Kelly Olynyk???

[Murph]

So let me get this straight.  The Pistons traded Mason Plumlee so they could sign that turd Kelly Olynyk to a 3 year, $37 million contact???  WTF???  At that price, the Pistons will never be able to dump him.  I can't believe I have to watch that turd stink up the joint and take minutes away from our younger big men for the next 3 years.

Weaver doesn't make many mistakes, but this is one of them.  

[Murph]

It's good to see Corey Joseph coming back at 2 years and $10 million. Joseph is just the kind of inexpensive, low key, veteran leadership that the Pistons need to set and example for their young backcourt. Joseph is an old school pass-first PG that will set a great example, and he will gladly come off the bench.

[Murph]

Phil...those are some great observations. Yes, hopefully Cade will be a hard working, humble, likable guy....a Chauncey Billups type of leader for the Pistons for the next decade at least.

Proof that Detroit took the right kid.

Jalen Green look like he was taking pictures flashing his jewelry. Like he was at a f.u.c.k.I.n.g rape concert!

Cade look professional and was with his family. Kid is very mature and ready to work.

Good job Pistons!

Pistons got a very mature guy to step in and be a man and work from day 1

[Oracle]

@Phillip - I saw most of his interviews yesterday and I'm very impressed with his maturity.

Rod Beard explained what you mean very well in this video: Video: Rod Beard on the Pistons' 2021 draft

@Murph - You have been amazingly on the ball with your analysis, I didn't call them predictions because you obviously had to think this through, congrats!

I liked moving Plumlee, but I thought we gave up a LOT. My only guess is that we just needed to dump the salary and allowed ourselves to get bent over.

I mean, what sense does it make to trade Plumlee and the 37th pick, and get back a WORSE pick at 57... WTF???

Proof that Detroit took the right kid.

Jalen Green look like he was taking pictures flashing his jewelry. Like he was at a f.u.c.k.I.n.g rape concert!

Cade look professional and was with his family. Kid is very mature and ready to work.

Good job Pistons!

Pistons got a very mature guy to step in and be a man and work from day 1

[Phil-Good]

Proof that Detroit took the right kid.

Jalen Green look like he was taking pictures flashing his jewelry. Like he was at a f.u.c.k.I.n.g rape concert!

Cade look professional and was with his family. Kid is very mature and ready to work.

Good job Pistons!

Pistons got a very mature guy to step in and be a man and work from day 1

[Murph]

So a week ago, I suggested that if I were GM, I'd concentrate on drafting big men in the 2nd round.  And in fact, Weaver took 3 big men in the 2nd round.  I also suggested that Weaver specifically draft Isaiah Livers, which he did.

The other two 2nd rounders are huge big men.  I watched Luka Gara play many times for Iowa.  He was a personal favorite of my son's  We spoke about him often.  We admired his low post offense and his passing ability. And he can certainly shoot.  But we wondered if he would ever have the quickness and athleticism to play defense in today's NBA.  He is a throwback to a bygone era.   Hopefully, he will be useful to the Pistons.

And the other guy is a huge 7'1, 245 lb Serb.  I would have taken Jericho Sims instead.

Hopefully, some or all of those 2nd rounders will stick and develop into useful rotational players.

So the Pistons have three 2nd round picks in this draft, 37, 42 and 52.  And as we have seen in recent years, the Pistons have been able to snag some pretty useful players in the 2nd round.  Bruce Brown and Saban Lee being the prime examples.

So what 2nd rounders should the 'Stones take in this years draft?  If I were GM, I'd concentrate on big men.  I'd take 3 PF/C types.  

Among those big men who might be available in the 2nd round are:

Vrenz Bleijenbergh, PF, 6'9, Belgium (I'm sure he can shoot)
Jericho Sims, PF, 6'10, 245, senior from Texas (gotta love those Longhorns)
Filip Petrusev, C, 6'11, 235, Serbia (ok...maybe not another Serb   )
Isaiah Livers, PF, 6'7, 230, senior from Michigan (if the Pistons took all the Wolverines and Spartans that were available, they'd be way ahead)
Roko Prkacin, PF, 6'9, 210, Croatia (another shooter)
Day'Ron Sharpe, PF, 6'11, 265, freshman from UNC (he's huge and young with the right pedigree)
EJ Onu, PF, 6'11, 240, senior from Shawnee State

Realistically, if I were Weaver,  I'd take Sims, Livers and Sharpe.

Then I'd move Jeremi Grant back to his natural position of SF, until he can be traded for more picks.

[Murph]

See Don...this is exatly what I'm talking about.  IMO, posters should try to make predictive and insightful comments, not hindsighful comments.  

I suggested that Weaver trade Plumlee, and 4 days later he did.

Hopefully, Grant will be next.

If it were me, I’d trade Grant and Plumlee as soon as possible, and get way below 25.5 wins.  Then I’d try to snag a potential star SF in the top 5, in next year’s draft.... someone like Caleb Houstan out of Michigan.


I hated Braden Knight, because Dumars took him over Kemba Walker. All my worst fears were realized.  Knight was an under-achiever who never lived up to expectations... much like Stanley Johnson.

[Oracle]

Isaiah Livers needs no introduction around here, but the dude can hit shots from the parking lot! At 6'7 he should be able to play the SF easily and has the ideal size to fit into the NBA's switchable offenses, but initially, he'll be a nice scorer off the bench.

Luka Garza is part Beef Stew and part Laimbeer. Not blessed with much athleticism, he's a very hard worker and is capable of spacing the floor, but how good a 3 point shooter, I'm not sure, but he does shoot it. He doesn't have great post moves, but he can get the job done down low. He's not the best fit, but he might be effective off the bench.

Obviously Livers is the gem of the 2nd round for us. I know he played a nice amount of PF at Michigan, but I don't expect to see much if any of him there in the pros, even in small ball lineups.

Draft Grades:
A+ for the first round
B+ for the second round

[lemonpen]

Beef Stew was in a walking boot at the Pistons draft party.

[Sparma]

Picking up two future first rounders (including one originating with Detroit) for the #16 pick tonight.

Presti is nothing if not consistent in his strategy. Let's see if it pays off. I think it will (even though most players will want to exit OKC when given a chance).

[Sparma]

about the window, Oracle. The pressure's on now!

This year's still a kind of freebie, but with that pile of money next year, they need to start being pretty good then.

Pressure's a privilege, Djokovic tells us, and I'm happy to have some expectations placed on us again, at long last.

Yes!!

(Relieved).

Not picking Cade Cunningham is a total career ender!

But picking him isn't a career maker, since he is the consensus #1 pick, but it will make you and the organization look good.

The consensus has been wrong on big men a LOT, but less so on front court players.

Left to his own devices Weaver just might have done something crazy, he's fully bought in to his contrarian image, but higher forces will ensure he does the right thing here. I trust him a lot more on the rest of the picks though!

Happy Draft Day Pistons Fans!!!

Bye Mason, I really loved what you brought! I also love Grant, but at this point, he could bring back a huge haul of young talent or picks if moved to a contender!

IMO, we need players that fit the 4 year window of Cade!

[lemonpen]

My wife agreed to go to the Vegas Summer League for our first two games.

DAMN, I love that woman.!!!

[Oracle]

Yes!!

(Relieved).

Not picking Cade Cunningham is a total career ender!

But picking him isn't a career maker, since he is the consensus #1 pick, but it will make you and the organization look good.

The consensus has been wrong on big men a LOT, but less so on front court players.

Left to his own devices Weaver just might have done something crazy, he's fully bought in to his contrarian image, but higher forces will ensure he does the right thing here. I trust him a lot more on the rest of the picks though!

Happy Draft Day Pistons Fans!!!

Bye Mason, I really loved what you brought! I also love Grant, but at this point, he could bring back a huge haul of young talent or picks if moved to a contender!

IMO, we need players that fit the 4 year window of Cade!

[Sparma]

Avery predicting playoffs after Cade, but maybe that 25.5 over/under won't be so far off. Plumlee was a pivot.

Oh well. A high pick next year would be welcome. Off we go!!

Woj reports that the Pistons are trading their #37 AND Plumlee to trade down for the #57 pick of Charlotte.

Definitely not the way I wanted to start this draft evening.  Plumlee was really good last year.  Best PER on the team of the guys who played out the season with this (18.7), easily better than Grant's PER.  Also, as I remember better than Scottie Pippen's career PER.

More to follow, I guess....

Didn't see that coming.   Salary dump I guess.  Hopefully more to come.

[Sparma]

Yes!!

(Relieved).

Not picking Cade Cunningham is a total career ender!

But picking him isn't a career maker, since he is the consensus #1 pick, but it will make you and the organization look good.

The consensus has been wrong on big men a LOT, but less so on front court players.

Left to his own devices Weaver just might have done something crazy, he's fully bought in to his contrarian image, but higher forces will ensure he does the right thing here. I trust him a lot more on the rest of the picks though!

Happy Draft Day Pistons Fans!!!

Bye Mason, I really loved what you brought! I also love Grant, but at this point, he could bring back a huge haul of young talent or picks if moved to a contender!

IMO, we need players that fit the 4 year window of Cade!

[Oracle]

Not picking Cade Cunningham is a total career ender!

But picking him isn't a career maker, since he is the consensus #1 pick, but it will make you and the organization look good.

The consensus has been wrong on big men a LOT, but less so on front court players.

Left to his own devices Weaver just might have done something crazy, he's fully bought in to his contrarian image, but higher forces will ensure he does the right thing here. I trust him a lot more on the rest of the picks though!

Happy Draft Day Pistons Fans!!!

Bye Mason, I really loved what you brought! I also love Grant, but at this point, he could bring back a huge haul of young talent or picks if moved to a contender!

IMO, we need players that fit the 4 year window of Cade!

[lemonpen]

Woj reports that the Pistons are trading their #37 AND Plumlee to trade down for the #57 pick of Charlotte.

Definitely not the way I wanted to start this draft evening.  Plumlee was really good last year.  Best PER on the team of the guys who played out the season with this (18.7), easily better than Grant's PER.  Also, as I remember better than Scottie Pippen's career PER.

More to follow, I guess....

Didn't see that coming. Salary dump I guess. Hopefully more to come.

[Sparma]

Woj reports that the Pistons are trading their #37 AND Plumlee to trade down for the #57 pick of Charlotte.

Definitely not the way I wanted to start this draft evening. Plumlee was really good last year. Best PER on the team of the guys who played out the season with this (18.7), easily better than Grant's PER. Also, as I remember better than Scottie Pippen's career PER.

More to follow, I guess....

[lemonpen]

Presuming Det & Hou pick in order the NBA Summer League scheduler has provided quite a treat.  The Tuesday,  Aug 10, 6pm match-up features pick #1 versus pick #2.
Ya think there may be a little something extra to prove as far as who deserved the top slot?

Set your dvr. (espn)

[Sparma]

I'm guessing that 25.5 over/under won't be on the board long. In fact, I'm guessing it will be gone come Friday.

Good stuff, Lemon, with your bowling. What's your strategy for improvement during the coming year? Weigh training seems to be a difference maker in various sports. Yaz in '67 is the first time I remember talk of extensive and intensive training. I do remember worries being expressed even earlier about Willie Horton being too musclebound.

I couldn't manage something like that now, with back woes and sundry. I have been walking 5 miles a day now that I retired, much of it with my dog.

1st Pick:  
Is Troy really open to trading down.  I suspect he is, but.  I believe the return has to be good enough to essentially provide a "do over" in the event his 2021 selection doesn't become "THE GUY".   In Troy I trust; (gulp).

2022 W/L Record:  
If we do take Cade I'm really tempted to visit a sports book and lay a wager on the over.  25.5  just seems too low.  Doesn't it?  Come on help me out here.    


Core 4:  
Glad to read that they have spent summer in the D working out together.

S. Biles:  
Got a feeling her exit from the Olympics may be a relief.  She didn't seem to be enjoying the moment anymore.

USA Mens B'ball Team:  
R  U very upset by the upsets?  Not me.  Of all of the reasons swirling around my noggin, maybe it's because previous victories seemed too much like fishing with dynamite.  I don't celebrate the L's, I'm just loosing interest.

[lemonpen]

1st Pick:  
Is Troy really open to trading down.  I suspect he is, but.  I believe the return has to be good enough to essentially provide a "do over" in the event his 2021 selection doesn't become "THE GUY".   In Troy I trust; (gulp).

2022 W/L Record:  
If we do take Cade I'm really tempted to visit a sports book and lay a wager on the over.  25.5  just seems too low.  Doesn't it?  Come on help me out here.    


Core 4:  
Glad to read that they have spent summer in the D working out together.

S. Biles:  
Got a feeling her exit from the Olympics may be a relief.  She didn't seem to be enjoying the moment anymore.

USA Mens B'ball Team:  
R  U very upset by the upsets?  Not me.  Of all of the reasons swirling around my noggin, maybe it's because previous victories seemed too much like fishing with dynamite.  I don't celebrate the L's, I'm just loosing interest.

[Murph]

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the 6th pick for Cunningham? Is that a joke?


Lemon...it sounds as if you and the Mrs. got a free trip to Vegas for your efforts. Congratulations!

[lemonpen]

The lane conditions made for tough sledding.   Really short oil pattern length with lots of oil outside of the 8 board.   I threw my share of strikes, but spares ..... wheeeew.  In the words of Maxwell Smart, "He missed it by that much".      Overall, I shot 5 pins under average.  Luckily most folks struggle allowing me to win a bit more $$$ than I spent.    
The next 10 months will be dedicated to building a strategy for 2022.  

[Sparma]

I've been impressed by both Grant and Plumlee, both I'd also trade them if I were GM. I don't see Grant being traded by Weaver though, unless they get off to a really slow start and a second year of tanking (which I would welcome) were initiated.

I remember that you valued Kemba well above Knight from the get go. Interesting to wonder if the Pistons with Kemba would have unfolded much better than Charlotte did during his tenure there (before the move to Boston). Clearly he did end up with the much better NBA career than did Knight. Counterfactuals can be pretty tricky. For instance, I'm not one who is convinced that the going to work Pistons would have won 2 or 3 championships if only they'd drafted Carmelo (I think either Rip or Chauncey asserted that team would have won multiple championship with Carmelo). In that case, it turns out Darko had an abysmal NBA career, while Carmelo would seem to be headed to the HoF.

If it were me, I’d trade Grant and Plumlee as soon as possible, and get way below 25.5 wins.  Then I’d try to snag a potential star SF in the top 5, in next year’s draft.... someone like Caleb Houstan out of Michigan.


I hated Braden Knight, because Dumars took him over Kemba Walker. All my worst fears were realized.  Knight was an under-achiever who never lived up to expectations... much like Stanley Johnson.

[Murph]

If it were me, I’d trade Grant and Plumlee as soon as possible, and get way below 25.5 wins.  Then I’d try to snag a potential star SF in the top 5, in next year’s draft.... someone like Caleb Houstan out of Michigan.


I hated Braden Knight, because Dumars took him over Kemba Walker. All my worst fears were realized.  Knight was an under-achiever who never lived up to expectations... much like Stanley Johnson.

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