Incredible win

[Sparma]

Incredible because the Warriors shot very well, because the Pistons were down 14 deep into the game, and because it's a back to back on the road against one of the greatest teams ever. It may indeed be time to believe.

The Warriors announcers kept bemoaning all of the turnovers. Pistons' D was the key to the game, combined with Warrior sloppiness. Lots of swarming D, good anticipation, e.g., by Tolliver. Both Reggie J. and Ish played real well. Lots of good games, including by Stanley J. and Bradley. AD worked very hard on the boards. Excellent team win. SVG even flashed a genuine smile at the end.

[WTF]

It may be time to start believing... Pistons rip the champs heart out!

These guys are looking for real!!!

LMAO!!! For one day they have the best record in the conference    I'm still not sold even though they popped the Warriors I couldn't be convinced they could do it 4 out of 7 times.   20 games rule still in effect 

[WTF]

Can win, Caldwell starting to look like he doesn't know what his doing.

[Oracle]

It may be time to start believing... Pistons rip the champs heart out!

These guys are looking for real!!!

[WTF]

Theirs for the taking.......this would be a more impressive win than last night.

[WTF]

You ever heard the saying just because everyone else does don't make it right.  I can not be sold on the number of attempts even if it's less than the league average.  This attitude of settling on being less than exceptional has to stop, lowering the bar has to stop,  doing what everyone does doesn't make it right it's actually downright sad that you don't want to be the best at what your doing.  I find no solace in knowing our team is just as stupid as the rest of the league.   This attitude doesn't reflect what we come to know as PISTONS DNA.

I agree WTF, to a certain degree, but I'm not sure where we need to go to mine for field goals.  I believe we were at or near the top in the league in 2pt shooting, 45% puts us in 11th place, but near the bottom in 3% and also in FT attempts.  IMHO, that is an area we need to step up a bit.  Can we get to the line?  With Weggie and Dre we should be able to, and Tobias drives it a ton, but gets few calls.  

"That is Pistons DNA, right? There is no way to get more FT attempts, or is there?"

1. They can be better in transition for easier basket, 2. they need to attack the basket more to increase FT attempts, 3. they simply just need to shorten up that shot some (often).  

Just doing these things almost improve every other aspect of the game for them.

[BallinD]

You ever heard the saying just because everyone else does don't make it right.  I can not be sold on the number of attempts even if it's less than the league average.  This attitude of settling on being less than exceptional has to stop, lowering the bar has to stop,  doing what everyone does doesn't make it right it's actually downright sad that you don't want to be the best at what your doing.  I find no solace in knowing our team is just as stupid as the rest of the league.   This attitude doesn't reflect what we come to know as PISTONS DNA.

I agree WTF, to a certain degree, but I'm not sure where we need to go to mine for field goals. I believe we were at or near the top in the league in 2pt shooting, 45% puts us in 11th place, but near the bottom in 3% and also in FT attempts. IMHO, that is an area we need to step up a bit. Can we get to the line? With Weggie and Dre we should be able to, and Tobias drives it a ton, but gets few calls.

"That is Pistons DNA, right? There is no way to get more FT attempts, or is there?"

[WTF]

So I kinda disagree with those who complain we shoot too many threes as we are well below the league average in attempts and makes and have players who have shot it well over their careers.

Also, we are shooting it with roughly the same consistency we have during the SVG era, in the 33% range.

Detroit 3Pt success rate                          33.9% in 2017 33.0% in 2016 A slight tick up

Detroit 3Pt attempt rate % of shots           31.7% in 2017 26.3% in 2016, a more substantial tick up in attempts

So what is really wrong with our 3Pt shooting?

Though on the surface it appears we see shooters 3Pt% decline here.  A more thorough analysis would have to validate this.


b]Is this the curse of Detroit?[/b]  Is this where good shooters go to die:

Avery Bradley    .391 last season to .381 this season...where's the beef?
Anthony Tolliver .391 last season to .278 this season...the curse of the Tolliver Effect?
Ersan Illyasova   .365 career vs .363 as a Piston
Jodie Meeks       .376 career vs .401 the year before becoming a Piston. Then he slumped to .349 in 60 games, then rebounded to .444 in 3 games the last injury-plagued season he was a Piston, in 2015-16.  
Gigi Datome...nuff said
Freaking Charlie Villaneueva...nuff said

Langston Galloway...Guess what? he is the exception, going from .370 to .524  Bucks the trend/needs more shots

You ever heard the saying just because everyone else does don't make it right.  I can not be sold on the number of attempts even if it's less than the league average.  This attitude of settling on being less than exceptional has to stop, lowering the bar has to stop,  doing what everyone does doesn't make it right it's actually downright sad that you don't want to be the best at what your doing.  I find no solace in knowing our team is just as stupid as the rest of the league.   This attitude doesn't reflect what we come to know as PISTONS DNA.

[BallinD]

So I kinda disagree with those who complain we shoot too many threes as we are well below the league average in attempts and makes and have players who have shot it well over their careers.

Also, we are shooting it with roughly the same consistency we have during the SVG era, in the 33% range.

Detroit 3Pt success rate                          33.9% in 2017 33.0% in 2016 A slight tick up

Detroit 3Pt attempt rate % of shots           31.7% in 2017 26.3% in 2016, a more substantial tick up in attempts

So what is really wrong with our 3Pt shooting?

Though on the surface it appears we see shooters 3Pt% decline here.  A more thorough analysis would have to validate this.


b]Is this the curse of Detroit?[/b]  Is this where good shooters go to die:

Avery Bradley    .391 last season to .381 this season...where's the beef?
Anthony Tolliver .391 last season to .278 this season...the curse of the Tolliver Effect?
Ersan Illyasova   .365 career vs .363 as a Piston
Jodie Meeks       .376 career vs .401 the year before becoming a Piston. Then he slumped to .349 in 60 games, then rebounded to .444 in 3 games the last injury-plagued season he was a Piston, in 2015-16.  
Gigi Datome...nuff said
Freaking Charlie Villaneueva...nuff said

Langston Galloway...Guess what? he is the exception, going from .370 to .524  Bucks the trend/needs more shots

[WTF]

Great win last night, but Wise, you make a very good point.  I think we would all agree that both SJ and Tolliver are in the rotation for their defense.  In fact, if they didn't play good defense, they probably wouldn't play at all.  With that in mind, why does Tolliver take six 3 point shots a game, when he's only shooting 28% from 3 point land?  And why does SJ take almost four 3 point shots a game, when he's only shooting 23% on 3 pointers?

If just Tolliver and Johnson stopped taking 3's, our 3 point attempts per game would fall to a reasonable level, and our 3 point shooting percentage would rise considerably.

Ish Smith is another Pistons who should never take a 3 point shot.

Murph 3's are one of my biggest issue with this team right now followed by the turnover from our guard position.   Yes if those three players were to never take another 3 I would be happy and the team would be a lot better for it.   At best we should be around 10-15 attempts a game but I would happy if they all came in situational moments and not as freely as SVG allows.

Need a 3 to gain a lead or tie in a clutch moment fine shoot a 3 three, clock running out its the only option left shoot the 3's or if its a wide open look by designed to a capable shooter great.  To shot at this Fire At Will pace is just plan stupid and the dumbest thing I've seen is shooting them when you have the lead and should be controlling the pace of the game.

[Murph]

Great win last night, but Wise, you make a very good point.  I think we would all agree that both SJ and Tolliver are in the rotation for their defense.  In fact, if they didn't play good defense, they probably wouldn't play at all.  With that in mind, why does Tolliver take six 3 point shots a game, when he's only shooting 28% from 3 point land?  And why does SJ take almost four 3 point shots a game, when he's only shooting 23% on 3 pointers?

If just Tolliver and Johnson stopped taking 3's, our 3 point attempts per game would fall to a reasonable level, and our 3 point shooting percentage would rise considerably.

Ish Smith is another Pistons who should never take a 3 point shot.

[WTF]

It was a throw back game, the kind I thought you would celebrate, Wise. The team beat an undefeated team on the road by playing tough D, by playing unselfish O, and by digging deep for the resiliency and toughness needed to come back, three times over by my count. 

It hard for me to get pass the horrid shooting from deep because collectively it sucks even though one or two individuals my have exception games.  I really hate seeing Tolliver tossing up shots from deep as he does and seeing stat lines 1 for 7, 0 for 9 and all the attempts are from deep. 

This offensive thinking of SVG doesn't speak next level and its hard to have confidence in it.  They do seem to be sharing and moving the ball more but I think the bad shooting negates that and any good defense we might be playing.  

I can only imagine with good ball movement, playing good defense in that game last night that with addition of better shot selection and shortening those shots up that the margin of victory would have been greater and the win made more easily.  It's like every 3 attempt ends up as a failed attempt to put a dagger in the opposition.   

I still see SVG  offensive scheme as somewhat lazy because we're taking 30 attempts a game.  IMO the bulk of our shot attempts need to be at the basket closely followed by the number of mid range attempts.

[Sparma]

Even though I'm given to pessimism (see below), I do think beating the Clips was heartening, in part precisely because they shot badly for the game.

It was a throw back game, the kind I thought you would celebrate, Wise. The team beat an undefeated team on the road by playing tough D, by playing unselfish O, and by digging deep for the resiliency and toughness needed to come back, three times over by my count.

A lot of times, the team will win or lose depending on whether or not their jumpers are falling. That can be a successful formula if you're a really good shooting team. But we're not, so that kind of dependence is a recipe for mediocrity for us.

Last night's performance reminds me of a pitcher who doesn't have his good stuff, but is still able to win. They say winning on a night like that is the mark of good pitchers.

No doubt, our shooting needs to improve.

But note also that even though the shooting stats weren't good on the whole, we wouldn't have won with a couple of clutch 3 pointers by Tobias and Langston's sizzling 4th quarter shooting from distance.

Galloway can't keep up this 3 point pace, but even a slightly cooled down version might make for the most successful 3 point shooter we've seen in a long time.

My worry, my glass half full moment, comes from realizing that Stan's reliance on journeymen like Tolliver and Galloway may very well be successful in the short run, but not to the point of meaningful success like getting to a conference finals. And depending on the vets makes it really hard for the youngsters to get the time they need. And this type of roster design doesn't lead to outstanding long term results, but actually blocks them.

But last night has got to be just the kind of team win Stan was hoping for in crafting the roster like this.

Good Win ???? perhaps but I just can't seem to come to terms with the horrible shooting from deep.  Certainly not happy that Kennard was kicked out of the rotation last night.

That shooting is going to be the death of this team

[WTF]

Good Win ???? perhaps but I just can't seem to come to terms with the horrible shooting from deep.  Certainly not happy that Kennard was kicked out of the rotation last night.

That shooting is going to be the death of this team

[Sparma]

Started watching a bit before halftime. Clippers built a lead of ten. Coming out of halftime, the Pistons nearly caught up, but then the Clips built the lead back up to ten, and it seemed over, but no, the Pistons just overplayed the Clips from that point on.

The Pistons played tough on D, getting a bunch of turnovers. On O, the Clips' announcers commented on the Pistons' ball movement (and, conversely, the Clips' failure to move the ball).

Drummond played like an All-Star. Galloway was killer in the 4th quarter with his outside shooting. He kept being wide open, which resulted partly a lack of respect/ lack of energy by the Clips, partly from his ability to move. His box score at the end didn't look great, but it wasn't surprising that he was named "Mercury Insurance Player of the Game." Same kind of deal with Tolliver, whose stats didn't look great, but who did a very nice job of slowing down Griffin. Good game by Reggie too. Other looked good too, including Stanley J. and Tobias. Great time effort, impressive comeback.

The roster design's not my cup of tea, but maybe they really have something this season? Guess we'll know more tomorrow!

[Oracle]

I'm sleepy, but this is the kind of win that could set us on a very good trajectory!

Team effort, and good clock and game management down the stretch.

Not perfect, but a good start!

[BallinD]

From Today's Freep: Stan and Weggie yelling at each other about the plays. "The Timberwolves were repeatedly running pick-and-rolls for point guard Jeff Teague, but the Pistons are implementing an offense that features more player and ball movement. "Oh are they now?  Well lookee here.  SVG trying something different.  I love it!

Jackson wanted the opportunity to go back at Teague: "Coach, lemme go play HeroBall!!!"

“The NBA mentality is, ‘I want to go back at him,'” Van Gundy said. “I want to make him work,’ and we’re not really playing that way. We’re going to come down and play movement and your opportunities are going to come in the flow and the whole thing and that can be a tough thing for guys. Loving it...SVG gonna change the Pistons culture.  The voice of reason. He has emphasized motion and screening and more players in the rotation.

“You’ll get opportunities out of that, but it’s not a go-back at him mentality that guys favor in those situations.”

Go Pistons! Clip the Clippers!

[deusXango]

"Galloway’s chemistry with Ish Smith and vital floor spacing has been crucial to Detroit’s second unit so far. Galloway has recorded an impressive +/- of +39, showing his value to the team when he steps onto the court.

With more minutes for Galloway, we could see exciting three guard lineups including Reggie Jackson, Avery Bradley and Galloway. This would allow Van Gundy more versatility and unpredictability that would help Detroit score more points."-Nikolas Boehm, Fansided: Piston Powered

cough, cough! Excuse me. Didn't I just read that there was already phenomenal chemistry between Galloway and Smith? Am I crazy or would it make more sense to play Smith, Galloway, and Bullock together? They're all bench, rotation players, and our bench seems to be evolving into something very special, plus SVG himself has stated that the team plays better when Bullock is on the floor.

I couldn't resist sticking my head in, but I'll be back, full of fire, with my predictions and views after the West Coast swing.

[lemonpen]

I enjoyed the opening game so much that I took the plunge.  Bought a 10 game package in a nose bleed section.  Just as we reached our section the usher asked if we wanted to sit in the lower bowl.


I fully expected a loss but wound up pleasantly surprised with the Stones and somewhat disappointed with Minny.
It looks like Harris may have the stuff to carry this team.  I credit Ish for knowing how to ride a hot man.  

For all of the names Minny seemed disorganized.  Wiggins is terrible, WCS seemed infatuated with the trey, and Crawford looks old.  

Again, I give Ellenson the edge over Leuer. On both ends.

How much did the tickets cost Lemonpen? I see there is a huge screen. Do you watch the floor or the screen most of the time? Maybe you can creep down closer to the action. The Wolves had played 3 games close together so I am sure the next game with them won't be easy for the Pistons. I was wondering what you thought of Jeff Teague compared to Reggie. I Always liked him and thought he embarrassed Reggie a bit in the first quarter. Maybe he ran out of gas in the 2nd half or was it Reggie's defense? It is very difficult to get the whole perspective watching television. Even in the nose bleed section you can see the whole floor and watch individual players more. I enjoy your reports.

Congradulations to Spencer Dinwiddie for beating up on Labron making the key shot in the game. I never got tired of watching Spencer play basketball in college at Colorado or the Pistons. Looks like he will get another opportunity again this season. I still believe in Spencer and his high IQ basketball mind. He would make a great coach someday.

Tix are $28 / seat. A pair for me and the Mrs makes for a fun time once or twice a month. The big screen is ultra bright and crystal clear; never seen anything like it. I tend to watch live action for the wide field of view, and replays on the overhead. It seems like the live crowd gets more replays than on the tele.

Going in I didn't realize the T-Wolves played the night before nor did I know Butler would be sidelined.

I think Teague could be a top 5 PG. He has ALL of the offensive skills and is gritty enough on D. BUT, he is too passive. He has the skills of Zeke but falls way short in the leadership category. If Jeff were more of a kick-ass type of personality he and George would have carried the Pacers further in last years playoffs. Regardless, I rate Teague well above Reggie.

[cool breeze]

I enjoyed the opening game so much that I took the plunge.  Bought a 10 game package in a nose bleed section.  Just as we reached our section the usher asked if we wanted to sit in the lower bowl.


I fully expected a loss but wound up pleasantly surprised with the Stones and somewhat disappointed with Minny.
It looks like Harris may have the stuff to carry this team.  I credit Ish for knowing how to ride a hot man.  

For all of the names Minny seemed disorganized.  Wiggins is terrible, WCS seemed infatuated with the trey, and Crawford looks old.  

Again, I give Ellenson the edge over Leuer. On both ends.

How much did the tickets cost Lemonpen? I see there is a huge screen. Do you watch the floor or the screen most of the time? Maybe you can creep down closer to the action. The Wolves had played 3 games close together so I am sure the next game with them won't be easy for the Pistons. I was wondering what you thought of Jeff Teague compared to Reggie. I Always liked him and thought he embarrassed Reggie a bit in the first quarter. Maybe he ran out of gas in the 2nd half or was it Reggie's defense? It is very difficult to get the whole perspective watching television. Even in the nose bleed section you can see the whole floor and watch individual players more. I enjoy your reports.

Congradulations to Spencer Dinwiddie for beating up on Labron making the key shot in the game. I never got tired of watching Spencer play basketball in college at Colorado or the Pistons. Looks like he will get another opportunity again this season. I still believe in Spencer and his high IQ basketball mind. He would make a great coach someday.

[lemonpen]

I enjoyed the opening game so much that I took the plunge. Bought a 10 game package in a nose bleed section. Just as we reached our section the usher asked if we wanted to sit in the lower bowl.


I fully expected a loss but wound up pleasantly surprised with the Stones and somewhat disappointed with Minny.
It looks like Harris may have the stuff to carry this team. I credit Ish for knowing how to ride a hot man.

For all of the names Minny seemed disorganized. Wiggins is terrible, WCS seemed infatuated with the trey, and Crawford looks old.

Again, I give Ellenson the edge over Leuer. On both ends.

[Oracle]

It's easy in the midst of all the negative things going on to miss the fantastic news happening right in front of our faces.

What you pointed out is something so earth shaking that I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned more here or in the media.

What Drummond is doing with his FT shooting is truly miraculous as you stated. I've noticed his shooting percentage going up as well, but what it shows is the hard work he's put in and the dedication he's shown to getting better.

This is truly a great story line for this team.

I'm not sure if 5 games is a big enough sample size (I tend to think it is), but through 5 games, Drummond looks like the new and improved version.  His energy is way up. He's in much better shape. He looks more aggressive on the floor.  His defense has improved considerably.  Even against Embiid, Drummond forced 7 TOs.  He's taking fewer shots, but hitting them at a higher rate.  His FG% is up.  His offensive rebounds are up.  And his assists are up.

And his free throw shooting is miraculous.  I doubt if any player has ever improved his free throw shooting this much from one year to the next, in the history of the NBA.

[Murph]

I'm not sure if 5 games is a big enough sample size (I tend to think it is), but through 5 games, Drummond looks like the new and improved version. His energy is way up. He's in much better shape. He looks more aggressive on the floor. His defense has improved considerably. Even against Embiid, Drummond forced 7 TOs. He's taking fewer shots, but hitting them at a higher rate. His FG% is up. His offensive rebounds are up. And his assists are up.

And his free throw shooting is miraculous. I doubt if any player has ever improved his free throw shooting this much from one year to the next, in the history of the NBA.

[Murph]

"AD’s playing with energy in the first half against Minny. Second fastest ever (after Howard) to 5000 bounds!"

Sparma....yes, I caught that stat also.  And let's not forget Dwight Howard is headed for Springfield, MA, 5 years after he retires.

That's why I keep saying Drummond is headed for the Hall of Fame also.  Drummond rebounds at a rate that is historical.  If he stays healthy, he will end up with more than 15,000 career rebounds, which will put him 7th behind Chamberlain, Russell, Jabbar, Hayes, Moses Malone and Duncan....pretty exclusive company.

[BallinD]

SVG went 11 deep into his roster in this game. He and Dre are waking up? No Jimmy Butler...no problem!

Plus Dre was pissed and getting ORB's. Tobias continues to show out and stake his own claim to being our best player as Isaiah Thomas said last year, though many forgot. If his usage continues to be high, and SVG continues to use him as our go-to-guy, we might want to keep him around to complement the next star we get in here.

Ish had 13 assists and only 2 pts. Weggie had 10 pts and 4 assists. We don't need the PGs to score for us to win!

[Sponsored content]