At this point in time this Piston team has exceeded my expectations relating to how they play as a team

[cool breeze]

The addition of Bradley, Galloway, Kennard and Moreland has been great in my opinion. I realize that my opinion is not popular most of the time but it is what it is just an opinion. Also, I believe the coaching staff and the head coach, SVG, has done a far better job this season and do not believe the extreme ridicule is justified. I have been the back seat driver a lot and wish I could take back some of the things that I have said about the head coach.

This team still is not going to scare many teams if they make the playoffs but anything can happen in basketball if the Pistons are playing their best in April. I do believe that if Detroit could make a trade involving Jackson before the trade deadline the team would be in a better position starting next season. I went on a rant about Reggie's performance in the 2nd half of the last game and still believe most of what I said. Reggie is not a good influence on younger players. He would do better with a more mature team where he would not be able to get away with some of the nonsense I see from him. If any of you still have the game film from the last game, I encourage you to watch Reggie again. He alone was the player who completely changed the way the Pistons performed. The Piston offense had been in sync with a lot of player and ball movement. The team had built op a big lead. Then Reggie started to show off. When the entry pass was there to initiate the offense Reggie decided to show the coach who was boss. Many of you have criticized SVG for his comments after the game. But I saw Arron Gordon and two other Magic starters who could not play sit there and get this gleam in their eyes which said to me, look at the punk, we sure are glad that we don't have to play with Reggie. And of course those players will be extremely excited to play the Pistons the next time around now because of Reggie. It is no secret in the NBA that when a coach blows up to the press about their team that folded in the last 5 minutes of a game while the opponent's subs were destroying the Piston starters, that all he can do is just that. Taking a guy like Reggie aside and pleading for him to listen to reason does not work. Reggie is one of those players who thinks he knows it all. He plays with great emotion at the end of games. But Isiah Thomas also played with great emotion. But Zeke's emotion was all about winning and he was able to channel that emotion into something beautiful where all Zeke was thinking about was doing whatever was necessary to make his teammates better. This is not even a consideration in Reggie's case. Reggie thought the game was already won so he deviated from the offensive game plan. None of Reggie's teammates liked what he was doing. It was not just the members of the coaching staff who were pissed off. The coaches and the players wanted to end the game on a strong note not look like weaklings at the end. Reggie did not run the offense. Reggie did not play defense. Reggie did not pass the ball unless it was absolutely necessary. Reggie wanted to build up his scoring average. Reggie Reggie Reggie Reggie. It was all about Reggie. And the most pitiful thing that I saw at the end was when Reggie saw the television camera man show him sitting on the bench. Reggie decided that he would have a bonding moment and forced Moreland to lock arms and get his bench teammates to all lock arms while Reggie put on a show with that worried look on his face. It looked to me that he was faking it and mocking the coach who had bitched him out to no effect. Reggie Jackson is proving to me what others have been saying about him for a long time. Reggie Jackson has a reputation as a chemistry killer. I am worried about that he has or will infect the younger players. That players only meeting last season was all about one player who was destroying the team chemistry then. Who do you think that guy was?

One final comment on all this silly talk about how SVG turns off players because he is blunt with them. I wonder how some of you handled playing for a coach who jerked you around and yelled in your ears swearing and spiting at times. My basketball coach in high school was also our head football coach. He was feared by all. It seemed every year some small group of parents would call for a meeting with the superintendent while trying to get that coach fired. Every year my Dad would go to the meeting and defend the coach who yelled at me a lot and once at half time of an away football game told all the players to get on one side of the bus and for me to sit in the front seat on the opposite side. Then he proceeded to grab me by the shoulder pads and slam me against the window of every seat on the bus on that one side. Lucky that I had my football helmet latched at the chin. I had called a play as time was running out in the first half on a quick count and the fullback fumbled the ball on the one yard line and we failed to score an easy touchdown. When he did that there was a lot of noise but I was never feeling any pain and he knew he wasn't hurting me. Did I hate him for doing it? No I was just embarrassed as hell and agreed with him that I made a huge mistake. What others might feel outraged over made be feel that this coach is special. I would much prefer a coach with great emotion who will get in your face than a numbers type coach which I encountered in college. When you get a coach with a calm demeanor who seldom raises his voice or stops play in practice and demonstrates how pathetic we sometimes get as players you start to wonder if they really give a crap especially when players keep making the same mistakes and the coach fails to call that player out. Anyway, I loved my football and basketball coach in high school and believe he really helped me form the character that i developed before leaving high school. What I don't like about SVG is when he yells at the guys who are sitting on the bench instead of the player he really wants to ream out for something that had happened on the hardwood. It is clear to me that SVG or perhaps no coach in basketball can motivate Reggie Jackson or change the way he plays the game. The way Reggie plays is just not good enough. He cannot lead a team because of the way he plays the game. There is a lot that goes on in an NBA game from beginning to end. If only Reggie could have taken back those moments in the 4th quarter when he reverted back to his dark times in the past. But to me his teammates will remember what he did and wonder why he did it for a long time to come. The coaches will forget long before Reggie's teammates will forget.

I think that if there are a few NBA teams that need a point guard and have called SVG about Reggie, some type of deal should be worked out if the Pistons can benefit in the long run which means next season and the season after next season. I can't imagine that Reggie Jackson will be the Pistons point guard in two years. Why not do it now? With Reggie gone, I believe that the team chemistry will sore to new heights. Either get a sold vet player or a number one draft pick. I would love to see the Pistons have two first round picks going into next year's draft. Management could either snag a real top tier PG or use one of the picks to get a high basketball IQ vet point guard who is more team orientated than Reggie.

[Murph]

I see one mock draft has the Pistons taking PF Moritz Wagner from Michigan with their 1st round pick.

Do any of you Michigan fans have an opinion on this kid? I haven't seen him play, but it looks as if he's big and can shoot.

[Sparma]

Thanks for posting that, Oracle. It's not that what SVG said is off, but more that the how and when are pretty tone deaf, especially for a guy who's struggled with alienating players. I suppose back in the 60's this stuff wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but that old school focus on the negative doesn't go down so well today. It would have been so easy to praise the guys for tying the 3 point record, then adding a caveat about effort. The part that bugs me most is him leading off by saying he's not happy. Why not: great stuff, and yet....

I do think Don's got a point about Reggie's statement coming off as an excuse. Still, I think he right factually: this side of a handful of guys like Rodman and Ben Wallace, everyone who plays long minutes and many games is looking for a breather now and again. That certainly includes the best of the best, LeBron who would like a shorter schedule. Maybe subs like Tolliver and Moreland can go all out game after game. And teams have up and downs throughout a game. That's just being realistic.

I'm not a Reggie J fan, but I do see him as someone who's expending enormous energy from game to game. That said, Reggie's manner of taking a breather has hurt us, specifically when he saunters up the court (preceding a burst when approaching the basket and when resting up on D (which he does less of this year).

For those reasons, it's my sense (again) that it would have been much better if SVG'd said the gentle, realistic, perspective taking stuff Reggie said, and if Reggie had said no excuses/ feet to the fire stuff that SVG said. They're both right, but Reggie's got a perception issue to face, and SVG may be digging himself back into a familiar hole.

3 things I hate
Nagging SVG

As a young newspaper manager in Asheville, N.C., a senior editor relayed the adage to me that you should praise employees publicly, criticize privately
.
With that memory in mind, my eyebrows were raised when I saw Van Gundy’s comments after the 114-110 victory over the Orlando Magic on Sunday – a game where the Pistons nearly squandered a 24-point lead.

“I’m not happy,” he said. “I understand the sentiment that it’s all about winning and you got the win — that’s not what it’s all about. It’s about what you bring to the game. How you play, the effort you bring, the unselfishness you bring, and then the results take care of themselves.”

Reporters want the candor, but is it good for the team?

An early-season schedule has more than likely fatigued the team to the point where a 48-minute effort is likely tough.

No one is trying to sugarcoat nearly blowing a 24-point lead, but a big lead against an inferior, undermanned opponent is the exact time a team lets up – something that happens to great teams so you can definitely expect it to happen to the Pistons.

With the next two games spread over eight days, the opportunity is there for the batteries to get recharged.

The standard may change at that point.

But Van Gundy is asking for eyerolls when he goes to the public criticism whip too much.

[Oracle]

3 things I hate
Nagging SVG

As a young newspaper manager in Asheville, N.C., a senior editor relayed the adage to me that you should praise employees publicly, criticize privately
.
With that memory in mind, my eyebrows were raised when I saw Van Gundy’s comments after the 114-110 victory over the Orlando Magic on Sunday – a game where the Pistons nearly squandered a 24-point lead.

“I’m not happy,” he said. “I understand the sentiment that it’s all about winning and you got the win — that’s not what it’s all about. It’s about what you bring to the game. How you play, the effort you bring, the unselfishness you bring, and then the results take care of themselves.”

Reporters want the candor, but is it good for the team?

An early-season schedule has more than likely fatigued the team to the point where a 48-minute effort is likely tough.

No one is trying to sugarcoat nearly blowing a 24-point lead, but a big lead against an inferior, undermanned opponent is the exact time a team lets up – something that happens to great teams so you can definitely expect it to happen to the Pistons.

With the next two games spread over eight days, the opportunity is there for the batteries to get recharged.

The standard may change at that point.

But Van Gundy is asking for eyerolls when he goes to the public criticism whip too much.

[Murph]

"Don't forget that Johnson was 4 for 4 in the first half (of the Pacers game). Hitting on all cylinders with his foul shooting as well. I don't like his release but the shot looked pretty fluid for half of the game and then he missed a few. I think that there as been way too much focus on Johnson's scoring and too little appreciation for his floor game and the defense he provides for the team."

Don, Stanley Johnson is shooting 35% this year. You can spin it any way you want, but 35% is unacceptable. If he wants to stay in the NBA, he should spend the summer re-tooling his shot...not scoring 86 ppg in some stupid summer tournament.

[Murph]

The only sucker, I mean team that Boston could find to take Bradley was the Pistons. They were trying to move him but no takers until the Pistons showed up.

I talked a lot about how he was always injured, well, it's early in the season and the injuries have already started, expect more!

Oracle, would the Celtics take Bradley back?  Unlike the Pistons, the Celtics are a legitimate contender this season, and unlike The Turd, Brad Stevens is able to maximize Bradley's production.  Bradley already knows the Celtics system and fits in well there.  He could come off the bench for them and provide a spark in limited minutes.   Also, Bradley has an expiring contract, so the risk would be low for the Celtics.  

I'd take the Celtics #1 pick (somewhere between the 25th and 30th pick in the draft) in return for Bradley.  And then that would clear the deck for Kennard, assuming The Turd doesn't bench Kennard for the remainder of the season, like he has Ellenson.


Ugly win last night.  I can't believe the Magic were able to reel off 19 straight points in the 4th quarter.    The Turd was a deer in the headlights.

[Phil-Good]

" “(Kennard) screwed up twice in the first two plays of the game,” Van Gundy said. “Mental mistakes. I wasn’t just going to let it go. (He) screwed up a defensive assignment and screwed up the play at the other end. It was enough.”


Pulling Luke K that F.U.C.K.I.N.G fast was A bad.. bad.. bad.. look by Stan Van Gundy.

He embarrassed the kid and made him look bad. That's unnecessary and Stan really showed the kid up big time. That's the kind of s.h.i.t that make guys not want to play for you Stan. You not Pop, Larry Brown or Pat Riley, Rick Carlisle so get back to reality GUY!!

Van Gundy is doing very poor in the development of his draft picks. Stanley Is TRASH! Hilliard is out of the league, Ellinson don't play at all. The big PG over in Brooklyn developing fine but Stan ran out of patience with him. (Dinwiddie)

Detroit is not NY, Miami, Orlando, LA, Texas or any destination Organization or warm Weather city. You have to draft well for this organization to have long term success.

[Oracle]

At detnews: 

“I’m not happy,” Van Gundy said after the game. “We didn’t try in the second half. They had 67 points. I didn’t think we gave any effort in the second half.”

Sparma, it's becoming abundantly clear how SSVG loses his team, he's hyper critical for no good reason.

I agree with Don that he was spot on with his criticism, that's not the issue. The issue is that he's airing this stuff out in the press, and not in the locker room or during workouts and practice. 

Where's the value of berating his players in the press? There's a time to do that, but to a rookie???

Ballin nailed it, SSVG is uneven and inconsistent in damn near everything he does! Players don't know if they going to get Jekyll Van Gundy or Hyde Van Gundy.

[Oracle]

The only sucker, I mean team that Boston could find to take Bradley was the Pistons. They were trying to move him but no takers until the Pistons showed up.

I talked a lot about how he was always injured, well, it's early in the season and the injuries have already started, expect more!

[cool breeze]

At detnews:

“I’m not happy,” Van Gundy said after the game. “We didn’t try in the second half. They had 67 points. I didn’t think we gave any effort in the second half.”

“I understand the sentiment that it’s all about the win and you got the win, but that’s not what it’s all about. It’s about what you bring to the game, how you play, the effort you bring, the unselfishness you bring and then the results take care of themselves.”

Reggie Jackson wasn’t quite as animated about the performance as Van Gundy.

“You always wish you could play all 48 minutes,” Jackson said. “I don’t think anybody plays all 48. It’s tough, but that’s the NBA. They made a run. We’re just fortunate enough to get a win and we’re happy to get another one.”

There's insight to what Stan says, no doubt, but I think his words after a win provide a clue into how he loses teams.  Now if Reggie had said what Stan said, and Stan what Reggie said, maybe it'd be all good.  A coach shouldn't always coddle a team, but after, what, tying an all-time record for 3s there's indeed cause for happiness for the coach.  His twitchiness, exaggerated sour expressions, animated whining, and general lack of joy (excepting after the Boston game, which then promptly led into a 7 game losing streak!) irks me, so I can only imagine how it gets under the skin of players.  His air of all knowingness combined with the appearance of someone who'd struggle to beat a 5th grade one on one doesn't sit well with me either.  And I say all that as someone who seems to like Stan more than most around here.

I think SVG was spot on with his criticism of the highest paid players in the 2nd half of this game. First off no good team fails to take advantage of a lucky night shooting the long ball. They drive it more in the 4th quarter because the defense is worried about what has happened up to that point in the game. The leader of idiots was none other than Reggie Jackson who in the 4th quarter could not resist the temptation to go off on his own and play The Reggie offense not the Motion offense this team practices. Do the Piston players ever practice the Reggie Offense? How in hell can they stand playing with Reggie Jackson at times? That is my question. Remember that team meeting last season when the players got fed up with Reggie? I have a very difficult time watching his silly lazy half assed effort on both ends of the floor at times. In the first half it was Reggie screwing up the defense in one 5 minute segment allowing the under maned Magic a chance to stay within reach. But in the 4th quarter with the Pistons having close to a 20 point lead Reggie started to slack off and walked the ball up the court refusing to give up the ball. Dribble dribble dribble and then when he gets to the most difficult places on the court well beyond the 3 point line, Reggie shoots the ball with no chance of making it. He did that 3 times in a short period of time. The offense had been looking better with players moving and passing and screening. Then Reggie decided to switch things up to the Reggie special offense that only a retarded person or ego centric person might attempt. SVG's only mistake is that he allowed Reggie to stay in the game. If you really care about improving as a team and you are the starting point guard, your goal when you have a big lead is to finish on a good note not let a weak opponent get the score back to 105 to 92 wit 4:16 to play. After all Reggie must know the Piston's next 3 opponents most likely will beat them. Stanley Johnson made a fantastic bounce pass to Reggie who scored with a layup and then Reggie tuned everyone out and played like a hot shot Jr High player. Look what I did Piston fans. I am the leader. Reggie needed a spanking in front of the Piston fans who stayed around to the end. Next time I want SVG to call a time out and spank Reggie Jackson. I think the team would approve.

Oracle suggested that the Pistons should try to move Avery Bradley now because it is doubtful that they will get anything for him after this season. I agree because who in hell wants to play with Reggie Jackson for another 3 or 4 years? There is no way Bradley will sign if Reggie comes back for another go around. If SVG has an indication that Bradley wants no part of being a Piston after this season then I am on board for a trade involving Avery Bradley. If Reggie is gone I suspect Bradley might want to stay.

Do any of you see what Reggie is doing at times to screw up the works with the Piston offense. He was playing his personal game where everyone is supposed to watch the selfish little kid. The game was won so why not show off. He reminded me of a player I had to play for one year when I was a freshman in high school and that guy was a senior. It is not fun. If there is any chance of making a good trade for Reggie Jackson, then I am all in after that demonstration he provided in this game. You can never win with a player like that. No way. Reggie Jackson is not a coachable player. He has some talent scoring the ball but that is not enough to overcome the liability he presents. The players have no idea what he is going to do at any given time. They suspect he might go off on his own but never really know from night to night. I don't care if he was perfect from the field shooting the ball. He is a disruption to the improvement of this young team. He defies the coach. SVG should have had enough by now and was justified for his antics on the sidelines this time. There is no reason why the coach should tolerate Reggie when he plays that way. That is my criticism of SVG tonight. He has Galloway who runs the offense better than either Jackson or Smith. And the players really like the way Galloway defends. When Bradley returns he can play point guard as well. Reggie Jackson is still a nightmare waiting to happen just like he was last season.

Now I am begging for SVG to make a deal if there are any takers which is doubtful. Screw RJ and his viewpoint that nobody plays hard for an entire game. Of course that is Reggie's style. Play hard for a few minutes and slack off. But isn't the point guard who makes over $16 mil supposed to be a leader or someone the younger players look up to? Instead Reggie Jackson is a chemistry killer. Will the young guys who do bust their butts listen to what Reggie says? Don't worry you can coast now and then. Nobody will notice. If the coach bitches who gives a crap. All we care about is getting paid. Reggie said it all with that comment. Now I want to see if SVG has the guts to trade Reggie Jackson moving that salary off the Piston payroll.

[BallinD]

At detnews:

“I’m not happy,” Van Gundy said after the game. “We didn’t try in the second half. They had 67 points. I didn’t think we gave any effort in the second half.”

Sourpuss maybe, but it's also called being a hypocrite, talking out of both sides of your damn mouth. So they scored 67 points against us in the second half, but neither Kennard nor Ellensen played, presumably because of rookie mistakes and defense. (LOL).  How do you draft offensively gifted players, then refuse to play them, even though the team needs offense.  Then you bench them for making mistakes on defense, while apparently, the whole team is making mistakes on defense, including Drummond who makes them on the regular, and Weggie makes a living on everyone ignoring his defensive mistakes, but you do not pull them, so how do you explain it SVG?

You trot out Moreland and SJ for 18 and 31 minutes, your defensive stalwarts, but did you pull them during that 67point second half when "nobody on the floor tried?"

DET NEWS: “(Kennard) screwed up twice in the first two plays of the game,” Van Gundy said. “Mental mistakes. I wasn’t just going to let it go. (He) screwed up a defensive assignment and screwed up the play at the other end. It was enough.”

After a solid outing in his first start on Friday at Indiana, Kennard finished with just three points, two assists and a single rebound while accruing nearly 15 minutes of playing time." How do you expect him to learn StupidVG??

How can a team maintain chemistry with such uneven punishment/lack of judgement??!!?  How do we wonder why we can't score when he pulls these stunts Stupid Van Gundy.

[Sparma]

At detnews:

“I’m not happy,” Van Gundy said after the game. “We didn’t try in the second half. They had 67 points. I didn’t think we gave any effort in the second half.”

“I understand the sentiment that it’s all about the win and you got the win, but that’s not what it’s all about. It’s about what you bring to the game, how you play, the effort you bring, the unselfishness you bring and then the results take care of themselves.”

Reggie Jackson wasn’t quite as animated about the performance as Van Gundy.

“You always wish you could play all 48 minutes,” Jackson said. “I don’t think anybody plays all 48. It’s tough, but that’s the NBA. They made a run. We’re just fortunate enough to get a win and we’re happy to get another one.”

There's insight to what Stan says, no doubt, but I think his words after a win provide a clue into how he loses teams. Now if Reggie had said what Stan said, and Stan what Reggie said, maybe it'd be all good. A coach shouldn't always coddle a team, but after, what, tying an all-time record for 3s there's indeed cause for happiness for the coach. His twitchiness, exaggerated sour expressions, animated whining, and general lack of joy (excepting after the Boston game, which then promptly led into a 7 game losing streak!) irks me, so I can only imagine how it gets under the skin of players. His air of all knowingness combined with the appearance of someone who'd struggle to beat a 5th grade one on one doesn't sit well with me either. And I say all that as someone who seems to like Stan more than most around here.

[Sparma]

1) Boban. Don after waxing poetic on Moreland over Boban: "Why is it that all fans can think about is how many points players score?" Let's not reach to the straw man argument, Don. I may be Boban's biggest fan here, but I've praised Moreland for his D, and more specifically for his contribution in taking charges (think I passed along he was 2nd in the league per 36 minutes).

It's about scoring points and preventing points. Everyone (here) knows that.

That's why there's room for both Boban and Moreland.

But then things become more complicated and controversial. I'm inclined to think there are fewer guys who make a difference playing O at an NBA level then guys who can make a difference playing D at an NBA level. Put slightly differently, I think there are fewer guys beyond the replacement level (readily available) on O than on D. If so, there is indeed more of a premium on guys who can make a different on O than D. Boban's one of those guys; Moreland may be a difference maker on D, but less so. Moreland's really marginal on O; I happen to think Boban isn't altogether a negative on D, given his size and strength, in fact that he makes a contribution. I need to compare their +/- which provides some evidence, however fallible.

2) SJ. This time by way of his substitute as starter, Reggie Bullock. Great game by Reggie B. I was struck by a comment by Kelser: Reggie B. knows when to stay outside, and when to cut to the basket. That's a mark of basketball IQ. I don't see that kind of discernment in SJ, who often seems lost as to where to go. Some want to blame the positioning problem on the coach, and on Reggie J. I've got a lot of sympathy with the second reason, at least. But if Reggie B. manages to succeed playing with Reggie J. and SJ doesn't, that suggests he's doing something different. We know that Reggie B.'s the better shooter. Beyond that, I think he's doing a much better job of figuring out proper positioning, playing with the 1st string guys. I do think SJ's significantly better than Reggie B. on D, and maybe that will be a big deal moving forward. For right now, kudos to SVG for the line up change.

[cool breeze]

I have to say, in spite of all SJ's limitations on the court, I really like the kid and the way he competes.  He wasn't going to let the bigger, stronger, meaner Lance Stevenson intimidate him and take over the game, the way Stevenson did the last time we played the Pacers.  SJ stood up to Stevenson, and neutralized him with defense.

But until Stanley can fix his shot, he needs to come off the bench.


Kennard played very well as a starter.  Maybe Kennard is the spark this team needs moving forward.  SVG should keep Kennard in the starting line-up, even when Bradley returns.

Don't forget that Johnson was 4 for 4 in the first half. Hitting on all cylinders with his foul shooting as well. I don't like his release but the shot looked pretty fluid for half of the game and then he missed a few. I think that there as been way too much focus on Johnson's scoring and too little appreciation for his floor game and the defense he provides for the team. And you will not get Johnson pissed off suggesting that he come off the bench. Johnson suggested to coach SVG that he wanted to come off the bench. It looks like Johnson loves playing with Smith, Kennard, Moreland, Tolliver, Bullock and of course Bradley. It appears that he does not do well playing with one player - Reggie Jackson. That is the one players other do not play with too. But this is especially true regarding Johnson. Could it be that Jackson does not run the motion offense and likes running Reggie's own offense that nobody can figure out yet? And Jackson is not a guy too many players trust on defense either.

A week ago there were a lot of fans excited about Boban taking Moreland's place in the rotation. In the last game, Greg Kelser tried to set some of the fans straight who know very little about what really goes on. Moreland is 2nd in the league in taking charges. I think that Kelser has been very vocal all season long as to how his appreciation for what Moreland has brought to this Piston team. I give big credit to SVG on his decision to sign Moreland. If there is one player that I pull for the most to be successful that guy would be Eric Moreland if nothing other than to prove some of the fans wrong. Why is it that all fans can think about is how many points players score? I really think that when AD comes out for his first rest, he sits there and watches how hard Moreland is competing in the paint for those defensive boards and how fast he runs from baseline to baseline. Moreland has to play against bigger players than he is most of the time. But I hope he has a big stack of game film featuring Ben Wallace in his prime and mimics the way Ben developed himself into one of the best defensive centers of all time.

One final observation from the last game that I liked was how well Bullock is playing especially on the defensive end. We now have more roster players who really compete hard. Who is behind it? I would say it might be the guy Oracle has already packaged in a trade - Avery Bradley. I love history. And looking back at Bradley's career there is no doubt that this guy is always 100% guts. He is serious about playing the right way which means all out. There is no doubt in my mind that Bradley has had a huge impact on how quickly Kennard has improved on defense and how he approaches the mental part of the game. If I could think of one players I would love to play with, it would be Avery Bradley. He is worth his weight in gold regardless of if his shot is falling. It is very difficult playing 2 guard or small forward when Reggie Jackson occupying the point guard position. That doesn't mean that I hate Reggie Jackson. Jackson has special gifts but I would not be interested in playing with him if I were in my prime and good enough to play at the NBA level. Sometimes Jackson is just not content to do what a point guard should do to help his teammates get better. Younger players need more consistency and need to count on a point guard running the offense in the same way that the team practices over and over. Why practice of the point guard is ignoring the keys that players look for to get the offense up and running. Jackson is a creator and maybe would do better with an older team.

The two keys of this season is not how well Johnson will shoot the ball but rather how consistent AD and RJ will be from game to game. So far both are playing much better than last season in that regard especially AD. Can they improve and both reach a new level? I have my doubts about Jackson. He seems like a loner and not a point guard who is worried about giving his teammates their greatest chance of being successful on offense. If he could draw less attention on himself meaning being less ball dominate maybe RJ could actually score more and shoot with a higher shooting percentage. Hopefully everything will be worked out by the roster players and at the end of the season this team will be playing their best basketball. I want no roster changes and just hope all of the players can play just a little bit harder and smarter. And I should mention that everything would be a lot easier if the point guards could cut down on their turnovers.

[Oracle]

@Don - Zip up your pants, you aren't getting any tonight.

They won and we're all happy, but the underlying fundamentals of our future upside hasn't changed, all of the limitations remain firmly in place. You keep talking about how well they play together and for each other, and in this, you're 100% correct, it's showing and I love it!

@Murph - Yes, Stanley was really good coming off the bench and playing against 2nd team players, and IMO, that's important if he's to rebuild his confidence. SVG has made it clear that he won't be gifting any more minutes to Stanley, he's going to have to start earning what he gets.

Tonight was a good start, and I'm really happy for the kid. Now he needs to keep it up!

Bradley: We need to move him at the deadline for three reasons.

1. We're playing good enough defense without him, and
2. We'll lose him for nothing next season, so we need to get something for him now
3. Kennard is mature, basketball wise, beyond his years! Rookie's rarely play with such poise, his time is NOW!

Could we package Bradley with someone and get a 1st round pick or a very good player?

This could work out for all, getting Bradley to a finals contender would make him very happy.

[Murph]

I have to say, in spite of all SJ's limitations on the court, I really like the kid and the way he competes. He wasn't going to let the bigger, stronger, meaner Lance Stevenson intimidate him and take over the game, the way Stevenson did the last time we played the Pacers. SJ stood up to Stevenson, and neutralized him with defense.

But until Stanley can fix his shot, he needs to come off the bench.


Kennard played very well as a starter. Maybe Kennard is the spark this team needs moving forward. SVG should keep Kennard in the starting line-up, even when Bradley returns.

[cool breeze]

Just kidding Piston fans and that means all of you. This was a great team effort and the Pistons won the game with their defense and never give up attitude. This was a team win where the Pistons chemistry was shinning through for most of the game. The two Piston centers AD and EM must have had 8 blocks between them. But for me it was the defensive effort by Reggie Bullock and Stanley Johnson that caused the Pacers the most problems. At that moment in the first half when Stevenson started flexing his muscles and Johnson did not back down and went chest to chest looking at Lance directly in the eyes was fantastic. Somehow Lance Stevenson has found himself again after returning the team he had been so successful with. But Johnson really played him well. Bullock and Johnson got some deflections that don't show up in the record book. What a sweet looking shot Reggie has from distance. He was making sharp cuts and that back cut for the shot off the glass showed his speed. Out of nowhere Reggie Bullock is finding himself and just at the right time for the Pistons. WE have to give credit to SVG for giving Reggie another shot.

Luke Kennard did not disappoint in his first starting role. I was wishing SVG would have had him in for more minutes. He is going to be an outstanding Piston player if he can stay healthy. I was so upset with both of our point guards all night long especially the way Reggie Jackson slowed the tempo and destroyed all the rhythm this team had when they built up that sweet lead. But then at the end I had no doubt that Reggie would be clutch with those two free throws at the end. Johnson hit two free throws as well.

My only criticism of the coach is that he didn't go to Galloway at point guard being that both Jackson and Smith were failing to run the offense. Smith was the better of the two players but not good enough in my opinion. Galloway gets the first pass where he is supposed to be and at the right time. Neither Piston point guard even thinks of running the offense especially when they are having difficulty getting good shots with the run and gun approach. I noticed at one point that Johnson waved off Smith and dribble the ball up court and made sure he made the first pass into the center at the free throw line. How hard is that but it is difficult if you have no interest in running the offense that you practice. I just don't get it with Jackson especially. Jackson is playing his own game and as far away from the actual game plan as he can get. But Reggie Jackson always struggles playing against Collision. But I think Reggie for hitting those critical free throws.

As Bradley didn't play, it was important that both Reggie Jackson and Tobias Harris play at their best and that didn't happen. Others came up real big and the 2nd unit was fantastic in both halves. Harris had a real rough night where he took too many low percentage contested shots. But I was most upset with his lack of board work on the defensive end. The Pacers were screening out AD and the power forward was nowhere to be seen in the paint trying to get those rebounds. As a result Indiana got way too many 2nd and 3 chance attempts. But once again I am mentioning the negative things that happened. Perhaps Harris and Jackson were playing sick with the flu that is going around now. Tolliver looked like he was dragging out on the hardwood too. Others came up big.

The Detroit Pistons were on the chopping block by many fans.The chant was blow it all up.. The team reads some of that stuff and pulls out two road wins in back to back games with a good team on the 2nd night. Did I tell you that I am excited about these players. They have some grit. They are not perfect but they play like real basketball players and do not look like they are just going through the motions like good old Charlie V. Great win guys!

My prediction is that Cleveland is not going to make the NBA finals this time around. Maybe I am wrong but I expect burn out this time around. They are stacking up wins on the back of Labron. How long can he keep that up? This is his last stand in Cleveland. James is pouring out his heart now to make those wins possible. Without Irving I cannot believe that they will survive to the finals of the Eastern conference unless some other team gives them another stud player or Thomas plays like a demon if he does come back this year. The hip injury he sustained is nasty.

[Sparma]

Good game by SJ.  

I've been paying more attention to him, partly fueled by our discussion.  One thing I'll say in Don's favor is that he's being a real fan(atic) on SJ's behalf.  I find that refreshing.  Of course, Don's not beyond going negative too.

Ok, one thing that occurred to me watching SJ is that I'm not comfortable with his dribble.  For instance, on one play near midcourt he straight armed Stephenson, in a spot where you'd like to see him show great facility with the ball.

His shot's the main thing though.  Thanks for your insightful technical analysis on his shot, Don.  And thanks to Lemonpen for pointing out something obvious that I wasn't thinking of: the NBA 3 line's farther out.  I'm going to do some digging, but a few preliminary comments: I'd think that would account for some part of SJ's decline but by no means all of it.  His FG% in general is way down from college.  Also, I'm thinking that his 3% is down a lot more than is the norm for NBAers.  That's what I'd like to look into, focusing on the Pistons.

How does the shooting of NBAers compare to how they (rather than college players in general) shot in college?  I'll look that up for the Pistons.  My opening hypotheses would be: a) FT% goes up somewhat for NBAers moving from college, with these guys working hard to improve to keep earning the big check; b) the 3% goes down some, but not all that much, with better defending and a farther line offset by some improvement due to practice and experience, and c) the FG% stays about the same.

In SJ's case, his FT% is about the same, but his FG% and 3% are way down.  My hunch is that's not the standard pattern for NBAers.

SJ's shot came up in the broadcast, with Malik Allen's comment being passed along that SJ's had to work to release his shot with his elbow in a higher spot than he's accustomed to.  That drew my attention to his shooting on a couple of his free throws: my sense was he was releasing his shot with his elbow in a low point, something he can't get away with from the field in the NBA.  If he's comfortable with the low elbow, that could account for his FT% remaining stable, while his FG%'s gone down (along with other factors, one mentioned by Lemon).

As mentioned, I see him as a valuable hustle guy on the edge of the rotation, given his low salary.  If a rival GM envisions a much higher ceiling than that, we should definitely deal him.

[Oracle]

For a while in the second half, the O looked really fluid.  It helps when Galloway's hitting from distance.  Then it all stalled, but we held on.  Big effort by AD, eg, going up for the ball repeatedly late in the 4th, which led to a 3 point play, but also getting a last minute block against Oladipo (who should have passed).  Are we getting a streak going?

Drummond was a BEAST, but he got help from surprising places.

Bullock with 15 points, 3 steals and a block

Stanley(13 points, 6 boards & 4 assists)

Galloway(11 points)

Kennard starting and filling up the stat sheet with 9 points, 5 boards, 4 assists and a short armed block for Christ's sake 

No Bradley... no problem, Oladipo kicks his ass anyway!

Big Win on the road putting the Pacers down!

[Sparma]

For a while in the second half, the O looked really fluid. It helps when Galloway's hitting from distance. Then it all stalled, but we held on. Big effort by AD, eg, going up for the ball repeatedly late in the 4th, which led to a 3 point play, but also getting a last minute block against Oladipo (who should have passed). Are we getting a streak going?

[Oracle]

Stanley Johnson, as Phillip would say, is TRASH! At least playing for SVG, and none of the things you keep saying about him show up on the floor, or in his head.

He won't put in the work, he doesn't listen very well and he has been gifted everything he has like Stuckey was, but at least Stuckey was a real baller! You need to wake up and smell the coffee on this dude, Lemon has told you, SVG says it and damn near everybody here smells the crap.

Look, if Stanley was ANY good, he certainly should be able to take a job away from a dude like Bullock. A real baller beats Bullock any day of the week, but watch, Stanley won't earn the position back, he'll only get it if Bullock craps out.

Avery Bradley - I love him. He is undersized for the NBA but makes up for it with his high basketball IQ and conditioning. What an athlete. He so damn quick. I will be sick when he leaves because so many of you fans do not appreciate him. 

Don, you can love an ugly chick, saying she may be ugly, but she's damn good in bed. But you don't take her out in public unless you've got a strong stomach 

Hell, roaches are quick... so what, their Johnson's are scraping the floor too!

Get over this runt obsession, you'll feel better in the morning.

[cool breeze]

While I was all in for doing anything possible to make changes last season, I might be the lone Piston fan now who is not ready to create a mutiny and throw the captain and his crew overboard. Maybe the Lions have been such a big disappointment Detroit sports fans need to lash out on Piston players. Our players win a game and the the fans seem more angry than they were before the game. Is it the cold weather? maybe the wife is giving you the cold shoulder. Nobody is good enough for some of you. Send all of them out and get a superstar. Everyone we have is a reject too. Maybe these players had that horrible outing because they do not like some of the fickle Piston fans. Some of you are beating your chest earlier on. Now you fear the worst. The same roster players who somehow came together as a team and played exceptionally well beat some of the top teams including Golden State and Boston. They won because they played well as a team. Last night I saw some of the positive signs that I saw when everyone was riding high. Maybe these players cannot bond with you. Some of you sound like small children and go off on rants on how Stanley Johnson is a bust and has greatly disappointed you. One of the posters said today that Johnson is lazy. But before the last game started Greg Kelser said that he had talked to SVG and Stan said that Stanley has had some good practices and is working hard. Just what is wrong with his floor game is you can forget about his recent problems shooting the jump shot? Opps I forgot you can't forget about Johnson not being a high scoring superstar at this point in his life of 21 years. Soon you will be saying the same thing about Ellenson and Kennard. This is what went on when Knight was a young kid too. But barring two knee injuries Knight would be one of the top players in the league now. He has been unlucky but the dedication and high basketball IQ Knight had make me like him a lot. Many of you never saw it. He was another bust. I think some of you believe it is easy to get a player to come to Detroit who can play basketball like our Zeke. I have news for you. That might be a once in a lifetime thing. Zeke was one of the few players that came to the NBA fully equipped to be a superstar when he was 20 years old. I agree we do not have a Zeke on this roster. But now everything has changed due to AAU ball where players do not develop a skill set like Zeke did. All of the players have gaps in their games. Sure I agree that in hindsight the Pistons should have drafted the high scoring 2 guard playing for the Suns instead of Johnson. But at the time this team had Pope that some fans thought would become a superstar. We needed a small forward for the future.

I think the only way a team situated in Detroit Michigan which is a place where few extremely rich players want to live near will ever obtain a superstar player will be through the draft. Nobody can go out and find a bunch of stud players, put them together and win a championship if you are a GM working for the Pistons. Some of you really believe that you can see the future and trust in your crystal ball. Others just like to vent after losing. But if you think about the past and how the Pistons won championships with two different teams in our time of life, then you will agree that both teams had one thing in common. Everyone who played in the rotation had a designated role and all of the players knew what that role was and accepted the role and worked hard to fulfill that role the team needed to win. Everyone was on the same page. The way I see it right now we have the players who if they were actually given a set of instructions as to what their individual role was for the team and they got on board with it, then we would see a big change in consistency. All of you it seems have come down with a vengeance against Stanley Johnson. Yet he might be one of those players who is the most likely to accept whatever role the coach has for him. Let's go through the role each player should be providing and see if you agree with me. If nothing else Johnson is a good rotation player to have around. He is not making a lot of money either so for you who want him gone, what are you going to replace him with for the money he is making now?

Stanley Johnson = As the coach as stated, Johnson's role is to defend the opponents best skill player depending on the size. As Bradley is also a top tier defender, he will be matched up with the best smaller skill player. Johnson's role on defense is also to help out AD in the paint and screen out opponents who are good at getting to the glass. Johnson has a limited role on offense. What does he do well on offense? He gets to the spots where the coach wants him to be which is usually the opposite side of the action strong side. When he gets the ball on the baseline he does drive it well and can see the floor well as he has hit AD many times in the paint for easy dunk shots. He can also dribble drive and come to a jump stop and get his shot off. He is just not making his shots yet. Johnson gets steals and passes the ball well in transition. Do you really believe that Johnson will not eventually average 10 to 12 points a game by the time he is 23 years old and supply the defense any team needs to contend for a championship? SVG considers Johnson a starter if not now in the future. That is because Johnson has a high basketball IQ with a long history of being on championship teams. He is a dedicated hard working kid now but gets down on himself because he is not having enough scoring success. But the Pistons do not need his scoring. I still see Johnson having a bright future on a winning team. You all have misjudged him because you want a player who scores the basketball and that is how you judge all players. Yet remember Prince and his initial role? He was a defender who is remembered for stating away Reggie Miller's layup attempt in the playoffs. How old was Prince when he did that? Didn't Prince play 4 years of college? Prince was the guy who didn't need to score but really filled that big role as a defender, rebounder and overall smart player. However you slice it, Stanley Johnson is not the problem relating to why the Pistons are not championship contenders yet. When Prince was playing at Johnson's age or older, he had top tier vets that all knew and executed their roles perfectly. But you have signed out Johnson as a failure. He is not a failure. Johnson is not playing next to Billups , Hamilton, Wallace and Wallace. What if the Pistons had Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace with the likes of Hamilton and Billups?

Reggie Jackson = Reggie is not Zeke or Mr. BigShot. Jackson is learning how to play point guard. He is not there yet. His defense has been below average but this season he is at least trying to get better because he is one of the targets of opposing teams. I only wish that Reggie would play with a consistent tempo, cut down the turnovers, get the entry pass out quickly and see the floor better. Jackson has the potential to shoot the lights out but his overall floor game is just not good enough when thinking about playoffs where you cannot show any weakness. In the past the Pistons needed an outstanding leader type high quality top tier point guard to win the title. Reggie is not ready to fill that type of role. Should the Pistons trade him and wait until they can hopefully find the point guard they need through the draft? I say YES. But I do not dislike Reggie in any way and pull for him to be that player to fill that role.

Andre Drummond - This is the player I do not understand yet. What role is designated for AD by the coach? I am not sure. With Ben Wallace the coach had a player who was given a role that a lot of players wouldn't want and performed like a champ. He suck it up and became a top defender, rim protector and big play guy on defense. The team he played on could count on him to do the dirty work and they all loved him for the effort he gave doing it. He was undersized but outplayed the 7 footers. He didn't jog up and down the court either. He was back in transition causing problems. If there was ever a Piston player who had a clear cut role for his team, it was Ben Wallace. We do not have a center who has a designated role. AD is supposed to be a superstar because he is making the most money. Yet AD is not a good or average defender yet. And although he gets tons of rebounds, he doesn't do the sure thing to get those rebounds in big moments such as boxing or screening out opposing high flying big men. I think if AD would accept having a more defined role for the team which is more limited and the coach writes down exactly what he expects of AD, then maybe Andre would be a lot happier and even more successful because his team would be winning more and he would be the reason for it. I think that last season maybe the biggest problem was that AD was not told what was expected out of him. He was supposed to do everything so he developed a weak baseline hook shot thinking he needed to score more because he was making so much money. No AD needs to become a feared defender in the paint with that size and weight and quickness, AD should make the All Star team every year just by getting the reputation of being that monster in the paint where nobody can enter without feeling a lot of pain. On offense, AD now has a more defined role as a ball distributor. And he did a great job of finding cutters in this last game. He must not allow opposing centers to block him out or hold him so he fails to get to his spot around the free throw line to get the motion offense moving. If AD can get a more refined role and work at it, then he can be part of a championship team in Detroit.

Tobias Harris = Unless AD becomes the monster paint protector and helps Harris more on defense, opposing teams will attack Harris much like they attack Jackson. Harris is undersized for a power forward. But his defense is improving. He has more issues playing small forward with the quicker players playing that position. The power forward position is not the position where a lot of teams count on consistent shooting from the outside. Harris has been pretty good so far but had a group of games until the Atlanta game where he had difficulty finding the range from distance. He can drive it and must get better doing that when the long range shots are not going down. Harris is making a lot of money. I really like him but if a superstar player is available in the future at that position then the Piston management must consider other options. Yet who knows how good he might be in two years? I don't really know. He for sure is a solid rotation player.

Smith - I am not sure Smith could hold his own in a playoff setting being that he is ball dominate and has a small body for NBA players. He would be a guy opponents would post up in the playoffs and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. But I like the effort Smith is making. He flies up and down the court. That takes supreme effort. Yet I liked the way Galloway ran the team last night when he played point guard. He got the pass out and moved without the ball and then would get the ball back and look for another cutter. Maybe there is room for both of those players on a good team depending on matchups but I would like to see Galloway more rather then less playing point guard. Perhaps he could take some of Reggie's minutes.

Avery Bradley - I love him. He is undersized for the NBA but makes up for it with his high basketball IQ and conditioning. What an athlete. He so damn quick. I will be sick when he leaves because so many of you fans do not appreciate him.

Kennard, Ellenson, Moreland = For those of you who want a blow up now and are ready to package everyone and anyone, maybe one or both of these young players might be exactly what you have been wishing for all along. Like Johnson, Kennard and Ellenson are extremely young but show some real talent in my opinion. For these young players please consider that they are going up against players 3 to 10 years older with a lot of experience. Everyone has to suffer disappointment and get bigger and stronger while figuring out what it takes to become a good NBA player. No team is going to give up a sure fire superstar or above average hard working NBA player unless they are blowing up their team. I really like these players and am enjoying watching the process. I suggest some of you try to bond with these players and instead of plotting ways to get rid of them, have patience and enjoy watching the ride they are on now. I think Kennard is going to be one of those hard players to guard in the future. He needs to get stronger and used to the grind. But this guy has a scoring ability and basketball IQ that should provide us with a lot of excitement moving forward. I say Kennard with be scoring in high volume within two more seasons. But I know that is much too long to wait for some of you Piston fans. I have lost patience with the Lions and Tigers but not the Pistons.

I am just hoping these roster players you hate prove you all wrong. I am even pulling for Stan Van Gundy to find a way to pull off a miracle with this group. Get revenge against the fans. They hate you. I will admit that i know very little about what is going on in practice, what the players are doing off the court, or how hard the coaching staff is working. I can only speculate and suspect I might be wrong about a lot of things. because I know nobody in the inner circle. I do know you have to be a part of the thing before you know much at all. But it is clear that some of you who think you know fall into that category of people the great Mark Scott identified. I used to listen to him on the radio about philosophy (objectivism) and the news. His greatest statement which he said a lot of the time was "they don't know that they don't know". People who think they know things but put no effort into learning about the thing they are providing an opinion about, simply do not know that they don't know. they fail to get information from all the different sources available and get comfortable with being told how to think. That is the worst thing we can do. We have all done it too. And when we form the wrong opinion on something or someone we know very little about and hurt them in some way, that is on us. So it is good to use more caution and check our premises. Give these players some love. Try not to be so mean Piston fans.

[WTF]

Thanks Oracle, but Wise has pretty much been saying the same thing since the beginning of the season, with his "next level" argument.  Even when we were 14-6, Wise was skeptical that this team could contend in the long run, as currently constructed.  It just took me a while longer to come to the same conclusion.

Murph we should have been at next level 2 seasons ago

[WTF]

Would you package up Reggie with Stanley, Ellenson & Kennard to get a star?

We give up whomever as long as we get better in doing so,  all players should be on the table in trade discussions.   While 'm high on bought Kennard and Ellenson I know that SVG is not the right coach for either player so they're doomed to being no different than all the other players whom came and gone that had a ton of upside.


Oracle it was only 2 years ago we were high on this team we should be at Next Level right now today and Murph it was only 4 years ago when we touting KCP, Moose and Andre as the next best things.  When I think about where we actually picked in the draft the last 7 drafts it makes my stomach hurt being in the position we're in now.  

SVG attempts to do what Joe attempted to do out of desperation landing Jennings and Smith SVG tried with Harris and Bradley with lesser results truthfully IMO.   Joe wasn't close to being as dumb as SVG is proving to be and Gores not at nearly smart as Mrs. D

[Phil-Good]

One of the most disappointing facts about Johnson is that his work ethic is poor.

You can tell that he does not put in the work that it takes to be A NBA player.

But I'm done with talking about Johnson.

He is a BUST and it's time to move on from this disaster call Stanley Johnson THE BUST!

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