More Of The Same...

[Murph]

I've been away for a week on vacation, and have not followed the Pistons, but it looks as if I haven't missed much.

On Jennings...I wrote last December as soon as Jackson went down, that the Pistons should pursue Jennings.

On 12/27/17 I wrote:
"Does anyone know anything about the CBA?  Can those guys get out of their contracts to return to the NBA?

If so, what about Brandon Jennings or Jimmer Fredette.  They are both 28 years old and tearing it up in China.  Also, Darius Adams might be worth a look.

https://basketball.realgm.com/international/league/40/chinese-cba/stats

SVG?"

From 12/29/17
"Yikes!  It wasn't just that we were missing Reggie, it was that everyone who had to adjust to life without Reggie was thrown off their game also.  

Ish had a good game as a starter, but Galloway had his worst game of the season trying to play back-up PG.  In fact, the entire 2nd unit was dreadful.

And Kennard is looking more and more like a spot up jump shooter, which is fine.  But he isn't a PG by any stretch of the imagination.

With Reggie out, we only have one PG on this team.  Unless SVG can pick up another NBA quality PG, our season is going down in a ball of flames.  For all the money he spent, SVG sure put together a poorly constructed roster."


I just don't understand how a complete novice and layman, like myself, can see this stuff clearly, but Stan Van Gundy cannot.  Is SVG that stupid?  Clearly, he is.

[Phil-Good]

I was looking at the 2017 NBA Draft close and I had Kennard ranked Sky high over Mitchell. Mitchell looked like A Rodney Stuckey clone to me.

Utah knows the only way they will ever win anything is to develop their draft picks.

Detroit and Gores think the only way for Detroit to win is to trade for Blake Griffin and give away lottery picks for A Organization that needs lottery picks DESPERTLEY!

Van Gundy does not develop young guys.

Utah does.

Advantage Mitchell. But Luke can play.

[BallinD]

Both Teams Played Hard.  Ball Don't Lie.

As bad as our closeouts are on jumpers, it makes you wonder if SVG's scheme is flawed, does not match the team's talent, of course that would never dissuade SVG from pushing it.  I wonder if we would be better off playing man defense because we are always too late on switches, scrambling all over the court, all because most other teams we play pass the ball more than they dribble it, while we do the opposite (and just wait till Weggie comes back if you wanna see some dribbling...)

Good to have you back, Cool.

Good post on Kennard, BallinD.  I think he could average 15 right now given sufficient opportunity, and that's with muscle tone akin to my own.  We blame SVG for letting Dinwiddie go, and why not, but Spencer bulked up but good after the leaving the Pistons, and it seems to have made a heck of a difference.  If Kennard hits the weights, who knows....  Great shooter, understands the game, but may not have the dynamism to make it big at the highest level. Agreed about the dynamism, but I think shooting and playmaking will have to make do.

Game of his life for Buycks, but how many care?

Great comeback, but....

Great numbers for AD, but still outplayed by Jokic.  Solid games by Griffin and Bullock.  Horrific D for 3 quarters.

I wonder if that game seals SVG's fate.  What a clammy realization it must be for him that Reggie J is his ace, or last card at least, up his sleeve.

Yeah, the pressure is on that's for sure.  If that game doesnt seal his fate, then the next few certainly will.  He's asking himself oh why oh why didn't I trade Weggie when I had a chance.

[Sparma]

Good to have you back, Cool.

Good post on Kennard, BallinD. I think he could average 15 right now given sufficient opportunity, and that's with muscle tone akin to my own. We blame SVG for letting Dinwiddie go, and why not, but Spencer bulked up but good after the leaving the Pistons, and it seems to have made a heck of a difference. If Kennard hits the weights, who knows.... Great shooter, understands the game, but may not have the dynamism to make it big at the highest level.

Game of his life for Buycks, but how many care?

Great comeback, but....

Great numbers for AD, but still outplayed by Jokic. Solid games by Griffin and Bullock. Horrific D for 3 quarters.

I wonder if that game seals SVG's fate. What a clammy realization it must be for him that Reggie J is his ace, or last card at least, up his sleeve.

[cool breeze]

The prime reason is the fact that Tom Gores the man behind the bogus trade for Blake Griffin. If any trade should have taken place before the deadline it would be the trade that should have been made involving Andre Drummond. The Pistons are a dumb team. The overall basketball IQ is off the charts low. That is why most of us cannot identify with the players or the coach. I keep looking at who Stan Van Gundy is coaching. He has only one above average defenders and that guy is Stanley Johnson who is not a high quality offensive player. The problem with Johnson is the fact that he came into the draft without being the best player on his college team. He was at best the 4th best player in his one and only season as a college basketball player. Johnson as always been a very coachable player. So it is clear that the Piston coaching staff including the assistants who work with the 1-2 & 3s must be the worst coaching that SVG could have hired. Here is my official analysis of the team.

Point guards - low basketball IQ stands out for this position. The point guards including Reggie Jackson in his best physical condition are perhaps the worst players at that position in the entire league. That evaluation includes their ability to defend, managing the team on offense, and overall basketball IQ. And SVG and company keep using the excuse that Reggie is the missing piece. We all know better. Reggie Jackson is a 2 guard not a team leader winning type point guard. He is a losing type player who is the worst defender on the entire Piston team. And SVG didn't want any competition at that position because he signed both Jackson and Smith. That is why he didn't draft Mitchell. What an idiot but coaches have egos. The really want the players they sign have some success.

Power forwards - Tolliver played well for half of the season. He is a good player to have on the team. But going forward, where does he fit this team that needs an entire re build? Blake Griffin can fill a role but his prime is in the past. We have him for many years with no possibility of trading him. Henry Ellenson appears to have had zero improvement since he arrived in the draft. Remember the 2nd round pick from Sweden who ripped the Pistons in the Utah game. He was one of the most popular players as a rookie and had a huge fan base. However, the wise coaching staff thought they could do better and gave him away. Didn't fit the coaches needs. How does the power forwards stack up compared with the rest of the league. Average to below average.

Centers - Honesty I prefer to watch Moreland over AD. Please if anyone has ever seen Andre Drummond box out at a critical time in any game or at any time for that matter, please tell me when. AD might be the dumbest player that I have ever witnessed. He is athletically gifted with no basketball mind. He builds up mega stats but he has no idea what it takes mentally to be on a winning basketball team. And this Piston team or any that AD has played on has never had any leader who has a high basketball IQ who could get the best out of AD. AD might be a smart man IQ wise and a good person but he is not a real basketball player. He is a fake player who does what his agent tells him. And neither the owner or the head coach will do the right thing for the organization and trade AD who could bring us some draft picks or a high quality player. The Pistons need a top tier player and that player needs to be a point guard. Trade him before the draft and before he suffers an injury.

Shooting guards - Worst in the NBA. I don't care about the potential of Kennard. He is not a top tier 2 guard by any stretch. But Kennard has the most potential of any player on this team because he has a high basketball IQ. Bullock might be the starter and has shot well beyond the 3 point line but his basketball IQ is low. His overall game is not very good and nobody should believe that he will ever become one of the top 10 2 guards int he league.

Small Forwards - Worst in the NBA. If anybody thinks Ellis will ever be a real starter at any team other than the Pistons, then you are smoking some powerful weed. Johnson has suffered in SVG's system for sure. His jump shot was much better as a freshman in college than it is now. Johnson has no confidence in his offensive game. His time spent beyond the 3 point line on the baseline watching his teammates play on offense has cost him a lot. I blame his lack of development on SVG and his lame coaches and Johnson himself. He says as much when he admits that he is still trying to figure out how he fits the Piston offense. I don't think any member of the team fits the Pistons offense.

Bench - one of the worst benches in the NBA with few young players who might be capable of becoming star players eventually.

Every Piston fan who has been following the Pistons for a long time are sick at heart. I can't believe there is anyone who believes this group of players or the current coaches can ever become really competitive against the current teams who hold playoff positions in either conference. And thanks again Tom Gores for taking away that number on pick in the draft. Now there will be no interest at all in the Pistons over the summer. Nothing to hope for until management can come up with a plan to trade all players who hold big contracts. Phoenix has not done well but they have a ton of first round picks this summer. Imagine how excited their fans will be on draft day. Tom Gores never gave that a thought. He is an owner who needs to stay out of making any basketball decisions relating to trades or draft picks. But he will keep SVG around to keep the blame of of himself. Nobody seems to like SVG. How many of you like his choice of assistant coaches? with all the losing, SVG has not made any changes in his coaching staff. I don't see how any coach could win with this group of players. What is clear is that the young players need coaches who can help make them better. That hasn't happened in fact the young players seem to have regressed since SVG's staff arrived in Detroit.

Is it time to schedule a game between the Pistons and the Grand Rapids Drive? Maybe next year the Pistons could mix in playing some G League teams to get the fans out for the games. Leaving the Palace only meant that tax payers got screwed and the team lost more games than that might have if they had played in the Palace. So back to Detroit is a bogus notion. You need good players to bring out the fans who live in Detroit. They know all about basketball.

[BallinD]

I'm a bit surprised SVG didn't trade Kennard, but am relieved. Why he is so scattershot with his rotations, I'll attribute to his panic-junkie disposition. I think fear and self doubt bedevil the Old Yeller.

From what I have seen, I would say Kennard needs to hit the weights hard. Mitchell seems to be a more chiseled, muscular player and that fits in with his amazing athleticism and confidence. Kennard if he can toughen up and get a coach who knows how to use him, I think he can be a core player if he learns to play with confidence, force and aggressiveness. He will always be a shooter and always be a playmaker, so there is that!

It reminds me of what Rick Carlisle said about why he refused to play Tayshaun in his rookie year; "He needs to learn to play with force" (as if Curry did that, LOL). I think that may be true for Luke, and trying to stay out of SVG's doghouse is already a full-time job, so the self doubt and caution of fearing to screw up along with a bit of rookie wall has hit him. Nonetheless, I believe he can average 20 in this league if he can get his head on straight, I could be wrong. He needs to play with other high-BBIQ players. It is so refreshing to see a real playmaker on our squad. Luke, along with Drums, Blake and Bullock are a good start on the future, I think. We just need that PG; come on lottery balls! Come on NBA! Think what a great story that would be if you can let the lottery balls bounce to the tune of Deeeeeeetroit Basketball!

[Sparma]

Kennard played very well v Utah, maybe our only guy to do so. I think he'll have a long and productive NBA career.

Still....

Mitchell hasn't looked great against us, so I'm going by the press clippings in good measure here. He did hit the miracle 38 footer. More importantly, because more characteristically, he had a beautiful (bounce) pass into the corner once trapped. I just get downhearted when I hear he aced the interview (demonstrating excellent command, memory, and positional sense, I gather), and has a 6'10" wing span (where's Oracle to remind us of the contrast with Luke). Think he one of 5 guys to have scored at least 25 as often as he has as a rook, with all but one of the others in the Hall.

From what I've seen, he's not a superstar, but it seems clear he's a core player. Maybe I'm wrong (hope I am), but I see Kennard more as an excellent supplemental player. SVG complained about his lack of energy, but what I see is more of a guy who needs to play at his top speed, forcing things, to make things happen. His shooting's outstanding, and he'll find a niche somewhere, sometime. The game seems to catch up to Kennard a lot, with a lot of traps and suboptimal positions. It's not just his quickness that worries me, but his strength too. Mitchell seems like someone who can make a lot of things happen while playing at a speed that's comfortable for him.

Rubio and Mitchell as our backcourt?! Dang.

And maybe the Griffin trade wouldn't even have happened if that had been our backcourt, if only due to added spacing concerns.

And maybe the whole KCP fiasco would have gone down differently. I'm guessing we'd be facing a far better cap situation. Oh well, SVG would probably have blown the opportunity anyway.

[Phil-Good]

I been A Pistons fan since I was A baby. This is the least amount of Pistons game I have watch ever!

I'm not interested at all in this team. The last game I looked at from beginning to end was when the Pistons were on the 5 game winning streak. When they lost the next 3 I stop watching.

This Organization and ownership are A disgrace to everything I believe in as A life time Pistons fan right now.

I will make sure I write Tom Gores and let him know how I feel. I hope Gores sale the team to somebody who knows what to do.

STAN VAN GUNDY SHOULD BE FIRED RIGHT NOW! NOT TOMORROW..NOW!



I have to make sure I call WOJO and talk about how poor this Organization is right now!

[BallinD]

Sad sack Pistons mourning the fact that SVG still sits in the coaching seat. "Get him outta here" Griff was heard to whisper to Bullock.  "It's not all that bad," Bullock countered.  "After a couple of years you kinda get over it.  We've learned to tune him out by the 60th game or so, every season."    

@Sparma...interesting matchup with Kennard and Mitch.  Better coach and better team for Mitch means he had no need to break a sweat to get the W.  Kennard led us in minutes and scoring and still did not get the win.  Meh.

[Sparma]

Not a lot of options last night, with Reggie B and Buycks out, not that it would have mattered much had they been healthy given the massive difference in level of play. When Blake got traded here, I thought Galloway might be able to start at PG, but no such luck. To think that Donovan Mitchell essentially plays the role Galloway was supposed to as a combo, but already much better, and without earning 21 mil in 3 years.

I'm all for spacing, but I also wish SVG would have been more willing to mix it up, at least starting last year. Evidently, we could easily have had Rubio and Mitchell. With Don, I love a big PG (although I clearly enjoy Ish more than he does; Ish had two astounding basket to basket makes (but of course they didn't make a difference). Terrific passing by Rubio and by Mitchell yesterday. We could have had our backcourt set for years with those two, with gritty, smart players, who can defend. Ugh.

No spacing, no game plan; no win!  Ish, SJ, in starting Lineup and SVG has no clue!!!!!!!!!  Get Him Outta Here!

Agreed about Jennings, BallinD.  Could have spared ourselves that Jameer Nelson trade.  Blaha actually took a little bit of a dig at the Pistons, which he NEVER does.  They showed some Jennings's highlights for his big game, and Blaha said he spoke to him a couple of weeks ago (!!) and Brandon told him he was back to 100% health, and was just waiting for an opportunity.  Could have been us.

Kennard showed some flashes.  Still, we could have had Mitchell?!

I've resisted what I see as some underestimating of Drummond, but compared to Gobert, his weaknesses come out.  He's got the better numbers (also in PER), but Gobert looks like the better, more effective, player to me.  They mentioned that with Gobert out the team was, like, 4-11, and with him back they're 19-3.  Sincerely doubt Drummond would make that kind of difference (but, wait, Reggie J.'s put up numbers in that direction this year, so who knows).  I still think if he gets to c. 5 All Star games, along with top rebounding numbers, he'll be a strong HoF candidate, but, dang, there's definitely some stats padding going on, and it's seeming doubtful he can lead a contending team (he'd be outstanding in a supplementary role, say in Cleveland).  He's not a great player (yet?) even though he's putting up some great numbers.

Kelser commented on how much firepower Utah's lost since last year, with Hayward, Joe Johnson, and Hood leaving.  Amazing how they've been able to reconstruct on the fly.  No such joy in Motown.

Embarrassing stuff.  Stan talks a great game, but I think we've found out what he can and can't deliver.  Time to go.  And this slide in the West could well get worse, before any turn for the better.

Is it possible he is truly back from the injury?

Good to see the kid back...

[BallinD]

No spacing, no game plan; no win! Ish, SJ, in starting Lineup and SVG has no clue!!!!!!!!! Get Him Outta Here!

Agreed about Jennings, BallinD.  Could have spared ourselves that Jameer Nelson trade.  Blaha actually took a little bit of a dig at the Pistons, which he NEVER does.  They showed some Jennings's highlights for his big game, and Blaha said he spoke to him a couple of weeks ago (!!) and Brandon told him he was back to 100% health, and was just waiting for an opportunity.  Could have been us.

Kennard showed some flashes.  Still, we could have had Mitchell?!

I've resisted what I see as some underestimating of Drummond, but compared to Gobert, his weaknesses come out.  He's got the better numbers (also in PER), but Gobert looks like the better, more effective, player to me.  They mentioned that with Gobert out the team was, like, 4-11, and with him back they're 19-3.  Sincerely doubt Drummond would make that kind of difference (but, wait, Reggie J.'s put up numbers in that direction this year, so who knows).  I still think if he gets to c. 5 All Star games, along with top rebounding numbers, he'll be a strong HoF candidate, but, dang, there's definitely some stats padding going on, and it's seeming doubtful he can lead a contending team (he'd be outstanding in a supplementary role, say in Cleveland).  He's not a great player (yet?) even though he's putting up some great numbers.

Kelser commented on how much firepower Utah's lost since last year, with Hayward, Joe Johnson, and Hood leaving.  Amazing how they've been able to reconstruct on the fly.  No such joy in Motown.

Embarrassing stuff.  Stan talks a great game, but I think we've found out what he can and can't deliver.  Time to go.  And this slide in the West could well get worse, before any turn for the better.

Is it possible he is truly back from the injury?

Good to see the kid back...

[Sparma]

Agreed about Jennings, BallinD. Could have spared ourselves that Jameer Nelson trade. Blaha actually took a little bit of a dig at the Pistons, which he NEVER does. They showed some Jennings's highlights for his big game, and Blaha said he spoke to him a couple of weeks ago (!!) and Brandon told him he was back to 100% health, and was just waiting for an opportunity. Could have been us.

Kennard showed some flashes. Still, we could have had Mitchell?!

I've resisted what I see as some underestimating of Drummond, but compared to Gobert, his weaknesses come out. He's got the better numbers (also in PER), but Gobert looks like the better, more effective, player to me. They mentioned that with Gobert out the team was, like, 4-11, and with him back they're 19-3. Sincerely doubt Drummond would make that kind of difference (but, wait, Reggie J.'s put up numbers in that direction this year, so who knows). I still think if he gets to c. 5 All Star games, along with top rebounding numbers, he'll be a strong HoF candidate, but, dang, there's definitely some stats padding going on, and it's seeming doubtful he can lead a contending team (he'd be outstanding in a supplementary role, say in Cleveland). He's not a great player (yet?) even though he's putting up some great numbers.

Kelser commented on how much firepower Utah's lost since last year, with Hayward, Joe Johnson, and Hood leaving. Amazing how they've been able to reconstruct on the fly. No such joy in Motown.

Embarrassing stuff. Stan talks a great game, but I think we've found out what he can and can't deliver. Time to go. And this slide in the West could well get worse, before any turn for the better.

Is it possible he is truly back from the injury?

Good to see the kid back...

[BallinD]

Is it possible he is truly back from the injury?

Good to see the kid back...

[BallinD]

If it seems the team swooned and tuned SVG out last year down the stretch, I fear how ugly it will be to let SVG play out the string this season and next.  If Gores makes him slowly walk the plank next year, it will be a horrorshow for the players fans and SVG; certainly Gores knows that!

[WTF]

I'm hoping that's just Gores being politically correct but he seems to be an idiot in his own right as well.  His rush to judgement to hire SVG proves he had no clue either about winning.  Still hoping Gores find it in himself to come to the right conclusion and fire SVG.  

It shouldn't be hard for a coach to pinpoint his best 8 or 9 players then devise a plan that suits them.  If we as fans can do it from the sideline so should a coach.  SVG been playing around with this roster since preseason and still couldn't come up with his best 8 or 9 and stick with it.   Every other game yanking players in and out the rotation, starting them one minute and bringing them off the bench the next.   I can see if this was something going on the first 2 weeks of a season but not an entire season.   Every winning coach we had here could identify their top 8 or 9 and roll with them for an entire season some hated Flip for it but he managed 3 ECF trips,  LB did it and managed 2 trips to the finals we knew what 9 players were playing the bulk of minutes every night we didn't have to guess what 5 would start.  Rick managed 2 ECF though he reluctantly gave minutes to Tayshaun we knew who was starting every game so why does SVG find it so hard.   

If Gore keeps SVG I'm likely no longer a fan of this team,  its been far to long since 04 and 05 not to made a final,  it's been too long not having a team consistently in the playoffs.  This is crazy

[Oracle]

The Blake Griffin trade has not pushed the Detroit Pistons into playoff contention. At the time of the trade, the Pistons were in ninth place in the Eastern Conference, four games in the loss column behind the eighth-place Philadelphia 76ers. After a win on Friday, the Pistons are still in ninth place, five games in the loss column behind the eighth-place Milwaukee Bucks.

The Pistons are 7-10 with Griffin, with the league's 24th-ranked offense over that stretch. Their win over the Bulls on Friday was their first win with Griffin in which their opponent wasn't playing the second game of a back-to-back.

Griffin is under contract for four more seasons beyond this one, at more than $35 million per year. And given Griffin's inability to make an immediate impact, the question is whether Stan Van Gundy will remain as Pistons president and/or head coach beyond April.

Team owner Tom Gores addressed the situation on Friday, as Rod Beard writes in the Detroit News:

While the Pistons had struggled, losing 10 of their previous 12 games, and there were rumors swirling about the future of team president and coach Stan Van Gundy, Gores got to watch a 99-83 victory over the Bulls.

Even still, there are concerns and Gores said he has confidence in Van Gundy and isn't going to make any hasty decisions, as they have regular communication about the state of the team.

"Stan and I talk every week and we just want to win -- that's it. That's what we discussed: how we're going to get this team to win. That's been really important to us," Gores said during a halftime impromptu interview session. "We know we've disappointed the fans and we haven't won enough. I can tell you this team works really hard and Stan works hard. He's been here for four years and has dedicated his whole life.

[Oracle]

Why wait, send the message that we need a new coach and a new GM!

Will Gore wuss out and not fire SVG?  Sure smells like it but still hoping he comes to his senses and do the right thing.  With 16 games remaining the order should be giving to play Kennard, Moreland and Ellenson exclusively prime minutes to close out the season while not risking injury to both AD and BG at this stage there's nothing to play for.   

Really I would fire SVG right now because he has nothing to coach for this season so he should shutdown AD and BG but he's not going to.  I wonder how Gore would feel if either AD or BG goes down with a serious injury right now.   Barring injuries or a complete collapse of the teams sitting in the 7th and 8th spots or the Pistons running the table on the remaining 16 (not gonna happen) why not set this up for the next coach staff by giving all the time to those 3 players period win or lose.

[Oracle]

This is going to be hard to take, and I do like a lot of these guys, but taking a real look at this team shows that we're loaded with a lot of bums and unproven players. All of this is SVG's fault of course, but it's amazing how we give away or trade players and wind up with all inferior players.

IMO, we have only 3 players that would be in the rotation of a good team! The rest are lovingly Bums that might get spot minutes or be in the G-League.

[WTF]

Will Gore wuss out and not fire SVG?  Sure smells like it but still hoping he comes to his senses and do the right thing.  With 16 games remaining the order should be giving to play Kennard, Moreland and Ellenson exclusively prime minutes to close out the season while not risking injury to both AD and BG at this stage there's nothing to play for.   

Really I would fire SVG right now because he has nothing to coach for this season so he should shutdown AD and BG but he's not going to.  I wonder how Gore would feel if either AD or BG goes down with a serious injury right now.   Barring injuries or a complete collapse of the teams sitting in the 7th and 8th spots or the Pistons running the table on the remaining 16 (not gonna happen) why not set this up for the next coach staff by giving all the time to those 3 players period win or lose.

[Oracle]

Yes, silly trades have been made, starting with Jodie F**king Meeks, which should have set off alarm bells in Gores head, it did on this board. It sent the message that SVB will over pay for any bum out there for the most ridiculous of reasons.

While we do have player issues, and I'll talk about that in my next post, the fact that the one single constant is staring us in the face,



It's clear he has absolutely

1. No clue about the modern NBA
2. No idea how to use the players he has
3. Can't change a damn thing offensively and more importantly defensively
4. No ability to judge players
5. Can't stand winning, and this is important!

Just look at this dude's career! Every time he does well, it must go to his head, because that's when he starts acting like he's Pop or LB and starts laying into his players.

Miami couldn't stand it, Howard just said screw this clown. When we got to the playoffs after winning 44 games and looking like a team on the rise, boom, bad decision after bad decision.

We get Blake and he says he needs to figure out how best to use him... how's that going for us.

Nothing changes until we change this management... nothing!

[Sparma]

Started watching in the 4th, with the team looking really good. Beautiful cut to the basket by Bullock (as highlighted by Kelser) with three guys in front off him, receiving a pass from Blake once in the clear. Reggie had another really nice finger roll set up by Blake.

Excellent analysis of the trade by Murph. My initial response was to see it as a franchise crippling trade; I still think it's likely to turn out that way, but I've tried to be optimistic for the short run, which hasn't been easy.

Among other things, I think that Harris is straight up the better dollar for dollar value.

Trying to look on the other side, the defense (at least at the time) might have gone something like this:

--Bradley's either leaving for nothing at the end of the year, or we're going to need to overpay him to keep him. He's been disappointing; let's move him as a contract.

--We signed Boban when back up centers had a strong market (Langlois contends). Yes, he can be a weapon, but he's vulnerable defensively. We like Moreland about as much. Why not move his overly high contract.

--Griffin's better than Harris. Yes, Griffin's got a risky contract, but Harris only has one year left. It's so hard to bring a star to the D long term; of course, let's going to come with some risk. Then he either leaves or we need to pay a ton. Harris started the year like an All Star, but he's slipped some. He benefited early from our motion O, but he's got trouble creating his own shot, something Griffin can do consistently. Griffin's a natural PF; Harris doesn't quite have a position: he wants to play O against smaller guys (SFs), but on D, he's got trouble both with the quick SFs and the big PFs. Griffin's 3 years older, with a lot of wear, but he showed last year with the Clippers that he can make an effective adjustment to diminished athleticism.

Blake may not play like a superstar anymore, but he's still got superstar name recognition. Maybe bringing him will help even more than adding seat covers.

We're getting a couple of supplementary players, that we believe can be turned around (maybe adding some draft incentive) for guys who fit our current needs better.

We don't want to give up a 1st rounder, but we're protected if we luck into a super high pick. Besides, with Griffin added, there's a good chance we'll make the playoffs. A 15th or 16th pick is rarely a franchise changer.

[Comment: the calculation concerning the draft pick's already gone haywire. Looks like we're giving up a lottery pick in a strong draft class. Also, even though the trade for Jameer Nelson was for an accused felon and a possible 2nd round flip way in the future (about as low a bid as you can make), that's already looking like a bad trade.]

[WTF]

True Murph all the team needed was a competent PG and perhaps a backup PF and they would have been okay IMO.  Moving Bradley was something they needed to do but it wasn't something that really had to be done.  I think the trade was stupid as well.

I don't think there's a fix for the roster now other than swapping out scrubs and role players but they could do better with another coach.  I know its a long shot but I'm hoping on a wing and a prayer that we land a Top 3 pick so we can keep our 1st and that SVG is fired as soon as we secure that pick.  I don't get too upset about the season because I predicted 39 wins and no playoff berth before the season but it still annoys me watching how SVG handles the this team as coach and prez.  

Sadly they might not even make it the 39 wins either.

[Murph]

Tobias Harris was never the problem.   He was only 25, about Drummond's age, so he could have matured with Drummond.  He was on a reasonable contract.   He was a complimentary player in that he didn't have to have the ball in his hands all the time, like Griffin does.   And he was good (there wasn't a single poster on this forum who didn't like him as a player).  There was no reason to trade Harris.

What we needed was a PG, with NBA experience (along with more shooters).  For some reason, SVG only went into the season with two experienced NBA PGs on the roster, Reggie Jackson, who had missed most of the previous season with a bad knee, and Ish.  When Jackson went down again, SVG should have acquired the best PG available, without giving up Harris or our 1st round pick.

There were rumors that Walker was on the trading block.  I advocated for acquiring Walker.  Don wanted George Hill.  He would have been fine also.  But for some unexplainable reason, SVG never acquired that PG, and acquired Blake Griffin instead.

We never needed Griffin.  We had Harris.  And Griffin is 4 years older than Harris, past his prime, injury prone, and he literally has the single worst contract in the NBA. And he needs to play in the paint, when we already had Drummond, who also needs to play in the paint.  And he has to have the ball in his hands most of the time.  

And we had to throw in our 1st round pick, that could have been used to acquire a premier PG of the future. And to this day we still don't have a 2nd experienced PG on the roster.



So to reiterate all the things that were wrong with the trade:

1.  We needed another PG after Jackson's injury, and still don't have one.
2.  Harris was young, good and had a reasonable contract.
3.  Griffin is old, past his prime and has the worst contract in the NBA.
4.  Harris is a complimentary player, while Griffin has to be the focus of the offense.
5.  Griffin and Drummond get in each other's way in the paint.
6.  We lost our 1st round pick that we could have used to acquire a premier PG of the future, in a draft that is PG heavy.

These points were so obvious, even at the time, that it makes me wonder what Pistons management was smoking.  The trade was so stupid, that it seems impossible that SVG could have made the trade.  Only a complete novice like Gores or Tellem could have made a trade like that.

My head still hurts every time I think about it.  I can't even turn on a Pistons game and watch for 2 minutes without my blood boiling.  

[BallinD]

SVG, the media, Gores et al. are all stupid. So what. The reality goes beyond the blame game. The reality goes beyond next season and certainly goes beyond this season. It will be an interesting run. I have no answers.

If we keep Dre and Blake and Weggie, then we will need one more shooter to go with Bullock and Ennis. We should get another P&R pg and ship Ish out (I love him. but not the best fit). Not gonna move the needle. Do we keep SJ? First World Problems.

[WTF]

Anyone could conclude that the Blake pick up would better for the team next season for a full season then trying to squeeze success into 30 remaining games but even that not guaranteed.  But this trade wasn't made for the reason of next year because it was made out of desperation to pacify a situation that this team and coach was underachieving.   They needed to dump Bradley and couldn't do it without including Harris, I can't help but think this team would be a lot better or the same if Harris was still here and not Blake.

Big risk to tanking without a 1st round pick firmly in hand or real financial room to make a meaningful move when pieces are still required.  If there was ever a player to like walk away for nothing at the end of the season Bradly was that player.  I think SVG feared that considering how he failed to move Moose, KCP and Smith without getting any return.   This trade was because SVG feared not making the playoffs this season and that's why it was made,  still there's no guaranteed a playoff birth is promised next season either especially if SVG is still pulling the coaching strings.

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