CC v Mobley

[lemonpen]

Now that will make for great discussion as we head down the stretch.  

So far Mobley has been a "steady eddie", reliable, night-in night-out producer.  Cade has shown the capability to be quite a bit more explosive.  
Mobley is more role player than leader.  Many times Cade has to be Mr Everything.  (Granted the difference of role)
Mobley needs someone else to get him the ball in halfway decent scoring position (66% of baskets are assisted).  For Cade, well, not so much.

Mobley had a huge head start of sorts toward ROY and has done little to cast doubt on his qualifications.   Cade continues to run him down by ending games with numbers that compare only to top 75 HOF'er.  

I hope both continue.

I wonder what happened to the kid that hated not being drafted by Detroit but later hated the place.

[Sparma]

You're right about Rodman and his two All-Star appearances, Murph. I've been walking around with a mis-memory of him all these years. Sorry Dennis!

[Phil-Good]

I’ll take that bet.

You can root for Mobley, I’ll take CC.

Not only that, if the draft were held again, I’d take CC #1 every time.

I would take Cade #1 Again also. But reality is Cleveland is good and Mobley is the premium option and Mobley is locking down the paint with his shot blocking.

Rookie of the year always consider impact on team results. Cleveland is a playoff team.

That will give him rookie of the year. Best you can hope for is a split like Grant and J.Kidd

[Phil-Good]

If Grants so valuable, how come the only legit offers we’re getting for him is Talen Horton Tucker and that  “draft bust” Bagley?

That's what you think. Reality is none of us know what's really going on..

That's why woj makes the big bucks not us.

[Murph]

If Grants so valuable, how come the only legit offers we’re getting for him is Talen Horton Tucker and that “draft bust” Bagley?

[Murph]

I’ll take that bet.

You can root for Mobley, I’ll take CC.

Not only that, if the draft were held again, I’d take CC #1 every time.

[Phil-Good]

"TRADE GRANT NOW. If Bagley and a protected 1st is all we can get, do it! (Just don’t take that Laker offer.)"

Come on Murph. You willing to take A DRAFT BUST OVER A 22 pts per game border-Line all star, shot-blocking, defender, 3pt shooting, productive 27 year old, certified, NBA player?

Also, Cade didn't out-play Mobley. The Pistons just pull off a miracle win thanks to them playing hard as FUC$$$K at home.

Cleveland is a way better team and further along in the rebuilding process. Cleveland starting 5 is fill with Lottery picks. Detroit has 1 lottery pick in their starting 5.

Cleveland also has the PG, SF, PF and Center positions locked in for the next several years with Certified ballers. Amazing job rebuilding and as always, a lot of luck.

unless Cade starts to rip of triple dubs ever night, Mobley will win ROY by a land-slide.

[Murph]

Congrats Stafford!!

And the Pistons came back from an 0-15 start against a good team.  I guess that's just one game though, whereas the Stafford win is a career maker.  HOF, here we come? (Rodman never made an All Star game either (although he did win 5 chips)).

Rodman made All Star teams in 90 and 92.  He should have made many more.


My concerns about keeping Grant are that like Bey, he is basically a SF.   So we are undersized if both start.  Also, he is very high usage and not very efficient.  I’d rather have the ball in CC’s hands, not Grants.  Also, for whatever reason, Bey plays much much better when Grant is not in the lineup.

Also, I don’t want to extend Grant’s contract and pay him $133 million over the next 5 years.  That money might be used to help lure a real All Star here.  

And finally, his age doesn’t match up with the rest of the Pistons developing stars, CC and Bey. By the time Grant’s contract extension is over, he’ll be 33.  

I thought we were rebuilding this team from the bottom up through the draft.  How does keeping a 28 years old, high usage, not very efficient, almost All Start fit into that model???

Frankly, I’m a little surprised there is any market for Grant at all.  At least we don’t have to use a draft choice to move him, like Weaver did Plumlee.  

TRADE GRANT NOW.  If Bagley and a protected 1st is all we can get, do it! (Just don’t take that Laker offer.)

And much of the same reasoning holds true of Olynyk.  Trade them ifwe can trade these guys for anything of value.

I don’t want to watch these guys and I don’t want them marginally improving our record and worsening our draft position.


Cade certainly outplayed Mobley last night.  If CC continues on this trajectory, he’ll win ROK.  He plays a much, much more difficult position than Mobley, and his leaning curve is steep.  He’s getting better and better every week.

[Sparma]

Congrats Stafford!!

And the Pistons came back from an 0-15 start against a good team. I guess that's just one game though, whereas the Stafford win is a career maker. HOF, here we come? (Rodman never made an All Star game either (although he did win 5 chips)).

I'm so happy for Stafford!

[Oracle]

I'm so happy for Stafford!

[cool breeze]

The coaching staff has been experimenting with different lineups. We all see things with different eyes when observing what actually goes on in the games with our team. The turnovers seemed to go down when Killian Hayes was not in the lineup. During that time the Pistons were able to avoid giving up runs to the opposition. Three point attempts were lower and players worked harder to obtain a better shot selection. While I had been focusing on the lack of energy, lack of rim protection being offered by Tre Lyles earlier on now I know why the coaching staff stuck with him because he has become a much more reliable option at center than Beef Stu. If any player has taken a step back it has to be Stu. Last season he anticipated better on the defensive end and was a better offensive rebounder against better competition. He is now dancing more and trying to become more of a scorer from mid range but that should not be his focus. He is undersized for a center and it showed big time in the last Denver game. Lyles did not play well against Denver either which shows the biggest weakness is that the Pistons lack a big athletic rim protector and rebounder. But Lyles seems to have been part of the improved team chemistry with Cunningham and Bey along with Diallo. Lyles has improved his conditioning and is playing more solid defense with less reaching as drivers try to penetrate against him. He has shown his ability to hit mid range and 3 point shots too but time will tell how much he will be willing to work to become part of a good playoff team.

Two players have emerged as key studs to bring the Pistons to elite status in the future.

BEY: If I were the GM I would try to sign Bey to a long term contract. He has worked really hard to score off the dribble in the paint and has perfected his shot release from distance. He is rock solid relating to strength and will only get better as he plays with more elite teammates. He can play either small or power forward but I like him best at small forward. Detroit needs an elite defender at either the center or power forward position. Perhaps Lyles will improve and become a solid power forward.

Cunningham: Dave Bing mentioned that the Pistons needed a point guard during the short time he was will Greg Kelser during a game about a month ago. Cade must have either talked with Dave Bing or heard that comment because for the following two weeks, Cade became a pass first point guard and elevated his effort as a defender. His offensive stats went down but I welcomed this change in his desire to improve on his weaknesses. How he has it all down. Cade is a complete player making outstanding defensive plays in crunch time, getting really big rebounds when it counts and is showing that he is an elite offensive weapon as a scorer in every quarter he plays in. That is important because he plays hard all the time not just in the 4th quarter. He is a leader. Incredible that we fans now can watch his career and pull for a good guy who wants to be the best player at his position.

Credit the coaching staff for developing a better defensive system and for creating more movement using the weak side more with Diallo. Diallo has a unique style. I see some Dennis Rodman in him relating to his potential as an elite defender. He has the quickness and bounce to his step that separates him from many athletes. Will he choose to learn how to use his gifts to elevate himself into a lock down defender as well as a guy who can shoot the 3 point shot better. His ability to score in the paint has been proven this season. If the coaching staff can create more plays for him so he touches the ball in the paint, that will open things up for Bey and Cunningham to get wide open shots.

There is a lot to feel good about this season. The injuries to Kelly and Grant have turned out to be a good thing because the young guys have developed a winning type bond. I would have liked to see more of Lee who has received few minutes lately and seldom gets to play with Cade. That is a big mistake in my opinion. The combination of Lee and Cunningham might be amazing as Lee is a good penetrator-defender-passer and has a very high basketball IQ. His problem has been lack of playing time. If Saben got the same minutes that Hayes has received at this point in the season, the Pistons would be at a higher level now but maybe some of that is guess work on my part. Hayes is getting every chance to prove he belongs on a good basketball team so only time will tell if the coaching staff and GM has made the right decision. Hayes can make so highlight type passes and then turn the ball over or miss wide open shots in such quantity that he takes his team out of games. Killian is still young and appears super confident in himself but there is no way that he should have been the Pistons number 1 pick in 2019. Frank Jackson is developing into a reliable shooter and tough minded player so he is another positive guy who might fit long term. What a tough job making decisions on who goes and who stays.

Trade Grant before the trade deadline. He needs to shine on a playoff caliber team not on a developing team. With the Pistons when Grant was playing he was the number 1 option on offense which affected his ability to defend at an elite level which he is capable of doing. I doubt that Grant will want to be the 3rd option on this Piston team with Cunningham showing he is a real leader and Bey proving that in the end he will be a better all around player than Grant. But whatever happens moving forward I am happy to watch every Piston game now because there are no head cases or slackers now. Every player plays extremely hard. They do not dance before the games and celebrate how great they think that might be and then walk back on defense during the actual games. This group plays unselfishly and celebrates when a teammate makes a great play. There is even outstanding chemistry with the bench guys who go crazy when those blessed with playing time so something special. Good vibes must not be extinguished so it will be up to the Pistons GM to pick the right players to fit the personalities of the core.

[Phil-Good]

I would love to see Grant traded for a nice return. Not sure it's going to happen. Facts are Grant at 4 years and 100 Million is not a bad contract.

Maybe you resign him and trade him later. In-between time, make him earn his money. Grant is not a PF. He more a small forward. Move Bey over to the 4-Spot, let Cade run the show, add A Starting guard to go next to Cade, add a starting center and keep adding talent. Just continue to move forward.

I keep saying this to anybody who will listen. STOP Trying to draft for need. Draft the best available player!!


JADEN IVEY....

Yes, we need some big bodies but J.Ivey will be a STAR! We need a star more then we need a big...

[Sparma]

Piecing together things I've heard and read, particularly from the Lowe post and Stein, it sounds to me like Weaver would only trade Grant if an overwhelming offer came in of two picks and a young player, whereas Tellum's ready to go if a solid offer of a (protected) first and a decent younger player came in.

Also, it sounds like Atlanta's not really interested in a Grant trade, as I suspected.

My guess is they don't get the fantastic offer that Weaver's looking for, and that there's better than a 50% chance that Grant stays. Plenty interesting! I'm hoping Grant is traded, but for a good, even if not great, return.

In order of preference I would rank the rumored trades as follows:

Grant and a protected 1st rounder for Collins

Grant for Williams and Jones and a protected 1st rounder

Grant for Bagley and Thompson and a protected 1st rounder.


While Washington is rumored to have interest in Grant, I have not heard of a specific trade proposal.  

[Murph]

In order of preference I would rank the rumored trades as follows:

Grant and a protected 1st rounder for Collins

Grant for Williams and Jones and a protected 1st rounder

Grant for Bagley and Thompson and a protected 1st rounder.


While Washington is rumored to have interest in Grant, I have not heard of a specific trade proposal.

[Murph]

That’s great that Stanley Johnson is quietly having the best year of his career, and has signed a 2 year deal with the Lakers.  He was a favorite whipping boy in Detroit, because he never quite lived up to expectations.  But he always played with maximum effort.  


Phil... that’s very cool that your dad is acquainted with Mr. C.  We’re all glad to know Cade is happy in Detroit.

I’d still trade Grant for Collins in a heartbeat though.  

[Oracle]

Lakers finally sign Stanley Johnson!!!

He was on an unprecedented 3rd straight 10 day contracts, normally the max is 2 consecutive 10 day contracts. It only occurred because the first one was a hardship deal.

He gets a 2 year deal with the 2nd being a team option, so he has to perform, but the good news is that he's back in the NBA!!!

Congrats Stanley!!! 

[Phil-Good]

My pops is a manager at a Grocery store right around the block from where Cade grew up in his home town. Cade's Father walks into the Grocery store a few weeks ago Draped in Pistons gear. My pops ask if he has been treated well by the Pistons?Cade Pops says like Royalty!!

If Cade family is happy then Cade is happy!

This is the time where the Pistons have to Push forward with smart trades, high lottery picks and Drafting the right kind of guys. Hard working, high charactor, talanted guys.

J.Collins is a juice head. You don't want that around Cade. Get on that phone with Chicago, Washington and make a good trade. If not, hold on to Grant until the summer and see what's what then. Ask the basketball God's for top 3 pick and nail it!

Stay healthy. Go Pistons!

[Sparma]

I watched an outstanding Cade score 13 in the first quarter, then went and did something else, being less than fan-atic. We've finally got our cornerstone. Build, Pistons, build.

In response to Murph, I don't think Stewart is the long-term answer as starting C, even though I think he's a useful rotational player, at least when on a rookie contract. Weirdly, the previous game against Denver, a couple of days earlier, he had probably his best offensive night going 8 for 8 for 18 points, against an all-time great. Even then, Jokic really overmatched him, as Stew's three bounds that night indicate.

Having switched after the 1st quarter, I turned to the Detroit News after the game for a report, and found this nugget: "When he got loose another time, Milicic powered in for a one-hand slam. Nobody even thought about stepping in to take a charge, and you couldn’t blame them."

They'd been making an unfavorable comparison between Jokic and Milicic, and plugged in Milicic's name in the commentary. Haven't checked, but I'm guessing they've corrected that goof by now.

Yes, good game by CC last night.  We need to build around him.  The only legitimate long term starter we now have to help CC is Bey.  

We need a LT starting center, PF and shooting guard.  Hopefully, this summer’s draft will address one of those needs.

Cunningham needs to seriously cut down on his TOs next year.  

"Cade Cunningham finally had his coming-out party. The Detroit Pistons rookie scored a career-high 34 points to go with 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 4 blocks. The only other rookie to reach those thresholds was some guy named Michael Jordan. Ever heard of him?" - Pistons vs. Nuggets final score: Cade Cunningham’s career night not enough to push Pistons past Nuggets

[Murph]

Yes, good game by CC last night. We need to build around him. The only legitimate long term starter we now have to help CC is Bey.

We need a LT starting center, PF and shooting guard. Hopefully, this summer’s draft will address one of those needs.

Cunningham needs to seriously cut down on his TOs next year.

"Cade Cunningham finally had his coming-out party. The Detroit Pistons rookie scored a career-high 34 points to go with 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 4 blocks. The only other rookie to reach those thresholds was some guy named Michael Jordan. Ever heard of him?" - Pistons vs. Nuggets final score: Cade Cunningham’s career night not enough to push Pistons past Nuggets

[Oracle]

"Cade Cunningham finally had his coming-out party. The Detroit Pistons rookie scored a career-high 34 points to go with 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 4 blocks. The only other rookie to reach those thresholds was some guy named Michael Jordan. Ever heard of him?" - Pistons vs. Nuggets final score: Cade Cunningham’s career night not enough to push Pistons past Nuggets

[Phil-Good]

"IMO, a huge number of professional athletes take HGH sometime in their careers. I seriously doubt Collins is unique in this."

Could be right Murph. But he the only freaking guy to get caught so he is unique.

I can see Luka D, Steph Curry, James Harden, K.Durant,Trey Young, all line up to take HGH..

It don't matter if he shooting 99% if he out the league for 12 Months.

Also, name 1 top 30 player to get caught using HGH in the NBA over the Last 20 years????

So not only is J.Collins a juice head, he the only guy caught using it when nobody gets caught ever!


PASS!!!!!

[Murph]

Look, I love the guy’s competitive spirit.  But at 6’8, is Stewart really the long term solution at center for the Pistons?

I didn’t see the game last night, but perusing at the box score, it looked as if Jokic ate him alive.  Jokic had 28 points, 21 rebounds and 9 assists, to Stewards 0 points and 4 rebounds.

Now don’t get me wrong, no one is going to shut down Jokic.  He was the League MVP  last year.  But you’re not going to win any games, if your center gets out-rebounded by 17.  

With that in mind, the Pistons need to sign a cheap veteran free agent center in the off season, who is big and can rebound and play some semblance of interior defense.  Those guys can be picked up for next to nothing in today’s NBA.  And then bring Stewart off the bench for some instant energy, like Harrell.

The experiment of starting Stewart at center as run its course.

[Murph]

And talking about 3 point shooting.  If I’m Killian Hayes, I’m taking about a million 3 point shots every day in the off season.  I’m hiring a shooting coach and going to the gym about twice a day and chucking 3 pointers for hours.

Hayes needs to plays off the ball and stand at the 3 point line and hit then at an efficient rate. That’s the only chance he has off sticking with the Pistons and the NBA.

[Murph]

IMO, a huge number of professional athletes take HGH sometime in their careers.  I seriously doubt Collins is unique in this.  IMO, that doesn’t disqualify Collins.

The rumor is Collins wants out of Atlanta, not that the Hawks want to dump him.  And that 5 year $125 million contract means that he would stay in Detroit for 4.5 more years.

Look, Weaver wants to build his team around 3 point shooting?...this guy shoots 43% from beyond the arc.

[Phil-Good]

[quote="Murph"]Phil... Collins has a career 61% fg%, and shoots 39% from the 3 point line for his career, and 43% this season.

And he’s a much better rebounder than Grant.  And he’s 3 years younger, bigger, and his contract ties him up for another 4




Stay away from J. Collins.

In 2019 he was caught with GH-RP-2 in his piss. He was suspended 25 games.

Let me try to explain in English what this means.

GH-RP-2 is to expensive to put in or mix into vitamins pill. Usually this stuff is injected into the blood to bypass the liver for premium results.

Also, if Collins was suspended this was not his first time giving dirty test.


PASS!!!!!

I don’t give a s$$$h!!!t if he shooting 88% from the fu/-cking 4pt line. Next time Collins gets caught, he out the league for 1 year minimum. You will not get any relief or exceptions when you dope out for a year. Also Collins just sign a 115 million, 5 year deal!!

Atl is trying to dump the dope  head on somebody and if you just look at the numbers you will be the Next fool! Not me!!


PASSSSS!!!!!!!!!

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