mcgee, from a washington perspective...

[frankied]

I was telling my wife, just yesterday, that Flip will be fired this week. I also believe that Dantoni will be fired this week, too, maybe tonight if the Knicks find a way to lose to the Bobcats.

some of the wizards players, like mcgee just might be available, also.
there is a lot of chatter about dumping mcgee, who apparently is an extremely low IQ player.
i'd still take a shot at him, if he was available, simply based on his potential, which is substantial.
but the idea of trading lottery picks for him is laughable.
check out what folks who have seen him play his entire career have to say.
the money quote:
"Just based on the numbers, McGee is more than a keeper. He’s someone the Wizards should build around.
But this isn’t fantasy basketball.
In the NBA, you actually have to know how to play to help your team win, and it seems that part doesn’t interest McGee as much as the highlight-tape stuff. After playing in almost 230 games, there’s no way McGee should still be so ineffective at pick-and-roll defense. His head isn’t in the game nearly enough."

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Murph]

If he's available, the Pistons should go after him. Washington Wizards fans blaming McGee for losing is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about John Wall. He's on the same losing team. In fact, as a PG, Wall is probably more responsible for the Wizards losing than McGee. So do they want to dump Wall also? I didn't think so.

If you want to draft Harrison Barnes?...fine.

But Joe should at least try to get McGee, if he's available. His numbers are terrific. (And personally, I couldn't care less if he threw himself and alley-oop, and Flip Saunders didn't like it.)

[merc]

The Tigers signed Prince Fielder... 9 years for 214 Mil... 38 Hr... 120 RBI... .299 avg .

That's some serious punch... I guess Mr. I believes the time is NOW

edit... sorry sissy didn't see you posted this... impressive spending huh?

[Sebastian]

The Ilitch's will be paying Cecil's son a pretty penny. Are WE to assume that if the Ilitch's would have purchased the Pistons that WE would have top flight acquisitions on OUR roster, too?

It is looking like Gores is going to be scared to spend a little dough on the roster going forward.

[frankied]

If he's available, the Pistons should go after him. Washington Wizards fans blaming McGee for losing is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about John Wall. He's on the same losing team. In fact, as a PG, Wall is probably more responsible for the Wizards losing than McGee. So do they want to dump Wall also? I didn't think so.

If you want to draft Harrison Barnes?...fine.

But Joe should at least try to get McGee, if he's available. His numbers are terrific. (And personally, I couldn't care less if he threw himself and alley-oop, and Flip Saunders didn't like it.)

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.
getting blinded by numbers, especially those attained with a losing team is not smart. i definitely recall lots of posters that were thrilled when CV was signed, and those posters all talked about how wonderful his numbers were for a young big man. those of us who'd actually watched him play said screw the numbers, the guy is a bum.
history has shown which group was right.
mcgee is definitely someone who is worth a gamble.
however, the idea of giving up a high lottery pick on a guy like him is ridiculous.
i'd trade tay for him...i'd trade a mid-first round pick for him.
no way, no how, i'd trade a top ten pick for him.
and again, the idea that you should just ignore what reasonable observers say about the guy - especially when it is confirmed by stuff that happens on court - is amazing.
read the washington blogs and papers on the wizards. everyone has the same opinion about him.
certainly a chance of scenery might help him and it's worth exploring. but to simply assign any criticism of him to disgruntled fans flies in the face of what has been happening on the court.

[Sebastian]

If he's available, the Pistons should go after him. Washington Wizards fans blaming McGee for losing is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about John Wall. He's on the same losing team. In fact, as a PG, Wall is probably more responsible for the Wizards losing than McGee. So do they want to dump Wall also? I didn't think so.

If you want to draft Harrison Barnes?...fine.

But Joe should at least try to get McGee, if he's available. His numbers are terrific. (And personally, I couldn't care less if he threw himself and alley-oop, and Flip Saunders didn't like it.)

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.
getting blinded by numbers, especially those attained with a losing team is not smart. i definitely recall lots of posters that were thrilled when CV was signed, and those posters all talked about how wonderful his numbers were for a young big man. those of us who'd actually watched him play said screw the numbers, the guy is a bum.
history has shown which group was right.
mcgee is definitely someone who is worth a gamble.
however, the idea of giving up a high lottery pick on a guy like him is ridiculous.
i'd trade tay for him...i'd trade a mid-first round pick for him.
no way, no how, i'd trade a top ten pick for him.
and again, the idea that you should just ignore what reasonable observers say about the guy - especially when it is confirmed by stuff that happens on court - is amazing.
read the washington blogs and papers on the wizards. everyone has the same opinion about him.
certainly a chance of scenery might help him and it's worth exploring. but to simply assign any criticism of him to disgruntled fans flies in the face of what has been happening on the court.

How about Daye and Macklin for McGee?

[frankied]

If he's available, the Pistons should go after him. Washington Wizards fans blaming McGee for losing is ridiculous. You could say the same thing about John Wall. He's on the same losing team. In fact, as a PG, Wall is probably more responsible for the Wizards losing than McGee. So do they want to dump Wall also? I didn't think so.

If you want to draft Harrison Barnes?...fine.

But Joe should at least try to get McGee, if he's available. His numbers are terrific. (And personally, I couldn't care less if he threw himself and alley-oop, and Flip Saunders didn't like it.)

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.
getting blinded by numbers, especially those attained with a losing team is not smart. i definitely recall lots of posters that were thrilled when CV was signed, and those posters all talked about how wonderful his numbers were for a young big man. those of us who'd actually watched him play said screw the numbers, the guy is a bum.
history has shown which group was right.
mcgee is definitely someone who is worth a gamble.
however, the idea of giving up a high lottery pick on a guy like him is ridiculous.
i'd trade tay for him...i'd trade a mid-first round pick for him.
no way, no how, i'd trade a top ten pick for him.
and again, the idea that you should just ignore what reasonable observers say about the guy - especially when it is confirmed by stuff that happens on court - is amazing.
read the washington blogs and papers on the wizards. everyone has the same opinion about him.
certainly a chance of scenery might help him and it's worth exploring. but to simply assign any criticism of him to disgruntled fans flies in the face of what has been happening on the court.

How about Daye and Macklin for McGee?

sure, i'd do that in a minute. it would work for both teams.

[Rett]

saw this one coming......

[Flip]

The Ilitch's will be paying Cecil's son a pretty penny. Are WE to assume that if the Ilitch's would have purchased the Pistons that WE would have top flight acquisitions on OUR roster, too?

It is looking like Gores is going to be scared to spend a little dough on the roster going forward.

yeah, its looking like Ilitch might've been the better owner for us. Willing to spend, knows how to win championships, is at an age that he wouldnt have wanted to wait to win, etc.

Gores might prove good, but he doesn't have any exp and no track record, so its all a guessing game how he will do with the Pistons.

[Murph]

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.

I trust the opinions of journalists even less than the fans. For example, if you believe Detroit's jounalists, you'd be under the impression that Hamilton was mostly responsible for last years collapse of the Pistons. Ridiculous.

So if the WaPo jounalists are trying to blame the disasterous state of the Wizards on McGee, again...who cares? Maybe Vince Goodwill's brother writes for the Post?

But I agree with you. McGee is definitely worth acquiring.

[cool breeze]

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.

I trust the opinions of journalists even less than the fans. For example, if you believe Detroit's jounalists, you'd be under the impression that Hamilton was mostly responsible for last years collapse of the Pistons. Ridiculous.

So if the WaPo jounalists are trying to blame the disasterous state of the Wizards on McGee, again...who cares? Maybe Vince Goodwill's brother writes for the Post?

But I agree with you. McGee is definitely worth acquiring.

Everyone seems to be on the McGee bandwagon. This all started a few weeks ago so I have been watching him play for about that same period of time. I don't get it. I am not excited about McGee. He does nothing for me which is how most of the fans on the team he is now representing are feeling about him. I suggest that some of you start watching McGee play especially in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter of games if you subscrib to PASS. He is big and that is the only thing that I can say about him that is positive. He looks like he has no idea as to what going on doesn't appear to be too frustrated about stinking it up. We sure need a big guy who can take up space. But McGee doesn't get back very quick in transistion. He reminded me of Charlie V. We need a high energy player. We have had enough stiffs who didn't work out. There is no way in hell that anyone should suggest that we give up a number one pick for this guy. The game is changing. Look at the Thunder. Those players move at a different speed than most players and most teams. Guys like McGee, who are not interested in getting in top physical shape, will not not improve any team. There is something wrong mentally with McGee. Do we want to suffer watching another slug in a Piston uniform. The Pistons need to lose games and somehow get lucky and grab a really high pick. Then we will have another quality player to build a contending team with. I now think that this might be Joe Dumars new plan. Once upon a time. Dumars didn't think it was smart to build a team with solid draft picks and that is why he has damaged the team so badly. No really good player wants to play for the Pistons right now when they look at the other players who they will have to play with. Dumars needs to somehow remove most of the players under contract now and get draft picks in return. Stack them up and take our chances with young guys coming out of college with something to prove. Maybe we can get some players like The Thunder. I hope Oklahoma wins the championship this season!

[cool breeze]

I have watched Leonard twice now. He is 7 feet tall, seems to be a smart player, and looks as if he can add weight and strength in a short time. He is a real center who has a good attitude. This is why I believe Dumars needs to trade as many players as possible to try to land another two picks for this draft. Leonard might not be drafted until late in the first round. It is doubtful that he will not be chosen before the 2nd round. Anyone have any feelings on this guy?

[Sparma]

Super exciting! Not in the mood for Drew Sharp-style negative analysis now. Playoffs, here we come. Heartbreak by way of the Yankees this year? Doesn't seem like the worse thing yet when we're alll sitting at 0-0. A WS victory after 28 years?

[frankied]

it is not fans who are blaming mcgee. its journalists who have watched him play for his entire career.

I trust the opinions of journalists even less than the fans. For example, if you believe Detroit's jounalists, you'd be under the impression that Hamilton was mostly responsible for last years collapse of the Pistons. Ridiculous.

So if the WaPo jounalists are trying to blame the disasterous state of the Wizards on McGee, again...who cares? Maybe Vince Goodwill's brother writes for the Post?

But I agree with you. McGee is definitely worth acquiring.

you cannot generalize about journalists, especially if you are basing that generalization on detroit sportswriters. as i've said plenty of times, detroit sportswriters are the worst i've ever come across.
a culture that started with joe falls, and continued with mitch albom, has endured for decades. that culture essentially gives a pass to teams and coaches and has basically allowed prominent figures to completely avoid accountability. it certainly isn't that way in other cities.
in portland, writers routinely question each and every move the blazers make. read the oregonian's blazers' section. the GMs appear at least once a week on local talk radio stations, often taking calls from listeners. even though mcmillan has been very successful and has had to deal with all kinds of catastrophic injuries - brandon roy, oden - the papers routinely question whether he should keep his job.
the washington papers have been similarly tough on the wizards. if you read them regularly - and i read the post every day - you see that they are extremely tough and critical about each and every decision made by coaches and players and management.
they've dragged blatche and young and mcgee and even john wall over the coals, about various matters. you won't see dozens of articles about the wonders of their athletic trainer. the post writer who wrote the article i linked to is somewhat infamous in washington for referring to what the wizards are doing as "tomfoolery".
again, you have to make judgments individually about writers and sports journalism environments, based on what actually happens.
most importantly, what the writers are writing is absolutely true, as anyone with eyes can see. it is not as though the writers are writing things that are obviously untrue, or hiding things - as happens in detroit. if you read his columns and watch the wizards, he's right.
mcgee does some spectacular things. but he is also a horrible pick and roll defender, which really hurts the wizards defense.
that is the reality of the situation. can he improve? maybe. is it worth acquiring him to determine if he can improve? sure.
but why on earth would anyone pay a caviar price for a player who is being tossed away, after proving that he had serious fundamental problems.
it would be similar to someone giving detroit a top 5 pick for austin daye, based on their belief that he was going to turn into a 20 point a game scorer.
if i'm detroit, i love it, but why would any smart organization do that?

[Oracle]

saw this one coming......

Ray charles saw this one coming, and he's blind and dead!

[deusXango]

I have watched Leonard twice now. He is 7 feet tall, seems to be a smart player, and looks as if he can add weight and strength in a short time. He is a real center who has a good attitude. This is why I believe Dumars needs to trade as many players as possible to try to land another two picks for this draft. Leonard might not be drafted until late in the first round. It is doubtful that he will not be chosen before the 2nd round. Anyone have any feelings on this guy?

Already posted my thoughts on Mr. Leonard and others who would benefit this team earlier. Guess you missed it Don, but the good news is, you've been watching the college game and have an appreciative eye for collegiate talent.

[Oracle]

The Tigers signed Prince Fielder... 9 years for 214 Mil... 38 Hr... 120 RBI... .299 avg .

That's some serious punch... I guess Mr. I believes the time is NOW

edit... sorry sissy didn't see you posted this... impressive spending huh?

Wise hates athletes to get large sums of greenbacks, moolah, duckets, samoleans!

[Oracle]

I was telling my wife, just yesterday, that Flip will be fired this week. I also believe that Dantoni will be fired this week, too, maybe tonight if the Knicks find a way to lose to the Bobcats.

I really think they need to fire Dantoni!

For some reason, he strikes me as a doofus that looked good because he had the great Steve Nash feeding a long line of great athletes.

For Dantoni, no Nash like guard, no success!

[frankied]

the column below was in a the Washington City Paper. the situation sounds very much like what is going on here in detroit. but is there a single detroit writer who would say that it is time for new management, as this writer does, in reference to a failed GM?
this is an example of the difference in writers in other cities. by the way, washington papers are dogging grunfield because he has had to fire 2 coaches. how many has joe hired and fired?

The Wizards Meet the New Boss

On Tuesday afternoon, Washington Wizards team president Ernie Grunfeld fired Flip Saunders, the only coach he’s officially hired during his eight-plus seasons in D.C., after a 2-15 start to this season and a 31-125 cumulative record over Saunders’ tenure with the team. “We felt the team had become unresponsive,” Grunfeld stated in a press release the team put out announcing the move. During a press conference later in the afternoon, touting the promotion of assistant coach Randy Wittman to the top job, Grunfeld reiterated his talking point—several times. For the Wizards, it was “time for a different voice," after nearly three years of Saunders.

But this isn’t the high school debate team, it’s basketball. And firing Saunders is like applying cream to a single zit on a face full of acne, or whatever salve you want to put on a minuscule, perhaps irrelevant, part of a larger problem. Make no mistake, coaching is huge in basketball, but Washington’s issues derive from Grunfeld’s foundation of players. And as far as that different voice? The entire coaching staff remains intact; only Flip is being paid to leave (his four-year, $18 million contract runs through the 2012-13 season). Lucky him.

“We are kind of polar opposites,” said new coach Wittman of his style in comparison to Saunders, when asked what would really change. With that, Wittman cemented the impression that Saunders is not a fiery type of leader, that he was one better suited to a unit of ready veterans, not youthful knuckleheads like the bunch that occupies the home locker room at Verizon Center nowadays. Wittman has been the enforcer, often seen yelling at said knuckleheads. i.e., JaVale McGee, during practice and games. It’s not often players tune out a coaching staff only to have team management remove the subdued head while promoting the yeller. If the players weren’t listening already, what now?

"I would’ve walked with [Flip] if I didn’t believe this team could be better than we are,” said Wittman, conveying ignorance of the need for more drastic adjustment.

But the team's real issue is with personnel, the cover model for Inept Employment Magazine being Andray Blatche. Firing the head coach was simply the easiest change to make; if that’s all owner Ted Leonsis does, though, he continues to do his team a great disservice. Blatche is the antithesis of Leonsis' announced plan of rebuilding with toughness. Nick Young is a one-dimensional offensive player with a mean selfish streak. Player development under Grunfeld has been subpar, in general, but getting rid of those two specifically would go a long way toward improving things.

Grunfeld, growing ornery toward the end of the press conference as the media peppered him with questions about his own job security, admitted that everyone is responsible, while also trying to absolve himself from blame, alluding to problems caused by Gilbert Arenas and guns. He also talked up his young players, beaming with false confidence in the future—see how much better these other zits look now that I’ve cleared this one?!

“Just because you're losing, you're not a loser,” was Grunfeld’s final sentence before the show came to an abrupt end. Washington’s resume with Grunfeld at the helm: 266 wins, 407 losses, four playoff appearances, just eight playoff wins.

Time for a different voice? Time for new management.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[frankied]

this is from cbs's power rankings, done by matt moore.
there is the current date, then the current ranking and then the previous ranking. it is followed by a comment.

01/24/2012 28 28
The Pistons are infuriating because they'll play well for a game, or a quarter, and then simply nose-dive into failure just when you start to think there's some competency there.

01/17/2012 28 28
Greg Monroe deserves better than this.

01/10/2012 28 24
(Matt stares at the lineup data. ... Matt pounds his head against his desk.)

01/03/2012 24 28
They're playing better by going with the veterans, which makes them worse in the long run.

12/27/2011 28 22
If you happen to see the broad side of barn, don't bother pointing it out to the Pistons. They can't hit it anyway.

12/20/2011 22 23
What a great young core. Which is why it's soooo, um, GREAT they gave Rodney Stuckey and Tayshaun Prince $14 million a year.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Grizz]

[quote="frankied"]this is from cbs's power rankings, done by matt moore.
there is the current date, then the current ranking and then the previous ranking. it is followed by a comment.

01/24/2012 28 28
The Pistons are infuriating because they'll play well for a game, or a quarter, and then simply nose-dive into failure just when you start to think there's some competency there.

01/17/2012 28 28
Greg Monroe deserves better than this.

01/10/2012 28 24
(Matt stares at the lineup data. ... Matt pounds his head against his desk.)

01/03/2012 24 28
They're playing better by going with the veterans, which makes them worse in the long run.

Frankie .. thank you for posting on how other sports reporters actually report the news about their team and ask questions that get to the truth .. No such luck here . .and if you challenge any of them, as you and I and others have .. all you get is BS and 0% willing to see another point of view .. Things will change here someday .. not yet .. Take any day and you will see at least 1 ridiculously slanted piece meant to protect Joe Dumars from the repercussions of any of his bad moves .. Strongly reminds (infuriates) me of the relationship between just about all MSM and just about all our leaders in Washington ..

[Grizz]

Austin Daye made his first three-pointer of the season in scoring nine points in nearly 20 minutes. A 40% shooter last season, Daye is 1-for-17 on the season.

Still say this is because of too many nights of Russian vodka and prostitutes ..

[Sissy1946]

Now I know it's going to happen here, Jelly-Filled Joe will be a small varmit heading off into the sunset soon, it can happen. Iam now a happy tiger fan & now want to be a happy Piston fan, when is Joe leaving? Anyone have a guess? Iam calling for his resignation immediately.

[Oracle]

Frankie, that was a great find.

I truly wish someone in this town had the courage and conviction to write an article like that!

Also, I was surprised at how Whittman seemed so cluless! It's not like he hasn't played basketball all of his life, with Zeke no less, and in the backcourt with Doc Rivers & Spud Webb, so he should know basketball.

How in the world does he think he can do much better with the personnel he has?

BTW, McGee is a knucklehead, but IMO, he would change if the environment was better. I'm not sure we offer that environment, but as long as Big Ben is here, he would have a decent mentor.

That's the ONLY reason I don't get on Joe too bad about keeping Ben on the payroll, I just wish it was with a clipboard.

[Oracle]

Press the mute button the next time Steven Tyler sings the National Anthem!

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