Re: FORUM

[WTF]

After looking at the lotto teams schedules it seems that the Pistons will be picking between 8-10 (almost certain that Philly will drop below us)...
If we draft Oladipo my guess is that Knight moves back to PG and we don't re-sign Calderon
If we Draft Porter then it's status quo and we try to sign JC.
If we draft Shabazz he can play either sg of sf (almost 7' wingspan).
As much as I like Burke I can't see him guarding Rose or Irving (or many big guards).
I like Josh Smith today but not tomorrow when athleticism is no longer an advantage...
I would like to keep the age of our F.A. below 27... we should come to grips with the window of the Heat & OKC... if we can't compete for a ship in the next couple years then we have to go young.

Merc I think you and others under-estimate Burke defensively plus you have to factor in the defensive present placed behind Burke. Josh Smith and Drummond clearly gives Burke all the wiggle room he needs if he gets beat by the likes of Irving or Rose but who shutting those 2 down anyway. Lets keep in mind that neither CB or Rip were defensive wizards in the back court they had the Wallaces behind them.

The reasons you would want Burke is for the same reasons you would want to keep Calderon. I'm convince that Burke is just as good if not better and Burke comes a lot cheaper if we can draft him. I'll take the roster I suggested and give me an Affalo like SG and I say we competing next season and not 2 season from now. Shabazz hasn't impressed me one bit and Oladipo seems almost redundant (Stuckey, English, and Knight,)

[Oracle]

Wise, I think you over estimate Burke's ability to translate his game to the NBA and his lack of size.

None of that means he can't, but if anyone picks him, they just have to know that they're taking a big risk!

Given a choice between Burke and another guard with size, even if he's 20% less of a player, you pick the guard with size! Burke would have to be head and shoulders better to get drafted above that player!

Defensively he will ALWAYS be a liability, and the argument that having a great frontcourt to back his is weak! You have to think more team oriented!

Given that hypothetical team, if you have a guard that is a better defender, you have a largely improved team!

Burke will go in the first round, but he may not be a lottery pick, IMO!

[Oracle]

Lemon, I do agree that the better the players, the better the coach appears. As I just said to wise, that's probably the weakest argument in Frank's favor.

Given any set of players, a better coach yields better results, so if you only increase the talent of the players, you still have an underperforming team without getting a better coach. The weakest link principle is in full effect!

Wise, while your argument is more compelling on this one, I still see coaching as the nexus of the problem.

Having said that, you make a good point that Frank is also a victim of an existing management structure that's dysfunctional.

Yes we have a new Owner, but Joe really needs to bring back a winning atmosphere, and I don't feel that he's done that.

When people toil away and can't get a fair shot, that's bad. When some players appear to have no accountability for their play, that's not good either!

I want Joe to do this again('ship), but if he doesn't get it together soon, I think Gores should do a complete house cleaning and bring some fresh new ideas & thinking .

So the jury is still out, but I still would like to get a new coach after Frank's contract expires next season.

However, if we suffer another horrible start, I'd fire his arse after 10 games!!!

[Oracle]

The hustle, saving posessions and garbage plays are off the hook with JJ!

[Oracle]

This article is pretty rough on our fearless leader!

The Freep Article - [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

The Original - [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

[Oracle]

They're taking over the 4th!!!

[WTF]

Wise, I think you over estimate Burke's ability to translate his game to the NBA and his lack of size.

None of that means he can't, but if anyone picks him, they just have to know that they're taking a big risk!

Given a choice between Burke and another guard with size, even if he's 20% less of a player, you pick the guard with size! Burke would have to be head and shoulders better to get drafted above that player!

Defensively he will ALWAYS be a liability, and the argument that having a great frontcourt to back his is weak! You have to think more team oriented!

Given that hypothetical team, if you have a guard that is a better defender, you have a largely improved team!

Burke will go in the first round, but he may not be a lottery pick, IMO!

Burke is so head and shoulders above everyone out the it's crazy. I know Oracle you have issues with his size and I just don't see it being an issue. If we were just talking talent with Burke I would agree with you but fundamentals carry over from college to pros and that's where Burke is solid. He's already playing like a pro the kid is too smart and too sound not to be able to make the transition.

Could it be that you're sold on Knight making the transition to PG that you don't want Burke to do it.

[Oracle]

Wise, I think you over estimate Burke's ability to translate his game to the NBA and his lack of size.

None of that means he can't, but if anyone picks him, they just have to know that they're taking a big risk!

Given a choice between Burke and another guard with size, even if he's 20% less of a player, you pick the guard with size! Burke would have to be head and shoulders better to get drafted above that player!

Defensively he will ALWAYS be a liability, and the argument that having a great frontcourt to back his is weak! You have to think more team oriented!

Given that hypothetical team, if you have a guard that is a better defender, you have a largely improved team!

Burke will go in the first round, but he may not be a lottery pick, IMO!

Burke is so head and shoulders above everyone out the it's crazy. I know Oracle you have issues with his size and I just don't see it being an issue. If we were just talking talent with Burke I would agree with you but fundamentals carry over from college to pros and that's where Burke is solid. He's already playing like a pro the kid is too smart and too sound not to be able to make the transition.

Could it be that you're sold on Knight making the transition to PG that you don't want Burke to do it.

I'm almost 100% sure that we won't draft Burke, simply because our needs in the first round won't allow it, and he won't be there in the 2nd round.

On Knight, I'm pro Knight for similar reasons! I see a winners personality, and if you have that with talent, it pushes your value higher.

However, I will conceed that I agree with your assessement on Burke, fundamentals do carry over very well.

I fully believe that he will be successful at the next level, but his size will always be an issue unless he becomes a Chris Paul, at which point nobody will give a crap about size!

[Sparma]

Exciting game. Fun to see the team work so hard in the 4th quarter (and no surprise to see Dirk hitting the biggest shots and CV missing them). Excellent game by Knight, who turned his agression to good effect tonight. Terrific shooting by CV and Middleton during the comeback.

PP gave Calderon a C- in spite of 7 assists and 0 TOs. He has his shortcomings (the usual D and a bit of an off night shooting), but that's ridiculous, especially when you add his (6?) rebounds. Down the stretch the Dallas announcers singled out JC, CV, and Middleton. For the game as a whole, Knight was the standout.

[deusXango]

Wise, when we watch U of M play we have the opportunity to see the next NBA superstar PG in Trey Burke, and I for one appreciate you for turning my attention to him. Oracle, I wouldn't judge this young man's future based solely on his height (that's been proven to be an over-rated deterrent for players who have game, and Burke has game) as there have been exceptions to the rule; who wouldn't take Iverson coming out of G-Town, or have Paul on their team? Most recently we passed on Ty Lawson because we were still laboring under the false notion that Stuckey was getting such a bad break, and the coaching carousel accounted for him not developing into this star PG...all of the above mentioned would have excelled in spite of Curry and Kuester! Today I would take Lawson over Knight as a PG....all 6' 0" of him. Burke is not "flashy" but more of a 6 ft. Tim Duncan...fundamentally sound and a 15 year player, should he remain major injury free.

Trey Burke represents more than just a PG and team leader, but the re-esthablishment of a shrinking fan base (let us not forget those empty seats at the Palace with Knight starting, and playing extended minutes) and saving us from ourselves by pinning the future on another 6th man...make no mistake about it, Knight is going to be one hell of a 6th man but, 6th man none the less. The power/value of Knight today is he makes both Calderon and Stuckey expendable, two players that represent major bucks and/or appealing pieces in a sign and trade scenario. Andre Drummond is the cornerstone of this franchise (who we've only gotten a small taste of) and long range he'd benefit more from having Burke to grow with, as the teams PG, than Knight IMHO. Knight is a good team mate but, he shouldn't be a focal point of the Pistons.

The veteran leadership that this team needs should come from an everyday starter, and should be a big man...to that end, IMO, we make a big mistake by turning our backs on Josh Smith because of any imaginary bias of others that have been well articulated. The man is a vet who can give us 5-6 years of extremely high level defensive play, and has an all-around solid skill set (rebounds, passes, and scores). For us he's worth a max contract (considering what we've paid others who brought less to the table), and we're in the rare position to pay a max for all-star caliber talent. Drummond, Smith, Knight, and Burke is one hell of a core group and the foundation of a team in contention.

It has been suggested that we pursue O.J. Mayo during the off-season, and failing to land both Burke and Oladipo (I'm taking Burke in the 1st round), signing Mayo is a great option over re-signing Calderon, even though he'd make a great mentor for Burke...if Joe could see his way clear to get both, great! The only remaining hole in the starting lineup is SF but, with the performance Middleton has been giving us when the opportunity's been there, I'm willing to wait before passing judgement on that need. With Maggette, Bynum, and Maxiell gone, (that's the money for Calderon and Mayo), and the suggestion that we except a sign and trade of Smith for Monroe and Stuckey, and drafting Burke is not too high a mountain for Dumars to climb this off-season. I just hope he's got the backbone to do it.

[WTF]

Maybe we can't get him in the draft but then again maybe we can and Joe would be dumb to pass on him if plced in a draft position to grab him. We don't need a PG that defends but, IMO Burke can defend at the next level even at 6'1

They (many) have already made the Chris Paul comparsion and some think Burke may be right there with him as a pro player. More times than not I disagree with the Hype Machine but not this time with Burke because it's not Hype! he is the Real Deal. If his games were hit and miss then I would have my doubts like everyone else but this kid is consistently good, nothing changes in his game in 2 seasons. He was so fundamentally sound when he first hit the court as a freshman in Ann Arbor he would have been a lottery pick last draft if he entered.

I'm not being a homer I watched the other guys (Big Talents) and none have been as consistent as Burke, none have shown the level of BB IQ Burke has and none are as fundamentally sound as Burke. All the talking heads try to find the slightest of flaws in his game and can't. In 2 seasons I can't recall Burke making a bad pass even in his freshmen season.

[deusXango]

"Trey Burke's stock is soaring, and he's playing arguably the best ball of anyone in the country. He led Michigan back from a second-half deficit against Purdue with a typical 26-point, seven-assist, one-turnover winning performance.

His ability to score and facilitate while protecting the ball has been extraordinary. He's got the best assist-to-turnover ratio of any point guard in the country, a stat that can go a long way considering he's playing in the toughest conference in America.

Burke surpassed Michael Carter-Williams on the big board and could end going top 10 if the lottery plays out to his favor."
-Bleacher Report 3/7/2013

Joe Dumars has a chance to pick this young man and doesn't, it'll rank right up there with the Darko over Carmelo fiasco, and I don't give one sh!t what anyone would have to say in his defense. Trey Burke is our draft pick and Josh Smith is our FA signee, end of story!!!!!

Wise, I'm with you 100.

[merc]

Don, Can you give your impressions on Shabazz... I'm sure you see him more than we do.
It seems like he gets in trouble when he has to dribble... ESPN has him dropping to #8
He reminds me of a young Gerald Wallace.
I like his teammate Adams.

[WTF]

"Trey Burke's stock is soaring, and he's playing arguably the best ball of anyone in the country. He led Michigan back from a second-half deficit against Purdue with a typical 26-point, seven-assist, one-turnover winning performance.

His ability to score and facilitate while protecting the ball has been extraordinary. He's got the best assist-to-turnover ratio of any point guard in the country, a stat that can go a long way considering he's playing in the toughest conference in America.

Burke surpassed Michael Carter-Williams on the big board and could end going top 10 if the lottery plays out to his favor."
-Bleacher Report 3/7/2013

Joe Dumars has a chance to pick this young man and doesn't, it'll rank right up there with the Darko over Carmelo fiasco, and I don't give one sh!t what anyone would have to say in his defense. Trey Burke is our draft pick and Josh Smith is our FA signee, end of story!!!!!

Wise, I'm with you 100.

I'm hoping like hell we're in a position to draft Burke and if not we should trade the pick or go after Carter-Williams. There is also one other PG playing in the Detroit area by the name of Ray McCallum that's averaging 19.1 points 5.1 rebounds and 4.7 assist for the Titans. I would also consider drafting him as well maybe not with a lotto pick but early in the 2nd. He's another PG that been getting all the press in the area locally and this kid can flat out play not as fundamentally sound as Burke but damn close. IMO the best 2 PG in the country are at U of M and U of D

[Oracle]

"Trey Burke's stock is soaring, and he's playing arguably the best ball of anyone in the country. He led Michigan back from a second-half deficit against Purdue with a typical 26-point, seven-assist, one-turnover winning performance.

His ability to score and facilitate while protecting the ball has been extraordinary. He's got the best assist-to-turnover ratio of any point guard in the country, a stat that can go a long way considering he's playing in the toughest conference in America.

Burke surpassed Michael Carter-Williams on the big board and could end going top 10 if the lottery plays out to his favor."
-Bleacher Report 3/7/2013

Joe Dumars has a chance to pick this young man and doesn't, it'll rank right up there with the Darko over Carmelo fiasco, and I don't give one sh!t what anyone would have to say in his defense. Trey Burke is our draft pick and Josh Smith is our FA signee, end of story!!!!!

Wise, I'm with you 100.

I'm hoping like hell we're in a position to draft Burke and if not we should trade the pick or go after Carter-Williams. There is also one other PG playing in the Detroit area by the name of Ray McCallum that's averaging 19.1 points 5.1 rebounds and 4.7 assist for the Titans. I would also consider drafting him as well maybe not with a lotto pick but early in the 2nd. He's another PG that been getting all the press in the area locally and this kid can flat out play not as fundamentally sound as Burke but damn close. IMO the best 2 PG in the country are at U of M and U of D

What did you say about him?

[WTF]

I never cared for Denard Robinson because I don't like gimmick QB's. I'm a Die Hard Wolverine Fan yet almost hated Denard as QB. There was really nothing special about Denard and he's destine for being a kick returner in the pros at best and as a QB you can say he just tick above Tebow another gimmick QB.

[Oracle]

I never cared for Denard Robinson because I don't like gimmick QB's. I'm a Die Hard Wolverine Fan yet almost hated Denard as QB. There was really nothing special about Denard and he's destine for being a kick returner in the pros at best and as a QB you can say he just tick above Tebow another gimmick QB.

I agree, but he was getting the hype like Burke.

The difference is that Burke, as you said, is fundamentally sound and not using smoke & mirrors!

I'm predisposed to like Burke, but he has one more hurdle to jump over before I jump on the bandwagon with you and DX.

I want to see how they fare in the final four tournament. If he shows that he can perform under the pressure of that levle of competition, I'll really be on board.

But could you and DX do me a favor?

Just zip up your pants before posting about Burke, it's getting embarrassing...

[WTF]

Oracle that's does stick in the back of my mind with Burke. I think he's played very well in big games this year where they failed short (Indiana, Ohio and MSU). Not sure if I can judge him soley on the success of the Wolverines though, its a tough call because the team does live and die by the play of Burke, but when they lose it generally because others haven't stepped up in those big games. I have to keep in mind that he's been leading basically 4 freshmen all season and that the team is young. If Michigan is to make a big showing in the tourney's Hardaway, Morgan, and Robinson Jr are going to have to step up as well. Robinson was considered to be a potential lottery pick early on and has been so-so once the Big Ten season started. Hardaway been consistent but he need to have more big games and Morgan been nursing injuries all season.

Everyone else are freshmen though talented this will be their first trip to the big dance. This team sometimes live and die by the outside shot, but Burke capable of dominating games with his play and I think both he and Hardaway wants a little pay-back for last Tourney. I'll be disappointed if Burke doesn't show up (not likely) but I won't think differently if the team falters because it's so young and Hardaway must be on his game in order for them to advance.

[deusXango]

Oracle, that was a good one. LOL. Nothing like a good zinger to start the day. I think there's a world of difference between Robinson and Burke...on the next level the odds of success are far greater for Burke than Robinson. I like Wise's comparison of Tebow and Robinson...both highly popular in college but, destined to be mildly successful in the pros. Other than that, I've nothing to say about Denard Robinson...don't want him to be drafted by the Lions but, I want the Pistons to draft Burke!!

Don't wait for the Final Four to put your eyeballs on Burke, today at 4:00 p.m., the game against Indiana will be as great a test as any U of M will face in the NCAA's. This is the Big 10 "hoss", and the competition this year is as fierce as any in the country...treat yourself to what Wise and I have been talking about. Side note: we also get a chance to see Indiana's best player (Victor Oladipo) go against top notch competition. Damn good game.

[Oracle]

Just can't win the big ones!

[deusXango]

Just can't win the big ones!

Oracle, it seems that he certainly had a bad game. Did you see the hard-nosed play by Oladipo, and the genuine emotion he displayed after the game? That kid's going to be a heck of a pro.

[Oracle]

He's seriously got to say out of the way of these plays against you of the year stuff!

That's the bad news, the good news is that he was actually contesting a center, and this time, there SHOULD have been one of our bigs doing it, but they don't seem to think guarding big men is part of their job description!!!

This is really where we miss Drummond!

[Oracle]

CV?

Oh yeah, it was really sweet, but at the half, we're down 70-52!

If they were horses, you'd have to shoot'em!

[Oracle]

Is NOT coming back to this team!

If he does, it will be a miracle, and the Miracles left Detroit years ago

[Oracle]

Even guards have no fear that Monroe will block a shot!

For a big that plays center, he's to blocks what CV used to be with rebounds... he just won't or can't get blocks!

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