Players Playing Out of Position

[Grizz2]

Murph, Wise Well said! I dont think anything has gotten me more upset . .Not Darko .. not the AA or Budinger or Billups give-aways .. the drafting of both Summers AND Daye over Blair .. nothing has gotten more upset over the past 4 seasons that players played out of position .. This is not small potatoes because the result is the team's development and player's development are destroyed .. often seriously damaged beyond recall .. I can think of actually few players who have NOT played out of position on the Pistons for the past 3 or 4 seasons .. Daye at SG and PF (!) Prince at PF, Stuckey at PG ... JJ at PF ... Jmax at Center ... and on and on .. It is all such bull manure with the teams and the players twisting themselves into Knots because Dumars wont plan farther ahead than his next donut break to make sure the team has a full complement of players at all positions .. Definitely Grounds for firing the head coach and the GM .. What-the-F Angry has been my response and it shows an utter lack of respect to the players and to the fans .. and so . . . the logical next step is FIRE JOE DUMARS!

[Sissy1946]

Daye shoots an amazin' 1-11, drops 23 lbs. in the process, Vernon Macklin finally gets some burn, I believe he got 23 minutes scoring 8 points & grabbing 9 rebounds warranting him to see more action, finally Frank. Writing on the wall for a few of these wannabe players. Say good-bye to Wilkens fans, Austin looks like he's not ready for the NBA anytime soon, "Ball Hog" Bynum might have seen is last season in Detroit, Good-bye Ben, thanks for the Good Years. Maxi-Pads, I definitely wouldn't lose any sleep over him if he left, although if Ben would stick around & coach maybe he could save Maxi-Pads & teach him how to play the game, he certainly doesn't deserve to start though. JJ, Moose, Brandon we will build with maybe a pick up of Kaman wouldn't hurt along with another big, amnesty Charley V or Ben Gordon & trade the other, have a nice draft & we are in business, am still worried about Jelly-Filled & the draft, he scares me big time. I know one thing, I'm just glad that Darko is not in this years draft, he-he!

[deusXango]

Grizz, the most damageing effect on the team, that playing players out of position, is Jelly Joe and Howdy Doody playing at being top executives. After watching the game carefully tonight the obvious revelation, to me at least, is we need a coach; Lil' Larry ain't the man for the job. Granted, Lil' Larry is much better than "banjo" and "Q", but damn near every poster on this forum is also! Being better than those two clowns is not to say that Frank is head coach material either; assistant coaching is what they are all cut out to do, and sitting in the head chair, they're playing out of position. The interviews given by Lil' Larry are approaching manical. Did anyone see him after the game? When asked about tomorrows game, he walked off muttering, "I'm not thinking about tomorrow.." The game is over! What the hell are you thinking about??!!!

After tonights decent effort, I wonder how much time will be given to Macklin from now to the end of the season? I know he came off the bench, but his numbers tonight projected over 48 minutes are what he averaged in the D-League. Just sayin'. The man played hard, ran the floor, and displayed an awareness of what was happening. He's not spectacular, but he is serviceable.

[merc]

It's Mr. Macklin man... the Macklin Meister... king of Mac-i-Land... Macklinamaniac... we be doin' the Mac-erena at Macklin Island....Havin' a Mack-attack.... Mac the Knife... when the shark bites... ooh yeah!

[Grizz2]

DX . Amen to all you said .. Disappointed in Frank's decision making in regard to who plays ... .Maybe you just cannot please the fans but simple basic stuff ..... Such as getting an inside game going by getting your BIG MAN (not men in our case) 20 shots or so .. and NOT playing Macklin even we are so much in need of developing or trading or drafting for another BIG .. is simply stupid .. WHY IN HEAVEN's name, should Russell and Wilkin get A LOT more minutes than Macklin?! So they can blossom as good players in a few year years at the age of 33? Ridiculous! Macklin has been proving he deserves some on court time ... and anger rising once again ..

[merc]

Has nothing to do with the Pistons... keepin' it light...

[Phil-Good]

WORDS FROM OUR MOST RECENT CASTOFF
deusXango Yesterday at 7:35 pm



"And Mr. Dumars, after overlooking DuJuan Blair until the Spurs snatched him up late in the second round (he's starting now), and giving away Chase Budinger to Houston (who's starting also), your third pick of the second round, I could've redeemed you with some sound play."

I'm not going to even talk about Chase Bud. That's just flat out crying about a spare tire that you don't need anyways.

As for DuJuan Blair, it's so funny that you deusXango are pumping Blair up because Blair has some of the exact same flaws that J.Sullinger has coming out of college. So call Undersize, over weight, not athletic at all. But you mad because Joe passed on him? Don't forget that Blair has no ACL's in both knees and every team in the NBA pass on him almost twice. 37th Pick in the second round. But Joe should had snatched him up?

But you been BLASTING Jared Sullinger ALL WEEK Long!

Come on Xango don't blast Green Apples but pump up Red Apples. They basically the same thing! Do your research son. If you double talking I will see it and call you out on it every-time!!!!!


Don't tell me Joe should have drafted Blair but Joe should not draft Jared Sullinger. Go do your research. They almost the exact same player. But Jared Sullinger is taller with more skills.

Don't say Isiah Thomas is too small then double talk yourself and say how I should have drafted Chris Paul.

PBoy say's Come on Xango don't blast Green Apples but pump up Red Apples. They basically the same thing!

PBoy you're only saying that because you haven't learn your colors yet....you big dummy. Apples are not all the same no matter what color they are dum dum. Ever had a Apple Pie made with Granny Smith Apples numbnut? not likely. They don't even taste the same.

Your analogies get dumber and dumber every time you use one. You don't even know the difference between apples how can your tiny knowledge of basketball be trusted when you think apples are the same.

Nobody was talking to you Mr Sour Cynic. The point I was trying to make is Blair and J.S. are very similar players. You telling me you don't want J.S. but you like Blair? That don't make any since! So go bite A black and purple apple Sour Cynic!

[deusXango]

Phillip, it's pure madness, and a total waste of time to go through a short season, end up with a lottery pick, and spend it on a player the caliber of Blair or Sullinger. Neither one of those guys are worthy lottery picks, albeit decent players.

I say again, after the first 3 or 4 picks this year, it's a crap shot in terms of what you're getting, unless you have multiple 1st round picks to spend on role players. We got one. Life is a gamble, and this ain't life; spin the wheel on Royce White. He ain't decent, he's got special talent. Come on P-Boy, you afraid of someone who's afraid of themselves?

[Murph]

It's Mr. Macklin man... the Macklin Meister... king of Mac-i-Land... Macklinamaniac... we be doin' the Mac-erena at Macklin Island....Havin' a Mack-attack.... Mac the Knife... when the shark bites... ooh yeah!

DX...good call on Macklin. He looks like a potential keeper. It's too bad we had to wait until the 5th from last game of the season to see it for ourselves.

[Murph]

Don't tell me Joe should have drafted Blair but Joe should not draft Jared Sullinger. Go do your research. They almost the exact same player. But Jared Sullinger is taller with more skills.

I gotta agree with P-Boy on this one. While I'd like more of a defensive minded PF, I'm ok with the Pistons taking Jared Sullinger. At least he's a big, highly skilled, PF, from a good program who can rebound and score in the post.

With that in mind, I wouldn't mind seeing a rotation that looks something like this, next year:

Knight, 2nd rounder such as Scott Machado, Bynum
Stuckey, Gordon
Prince, Jerebko, Singler
Sullinger, Macklin, Maxiell
Monroe, Kaman, Villanueva

resevers: Daye
Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pistons amnesty Charlie V, in favor of a 2nd round PF, such as Henry Sims, Furkan Aldemire or Yancy Gates.


I think that rotation would have a chance of playing .500, and squeezing into the playoffs.

[Fennis Dembo]

The Real Notes and Quotes from the Atlanta game not the stuff we get from the beat writers - by Biff Burns

Biff Burns: After a 39 point win on Tuesday, you were smoked like a bad cigar on Wednesday losing by 32 points.
Coach Frank: It reminded me of the movie “Deliverance” which was filmed not too far from here and I had the Ned Beatty part tonight. Not a good time was had by anybody on our team. I can still hear the dueling banjos. Wooo pig sooieee!

Biff Burns: Who's this? Who are you?
Vernon Macklin: I'm the player to be named later in the Afflalo-Sharpe trade, Vernon Macklin.
Biff Burns: They finally let you play for 23 minutes tonight and you had 8 points and 9 rebounds, a pretty good showing.
Vernon Macklin: I like rebounding and occasionally howling at the moon.
Biff Burns: As any good power forward should.

Biff Burns: Austin Daye started at small forward in place of Prince and had a rough night shooting 1 for 11 with 4 points.
Coach Frank: He looked like a guppy in a tank of piranhas. It was not a sight for the faint of heart.

Biff Burns: I am only saying this in a loving and constructive way. McGrady you did not suck tonight, scoring 17 points in 17 minutes.
Tracy McGrady: Burns leave me alone or I swear I’ll put a Latrell Sprewell choke hold on you.
Biff Burns: Yes, that was a real smart move. What did it cost him, about $7 million in lost salary?
Tracy McGrady: In my case it would be worth every penny of it.

Tom Gores: What's our record, Joe?
Joe Dumars: Twenty-three and thirty-nine.
Tom Gores: How'd we ever win twenty-three?
Joe Dumars: It's a miracle.
Tom Gores: It's a miracle alright that you still work for me.
Joe Dumars: This is a simple game. You pass the ball. You shoot the ball. You dribble the ball. You jump. You run. But more often than not, we just don’t do those things well enough to win.
Tom Gores: Which reminds me, your performance review is coming up soon.
Joe Dumars: I wonder if Biff Burns has any Valium?
Tom Gores: You will need it for sure.

Biff Burns: Well it’s back to the Palace for the third game in three nights. I hope that’s what Joe Dumars was referring to when he said something about a threesome. This is Biff Burns signing off from the planet Fripton.

[frankied]

in defense of frank, i think i see why he has been hesitant with macklin. i don't agree with his thinking, but i think i see his thought process.
macklin does look kind of lost out there. on both offense and defense, you can see that he doesn't quite know where to be, often. now, obviously, that is a matter of his being a rookie, but it is pretty obvious. he does what he does on the court due to his athleticism and body and skills.
now, i think it would be worth it to put him out there and let him struggle and learn.
that, obviously, is not what frank is comfortable with, hence, the fact that he plays wallace and wilkins so much. that reluctance, however flies in the face of "rebuilding". if you can't play young players when you are supposedly rebuilding, when will you play them? it is one reason i think frank is the wrong coach for this team. they need a coach that will be willing to play the young guys. frank is just a little bit better than flip.

[Phil-Good]

Come on P-Boy, you afraid of someone who's afraid of themselves?[/quote]

D.X. Yes.. White's Anxiety Disorder really scares me big time! Yes he is A very special talent. But his fear of flying is A major red flag. MAJOR! The NBA is all about travel, bus, train, cars, and air crafts all day long.

The Pistons can't gamble on A kid like that. OK City, and the Lakers. They can afford to take A chance on A kid like that. The Pistons can't.

Now if you talking about taking chances then let's talk about Michael Beasley. I would take A chance on him before A kid like White. Beasley will be A star in the NBA real soon when he finds A home just like Z-Bo.

[WTF]

I'm not going to tolerate any insults towards Mr. Flip Saunders Lil larry is not a better coach than Flip

[WTF]

Not that I have a preference for either player, because I still have hopes for drafting Barnes. I was just saying your analolgy was special, but somehow managed to still prove you theory wrong. They are 2 completely different players when it comes to what's inside of a player. Though they may have some similarities one will always be a better fit than the other dependent upon the team that selects them.

In fact I also prefer Henson over both as well.

And get over this Beasley love-fest because cheap Joe won't pay the cost to have him.

[Sissy1946]

The Pistons have a total of 31 points at the half, Stuckey, Gordon 0-4 & 0-2, Prince with 16, Brandon shooting 1-8, Anilation happening as we speak. Macklin, it seems that after having a decent game last night with 8 points & 9 rebounds that 'Lil Larry has seen enough of him as he's only played 1:40 in the 1st half, way to go Wieners & Franks. You sure know how to judge talent. 31 points in the half, Wow!

78-59 Wolves with 6 minutes to go in the 4th. ( Barf) we've got a lot of work with this team to even be average. 7 straight Piston points, 78-62, Love, Darko & Miller are not even playing for the Wolves & they are destroying us like we're an intramural team. Nice Jelly-Filled, you've ruined my Piston basketball season Discount Double Cheeks. If Gores don't fire you then I hope every season ticket holder goes down & try to get refunds from the fraud team we are seeing on the court. Pistons now down by 11 with under 3:00 to play, Pistons on a 15-3 run. Final Score: Detroit 80 Wolves 91. Wolves with their 1st victory in April, this stuff is not being made up, they destroyed the Pistons for their 1st victory in April in the D. Unbelievable, it could only happen to Jelly-Filled. Count that Baby & a Foul. Tell me Mr. Gores, have you seen enough?????????!!!

[Rett]

u go WILL!!

Lil Fella played his heart out in the 4th!!



GO PISTONS!!!

[Sissy1946]

Justin"Maxi-Pads" Maxiell is pondering his future with the Detroit Pistons: well you grateful non-playing, non-shooting tuurd, who wants you anyway? That shot of yours has got to be the worst looking tuurd shot I've ever seen. Seriously if he comes back to this team color me not interested, the same with Wilkens, he shouldn't even be on the team let alone coming back next year, hey Double Cheeks, we have to get better quality players, Walker D, "Ball Hog" Bynum, get on down the road, trade the Princella & after this draft we are going to see Dumars fired or stepping down, he will be overwhelmed at the draft, just wait & see. Gore's will come to our rescue & say he's had enough & only then will we start to see this team get better. I'm dreaming this one but Gores will hire Laimbeer for GM & woooo-doggies, watch this team take off & grow. The Sheed said so & for that reason count me in.

[Sissy1946]

u go WILL!!

Lil Fella played his heart out in the 4th!!



GO PISTONS!!!

The Real Stuff: But the other guys didn't play very well, for lack of talent or "Ball Hog" Bynum refused to pass the ball to his team-mates. Thank You fan (Wett), Thank You very much. I owe it all to my #1 Fan, Thank You Wett. That's right I'm not passing the ball to these guys, are you kiddin? Half of them shouldn't be on the team. Thank You!!!!! You go Will, can I get your autograph? In fairness to Will, he did have 17 points tonight with here it comes: he did pass the ball tonight for 1 assist, Will, now that's amazin'.

[Phil-Good]

This season is over. I liked what I saw 30 days ago. I don't like what I see now. I don't like Charlie V, I don't care too much for Austin Daye. That kid looks really bad. He been hanging around Charlie V way too much.

Let's hope we move up in the lottery or steal one hell of A good player or make A big trade and dump Ben Gordon and Charlie V.

No more wins baby! Tank it all day long.

[deusXango]

Best Case: $58.4 million (9)
Worst Case: $63.4 million (10)
Cap Holds: $5.1 million (4)

The Variables: The Pistons have been in a bad place cap-wise the past few years and that’s not going to change. Don’t expect Jason Maxiell to decline his $5.0 million Player Option because there really isn’t a market for his 6.5 points and 5.2 rebounds a game at $5.0 million. So close to the tax already, don’t expect the Pistons to make a splash anywhere unless they use amnesty, and even then they won’t get actual cap space (when taking exceptions and holds into account). The light at the end of the tunnel in Detroit is still very dim.

-hoopsworld.com

Mathmatics is an exact science, and the truth of these numbers means that no matter how much sh!t Joe talks, he has been incompetent.
We all have been appalled with the rosters he's put together, the players he's thrown away, the inept hiring practices, and the players he chose to spend the money on. Joe Dumars either doesn't want the job, or he can't do the job. No matter. It's time for Joe to fire Howdy Doody, then offer his resignation to Tom Gores at seasons end. That's the right thing to do. That will leave the shine on his legacy.
I'll remember him as a winner, both as player and GM, who the sophistication of the game got by him over time. We can respect a man who realizes this in himself, and steps down for the good of the franchise which was his lifes work. If he doesn't, then he's a middling old codger, self-centered to the inth degree, who'll allow his ego, basking in the glory of yesterday, to drag this ball club all the way down. Do the right thing Joe, just go!

[Oracle]

This season is over. I liked what I saw 30 days ago. I don't like what I see now. I don't like Charlie V, I don't care too much for Austin Daye. That kid looks really bad. He been hanging around Charlie V way too much.

Let's hope we move up in the lottery or steal one hell of A good player or make A big trade and dump Ben Gordon and Charlie V.

No more wins baby! Tank it all day long.

By playing these guys that never get to play, they're basically throwing in the towel. Talk about the RUST belt!!!

If this was sex, these guys would be Monks, they haven't seen action in YEARS! Well, Monks aren't a good analogy, because they NEVER get any action.

BTW, I caught an interview with Charlie V. - With apologies to Fennis

Biff Burns JR: Hey Charlie, you're seeing a lot of action now, how does it feel.

CV: Well junior, it's like riding, you never forget! I can toss up treys all night long... ain't no thang!

Biff Burns JR: Charlie, did you ever get an answer?

CV: Ok, you junior cub reporter from an anal metropolitan rag! You see an alien and you automatically assume we're phoning home for instructions! Well, kiss my bald ass, I don't need to phone home, us aliens get calls too.

Biff Burns JR: Sorry, I didn't mean to racially profile you, I know that you ET's aren't all the same. However, Piston fans want to know if you plan to go home, or at least occupy the bench of another team here on earth?

CV: Hey cubby, when you can collect the kind of duckets I'm getting from that sucker Dumars, why would you move one inch? I'm extending my career by not playing 82 games, which means I'll be fresh when I'm 44, to kick ass up and down the bench! Nope, even an alien knows when he's got it good, this ET is staying put!

[Fennis Dembo]

The Real Notes and Quotes from the Minnesota game not the stuff we get from the beat writers - by Biff Burns

Biff Burns: Minnesota had lost 11 games in a row coming into this game. They had lost 27 in a row in April spanning four seasons.
Coach Frank: Hopeless, it was utterly freaking hopeless. The law of averages was a two headed cobra just waiting to stick its venomous fangs in us. We had no chance at all.
Biff Burns: Your team needed to play like the snake killing mongoose.
Coach Frank: Unfortunately they played more like the defenseless field mouse.
Biff Burns: I can see you have been watching a lot of the “Animal Planet” channel lately.

The Three Goats of the Game:
1. Knight, 2 for 12 shooting, 5 points
2. Stuckey, 2 for 8 shooting, 4 points
3. Maxiell, 2 for 6 shooting, 4 points

Coach Frank: Ben Gordon is to the Pistons, what Sanjaya was to American Idol.
Biff Burns: What tone deaf? Couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket.
“Well that wasn’t horrible.” - Simon Cowell’s review of one of Sanjaya’s performances.
“Well that wasn’t horrible.” - Coach Frank’s review of Ben Gordon’s 5 for 14 shooting for 14 points, 2 turnovers, 2 fouls, and 2 of his shots blocked by the Wolves.

Biff Burns: Well look at the bright side Joe. With every loss you might be helping your chances of getting a better player in the draft lottery.
Joe Dumars: Sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic globule, from which one extracts what one needs.
Biff Burns: There you have it fans. Joe D using a quote from his favorite movie “White Men Can’t Jump”. I think the movie might have been loosely based on Darko’s time with the Pistons.
Joe Dumars: Don’t you get tired of harassing me?
Biff Burns: Yes, but now I’m well rested.

Biff Burns: I would like to thank Biff Burns Jr. for his interview with a truculent Charlie V. If they get rid of him today it won’t be too soon for me. Charlie V, I mean, not Biff Burns Jr.

Biff Burns: We are down to the final three games of the season for the Pistons. The next game is Sunday against Toronto at the Palace. Let’s see which team can play worse and end up with more lottery balls.

[deusXango]

Pistons fans web-wide, say that our collective dream becomes a reality and we end up with the 1st pick, and Jelly & Howdy draft Anthony Davis; who's to coach him? Lil' Larry is going to develop and bring out the best in a big man? Where in his entire career is there any evidence that he's capable of that feat? What did he do with the bigs in Jersey? What has he done with Villanueva, Jerebko, and Macklin here, in terms of development? The only thing that he did for Maxiell was give him PT, other than that, he's the same player he's always been.

It's one thing to preach defense, and another to teach defense. I've watched the Pistons carefully and don't see any radical lock-down defensive schemes, just individual effort and athleticism. That's not taught, that's individual decision coupled with God given talent, that Lil' Larry is taking credit for. So do we draft this kid and allow him to "raise" himself in the pro game? Bullsh!t. If he should get hurt, then he wasn't phyically ready; if he doesn't develop fast enough, then he's a bust and was over-rated. Everything but Lil' Larry being an incompetent coach. He's an assistant that we got by with this year because he looks good compared to his predecessors, but make no mistake, if this team is to flourish and grow, we need a real defensive minded coach. If we end up with Anthony Davis, Lil' Larry should be immediately relieved of duty. If Greg Monroe is the MOP, how much of that improvement is on the defensive end?

[Sebastian]

Pistons fans web-wide, say that our collective dream becomes a reality and we end up with the 1st pick, and Jelly & Howdy draft Anthony Davis; who's to coach him? Lil' Larry is going to develop and bring out the best in a big man? Where in his entire career is there any evidence that he's capable of that feat? What did he do with the bigs in Jersey? What has he done with Villanueva, Jerebko, and Macklin here, in terms of development? The only thing that he did for Maxiell was give him PT, other than that, he's the same player he's always been.

It's one thing to preach defense, and another to teach defense. I've watched the Pistons carefully and don't see any radical lock-down defensive schemes, just individual effort and athleticism. That's not taught, that's individual decision coupled with God given talent, that Lil' Larry is taking credit for. So do we draft this kid and allow him to "raise" himself in the pro game? Bullsh!t. If he should get hurt, then he wasn't phyically ready; if he doesn't develop fast enough, then he's a bust and was over-rated. Everything but Lil' Larry being an incompetent coach. He's an assistant that we got by with this year because he looks good compared to his predecessors, but make no mistake, if this team is to flourish and grow, we need a real defensive minded coach. If we end up with Anthony Davis, Lil' Larry should be immediately relieved of duty. If Greg Monroe is the MOP, how much of that improvement is on the defensive end?

DX, since the failed experiment of Michael Curry that was only one year, I have always thought the best person to coach OUR squad would be Joe Dumars, himself.

Think about: Joe is responsible for the composition of OUR roster. He drafted Stuckey, Daye, Monroe, Tay, Brandon, Jerebko. He (re)signed Ben G., Charlie V., and Will B., Jerebko, Tay, and Stuckey.

Joe is the person, who has trumpeted the "back to work" mantra; talked about the Piston philosophy, so on and so forth.

It is Joe, too, who played the game with a cerebral approach. He was a main source of consultation and support, while Doug Collins and Allen Gentry were coaching, during the '90s. Indeed, Joe was a great mentor to Grant Hill when Hill was leading OUR Pistons.

Joe should tell Larry thanks for his efforts, during this compressed, shorten season, and send him off with his buyout settlement.

Joe should become the head coach of the Detroit Pistons. He should then hire Lindsey Hunter, Rick Mahorn, and Rasheed Wallace as members of his coaching staff.

Think about it folks, Joe becoming the Head Coach/President of Basketball Operations is the only way for him to secure his position/status in the organization.

Joe would make an excellent Head Coach for OUR Pistons!

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