Re: FORUM

[Sebastian]

Seb, I would LOVE to get Nate, but I doubt we can land him. This Piston coaching position is NOT a prized job for a couple of reasons.

First, the team is way too raw, and losses will pile up like Lil Larry droppings.

Secondly, any coach that hasn't been under a rock the last 10 years, knows that coaching in Detroit is a risky and short lived activity with Joe at the helm. This is probably the biggest reason to get rid of Joe, because it resets our ability to throw out the past, and start developing a better reputation.

Wise, that was a very good list, and if there EVER was a time to play Daye/CV, that was the time/game!

I actually think that they would have had a good chance to win, because prior to that game, the Lakers were mentally ready to lose if the going got too rough. We let them off the hook too easily.

I always believe that if you don't forcefully make your case to win, you're probably going to lose. The Pistons folded in the first quarter(the starters, not the bench).

Oracle, you're right, Nate would never consider working under Joe and he shouldn't.

[Sebastian]

Lil Larry reminds me a some corporate number crunching guy where in theory shit should work and brown nosing the boss is just office politics and concept of intangibles just don't exist. Lil Larry can't think outside the box.

1. It was a no brainer to start Drummond and Monroe......Lil Larry didn't
2. Gee what a perfect time to try that Daye at SG thing again.....Lil Larry didn't
3. Hey lets play CV see if he can pull Gasol or Howard out of the paint....Lil Larry didn't
4. Excuse me Big Ukrainian Guy can you go foul Howard 6 times really hard.....Lil Larry didn't
5. Hey I bet if I play Prince at Point Foward, and stay big all night this would confuse the hell out of the Coach Brown....Lil Larry

There were so many direction Lil Larry could have went yesterday. I'm not saying they would have won, but he sure would have been thinking outside the box...

Wise, you're right, L. Frank, never does anything differently. He continues to force the most non-athletic collection of Pistons to start games and his rotations have no purpose.

But, your post touches on a serious matter ... Charlie V. and Daye are not great options to refer to but, together they and the Ukraine represent 3/13 of the roster and close to 20% of the salary cap, but can't find there way onto the floor in a game where OUR starters were outscore 29 to 27, but Dwight Howard, alone.

L. Frank is a loser, plain and simple.

[Murph]

At least Lil Larry isn't letting Austin Daye or Charlie V see the light of day. At least that's a good thing.

Also, Lil Larry has been giving consistant minutes to 3 rookies off the bench...Drummond, Singler and English. No previous Pistons coach that I can ever remember has been brave enough to include 3 rookies in their regular rotation...ever

Also, when most of us have been complaining about the starting line-up, it's been directed toward the fact that MiniMax is starting ahead of Drummond. But MiniMax hasn't really been the problem; he's actually been playing ok. The real problem has been our guard play, specifically Stuckey and Knight. Very few of us have been calling for anyone to start besided Stuckey and Knight. Unfortunately, Stuckey can't throw the ball into the ocean right now, and Knight is still a turnover machine. I guess Lil Larry could bench Stuckey and start English, but that move might create even more problems.

Just playing the devil's advocate...

[Murph]

I guess Lil Larry could slide Knight over the the SG position, where he might be better suited, start Bynum (who's actually been playing ok) at the point, and bring Stuckey off the bench to back up Bynum and Knight.

Or better yet, Lil Larry could slide Knight over to the SG position, and Joe could acquire a real veteran, pass first PG to run the offense.


But most likely, Lil Larry will stick with his starting backcourt of Knight and Stuckey, hope Stuck finds his shot, and hope Knight eventually leans how to take care of the ball...and muddle through, at least for this season.

[WTF]

At least Lil Larry isn't letting Austin Daye or Charlie V see the light of day. At least that's a good thing.

Also, Lil Larry has been giving consistant minutes to 3 rookies off the bench...Drummond, Singler and English. No previous Pistons coach that I can ever remember has been brave enough to include 3 rookies in their regular rotation...ever

Also, when most of us have been complaining about the starting line-up, it's been directed toward the fact that MiniMax is starting ahead of Drummond. But MiniMax hasn't really been the problem; he's actually been playing ok. The real problem has been our guard play, specifically Stuckey and Knight. Very few of us have been calling for anyone to start besided Stuckey and Knight. Unfortunately, Stuckey can't throw the ball into the ocean right now, and Knight is still a turnover machine. I guess Lil Larry could bench Stuckey and start English, but that move might create even more problems.

Just playing the devil's advocate...

Come on Murph! what previous coach actually had three rookies good to play meaninful minutes? That's not really something to go cheering about as if Lil Larry just discovery the meaning of life. All three games have been poorly coached and the rotation of players have sucked, game plan has sucked, and team effort sucked. Just because these three rookies are getting PT doesn't mean they are properly being utilized or given the best opportunity to make things happen.

Not playing CV in the Lakers game was not a good thing Murph (don't be blinded by that hatred of CV) The fact that 8 million sits on the bench speaks badly of both Joe and Frank. JMax has been in the league 9 years and his best season was 5 years ago he should be equally dismissed as many of you have dismissed CV.

I agree our guard play sucks, I assume the reason no one screaming for Stuckey and Knights head is because eventually Stuckey will firgure it out and Knight will eventually recieve the tough love and coaching he needs. The truth is Bynum is the source of much of the issue because we should be rotating 4 damn guards in a game unless injury or foul trouble didtates it.

[WTF]

Here How I'm Voting

YES: On Proposal CV.....This allows CV a minimum of 15 a game
YES: On Proposal LL......This is for the immediate firing of Lil Larry
YES: On Proposal J........This is for the immediate replacement of Fat Joe
NO: On Proposal BB......Come On! For Real! A Bobby Brown Half-Time

[Murph]

On Joe, the reason I wouldn't replace him for a bad coach is that Joe didn't pick or want this coach! If it was his coach, I'd feel differently.

Oracle...you make a great point. Joe wanted to hire Mike Woodson, not Lil Larry. Woodson is looking like a Coach of the Year candidate in New York right now. And Lil Larry?...not so much. That one was pretty predictable, based on their track records.

Wise...if we're looking for Charlie V and Autin Daye to come in and save the bacon...then we have problems far greater than just a bad coach. Has it gotten so bad that we're calling for Daye and CV??? Never! Steady Pistons fans.

[Grizz2]

Frank: "Everybody should be able to play and compete. If you don't play with maximum effort, you shouldn't start or come off the bench. That's the job description."

Not a word about bad weak veterans, poor strategy or player match ups or poor preparation by the head coach .. or even execution (comes to close to blaming the head coach) No .. the Detroit Pistons are losing because their players are not trying hard enough ...

I swear I could take losing much better if any or all of these things happened:

(1) The Detroit News would do more than just mouth the words they are taught by Frank and Dumars ..
(2) Frank would take some blame for the Pistons looking so ridiculously bad ..
(3) There was a system where young player development took precedent over vets getting theirs ....

[WTF]

On Joe, the reason I wouldn't replace him for a bad coach is that Joe didn't pick or want this coach! If it was his coach, I'd feel differently.

Oracle...you make a great point. Joe wanted to hire Mike Woodson, not Lil Larry. Woodson is looking like a Coach of the Year candidate in New York right now. And Lil Larry?...not so much. That one was pretty predictable, based on their track records.

Wise...if we're looking for Charlie V and Autin Daye to come in and save the bacon...then we have problems far greater than just a bad coach. Has it gotten so bad that we're calling for Daye and CV??? Never! Steady Pistons fans.

Murph I was only advocating to play Daye (going big in the Lakers game) in one game. Now I might be the minority on this but I would much rather have CV playing then JMax. Hate on his defense all you like but you can't argue a 15pt a game average sitting on the bench. Jmax is not Ben Wallce and JMax hasn't done anything that warrant that he should be starting and getting PT ahead of JJ, CV, or Drummond.

[Oracle]

Murph, there's another PG option: Switch Stuckey & Knight!

It brings us back to what worked at the end of last year, and positions both players are more comfortable with. Then slowly let Knight take over the PG duties, because he isn't going to be able to handle it any time soon.

Stuckey isn't a PG, but he's a better PG than Knight right now!

Wise, you're not too far off! I don't know if I want CV starting, but since Maxiell is only good for about 10 minutes anyway, CV certainly can handle the remaining minutes we force Maxiell to play(badly).

I see no logic in sitting Daye or CV at this point, but we'll see how many losses Frank can pile up and blame on someone else.

[cool breeze]

Murph, there's another PG option: Switch Stuckey & Knight!

It brings us back to what worked at the end of last year, and positions both players are more comfortable with. Then slowly let Knight take over the PG duties, because he isn't going to be able to handle it any time soon.

Stuckey isn't a PG, but he's a better PG than Knight right now!

Wise, you're not too far off! I don't know if I want CV starting, but since Maxiell is only good for about 10 minutes anyway, CV certainly can handle the remaining minutes we force Maxiell to play(badly).

I see no logic in sitting Daye or CV at this point, but we'll see how many losses Frank can pile up and blame on someone else.

I am a bit puzzled by these comments. Both Daye and Charlie V looked horrible in pre season games. Daye found out that even the pre season was a lot different than the bogus summer league games played in that small gym. Daye got his ass beat trying to fit in at power forward. So we already know that he cannot defend anyone playing the 2 or 3. Do we want to play another horrible defender who is worse than the players already in the rotation? And Daye could not score in this pre season as well. As for Charlie, nothing has changed. Did you watch him run in the pre season games? He cannot run. He shuffles down the court. And Charlie couldn't hit the broad side of a barn this pre season in any position on the floor. If you want change, then try Middleton. He can at least defend and run the court fast. If Detroit's big adjustment is to involve Daye and Charlie in the rotation, then the Pistons goose is cooked for sure. The organization needs to start thinking about which players could ever compete against other teams if by chance the Pistons ever make the playoffs again. Does anyone really believe that Charlie or Austin could defend or hold their own against any players on playoff teams? In fact do any of you believe that Maxiell could do any better in the playoffs then he did the last time the Pistons made the playoffs and played against Cleveland? Maxiell was pitiful just as Daye was trying to play power forward in this pre season.

[cool breeze]

First off, what is this nonsense Frank is spouting in the Detroit News article about bringing energy? This comment was just as insane as the one Frank made after the previous loss before the ass kicking by the Lakers. In that post game comment, Frank said he was impressed with the point guard play. In that game, the point guards, Knight and Bynum looked horrible. They couldn't set up the offense if there really is a offense on this team other than street ball offense. I think the problem with the point guards is the other players they are playing with. Nobody is really a threat to the opposition. Does any team actually have a game plan set up to stop even one of the players in the starting unit. I don't see many double teams. No the starters are easy to guard. That means the point guards have to do a lot of dribbling while trying to find an opening or even one player they can pass the basketball to before the shot clock expires. The starters cannot make outside shots. The defense can defend the paint. This is a simple game that Frank is attempting to make into some complex thing. Maybe that is because he never was able to play the game himself. The reason for the poor showing of the starting unit for every game so far this season is not because of lack of effort. The problem is lack of chemistry between the players and lack of ability to compete with better NBA players. The other players are just more physically gifted athletic type players at the skill positions. And then we have Jason Maxiell who is attempting to play against strong 7 footers. But we are fine and this is just a bump in the road according to Mr. Frank. He got nothing from this past game. Frank still thinks that Maxiell can be effective against any playoff caliber team playing power forward. It is time for Mr. Gores to step in. He must fire Joe Dumars because Joe believes that Maxiell played a great game against the Lakers as well. It would not have made any difference in that game if Stuckey and Knight had scored 30 points each in that game. The Lakers rested their big men most of the game. If they had wanted to, the Lakers could have beaten Detroit by over 50 points. The Lakers players were not even playing hard in that game. And this Piston coach is not in a panic mode. That is pure denial. If the coach wants to be fair to the players, then he needs to admit that Kim English should be starting as it isn't even close as to who has played the best basketball, English or Stuckey. In fact, so far, it is clear that Stuckey should not even be in the rotation. So Mr. Frank, you believe in defense first. You said that you wanted to play the best defenders to set the tone that Detroit has strong character tough people so our team should mimic the people. Do you call this group of starters good defenders and tough minded type players? Stuckey has never been that type of player. He is a West coast scorer who never played any defense before arriving in Detroit. Dumars hand picked players in the past who were extremely weak defenders. He signed Charlie V and Ben Gordon who were among the worst defenders in the league.

Another reason to fire Dumars and bring in Laimbeer as the GM would be the fact that Chase Budinger is playing great basketball this season for the T Wolves. If none of you watched this last game in their win, it was Budinger and another new Russian guard who made key baskets in crunch time. Budinger scored 16 points in all and was dead eye when it counted. This is the way he has played in every game so far. Meanwhile, Joe Dumars dismissed Budinger after drafting him because he didn't want to cause too much competition between his new ace first rounder, Austin Daye and the other loser Piston guards at the time. So Chase never had the opportunity to play against any of the Piston guards in practice. Anyone who had followed the college games when Budinger and Daye played knew that Budinger made a fool of Daye in their meetings. We had a McDonalds All American co MVP on the Piston team and Joe Dumars gave him away.

[deusXango]

While Houston is a mile high and full of themselves, with the plum they got in James Harden, trade for their FA Scott Machado; an unused PG who couldn't possibly do worse than Knight, Bynum, or Stuckey, when it comes to running an uptempo offense. This is a strong, pass first, PG, who sees the floor very well; his potential is through the roof, compared to our guards, and as yet, there is no offensive scheme being imployed by this coaching staff.

"Slide" Knight over to SG, as he has proven to be a better investment there than Stuckey, and continue to give English quality minutes off the bench; slide Stuckey's ass out of town, if we can. There's no evidence that anyone wants him to be apart of their team other than Joe and the "mindless faithful few" who are still waiting for Stuckey to get it. He's making a career out of trying to get it. In addition to playing English off the bench, play Middleton also, with Prince as our point forward (ahead of Bynum as our PG). If we can play "small ball," why not "tall ball?" Length on the perimeter will make us more formibitable defensively.

Knight is the best "combo guard" on this team (we don't need more than one, truth be told), and playing in the backcourt with Machado should enhance his PG skills over time; these are developing young players, and the sky's the limit. There are some who will personalize my views as an attack on them but, unless your name is Joe Dumars or Lawrence Frank, step off. We're suffering from piss-poor guard play, and the only way to stop it, is make major changes, as soon as possible.

[cool breeze]

While Houston is a mile high and full of themselves, with the plum they got in James Harden, trade for their FA Scott Machado; an unused PG who couldn't possibly do worse than Knight, Bynum, or Stuckey, when it comes to running an uptempo offense. This is a strong, pass first, PG, who sees the floor very well; his potential is through the roof, compared to our guards, and as yet, there is no offensive scheme being imployed by this coaching staff.

"Slide" Knight over to SG, as he has proven to be a better investment there than Stuckey, and continue to give English quality minutes off the bench; slide Stuckey's ass out of town, if we can. There's no evidence that anyone wants him to be apart of their team other than Joe and the "mindless faithful few" who are still waiting for Stuckey to get it. He's making a career out of trying to get it. In addition to playing English off the bench, play Middleton also, with Prince as our point forward (ahead of Bynum as our PG). If we can play "small ball," why not "tall ball?" Length on the perimeter will make us more formibitable defensively.

Knight is the best "combo guard" on this team (we don't need more than one, truth be told), and playing in the backcourt with Machado should enhance his PG skills over time; these are developing young players, and the sky's the limit. There are some who will personalize my views as an attack on them but, unless your name is Joe Dumars or Lawrence Frank, step off. We're suffering from piss-poor guard play, and the only way to stop it, is make major changes, as soon as possible.

dX you have a great idea. But our mindless leaders passed on Machado to protect their pets. This is an ass kissing organization where brown nosing gets you into the rotation especially Bynum, Stuckey and Maxiell. My bet is that Mr. Gores is still steaming from the Laker ass kicking blowout loss and might start reading stuff on this forum and might stop listening to Joe Dumars spin on the state of the Pistons. Prince says that Stuckey needs to handle the basketball to be effective. That means he must play point guard. Is that a crazy statement or not? Stuckey plays the point guard position like Bynum. You are correct, we need a guy like Machado who is a true point guard to get the team to act like a team. Does Joe Dumars somehow believe that he should have been the point guard when he played with Zeke? Can any 2 guard also be an effective point guard? What many others are missing is that Stuckey is a horrible defender even though Vincent Goodwill keeps saying Stuckey is an amazing defender. Who can't score on Stuckey?

[lemonpen]

[quote="cool breeze"]

. Who can't score on Stuckey?

Truth be told, me.

[Murph]

Hey...I was the first one this forum to promote the drafting of Machado (not DX...sorry). And I certainly hope he has a long and productive NBA career.

But the guy has yet to play 1 single minute in the NBA. Nor do we know if he's on the trading block. So to annoint Scott Machado as our starting PG and franchise savior is a little divorced from reality, IMO.

IMO, this team could benifit from a proven, VETERAN, pass first PG to run the offense.

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