Just got off the phone from Smokey Robinson: He said your "Thumb's Up" Idea was Pretty Awesome & he wanted me to tell you that: He said tell Grizz2 that: " I Second that Emotion". Also told me that before I get married again I'd better "Shop Around". Ha!

[Sissy1946]

Where did the Chicken Lady go? What a Smooth Move whoever did it.

[deusXango]

Sebastian, my dream is that (with 3-4 teams involved) we can trade Prince, Maxiell, and Stuckey, while they have trade value, along with the expiring contracts of Daye and Bynum...if really pressed, I'd reluctantly part with J.J. or Maggette's expiring contract, but I'd have to recieve a promising PG in addition to Josh Smith from somewhere. I wouldn't be giving up any draft picks, or any of our young untried talent; now that I think on it, I wouldn't be giving up J.J. either!

I think with what we could put on the table would be sufficient to bring J-Smoove here, leave us financially sound, and remove all excuses for not playing our youth. In two seasons we've got a team of seasoned veterans (not no talent, grizzled vets), who are elite contenders for a championship. It's gonna take steady development, good health, team chemistry, and quality coaching, but we'd get there with the fiercest, frontline in the NBA. If we wait for the FA signing period, we waste precious time. Gores loses money from dwindling interest/attendance, and we're replacing more than a frontline player; we're replacing an administration also (Gores would be crazy to hold on to Fat Joe and Lil' Larry, should this season end up where it seems to be heading).

[deusXango]

If Lil' Larry was not only a man of his word, but an innovator as well, by now the rotation would look something like this:

STARTERS

PG-Knight (lottery pick)

SG-Middleton (1st second rounder 2012)

SF-Singler (1st second rounder 2011)

PF/C-Drummond (lottery pick)

C/PF-Monroe (lottery pick)

Guards off the bench: Stuckey and English

Point Forward: Prince (most game situations I'd play J.J. as SF)

PF: Jerebko and Maxiell

Center: Kravtsov

Villanueva, Prince, Bynum, and Daye would sit and wave towels (Maxiell would have marching orders to keep Maggette busted up in practices, and on IR, if he wanted to keep playing in the rotation).

Grow a pair, Lil' Larry! Give the kids a break, and do something for your career; stop living in negative fear, like you know the worst is gonna happen.

[Sebastian]

Sebastian, my dream is that (with 3-4 teams involved) we can trade Prince, Maxiell, and Stuckey, while they have trade value, along with the expiring contracts of Daye and Bynum...if really pressed, I'd reluctantly part with J.J. or Maggette's expiring contract, but I'd have to recieve a promising PG in addition to Josh Smith from somewhere. I wouldn't be giving up any draft picks, or any of our young untried talent; now that I think on it, I wouldn't be giving up J.J. either!

I think with what we could put on the table would be sufficient to bring J-Smoove here, leave us financially sound, and remove all excuses for not playing our youth. In two seasons we've got a team of seasoned veterans (not no talent, grizzled vets), who are elite contenders for a championship. It's gonna take steady development, good health, team chemistry, and quality coaching, but we'd get there with the fiercest, frontline in the NBA. If we wait for the FA signing period, we waste precious time. Gores loses money from dwindling interest/attendance, and we're replacing more than a frontline player; we're replacing an administration also (Gores would be crazy to hold on to Fat Joe and Lil' Larry, should this season end up where it seems to be heading).

DX, I'm with you 100%. There is no need to wait, until Free Agent signings to attempt to remodel OUR squad. No Free Agent worth his salt will sign with the Pistons. It is better that WE attempt to acquire a player, like J-Smoove with the intentions of signing him long term.

Besides, I don't trust Joe to spend the cap-space, responsibly.

[Murph]

With one NBA Championship and one All Star appearance, Memo calls it a career.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[lemonpen]

The level of performance between a frontline and backup player in this league is considerable. As soon as our kids prove they can manhandle (not simply hang with) 80% of the opposing benches we face I will be all for
a) migrating them into starting roles, or
b) playing them extended minutes including crunch time.

20 games into the season someone ought to be standing out on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact our comments are beginning to indicate who the front runners may be.

It isn’t only our bench needing 20 games to figure stuff out. Like it or not Monroe and Knight’s names are chiseled in granite as our main components going forward and as such are going to get all types of leeway to get their shiznit together. It will be better for everyone if those two get it going and are on the same page as the coach before introducing new faces into the starting unit.

After watching AD fail to remotely challenge JaVale McGee I gotta admit that maybe just maybe the kid has some learning to do in order to catch up with his bench brethren. It pained me to see AD back up when McGee ran in from the 3pt line for a dunk. Dre' might need a dose of gumption. Or at least a big gulp of get pissed.

[Grizz2]

The level of performance between a frontline and backup player in this league is considerable. As soon as our kids prove they can manhandle (not simply hang with) 80% of the opposing benches we face I will be all for
a) migrating them into starting roles, or
b) playing them extended minutes including crunch time.

20 games into the season someone ought to be standing out on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact our comments are beginning to indicate who the front runners may be.

It isn’t only our bench needing 20 games to figure stuff out. Like it or not Monroe and Knight’s names are chiseled in granite as our main components going forward and as such are going to get all types of leeway to get their shiznit together. It will be better for everyone if those two get it going and are on the same page as the coach before introducing new faces into the starting unit.

After watching AD fail to remotely challenge JaVale McGee I gotta admit that maybe just maybe the kid has some learning to do in order to catch up with his bench brethren. It pained me to see AD back up when McGee ran in from the 3pt line for a dunk. Dre' might need a dose of gumption. Or at least a big gulp of get pissed.

And when Monore or Knight have a bad game did we or should we keep them on the bench? .. The NBA game is about toughness and talent .. He wont learn about toughness if the head coach plays I-WILL-PUNISH-YOU-WITH-BENCH-TIME games if he makes mistakes .. He wont develop his talent either .. Drummond HAS TO BE IN THE MIX .. 20 to 30 minutes each game this season .. EVEN IF HE GETS OUT-PLAYED AT TIMES ... Then it is the head coach's ROLE to help him improve and fix what needs to be fixed ... 1 game where Drummond got beat up a bit should not be the time to lose your nerve or common sense .. The only thing the bench does for Drummond is LOWER how good he will be .. It is literally stupid and destructive to his career .. Would rather lose 10 more games this year because we played Drummond 30 minutes a game and reached full potential of his fairly awesome talent .. If Frank cannot get Drummond real playing time, .. then he should be replaced with a head coach who will .. We have wasted enough talent in Piston land over the past 10 years doncha think?

[Grizz2]

If Lil' Larry was not only a man of his word, but an innovator as well, by now the rotation would look something like this:

STARTERS

PG-Knight (lottery pick)

SG-Middleton (1st second rounder 2012)

SF-Singler (1st second rounder 2011)

PF/C-Drummond (lottery pick)

C/PF-Monroe (lottery pick)

Guards off the bench: Stuckey and English

Point Forward: Prince (most game situations I'd play J.J. as SF)

PF: Jerebko and Maxiell

Center: Kravtsov

Villanueva, Prince, Bynum, and Daye would sit and wave towels (Maxiell would have marching orders to keep Maggette busted up in practices, and on IR, if he wanted to keep playing in the rotation).

Grow a pair, Lil' Larry! Give the kids a break, and do something for your career; stop living in negative fear, like you know the worst is gonna happen.

[Grizz2]

[quote="Sissy1946"]

Sissy. You in full panic MODE 5 games in. Calm Down! You not going to make it through all 82 Games homes.

This is A rebuilding project. It's not going to come together over night. Keep watching and give it some time.

Moose, B.Knight, Singlar, and English got some key playing time last night. These guys will learn how to win these type of games over time.

I like what the coaches said after the game. DEFENSE!! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! We have to become A defense first team!

This season players will show who belongs and who does not belong. We are 5 games in and you can already see Singler and English belong. You can also see that R.Stuckey does not belong.
Phil:
No one is expecting them to get better overnight but the only improvement I see is that Singler is getting more playing time which is well deserved, let's put him in the starting line up, Prince & Rodney would be better served to come off the bench at this time. Frank is to slow to react to this, almost had high hopes for him last night & thought he would at least start Singler but remembering how the fab manager of the Tigers reacted when the forum members drop a hint or two, it takes him a month & a half to react to it even though it's for the betterment of the team.
I probably won't make it through the rest of the season & that's a given but when you see our coach taking to long to respond to making a few moves then it gets ridiculous, this should have been dealt with in pre-season, you know that as well as anybody. Another thing Frank hasn't done is work Monroe & Drummond together for the sake of the future or even play Kravtsov, oh we have plenty of time some say, well how about right now, a lot of the guys in the draft are already starting, Drummond can learn on the run just like the rest of them & that will get Maxiell out of the starting line up, it just makes me cringe to see Prince, Maxi-Pad's & Stuckey in that starting line up, look what the Lakers did to them, they usually start to slow, I'm tired of waiting for this team especially waiting on Frank when he already could have made a couple of decisions by now, just watch he'll wait when they return 0-7, he'll be in a deeper hole by then & when they play OKC on their return they'll be 0-8 & the Philly game after that will bring them to 0-9, & you & a few will still be saying we're in a panic mode, well that's not flying around here, if you need to make a move then make it now because it's obvious what he's doing now is not working. Frank has been preaching defense even before the season, have you seen any? Well neither have I & I guarantee you another thing, he'll be preaching defense the last game of the season too because whatever the hell he's preaching isn't getting across to this team, kudo's for him giving Singler more time but that's it, when he moves Maxiell, Prince & Stuckey out of the starting line up is where you'll start to see improvement, anything less than that & that's what I call an effort from him will not work, in fact he's got one goal in mind & that's to stay away from his record setting 16 losses in a row, this for him is very attainable this year, coming to a theatre near you as it's featured in the coming Piston attractions. Hey, we're all Piston fans & want them to do better & we all have our ways to fix the team, I'm happy with mine just like everybody else is & know that if he'd follow my plan we could still make the play offs, & you noticed their was some HOPE involved but if you have the attitude of just thinking its a rebuilding team then theirs not much nope for us this year & to me that's a waste. DeusXango: Frustration, Aggitation, oh yeah! Am tired of that, I want something to believe in & Frank with his line up makes me want to barf, you'd think he'd have a plan B, C, what's it going to take to get him fired if he's still going to run this line up out there? Like your line up too.

.. a dozen thumbs up.... all you say is right on !!!!! DETROIT BASEKTBALL DAMN IT!!!!!!!!

[Fennis Dembo]

Biff Burns: You are having a lot of trouble shooting only 17.4% in five games. Do you have any idea why?
Rodney Stuckey: I think it was that nasty kid from USC getting to our game balls and letting the air out of them.

Biff Burns: Yes, that can be very deflating for a shooter such as yourself.
Rodney Stuckey: Damn straight!

Biff Burns: Unfortunately that’s not the way your shots have gone.
Rodney Stuckey: Go away! I don’t like you. Don’t give a player a hard time when he’s down, man. Show some compassion. Keep hope alive.


Jonas Jerebko enters the locker room with one eye swollen shut clutching his throat.
Biff Burns: You look like you just got whipped with an ugly stick.

Jonas Jerebko: It was a rough night out there. I got punched in the eye and elbowed in the throat.
Biff Burns: I thought basketball was supposed to be a non contact sport.
Jonas Jerebko: And if your Aunt Suzie had testicles she’d be your Uncle Herbie.
Biff Burns: That’s a crude but concise way to put it.

Biff Burns: Charlie V took boxing lessons this past summer, too bad he wasn’t out there to defend you.
Jonas Jerebko: He was fast asleep on the bench. They could hear him snoring all the way in the cheap seats up in the rafters.

Biff Burns: Thomas Robinson was kicked out of the game for the vicious elbow to your neck. He should be suspended and fined.
Jonas Jerebko: In my country of Sweden he would be severely punished.

Biff Burns: What would happen?
Jonas Jerebko: He would be dragged through the frozen tundra by a reindeer and then left for the wolves to feast upon.

Biff Burns: That’s a bit harsh.
Jonas Jerebko: That’s what we Nordic people call the code of the Vikings.

Biff Burns: Our northern people, Alaskan Eskimos, are much more hospitable. They’d invite you into their igloo for some blubber tasting and rub noses with you. Of course if you cross them they might send you out to die on an ice flow, where you might become an hors d'oeuvres for a polar bear.
Jonas Jerebko: See, people are people anywhere you go.

Biff Burns: Speaking of people in trouble, how about the Lakers’ coach Mike Brown?
Jonas Jerebko: If there are any reindeer, wolves, or ice flows near LA he’s in big trouble.
Biff Burns: Unfortunately for him the Lakers only play the Pistons one more time. Adios Mikey B.
Jonas Jerebko: No Valhalla for him.

Biff Burns: Well fans it’s off to Oklahoma City, land of the Dust Bowl, Broadway musicals about cowboys, tornadoes, a very good Thunder team, and one super player, Kevin Durant.

[lemonpen]

The level of performance between a frontline and backup player in this league is considerable. As soon as our kids prove they can manhandle (not simply hang with) 80% of the opposing benches we face I will be all for
a) migrating them into starting roles, or
b) playing them extended minutes including crunch time.

20 games into the season someone ought to be standing out on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact our comments are beginning to indicate who the front runners may be.

It isn’t only our bench needing 20 games to figure stuff out. Like it or not Monroe and Knight’s names are chiseled in granite as our main components going forward and as such are going to get all types of leeway to get their shiznit together. It will be better for everyone if those two get it going and are on the same page as the coach before introducing new faces into the starting unit.

After watching AD fail to remotely challenge JaVale McGee I gotta admit that maybe just maybe the kid has some learning to do in order to catch up with his bench brethren. It pained me to see AD back up when McGee ran in from the 3pt line for a dunk. Dre' might need a dose of gumption. Or at least a big gulp of get pissed.

And when Monore or Knight have a bad game did we or should we keep them on the bench? .. The NBA game is about toughness and talent .. He wont learn about toughness if the head coach plays I-WILL-PUNISH-YOU-WITH-BENCH-TIME games if he makes mistakes .. He wont develop his talent either .. Drummond HAS TO BE IN THE MIX .. 20 to 30 minutes each game this season .. EVEN IF HE GETS OUT-PLAYED AT TIMES ... Then it is the head coach's ROLE to help him improve and fix what needs to be fixed ... 1 game where Drummond got beat up a bit should not be the time to lose your nerve or common sense .. The only thing the bench does for Drummond is LOWER how good he will be .. It is literally stupid and destructive to his career .. Would rather lose 10 more games this year because we played Drummond 30 minutes a game and reached full potential of his fairly awesome talent .. If Frank cannot get Drummond real playing time, .. then he should be replaced with a head coach who will .. We have wasted enough talent in Piston land over the past 10 years doncha think?

Didn't say bury him on the bench. Just said he ain't ready for prime time yet. Build him up a piece at a time whether it requires 20 or 80 games. Toughness that you speak of is a byproduct of confidence and success. Allowing the league to PUNISH AD for every mistake won't build any of that. Make no mistake starters will eat him alive in the most embarassing fashion conceivable. In addition to games lost I suppose you also wish to risk losing every other player that starts with AD for having to carry the stench of lookinig bad on ESPN despite busting their azzes nightly.

[cool breeze]

What about that Piston fans? What if Prince is holding a Piston history class in the locker room and the players were informed about what happened to Piston players who did play tough defense while Joe Dumars has been President. I can see using game film of Affalo showing with a pointer what Joe does not want his players to do. The players are confused and that is why. It is time for Joe Dumars to speak to his players and let them know what he expects of them. Maybe Joe's plan for success is no longer based on listening to Anthony Robbins tapes and watching practice film on Maxiell working on his mid range jumper while Charlie V feeds him the ball. Does Dumars now really care about defense? Does Dumars believe that Daye should be starting at power forward? We sure won't know unless Joe tells us.

Who is going to get fired if the Pistons drop the first 13 games? Who will get fired if Detroit goes to a 2 - 15 record? Tell me there is not pressure right now. Mr. Gores is really fuming over the Piston effort in that game at the LA Lakers. He was sitting court side. At that level Mr. Gores had to see how badly Maxiell looked against Gasol and the rest of the big guys for the Lakers. I would love to be a fly on the wall when Gores sits down with Frank and Dumars next time. Now just maybe Frank has his own plan of survival. He could be playing Maxiell, Prince and Stuckey for extended minutes to show management that the team cannot win with that starting lineup. Most likely Frank has been provided with instructions to play that group by Mr Dumars.

[Grizz2]

The level of performance between a frontline and backup player in this league is considerable. As soon as our kids prove they can manhandle (not simply hang with) 80% of the opposing benches we face I will be all for
a) migrating them into starting roles, or
b) playing them extended minutes including crunch time.

20 games into the season someone ought to be standing out on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact our comments are beginning to indicate who the front runners may be.

It isn’t only our bench needing 20 games to figure stuff out. Like it or not Monroe and Knight’s names are chiseled in granite as our main components going forward and as such are going to get all types of leeway to get their shiznit together. It will be better for everyone if those two get it going and are on the same page as the coach before introducing new faces into the starting unit.

After watching AD fail to remotely challenge JaVale McGee I gotta admit that maybe just maybe the kid has some learning to do in order to catch up with his bench brethren. It pained me to see AD back up when McGee ran in from the 3pt line for a dunk. Dre' might need a dose of gumption. Or at least a big gulp of get pissed.

And when Monore or Knight have a bad game did we or should we keep them on the bench? .. The NBA game is about toughness and talent .. He wont learn about toughness if the head coach plays I-WILL-PUNISH-YOU-WITH-BENCH-TIME games if he makes mistakes .. He wont develop his talent either .. Drummond HAS TO BE IN THE MIX .. 20 to 30 minutes each game this season .. EVEN IF HE GETS OUT-PLAYED AT TIMES ... Then it is the head coach's ROLE to help him improve and fix what needs to be fixed ... 1 game where Drummond got beat up a bit should not be the time to lose your nerve or common sense .. The only thing the bench does for Drummond is LOWER how good he will be .. It is literally stupid and destructive to his career .. Would rather lose 10 more games this year because we played Drummond 30 minutes a game and reached full potential of his fairly awesome talent .. If Frank cannot get Drummond real playing time, .. then he should be replaced with a head coach who will .. We have wasted enough talent in Piston land over the past 10 years doncha think?

Didn't say bury him on the bench. Just said he ain't ready for prime time yet. Build him up a piece at a time whether it requires 20 or 80 games. Toughness that you speak of is a byproduct of confidence and success. Allowing the league to PUNISH AD for every mistake won't build any of that. Make no mistake starters will eat him alive in the most embarassing fashion conceivable. In addition to games lost I suppose you also wish to risk losing every other player that starts with AD for having to carry the stench of lookinig bad on ESPN despite busting their azzes nightly.

Lemon .. So someone dunked on Drummond? Come on .... Stop giving up .. Drummond needs to be in the heat of battle and go for it .. And Little Larry's career depends on him getting Drummond up to speed ... We are getting punished now big time by guards who figure there is no one protecting the rim right now .. This is not about wins and losses anymore .... development first and foremost" peace out!

[Sissy1946]

[quote="Sissy1946"]

Sissy. You in full panic MODE 5 games in. Calm Down! You not going to make it through all 82 Games homes.

This is A rebuilding project. It's not going to come together over night. Keep watching and give it some time.

Moose, B.Knight, Singlar, and English got some key playing time last night. These guys will learn how to win these type of games over time.

I like what the coaches said after the game. DEFENSE!! DEFENSE! DEFENSE! We have to become A defense first team!

This season players will show who belongs and who does not belong. We are 5 games in and you can already see Singler and English belong. You can also see that R.Stuckey does not belong.


Sissy1946 Wrote:
Phil: No one is expecting them to get better overnight but the only improvement I see is that Singler is getting more playing time which is well deserved, let's put him in the starting line up, Prince & Rodney would be better served to come off the bench at this time. Frank is to slow to react to this, almost had high hopes for him last night & thought he would at least start Singler but remembering how the fab manager of the Tigers reacted when the forum members drop a hint or two, it takes him a month & a half to react to it even though it's for the betterment of the team.
I probably won't make it through the rest of the season & that's a given but when you see our coach taking to long to respond to making a few moves then it gets ridiculous, this should have been dealt with in pre-season, you know that as well as anybody. Another thing Frank hasn't done is work Monroe & Drummond together for the sake of the future or even play Kravtsov, oh we have plenty of time some say, well how about right now, a lot of the guys in the draft are already starting, Drummond can learn on the run just like the rest of them & that will get Maxiell out of the starting line up, it just makes me cringe to see Prince, Maxi-Pad's & Stuckey in that starting line up, look what the Lakers did to them, they usually start to slow, I'm tired of waiting for this team especially waiting on Frank when he already could have made a couple of decisions by now, just watch he'll wait when they return 0-7, he'll be in a deeper hole by then & when they play OKC on their return they'll be 0-8 & the Philly game after that will bring them to 0-9, & you & a few will still be saying we're in a panic mode, well that's not flying around here, if you need to make a move then make it now because it's obvious what he's doing now is not working. Frank has been preaching defense even before the season, have you seen any? Well neither have I & I guarantee you another thing, he'll be preaching defense the last game of the season too because whatever the hell he's preaching isn't getting across to this team, kudo's for him giving Singler more time but that's it, when he moves Maxiell, Prince & Stuckey out of the starting line up is where you'll start to see improvement, anything less than that & that's what I call an effort from him will not work, in fact he's got one goal in mind & that's to stay away from his record setting 16 losses in a row, this for him is very attainable this year, coming to a theatre near you as it's featured in the coming Piston attractions. Hey, we're all Piston fans & want them to do better & we all have our ways to fix the team, I'm happy with mine just like everybody else is & know that if he'd follow my plan we could still make the play offs, & you noticed their was some HOPE involved but if you have the attitude of just thinking its a rebuilding team then theirs not much nope for us this year & to me that's a waste. DeusXango: Frustration, Aggitation, oh yeah! Am tired of that, I want something to believe in & Frank with his line up makes me want to barf, you'd think he'd have a plan B, C, what's it going to take to get him fired if he's still going to run this line up out there? Like your line up too.

[Sparma2]

As a longtime Joe fan, I've nevertheless become disillusioned with his recent performance. In baseball, the notion of wins about a replacement level player is used. How would Joe fare with respect to wins above a replacement GM [WAG]? Langlois points to hitting on three straight lottery picks. Indeed, but Joe gets few if any WAG points for drafting Monroe, Knight, and Drummond. I do give him points for some solid second round picks (Jerebko, Singler, English), even though the replacement level GM would occasionally pick a good second rounders. Maybe he gets some points for a reasonable Stuckey contract. On the other side, I subtract massive points for the Gordon trade (although the final tally lies in the future). Further points off for the length of the Prince contract. Going back in time, we find the lousy Gordon and Charlie V signings, a series of bad contracts, with Rip's as the worst, and the trading of Afflalo. Of course, all GMs will make some bad moves, but it looks to me like Joe's been performing below replacement level for years.

His incredible early performance wins him a big cushion, but I need to see some significant moves beyond replacement soon to support his staying.

[WTF]

As a longtime Joe fan, I've nevertheless become disillusioned with his recent performance. In baseball, the notion of wins about a replacement level player is used. How would Joe fare with respect to wins above a replacement GM [WAG]? Langlois points to hitting on three straight lottery picks. Indeed, but Joe gets few if any WAG points for drafting Monroe, Knight, and Drummond. I do give him points for some solid second round picks (Jerebko, Singler, English), even though the replacement level GM would occasionally pick a good second rounders. Maybe he gets some points for a reasonable Stuckey contract. On the other side, I subtract massive points for the Gordon trade (although the final tally lies in the future). Further points off for the length of the Prince contract. Going back in time, we find the lousy Gordon and Charlie V signings, a series of bad contracts, with Rip's as the worst, and the trading of Afflalo. Of course, all GMs will make some bad moves, but it looks to me like Joe's been performing below replacement level for years.

His incredible early performance wins him a big cushion, but I need to see some significant moves beyond replacement soon to support his staying.

Sparma I've been screaming this very sentiment since 2006 a lot of these dumb moves you could see coming becuase of his inability to improve on the team he had then. How do you screw up a potential dynasty? Just Ask Joe he certainly knows.

You can't give Joe any points on players he never intended on drafting, that accidentally felled in his lap. They weren't even invited for workouts.

[Oracle]

@Sparma - WAG, SMAG, none of that counts for anything in my book unless that's all you've got, and you can't measure anything meanigful!

You want to measure a GM's effectiveness? Try measuring what the sport defines! How many divisional championships do they have? How many conference apperances/championships do they have? How many finals apperances/championships do they have?

IMO, those are the REAL measures, everything else is nipping at the edges!

@lemonpen - Wow, you're a tough customer, and not fair about it either. If Drummond doesn't get his arse kicked, I don't think he'll ever learn a thing at this level. Maybe they should have kicked Dwight Howard out of the league after the way Sheed punked him on a regular basis!

Look, I partially agree with you, but there is a fine line between letting the rookie get his chops busted, while leaving enough room that it doesn't completely destroy his confidence.

McGee is way too experienced and athletic for Drummond to have a good chance of competing with him for long. That's fine, but he does need to see McGee and take a butt whooping a bit to learn how to handle guys like him.

So while you have a point, IMO, you probably want to modify it a bit to fit the situation(or not, lol).

[deusXango]

His incredible early performance wins him a big cushion, but I need to see some significant moves beyond replacement soon to support his staying.

Sparma, all the cotton has been pulled out of that cushion.

Lemon, don't be so hard on Drummond, based on McGee flying down the lane with a full head of steam, and Drummond giving him the right of way; you got any idea what that looks like in real life, in real time? I'm giving Drummond points for displaying a sound Bball I.Q.

[Grizz43]

Lemon .. like Oracle says you do have a point about why Frank may be hesitant about using Drummond .. he is going to get beat and beat bad at times and it could lose the game? So what you say JUST EXPLAINS how Frank looks at it .. AND YOU ARE NO doubt right at how Frank looks at it .. Dont want to shoot the messenger on this .. All I want to say to Frank is: (1) we are going to lose if we dont use Drummond anyway .. (2) Over time .. Drummond will improve a lot faster being thrown into games with support and with mentoring every daya and every game ..It is even possible that a herky jerky lack of playing time approach will severely hamper Drummonds career .. See Aaron Afflalo as an example of someone who was held back for no good reason .. and prospered elsewhere

[Oracle]

His incredible early performance wins him a big cushion, but I need to see some significant moves beyond replacement soon to support his staying.

Sparma, all the cotton has been pulled out of that cushion.

That's a different question, and the answer will vary from individual to individual.

However, I'm in agreement with you, the Goodwill(pun intended) Joe has from those years is all but gone, he needs to produce NOW!

I think it was realistic based on last years performance to expect this team to contend for a playoff spot.

Once we got a whiff of the team this year, we quickly scaled back our expectations.

IMO, Joe is really on the hot seat, and that's why we may see activity on changes ASAP!

IMO, JMax could either stay or go, as long as he's coming off the bench, but after seeing Prince this year, he looks DONE to me, and he either needs to be moved or retired, he's hurting the team!

Either play Daye & CV, or move them! This silliness of night after night of DNPCD's is embarrassing for them and the organization, and exposes poor management(GM'ing).

Something needs to be done quickly, and I believe Joe will either do it or he's done!

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