Atl

[Sparma]

Thanks for the update, Grizz. Exciting game to follow online; even bearing draft possibilities in mind, I find it impossible to not root for a win with my young son following along.

[Grizz2]

Thanks for the update, Grizz. Exciting game to follow online; even bearing draft possibilities in mind, I find it impossible to not root for a win with my young son following along.

Hey Sparma ..

Real exciting .. Dont look good at the moment .. but what an effort by Bynum and the rest of the reserves ...

Frank should do the right thing for the team and resign ...

[Sparma]

Looked like a heck of night by the bench, all 5 were +, while all the starters were -. How rare is that? Probably not a lot to build on apart from Drummond's game, but still exciting, and fun for guys who've gotten little play.

[Oracle]

I turned it off early in the 4th when we were down by 20!

They came back, and took it to 2 OT's???

Wow, that's impressive on the road!

[Oracle]

Hawks edge Pistons in 2 OTs

By GEORGE HENRY
Posted Dec 26 2012 11:34PM
ATLANTA (AP) Josh Smith scored 31 points, Al Horford added 22 and the Atlanta Hawks beat the Detroit Pistons 126-119 in double overtime on Wednesday night.

The Hawks blew a 22-point, fourth-quarter lead as Detroit reserves Will Bynum and Charlie Villanueva scored a combined 26 points in the final period of regulation.

Atlanta has won two straight and eight of 12. Detroit has lost seven of nine.

Bynum finished with 31 points, one less than his career high, and assisted on the last two baskets of regulation, when Andre Drummond's dunk cut the lead to two and Austin Daye's 3-pointer gave the Pistons a 101-100 lead with 4 seconds remaining.

Al Horford followed by making just one of two free throws for the Hawks to force the first overtime.

After Jeff Teague's two free throws tied it at 108-all for Atlanta at the 1:05 mark of the first overtime, neither team scored again until Lou Williams hit a pair of free throws to give the Hawks a 110-108 lead early in the second overtime.

Bynum gave Detroit its last lead at 112-110 at the 3:03 mark. Atlanta never trailed after Teague's 3 made it 113-112 with 2:46 remaining.

Reserves Rodney Stuckey and Drummond each finished with 16 points, and Tayshaun Prince and Villaneuva added 14 for the Pistons.

Williams, starting for the second straight game, finished with 18. Teague had 17 and Anthony Morrow 16 for Atlanta, which outscored the Pistons 36-9 on fast-break points.

The Hawks were up by 22 early in the fourth quarter when DeShawn Stevenson's 3 from the left corner made it 84-62.

But as Bynum kept driving the lane and beating the Hawks to the rim, Smith went cold for the Hawks, missing his last seven shots in the fourth and both overtime periods. Smith was 13 for 18 through the first three quarters.

Williams' steal and ensuing layup at the 6:47 mark of the second gave the Hawks a 15-point lead. But Detroit went on a 19-9 run to make it 48-43 on Brandon Knight's putback in the final minute of the period.

Atlanta missed six of its first seven shots from the field, but the Hawks led by 16 in the final minute of the first on Morrow's 3.

Notes: Hawks G Devin Harris missed his fourth straight game with a sore left foot. ... Atlanta G Kyle Korver was 2-for-11 from the field. ... Smith's point total was his best since March 31 at Philadelphia, when he had 34. His career high of 38 was on Nov. 17, 2007, at Milwaukee. ... Detroit's last three-game winning streak was last March 31-April 5 in a homestand against Charlotte, Orlando and Washington.

[Oracle]

The whole starting unit STINKS right now!

Maxiell... ONE POINT? Does Michael Curry ring a bell?

Singler... ZERO points!!! Intangibles can't cover that level of futility!!!

Knight, 9 points and ONLY 2 assists? PG?

Moose, 10 points and ONLY 4 boards? Is he trying to be the new CV?

But Stuckey, 16 points and 11 assists!!!

Running a HIGHLY productive 2nd unit, that's beginning to look more like they should be the starting unit!

Ok, Bynum's 31 points isn't anywhere near normal, but Drummond(16pts/12boards) could deliver that nightly with Stuckey running the show! CV with 14pts and 7 boards is looking like a typical CV outing.

It's time to do something REALLY hard, and put Monroe, Maxiell and Knight on the 2nd unit! They've had their chance, let's see if a Stuckey led starting 5 can do any better.

It might even light a spark under their arses!

[WTF]

Bynum As good as the 31 pts looked on the stat sheets what it doesn't show is all trhe poor decisions he made with the ball in both over-times. Of the 26 shots he attempted only 13 were good and that's only because they actually went in. The other 13 he missed with exception on 1 were bad shots attempts that were either too early, not the best shot selection, that it border on (ball hogging) and when he did decide to pass the ball it was the worst attempt at a pass ever. We win this game 10 out of 10 times with a competent PG and to me Bynum helped lose this game more than he did in trying to win it

Kudos to the bench but I think Frank at some point in either OT should have went back to his starters even though they played so so during regualtion. Again Bynum played out of control and ball hogged us into another loss and I hope this was clearly obvious seen by the coach. (Maybe Not)

[merc]

A lot of positives can be taken from this one... Bynum & CV's trade value took a jump.
If we can compete against the Heat then it's on for the future... I'm thinking one more year of this bottom feeder crap then by this time next year we're turning the corner... no room for front office F-ups

[Grizz2]

Wise .. good point about Bynum ... he did carry the team on his back but .. The thing is .. when the opposing team, its coach and players are ready for Bynum .. they will shut him down .. and Bynum will destroy the offensive flow ball hogging it ..

UNFORTUNATELY .. this is EXACTLY what Frank wants .. Players (Bynum, Knight, Stuckey ..) to go ISO with no system and no plays so he doesnt have to think too hard about what to do .. That is what he is doing with Knight and Monroe .. They score but they score inspite of the horrible system (?) Frank has, not because of it ..

The second unit succeeded because :(1) the Hawks eased up .. relaxed and choked ...and (2) they were not prepared to exploit the very serious weaknesses some of our bench players possess .. Put this unit in the starting line up .. and they are going to do worse than the regulars .. when the opposing team prepares to take advantage of these players' weaknessses .. (Bynum wont pass .. not a good defender ... Daye is too slow and cannot defend ...)


A good offense has players cutting to the basket .. alley oops .. Screens that free players to score .. pick and roll .. guards who penetrate and kick it out .. and Post Up Inside plays set up from the exterior .. and fastbreaks to score easy points . HOW OFTEN DO THESE THINGS happen in Frank's offense ... not very much ..

I have been in Knight's corner for PG for the longest time .. but if Frank is going to run his offense into the ground .. And BK7 is NOT going to become a PG under Frank .. then make him a SG .. Put Stuckey at PG ...

BUT I fully expect Frank to bench Knight soon .. and blame him for not developing into the PG the team needs .. THE TRUTH: (1) Frank cannot teach anyone to become a PG AND (2) his system is so poorly designed .. with the wrong player combinations and the wrong players starting who should be coming off the bench .. I DO BELIEVE Knight could become a good PG with a good head coach .. As long as Frank is here .. his system and understanding of offense . make that impossible so ..

And putting JMAX as starting PF .. one who CANNOT defend GOOD PFs . one who CANNOT score and doesnt want to score .. Jmax is CRIPPLING our offense because it leaves a free man to double team whomever has the ball .. He also tires easily against the bigger players ...

If Drummond were out there .. as a starter .. as he was for when the Pistons came back against the Hawks .. The opposition CANNOT double team so easily because they are worried about Drummond dunking and boarding big time off them .. Frank has to start Drummond .. or we will lose to any team except the Wizards and the Cavs ..

Oracle .. dont be too hard on Monroe .. he is the only true big out there for us .. He is being over matched by being asked to play center ..when he isnt a true center .. without a complementary BIG to help him play the right way .. Monroe should be at the high post as a Power Forward, passing so well as he does .. or taking the ball to the basket .. or hitting the open shot ..

Really .. I like our chances if the team were under a good head coach .. BUT ..

In Summary .. Move Stuckey to Starting PG .. Drummond to starting Center .. Monroe to starting PF .. Knight to SG .. Prince as SF ... Let CV .. who played good D against the Hawks .. back up PF-C ... Jmax and Kravstov back up also at PF and Center .. Singler and JJ back up Prince ... Let Bynum be the back up 3rd guard ... Use Daye in emergency use only ....

And why the hell didnt Frank substitute even one player from the last end of the 3rd quarter onward through the entire 4th quarter and TWO overtimes!? Ridiculous ... He is so INSECURE, unwilling to accept responsiblity for his role as a head coach .. as well as lazy mentally as a head coach ..

One more prediction .. Frank will be fired before the all star game .. All NBA head coaches are going to continue to abuse him in strategy and match ups big time to our team's big disadvantage ..

[Oracle]

Bynum As good as the 31 pts looked on the stat sheets what it doesn't show is all trhe poor decisions he made with the ball in both over-times. Of the 26 shots he attempted only 13 were good and that's only because they actually went in. The other 13 he missed with exception on 1 were bad shots attempts that were either too early, not the best shot selection, that it border on (ball hogging) and when he did decide to pass the ball it was the worst attempt at a pass ever. We win this game 10 out of 10 times with a competent PG and to me Bynum helped lose this game more than he did in trying to win it

Kudos to the bench but I think Frank at some point in either OT should have went back to his starters even though they played so so during regualtion. Again Bynum played out of control and ball hogged us into another loss and I hope this was clearly obvious seen by the coach. (Maybe Not)

Bynum took 26 shots and 13 went in??? WTF, that's 50% shooting, and in ANYBODY'S book that means you're on FIRE!!!!

Where you see ball hogging, I see a team letting the guy with the hot hand go for it, as well they should!

That's basketball at its purist, and if they didn't feed Bynum the ball, they better find another 50% shooter... oops there wern't any others!

You're seeing this part of the game totally wrong because you're looking at it through the prisim of your bias against Bynum!

Don't do that, give credit where it's EARNED!

[Oracle]

A lot of positives can be taken from this one... Bynum & CV's trade value took a jump.
If we can compete against the Heat then it's on for the future... I'm thinking one more year of this bottom feeder crap then by this time next year we're turning the corner... no room for front office F-ups

Merc, that's what I'm feeling as well!

Knight NEEDS this year to get the goofy crap out of his game! He reminds me of a less talented Westbrook. Doing the right things, but too wild and taking too much risk to be a solid player.

Westbrook eventually got most of it out of his system, and Knight will too.

Monroe will stabilize his game by next year too.

I still say that the Bat(Chauncey) taught Stuckey well! Stuckey is going back to his roots, the PG skills he was taught as a pup are finally sinking in on a regular basis... i.e., he may be finally getting it!

While I still think that they will gel before season end, it's next year that I expect to see bigger changes, although I'm a little surprised at Monroe sliding back a bit in his 3rd year. knight is understandable because this is pretty much his rookie campaign. We expected too much from Knight this year, and I'm cool with allowing him to mature, he'll be alright!

[deusXango]

The mad ass basketball that Rodney Stuckey has been playing of late is quite impressive, so much so that giddy fans are calling for him to be reinstated to the starting lineup, totally forgetting that he stank up the joint for years as a starter! His forte' is as 6th man, just where he is, and it appears that he's one of the best. Those same giddy fans are also forgetting that Stuckey asked to come off the bench, and since then the team has been more competitive (due to his leadership of the productive 2nd unit which was non-existent before his arrival), and he actually seems happy there. Why're we scratching sh!t that don't itch?

The biggest contribution Chauncey made in mentoring Stuckey was giving him an excellent PG to play behind (he looked good then), and the biggest screw-up made by Dumars was forceing Stuckey into the starting role of PG because he looked good as a 6th man! For years fans looked for the potential to manifest itself but, it was already there; he's what Isiah Thomas called "the best basketball player he can be." Not a PG, or SG, or "combo guard," but a basketball player! Let's not repeat a mistake, just let the man play; I'm enjoying him more now than I've been able to since his rookie year. To Lil' Larry's credit, he's the only coach that's allowed Stuckey to come off the bench (remember he didn't ask/tell Stuckey to do so). We're getting value from our spare parts. Coincidence? Whatever! All I know is he and CV are doing what Dumars brought Gordon and Villanueva here to do; they're turning into one of the leagues premier scoring duos, off the bench, and the team is getting it's moneys worth from these two.

Knight is sucking? Let him play through it. Singler is looseing his way? Give English a chance. Simple. Maxiell is running out of steam (as we all knew he would). Jerebko can't be any worse! Da' Moose is not a superstar! What he is is a damn good player, albeit, better than most!!! Leave him alone. We've come this far with Drummond coming off the bench (when we didn't have a decent bench), let him continue to do so; Stuckey, CV, and Drummond are turning into something special, and "special" is what elevates teams into contention. Singler probably needs to join them but, you didn't hear it from me.

I'm getting excited. GO PISTONS!!!
* (Wouldn't it be something if we kicked the Heats ass?)

[WTF]

Bynum As good as the 31 pts looked on the stat sheets what it doesn't show is all trhe poor decisions he made with the ball in both over-times. Of the 26 shots he attempted only 13 were good and that's only because they actually went in. The other 13 he missed with exception on 1 were bad shots attempts that were either too early, not the best shot selection, that it border on (ball hogging) and when he did decide to pass the ball it was the worst attempt at a pass ever. We win this game 10 out of 10 times with a competent PG and to me Bynum helped lose this game more than he did in trying to win it

Kudos to the bench but I think Frank at some point in either OT should have went back to his starters even though they played so so during regualtion. Again Bynum played out of control and ball hogged us into another loss and I hope this was clearly obvious seen by the coach. (Maybe Not)

Bynum took 26 shots and 13 went in??? WTF, that's 50% shooting, and in ANYBODY'S book that means you're on FIRE!!!!

Where you see ball hogging, I see a team letting the guy with the hot hand go for it, as well they should!

That's basketball at its purist, and if they didn't feed Bynum the ball, they better find another 50% shooter... oops there wern't any others!

You're seeing this part of the game totally wrong because you're looking at it through the prisim of your bias against Bynum!

Don't do that, give credit where it's EARNED!

Sorry Oracle but that could have been Knight, Stuckey or Bynum and I would still say the same thing. Like I said don't be fool by the stats because their was several times in both OT's that his shots were ill-advised and his ball-handling lead to costly TO's. Bynum wasn't shooting 50% in those 2 OT's and it wasn't a result of them feeding the hot hand more so Bynum thinking he was the hot hand with a lot of ISO. Even Kelser noted this and used the words ill-advised. I'm looking at his play during those 2 OT's

[WTF]

Bynum was 4 of 10 in the 2 OT's with 2 TO's and those misses were terrible attempts. Also there were 4 other players on the floor shooting 50% Tay, Charlie, Daye and Drummond any four could have been an option in OT

[Murph]

Great game last night. Clearly, the Pistons played their best game of the season. We came back from being down 22 in the 4th quarter, led by our bench. We out-rebounded the Hawks by 15, and if Bynum had been able to hit one of those lay-ups at the end of the 1st OT, we would have pulled out the win.

Drummond and Austin Daye were outstanding on the boards, with 12 and 11 repectively. It's nice to see Austin Daye finally getting another shot at extended minutes at the forward spot. He's finally beginning to play well...after all these years. I'm afraid it might to be too little too late for Austin.

You know why I think all these guys play better off the bench than as starters (Stuckey, CV, Daye, Bynum)? I think it's because they play with Drummond. I think Drummond changes the game to such an extent that he makes all the players around him better. If you look at the +/- stats for the season, the guys with the best +/- numbers (Daye, CV and Drummond himself) come off the bench and play when Drummond is in the game.

An obvious solution to that would be to insert Drummond into the starting line-up so that he could make Monroe, Knight, Prince and Singler better. Lil Larry?

I'm glad Stuckey came back into the game after his rolled ankle.

[Murph]

The second unit succeeded because :(1) the Hawks eased up .. relaxed and choked ...and (2) they were not prepared to exploit the very serious weaknesses some of our bench players possess .. Put this unit in the starting line up .. and they are going to do worse than the regulars .. when the opposing team prepares to take advantage of these players' weaknessses .. (Bynum wont pass .. not a good defender ... Daye is too slow and cannot defend ...)


A good offense has players cutting to the basket .. alley oops .. Screens that free players to score .. pick and roll .. guards who penetrate and kick it out .. and Post Up Inside plays set up from the exterior .. and fastbreaks to score easy points . HOW OFTEN DO THESE THINGS happen in Frank's offense ... not very much ..

I have been in Knight's corner for PG for the longest time .. but if Frank is going to run his offense into the ground .. And BK7 is NOT going to become a PG under Frank .. then make him a SG .. Put Stuckey at PG ...

BUT I fully expect Frank to bench Knight soon .. and blame him for not developing into the PG the team needs .. THE TRUTH: (1) Frank cannot teach anyone to become a PG AND (2) his system is so poorly designed .. with the wrong player combinations and the wrong players starting who should be coming off the bench .. I DO BELIEVE Knight could become a good PG with a good head coach .. As long as Frank is here .. his system and understanding of offense . make that impossible so ..

And putting JMAX as starting PF .. one who CANNOT defend GOOD PFs . one who CANNOT score and doesnt want to score .. Jmax is CRIPPLING our offense because it leaves a free man to double team whomever has the ball .. He also tires easily against the bigger players ...

If Drummond were out there .. as a starter .. as he was for when the Pistons came back against the Hawks .. The opposition CANNOT double team so easily because they are worried about Drummond dunking and boarding big time off them .. Frank has to start Drummond .. or we will lose to any team except the Wizards and the Cavs ..

Oracle .. dont be too hard on Monroe .. he is the only true big out there for us .. He is being over matched by being asked to play center ..when he isnt a true center .. without a complementary BIG to help him play the right way .. Monroe should be at the high post as a Power Forward, passing so well as he does .. or taking the ball to the basket .. or hitting the open shot ..

Really .. I like our chances if the team were under a good head coach .. BUT ..

In Summary .. Move Stuckey to Starting PG .. Drummond to starting Center .. Monroe to starting PF .. Knight to SG .. Prince as SF ... Let CV .. who played good D against the Hawks .. back up PF-C ... Jmax and Kravstov back up also at PF and Center .. Singler and JJ back up Prince ... Let Bynum be the back up 3rd guard...

One more prediction .. Frank will be fired before the all star game .. All NBA head coaches are going to continue to abuse him in strategy and match ups big time to our team's big disadvantage ..

Grizz...good post. I pretty much agree with all your points. Although I'm afraid we might have to live with Lil Larry for quite a while, still.

[Murph]

If ever there are still any doubts that the Pistons should persue Josh Smith in a sign and trade before the trade deadline, last night's game should clear up those doubts.

Smith had 31 pts, 10 rbds and 6 asts in 48 minutes to lead the Hawks.

[merc]

The Portland News is saying Alridge is on the block... hmmm

[deusXango]

The Portland News is saying Alridge is on the block... hmmm

[merc]

The Portland News is saying Alridge is on the block... hmmm

He's a young proven allstar... can stretch the floor for our guards and Drummond... with a solid post game.

[deusXango]

The Portland News is saying Alridge is on the block... hmmm

He's a young proven allstar... can stretch the floor for our guards and Drummond... with a solid post game.

Merc, I meant, with all these obvious truths that you pointed out, why would Portland want to go forward without him? Damian Lillard is a promising young guard but, he's unseasoned and no reason to part with Aldridge. Portland hasn't won anything, so how come Aldridge is on the block this early in the season? For the record, I'd love to have Aldridge in a Pistons uniform, providing he's healthy with a positive health prognosis.

[WTF]

Avery Johnson has a .500 record and gets canned with quickness. While Gores holds LF and Joe's dicks with tweezers and apologizes for it size.

[Sebastian]

Avery Johnson has a .500 record and gets canned with quickness. While Gores holds LF and Joe's dicks with tweezers and apologizes for it size.

Wise, I'm with you. If Avery Johnson can get fired with 14-14 Nets team that has a bunch of newly acquired parts that have yet to jell, then Gores should tell Joe to do what Prokhorov ordered Billy King to do to Avery.

And, Avery is a far better damn coach than L. Frank.

Gores get Joe on the phone, so that he can tell L. Frank to pack his bags. Then hire Zeke!

[cool breeze]

First off, I still do not agree that the Pistons should sell the farm to bring in Josh Smith. I have been watching him play a lot since so many fans keep chanting that they want him to play in Detroit. Don't get me wrong, of course he could improve the amount of wins we are experiencing right now. But I was not impressed with Smith last night even though he scored over 30 points. This player still has concentration issues like he always has had. How much better can he play? Is he a smart player? How does he perform in crunch time? Will he ever learn how to make pressure free throws? Can he defend the pick and roll plays? Last night I thought to myself there is no way a good to average NBA team who expects to complete the year with a 500 record will do that if they couldn't stop what Bynum and Stuckey were doing to them last night. Remember when Bynum came into the league with the Pistons and really seemed to make an impact with the one simple play of a big setting a screen for Bynum beyond the free throw line? This play worked for the Pistons and Bynum for about a month. Then coaches for opposing teams took their heads out of their rears and stopped Bynum cold. All of the good teams in the league also prepared for Stuckey as well and soon Detroit's scoring average sunk towards the bottom of the league. Last night the Atlanta coach had a brain fart and sat there allowing Piston guards to drive at will. Piston fans that won't happen on a regular basis. Teams allow that stuff when they know the game is out of reach and they have the game locked. And Josh Smith really sucked on defense last night as usual during crunch time. He is a guy who lights up the stat sheet but his team seldom wins much of anything when looking at the full season results. He can't hit free throws in the clutch and often makes mistakes on defense in crunch time. And Smith should have scored on every possession playing against Charlie V and Daye. Obviously Atlanta will have to sign him and pay the big bucks. I wouldn't want Detroit to sink a lot of money in his contract or trade our young guys at this point. I am not trying to take away the effort those bench players made last night. Coach Frank was not serious about winning that game. He did no coaching to help the team win. How many times can a team win when only two players touch the basketball?

Drummond was outstanding at times last night. That is what should be making us all happy right now. We have some really good basketball minds writing on this forum now. I agree will all of the posters who have observed that Frank's selection of player combinations especially in the starting unit and the style of offense is so lame that it would be very difficult for any point guard to be successful and improve in that system. I feel for Knight and Singler. Size matters in any starting unit on an NBA team. Also, using both sides of the court on offense is mandatory. There is a lot of standing because players know they will not touch the ball. If they set a screen for a potential weak side play, they know the player with the ball is not watching.

For no better reason, Frank should be fired for not playing Jerebco and English.

The Pistons accomplished one good thing last night. They lost the game and that is another loss that might help them in this next draft. Bring on the Heat for another loss sports fans. I think that Labron has had one foul called against him in about 100 hours of playing so far this season. Way to go David Stern! Everyone can see how corrupt your league has become.

[Murph]

So I found a couple of articles on Smith's contract situation, and the articles make it sound as if there is a very remote possiblility of him coming to a team like the Pistons, in a sign and trade. Apparently, it benifits Smith to declare himself a FA and then resign with the Hawks.

From HoopsWorld:

"The NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement allows Smith to sign an extension that adds three years to his deal and it’s based off the value of his current contract, which is not a max level deal. If Josh waits until July and becomes an unrestricted free agent he can ink a max deal worth more than $100 million over five-years, similar to what Deron Williams signed in Brooklyn this summer.

The Hawks hold an advantage in a couple of areas; they can offer a five-year deal whereas any other team can offer only a four-year deal, they will have the cap space to add more talent around Smith and Atlanta is home for him."

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