Re: FORUM

[WTF]

Somebody needs to tell kieth Langlois that 2 straight wins does not constitute a "Streak". I could flip a coin 2 times, and odds are 50/50 that it will come up on the same side both times. If he wants to see a streak, all he has to do is take Joe's panties out of his mouth and have a look-see.

I missed the game last night, which seems to be the key to the Pistons winning. Looks like Knight will be ready to go by our next game on Wednesday. The tough lil SOB wanted to finish out the game last night.

Good one Fly ..

Only KL and Rett would think so . Real teams run off 7 or 8 games without breaking a sweat

[FlyDog]

We could dig up Beethoven and Elvis for a nice duet. Are you lonesome, tonight............................

I don't care for Madonna's music, whoreness, or her fake British accent, but I thought she did a pretty good job, and looks great for her age. I worry about Cee-Lo; is he a midget? What is that circus freak's deal? He looks like he just popped out of a Jack-in-the-box. He gave me nightmares last night.

[frankied]

We could dig up Beethoven and Elvis for a nice duet. Are you lonesome, tonight............................

I don't care for Madonna's music, whoreness, or her fake British accent, but I thought she did a pretty good job, and looks great for her age. I worry about Cee-Lo; is he a midget? What is that circus freak's deal? He looks like he just popped out of a Jack-in-the-box. He gave me nightmares last night.

if you have nightmares about cee-lo, i wonder if you've seen this...

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[cool breeze]

Sure guys like Stuckey and even Daye may have scored more points than Knight over a three year period of time. However, no guard has really done everything in a game, rebounding, assists, scoring, screening etc. And one other factor is important. Knight has the intensity that causes other players to make the change from a slug to someone who contributes and stays alert during the game. Big Ben Wallace has made some statements about his fellow players that must sting a bit regarding the fact that most of the players that Dumars has signed will never be considered quality defenders. I think that Knight has the ability to become a outstanding defender. He has great feet and balance and outstanding quickness. I still can't believe that the Pistons actually have Brandon Knight in a Piston uniform. I am so used to below average quality players when it comes to guards that Joe likes. It is amazing that he was such a great defender himself but decided that that quality was not important to building a winning team. I agree with everyone that all of our guards are expendable except for Knight. Even though Stuckey played very well in the last game, it is clear that he cannot do it against any team that plays good defense. Stuckey builds his stats against the horrible teams. I wish that he could prove me wrong. That performance against the Bucks by Knight will go down as a great memory for me. He was up against a very quick and productive point guard that night and proved that he can do the same thing and has one extra thing - leadership. Way to go Brandon Knight.

[Oracle]

@Fly & Wise - Are you joking???

Madonna did look great, but can't they do better for the Super Bowl? Did Gaga have a previous engagement?

BTW, I do LOVE Madonna's music, she's a singularly special artist(and Ho of course).

One of my albolute favorites is Material Girl! One of the few times she looks super elegant.

[Grizz]

Sure guys like Stuckey and even Daye may have scored more points than Knight over a three year period of time. However, no guard has really done everything in a game, rebounding, assists, scoring, screening etc. And one other factor is important. Knight has the intensity that causes other players to make the change from a slug to someone who contributes and stays alert during the game. Big Ben Wallace has made some statements about his fellow players that must sting a bit regarding the fact that most of the players that Dumars has signed will never be considered quality defenders. I think that Knight has the ability to become a outstanding defender. He has great feet and balance and outstanding quickness. I still can't believe that the Pistons actually have Brandon Knight in a Piston uniform. I am so used to below average quality players when it comes to guards that Joe likes. It is amazing that he was such a great defender himself but decided that that quality was not important to building a winning team. I agree with everyone that all of our guards are expendable except for Knight. Even though Stuckey played very well in the last game, it is clear that he cannot do it against any team that plays good defense. Stuckey builds his stats against the horrible teams. I wish that he could prove me wrong. That performance against the Bucks by Knight will go down as a great memory for me. He was up against a very quick and productive point guard that night and proved that he can do the same thing and has one extra thing - leadership. Way to go Brandon Knight.

I feel strongly .. rightly or wrongly .. that Stuckey should have been given encouragement and time to play SG and making jump shots vs the failed PG experiment .. It all happened to justify the Billups trade .. and it didnt come close to justifying it in the end .. But Knight is a brand new day .. Great Pick Dumars ..

[Rett]

[frankied]

just saw okc/portland and it was a great game.
but it also featured the kind of officiating that tells a fan when the league wants to favor a team.
no doubt the league wants durant and okc to get to the finals.
there was a last second goaltending call that favored okc, and tied the game, sending it into overtime, that was as bad as any i've ever seen.
first, it was clearly a clean block, on replay.
but most ridiculously, the official who made the call had been near midcourt, i think on the other side of half court, and he came in, after the closer officials had not made a call, and called goaltending. a horrible, horrible call, and one that is clear on replay. but it sent the game into overtime and okc won it from there.
one last thing...the official who made the call was scott foster. if i recall correctly, scott foster is the same ref who had a relationship with tim donaghy, the guy who is in a federal pen right now if that is correct, it is a very curious coincidence....

[frankied]

check out this artucle, that i came across just by googling scott foster and tim donaghy.
it brings up a situation curiously similar to what happened tonight.
foster making a call from the other side of the court, at a crucial time of the game.
it was truly incredible. out of nowhere, foster just rushed in, blew his whistle and called goaltending, when the two closest officials had allowed what looked like a good block.
all you could do is say...wow! WHAT!
the nba is going to have some "splainin" to do. ...in the immortal words of lucy arnez.

[frankied]

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]
this guy is crooked as you could ever imagine a ref...

[merc]

I feel strongly .. rightly or wrongly .. that Stuckey should have been given encouragement and time to play SG and making jump shots vs the failed PG experiment .. It all happened to justify the Billups trade .. and it didnt come close to justifying it in the end .. But Knight is a brand new day .. Great Pick Dumars ..

Grizz, I can buy that

[Grizz]

Thanks for the update Rhett

Sorry about that .. CB gave the Clips that 2 good PGs on the floor dimension .. And sorry because it was all going so well for Chauncey... Big shame ..

[Grizz]

I feel strongly .. rightly or wrongly .. that Stuckey should have been given encouragement and time to play SG and making jump shots vs the failed PG experiment .. It all happened to justify the Billups trade .. and it didnt come close to justifying it in the end .. But Knight is a brand new day .. Great Pick Dumars ..

Grizz, I can buy that

Mercury, Lets hope Frank will get Stuckey to work on his outside shooting ... Actually .. Stuckey was a big favorite of mine until last season .. I just got too much angst from all these out of postion player WTF experiments .. But it looks like Joe is seeing the light .. very late .. 3 years actually too late . but ..
I still would need him to be more honest about what he did right and wrong .. and all the PR that has been going on to protect him from the hint of ever having made a mistake ..

[Murph]

Have the Knicks finally found themselves a PG? For the 2nd game in a row, the Knicks were led in scoring and assists by undrafted Harvard alumn (and frankie d favorite) Jeremy Lin, this time without Amare and Melo. And for the 2nd game in a row, the Knicks won. You can't make this stuff up.

[frankied]

Have the Knicks finally found themselves a PG? For the 2nd game in a row, the Knicks were led in scoring and assists by undrafted Harvard alumn (and frankie d favorite) Jeremy Lin, this time without Amare and Melo. And for the 2nd game in a row, the Knicks won. You can't make this stuff up.

lin is perfect for d'antoni's system. makes great decisions on the pick and roll. great that the coach is giving him a shot. how many coaches would?

[Murph]

lin is perfect for d'antoni's system. makes great decisions on the pick and roll. great that the coach is giving him a shot. how many coaches would?

Well, undoubtedly D'Antoni was desparate. He had already tried just about every other guard on the Knicks' roster at the point. D'Antoni started with Douglas, then tried Bibby and Shumpert, and recently D'Antoni was trying to run the offense through Melo as a point forward. Only then did D'Antoni start Lin.

That said, Lin could become a fan favorite in NYC. The Garden was rocking last night.

With Lin from Harvard and Fields from Stanford, the Knicks now have the best educated backcourt in NBA history.

[Sebastian]

What about getting Kahn on the phone and offering OUR 2012 #1 pick for Derrick Williams?

[deusXango]

I feel strongly .. rightly or wrongly .. that Stuckey should have been given encouragement and time to play SG and making jump shots vs the failed PG experiment .. It all happened to justify the Billups trade .. and it didnt come close to justifying it in the end .. But Knight is a brand new day .. Great Pick Dumars ..

Grizz, I can buy that

Grizz, Merc, I respect your points of view entirely, really I do, and I need to get that out front before stating what I feel has been a grossly overlooked item in the decline of our Pistons, and the neglect of the development of Rodney Stuckey. Joe Dumars and the free pass given him along with eating up every half-ass excuse he offered for not pursueing excellence ie. "pass first PG's are a thing of the past."

We already had two "combo guards" and a SG in Hunter, Billips, and Hamilton when Dumars drafted Stuckey, Afflalo, and Meija; Billips and Hamilton were coming off all-star years. Of the three drafted I always felt that Afflalo was the best overall SG prospect, and that we could have improved our draft position of the #15 by packaging it, with say Prince and the Meija pick, to go after what we really needed, a younger big. We drafted Stuckey as if a #15 pick could somehow make up for the blunder of wasting the #2 pick that should have been used for drafting Anthony. Instead what was done after was Billips was traded for an over-priced, over the hill, under-sized SG in Iverson, who in effect would be the mentor for Stuckey instead of Billips. Smart move. I also believe the removal of Afflalo from the Pistons roster was to eliminate any viable competition for Stuckey being the poster child of this franchise. Joe Dumars has destroyed a team that did not need blowing up for the sole purpose of making a player perform outside of his natural abilities.

Years off Stuckey's career have been wasted by Joe's stubborn neglect, and I can't help but wonder, at this point, where would Stuckey have been drafted if not for Joe? There are many who feel that Stuckey should be given a chance to fit in here, no matter what, but that is wrong; his career may be better served elsewhere as he wouldn't have that sense of undesreved entitlement, and would work much harder at being a complete player. A SG is dangerous all over the floor, not just bulling their way to the rim and trying to finish.

[cool breeze]

What about getting Kahn on the phone and offering OUR 2012 #1 pick for Derrick Williams?

Sebastian although I have been one who has stated that the Pistons should hang on to their top pick this season, I would agree with you that Derrick Williams would be well worth it if the T Wolves would agree. How about trying to package some of our under performing vets including Gordon, Charlie V, Bynum and even Stuckey into that trade as well maybe getting Williams and one of the TWolves guards. Detroit could offer to pay for half of some of our slugs salaries just to get them out of Detroit. Williams is a winner. He will do anything for the team. In my opinion, Williams is the best player to ever play basketball at U of Arizona. He could play 4 positions at Arizona and in his second year here the team needed a center and he destroyed all the 7 footers. Remember his performance against Duke in the Sweet 16 game last year? That was the best performance of any player in the tournament for a single game. I keep looking for some outstanding big man that Detroit can get at maybe number 7 or 8 which is most likely where Detroit will pick if their winning streak continues. Michael Jordan and his rage tag team will be difficult to move from the first pick. His Charlotte team is about the worst team that I have seen in many seasons in the NBA. Scary but MJ is a guy Dumars listens to when it comes to picking players in the draft. Remember Michael's recommendation to Joe when Joe picked Rodney White over Joe Johnson? Dumars made a good pick with Brandon Knight but I am not sure his crystal ball is polished well enough to land a quality big in this draft with that first pick. Could Prince make Minn. a better team? I think they need a guy like Prince. Good idea Sebastian! I can picture how deadly the Pistons could be with Knight and Williams, two high character and high IQ players with great quickness running the team demanding an all out effort from their teammates.

[deusXango]

What about getting Kahn on the phone and offering OUR 2012 #1 pick for Derrick Williams?

Sebastian, what is it about this years pick that you seem to hate so much? Whatever play you want to go after, and they're good players, you always seem to want to part with our first round pick; possibly the best we've had in years and one that Monroe and Knight need the powers that be use wisely.

[deusXango]

What about getting Kahn on the phone and offering OUR 2012 #1 pick for Derrick Williams?

Sebastian although I have been one who has stated that the Pistons should hang on to their top pick this season, I would agree with you that Derrick Williams would be well worth it if the T Wolves would agree. How about trying to package some of our under performing vets including Gordon, Charlie V, Bynum and even Stuckey into that trade as well maybe getting Williams and one of the TWolves guards. Detroit could offer to pay for half of some of our slugs salaries just to get them out of Detroit. Williams is a winner. He will do anything for the team. In my opinion, Williams is the best player to ever play basketball at U of Arizona. He could play 4 positions at Arizona and in his second year here the team needed a center and he destroyed all the 7 footers. Remember his performance against Duke in the Sweet 16 game last year? That was the best performance of any player in the tournament for a single game. I keep looking for some outstanding big man that Detroit can get at maybe number 7 or 8 which is most likely where Detroit will pick if their winning streak continues. Michael Jordan and his rage tag team will be difficult to move from the first pick. His Charlotte team is about the worst team that I have seen in many seasons in the NBA. Scary but MJ is a guy Dumars listens to when it comes to picking players in the draft. Remember Michael's recommendation to Joe when Joe picked Rodney White over Joe Johnson? Dumars made a good pick with Brandon Knight but I am not sure his crystal ball is polished well enough to land a quality big in this draft with that first pick. Could Prince make Minn. a better team? I think they need a guy like Prince. Good idea Sebastian! I can picture how deadly the Pistons could be with Knight and Williams, two high character and high IQ players with great quickness running the team demanding an all out effort from their teammates.

Don, I know that you've seen more of Derrick Williams than anyone on this forum, and I like D Williams a lot, but Stuckey can't be traded just yet, and why would Minny take on Gordon's, Villanueva's, and Bynum's combined contracts for a player the stature of Williams playing on a rookie contract? Good idea, but we're back to the drawing board.

[deusXango]

I think we're getting too far ahead of ourselves based on a couple of wins in a row. Look at who we beat and consider that we still have an offense that stinks....a two man offense? Averaging 86 pts. a game? We won't play our way too far out of the cellar, maybe a 4th or 5th pick going into the basket of balls at the absolute worst.

JEREMY LIN! Could Vernon Mackilin be our Jeremy Lin? Alas, we'll probably never know.

[cool breeze]

I feel strongly .. rightly or wrongly .. that Stuckey should have been given encouragement and time to play SG and making jump shots vs the failed PG experiment .. It all happened to justify the Billups trade .. and it didnt come close to justifying it in the end .. But Knight is a brand new day .. Great Pick Dumars ..

Grizz, I can buy that

Grizz, Merc, I respect your points of view entirely, really I do, and I need to get that out front before stating what I feel has been a grossly overlooked item in the decline of our Pistons, and the neglect of the development of Rodney Stuckey. Joe Dumars and the free pass given him along with eating up every half-ass excuse he offered for not pursueing excellence ie. "pass first PG's are a thing of the past."

We already had two "combo guards" and a SG in Hunter, Billips, and Hamilton when Dumars drafted Stuckey, Afflalo, and Meija; Billips and Hamilton were coming off all-star years. Of the three drafted I always felt that Afflalo was the best overall SG prospect, and that we could have improved our draft position of the #15 by packaging it, with say Prince and the Meija pick, to go after what we really needed, a younger big. We drafted Stuckey as if a #15 pick could somehow make up for the blunder of wasting the #2 pick that should have been used for drafting Anthony. Instead what was done after was Billips was traded for an over-priced, over the hill, under-sized SG in Iverson, who in effect would be the mentor for Stuckey instead of Billips. Smart move. I also believe the removal of Afflalo from the Pistons roster was to eliminate any viable competition for Stuckey being the poster child of this franchise. Joe Dumars has destroyed a team that did not need blowing up for the sole purpose of making a player perform outside of his natural abilities.

Years off Stuckey's career have been wasted by Joe's stubborn neglect, and I can't help but wonder, at this point, where would Stuckey have been drafted if not for Joe? There are many who feel that Stuckey should be given a chance to fit in here, no matter what, but that is wrong; his career may be better served elsewhere as he wouldn't have that sense of undesreved entitlement, and would work much harder at being a complete player. A SG is dangerous all over the floor, not just bulling their way to the rim and trying to finish.

deusXango you can't change history although a lot of people are motivated to do it. You have stated the exact truth about this subject. At the time of that draft, I also wondered exactly where Stuckey would have been drafted and thought he was a second rounder. But I was happy that Dumars drafted Affalo and couldn't believe it when Dumars destroyed the Pistons by making so many mistakes just to try to prove that Stuckey was the MAN when he clearly showed how many flaws he had before the Billups trade was made and Affalo was sent packing. One additional thing had to happen to keep the lid from blowing and that was the fact that Dumars had to fire Flip Saunders and hire his best friend, Michael Curry to coach the team. Flip knew that Stuckey could not replace Billups or any other leader on the Piston team. And Flip liked what Affalo brought to the team and knew Affalo was a real quality piece in the rebuilding plan.

One final thought regarding the idea that a mistake was made with Stuckey regarding not developing him at the 2 guard rather than point guard. Stuckey is only effective with the ball in his hands. He is not as motivated as a guy like Hamilton or say Reggie Miller in working on his shot or moving hard without the ball to get open. I have watched Stuckey a lot this season playing the 2 guard and he does a lot of standing on offense and doesn't try to get open when the offense breaks down. I used to call players like that Cigar Store Indians because they play like a statue at times on offense. Where Hamilton, at Stuckey's age was in constant motion on offense and could get his deadly jump shot off very quickly, Stuckey has done nothing to improve his release on his shot or learn how to move well without the basketball. Stuckey is still head and shoulders better than his competition on this current team other than Brandon Knight and I will pull for him to get better but it is a shame that Joe Dumars was in charge before the draft that you mentioned. We could have obtained a quality big that year. And of course we could have kept Amir Johnson as well. Why draft a 18 year old guy like Johnson and go though all the painful development years and then let him go to get a slug like Charlie V? Dumars clearly has no clue at times and he only keeps his job because he was a good player for the Pistons.

[Sebastian]

What about getting Kahn on the phone and offering OUR 2012 #1 pick for Derrick Williams?

Sebastian, what is it about this years pick that you seem to hate so much? Whatever play you want to go after, and they're good players, you always seem to want to part with our first round pick; possibly the best we've had in years and one that Monroe and Knight need the powers that be use wisely.

deusXango, I think that WE currently have three commodities: Knight, Monroe, and the 2012 1st Pick.

Knight and Monroe are sacred cows. The 2012 1st Pick in its current state is more hope and promise than a tangible product. I think that WE should use it to OUR advantage, if WE can, by swindling a player who is a more known quantity.

I also agree that OUR roster is in need of PF/C of real substance. Perhaps, WE can get that player in the free agency in the person of JaVele McGee or Roy Hibbert.

But, link many others have observed WE are also without a sho-nuf' SF. Derrick Williams could possibly feel that void, if the T-Wolves are interested in swapping him for OUR 2012 1st Round Pick.

In Williams, WE would be acquiring a young stud, who is only one year removed from college and who is NBA-ready, now.

Joe needs to get crackin' and begin fixing OUR roster, sooner rather than later.

Additionally, Joe needs to offer Maxey, Daye, the rights to Kyle Singler for Hasheem Thabeet and Terrance Williams.

Just my opinion.

[cool breeze]

@Fly & Wise - Are you joking???

Madonna did look great, but can't they do better for the Super Bowl? Did Gaga have a previous engagement?

BTW, I do LOVE Madonna's music, she's a singularly special artist(and Ho of course).

One of my albolute favorites is Material Girl! One of the few times she looks super elegant.

Oracle thanks for the Madonna entertainment. I knew her before she moved to New York when she was a wild, crazy but extremely talented and creative young gal in Rochester, Mich. Visited her in NY after she got settled as well before the fame. It was wild to see her perform in the Super Bowl although that was not the real Madonna on that stage. She seemed restrained. That gal sure works hard to stay in shape. My bet is that she might work harder at it then some of our Piston players. Thanks!

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