Plugging for BK7 by the MSM Piston Machine ..

[Grizz2]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

... which for once I approve of ..

He does get caught flat footed sometimes .. and driven by .. but .. he certainly is working hard now.... I dont have a problem with Stuckey or Bynum taking over more of the PG duties though with the right coaching and complementary players ... BK7 CAN become a very good PG ...

[WTF]

That's were I'm at with this season. I haven't set a barometer as to where this team needs to me I'm just simply calling it as it is. Maybe this is why I'm so critcial of Knight and willing to trade Monroe for Cousins

I can't imagine being a GM on draft day selecting a player with a lottery pick solely on the idea that in maybe 3 or 4 years he could be special. Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope. I don't think I've would have ever drafted Knight with my lottery pick. Just Saying! GO BLUE! GO TREY BURKE!

I can't stand the **** that Joe does because he's always seem to be sitting somewhere in the middle. Not for the betterment of the team but to always protect his position and remove himself from blame of failure as he always done. IMO Joe like fans hanging on to the idea of potential this and potential that and he perfectly has setup another coach to take the fall for him. Gore wanted a playoff team this year and Joe has to be active in making the right trades to make that happen, but in doing so that put the focus on him. We all know his Fat Ass like to sit in the shadows and hide from public scrutinizing. If he does nothing then he can't be blamed for anything is his thinking. You all do know that Joe will be fired after this season, if not this only confirm what I said about Gores prior to the purchse of the team. He has no interest in this team winning and this is somehow just another Cash Cow he plan on milking

[FlyDog]

That's were I'm at with this season. I haven't set a barometer as to where this team needs to me I'm just simply calling it as it is. Maybe this is why I'm so critcial of Knight and willing to trade Monroe for Cousins

I can't imagine being a GM on draft day selecting a player with a lottery pick solely on the idea that in maybe 3 or 4 years he could be special. Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope. I don't think I've would have ever drafted Knight with my lottery pick. Just Saying! GO BLUE! GO TREY BURKE!

I can't stand the **** that Joe does because he's always seem to be sitting somewhere in the middle. Not for the betterment of the team but to always protect his position and remove himself from blame of failure as he always done. IMO Joe like fans hanging on to the idea of potential this and potential that and he perfectly has setup another coach to take the fall for him. Gore wanted a playoff team this year and Joe has to be active in making the right trades to make that happen, but in doing so that put the focus on him. We all know his Fat Ass like to sit in the shadows and hide from public scrutinizing. If he does nothing then he can't be blamed for anything is his thinking. You all do know that Joe will be fired after this season, if not this only confirm what I said about Gores prior to the purchse of the team. He has no interest in this team winning and this is somehow just another Cash Cow he plan on milking

Besides guys like Magic and Lebron, isn't drafting players pretty much all based on potential? Not many "Sure thing" type guys. Who would you have picked instead of Knight?

[WTF]

That's were I'm at with this season. I haven't set a barometer as to where this team needs to me I'm just simply calling it as it is. Maybe this is why I'm so critcial of Knight and willing to trade Monroe for Cousins

I can't imagine being a GM on draft day selecting a player with a lottery pick solely on the idea that in maybe 3 or 4 years he could be special. Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope. I don't think I've would have ever drafted Knight with my lottery pick. Just Saying! GO BLUE! GO TREY BURKE!

I can't stand the **** that Joe does because he's always seem to be sitting somewhere in the middle. Not for the betterment of the team but to always protect his position and remove himself from blame of failure as he always done. IMO Joe like fans hanging on to the idea of potential this and potential that and he perfectly has setup another coach to take the fall for him. Gore wanted a playoff team this year and Joe has to be active in making the right trades to make that happen, but in doing so that put the focus on him. We all know his Fat Ass like to sit in the shadows and hide from public scrutinizing. If he does nothing then he can't be blamed for anything is his thinking. You all do know that Joe will be fired after this season, if not this only confirm what I said about Gores prior to the purchse of the team. He has no interest in this team winning and this is somehow just another Cash Cow he plan on milking

Besides guys like Magic and Lebron, isn't drafting players pretty much all based on potential? Not many "Sure thing" type guys. Who would you have picked instead of Knight?

I was never all that Gun-Ho about selecting anyone with our lottery pick that year and thought we should have used it in some form of trade that would have landed us not only an immediate impact player but perhaps in addition a late 1st round pick or early second.

Initially I wasn't keen on any of the PG's Kyrie, Kemba, or Knight and thought we could get more bang in trading our pick and picking up Nolan Smith late in the draft. In hindsight that could have removed the future prospect of us landing Drummond as we did. Who's to say if Portland or Atlanta at the time of drafting Knight wouldn't have been willing to part with Josh Smith or Aldrige in exchange for our pick and where would we be with either one starting next to Monroe.

I'm not too disappointed because I'm totally sold on Drummond being a better version of Dwight Howard sooner than we all may be thinking. But I remain dis-enchanted as how far Knights potential will go, could be just another combo guard when all said in done.

A sure thing as far as future draft prospects goes I see a sure thing in UM Trey Burke. If you haven't had a chance to watch this kid Fly please do so (He smells like the next Zeke)

[WTF]

How does Michigan point guard Trey Burke compare to the Clippers' Chris Paul? ESPN

Sophomore point guard Trey Burke of the undefeated and third-ranked Michigan Wolverines is off to a tremendous start again this season and the more I watch him the more he reminds me in many ways of Chris Paul of the Los Angeles Clippers.

Burke, the No. 84 overall recruit in the Class of 2011, was a great scoring point guard for Satch Sullinger at Northland (Ohio) High School and for the All Ohio AAU Program. Burke also excelled off the ball because of his ability to score in a variety of ways.

But his point guard skills and feel for the game have reached an elite level since he started running the show for the Wolverines. Burke leads 8-0 Michigan in scoring (17.0 ppg) and assists (7.1) and has only 19 turnovers in 269 minutes of play.

Paul and Burke are both very smooth and efficient point guards that get teammates involved and have a great feel and excellent basketball IQ. Both are composed under pressure and attack under control, resulting in a high level of consistent production. They both take care of the ball and when they gamble, they usually come out ahead and make the defense pay. Defensively, they are both solid on and off the ball. They are alert and will slide over in help and take a momentum changing charge.

Let's take a look at the point guard tale of the tape between Paul and Burke:

Height/Weight: Paul is 6-foot/175, while Burke is 6-foot/190. Both are very similar athletically in terms of bounce and lateral foot speed and quickness.

Leadership: Paul is a great court communicator; there is no doubt who is in charge of the team when he is on the floor. Burke has become more vocal with teammates when I watch him in the huddle and after setting up a teammate. He leads more by example now so this is probably the category with the most difference, but his on-court communication has improved and will continue to do so as he matures and grows as a player. Even now, there is no doubt who has the other four players' undivided attention when Burke is running the show for the Wolverines.

Handle: Paul and Burke both have the ball on a string and can get to their sweet spot through contact. They push the pace on the break, probing the defense looking to make a play. They both run the offense to perfection and make the right decision in end-of-the-clock situations. They both attack with their head and eyes up surveying the floor and are great at keeping their dribble alive. Both can break intense ball pressure, change speeds and directions on a dime. Both can turn a broken play into a great play with their ballhandling escapability. Both can beat most single defenders off the bounce to score or get a teammate the ball in position to score at will.

Passing: Dropping dimes is an asset of both Paul and Burke. They get teammates involved and their passes result in scores because their passes are on time and on target whether on the break, within the offense or when the shot clock is running down. They also can deliver the ball with flare and get the crowd to their feet with a look away or drop-off pass for a dunk in heavy traffic.

Scoring and shooting: Both Paul and Burke are crafty finishers deep in the lane. This includes great floaters with touch and body control, mid-range jumpers off the catch or dribble and open 3s. Both are capable of big numbers when they want or when the team needs their scoring. Both are great at picking their spots and knowing when it is time to take over the game. - ESPN

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry.......

[WTF]

Burke and #2 Michigan are on now.

[merc]

Burke and #2 Michigan are on now.

What network... not seeing it anywhere?

[WTF]

Burke and #2 Michigan are on now.

What network... not seeing it anywhere?

Already 9pts 7ast 1stl and no TO's in the first half.

[WTF]

Just a freshmen but projected in the Top 15 draft this year, Michingan in fact has 3 players projected in the first round Robinson, Burke and Hardaway. Hope Robinson plays 1 more year he looks better than his dad (Big Dog)

[Oracle]

Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope.

One... only One post later...

A sure thing as far as future draft prospects goes I see a sure thing in UM Trey Burke. If you haven't had a chance to watch this kid Fly please do so (He smells like the next Zeke).

Then one more post later...

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry....... .

WOW!!!

[WTF]

Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope.

One... only One post later...

A sure thing as far as future draft prospects goes I see a sure thing in UM Trey Burke. If you haven't had a chance to watch this kid Fly please do so (He smells like the next Zeke).

Then one more post later...

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry....... .

WOW!!!

BTW Burke just put on another great performance 19pt and 12ast.

[merc]

How 'bout these matchups... Walker/ Knight... Biyombo/Drummond... Stuckey/BG

[FlyDog]

I've seen Burke play a couple times now. He looks like he has a lot of potential. By no means a sure thing star in the NBA..........imo.

[merc]

His comments on why the bench has been out playing the starters....
"Their floor spacing offensively is more open than ours is on the first unit," Prince said. "It has a lot to do with Charlie out there spreading the floor, Austin spreading the floor. And you got Andre running to the rim for lobs and stuff like that. Will has the opportunity to penetrate and make plays for Andre at the rim or our three-point shooters.

"Obviously, we're not as good three-point shooters as those guys are, and Greg (Monroe) and (Jason Maxiell) don't have the athletic ability Andre has ..."

So what happens if we change roles... bench starts?

[Oracle]

Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope.

One... only One post later...

A sure thing as far as future draft prospects goes I see a sure thing in UM Trey Burke. If you haven't had a chance to watch this kid Fly please do so (He smells like the next Zeke).

Then one more post later...

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry....... .

WOW!!!

BTW Burke just put on another great performance 19pt and 12ast.

No, you expressed a lot of opinions, and that's fine.

What you are doing wrong is the staggering contradictions you have between what you're allowed to do and what you complain about others doing.

You just did in back to back posting EXACTLY what you said was so sad about what others do...

1. Assuming potential is reality, and
2. Comparing a players potential to REAL performance by true stars

Even more disturbing is the fact that once pointed out, you didn't immediately notice it!

I'm not saying that all of us don't have times where we may contradict ourselves, that's human nature, but in back to back posts? That's rare and it stood out to me!

[Oracle]

I've seen Burke play a couple times now. He looks like he has a lot of potential. By no means a sure thing star in the NBA..........imo.

I'm with you Fly!

He does look good, and a lot of players look good in College, or they wouldn't get drafted!

Unfortunately, the percentage that succeed in the NBA is quite low, nothing is guaranteed(except Wise's excitement about his potential).

However, I do want to see Michigan in the final 4!!!

[Oracle]

His comments on why the bench has been out playing the starters....
"Their floor spacing offensively is more open than ours is on the first unit," Prince said. "It has a lot to do with Charlie out there spreading the floor, Austin spreading the floor. And you got Andre running to the rim for lobs and stuff like that. Will has the opportunity to penetrate and make plays for Andre at the rim or our three-point shooters.

"Obviously, we're not as good three-point shooters as those guys are, and Greg (Monroe) and (Jason Maxiell) don't have the athletic ability Andre has ..."

So what happens if we change roles... bench starts?

Merc, if nothing else, Tay speaks with surprising candor about the starting unit!

While they do have problems, they also are a unit that the rest of the league has mostly figured out.

To be fair, the 2nd unit has snuck up on teams who have never really seen them before, so we should expect teams to eventually adapt, even though it will be hard because other 2nd units don't have the talent to matchup.

Still there will be teams that pose matchup problems for the 2nd unit and slow them down, but I don't think they can be stopped!

Finally, while I agree with you about giving LF more time, I just don't like the way he thinks. He constantly says things like, "Let's see if they can keep it up"!

WTF does that mean? Why isn't it "Let's see if WE can keep it up"? If other teams adjust, then isn't it up to Frank to make additional adjustments?

It's not all on the players, and I'd like to see Frank share more of the responsibility!

[Oracle]

I've always liked the deal, but opinions vary on this board.

I admit that if we make the playoffs, the deal sours a bit for me, but that aside, it was a very good deal!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[WTF]

Some fans use the word "Potential" as if it a given that a player like Knight could be special. Sadly they justify that thinking by always pointing out what happened with some other Player X by directly or in-directly arguing how long it took Player X to develope.

One... only One post later...

A sure thing as far as future draft prospects goes I see a sure thing in UM Trey Burke. If you haven't had a chance to watch this kid Fly please do so (He smells like the next Zeke).

Then one more post later...

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry....... .

WOW!!!

BTW Burke just put on another great performance 19pt and 12ast.

No, you expressed a lot of opinions, and that's fine.

What you are doing wrong is the staggering contradictions you have between what you're allowed to do and what you complain about others doing.

You just did in back to back posting EXACTLY what you said was so sad about what others do...

1. Assuming potential is reality, and
2. Comparing a players potential to REAL performance by true stars

Even more disturbing is the fact that once pointed out, you didn't immediately notice it!

I'm not saying that all of us don't have times where we may contradict ourselves, that's human nature, but in back to back posts? That's rare and it stood out to me!

Maybe Oracle but it was more of a affirmation of thought because I believe the kid is already that good. To be more clear on 1. and I should've been in my previous posting, when potential is used around here it's often used to defend what a player lacks and quickly jumps into point 2 the comparsion which also used to point out what they they think is negative about Player X.

Keep in mind I never said Trey could be Chris Paul or Curry because I think he'll be better than both. Not even my reference of Zeke is a comparison I'm simply saying he could be the next super-star player.

[cool breeze]

His comments on why the bench has been out playing the starters....
"Their floor spacing offensively is more open than ours is on the first unit," Prince said. "It has a lot to do with Charlie out there spreading the floor, Austin spreading the floor. And you got Andre running to the rim for lobs and stuff like that. Will has the opportunity to penetrate and make plays for Andre at the rim or our three-point shooters.

"Obviously, we're not as good three-point shooters as those guys are, and Greg (Monroe) and (Jason Maxiell) don't have the athletic ability Andre has ..."

So what happens if we change roles... bench starts?

Merc, if nothing else, Tay speaks with surprising candor about the starting unit!

While they do have problems, they also are a unit that the rest of the league has mostly figured out.

To be fair, the 2nd unit has snuck up on teams who have never really seen them before, so we should expect teams to eventually adapt, even though it will be hard because other 2nd units don't have the talent to matchup.

Still there will be teams that pose matchup problems for the 2nd unit and slow them down, but I don't think they can be stopped!

Finally, while I agree with you about giving LF more time, I just don't like the way he thinks. He constantly says things like, "Let's see if they can keep it up"!

WTF does that mean? Why isn't it "Let's see if WE can keep it up"? If other teams adjust, then isn't it up to Frank to make additional adjustments?

It's not all on the players, and I'd like to see Frank share more of the responsibility!

I like everything you said Oracle. I watched Frank on the sideline before the side out of bounds play he drew up and Frank sure didn't look like a coach anyone could have confidence in especially the players. Maybe he is a good practice coach. Maybe he can motivate players. But Frank is not a good game time coach. That much is very clear. Frank might be a better fit as an assistant coach. Now Dumars has hired 3 assistant coaches who act like assistant coaches. None of those coaches could react well as to what was going on during actual games. All three suffered the experience of getting out coached by opponents almost every game.

[cool breeze]

[quote="Grizz2"]

Does anyone think that Joe Dumars believes Frank did a good job tonight? It doesn't matter that the Pistons won the game. The way this game played out and that out of bounds play Frank drew up was so stupid it is beyond belief. These players have no coach. The combinations Frank creates makes no sense either. In the first half when Daye couldn't miss a shot, Frank brings in Stuckey and Bynum who both dominated the shot clock and I counted where Daye didn't touch the basketball for 8 straight possessions and during that stretch no Piston player got off a shot that looked like a good shot. Time after time our guards were feeding Maxiell who missed. What do you do in the NBA where basketball is supposed to be played at the highest level? Yes you find a way to feed the player with the hot hand. Not Larry Frank our Piston coach. He has no idea what he is doing. Atlanta played a horrible game. It wasn't that the Pistons were playing well at all. And Daye got hot and scored a lot of points. Stuckey was horrible on both ends of the floor but did Frank notice? No he didn't notice because Frank cannot make game time decisions. He bases it all on his pre game throught process. When Detroit had a large lead in the 4th quarter but couldn't defend or make shots which lead to Atlanta's comback what did Frank do? Yes, he played Monroe and Charlie V together. The opposing announcers kept stating that combinations of Monroe-Maxiell or Monroe-Charlie V do not work because those big men combinations are the slowest in the league to rotate on defense. It is so obvious. All any coach needs to do in integrate Drummond into a workable defensive set and this team will eliminate a lot of mistakes. And when you have a nice lead but the lead is disappearing quickly, you need to get your best defenders on the floor to make stops. That didn't happen as Frank had the worst defenders on the floor. Where was Singler who in my opinion is the best defender on the team? I guess that Singler is going to be history soon. What I saw with Singler on the floor was good solid defense, good passing, good screens, good positioning to rebound the basketball. It is difficult to shoot over Singler by opposing guards. You can't have 4 ball hogs on the floor together or 4 shooters who can't play a lick of defense. This should have been an easy win by over 20 points. And Frank looked like a lost puppy at the end of that game instead of a leader. These players must be having issues of trust with this coach. He shouldn't be considered as a head coach of a high school team. I look at the combinations Frank plays and say what the hell is going on with this organization. It appears that this team has enough talent to actually play better than 500 basketball but how can they do it with this coaching staff?

Don . heaing you .. the out of bounds play that Prince gagged up had NO SCREENS set .. although Knight was grabbed and fouled by Teague .. and the officials didnt call it ..

Maybe no one has ragged on Frank more than me .. I still blame him (not completely) for Knight not developing ..

But recently .. the team has been winning .. and that is the bottom line .. Pro's, Con's of L. F.

Always been Pro's
1. He wants the ball to go inside for post play .. Monroe has become a solid force inside ..
2. He wants players to defend for all their worth ... WORKS FOR ME .. and for the team ..

Recent Pro's
1. More real plays .. less crappy ISOs ..
2. Plays Drummond more .. up to 20 minutes
3. Doesnt get 4th quarter brain freeze so much now ..
4. Got CV, Daye, and Bynum to play REAL WELL OVERALL when they were given up for DEAD . I have no idea how .. but ..

I agree with Oracle and have said it myself . Drummond makes everyone .. play better and with more confidence .. The defensive gaps in CV, Daye, and Bynum are harder to exploit with AD on the job ..

Still Fails at these only Not as Much
1. Calling time outs too late ..
2. Subs too late for players who are mucking things up
3. Has strange combinations of players on the floor as if he drew their names out of the hat..
4. Getting Knight to play like a real PG...

So is Frank underachieving with a bunch of talented guys? My conclusion is RECENTLY Frank has gotten better . and it shows ..

The East is horribly weak this season ... Even the Miani C-Heat are not that strong .. The Pistons will make the play-offs or Moe Frank is worse than Curly and Larry ... in the final analysis .. which means we WILL lose our number 1 draft pick .. as I have been ranting fromt the very beginning about the Ben Gorden plus a #1 pick trade disaster .. The main positive was addition by subtraction ..Getting Gordon out of here .. but we should have just released Gordon or amnestied him .. and kept the number 1 pick .. I will be proven right about that ..

So Fire Frank if we DONT make the play-offs and FIRE Dumars if we do for losing the number 1 pick .. (kidding mostly on that .)

Good response Grizz. I am not impressed with this win streak. The Pistons are home and have fewer games right now. They are shooting the ball much better and guys like Daye are enjoying some success. However, the key thing to remember is how well did the opponent play against Detroit? Were those teams faking it for the most part? How well did Detroit actually play defense in all of those games? I still do not see much improvement in Charlie V, Daye, Stuckey, Bynum and Monroe when thinking about playing sound defense. And it still looks odd to me to see such a small power forward in Maxiell starting games and playing a lot of minutes. I wish those players the best and am not rooting against them. I want them to show that they can play defense when it counts.

Brandon Knight seems to be playing well in the first half of games and then has not been able to find the consistantcy regarding not turning over the basketball in crunch time. I still like his upside though. And Drummond is the shinning star. He is a game changer. I can't imagine not having that guy in the game during crunch time if only for his defensive ability.

[Sparma]

David Mayo: "If the Pistons spend the money correctly, they won't miss that draft pick."

You get a one year window to spend the money in such a way that a first round (lottery pick in '14?) pick won't be missed. If, indeed.

[merc]

I've always liked the deal, but opinions vary on this board.

I admit that if we make the playoffs, the deal sours a bit for me, but that aside, it was a very good deal!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

It's a gr8 deal for the Cats... if they play their cards right they could get another 1st rounder for BG this summer.

For our side it all comes down to what Joe does with the $s... after his last spending spree (in a similar F.A. market) this could be deja vu all over again.... can't see where getting into a bidding war for this summers crop can lead to anything but overspending for talent... then he says he's not working a deal before the deadline that depletes our cap room for next summer?...
The best hope is that some team needs a few more bucks to sign a F.A. and are willing to deal a young prospect for a one sided salary transaction.

[deusXango]

You all better get off that Knight Bandwagon and hope that we can find a way to land this kid in the freaking draft this summer. As it stands this kid is Top 20 and will soon become a certain lottery pick. This isn't just potential this is looking at the real deal. Who was Knight being compared to Oops I can't remember

They say Paul but, he reminds me more of a combination of Paul and Curry.......

Wise, you made me a believer.....ESPN, huh? It's time to start thinking seriously about trading Knight (like we did with Larry Drew to make room for "Zeke") and Stuckey for a high draft pick, and hope like hell that Burke is there for us. I'm ready for a real PG, and not a "combo guard" in PG training.

[Oracle]

Walker is a blur, and a good finisher!

Pistons need to impose their will, but more importantly, play some effing DEFENSE!!!

[Sponsored content]