don't worry about playoffs. trust the process

[Phil-Good]

That said, I just can’t get excited about this team until it surpasses the level that we were at before the total rebuild.  The Drummond-Jackson team of 2015-16 was was 6 games over .500 (.537), and made the playoff, losing in the 1st round.  And the Drummond-Jackson-Griffin team of 2018-19 played .500, and make the playoffs, again losing in the 1st round.

This current rebuild roster has more talent then those two teams. Name 1 player from both of those teams who play harder then Isiah Stewart? Name one player from those teams who can shoot better then Bey?

Name one player from those team who has Cade Cunningham's potential?

Don't worry about making the playoffs. Trust the Process. Think about this for one second. What happens if the Pistons land a top 3 pick next summer, Cade wins rookie of the year, Bey and Steward continue to improve and become rock solid starting players, Saben Lee locks down the #2 PG position, Grant makes the All Star team and A few new guys step up and the Pistons stay injury free all season?

That's better then making the playoffs this season. That's how you start winning championships. F>uck the playoffs. Build a team that can win RINGS!!! TRUST THE PROCESS!!!!

[Sparma]

I did recently watch it, Murph, and I thought it was pretty good too.

A lot of what they presented, e.g., comments by security guards and their actions at the time, was new to me.

Something that surprised me is how little Piston players seemed to have to do with the whole mess. Ben Wallace, understandably, was furious when getting a hard and dirty foul with the game out of hand in Indiana's favor. That still seemed that ordinary level NBA physicality, even if he gets tossed. Later, Ben provocatively, but harmlessly, tossed clothing like armbands at Indiana players. Not nice, but not a massive transgression. It's understandable that Ben got tossed but he wasn't outrageously out of line. At one point, Rasheed Wallace looks in from afar as if he wants to mix it up, but then he doesn't.

The over the top stuff seems to revolve around three Indiana players (and I gained sympathy for O'Neal) and the Piston fans. And the Palace security comes across as woefully inadequate, at best.

Did anyone else watch the new Netflix documentary?  It put forth a new and interesting spin on the brawl from 17 years ago.  It showed extensive interviews with Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Reggie Miller and Jermain O'Neil, as well as extensive footage from that night.   Because of this, the documentary shifted a great deal of the blame away from the players to the Detroit fan base.

I was never really a Ron Artest hater; I always admired his hard nosed defense.  And so I found the documentary's perspective to be interesting and balanced.

[Murph]

Did anyone else watch the new Netflix documentary?  It put forth a new and interesting spin on the brawl from 17 years ago.  It showed extensive interviews with Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Reggie Miller and Jermain O'Neil, as well as extensive footage from that night.   Because of this, the documentary shifted a great deal of the blame away from the players to the Detroit fan base.

I was never really a Ron Artest hater; I always admired his hard nosed defense. And so I found the documentary's perspective to be interesting and balanced.

[Murph]

Amazing job by Troy. Stacking up young prospects by the loads.

Livers, Bey, Steward, UCLA kid who injured, Luka G, Saben Lee, who I believe is a better player the Hayes. Diallo or however you spell his name. My point; Troy is on top of his GAME!! Troy is finding players that he likes through all available channels.

One or two of these guys will out perform their draft selection spot or even undrafted spot.

I'm very impressed with what Troy is doing.

I realize that none of this is Weaver’s fault.  Stefanski blew up the team before Weaver arrived.  Under the circumstances, Troy is doing a good enough job.

That said, I just can’t get excited about this team until it surpasses the level that we were at before the total rebuild.  The Drummond-Jackson team of 2015-16 was was 6 games over .500 (.537), and made the playoff, losing in the 1st round.  And the Drummond-Jackson-Griffin team of 2018-19 played .500, and make the playoffs, again losing in the 1st round.

So until a Weaver team can play better than .537 and win a 1st round playoff series, the rebuild will not have been worth it.  Hopefully that will happen by 2022-23, but that’s 2 more seasons away and is not a foregone conclusion.

[Phil-Good]

I would say the Pistons will win abut 30 games next season.

If everything goes really well and a few of the young guys shock us, I would say about 35 games.

Also, FucKKKKKKK Jalen Green. He showed how fake of a lil bitCCCCCCH he really is. Taking shots at Detroit.

But he a buster azz, type of lil boy!

Hey, I don't live in Detroit anymore. And it's for 1 reason only. Weather!! I can't do Michigan winters. I'm over Michigan 10 month winters. If Michigan was warm, I would still be living there. I would never knock the city because if weather was better, more businesses would be in Michgan and the economy would be AMAZING with the beach, river walk and Canada being right next door. Michigan is a amazing place.

Red Wings, Tigers, Michigan, Michigan State. Michigan is a fun place. I found my wife in Ferndale. Hanging out off of Woodward in The summer time! FUN TIMES MAN!!

FUN TIMES MAN!!

[Sparma]

That's according to Caesar's Sportsbook (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/detroit-pistons-nbas-third-worst-171430482.html).

That still seems low to me, although I do think they'll miss Plumlee.

Tanking like crazy, the Pistons went 20-52 last year, playing ten games fewer than usual, for a 27.8%.

For them to go over this season, they'd need to be at least 26-56 for the 82 projected games, for a percentage of 31.7%. By my math that would have come out to 23 wins (rounded up) over last season's shortened season. I feel pretty confident they would have gotten there if they just hadn't tanked so hard. Also, there margin of loss was really low for a team with such an awful record; in baseball, at least, that suggests a correction ahead for the anomaly.

I'm still inclined to think they getting to the over if a) they stay in good health, b) they don't tank outrageously again (even though I hope they will), c) they don't trade away Jerami for future assets (even though I actually hope they will), and d) if Cade becomes a significant contributor straightaway, as his summer league performance suggests he will.

Hmm. I'm puzzled by Vegas. At the same time, I've learned a healthy respect because their (pessimistic) lines have usually been closer to the mark than my guesses during the past miserable decade of Pistons basketball.

[Phil-Good]

Amazing job by Troy. Stacking up young prospects by the loads.

Livers, Bey, Steward, UCLA kid who injured, Luka G, Saben Lee, who I believe is a better player the Hayes. Diallo or however you spell his name. My point; Troy is on top of his GAME!! Troy is finding players that he likes through all available channels.

One or two of these guys will out perform their draft selection spot or even undrafted spot.

I'm very impressed with what Troy is doing.

[lemonpen]

My memory is that he's been quoted recently as saying he was "promised" being draft at #2, clear up to a day before the draft.

He also says that with him the Pistons would have won another championship the year after the one they won.  That's possible, and I do think the Pistons would have been better with him in post-championship years.  On the other hand, I don't know if they would have won the one they did with him playing a lot of minutes, and squeezing the invaluable Prince's minutes.

Looks like Diallo's been signed to a 2 year, 10.4 mil (total) deal.  That's well below league average, and I'm fine with that.  He can serve a purpose (driving to the basket), if they get him to accept a limited role.

What's up with all of the articles about Carmello not being drafted by the Pistons?
Is there something of significance.   What am I missing.

Mello:  He must have blown an inch of dust off of those feelings.   Jeez, get over it already.  Focus on your current opportunity.

Diallo:  Outstanding!!  Well done,  Troy.  

Troy:  Just my opinion,  but I think Troy has "right sized" each new contract.   No long term obligations.   No excessive dollar commitments.  I feel like these are contracts that each young guy can outperform.

[Sparma]

My memory is that he's been quoted recently as saying he was "promised" being draft at #2, clear up to a day before the draft.

He also says that with him the Pistons would have won another championship the year after the one they won. That's possible, and I do think the Pistons would have been better with him in post-championship years. On the other hand, I don't know if they would have won the one they did with him playing a lot of minutes, and squeezing the invaluable Prince's minutes.

Looks like Diallo's been signed to a 2 year, 10.4 mil (total) deal. That's well below league average, and I'm fine with that. He can serve a purpose (driving to the basket), if they get him to accept a limited role.

What's up with all of the articles about Carmello not being drafted by the Pistons?
Is there something of significance.   What am I missing.

[lemonpen]

What's up with all of the articles about Carmello not being drafted by the Pistons?
Is there something of significance. What am I missing.

[Sparma]

Good point, Lemon. We could see another (!) stretch. Not sure it would be Okafur, but he'd be a likely candidate. 2 for 1 trades sound good, but might not be so easy to pull off, especially at this time of cutting rosters down to size.

Rod Beard has an August 4 Detroit News story titled: "New Piston Isaiah Livers Expects to be Cleared to Return in October."  I would expect him to be on the roster.  Or maybe on IR?  There could be a 2 for 1 trade, involving Okafur.  I see more of a niche for Okafur than for McGruder, which makes the latter's signing puzzling to me, also because I still think there's quite a good chance Diallo makes it back to the Pistons after exploring possible offers elsewhere.  Hmm.  Not sure.  Looks like something needs to happen prior to the roster falling into place.

Weaver has shown willingness to use the stretch provision to eliminate small contracts.  Could Okafor be next?

[Oracle]

NBA World Reacts To The Rasheed Wallace News

[lemonpen]

Rod Beard has an August 4 Detroit News story titled: "New Piston Isaiah Livers Expects to be Cleared to Return in October."  I would expect him to be on the roster.  Or maybe on IR?  There could be a 2 for 1 trade, involving Okafur.  I see more of a niche for Okafur than for McGruder, which makes the latter's signing puzzling to me, also because I still think there's quite a good chance Diallo makes it back to the Pistons after exploring possible offers elsewhere.  Hmm.  Not sure.  Looks like something needs to happen prior to the roster falling into place.

Weaver has shown willingness to use the stretch provision to eliminate small contracts. Could Okafor be next?

[lemonpen]

Am I missing something?  My Roster looks like this:

Cunningham, Joseph, Lee
Hayes, JJ, Frank Jackson
Bey, McGruder, Sekou
Grant, Olynyk, Lyles
Steward, Okafore, Garza

The odd man out here seems to be Isaiah Livers.  Livers did not play at all in the summer league, and has not been mentioned since draft night.

I guess it's possible Weaver could dump Okafor, as Lemon mentioned, and carry Livers.  That's what I would do.

2 way contracts aren't included on 15 man roster, so there is room for Livers.   I wonder what happens if Diallo is inked.

Chris Smith is the other 2 way contract.

So there’s one more roster spot, which will go to Diallo?  If so, I hope that contract is as short as possible.

And Livers is gone.

Agreed. I'd rather see Diallos contract be no greater than 3 years, with a team option in #3. Weaver needs to create as much positional flexibility as possible for use of next seasons Cap dollars.

[Sparma]

Rod Beard has an August 4 Detroit News story titled: "New Piston Isaiah Livers Expects to be Cleared to Return in October." I would expect him to be on the roster. Or maybe on IR? There could be a 2 for 1 trade, involving Okafur. I see more of a niche for Okafur than for McGruder, which makes the latter's signing puzzling to me, also because I still think there's quite a good chance Diallo makes it back to the Pistons after exploring possible offers elsewhere. Hmm. Not sure. Looks like something needs to happen prior to the roster falling into place.

[Murph]

Am I missing something?  My Roster looks like this:

Cunningham, Joseph, Lee
Hayes, JJ, Frank Jackson
Bey, McGruder, Sekou
Grant, Olynyk, Lyles
Steward, Okafore, Garza

The odd man out here seems to be Isaiah Livers.  Livers did not play at all in the summer league, and has not been mentioned since draft night.

I guess it's possible Weaver could dump Okafor, as Lemon mentioned, and carry Livers.  That's what I would do.

2 way contracts aren't included on 15 man roster, so there is room for Livers.   I wonder what happens if Diallo is inked.

Chris Smith is the other 2 way contract.

So there’s one more roster spot, which will go to Diallo? If so, I hope that contract is as short as possible.

And Livers is gone.

[lemonpen]

Am I missing something?  My Roster looks like this:

Cunningham, Joseph, Lee
Hayes, JJ, Frank Jackson
Bey, McGruder, Sekou
Grant, Olynyk, Lyles
Steward, Okafore, Garza

The odd man out here seems to be Isaiah Livers.  Livers did not play at all in the summer league, and has not been mentioned since draft night.

I guess it's possible Weaver could dump Okafor, as Lemon mentioned, and carry Livers.  That's what I would do.

2 way contracts aren't included on 15 man roster, so there is room for Livers. I wonder what happens if Diallo is inked.

[Murph]

Am I missing something?  My Roster looks like this:

Cunningham, Joseph, Lee
Hayes, JJ, Frank Jackson
Bey, McGruder, Sekou
Grant, Olynyk, Lyles
Steward, Okafore, Garza

The odd man out here seems to be Isaiah Livers.  Livers did not play at all in the summer league, and has not been mentioned since draft night.

I guess it's possible Weaver could dump Okafor, as Lemon mentioned, and carry Livers.  That's what I would do.

[lemonpen]

The lone bright spot in the summer league has been Luka Garza.  This guy has played his way onto the 15 man roster.  He is demanding a roster spot.



I should know better than to get attached to a hard working. over-achiever like Garza.  I'm sure Weaver will ship Garza out of town, like he did Bruce Brown, for no good reason.

Luca has been quite a pleasent surprise. You have gotten your wish. Garza signed a two way contract on Monday. I suspect that is a place holder, keeping him under our control, allowing two things to happen. 1- Luca can continue developing physically (footspeed & explosiveness). 2- If satisfied with Garza's improvement Weaver has time to offload Okafor for a positive return.

[Murph]

The lone bright spot in the summer league has been Luka Garza.  This guy has played his way onto the 15 man roster.  He is demanding a roster spot.



I should know better than to get attached to a hard working. over-achiever like Garza.  I'm sure Weaver will ship Garza out of town, like he did Bruce Brown, for no good reason.

[Murph]

This is my advice on how to deal with Hayes.

1st. Resign Hamidou Diallo. Give this kid a 5 year deal and let him know the starting 2-Guard spot is all his..

2nd: Take pressure off Hayes. Inform him He is now a bench player and allow him to over achive as a bench player with little to no pressure. Inform him his new role as a combo guard off the bench.

Hayes is a clear cut bust and I wouldn't continue to burn time trying to make this kid something he not.

Also, Sakou. I think this kid can add to somebody's NBA roster. I hope this kid get a opportunity to show he can play full time/long term.

Phil...you make many good points about Hayes.  But I don't think Diallo is the answer.  Diallo has shown very little so far in his 3 years in the NBA.  And he doesn't shoot 3 pointers well enough to play SG in today's NBA.  IMO, we should not tie him up for 5 years.  

Even if we have to move Hayes to the bench, Diallo is not the answer at SG.  We can sign a better free agent SG next year than Diallo, with all that money coming off the books.

A better solution would be to have a coach with some brains and balls, who would forcibly take to ball out of Hayes' hands, give it to Cunningham, and let CC run the show. But sadly, our coaching staff is in short supply of brains and balls.

Also, I've about given up on Sekou.  He is performing poorly in the summer league, after 2 full seasons in the NBA.  He just isn't getting it.  He needs to go, after this year.  We should not pick up his $5.5 million option next year.  We should let him walk away.

[Phil-Good]

This is my advice on how to deal with Hayes.

1st. Resign Hamidou Diallo. Give this kid a 5 year deal and let him know the starting 2-Guard spot is all his..

2nd: Take pressure off Hayes. Inform him He is now a bench player and allow him to over achive as a bench player with little to no pressure. Inform him his new role as a combo guard off the bench.

Hayes is a clear cut bust and I wouldn't continue to burn time trying to make this kid something he not.

Also, Sakou. I think this kid can add to somebody's NBA roster. I hope this kid get a opportunity to show he can play full time/long term.

[Murph]

“Schmitz: Watching Cade Cunningham stand in the corner while either Killian Hayes or Saben Lee consistently started and ended possessions was maddening. Using Cunningham as only a part-time ball handler is stripping him of one of his best skills (passing) while making him look ordinary. The situation reminds me of when the Dallas Mavericks tried their best to make the Luka Doncic-Dennis Smith Jr. pairing work before ultimately giving Doncic the keys. With the ball-dominant Hayes clearly not the level of player the Pistons were hoping for when they surprisingly selected him seventh overall, Detroit would be wise to shift Hayes to a bench playmaker role, using Cunningham as the lead initiator with the starting unit.”


See, this is the problem with tanking. You can do everything right. You can even win the lottery. But drafting is an inexact science. You can end up with duds like Hayes.

With that in mind, I hope Cunningham works out.

[Phil-Good]

Lord give me the strength! I can’t keep watching this Killian Hayes bum shoot his off Balance, left leaning, twerking, ackward off balance, broke Fu@@@ck$$$ing Azz.. Jump shot. I just can’t do it. I can’t
Somebody put this freaking guy in a shooting cage. Wire up the left side of the cage. Tell this freaking prick if you lean fuc@@king left, this machine will electrocute your french AZZ. Jump up and down! That’s how you shoot the freaking ball End this kid fast! Get rid of this bust FAST!!

[lemonpen]

The game wasn't as close as the final score might suggest, the Knicks looked like us closing the huge gap, only to lose  

We got good outings from the main guys, and Cade looked good. I'm beginning to warm up to him and Hayes playing together, it presents a large backcourt that is very good defensively.

But we also saw the most efficient Cade so far, and I do mean efficient(see below).

Tip-o-the-hat to the coach. Tonight's starting unit defended very well.
It looks like the inner winner in Cade is pushing him toward assuming the starring role.
Man, I'm having difficulty seeing Hayes as a starter. Dude has so many holes and bad habits. But we shall see.

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