Wiseman

[lemonpen]

Ok, so ~56M is allotted for 7 players (Cade, Duren, Thompson, Sasser, Ivey, Grimes. and Stew)

If they resign (I wouldn't pay more than this):
Wiseman 8M - still a project. Would have traded or waived him if there was no resigning
Fournier 6M - my bet is that Troy and Williams like him b/c he is tall and a mismatch
Fontecchio 8M - ????

and they keep:
Milton 5M - can be waived; good price for a vet.
TBJ 4M - can be waived; probably odd man out

That equals 12 players.

If they draft 2 players = 14

If they sign 2 free agents = 16

What do they do with their 3 G-league players? What about Tosan?

Strangely enough Wiseman seems to be in a fairly favorable situation, provided he is willing to work for less $$$.  He's currently the only center-size backup that can play in the paint.  The tall joker we picked up from Washington shrinks with proximity to the hoop.  He releases a 3pt hoist from a higher elevation than a layup.  
It remains to be seen if Mr. MMA (Stewie) is ready for prime time.

FYI:  4-knee-yea is under contract for next year with a club option @ $19M.  If we keep him we must pay him. Set him free, please.

[lemonpen]

Despite Ivey's improvement he remains quite an undermotivated 1 on 1 defender.  He possesses the quickness and strength to be significantly better, and we've seen him have moments of excellence.   Infrequent moments though   .  Ben Mathurin may have done us a tremendous favor by making their AS game matchup personal.  Can't wait to see how JI responds now that pride is on the line.

[lemonpen]

Both of these guys have been around awhile.  Each has played on winning teams, alongside a league MVP.   Yet, neither has distinguished themselves in any form nor stuck.  Neither has even garnered enough interest to yield an average mid-level contract.  I think a favorable comparison for both is Bruce Brown, a guy who in similar circumstances has made himself all that Shake & Troy have not; a proven asset.  

Currently their greatest value to us is keeping our CAP space warm.

[Go Stones!]

Ok, so ~56M is allotted for 7 players (Cade, Duren, Thompson, Sasser, Ivey, Grimes. and Stew)

If they resign (I wouldn't pay more than this):
Wiseman 8M - still a project. Would have traded or waived him if there was no resigning
Fournier 6M - my bet is that Troy and Williams like him b/c he is tall and a mismatch
Fontecchio 8M - ????

and they keep:
Milton 5M - can be waived; good price for a vet.
TBJ 4M - can be waived; probably odd man out

That equals 12 players.

If they draft 2 players = 14

If they sign 2 free agents = 16

What do they do with their 3 G-league players? What about Tosan?

[Murph]

Stones…Good post.  Thank you for that information.  

IMO, Weaver should spend his sizable war chest resigning and extending his own players.  Eventually, it’s going to cost a fortune to extend Ivey, Duren, Grimes, Ausar, Cade, Sasser and Fontecchio.    And then there are cheaper players that need to be brought back also…Milton, Brown and Wiseman.  And Stewart will have to be resigned in 2.5 years.  And our 1st round pick this year is going to cost upwards of $12 million a year.  And what about Umude and Evbuomwan.  Those guys are playing well enough to be brought back and paid.  That all adds up to lot of money.

Let me put it this way.  Instead of signing Tobias Harris to a $40 million a year 3 year contract this late in his career, let’s retain and develop our own players.  

We’ve tanked for 5 years.  For 5 years we’ve gone through a living hell.  Don’t panic and change course now.  We finally, finally have a collection of young, talented, athletic, high IQ players with some experience.  

I would not be opposed to signing a couple of free agent, veteran role players to reasonable short term contracts as a stop-gap measure, but don’t freak out and pay a sh*t load of money to some aging star who’s past his prime, like we did with Blake Griffin.

From Hoopshype - Detroit Pistons:

Shake Milton: No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. The guarantee will increase to full if not waived by June 29, 2024.
Troy Brown: No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. The guarantee will increase to full if not waived by June 30, 2024.


Troy Weaver appeared to have 2 players with extended contracts beyond this year, however, they each are not guaranteed. This allows Troy to evaluate each and keep if needed. Each contract is fairly reasonable. This makes it just the core 4 and Grimes on guaranteed contracts for next year. This is a good position moving forward...but what does Troy do with it?

[Go Stones!]

From Hoopshype - Detroit Pistons:

Shake Milton: No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. The guarantee will increase to full if not waived by June 29, 2024.
Troy Brown: No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. The guarantee will increase to full if not waived by June 30, 2024.


Troy Weaver appeared to have 2 players with extended contracts beyond this year, however, they each are not guaranteed. This allows Troy to evaluate each and keep if needed. Each contract is fairly reasonable. This makes it just the core 4 and Grimes on guaranteed contracts for next year. This is a good position moving forward...but what does Troy do with it?

[Murph]

I think Williams almost has the starting lineup correct. Williams is starting the “core four”, which I agree with, along with Fontechhio. Of course Grimes is out with a nagging injury right now.

When Grimes gets healthy and returns after the All-Star break, I would sub him into the starting lineup for Fontecchio in a 3 guard lineup. I think Williams should start his 5 best players, regardless of position, and I think that over time, it will become clear that Grimes is younger, already better, and has far more potential on both sides of the ball than Fontecchio.

I would also play Sasser, Milton, Brown, Fontecchio, Stewart and even Wiseman extensively off the bench. Williams particularly needs to give Milton, Brown Fontecchio and Wiseman long hard looks in the second half of the season, in order to determine whether or not they should be brought back and/or extended.

At this point it matters less exactly which positions Cade, Ivey and Grimes play. Over time, it will become clear who runs the point best, who is the best spot up shooter, who is best in isolation, etc. Just start your 5 best players, when everyone is healthy.

[Murph]

I see the Pistons are giving Tosan Evbuomwan a look on a 10 day contract.  He’s 6’8, 219 lb, undrafted wing out of Princeton.   He put up 16 pts and 9 rbds per game in 13 G-League games, on shooting splits of 56/39/86.  He seems extremely athletic, with a high BB IQ, and his shooting has improved considerably since college.  

He was Ivy Leaguer player of the year, and lead Princeton to an Ivy League Title and an NCAA Tournament birth, where the Tigers advanced to the Sweet 16 after beating #2 seed Arizona (sorry Don).

Let’s see.

[Murph]

Did Troy deliver a metaphoric SLAP IN THE FACE to our Coach, by waiving his pet project, Hayes, and retaining his fav doghouse resident, Wiseman?  Inquiring minds.......

Lemon…Good point.  I agree.

Did you ever see the movie Money Ball with Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill?  There is a similar situation portrayed in that movie.

Billy Beane is the GM of the Oakland A’s in 2002.  He hires a quant guy from Yale to do statistical analysis on baseball players.  The A’s have a very low payroll and need to acquire cheap, talented, undervalued players.  One of the players Beane acquires is Scott Hatteberg, and Beane wants Hatteberg to play 1B.

But Beane’s manager, Art Howe, is uncooperative.  Beane begs Howe to play Hatteberg at 1B, but Howe refuses, opting instead to play Carlos Peña at 1st.  This argument goes back and forth for a couple of months, until Beane finally can’t take it anymore and trades Peña to the Tigers, just so he can get Pena off the roster, which forces Howe to play Hatteberg at 1st.  Hatteberg goes on to have a successful season and career with the A’s.

I agree with you that Weaver cut Hayes, just so  Williams couldn’t play him anymore.  This doesn’t bode well for Weaver’s and William’s relationship moving forward.

[lemonpen]

I was hoping for more but I'm ok.  
-  Troy replaced two older shooters with two younger shooters who add more D and athleticism.  
-  He has retained 90% of the CAP space. (only Grimes is signed for next year)
-  We have 3 additional 2nd round picks.  

I believe there may be an added benefit to bringing in Grimes and F'takio.  It was presumed all of our cap room would permit Troy to obtain the services of 2 impact players this summer.  Well, we are a small market, midwest, perennial cellar dwelling team, without a pocketful of 1st round picks.  Is $$$ alone enough?  

Insert Caveat:  If Grimes AND F'takio look good enough in our final 30 games ........ , maybe a more realistic offseason haul of 1 impact player, 1 solid role player, along with a top 3 pick will suffice.

[lemonpen]

It's nice to see that some dreams come true. Sasser is panning out (no hyperbole required). He made Hayes AND Morris expendable.
It's no coincidence that he played every 4th quarter and OT minute of our back-to-back W's. His decision making and execution have been on point.
IIDK the limit of his accension but it's becoming clear that we are on our way to having one of the league's best value players. We have his rights for 3 more years at what might eventually become an embarrassingly low contract.

2023-24: $2.6M
2024-25: $2.7M
2025-26: $2.8M club option
2026-27: $5.2M club option
RFA QO $8.1M

[lemonpen]

Did Troy deliver a metaphoric SLAP IN THE FACE to our Coach, by waiving his pet project, Hayes, and retaining his fav doghouse resident, Wiseman? Inquiring minds.......

[Murph]

Good riddance to that brick-laying, cold-cock throwing, lackadaisical time line violating draft bust.  

Killian Hayes holds the distinction of being my least favorite Piston of all time.  


I think it’s safe to say Weaver over-estimated the market for Bojan and Burks (1st round pick?  ) .  

Don’t get me wrong, I love Quintin Grimes.  But the Knicks held out for huge amount of veteran talent for one 25th pick in the draft.  

That said, I still love the trade.

Hopefully, Bojan and Burks will help propel the Knicks to the ECFs with their shooting off the bench, and Grimes will be our starting SG for many years to come.


My depth chart looks like this:

Ivey, Sasser
Grimes, Milton
Cunningham, Fontechio/Brown
Ausar, Stewart, Fontecchio
Duren, Stewart, Wiseman


Can you imagine how good the starting lineup of Ivey, Grimes, Cade, Ausar and Duren will eventually become?  

That’s an amazing collection of highly skilled, athletic, high IQ young talent. And add to that this year’s lottery pick.

I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Sparma]

No more need to check on updates obsessively, with at least as much fear as hope.

I'm feeling pretty good about the set of transactions, similar to Lemonpen. Grimes and Fontecchio sound like they'll be good additions/ fits.

I still won't be shocked if Killian becomes a decent NBA player at 27, 28, when he consistently uses his big body to play with force, but he got every opportunity here, so time to close that chapter. He might be best off going back to Europe for a few years, but someone (SA?) will likely pick him up here.

Onward. All kinds of money, but not clear where we'll be able to spend it apart from extensions as they come due. Tobias Harris sounds like the most likely summer signing, with lingering Michigan connections.

Gores called for change and he got it. We held on to our core four, as well as the next two best youngsters in Stewart and Sasser. And money to burn. I see Weaver getting at least the summer to "restore," in fact it'd surprise me if he gets fired unless/ until we get off to a terrible start next season.

I was hoping for more but I'm ok.  
-  Troy replaced two older shooters with two younger shooters who add more D and athleticism.  
-  He has retained 90% of the CAP space. (only Grimes is signed for next year)
-  We have 3 additional 2nd round picks.  

[lemonpen]

I was hoping for more but I'm ok.
- Troy replaced two older shooters with two younger shooters who add more D and athleticism.
- He has retained 90% of the CAP space. (only Grimes is signed for next year)
- We have 3 additional 2nd round picks.

[lemonpen]

Mr Gores, it seems you have been an incredible hinderance to your GM.  Preventing him from hiring HIS coach, then preventing trading HIS draft mistake.  Throwing your wallet at a coach who wanted to take time away from the game (for the second time).  You are not a Basketball Man, you hired one.  

Our fundamentals continue to suck.  One hand passing, no thought of boxing out, walking away from defensive assignments only to have the ball find them for open shots, jumping to make passes, no-look passing failures, screen setting offensive fouls, unnecessary double teams, stolen inbounds passes,  ......  STUFF THAT A HIGH SCHOOL COACH WOULDN'T STAND FOR!

I'm not saying Monte is a poor coach, his track record speaks for itself, but I'm thinking Monte may not have the heart for coaching right now.  Maybe time away was the right thing for him.

We are playing Portland on Deadline Day.  Is it coincidence??

My Wet Dream:  We leave Rip City with Jeremi Grant and Chauncy Billups in tow.  Why?  We need a 2-way PF.  But even more, because we are developing a guard dominated team, I believe having a coach who was an exceptional floor general, accomplished and respected lead guard would be worth its weight in gold toward development of Cade/Ivey/Sasser.

[lemonpen]

I guess we didn't let them "Light the Light" last night. Too bad.

Damn good game.

Glad to see Ausar played the 2nd half after turning his ankle earlier.

No Bogy .............. is there an offer being considered?

It musta felt a little funny for Hayes being out there after making comments about moving on.

NEWS FLASH!!!!! We now have a center that we can consistently dump the ball to and win the matchup. Offensively speaking the kid has game. He has spectacular foot work. Righty/Lefty too. There is no longer a reason we should suffer scoring slumps. Right Monte?

Kudos Ivey. Continue putting pressure on our No1 pick. Competition is healthy.

[lemonpen]

Well, there’s certainly nothing to complain about here.  Weaver traded two guys, Morris and Knox, who he signed in free agency, and then just flipped them for Troy Brown, Shake Milton and Simone Fontecchio.  They all have potential to develop into good  outside shooters, which should help space the floor.    I particularly like the Shake Milton acquisition.

I can't wait to see this Fontecchio guy. Statistically speaking he has taken a pretty good jump from year 1 to 2, in many categories.
I view Milton and Brown as run of the mill guys who have been around long enough to have distinguished themselves, or not. There is no playing time available at their positions. I expect one of them to be released and the other to stick as injury protection.

[Murph]

Well, there’s certainly nothing to complain about here. Weaver traded two guys, Morris and Knox, who he signed in free agency, and then just flipped them for Troy Brown, Shake Milton and Simone Fontecchio. They all have potential to develop into good outside shooters, which should help space the floor. I particularly like the Shake Milton acquisition.

[Murph]

Thank God LaVine had another season ending
surgery.  Otherwise, Weaver would have traded for him, thereby ruining the Pistons salary structure for the next 4 years, alla Blake Griffin.  

We narrowly dodged that bullet.  

[Murph]

So Killian Hayes wants out of Detroit and has requested a trade? Good luck with that. I’m sure there’s a strong market for the worst shooter in the league on the worst team in the league. What a clown.

Now he sits the bench and doesn’t even play. Geesh.

Hayes is emblematic of Troy Weaver’s utter failure over the last 5 years to rebuilt this team, and Tom Gores’ utter failure over the last 12 years to put a competitive team on the floor.

It just hurts my head to think Weaver could have rebuilt this team around future Hall of Famer Tyrese Halliburton.

[Murph]

Lemon…Good post.  I could not agree more.  

I think two things are coming into view.  1.  Ivey is becoming a very special player.  He really hasn’t played much PG in his career.  I think he was primarily a SG at a Purdue.  I think he’s already the best PG on the team, and he will get much, much better as he gains experience at that position.

2.  Cade is shaping up to be a minor disappointment as a #1 pick.  I believe he still can become a very valuable player, but it probably won’t be as our starting PG.  When Cade gets healthy, Williams should try Cade out as our starting SF.  

Can you imagine how dynamic and how difficult this team would be to defend if Cade started at SF and Ausar started at PF?  That would give the Pistons potentially 4 excellent ball handlers who could distribute, in Ivey, Cade, Ausar and whomever Weaver might sign in free agency and draft, to fill the starting SG position.

No one seems to want to put it in print but the Pistons play a more spirited style of basketball with Cade on the side lines.  Better player and ball movement.  More active and effective defense.  More contributors.  More of something that resembles winning basketball.

We began the season seeking an answer to the question "who best fits with Cade going forward".  As the season progresses, I'm left wondering if Cade fits or can fit.   Presently, Ivey is a better fit.

[lemonpen]

No one seems to want to put it in print but the Pistons play a more spirited style of basketball with Cade on the side lines. Better player and ball movement. More active and effective defense. More contributors. More of something that resembles winning basketball.

We began the season seeking an answer to the question "who best fits with Cade going forward". As the season progresses, I'm left wondering if Cade fits or can fit. Presently, Ivey is a better fit.

[Go Stones!]

If we are all in on Ausar Thompson...what would it take to trade for Amen? Can you imagine them playing SG and SF for years to come? They have years of experience playing together. You can buy that or teach that. Just saying...

[Go Stones!]

Points:

1. Many of the players did not have "good" games with many misses. Look at the stats and you can see.

2. TOs from Cade were a large reason why we lost. Even the announcers said the last 5+ games the TOs were significantly less. They did not state that Cade's returning has been the reason why it jumped up, but I will. He is hogging the ball. He is slow to make a move, which gains 2-3 players to surround him, then he telegraphs his passes causing a TO. He needs to do the 0.5-second pass plan. I also watched that when Cade had the ball, the rest of the team didn't know what to do since they didn't want to go to him, which would gain even more Wiz players in his area, but they also didn't know where he was going. It was like Cade was playing take away and all the players were chasing him.

3. Ivey didn't have the best game b/c Cade took his mojo spot light.

4. Ausar is still good, but it would be nice to see a few plays draw up just for him in the lane. When he jumps for a pull-up in the lane, no one can defend that.

5. With all the 60-73 points per game by a single player in the last week, it is even more important to have defensive stoppers on the team. I think between Stew and Thompson and Killian, we would be able to shut that down.

6. Sasser didn't get any burn today.

7. This is Cade's first game back, however....


NOTE: I'd much rather have Cade as a 2-3 position player and limit him bringing up the ball. If there were other players that were lethal from 3 it would greatly assist. If Ausar and Duren were able to get high percentage shots for points, that would be great too.

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