What will SVG and the Piston's owner say now after Mitchell scores 38 points to beat the Thunder?

[cool breeze]

It is as easy to identify the smart front office executives from the dumb as it is when it comes to NBA coaching staffs. Too bad the Pistons have the dumb and dumber running both entities. While I explored the Pacers decision making skills it is just as easy to compare the Pistons to Utah. Utah never says in the dumb mode for long. They lose a star player to Boston and the Pistons have a mind fart on Mitchell and bam Utah hits a home run. But this was no fluke. When owners have personal attachments with players, hire inept front office planners, ignore the advise of the head coach and GM to sign an often injured former semi star, protect the starting point guard from competition because one player has a special relationship with that point guard, then all bets are off relating to creating a roster any sane person can understand. Going into next season the Pistons are banking on AD, BG and RJ along with Jon Leuer and Langston Galloway. Plus the Pistons gave away their first round pick because the owner got tired of negotiating. Or was it Brower and SVG who were in charge of the negotiations with the Clippers? The rest of the roster players take a look at who is making all the money and must feel sick about being on this Piston team.

Reggie Jackson looks feeble. He has old legs. Reggie looks like he is gasping for air after expending energy on offense especially in the last two seasons. I had thought this would be his last season with the Pistons but he has two years to go. AD loves Reggie so that is the way it will be. No turning back now. Everything is in Reggie Jackson's hands. Meanwhile, Jackson is the worst starting defensive point guard in the league. Nobody else is close to his incompetence. What are the odds of Jackson playing 75% of the regular season games. Jackson was not a starter before he signed his Piston contract. No coach could trust him on defense and no coach liked his ball dominance tendencies. With all the great guards we have watched for the Pistons in the past, where does Jackson rank as a starter? Can he compete with point guards currently in the playoffs or who played for teams that made the playoffs? Why would an owner or GM ever spend that kind of money on a player like Reggie Jackson? Reggie is not going to get better. Yet Piston management never worried about that possibility. They are selling the story line - a healthy Reggie will bring dividends when he forms the trio. Three mega stars to go with Leuer and Galloway.

AD is the empty headed stat accumulator and close friend of the owner. He might improve some this next season but his basketball IQ is not good enough in my opinion. If he is engaged will be the big question that has haunted him for his entire career. The Pistons might be able to trade him now and should just to reduce their payroll. But that is not going to happen.

Blake Griffin most likely will be sitting on the bench with Reggie as the injuries pile up relating to his knees and back. The tough get going in January and February because that is when the body really starts hurting. The beauty of those guaranteed contracts is that if you are a star, you can do as you please. Remember Zeke who played through the pain exceptionally well. He hated losing unlike our Big 5. They are used to losing. It is nothing new for them.

Galloway was in and out of the rotation this year. Why did the Pistons give him a big long term contract? Indiana only gave one year contracts to proven playoff players for close to the money Leuer and Galloway received. Does SVG have such a low opinion of Detroit that he thinks no player will sign a contract unless they over pay them.

Leuer got his butt kicked by everyone in the league two seasons ago. He can't defend either centers or power forwards. His mid range game is below average. His 3 point shooting skill set is unreliable. So why was he offered a long term $10 mil contract? Did he have playoff experience? Was he a key player on his previous Suns team? No he failed the test in Phoenix. His worth might have been in the $3Mil range for one season. What team was competing with the Pistons for his services? I don't hate Leuer. He is a good man and he got real lucky. Good for him. But SVG has failed the test badly. He has failed as the coach and President.The Pistons are worse off now than any time that I can remember. That is due to the size of immoveable contracts. Five contracts involving BG. RJ, AD, JL and LG have taken away HOPE. What team looking to improve their team would be calling the Pistons this summer or at the end of next season? Only one player has any chance of being moved. This team cannot beat any good team on a night when that team is playing well. The Pistons need to catch teams on their off nights. The highest paid player are not capable or running a complex offense where the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option is an option. The BG is the only player with a high basketball IQ within that group of the 5 highest paid Piston players.

Discussing players like Kennard, Henry E., Bullock, Johnson and Moreland can be fun but they are not in a position to become team leaders. The highest paid players are always the players coaches are forced to play and they have a big impact on how things will be fun. I see no way there is a future for Stanley Johnson on this team due to the current payroll structure. They will not be able to afford his new contract so expect another low IQ trade by our Piston management team. I just hope they get a draft pick for him.

If anyone can make any sense of what has happened speak up? Otherwise it is time to sign off for the summer.

[cool breeze]

Has Murph been hired by SVG to distract Piston fans from realizing total destruction has taken place relating to the Pistons future? I must be Johnson's fault as to why the Pistons suck. It can't be the fault of the way this roster was constructed by a silly owner and perhaps a President, GM and head coach who is completely incompetent or intentionally destroyed the Detroit Pistons. A 15 year old kid who never watched an NBA game could have done a much better job constructing this Piston team. After watching the Cleveland-Indiana game, I decided to take a look at the Pacers financial picture compared with the Pistons. The results are SHOCKING. Here are the facts that Piston fans should be concentrating on instead of spending time in the sewer with Murph.

In 2017 Pacers President Kevin Pritchard hired 44 year old Chad Buchanan as their new GM. As of today Indiana's payroll stands at $179,466,695. Meanwhile the Piston's payroll currently is $370,165,932. While Tom Gores has treated the Pistons as his play thing with this weird relationship with AD, the Pacers owner has two smart executives who might be the smarted duo in the entire NBA. It is clear that the combination of insanity by the owner and the incompetence of SVG and his large staff if idiots are pure poison. I am now going to compare the current rosters of the two franchises. We Piston fans have been betrayed for sure as you will see.

PACERS DATA:
Pacers current roster players - Age - contract length- 2018-19 Salary

Victor Oladipo                         25          4 yrs                 $21M
Thaddeus Young                     29         last year             $13,754,045
Bojan Boganovic                     29         last year             $10,500,000
Darren Collison                       30         last year             $10,000,000
Al Jefferson                            33         last year             $10,000,000
Cory Joseph                           26         last year             $7,945,000
Lance Stevenson                    27         last year             $4,360.000
Miles Turner                           22         last year             $3,410,000
Domantas Sebonis                  21         first year Rookie  $2,659,800
Glen Robinson                        24         last year              $1,524,305
Joe Young                              25         last year              $1,600,520
Ike Anigbogu                         19         exp. 2020             $1,378,242
Monte Ellis (waived)               33        through 2022         $2,245,400
TJ Leaf                                  20       first year rookie      $2,407,560    

PISTON DATA: TOTAL PAYROLL $370,165,932

Blake Griffin                         29       expires 2022           $31,873,932 - $38,957,028
Andre Drummond                 24       expires (PO) 2021   $25,434,263 - $28,751,775
Reggie Jackson                     28       expires 2020          $17,043,478 - $18,086,956
Jon Leuer                             28       expires 2020          $10,002,000 - $9,508,043
Lanston Galloway                  26       expires 2020          $7,000,000 $7,333,333
Ish Smith                             29       last year                $6,000,000
Stanley Johnson                    21      last year Rookie      $3,940,000
Reggie Bullock                      27       last year                $2,500,000
Luke Kennard                       21       first year R. 2021   $3,275,280 - $5,275,280
Nelson (aka Butter Ball)                   Gone
Henry Ellenson                     21       expires 2020          $1,826,300 -$1,913,267
Eric Moreland                       26       expires 2020          $1,826,300 - $1,913,267
Anthony Tolliver                   32       Gone                    Last season - $3,290,000
Josh Smith                                     2020                      $5,400,000

look at the top highest paid Piston players and compare those players with any other roster in the league. Plus I believe as many others do that Anthony Tolliver was the most valuable player on the team last season. His spirit, effort and skill made him my pick for MVP. Meanwhile, Leuer was not in the rotation of the Suns when the Pistons signed him to his lucky contract. Add Galloway's contract and you can see how the Piston front office has destroyed everything. Why didn't they pick up some of the players the Pacers got so easily at a reasonable price? Just watching Jeff Brower and SVG walk together at the chicago Combine last summer gave me a sick feeling. They do not look healthy and are extremely over weight. Those two together passing on Mitchell and signing 4th rate players at a high price makes me suspicious that they were trying to destroy the franchise. Meanwhile, Tom Gores did the most damage when he want against advise of everyone in the Pistons front office when he made that trade with the Clippers. He helped the Clippers for sure. He moved the Pistons downtown so they could play in an empty arena. The Pacer fans can get a good laugh knowing they have clever planners who have a hard working smart team that has taken Labron James to the 7th game in the first round of the playoffs. The Pistons with that roster are toast with that roster. But Murph is very concerned about Stanley Johnson who for sure will not be with the Pistons for long. Good for him. In his position, who would not want out? No player in his right mind would want to get stuck on this Piston team knowing which players are making all the money. We are screwed and the players making the least amount of money are screwed.

I forgot to include the fact that the Pacers will be drafting in the first round unlike our Pistons. It really doesn't matter now if SVG is fired. What does matter is if that happens that nobody in the current front office staff is retained or elevated into the GM position. They all should go along with SVG. That also includes the entire coaching staff. Focus on the contracts. I see no chance of any of the top 5 highest paid Pistons offering trade material. Johnson's contract will expire and he will be a free agent too so unless a sign and trade could be worked out, Johnson's trade value is nil. We need to forget this team.

[cool breeze]

Has Murph been hired by SVG to distract Piston fans from realizing total destruction has taken place relating to the Pistons future? I must be Johnson's fault as to why the Pistons suck. It can't be the fault of the way this roster was constructed by a silly owner and perhaps a President, GM and head coach who is completely incompetent or intentionally destroyed the Detroit Pistons. A 15 year old kid who never watched an NBA game could have done a much better job constructing this Piston team. After watching the Cleveland-Indiana game, I decided to take a look at the Pacers financial picture compared with the Pistons. The results are SHOCKING. Here are the facts that Piston fans should be concentrating on instead of spending time in the sewer with Murph.

In 2017 Pacers President Kevin Pritchard hired 44 year old Chad Buchanan as their new GM. As of today Indiana's payroll stands at $179,466,695. Meanwhile the Piston's payroll currently is $370,165,932. While Tom Gores has treated the Pistons as his play thing with this weird relationship with AD, the Pacers owner has two smart executives who might be the smarted duo in the entire NBA. It is clear that the combination of insanity by the owner and the incompetence of SVG and his large staff if idiots are pure poison. I am now going to compare the current rosters of the two franchises. We Piston fans have been betrayed for sure as you will see.

PACERS DATA:
Pacers current roster players - Age - contract length- 2018-19 Salary

Victor Oladipo 25 4 yrs $21M
Thaddeus Young 29 last year $13,754,045
Bojan Boganovic 29 last year $10,500,000
Darren Collison 30 last year $10,000,000
Al Jefferson 33 last year $10,000,000
Cory Joseph 26 last year $7,945,000
Lance Stevenson 27 last year $4,360.000
Miles Turner 22 last year $3,410,000
Domantas Sebonis 21 first year Rookie $2,659,800
Glen Robinson 24 last year $1,524,305
Joe Young 25 last year $1,600,520
Ike Anigbogu 19 exp. 2020 $1,378,242
Monte Ellis (waived) 33 through 2022 $2,245,400
TJ Leaf 20 first year rookie $2,407,560

PISTON DATA: TOTAL PAYROLL $370,165,932

Blake Griffin 29 expires 2022 $31,873,932 - $38,957,028
Andre Drummond 24 expires (PO) 2021 $25,434,263 - $28,751,775
Reggie Jackson 28 expires 2020 $17,043,478 - $18,086,956
Jon Leuer 28 expires 2020 $10,002,000 - $9,508,043
Lanston Galloway 26 expires 2020 $7,000,000 $7,333,333
Ish Smith 29 last year $6,000,000
Stanley Johnson 21 last year Rookie $3,940,000
Reggie Bullock 27 last year $2,500,000
Luke Kennard 21 first year R. 2021 $3,275,280 - $5,275,280
Nelson (aka Butter Ball) Gone
Henry Ellenson 21 expires 2020 $1,826,300 -$1,913,267
Eric Moreland 26 expires 2020 $1,826,300 - $1,913,267
Anthony Tolliver 32 Gone Last season - $3,290,000
Josh Smith 2020 $5,400,000

look at the top highest paid Piston players and compare those players with any other roster in the league. Plus I believe as many others do that Anthony Tolliver was the most valuable player on the team last season. His spirit, effort and skill made him my pick for MVP. Meanwhile, Leuer was not in the rotation of the Suns when the Pistons signed him to his lucky contract. Add Galloway's contract and you can see how the Piston front office has destroyed everything. Why didn't they pick up some of the players the Pacers got so easily at a reasonable price? Just watching Jeff Brower and SVG walk together at the chicago Combine last summer gave me a sick feeling. They do not look healthy and are extremely over weight. Those two together passing on Mitchell and signing 4th rate players at a high price makes me suspicious that they were trying to destroy the franchise. Meanwhile, Tom Gores did the most damage when he want against advise of everyone in the Pistons front office when he made that trade with the Clippers. He helped the Clippers for sure. He moved the Pistons downtown so they could play in an empty arena. The Pacer fans can get a good laugh knowing they have clever planners who have a hard working smart team that has taken Labron James to the 7th game in the first round of the playoffs. The Pistons with that roster are toast with that roster. But Murph is very concerned about Stanley Johnson who for sure will not be with the Pistons for long. Good for him. In his position, who would not want out? No player in his right mind would want to get stuck on this Piston team knowing which players are making all the money. We are screwed and the players making the least amount of money are screwed.

[Murph]

And I would be ashamed to be an alum of such a miserable school.  

79% acceptance rate?  I'm surprised you could even get in there.

[Murph]

Stanley Johnson sucks big donkey dong.

[cool breeze]

The forgotten man in the series is Greg Monroe. I am not sure why is is not getting much playing time but would guess that he is not on the floor because he can't play defense against anyone well except for our Andre Drummond. The Pistons cannot match the talent that any of the playoff teams currently have on their rosters. The Pistons have fallen to the bottom of the heap. The Piston front office have been masters at creating rosters that finish either with the 8th seed with no chance of winning one game or in that pack who are mediocre teams that seldom get a really good draft pick. Some of the playoff teams have such smart GMs that they still managed to not only be successful in the playoffs but still use their draft picks so well that they end up with some of the best players while drafting behind our Pistons. Most of the playoff teams have 8 to 9 players who know how to play basketball well, are fundamentally sound, plus they all play with high energy and look highly engaged. These players know that you have to play together and sacrifice for each other or you will lose. Many teams who seldom make the playoffs have players who accumulate great stats who never buy in to sacrificing what you want for yourself to play a different way to make the team better. That is something our key players do not know.

THE PISTONS CURRENT FINANCIAL POSITION PROVES THE INCOMPETENCE OF THE OWNER AND HIS FRONT OFFICE. Smart GMs and owners believe in balance within the roster. Successful teams do not ignore the value of the draft. Good teams need a blend of young talented players on their first contracts with some proven war tested vets who know how to lead others and teach other teammates how to win. Last season, Marcus Morris tried with the players only meeting to convince his teammates that if they stay on the same course with AD and RJ running the show, then the blowouts will continue. The owner decided he didn't mind the blowouts and was content to allow his chosen one AD to be known as the team leader. SVG was also content with losing so in my opinion, the team after the players only meeting was perhaps the worst Piston team that Have seen in my lifetime. They had no spirit. They were impossible to cheer for anymore. And with that said, this owner never learned one thing from that dismal season. Morris was moved. Now he is very effective playing with better teammates and a great coach.

This owner, SVG, Brower and al the underlings in the front office are responsible for creating the BIG THREE. Most of the Piston's payroll is going to those three players. The financial picture is not pretty. There is no balance. Two of the players, AD and RJ would not be highly sought players by any team currently playing in the playoffs. Most likely both would be on the bench like Greg Monroe if they were on one of those teams. And their GM would be on the phone trying to move them much like the Clippers did with Blake Griffin. By the way how many games has Griffin competed in relating to the playoffs? I think if healthy he would fit in but I do not think AD or RJ could fit in. They are both too slow mentally to hold their own on defense and not smart enough to play on a top tier team that can run the 2nd, 3rd and 4th options in a more complex half court offense. I come to the conclusion that no current teams would be agreeable to take on the contracts of Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin or Andre Drummond. Wouldn't the Bucks pass on Drummond when they have a young guy on a small contract in Maker? Since he has been in the starting lineup the Bucks paint defense has become much better. And Maker is a skinny young kid with very little basketball experience. So for the Bucks, AD and his $20+ million a year would make every GM hesitate regardless of his stats that Piston management love to promote. Can AD play defense good enough to make an impact in the playoffs when the game speeds up and all the top players challenge the defenders in the paint all of the time. What if Danny Ainge believes that Brad Stevens can create the monster defensive ace that we Piston fans want from him. AD wants to improve on his offense. He is given a green light to do as he wishes with the Pistons due to his special relationship with the owner. What if Stevens could get AD on the right path and he does unleash his full potential as a player? Boston needs a center. The Pistons need better financial balance and a number on draft pick. Trading AD to Boston could be a good thing for both teams. Detroit could get some battle tested players with a high draft pick. Boston gets their paint protector.

Drummond is the only player in the BIG THREE crew that is tradable. Nobody wants Reggie Jackson except SVG and Andre Drummond relating to people who get a pay check in the NBA. However, I do not believe that Brad Stevens wants to coach AD. Nobody wants to coach AD. And all the Pistons really have is a fat payroll with 3 alleged stars that no GM would take a gamble on due to the size of their contracts and their playing history. Soon their only option relating to making a trade will involve Stanley Johnson. Johnson should jump at the chance of taking a sign and trade deal even though he will be free after next season. Playing another season with Jackson making all of the decisions should make any player run for the fences. Could the Pistons get an expiring contract player and a number one pick at least? Who knows but teams do know about his effort and defensive ability. Making that deal could have a positive effect being that the Pistons will lose their only competent defender which should create more loses and get them a higher pick the following summer. The Pistons trading options are almost non existent. But if SVG gets Leuer in the starting lineup again, Griffin's knees swell to the point he can't play, RJ plays his normal defense, AD plays his normal defense, then maybe just maybe the Pistons could get a lop 5 pick next year. So all of you who are paying to watch the Pistons. make sure you call to cancel your subscription before the first regular season game or you will get charged and be forced to watch the Big Three lineup for the tip off after a summer of bonding. Some of you will be crying and screaming for the coach to play Buycks. But Buycks might be included in the Stanley Johnson trade. Can't create too much competition for our highly paid point guards. Piston management is pretty clever to always eliminate completion for playing time when it comes to the PT Barum promotion of their star franchise players who are right on the edge of making the All star team every summer. Nobody in their right mind should want to be the Pistons new GM unless that person is broke.

[Sparma]

That's a convincing top three, Murph. Wilt's the wild card for me; the best stats ever, but just didn't win enough (even granting that Boston had the better team again and again) to sit at the very top.

I don't really care for Lebron or the way the NBA refs give him ridiculous calls, but you have to give the devil his due.  Who in NBA history is better?  

I would take MJ and Kareem over Lebron.

But who else?  Magic?  Wilt?  Kobe?  Shaq?  Duncan?  Maybe.

Bird?  Oscar?  Olajuwon?  Russell?  Definitely not.

It a pretty short list, and Lebron is pretty high up on that list.  And Lebron's career ain't over yet.  If he goes to LA and stays healthy, he could play at a high level for another 5 years.

[Murph]

I don't really care for Lebron or the way the NBA refs give him ridiculous calls, but you have to give the devil his due. Who in NBA history is better?

I would take MJ and Kareem over Lebron.

But who else? Magic? Wilt? Kobe? Shaq? Duncan? Maybe.

Bird? Oscar? Olajuwon? Russell? Definitely not.

It a pretty short list, and Lebron is pretty high up on that list. And Lebron's career ain't over yet. If he goes to LA and stays healthy, he could play at a high level for another 5 years.

[WTF]

I like Bron but why do this generation want to consistently compare him to MJ or say he's better?   Bron is a beast amongst boys compared to the level of competition MJ faced game after game.   Yet it seems this generation can't see beyond the numbers here's just one of the many things they use to make their case and how I rebut them over and over.

1. Lebron was younger than MJ when he went to the Finals and won a Finals and then I rebut Lebron didn't have to beat Bird and Zeke. Lebron should be on the losing end of this debate all the time but I just can't seem to get it in their big hard heads because they swear they're are looking at the great basketball being played.   

I get it they never seen actual basketball being played in the 80's hell the 90's either but it don't keep them from making that claim.  Still when I say to them that MJ would have had 8 undefeated NBA Final had he not took 2 season off they're still not convinced.  

I tried telling them that MJ had to compete against well over the Top 50 Greatest the like of which Lebron has never seen since coming into the league.  If I could just take them back in time to watch 1 full season of the 80's and full season from the 90's of what MJ went through they might think differently

[Oracle]

I have mixed emotions about this one.

I believe that Cosby is as guilty as sin, but I also believe that there wasn't sufficient proof to convict him.

You shouldn't convict people on belief, but evidence, sadly that's justice in America.

[cool breeze]

Our Pistons could be the cannon fodder the NBA front office set up for the Pacers. There is no way the commissioner will allow Indiana to win this hard fought series. Proof was clearly visible throughout the last game relating to the way Labron is allowed to use his off arm. No wonder James works hard on the weights to build muscle to the point where his arms are like steel clubs to be used at will to push-shove-or use the stiff arm when he drives to the basket. There is no doubt that Labron James is an amazing player. But this season the Cavaliers do not have enough playoff caliber players around him. Yet the NBA front office needs Labron to keep the ratings high. He must make it to the finals. Somehow the refs will have to help make that happen.

Thought the last game Labron was pushing off using the left arm as he tried to dribble right. But in Cleveland's next to last possession after a time out the Cavaliers had a side out of bounds play set up. Labron got the ball and young was squared up with Labron trying to prevent the King from going to his right. When Labron put the ball on the floor to take his first step, he hit Young really hard to knock him off balance. Yet Young recovered moving his feet and preventing Labron from getting a clear path to the basket. James then used the old forearm shiver with his left arm again hitting Young in the center of his torso. That was the 2nd non call that any other NBA player would get the whistle for but with the ref's face in the action no call was made. Young never flinched and recovered again to cut Labron off on the baseline. Labron struck young again but with that contact, young was able to get a hand in and knock the ball off Labron's knee and out of bounds. Then James comes back on defense and somehow blocks a shot under the basket. Maybe that was a clean block but if the player who shot it had been Labron there would be no way that a foul would not be called.

Now perhaps the NBA Front office will be tougher on the next game in the Pacers arena. If Indiana wins that game the fix will be in on game 7. Some players can play football during playoff games while most of the players are restricted to playing basketball. The player who never got a call was Bill Laimbeer even if he was struck from the back with a fist.

[cool breeze]

With 1 minute, 56 seconds remaining, an eight-point deficit and the weight of winning a playoff series for the first time in eight years on his shoulders, the Detroit Pistons’ Isiah Thomas began a staggering offensive attack against the New York Knicks.

The record crowd of 21,208 at Joe Louis Arena watched as the 6-foot-1 guard put on an offensive clinic, scoring 16 of his 35 points in the final 1:34 to tie the game at 114-114.

His 3-pointer with 23 seconds left in regulation sent the Detroit loyalists into a frenzy. Thomas might have been able to will the Pistons into overtime, but his efforts were outdone by the Knicks’ Bernard King, who scored 44 points while suffering from the flu to give New York the 127-123 overtime win and clinch the five-game series on April 27, 1984.

“From my point of view, it’s too bad somebody had to lose,” Knicks coach Hubie Brown told the Philadelphia Daily News. “They went out swinging, and Isiah Thomas’ effort in the fourth quarter was a staggering punch to us. Especially when the young man put on such an awesome display of shooting.”

Pistons fans gave their team a rousing round of applause even though the Knicks were moving into the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Boston Celtics.


“I’m not satisfied,” Thomas told the Philadelphia Daily News. “We got respect from a lot of people around the league. But as far as being satisfied — you can never be satisfied.”

Everyone on the Knicks knew where the ball was going, as the Pistons’ final 16 points all came from Thomas. It didn’t matter. He was on a mission to score against any defender who checked him, and it looked like the three-year veteran would very well deliver Detroit after New York turned the ball over late in regulation.

After a timeout, Darrell Walker committed a five-second violation inbounding the ball and turned it over to the Pistons. Detroit called a timeout and then inbounded to Earl Cureton, who handed off to Thomas.

Seconds melted as Thomas milked the clock. Walker locked in on him. The clock struck nine seconds and the Pistons guard began to make his move, but as he did so, Walker finally backed off him. That threw Thomas off balance and allowed the Knicks guard to swipe the ball from him.

”Isiah was penetrating,” Walker told The New York Times. ”I backed up and he kept coming at me. When he finally tried to shoot the ball, I stopped, stuck my hand out and took the ball away from him.”

Even though King was forced to miss eight minutes in the third quarter because of foul trouble, he was still able to put up his fourth straight 40-plus-point playoff game. That brought his series total to 213 points, which was an NBA playoff record for a five-game series. The Los Angeles Lakers’ Elgin Baylor set the record in 1961 when he dropped 197 points against the Pistons.

Bill Cartwright scored 23 of his 29 points in the second half, while New York center Marvin Webster contributed 10 points and three blocks. In overtime, the Knicks played without their first unit, as Rory Sparrow (four points, 10 assists) and Ray Williams (17 points, 12 assists) fouled out, so Walker and Trent Tucker led the way.

Pistons center Bill Laimbeer provided the team with its only lead of overtime when he gathered a missed shot by Thomas and hit a 7-foot fallaway jumper. Detroit led, 116-114, before Tucker tied it with a 19-foot jump shot after a steal.

Detroit missed the next 11 shots, while the Knicks reeled off seven points to give them a 123-116 lead with 1:29 remaining. Thomas had another run in him, nailing a 26-foot try with 1:19 left.

King saw Thomas’ 3-pointer and raised him with a 16-foot turnaround to give New York a six-point lead. Not to be bested, Thomas attacked New York’s defense for a layup. Then the Pistons’ press forced Louis Orr to fumble the ball out of bounds. That led to a Cureton bucket that cut the Knicks’ lead to two.

But that’s as close as Detroit would get, as Cartwright nailed two shots at the free throw line with 37 seconds left to seal the win. Thomas committed his sixth and final foul on the play, and the Knicks could finally exhale.

”I don’t remember a thing about what happened,” King told the Times. “I was so intense. All I know is that I thought we had the game several times but they just kept coming back. They just wouldn’t give up.”

Excellent job on this WTF. I was so sad when Zeke fouled out of that game. He had no help from the refs like Labron does either.

[Murph]

Wise...I never claimed that Monroe was a elite player, or even an All Star. I did think that when he came into the league he showed great promise and some outstanding skills as a low post scorer and rebounder. And I think that if given the right coach, Monroe's defensive deficiencies could have been covered for. Maybe he needed to come off the bench, the way he was used in Boston at the end of the regular season.

And I also think the combination of Drummond, Josh Smith and Monroe could have been valuable as well. Smith was clearly never a SF. However, I think a good coach could have started either Drummond or Monroe at center, with Smith at PF, or some other combination of the three.

However, we never got that good coach. Van Gundy came in, cut Smith half was through the season and ate his salary, and then promptly dumped Monroe for nothing in return.

To my dying day, I will always believe that both Smith and Monroe could have been very valuable to the Pistons, if used the right way by the right coach.

[WTF]

With 1 minute, 56 seconds remaining, an eight-point deficit and the weight of winning a playoff series for the first time in eight years on his shoulders, the Detroit Pistons’ Isiah Thomas began a staggering offensive attack against the New York Knicks.

The record crowd of 21,208 at Joe Louis Arena watched as the 6-foot-1 guard put on an offensive clinic, scoring 16 of his 35 points in the final 1:34 to tie the game at 114-114.

His 3-pointer with 23 seconds left in regulation sent the Detroit loyalists into a frenzy. Thomas might have been able to will the Pistons into overtime, but his efforts were outdone by the Knicks’ Bernard King, who scored 44 points while suffering from the flu to give New York the 127-123 overtime win and clinch the five-game series on April 27, 1984.

“From my point of view, it’s too bad somebody had to lose,” Knicks coach Hubie Brown told the Philadelphia Daily News. “They went out swinging, and Isiah Thomas’ effort in the fourth quarter was a staggering punch to us. Especially when the young man put on such an awesome display of shooting.”

Pistons fans gave their team a rousing round of applause even though the Knicks were moving into the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Boston Celtics.


“I’m not satisfied,” Thomas told the Philadelphia Daily News. “We got respect from a lot of people around the league. But as far as being satisfied — you can never be satisfied.”

Everyone on the Knicks knew where the ball was going, as the Pistons’ final 16 points all came from Thomas. It didn’t matter. He was on a mission to score against any defender who checked him, and it looked like the three-year veteran would very well deliver Detroit after New York turned the ball over late in regulation.

After a timeout, Darrell Walker committed a five-second violation inbounding the ball and turned it over to the Pistons. Detroit called a timeout and then inbounded to Earl Cureton, who handed off to Thomas.

Seconds melted as Thomas milked the clock. Walker locked in on him. The clock struck nine seconds and the Pistons guard began to make his move, but as he did so, Walker finally backed off him. That threw Thomas off balance and allowed the Knicks guard to swipe the ball from him.

”Isiah was penetrating,” Walker told The New York Times. ”I backed up and he kept coming at me. When he finally tried to shoot the ball, I stopped, stuck my hand out and took the ball away from him.”

Even though King was forced to miss eight minutes in the third quarter because of foul trouble, he was still able to put up his fourth straight 40-plus-point playoff game. That brought his series total to 213 points, which was an NBA playoff record for a five-game series. The Los Angeles Lakers’ Elgin Baylor set the record in 1961 when he dropped 197 points against the Pistons.

Bill Cartwright scored 23 of his 29 points in the second half, while New York center Marvin Webster contributed 10 points and three blocks. In overtime, the Knicks played without their first unit, as Rory Sparrow (four points, 10 assists) and Ray Williams (17 points, 12 assists) fouled out, so Walker and Trent Tucker led the way.

Pistons center Bill Laimbeer provided the team with its only lead of overtime when he gathered a missed shot by Thomas and hit a 7-foot fallaway jumper. Detroit led, 116-114, before Tucker tied it with a 19-foot jump shot after a steal.

Detroit missed the next 11 shots, while the Knicks reeled off seven points to give them a 123-116 lead with 1:29 remaining. Thomas had another run in him, nailing a 26-foot try with 1:19 left.

King saw Thomas’ 3-pointer and raised him with a 16-foot turnaround to give New York a six-point lead. Not to be bested, Thomas attacked New York’s defense for a layup. Then the Pistons’ press forced Louis Orr to fumble the ball out of bounds. That led to a Cureton bucket that cut the Knicks’ lead to two.

But that’s as close as Detroit would get, as Cartwright nailed two shots at the free throw line with 37 seconds left to seal the win. Thomas committed his sixth and final foul on the play, and the Knicks could finally exhale.

”I don’t remember a thing about what happened,” King told the Times. “I was so intense. All I know is that I thought we had the game several times but they just kept coming back. They just wouldn’t give up.”

[WTF]

That's what I'm saying Oracle we've seen enough things happen over history we thought improbable only to see something happen.  I think the first mistake many are making is simply assume we're stuck.   

1. I'm not down on the fact that we have BG and AD and that a rebuild is really needed, not saying I'm against a rebuild but is it really needed?   IMO a new coach and a bona-fide floor leader at the PG could do wonders for the team.  I'm just saying I pick 39 wins not because of the roster but because of the dumb coach.  

2. Stop thinking other teams wouldn't want BG and his big contract.  I'm not buying that we were the only ones looking at BG at trade deadline I just think we provided the Clippers the best option.  Truthfully I thought BG was just passing through initially the way Sheed went from ATL to us back in 2004.  I do still think it was the case and someone got cold feet and that contract dropped here.

I don't think BG contract is the worst contract in all NBA, its that we don't like it.  We know we could move these players it's just a matter of making it happen.  Even if we don't move BG next season doesn't mean will have to ride out the full contract.  Something going to give sooner than later.  Did we ever expected Harris to be moved with Bradley?  I don't think we saw that coming no more than we thought BG would be in Pistons uniform.

[Oracle]

But what I don't want is for SVG & Gores to do this...

[Sparma]

WTF: I'm one who believes that with so many planets that may have viable environments, there may be intelligent life out there. So could an alien land on earth and become employed as a journalist and make a world a safer place by using superhuman powers? In my view: yes, it's possible.

It's also extreme unlikely. Consequently, not really worth discussing as a live option.

Are we stuck with Reggie J's contract? No, because if we include a 1st round pick, maybe just a 2nd rounder (a la Ben Gordon), we could move him. My assertion is that in the case mainly of Reggie, but likely also of Griffin, it unlikely that there's an advantageous trade out there. One reason I don't assign 100% blame to SVG for our problems, is that he's done a halfway decent job with trades (with Griffin being the big exception in my book). I think any GM coming in would face big problems with the limited maneuverability. Doesn't mean good things can't happen, just that anyone in that spot will be facing tough odds in dramatically improving the roster beyond what we have (the 7 mil exception provides some hope).

Don writes: "But it wouldn't stop a wholesale rebuild project where the owner could go on the Philly plan and be patient if it takes 6 years."

My Gortat & Wall for Drummond & Reggie J idea is a (perhaps far fetched) suggestion of how there could be a rebuild while retaining Griffin. So I agree that a rebuild with Griffin's possible. Again it's a matter of probabilities for me. Even if that trade could be pulled off, the rebuild would face real difficulties with Gortat leaving a year later. I've become convinced that there are 2nd tier centers, like Baynes for Boston, available at reasonable cost, so I'd envision taking that direction, with an elite PG in place, rather than an All Star Center.

My earlier assertion was that a radical rebuild would be very difficult to pull off now. I'm sticking with that assessment of probabilities. Philly, your example, didn't have some injury prone dude earning 30 mil while they were tanking. I'm having trouble seeing the compatibility of keeping Griffin while radically rebuilding, certainly a la Philly.

BallinD: I agree with Don that you posted an excellent distillation (from DBB) of key SVG deficiencies. The lack of the impact of analytics has really surprised me; as I remember, one of the things that excited me about the SVG hire was that he seemed to have a major personal investment in analytics, eg, having spoken at an analytics conference. I also didn't see it coming that he would be so unimaginative, and stuck in his (non-productive) ways.

I keep hearing the word "Stuck"  and just want to remind everyone that anything is possible when it comes to moving BG or AD contracts. IMO those seem more possible to do than getting rid of RJ.   I think once we remove SVG from all equations/processes/etc.  It changes  things and the direction of the team because no new coach or GM will come in and follow the same dumb ass pattern of SVG.   

I still think we'll get lucky and get to keep or pick,  I think we'll have a new coach,  and I think we can move either BG or AD if need be...

[WTF]

I keep hearing the word "Stuck"  and just want to remind everyone that anything is possible when it comes to moving BG or AD contracts. IMO those seem more possible to do than getting rid of RJ.   I think once we remove SVG from all equations/processes/etc.  It changes  things and the direction of the team because no new coach or GM will come in and follow the same dumb ass pattern of SVG.   

I still think we'll get lucky and get to keep or pick,  I think we'll have a new coach,  and I think we can move either BG or AD if need be...

[WTF]

Many have been trying to turn AD into an Elite for some time now.  You all now where I stand on AD he's decent but not Elite and I doubt if he'll ever be other than by default or a process of elimination due to aging players and injured ones.   AD is a stat stuffer which most make for great role players but not Elite.

I remember some making a similar case about Moose who would put up great numbers 1or 2 games and quickly fall into a 5 game funk.  AD is just like that but not as bad.  AD needs to be dominate and effective IMO 90% of the games he play that he's impacting those games outcomes W/L  but mainly W.  He don't do that now and I doubt if he ever will.  

Right now AD stats are meaningless for the most part just like Moose stats were.  A lot of today players are okay with losing and AD, RJ, and to some degree Blake are among those collecting big paychecks.  We paid a ton of money not go to the playoffs this season 

[cool breeze]

I'd vote for Embiid (health permitting) and A. Davis as the heir apparents.

Murph writes: "Unless and until they move Griffin, it doesn't make any sense to trade the much younger and more valuable Drummond."

I essentially agree.  Griffin very likely would need to be traded first.  A radical rebuild (which I've consistently favored) would be very difficult to pull off now.

With Reggie, I think you'd need to expect a negative return (still can't believe they passed on Rubio); with Griffin you'd hope not to have to take a crippling contract (and a less productive player) back.  Andre's the one of the three for whom you could expect a really good return, maybe a high pick, a strong young player, along with one big vet contract.

All that said, I'm afraid the following would be a dream, but it suggests a path to trading Dre first, if Washington's contemplating moving Wall, as has been suggested: Drummond and Reggie for Gortat (34, entering last year of contract) and Wall.  

That would instantly give the team a very different look.  Maybe, maybe.

In all likelihood, we're stuck with our "big 3" for the duration, with significant injury worries with Reggie and Griffin.  Maybe that Big 3 could get up towards 50 wins for a season or two, if all went well.  

My money is on Steph Curry and James Harden as being the heirs apparent to Lebron.  After that, who knows?

With that in mind, whichever team comes out of the West, Golden State or Houston will most likely win the NBA Championship.  The real championship will be the Western Conference Finals this year, IMO.


All the rest of your post was not even worth reading, let along replying to.

Sparma i am not a believer in Murph's argument that to start a rebuild the Pistons would have to rid themselves of Griffin's contract. I do agree that no GM in their right mind would take that contract on with the exception of Tom Gores who as reported was the instigator of the bogus trade not SVG who advised against it. We can all Agree that we are stuck with Blake Griffin and his health issues for the remainder of his contract. Hey if Mr. Gores young son wants to watch Griffin play for the Pistons then who knows what is going to happen next? However, there is nobody who actually watches this team that would believe that they have a chance in hell of ever becoming a top tier team with the current highest paid athletes who dominate the payroll. Griffin's contract hurts the Pistons big time if they would consider a rebuilt. But it wouldn't stop a wholesale rebuild project where the owner could go on the Philly plan and be patient if it takes 6 years. Piston fans would approve of a rebuild and would support the team more than they do now. All this team needs is a top 3 pick to get things started at least. AD could help make that happen. Then with one potential winning type All Star player developing and leading like Zeke did as a rookie, the Pistons would again be on the right path. Also, Detroit removes a huge contract relating to AD. But I think it would take more than AD to get any GM excited. I think it would be necessary to include Stanley Johnson.

As Ballin stated in his excellent post where he broke down SVG's offensive game strategy, most of us are very surprised that this repeated coach banked on such a stupid system. But perhaps this coach realized who he was dealing with relating to AD and the owner who has been insistent that AD would be the focus of the future. SVG tried to make things happen in a way to fit Tom Gore's vision where AD is an All Star who becomes a big time scorer. To do that the coach had to run a simple offensive system. AD has difficulty functioning in a more complex system and for sure would not touch the ball as much he has experienced with the point guard and center dominance. What is funny about all of this is the fact that both Reggie and Andre are below average defenders. Use an offense to help AD continue to get awards or get fired. What would you choose? SVG has made things more difficult because he stands for nothing now although he did try to change the offense at the start of the season and run the motion offense. But now with Blake we are back to simple AAU style offense. If the owner would part with his adopted son AD then whoever the new coach might be, it would put an end to the dysfunction we see with the Pistons on offense. Maybe we get two centers who score very little but are rim protectors and great screeners. How refreshing would that be?

I agree that nothing is going to happen this summer relating to moving AD. AD will run the team again and get all of his wishes met. He will get his buddy who looks for him first in the ball dominate point guard format featuring Reggie Jackson and AD. Griffin will change things some and could become a real leader who could force some change in the way both Drummond and Jackson play defense. But after this coming season is over and the current playoff teams keep on improving, then all fingers will be pointing to the owner and he will have to break up the AD-RJ dance that leads the Piston.

Has anyone been watching Mitchell play for Utah in the playoffs. It won't matter who the coach is next year, Mitchell will not be playing for the Pistons. Selecting him should have been a no brainer. So who made the call? Was it SVG? Was it AD? or did Mr. Gores himself decide not to create any competition for Reggie Jackson and ish Smith in training camp last fall? Most of us were screaming for a new point guard before the draft. Many of us saw something in Mitchell. He was the logical pick for Detroit being that Jackson was a bust when he returned from his injury before Morris called for a players only meeting. Knowing that the final decision was not based on picking the best possible player available even forgetting about our need for a real point guard, makes me lose any faith that I have ever had for the owner and his executive staff. Now I believe that SVG would have selected Mitchell because he is a coach and knows that his chances were slim in making the playoffs even if Reggie Jackson returned to his form three seasons ago. Reggie's style causes dysfunction. But AD loves Reggie Jackson. They are always arm in arm looking like it is them against the entire world. If AD tells his step father Tom that he doesn't want SVG to draft a point guard, then I believe that there was a 99% chance that Mr. Gores contacted SVG to give him his matching orders. Maybe I am wrong and no politics were involved but a lot of experts were surprised to see that Mitchell was still on the board when The Pistons had their selection. Nothing against Kennard, but Mitchell was for sure a rotation player in his rookie season if not a starter from the get go unlike Kennard who had a lower upside because of lack of athleticism and worries about his ability to defend. Kennard has surprised all of us but the jury is still out on how good he will become as an NBA player. His basketball IQ is really high and his jump shot is beautiful too. But Mitchell looks like an old pro in a starting role playing in playoff situations not regular season situations. Knowing how impressive Mitchell is and how he could have transformed the Piston team with the players they had before the bogus Griffin trade, should be enough to make Piston fans not trust anyone connected with this management team. So while I keep pushing for the Pistons to trade AD this summer and eat Jackson's contract if necessary, who cares anymore. We have proof that the owner, SVG and Andre Drummond (who believe it or not has a lot of influence on what happens) conspired to eliminate competition at the point guard position before last summer's draft. The result of that nonsense was that we missed out as fans and do not get to see Mitchell play for Detroit. Don't forget the comments from Tom Gores relating to his big meeting with SVG. Tom told the press that he would consult with AD before he met with SVG. SVG better hope that he didn't offend our franchise team captain. God help the next coach. The Pistons have become simple and silly. They are not worth our time anymore. We all have visions of the glory days. There were some knucklehead decisions made by front office staff and head coaches but we loved the players who overcame barriers placed on them by management. But this time around things have gone in the extreme insanity range relating to management leadership.

[BallinD]

Detroit Bad Boys:
"Most disappointing for me, however, is that Van Gundy has been stunningly ... conventional. He spent two-plus years trying to turn Andre Drummond into a typical post-up big man with disastrous results. He’s run a predictable pick-and-roll attack that lives and dies by the strength of the point guard. Solve the point of attack and you’ve completely solved Detroit’s offense. No secondary ball handlers, little off ball action and a lot of isos at the end of shot clocks leading to long twos.

Van Gundy has loaded up his front office with more bodies than perhaps anybody in the league but don’t have much to show for it. They don’t mine the G League for hidden gems, haven’t developed young talent and I’ll be convinced that they embrace advanced analytics the moment they stop putting Ish Smith, Andre Drummond and Stanley Johnson the floor together."

Do you want Stan Van Gundy to remain a part of the Detroit Pistons organization next year?
Yes 33%
Yes, let him finish his contract as president and head coach and then decide
(179 votes)
Yes 21%
Yes, as head coach only — Detroit needs a new front office leader
(116 votes)

No. 46%
No, it’s time for Stan Van Gundy to go
(248 votes)
543 votes total

[Sparma]

I'd vote for Embiid (health permitting) and A. Davis as the heir apparents.

Murph writes: "Unless and until they move Griffin, it doesn't make any sense to trade the much younger and more valuable Drummond."

I essentially agree. Griffin very likely would need to be traded first. A radical rebuild (which I've consistently favored) would be very difficult to pull off now.

With Reggie, I think you'd need to expect a negative return (still can't believe they passed on Rubio); with Griffin you'd hope not to have to take a crippling contract (and a less productive player) back. Andre's the one of the three for whom you could expect a really good return, maybe a high pick, a strong young player, along with one big vet contract.

All that said, I'm afraid the following would be a dream, but it suggests a path to trading Dre first, if Washington's contemplating moving Wall, as has been suggested: Drummond and Reggie for Gortat (34, entering last year of contract) and Wall.

That would instantly give the team a very different look. Maybe, maybe.

In all likelihood, we're stuck with our "big 3" for the duration, with significant injury worries with Reggie and Griffin. Maybe that Big 3 could get up towards 50 wins for a season or two, if all went well.

My money is on Steph Curry and James Harden as being the heirs apparent to Lebron.  After that, who knows?

With that in mind, whichever team comes out of the West, Golden State or Houston will most likely win the NBA Championship.  The real championship will be the Western Conference Finals this year, IMO.


All the rest of your post was not even worth reading, let along replying to.

[Murph]

My money is on Steph Curry and James Harden as being the heirs apparent to Lebron. After that, who knows?

With that in mind, whichever team comes out of the West, Golden State or Houston will most likely win the NBA Championship. The real championship will be the Western Conference Finals this year, IMO.


All the rest of your post was not even worth reading, let along replying to.

[cool breeze]

Don, you wrote, "Oracle makes a plea that he hopes Andre Drummond can someday be in the league of some of the great young players who are now ready to take over from players like Labron."

Again, no one has ever said that Drummond will be in the league of Lebron.  There are maybe 4 players to ever play the game that are in Lebron's league...Jordan, Kareem, Magic and Wilt.



Then you wrote, "The Pistons only chance of retaining fans is to start over and secure some players like those who are now playing in the playoffs."

Earth to Don:  The Pistons CAN'T start over now, with Blake Griffin's $35 or $40 million a year contract hanging over their heads.  Unless and until they move Griffin, it doesn't make any sense to trade the much younger and more valuable Drummond.

We are in salary cap hell until Griffin's contract expires in 4 years.

Earth to Murph there are young players who show the ability to take over from Labron James but maybe not quite yet. What I intended and believe was clear in my post was that AD is not and never will be in that group who will become mega NBA star players on winning teams. AD will be a stat star who plays on losing teams. The Greek Freak, Embid, Simmons, and others might not look like a heavy weight boxer like Labron but those basketball players are becoming dominate and they are smart and fun to watch. Anthony Davis is in that group of unbelievable players who not only have exceptional athletic gifts but have an incredible work ethic and most important of all a high basketball IQ. I should also add one more important thing here. The young guys who are stars now or becoming star franchise winners also have always been coachable players. AD does not have a history of being a basketball player who has a strong work ethic, His entire history shows that he has been difficult to coach. I know everyone hates SVG but AD has had problems with all of his other head coaches too. SVG has been the political coach who tip toes when he is near AD so as not to piss him off which will offend the owner. AD is a slow learner relating to learning how to react in basketball situations. The NBA is fast so if you do not have quick recognition skills before you arrive in the NBA it is very difficult to ever play as smart as the other highest ranked players. Labron is exceptionally smart and always has been. Read his book where he reveals his childhood experiences playing basketball has a kid. Players like Labron or Zeke learned as kids that the mental side of the game makes the difference between winning and losing. Some players are content to just dunk the ball and fake the rest. Just look at Zeke's history as a player before he arrived at the Pistons. He was on winning teams and the winning was mostly due to his fantastic all around skill set, basketball IQ and leadership skills. Same with Labron and others who have been on successful teams. The check out AD and his one year in college and ask his coaches what they think. He could have learned a lot but didn't. He was a very difficult player to coach. And that has been true since he arrived in Detroit. You have to be able to think quickly and react. AD still hasn't decided he will make the effort to box out on the defensive boards and that has nothing to do with quick recognition skills. That is about effort.

When I made the comment relating to Oracle's wishes about the development of Drummond, I was not trying to criticize our wise Oracle. We have all wanted to see AD become a basketball monster not on offense but defense. AD hates to play defense. But somehow this owner wants to believe that AD is in the league of Labron James or Anthony Davis who always befuddles AD completely in their matchups.Every matchup is the same. AD gets his ass kicked by Anthony Davis. In each game Anthony kicks it in a different way. He has many options of course being that AD cannot recognize situations on defense.

Being that the Pistons are not even a playoff team with their current payroll, have no real star players unless you believe that Blake Griffin is in the category of the Greek, Davis, Embid, Simmons, Labron etc, then it should be time for the owner to come to his senses and start over. After all the starting point guard is Reggie Jackson who is the worst defensive starting point guard in the league. The starting lineup contains two players, AD and RJ who are dumb as a box of rocks on defense. And then add their belief that effort on defense is optional and you have disaster and empty seats to worry about if you are the head coach. It seems the players are immune to criticism because they have guaranteed contracts with no provision about giving an honest effort on defense. You are right the bogus Griffin contract hurts the Pistons. Griffin most likely will be wearing street clothes during the last two years of his contract due to a failing body. So Murph what would you do? You criticise my thought process a lot but the way I see it is the only way to bring down the payroll and also secure hope for the future by landing some top draft picks is to trade Andre Drummond. He might be the best player on this Piston team but so what? This team is going nowhere. Others believe the same way I do and the proof is in the low attendance figures at the new arena and the last season at the Palace was even more pitiful. When Isiah Thomas arrived in his rookie year, Michigan basketball fans got really excited. The team was fun to watch and there was at least one player who was really smart and fans love to watch smart players. When I talk to my friends about AD they all say who would spend money or even use their free time to watch AD play basketball? I actually prefer to watch Eric Moreland to see if he can improve and get another NBA contract. I hate watching AD most of the time. More power to you if you enjoy his game. Bu if one is working in a position where decisions will be made relating to the future of the Pistons, it is clear that the only way to get a potential first tier type NBA player will be through the draft and the only player that a team with a high draft pick might want is AD who for sure is a better player than he was in previous years. Perhaps he will become much better but if he stays and no trade is made then the Pistons will be in the dead zone again for a long time. I say start now to secure more talented young players and rebuild a flawed poorly performing team. I do not think AD's value is high enough to land more than one pick or even a top 3 pick so it might be necessary to include Stanley Johnson who most likely will want out of Detroit after next season anyway.If only the Suns would take AD and RJ and we get their number one pick and one of the top rookie point guards from this season in a 3 or 4 way trade. Yet I know this is a silly thought. AD is not that popular among the GMs around the league. Tom Gores needs to find a dumb GM who just looks at AD's stats.

Somehow you believe it is very important to retain the services of AD. That was your point of your critical remarks wasn't it Murph? Oracle has his doubts about AD as most of us have but of course we hope he can get better if he is not traded. But why not trade him? The only reason why SVG or Tom Gores won't do it is because they cannot move Reggie Jackson not to mention Blake Griffin. So the Reggie Jackson - Andre Drummond pick and roll offense will come back for one more go around and the opportunity to make a trade to make the Pistons better will disappear. The Pistons are a dumb team now. The coaching staff appears dumb. Nobody can really tell who is the dumbest. But for sure the fans are smart enough to not buy many tickets.

[Murph]

Don, you wrote, "Oracle makes a plea that he hopes Andre Drummond can someday be in the league of some of the great young players who are now ready to take over from players like Labron."

Again, no one has ever said that Drummond will be in the league of Lebron.  There are maybe 4 players to ever play the game that are in Lebron's league...Jordan, Kareem, Magic and Wilt.



Then you wrote, "The Pistons only chance of retaining fans is to start over and secure some players like those who are now playing in the playoffs."

Earth to Don:  The Pistons CAN'T start over now, with Blake Griffin's $35 or $40 million a year contract hanging over their heads.  Unless and until they move Griffin, it doesn't make any sense to trade the much younger and more valuable Drummond.

We are in salary cap hell until Griffin's contract expires in 4 years.

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