Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

It could be worse. The Chicago Bulls got less than expected for Jimmy Butler, then sold (!) a 2nd round pick. Not much joy in Chitown today.

What's wrong with this picture: GS bought a 2nd round pick, but we did not, being told in advance by the GM how unlikely that was given the depth of our roster.

In the next breath, as I remember, he spoke of how deep this draft class is that the undrafted group would be of special interest. That's next, I guess, hearing about how an undrafted signee could make an extraordinary contribution. Maybe so, and bring that signee on, but, again, halfway measures tend to bring tepid results.

My post above reveals why the Chicago Brass are rebuilding. that team is not satisfied with making the 8th playoff spot like our Piston management team that must feel they need to get that spot next season or they will be fired. Chicago got a young point guard but he was not one of my favorite players before he was drafted last season. But he has good size and could end up being an effective offensive player and defender. And they got the Big Fin power forward who is actually a much better defender than has been described. This guy flat out shot the ball extremely well against pressure last season from many spots on the floor. He is a shot maker who is 7 foot tall with a really high basketball IQ, He was a good teammate with a great personality and he loves practicing and hanging out in the gym working on his game. Chicago got a diamond. The Bulls fans will enjoy the rebuilding process not hate it. We Piston fans never get to experience a true rebuild with management that has the guts to do it the right way. Chicago will do it the right way. Listening to their GM in NBA TV was so refreshing after hearing what comes out of our Stan Van Gundy's mouth as he pencils in Morris as the starting small forward and sends Ellenson down to the minor league after Leuer shoots zero for twelve the previous night. We watch a middle of the road team with bad team chemistry and nothing is done by management this summer? It is actually shocking but Piston contracts do not match performance so very little can be done and that might be the way things work in Piston land for the next 3 years.

[cool breeze]

Stagnation is the correct word for the Detroit Piston franchise now in this period of darkness. Finding out that the Golden State Warriors bought a 2nd round pick for 3.2 million and got one of my favorite high energy hard nose players in Jordan Bell, it should make every Piston fan want to throw in the towel.

The above story is just one of the creative moves made by teams with executives that have the necessary vision to make their teams better. Does Piston management really believe that they have the players at every position who can win? I see none. We have no superior or above average player at any position on this post draft day.

My prediction is that if no moves are made, this Detroit team will flounder around much like last season maybe showing some wins early in the season by beating teams like Chicago and Philly who are in the building process. Then after the Christmas holidays as the younger more talented players on the other teams figure things out and our players start getting soft, the same thing will happen. The downward spiral will reappear in the hard winter months where the motivated players who truly love improving and playing the game will start to excel and the rest will lose interest and play with less energy. we have watched this happen now for a decade with one blimp where a supreme effort by Reggie Jackson got us into the playoffs two years ago.

Watching some of NBA TV today and listening to the GM for Chicago it is clear that they have a GM with vision. It was difficult to part with Jimmy Butler but where was the team headed? Did they have the players who could win the championship? This is a team that beat out the Pistons last season and if they brought back Butler and the rest of the crew most likely they would beat out Detroit again. Chicago is rebuilding completely now as they will shortly shed contracts with Wade and Rondo. Their young new players will not be spending the year in the minor league like SVG does with our young players. Stan will just keep plugging Morris into the starting lineup regardless of wins and loses. Chicago rookies will be thrown into the fire and it might not look pretty. However, next season and the season after that Bulls fans will be excited and hopeful again. and it is fun for fans to watch the rookies and 2nd year players grow. Where will Piston fans be? Detroit management never has the vision or the guts to make a complete rebuild. They play for the 8th playoff spot, therefore, using smoke and mirrors to sucker the Michigan population to have some interest and buy tickets. In my opinion people in Michigan love basketball more than any sport. They know basketball and hate watching crappy players as much or more than they do watching the Lions for so many down years.

What would make anyone think that things will be different next season for the Pistons with this roster? Who is going to become a superior player? You need three at least to become a good team.

MORRIS:In my opinion Morris is playing at the top of his game.

HARRIS might be playing at the top of his game.Our point guards suck so badly that I am not sure what his potential might be.

SMITH for sure is playing at the top of his game. And his game is not good enough for him to ever be a starter but right now he is better than Jackson who is the only other option.

BAYNES is now gone and he did provide good effort but most likely played at his top level last season.

KCP was in his contract season so we have to believe he played at the top of his game with effort and he was very average. You can point to the shoulder injury but Pope's floor game is far from superior excluding his inept driving ability, lack of good court vision IQ and lack of a mid range game.

LEUER our free agent savior who has an impossible contract to move based on his play last season? Maybe he has some ability to improve but how much can he improve? Has Leuer ever been the key player on any team?

JACKSON was horrible last season and clearly not the same player he was before his injury. At his best though can he defend anyone in the league? He could if he wanted to but his effort on defense is pitiful. Every GM in the league knows it so he is our point guard by default as Piston management will give playing time based on contracts again. We have to hope that Jackson can get back some of his offensive mojo at least. Does Jackson have the potential to become an elite guard in the NBA? You have to have elite guards in the NBA today to win much of anything.

STANLEY JOHNSON just doesn't fit the AAU style of play this coaching staff seems to embrace. I wouldn't either. Detroit plays mindless basketball where team work is an after thought. There is no screening, no player movement without the basketball, no sharing of the basketball, and of course the back breaker habit of only playing one side of the basketball court always gets a team in big trouble. This seems OK with the Piston coaching staff who all must be on strong medication to even watch Piston games. Johnson will not reach his full potential playing with players on this current roster for sure. Forget his shooting percentage, Johnson's spirit was broken last season, He is not the same player I have known for such a long time. But Johnson has overcome disappointment before so I will not count him out yet.

HILLIARD might be another player SVG is banking on to turn things around next year. Are you kidding me? I like Hilliard because he plays hard and is not a dumb player at all. But Hilliard like Johnson do not fit the style this team likes to play. The Pistons offensive game is designed for the retarded. Paul Pierce would struggle in this system playing with Detroit's key players when he was in his prime. Isiah Thomas would demand to be traded under this current system if he had to play with the core leaders SVG has selected if Zeke had just been drafted. The great played will not tolerate players like Andre Drummond. There was good reason why Andre did not make the Olympic team. And it wan't because Andre was so young. He is not young by NBA standards.

BOBAN is tall and he can position himself in the paint to score and make good passes. In my opinion he is a better player and smarter player than Drummond and more driven to get better. But Boban cannot run the court fast enough to beat his assigned man to the paint on defense. That is his weakness. I am not convinced he will ever be able to do it but would like to see him get the chance.

LUKE KENNARD can shoot the ball extremely well and has a high basketball IQ. He has a lot of scoring records in his home state as a high school player and was the glue of the Duke team. But with that great shooting stroke, will he be standing beyond the 3 point line on the baseline like Pope and Johnson did so much. Will he fail to touch the basketball for a complete quarter of play like Johnson did most of the time last season? How can a strong shooter be successful with ball dominate point guards making all of the basketball decisions? Kennard will need to become an elite defender as well as his point guards are both a liability for the Pistons on defense.

DRUMMOND has become much worse in effort and attitude this past season and every announcer in the league who were involved in broadcasting Piston games would agree with me despite some fans who where rose colored glasses. Drummond actually flaunts his lazy nature actually saying to the public that all this team needs is more rest over the summer months while players like Labron James work out for 6 or more hours a day. No I have not had time to work on my free throw shooting this summer was his public response when a reporter asked him if he had spent any time working on his free throw shooting over a month after Andre had nose surgery. Was there any improvement in effort when SVG called out Drummond for his failure to be "engaged". SVG insinuated that Andre's mind and body were elsewhere during actual regular season games. Think for a minute. How long would you last in your job if your boss accused you of this habit? Who does that? Who in hell can support him? I am amazed that some posters bitch me out for making statements that have been made public or can be witnessed in actual games. He is young is that the excuse for not caring or not playing as hard as you can or having no interest in improving, or not being interested in providing the role the coach has created for you? He is supposed to be the paint protector and control the defensive boards. He has been in the league for what is it at least 5 years. He is making $22 million dollars a year. It is time to throw his ass off the team anyway possible. He is the creator of bad chemistry. That type of player was keenly described by Paul Pearce last week. Drummond is a player Pearce would not play with when he was in his prime. Am I too mean? All I want is to watch players who play hard and really care about their team. If they miss the big shot of the game, that doesn't bother me at all. Andre Drummond is trying to tell Stan Van Gundy that he wants to be traded. Maybe Stan is saying to Andre that he will have to play harder and smarter or it will be impossible for Stan to make a trade.

STAGNATION is proper description of the state of the Pistons. Knowing this why didn't Piston management buy one of those 2nd round picks? That would have been a start of something positive if the Piston brass had shown they really care about creating a good team. Meanwhile, I think Golden State made a fantastic move to get even better. Detroit owner gets an F. Piston management gets an F. The coaching staff gets an F. They have created the stagnation.

[Murph]

The "luke"-warm response and grumblings from this board on the Kenard draft were much anticipated.

I think the best case scenario in a situation like this is for Kenard to develop into a poor man's Kyle Korver...a guy that comes off the bench to shoot 3s, but who will always lack defense and quickness.  

In that Kenard is best suited for a 6th man role, maybe SVG should explore extending KCP's contract, and how much it will cost.

[Sparma]

It could be worse. The Chicago Bulls got less than expected for Jimmy Butler, then sold (!) a 2nd round pick. Not much joy in Chitown today.

What's wrong with this picture: GS bought a 2nd round pick, but we did not, being told in advance by the GM how unlikely that was given the depth of our roster.

In the next breath, as I remember, he spoke of how deep this draft class is that the undrafted group would be of special interest. That's next, I guess, hearing about how an undrafted signee could make an extraordinary contribution. Maybe so, and bring that signee on, but, again, halfway measures tend to bring tepid results.

[lemonpen]

I appreciate high bball IQ guys as much as the next guy. OK, maybe not quite as much as some. That is probably because I think IQ is many times mistaken for practiced reaction, but that is neither here nor there. High IQ. Yeah. At the end of the day this is the NBA where many many players defeat the HIGH IQ guy using the HIGHEST athleticism in the world. “You can fool me but not lose me” kind of thing. The NBA is dominated by guys with both qualities.

It only took 15 seconds of highlight video to see Kennard has below average explosiveness; pretty much like the last Dukie we drafted (and we know how that played out). Look for some blocked layups.

A former Dukie believes Luke is similar to another Dukie, JJ Redick. Good news – JJ is a great 3pt shooter and has made himself into a capable baller. Bad news – it took JJ way longer than one contract to get there. How strong is our patience?

After about 30 seconds of highlight video I noticed that Kennard possess a skill that takes many good shooters a couple of seasons to develop. He displayed an ability to avoid onrushing defenders with a sidestep dribble, then hit the jumper. That will be critically important for a guy who doesn’t rise above the D.

The Rub: Stan Van Gundy. Who knows if SVG will play the kid, or stubbornly hold him out blaming certain deficiencies (which were likely recognized B4 the draft).

[cool breeze]

Color me somewhat disappointed, but it's my fault, I expected us to make some interesting move or a surprise pick.

Kennard doesn't excite me in the least, so I hope he can change that by being able to do the following

1. Hit the NBA 3 close to his average in college
2. Be able to get his shot off against players much faster than he's ever seen, and
3. Get a chance to show some of this by getting minutes

We'll see... here's a small blurb on the pick from the LA Times

The sharpshooting sophomore was the second-highest scorer in the ACC last year, averaging 19.5 points per game on 53% shooting inside the arc and 44% shooting from beyond. While Kennard is just an average athlete, he has tremendous offensive savvy that helps him score in bunches. He is comfortable pulling up off the dribble, understands how to get himself open off the ball and is a willing facilitator who has solid handles and rarely turns the ball over.

Defensively, however, he is going to struggle in the NBA. He’s not too quick laterally, doesn’t have the wingspan to alter shots and has been caught napping on plenty of defensive possessions during his time at Duke.

No comment by SVG yet on his failure to improve this team by making a deal to change the Pistons financial picture. Maybe his dealing partners thought our coach/President was becoming desperate relating to job security. At least there were no foolish moves made. The thing that still grinds me is Piston management's insistence on sticking with the same lineups throughout the season until the final week when changes should have happened much earlier that could have brought more experience to the young players and lifted us higher into the lottery. There were some really good prospects up to number 10. How SVG kept his job in all of this doesn't make sense.

Paul Pierce is becoming my favorite commentator on relating to NBA basketball. He has a fresh protective on players and teams. Free agents who look around to see what place might be better for them all think first of the rosters and eliminate any key players who "are not engaged" and act as if they are not interested. He mentions Aldridge with the Spurs and gave details that players see that others do not see. So that was pretty clever by Stan Van Gundy when he mentioned to the press that Andre Drummond "needs to be more engaged". Again I though it was pretty funny when a Detroit sports reporter asked Andre if he had found time to work on his free throw shooting since his nose surgery which was one month or more after the surgery. "No I haven't found any time". He does have a lot of time to promote the Halo burger though. All those new draftees are interviewing so much better than in the old days. They all appear excited and eager to start playing and improving. Who is real and who isn't? This must drive GMs mad.

[Oracle]

Phillip, after the Booker pick you made, I give you a lot of leash on these things.

I only quibble with the defense part. Yeah, everybody doesn't need to be the best, hell Booker is no great defender, but he does defend a little.

This guy not only doesn't defend, he opens the back door of his hospital gown and supplies the grease! Might even get a little on his teammates in the process.

I don't want to say he's soft defensively, but his nickname was likely pu$$y in college.

All I can say is that I hope he can shoot, because if he can, I might be able to look away when these NBA 2nd team SG's rape his arse.

Good high IQ, sharp shooting, smart, kid that works hard to get off A really special 3ball shot. The Pistons need more guys like this kid.

This kid is the type of player that you have to have on your team to win in todays NBA.

Everybody is worried about his defense. Everybody can't be all NBA defense. But some guys can lead the NBA in 3pt% This kid will do that one day.

I like Luke. The kid will be A welcomed edition to the roster. But other changes need to be made.

[deusXango]

2017-Luke Kennard, our draft pick, must get a lot better on defense, or what?

2016-Henry Ellenson, our draft pick, must get bigger and stronger, plus he doesn't shot the 3 ball. And Leuer did with his big, strong ass?!

2015-Stanley Johnson, our draft pick, has a flat, funny looking, jump shot; we've got to fix that. In fixing a jump shot, SVG fu@ked up his whole game...so much for big and strong and playing "bulldog defense."

Three years of heading the franchise I love and three draft picks that the coach found to be severely flawed, once he saw them, and one playoff appearance before reverting back to the loosing ways of an uninspired team. I think the playoffs were an illusion of what we have as a competent leader! Why weren't the player evaluations done before the drafts, instead of after? What type of psychosis does SVG suffer with that as president/GM he can't acquire players that his coach (SVG) can't get results from? When will we realize it's time to move on from SVG and his dog Eastwood?

[deusXango]

Well, we kept the pick, and that makes me happy, but a 6' 5" SG with a 6' 0" wingspan? This is going to be interesting on a lot of levels. Will SVG play him in the rotation? When the "Buckeye Kid" starts shooting the lights out, will the other under-performers step up their games? They know who they are. When it becomes apparent that Kennard's I.Q. makes him a better fit than all the imaginary pluses that justifies KCP's newly signed contract, then what?

Think SVG can get Monte Morris for cash considerations? Just a thought since SVG seems to have soured on Beno and we can use a 3rd PG.

I ain't doing back over flips, but welcome to the "D" Luke Kennard, I wish nothing but the best for you!!

[Phil-Good]

Good high IQ, sharp shooting, smart, kid that works hard to get off A really special 3ball shot. The Pistons need more guys like this kid.

This kid is the type of player that you have to have on your team to win in todays NBA.

Everybody is worried about his defense. Everybody can't be all NBA defense. But some guys can lead the NBA in 3pt% This kid will do that one day.

I like Luke. The kid will be A welcomed edition to the roster. But other changes need to be made.

[Oracle]

Color me somewhat disappointed, but it's my fault, I expected us to make some interesting move or a surprise pick.

Kennard doesn't excite me in the least, so I hope he can change that by being able to do the following

1. Hit the NBA 3 close to his average in college
2. Be able to get his shot off against players much faster than he's ever seen, and
3. Get a chance to show some of this by getting minutes

We'll see... here's a small blurb on the pick from the LA Times

The sharpshooting sophomore was the second-highest scorer in the ACC last year, averaging 19.5 points per game on 53% shooting inside the arc and 44% shooting from beyond. While Kennard is just an average athlete, he has tremendous offensive savvy that helps him score in bunches. He is comfortable pulling up off the dribble, understands how to get himself open off the ball and is a willing facilitator who has solid handles and rarely turns the ball over.

Defensively, however, he is going to struggle in the NBA. He’s not too quick laterally, doesn’t have the wingspan to alter shots and has been caught napping on plenty of defensive possessions during his time at Duke.

[Sparma]

Solid pick, no franchise savior though.

It's uncanny how good the consensus predictions have become.

One away from Monk. What might have gotten us that one move up? Nor Gbinije I think (which one prognosticator had us moving from 12 to 10 for Monk). Maybe Stanley J?

I can now tally how much my zealous following of draft coverage has taken out of my shrinking life span. More than was worth it, I fear. We've had some good times on the forum recently though.

Was that it for Pistons' summer excitement or can we look forward to a big trade?

[cool breeze]

I am starting to get excited although I thought Mitchell might be gone and wasn't and SVG took a pass on him, it is clear that this Piston team needs more smart players who can make shots. I liked his interview. Good pick SVG.

[cool breeze]

I guarantee that there are no players on the Detroit Piston team that New York would be interested in trading for Porzingis. I think the Knicks crafty GM is playing with the press but if a trade does go down it will not involve the Pistons. He has been injured and missed some games but this guy is a fantastic player. I think New York will deal Anthony if anything. That would make sense. Right now the Knicks are dead in the water much like our Piston team but they do have two star players. We have none. Detroit needs to get on the right path and try to position themselves better in this and next year's draft. We need better players so we can make deals for guys like Porzingis.

By the way dX I have ridiculed Stan Van Gundy many times for signing Leuer and Jackson. I think it is impossible right now to get any team to take them considering the contracts their agents got from SVG. If there was any talk at all regarding those players right now I would be extremely excited. But that is not the case. And Drummond is the guy who plays with very little passion much of the time. He is the player with the mega contract we need to move before every other team figures him out if they haven't already figured him out which I believe they have. I am just hoping like hell Stan can pull off a miracle.

[cool breeze]

"If there is a better deal s be it but if Detroit can somehow extract themselves from the Drummond contract the Pistons have life again. We do not need to sign Pope with Affalo on board for at least one season if not two. SVG would love to have Affalo. We get the Kings other first round pick. We get two picks today if this deal goes down. We can worry about losing Jackson and Leuer on another day. However, maybe Jackson and Leuer will surprise us once Andre is gone."-Don

Don, there's a great deal of respect I have for your knowledge of and passion for the game, but now I have to vehemently disagree with you and your seemingly blind hatred for one Andre Drummond. For the last couple of months every post you've made has been about ripping Drummond for deficiencies that could've been corrected by #1 truly knowledgeable coaching (which includes pushing him to grow the fu@k up) and #2 taking into consideration the role models he's played with since becoming a Piston (Greg Monroe, Josh Smith, Jason Maxiell).

Today, at a crucial time in the franchises history, you champion trading Drummond (leaving us without any rebounding, offensive or otherwise) and not expressing an open-minded view of the teams successful return to downtown Detroit by saying "maybe Jackson and Leuer will surprise us once Andre is gone." WTF? Maybe Andre will surprise us once Jackson and Leuer are gone! Because SVG was too damn opinionated and petty, demonstrated by the benching of Harris in favor of Leuer, even after Leuer consistently stunk up the game, and the refusal to play Ellenson for any of those 30 games that Leuer wasn't performing, doesn't mean that Drummond was comfortable playing with SVG's choice of the starting PF. I really don't see how Drummond's absence will transform Jackson into a less selfish PG, who will push the pace, distribute the ball to open teammates, and make the players around him better.

The consistent reminding fellow fans that Whiteside tipped in the winning shot over Drummond, keeping us out of playoffs that we didn't deserve to be in, isn't the first type of "brain fart" experienced by a Piston player; what about Sheed leaving "Big Shot Rob" which cost us a championship? It left a bitter taste in all Pistons fans mouths, but there's a difference between a championship and a playoff run, where we would've certainly been embarrassed in the first round! That type of reporting has the impressionable fan looking away from facts, like the impact on the payroll of Jackson and Leuer (combined greater than Drummonds contract, which a lot of his detractors love to talk about), and two holes in the rotation that can't be patched as easily as one.

It would have been refreshing to read at least one post where you ripped Jackson and/or Leuer with the same passion and game dissection that you consistently did Drummond. I'd like to think that knowledgeable fans, that are into gambling on the Pistons future, would gamble that the teams core, with Drummond, would be better off in 2-3 years than if Drummond was gone and we were left with Jackson and Leuer.

The elephant in the room is, why do we make a case to hold on to Reggie, who last had a decent stretch, as a starting PG, two years ago, but have convenient amnesia when it comes to this past seasons first 21 games, led by Ish Smith...in those 21 games he had a tremendous demand to learn the team, offensive/defensive schemes, and establish a winning record. "He's a backup." For a backup he led the team like a starter, but as a starter, Reggie led the team like a backup! Money don't win games, unless the refs are being paid, so money had absolutely nothing to do with winning, but everything to do with loosing.

A reporter recently asked Drummond a question as to if he has been able to work on his free throw shooting since he had the nose surgery which over a month after he had the procedure. Drummond's response was NO. How many times have we seen players come back after one week playing in real games after that surgery? Is Drummond engaged? He is really coachable? Nobody has been able to coach him so far in his life. And now I am wondering if he did the tank job intentionally after Christmas last season trying to force SVG's hand to trade him out of Piston land. Slack off and deliberately screw up defensive rotations especially in the paint switching on to his teammates man for no reason so the guard has to defend a center. Who in hell does that? Rasheed was arguing with the baseline ref when he had that one brain fart that cost the Pistons that game. But Rasheed was a player always knowing what to do and always emotionally engaged when it counted. You can't compare those two players. They are not in the same league.

For good reason I am not as worried about Reggie Jackson's contract as I am with Andre Drummond's contract. This team is dead in the water with this center and his contract. This is personal for me, I actually hate watching Drummond play. He is a knucklehead type player. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to coach him. This team will be so much better without him. Let Andre peddle his Halo burger in another city. I wish him well and hope like hell some team will take him. If Jackson comes back healthy and can play like he did the previous year, then he will be very marketable. If not at least he will not be making 24 mil down the road. I am sure SVG will bring in an adequate center. If it is Baynes for this next season or two, I am OK with that. We draft a Harry Giles or some other young stud and you will think Drummond was your worst nightmare. I still have my doubts that anything will actually happen though. It will be a damn miracle if Drummond is traded.

[cool breeze]

WTF, the Kings interested in Drummond???

Hell, then why didn't we do that deal and get Boogie??? Talk about missed opportunities!

@Don - Afflalo hasn't looked good in a few years.

Man, I sure hope SVG is one of the GM's offering up packages for Porzingis. 
Out: Dre + Johnson + Hilliard + #12. 
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. Noah's bad contract is 1 yr shorter than Dre's.

Out: RJax + Boban + Ellenson + #12
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. I could be talked out of them including #8.

If Dombrowski could unload Prince Fielder anything is possible. 

I could go for both, but the first one is more to my liking. Yes, bring on the Fielder magic 

According to the Kings web site only 1.5 mil of the 12.5 is guaranteed relating to Affalo. He could do wonders for Stanley Johnson and the overall team chemistry. Affalo is a great human being who makes everyone better on the court and off the court. I still have not seen the Piston guard who hasn't been beaten badly by Affalo. He must still have a bad taste in his mouth with the way he was treated by Joe Dumars. Billups sure knew he was a good player and Mr. BigShot got some revenge making a fool out of Joe when his new team picked Affalo up for nothing. Affalo was always superior to Stuckey from the moment they were both drafted. It wasn't even close and that shows how subjective everything is in pro basketball with the GMs at times. Joe never was interested in the details and he ended up giving up some quality talent because of his work ethic as a GM. Joe left the detail work to John Hammond and was lost after he left for the Bucks.

That was a long time ago and I would love to see Affalo wear a Piston uniform again even if it might be for only one season. The Pistons need some older blood with high character much like Jason Terry and his impact with the Bucks last season. Not sure how the trade would work though but if possible and there is nothing better I would be very grateful if it goes down. Something very cool could happen with one of the Kings first round picks. At least our Piston management team is working hard and if they are able to deal Drummond for the best possible deal, good things will happen.

[deusXango]

"If there is a better deal s be it but if Detroit can somehow extract themselves from the Drummond contract the Pistons have life again. We do not need to sign Pope with Affalo on board for at least one season if not two. SVG would love to have Affalo. We get the Kings other first round pick. We get two picks today if this deal goes down. We can worry about losing Jackson and Leuer on another day. However, maybe Jackson and Leuer will surprise us once Andre is gone."-Don

Don, there's a great deal of respect I have for your knowledge of and passion for the game, but now I have to vehemently disagree with you and your seemingly blind hatred for one Andre Drummond. For the last couple of months every post you've made has been about ripping Drummond for deficiencies that could've been corrected by #1 truly knowledgeable coaching (which includes pushing him to grow the fu@k up) and #2 taking into consideration the role models he's played with since becoming a Piston (Greg Monroe, Josh Smith, Jason Maxiell).

Today, at a crucial time in the franchises history, you champion trading Drummond (leaving us without any rebounding, offensive or otherwise) and not expressing an open-minded view of the teams successful return to downtown Detroit by saying "maybe Jackson and Leuer will surprise us once Andre is gone." WTF? Maybe Andre will surprise us once Jackson and Leuer are gone! Because SVG was too damn opinionated and petty, demonstrated by the benching of Harris in favor of Leuer, even after Leuer consistently stunk up the game, and the refusal to play Ellenson for any of those 30 games that Leuer wasn't performing, doesn't mean that Drummond was comfortable playing with SVG's choice of the starting PF. I really don't see how Drummond's absence will transform Jackson into a less selfish PG, who will push the pace, distribute the ball to open teammates, and make the players around him better.

The consistent reminding fellow fans that Whiteside tipped in the winning shot over Drummond, keeping us out of playoffs that we didn't deserve to be in, isn't the first type of "brain fart" experienced by a Piston player; what about Sheed leaving "Big Shot Rob" which cost us a championship? It left a bitter taste in all Pistons fans mouths, but there's a difference between a championship and a playoff run, where we would've certainly been embarrassed in the first round! That type of reporting has the impressionable fan looking away from facts, like the impact on the payroll of Jackson and Leuer (combined greater than Drummonds contract, which a lot of his detractors love to talk about), and two holes in the rotation that can't be patched as easily as one.

It would have been refreshing to read at least one post where you ripped Jackson and/or Leuer with the same passion and game dissection that you consistently did Drummond. I'd like to think that knowledgeable fans, that are into gambling on the Pistons future, would gamble that the teams core, with Drummond, would be better off in 2-3 years than if Drummond was gone and we were left with Jackson and Leuer.

The elephant in the room is, why do we make a case to hold on to Reggie, who last had a decent stretch, as a starting PG, two years ago, but have convenient amnesia when it comes to this past seasons first 21 games, led by Ish Smith...in those 21 games he had a tremendous demand to learn the team, offensive/defensive schemes, and establish a winning record. "He's a backup." For a backup he led the team like a starter, but as a starter, Reggie led the team like a backup! Money don't win games, unless the refs are being paid, so money had absolutely nothing to do with winning, but everything to do with loosing.

[Oracle]

It doesn't get us up high enough to get a solid replacement for Reggie, but it may accomplish two things.

After that deal we would have both the 10th and 12th pick, assuming they won't part with the 5th pick.

If that's the case, we would likely be able to get Collins to groom as a future center and platoon Koufos & Boban as centers while he learns.

With a future center in tow, we would be free to draft a PG or shooter at 12.

We finally get a decent backup in Afflalo for KCP.

IMO, the prevailing opinion in SVG's camp is that they want to give KCP a big raise because they plan to feature him in the offense along with Harris and a PG, but Reggie is the problem with that plan, you can't feature those two with Reggie running the show.

With Drummond out of the picture, there likely is less interest in Reggie being around, but I'm not sure how they solve that unless the Rubio trade is still active.

[Oracle]

WTF, the Kings interested in Drummond???

Hell, then why didn't we do that deal and get Boogie??? Talk about missed opportunities!

@Don - Afflalo hasn't looked good in a few years.

Man, I sure hope SVG is one of the GM's offering up packages for Porzingis. 
Out: Dre + Johnson + Hilliard + #12. 
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. Noah's bad contract is 1 yr shorter than Dre's.

Out: RJax + Boban + Ellenson + #12
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. I could be talked out of them including #8.

If Dombrowski could unload Prince Fielder anything is possible. 

I could go for both, but the first one is more to my liking. Yes, bring on the Fielder magic 

[cool breeze]

Man, I sure hope SVG is one of the GM's offering up packages for Porzingis.
Out: Dre + Johnson + Hilliard + #12.
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. Noah's bad contract is 1 yr shorter than Dre's.

Out: RJax + Boban + Ellenson + #12
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. I could be talked out of them including #8.

If Dombrowski could unload Prince Fielder anything is possible.

Does SVG have several teams competing for the services of Andre Drummond. I was dreaming of Fox wearing a Piston uniform and know that will not happen but it appears that the Kings are involved with Piston management in a big way. There is no way they will not draft Fox and my thought is that they need a guy like Drummond to run the pick and roll play with Fox. Looking at their roster I am not sure how this trade can work unless Detroit takes on Affalo's contract for $12,500,000 which I believe expires after this season. Then we take Kista Koufos and his $8,393,000 salary with an option for 18/19 season. Tolliver is under contract for only $2 mil for one season. Willie C. Stein is under his rookie contract for under 4 mil. Georgio Papagiannis rookie contract is 2.3 mil. Rudy Gay is a free agent it appears. And of course there is Buddy Held who they will not part with. The Kings get perhaps the best point guard in the draft in Fox to go with Held and Drummond on the pick and roll. They want this deal done badly in my opinion.

If there is a better deal s be it but if Detroit can somehow extract themselves from the Drummond contract the Pistons have life again. We do not need to sign Pope with Affalo on board for at least one season if not two. SVG would love to have Affalo. We get the Kings other first round pick. We get two picks today if this deal goes down. We can worry about losing Jackson and Leuer on another day. However, maybe Jackson and Leuer will surprise us once Andre is gone.

[lemonpen]

Man, I sure hope SVG is one of the GM's offering up packages for Porzingis.
Out: Dre + Johnson + Hilliard + #12.
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. Noah's bad contract is 1 yr shorter than Dre's.

Out: RJax + Boban + Ellenson + #12
Return: Porzingis + Joakim Noah + #8. I could be talked out of them including #8.

If Dombrowski could unload Prince Fielder anything is possible.

[Oracle]

But, the cat has already made his home in La La Land, and is establishing his beyond bball future in the west coast entertainment industry. I think it is better than 50-50 Bron finishes his career there.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the rumor is that Paul George wants to get to the Lakers as well... could we see LeBron & George hooking up?

[lemonpen]

Labron James has one  year left in his contract. He already left Cleveland once. Is he the type of player who will not want out at the first indication that his team doesn't have enough good players to win it all? Will he leave Irving to pick up the pieces or go for more glory. I am not placing any judgments on Labron but chances are from looking at past history that James is a guy who will jump ship very quickly if given the opportunity. Billups or any person who decided to take the GM position in Cleveland is in a tough spot. Kevin Love already feels that Labron wants to replace him. Can JR Smith shoot the ball the same way he did in the finals next year? How about the dependance on Richard Jefferson who is moving closer to age 40 now? It appears that Cleveland has had their run. They are as stuck in the mud as our Pistons financially but still might mop the floor with every Eastern conference team just by having James and Irving. Labron will want Billups to pull off a miracle. Will some other NBA team be the farm team this summer to help Cleveland win it all. If that happens we will all know the NBA is rigged and corrupt. Cleveland will be hard to beat by any Eastern Conference team next year just by bringing back the same crew regardless of how old they might be. Then things most likely will fall apart as Labron hunts for another team.

While Cleveland is still on top in the Eastern conference our Pistons are in a horrible financial position with a team full of dysfunctional players who most likely will be in the 12th position in the draft next summer. Does Stan Van Gundy have regrets? Could he predict that jackson and Drummond would play so poorly? I don't think so but I cannot understand what SVG was basing his decisions on when he signed Boban and Leuer for outragious money. Boban was a mop up player for the Spurs. While a lot of Piston fans believe he got screwed being out of the rotation, the truth is Boban just cannot keep up on defense with the fast paced style in the NBA. Fans are justified though in being pissed off that he didn't get more playing time based on the fact that Drummond is perhaps the worst starting center defender in the NBA. He is the worst free throw shooter. So compared to Drummond, Boban might have been a much better option last season because Boban can score. Drummond's minutes based on the weak effort he gave and his bonehead mistakes on defense should have been restricted to not more than 15 minutes a game. Boban should have played in every game and had all those minutes that Drummond faked playing the game. Meanwhile Leuer was well known in the Western conference has having a weak upper body and guy who gives up a lot of 2nd chance opportunities because of his inability of securing defensive rebounding. Leuer matched up with Drummond is certain death for any team. Leuer was the superior defender of the two which is a really scary thought.

SVG is in a pickle and he knows it. Piston management has been very quiet over the past 24 hours. Before when that happened something big happened. Could it be that SVG will pull the plug on Andre Drummond and lose that huge salary and open up new opportunities down the road for this team? I damn well hope so and if the news comes today, I will be a very happy Piston fan.

Cool, the very connotation of "jumping ship" IS passing judgment in an old fashioned don't want to come right out and say it kind of way.

But, the cat has already made his home in La La Land, and is establishing his beyond bball future in the west coast entertainment industry. I think it is better than 50-50 Bron finishes his career there.

[cool breeze]

Labron James has one year left in his contract. He already left Cleveland once. Is he the type of player who will not want out at the first indication that his team doesn't have enough good players to win it all? Will he leave Irving to pick up the pieces or go for more glory. I am not placing any judgments on Labron but chances are from looking at past history that James is a guy who will jump ship very quickly if given the opportunity. Billups or any person who decided to take the GM position in Cleveland is in a tough spot. Kevin Love already feels that Labron wants to replace him. Can JR Smith shoot the ball the same way he did in the finals next year? How about the dependance on Richard Jefferson who is moving closer to age 40 now? It appears that Cleveland has had their run. They are as stuck in the mud as our Pistons financially but still might mop the floor with every Eastern conference team just by having James and Irving. Labron will want Billups to pull off a miracle. Will some other NBA team be the farm team this summer to help Cleveland win it all. If that happens we will all know the NBA is rigged and corrupt. Cleveland will be hard to beat by any Eastern Conference team next year just by bringing back the same crew regardless of how old they might be. Then things most likely will fall apart as Labron hunts for another team.

While Cleveland is still on top in the Eastern conference our Pistons are in a horrible financial position with a team full of dysfunctional players who most likely will be in the 12th position in the draft next summer. Does Stan Van Gundy have regrets? Could he predict that jackson and Drummond would play so poorly? I don't think so but I cannot understand what SVG was basing his decisions on when he signed Boban and Leuer for outragious money. Boban was a mop up player for the Spurs. While a lot of Piston fans believe he got screwed being out of the rotation, the truth is Boban just cannot keep up on defense with the fast paced style in the NBA. Fans are justified though in being pissed off that he didn't get more playing time based on the fact that Drummond is perhaps the worst starting center defender in the NBA. He is the worst free throw shooter. So compared to Drummond, Boban might have been a much better option last season because Boban can score. Drummond's minutes based on the weak effort he gave and his bonehead mistakes on defense should have been restricted to not more than 15 minutes a game. Boban should have played in every game and had all those minutes that Drummond faked playing the game. Meanwhile Leuer was well known in the Western conference has having a weak upper body and guy who gives up a lot of 2nd chance opportunities because of his inability of securing defensive rebounding. Leuer matched up with Drummond is certain death for any team. Leuer was the superior defender of the two which is a really scary thought.

SVG is in a pickle and he knows it. Piston management has been very quiet over the past 24 hours. Before when that happened something big happened. Could it be that SVG will pull the plug on Andre Drummond and lose that huge salary and open up new opportunities down the road for this team? I damn well hope so and if the news comes today, I will be a very happy Piston fan.

[cool breeze]

U was surprised to find out that this crew of experts with NBATV has Lauri Markkanen going past the Pistons pick to number 13. That is insane. Two of the experts said Markkanen stated that there is no dispute that Markkanen is the best big man scorer including accuracy beyond the 3 point line of any other player and one of the two best shooters in the entire draft. But then they agreed that Markkanen is not a very good defender so it is believed that New York will pass on him at the 8th spot and Detroit will draft according to need at 2 guard and draft Kennard. After watching Markkanen play in every game this season and seeing him in person in every home game, there is no doubt in my mind that he is one of the best big men ever to play in the PAC12. His basketball IQ is off the charts high. Maybe scouts watched a game where Markkanen was guarding a small forward. He actually defended well at 3 different positions - center, power forward and small forward. He patched up the holes in Arizona's defense and was the most solid defender in the paint as his team had an extremely weak starting center in Duson Ristic. If Detroit passes on Markkanen it will be a huge mistake regardless of the roster having Leuer and Harris. Markkanen is a solidly built 7 footer who can hit the 3 ball, shoot the midrange jump shot, and drive the basketball. I really think that the Knicks will draft him and pass on Frank Ntilikina.

NBA TV experts have Mitchell going to the Hornets at number 11. Monk drops way down to number 9 in their mock draft. Dennis Smith is listed in the 6th spot which I believe is a big mistake. Smith is one of those guys who you can't trust if you are a GM. He has all the tools to be great but might be another Andre Drummond because he has no interest in playing even average defense. The steal in this draft might go to the Bucks as NBA TV has them selecting Harry Giles.

As of today, I am not satisfied with Kennard as ever becoming a really good 2 NBA quality 2 guard but really like him and would really be excited if he is picked and can hold his own on defense. My pick for this draft is Harry Giles. If his knees are OK, this guy can be a super star. Detroit moves Drummond if not before the draft then before the trade deadline. If the Bucks get him then I would hope Detroit would try to pick off one of their big men in a trade. I see that Monroe has picked up his option and will return to Milwaukee.

My dream would be for Detroit to somehow make a trade with the Kings and get their pick. Imagine Fox playing point guard for the Pistons. This guy is dynamite. Incredible quick feet and high basketball IQ makes him really special along with Tatum if Jayson can stay healthy. There will be some happy fans today.

Detroit could have been right there at the 5th or 6th spot if Piston management had not had their heads buried in the sand two weeks after Reggie Jackson returned from his injury. That is when Ellenson should have been installed in the rotation with Leuer and Reggie going to the bench. Morris comes off the bench and Stanley Johnson starts for the remainder of the season. We lose just enough games to move up and get a super star player. Ellenson and Johnson become key members of the team moving forward. As of now, Ellenson has no experience and Johnson is a fringe player. There is no way that Morris should be the starting small forward this coming season. Harris should get that job. But SVG loves the Morris contract and might be a bit afraid of him as well so Morris will most likely be the starting small forward for at least one more season. Too bad because it won't work well again and Morris will be out of gas by January but the coach will ignore it like he ignored Andre Drummond's lack of interest at about that same time period. Those two players might be effective again up until the first part of January or up to Christmas Eve. The coach has a conveniently short memory.

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