Hayes

[Murph]

Sparma... after 3 preseason games, Hayes is shooting 44%, including 36% from the 3 point line.  And he’s averaging 12 ppg and 6 apg.

That’s exactly where he needs to be.  If he can consistently put up those numbers, he’ll be a valuable member of the rotation and most improved.

Bagley out for less time than expected.  

Go Duren, go!  Sounds like he's been the one real point of light during pre-season.  I'd love to see him get significant minutes straightaway.

And evidently Killian had himself a night vs OKC.  Revamped shooting form; I'll be curious to see if the improved shooting can hold up.

So Bagley will miss 3-4 weeks with a sprained MCL, which really means 6-7 weeks.  That’s good news...sort of.

Casey should take this opportunity to start Duren at center. There’s no time like the present.

[Sparma]

Bagley out for less time than expected.

Go Duren, go! Sounds like he's been the one real point of light during pre-season. I'd love to see him get significant minutes straightaway.

And evidently Killian had himself a night vs OKC. Revamped shooting form; I'll be curious to see if the improved shooting can hold up.

So Bagley will miss 3-4 weeks with a sprained MCL, which really means 6-7 weeks.  That’s good news...sort of.

Casey should take this opportunity to start Duren at center. There’s no time like the present.

[Murph]

So Bagley will miss 3-4 weeks with a sprained MCL, which really means 6-7 weeks. That’s good news...sort of.

Casey should take this opportunity to start Duren at center. There’s no time like the present.

[Murph]

Well, this is certainly turning into an ugly preseason.  I hope Bagley didn’t tear his ACL, and isn’t out for the season.

If Bagley is out for an extended period of time, the Pistons should start Duren at center, with Stewart at PF. Duren has been one of the few positive surprises so far. He rebounds like a maniac, and his BBIQ far exceeds where is should be for an 18 year old. The sky’s the limit on this kid.

[Oracle]

Don & Lemon are stealing my thunder, I felt like 40 or more wins, but was a tad timid.

However, I do think this will be a good season, and I think it's a better team without Grant, not because he wasn't good, but because I think he altered a proper flow of offense for the team that we need for them to develop properly.

I think Bogdanovic will be better, at least offensively and complements what we need right now better. My only fear is health, and I hope MBIII isn't hurt too bad!

2022-2023 Regular Season
Member	Wins
Cool Breeze	42
Lemonpen	40
Oracle	38
Murph	32
Sparma	30
Phil-Good
BallinD
Stones
DX
Merc
Wise
Sebastian
Fly
Fennis
Sissy

[cool breeze]

I really believe that NBA coaches are extremely lazy. College and high school coaches adjust their offense and defense depending on what type of players are coming in from year to year. They are always adjusting and finding ways to blend in new players with the experienced players. Why is it in stone that all NBA teams have to run the same offense? This Piston team has 1 really fast player and he is a rookie. I know it might take a lot of work by the coaching staff to create a more complex offense than read and react crazy basketball but what if Cade slowed things down a bit and the Pistons actually passed the basketball more than 2 times in each possession? why not use both sides of the floor without throwing a low percentage cross court pass that gets picked off? Why not pull up in transition and set up an offense when the break is not going to result in an uncontested shot. There is nothing more stupid than forcing a shot early in the shot clock in transition when a easy shot around the basket is not there. This team has some really smart players. Why play hot dog low brain power idiotic run and gun style play ground ball and call it the highest level of basketball there is? Who are they fooling? The crowd loves fast paced freaky highlight plays. Maybe do that 2 times a game and the rest of the time play serious hard nosed basketball that involves cutting and screening and solid passing skills. Does Casey know anything about playing the right way? He ponders when looking at the stat sheet and seeing no improvement in turnovers and a ton of 3 point misses. Is the answer still shoot even more 3 point shots?

[cool breeze]

[quote="Murph"]Remember how about once every 5 games, Sekou would actually have a decent game, and we’d all get excited and shout, “This is it!  This is it!  Sekou’s finally turned the corner?”  And then he’d disappear for the next 4 games?  I get that feeling when I watch Killian Hayes.  

Let’s face it, with most NBA players, you know if they’re going to be good right way.  Is there any doubt Saddiq Bay or Jaden Ivey will be stars?  Nope.

But Killian just keeps bricking up shots. Stats don’t lie.  


Sekou gave himself away during his first moments playing in the summer league. How anyone in their right mind could have drafted him is amazing. He had no clue what the fundamentals were especially on defense. He was a lost puppy and it really never changed. The jury is still out for me relating to Killian. i remember that he was making shots and was finishing towards the end of last season. His defense put him in first place among the guards as a defender. Remember Austin Daye who lit up it up in training camp during pre season games making 3 point shots. Everyone was so excited about him. I knew that he would be a bust the moment Joe Dumars drafted him. That doesn't make me smart saying that because every college coach who's team played against Gonzaga during his one season in college knew Daye was the weak link on the team because he could defend anyone. Amazing that Joe's team of scouts didn't know that but in those times Piston scouts or the first office did much real work when it came to the draft. The coach at Gonzaga tried hard to hide Daye by playing a match up zones with Daye just standing in the paint. My point is that I don't believe Hayes fits this obvious thing that both Daye and Sekou showed. But it was good you brought up Seku because he didn't have a clue how to play basketball when he was drafted.

[cool breeze]

The Pistons have some new players who should become key guys who will make defensive and offensive plays to win games in crunch time. But it will take time for the team to find out which groups fit best together. Paint defense has to be better this season and turnovers need to diminish which will be a challenge especially because Casey wants to play fast. But this team could become solid maybe playing more under control and running a more complex offense. Overall team shooting percentage should really improve this year. But for awhile it appears turnovers will really hurt the team's chances to win.

My best guess for total wins is 42 which is way more than the experts have stated because I think the team will be capable of stringing together some big winning streaks. This team should be a really fun team to watch and attendance should greatly improve if fans can afford to buy tickets this season.

[lemonpen]

 

2022-2023 Regular Season
Member	Wins
Oracle	38
Murph	32
Sparma	30
Phil-Good
Lemonpen
BallinD
Stones
DX
Merc
Cool Breeze
Wise
Sebastian
Fly
Fennis
Sissy

Put me down for 40 please.

[Oracle]

2022-2023 Regular Season
Member	Wins
Oracle	38
Murph	32
Sparma	30
Phil-Good
Lemonpen
BallinD
Stones
DX
Merc
Cool Breeze
Wise
Sebastian
Fly
Fennis
Sissy

[Murph]

Remember how about once every 5 games, Sekou would actually have a decent game, and we’d all get excited and shout, “This is it! This is it! Sekou’s finally turned the corner?” And then he’d disappear for the next 4 games? I get that feeling when I watch Killian Hayes.

Let’s face it, with most NBA players, you know if they’re going to be good right way. Is there any doubt Saddiq Bay or Jaden Ivey will be stars? Nope.

But Killian just keeps bricking up shots. Stats don’t lie.

[Murph]

The Pistons should sign Saben Lee to a two way contract and cut Buddy Boeheim.  Who cares if Dwane Casey is Jimmy Boeheim’s pal?  Buddy sucks!  

The Pistons should show some loyalty to their own damn draft picks!!!  They need to re-sign and develop Lee.  There is no reason Lee could not develop into a reliable 3rd string PG, after CoJo’s contract expires.

And let’s be real.  Lee has played a whole lot better than Killian Hayes who was from the same draft class. So maybe Lee could develop into the Pistons 2nd string PG, once Killian Hayes finally washes out and leaves to play in Europe.


Sparma... the Warriors would be insane to trade either Draymond or Poole.  They’re both professionals making millions a year.  Force them to shake hands and move on.


Oracle...32 wins.

[Sparma]

After Draymond Green slugged Poole, the trade rumors began to fly in earnest. One version includes Isaiah Stewart going out for Draymond. No thanks. If Draymond wants to join as vet mentor (well, part of the time) on something like the mid-level exception next year, go for it. Otherwise, I'd pass. The idea that we'd include a 1st too, even "heavily-protected" is nuts. If G.S. wants to include a first, we could talk.

Clutch Points:

"With this trade, the Pistons would send veterans Bojan Bogdanovic and Nerlens Noel to the Warriors in exchange for Green. Maybe Detroit would even send a heavily-protected first-round pick to the Bay Area as well."

btw, it's a good thing for the Bad Boys that covert video recordings of practice run ins couldn't be sold to the media back then.

[Sparma]

I've only watched a few minutes of Wembanyama (during which he's looked great), so what do I know?
I do know that commentators are going nuts about the guy. Brian Windhorst has basically built a career off of LeBron, writing three [!?] books about him. He watched one of Victor's two coming out games last week, and compared it to a super-hyped coming out game by LeBron (about whom we already knew as a younger teen). Windhorst said that as great as LeBron was in that game as a teen, Victor was greater in this game. He's not predicting Victor's going to be the greater player for his career, but, still, you can't really praise a prospect more highly. In addition to worries about staying in the game by avoiding fouls, the biggest caveat is the higher than usual probability that injuries will fell him.

I agree that we won't be getting Victor anyway.

On a podcast, the Thompson Twins (not the musicians) were receiving high praise as super athletic, great defenders (who can't shoot, yet). Tankathon projects us at #7 now. Amen's at #5 and Ausar at #8, so that might be something to keep an eye on.

Sparma...I very well could be wrong about Wembanyama. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time. For better or worse, it’s highly doubtful the Pistons will get a shot at him.  We’ll be bad this season, but not bad enough for a shot at the #1 pick.  


Don...I find your trashing of Ish Smith to be perplexing.  I was never a big Ish fan, but his best season was 17-18.  That year, Ish averaged 10.9 ppg, 4.4 apg, and shot 49% from the floor, including 35% on 3s.  And that year, the Pistons won 39 games.  This will be Ish’s 13th season in the NBA.  

Let’s face it, if Hayes shot like that, or had a season like that, or a career like that, or if the ‘Stones win 39 games this year, everyone would be going crazy talking about what a genius Weaver is.  

Let’s try to keep things in perspective.


Frank Vogel is still unemployed.  He’s 49 years old, with an NBA championship under his belt.  He’s coached 11 seasons, has a .526 winning percentage and a .557 playoff winning percentage.  Meanwhile, Casey is 66 years old and has lost 505 career regular season games.  

Could we hire Vogel please???


Julius Randle out-weighs Bojan by 25 lbs.  Zion out-weighs him by 60 lbs.  How’s Bojan supposed to guard these guys in the paint?

[Sparma]

Thanks for keeping track of that again, Oracle.

I'll go with 30 wins, 30-52.

As a reminder, here is what happened last season. 

They finished 23-59, which made Murph the winner. 

So get me the predictions, and Good Luck to everybody!!!

2021-2022 Regular Season
Member	Wins
Oracle	38
Phil-Good	35
Lemonpen	33
Sparma	26
Murph	25
BallinD
Stones
DX
Merc
Cool Breeze
Wise
Sebastian
Fly
Fennis
Sissy

[Oracle]

As a reminder, here is what happened last season. 

They finished 23-59, which made Murph the winner. 

So get me the predictions, and Good Luck to everybody!!!

2021-2022 Regular Season
Member	Wins
Oracle	38
Phil-Good	35
Lemonpen	33
Sparma	26
Murph	25
BallinD
Stones
DX
Merc
Cool Breeze
Wise
Sebastian
Fly
Fennis
Sissy

[Murph]

Sparma...I very well could be wrong about Wembanyama. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time. For better or worse, it’s highly doubtful the Pistons will get a shot at him.  We’ll be bad this season, but not bad enough for a shot at the #1 pick.  


Don...I find your trashing of Ish Smith to be perplexing.  I was never a big Ish fan, but his best season was 17-18.  That year, Ish averaged 10.9 ppg, 4.4 apg, and shot 49% from the floor, including 35% on 3s.  And that year, the Pistons won 39 games.  This will be Ish’s 13th season in the NBA.  

Let’s face it, if Hayes shot like that, or had a season like that, or a career like that, or if the ‘Stones win 39 games this year, everyone would be going crazy talking about what a genius Weaver is.  

Let’s try to keep things in perspective.


Frank Vogel is still unemployed.  He’s 49 years old, with an NBA championship under his belt.  He’s coached 11 seasons, has a .526 winning percentage and a .557 playoff winning percentage.  Meanwhile, Casey is 66 years old and has lost 505 career regular season games.  

Could we hire Vogel please???


Julius Randle out-weighs Bojan by 25 lbs. Zion out-weighs him by 60 lbs. How’s Bojan supposed to guard these guys in the paint?

[cool breeze]

My thought is let's keep our fingers crossed that our key players Cunningham and Bey come out of training camp injury free along with the other established vets and our rookie guard who played so well in the last game. Some of the key guys are not playing now because of injuries. But based on this first game Ivey perhaps should have been the overall number 1 pick. We got him isn't that crazy?

The players who need to show if they belong long term are Hayes and Stewart. Can Beef Stew do this basic thing right this season - catch the ball and finish with a dunk in the paint? So many times Cade was charged with a turnover after he made a perfect pass to Stewart who would fumble the ball out of bounds. The other big question mark with Stewart is his lack of jumping ability off the jump stop. He is undersized playing center and cannot seem to increase the height of his jump when planted in the paint. He somewhat makes up for that by boxing out well. But this weakness of not being able to get off the floor fast enough and high enough affects his success on offense with the pick and roll as well. Ben Wallace was a crafty quick jumper who had that sixth sense of where the ball would be coming off the rim and that made him shine with the Pistons relating to shot blocking and rebounding. Stewart's future as a starting center especially against bigger opponent centers is very questionable. He has a real fight on his hands in my opinion especially after this last game where his rebounding stat was horrible. His best position might be power forward but regarding both center and power forward, Beef Stew might be coming off the bench filling in at both positions to secure playing time. The competition for playing time should make for some real interesting practices in training camp. And Noel is not yet cleared to play. Noel if healthy, he will completely change the look of Piston paint defense. We were so damn soft last season regarding our big men when thinking of defense in crunch time especially relating our paint defense. Casey and his staff will remember who was playing during that time at the center position and that could hurt Stewart's chances. Meanwhile it appears young Jalen Duren is licking his chops hungry as a wolf who hasn't eaten for a week. This young man will learn a lot from Noel this season. What a great pick up by Weaver. I was wondering why all the experts had already penciled in Stewart as the starting center for the Detroit Pistons.

Can't wait for the regular season to begin. Go Pistons!

[Murph]

Welcome back Phil.

Does Ivey need to play point, with CC playing off the ball? Who cares where these guys were drafted. Ivey could be that generational Piston PG, like Bing, Zeke and C-Bill. Let’s at least find out.

Hey Piston Fans!! Long time no see..

A few quick points.

1. Somebody go wake up Cade, Bay, Stew, Bagley and tell these guys they had A NBA Game last night. Those guys did not show up at all. I expect better from those guys and I know they will be better. No worries.

2. Ivey looks like a player. He is a guy who makes things happen with the ball in his hands. Impressive. This kid has a strong chance of winning rookie of the year!

Later Pistons fans!!

[Phil-Good]

Hey Piston Fans!! Long time no see..

A few quick points.

1. Somebody go wake up Cade, Bay, Stew, Bagley and tell these guys they had A NBA Game last night. Those guys did not show up at all. I expect better from those guys and I know they will be better. No worries.

2. Ivey looks like a player. He is a guy who makes things happen with the ball in his hands. Impressive. This kid has a strong chance of winning rookie of the year!

3. Boston coach. For anybody who don't know what the deal is. The guy was F>U.C.K.I.N.G the owner wife!!

He might be done in the NBA as a head coach.


Later Pistons fans!!

[Murph]

Well, that was certainly an inauspicious start.  I have a couple of observations.  Ivey needs to touch the ball much, much more.  And Cunningham need to touch the ball less.

Bojan shoots well, but he looks too small out there. Should he really be staring at PF?  Bagley might be a better choice in the starting lineup.

Duran looked really good.  He’s a monster on the glass.


Would this team play better with a better coach?

[Sparma]

Murph, you know I think you've got the best track record as talent evaluator on the forum (with due respect to Don for his in-depth insights).  And I agree with you that super-tall thin guys incur special injury risks.  That said, if you're right about Wembanyana not being worth the risk of drafting if the Pistons are in a position to do so next year [hope I'm paraphrasing you accurately there!], then a whole bunch of people are bad talent evaluators.  Stay tuned!  You may yet be proven to be right given the high injury risk.

The following folks are among those cited in a Sporting News article about whether Victor is the best prospect since LeBron (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/victor-wembanyama-nba-draft-prospect-lebron-james/tahdqvkwbib75ug33c6cfqe9):

"Jordan Greer (@jordangreer42): Look, NBA Draft experts don't always nail their evaluations. But when a lot of smart people are telling you the same thing, maybe you should listen.

Trail Blazers executive and former ESPN analyst Mike Schmitz: "I've long considered the 18-year-old French big man the best prospect I've personally ever evaluated."

The Athletic's Sam Vecenie: "It's difficult to say anything other than that Wembanyama's ceiling is higher than that of anyone who has entered the league in a while. These tools are just so outrageous."

SB Nation's Ricky O'Donnell: "The 2023 NBA Draft will be all about Victor Wembanyama, the best prospect since LeBron."

Yahoo Sports' Krysten Peek: "Wembanyama is the most talked-about prospect among NBA scouts and executives since LeBron James in 2003 and is the runaway favorite for the No. 1 pick in the 2023 NBA draft by a mile. The French native will be the biggest and most talented import from overseas ever, trumping Luka Doncic and two-time MVP Nikola Jokic.""

[Murph]

Don...I hope you’re right about Hayes.  He was our #7 pick, after all.  No one wants to see him turn into a bust.  

He does a lot of things well.  But in order to succeed in today’s NBA, he has to improve his shooting substantially.  He doesn’t even have to be a good shooter; he just can’t be a terrible shooter.

[cool breeze]

It sure would be nice if Hayes would fix his damn shot. I see the Pistons picked up his $7.4 million option for 23-24.  That means that barring a trade, Hayes will be here for at least 2 more years.

He’s already a good playmaker and excellent defender.  But he’s a career 37% shooter from the floor, including 27% from behind the arc.  

What does Hayes need to shoot in order to become a viable long term piece of the rotation?  I’d say this year, he needs to shoot a minimum of 40% from the floor, including 32% from behind the arc.  

Ok I admit it, 32% from 3 point land this year is a pipe dream.  But Hayes needs to get his ass in gear and soon.  Time is running out on his development.

It is incredible when thinking about where the Pistons were before Weaver ran the front office compared to the dark days where there really was a feeling of sadness when thinking about the Detroit Pistons. Stan Van Gundy and the ownership actually almost destroyed the franchise. Now we can worry about Hayes improving his overall shooting percentage. What Hayes has going for himself is his dedication to becoming a very good defender, passer/play maker. We no longer have a backup point guard who's name is Ish Smith the undersized ball dominate guy who was a defensive liability. In the past previous front office leadership the Pistons were attracted to small quick point guards to provide a circus act for fans who didn't know much about basketball. Remember Will Bynum? The jury is still out in my mind as to the actual value of Killian Hayes. He has really good size and quickness. He is still very young. is it set in stone that Hayes in the end will not become the starting backcourt player who wins a championship with Cade? We haven't actually seen Ivey play an NBA game yet. Summer league is one thing and regular season games is another. My concern with Hayes is not his shooting as much as this player becoming an elite play maker who creates very few turnovers. What will Ivey's turnovers look like this season? I suspect because he plays at a fast pace he will be making a lot of mistakes. So how much playing time will he secure if that happens? What about Ivey's defense? Can he stay out of foul trouble early in his career? I am thinking that there is going to be a real battle with all the guards on this roster for playing time. I hope the coaching staff actual rewards the players who are helping the team most. This is so exciting because we have so many really hard nosed high energy players competing against each other. The coaching staff is key now. They have to do the right thing for the team and playing time needs to go to the best players regardless of age etc. Otherwise it will be the coaching staff that destroys team chemistry. Players know what is going on. You can't reward rookie players unless they earn it and that includes our rookie center.

Detroit is going to be a tough out for every team in the league this year if the Pistons play with the same heart they showed in the last half of last season. Cade has gained 10 pounds of muscle. Bey is a work dog always trying to get better. Those two players to me are the drivers of the mind set this team should have this coming season. Fantastic team chemistry creates great things and makes playing the game exceptionally fun and when it comes to winning games, superior team chemistry can defeat superior talent on teams will average to below average team chemistry. Even when you play well as a team and lose a close game, players feel HOPE and will strive for more knowing that they are really close to becoming an elite team. Looking at this current roster, there is no way any previous Piston team in recent history before Bey and Cunningham arrived would not get their asses kicked and blown out in any matchup. These two players want to win now not in 3 years.

I wonder exactly which position Stewart should be playing now. I think you are right that his best fit is at power forward. He could shut down opposing power forwards on defense. Everything depends on his offensive ability and he seems to have really improved in that area. I like Bagley at center too but he has to improve as a defender. If Noel can have a lucky season and stay healthy I expect to see him play most of the crunch time minutes. Noel brings really solid stability to paint defense that the Pistons have lacked for many years. And Noel is still not that old. Our rookie center should be playing a lot of minutes in the G League for the first few months unless he is a quick learner. Nothing worse than playing a guy like him for 3 to 5 minutes a game or no minutes at all. Let's hope we have a competent coaching staff. There will be a lot of tough decisions to make. Go Pistons!

[Murph]

It sure would be nice if Hayes would fix his damn shot. I see the Pistons picked up his $7.4 million option for 23-24. That means that barring a trade, Hayes will be here for at least 2 more years.

He’s already a good playmaker and excellent defender. But he’s a career 37% shooter from the floor, including 27% from behind the arc.

What does Hayes need to shoot in order to become a viable long term piece of the rotation? I’d say this year, he needs to shoot a minimum of 40% from the floor, including 32% from behind the arc.

Ok I admit it, 32% from 3 point land this year is a pipe dream. But Hayes needs to get his ass in gear and soon. Time is running out on his development.

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