Re: FORUM

[cool breeze]

He wants out.  Go get him SVG!

He was a loser before LeBron came and while he could improve a team, he's another ball dominant guard that without the other weapons around him can't get it done.

He doesn't realize that he gets those clean shots, not because he's great, but teams have to worry about the real threats on the Cavs. Another case of press clippings going to a players head.

Celtics may well inherit the east and the Pistons move up a notch 

"The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said."

James, according to the report, was blindsided by the news.

Bradley said that Irving was his most difficult assignment and spoke extremely highly of him. He seemed to be injury prone earlier on in his career and also in his one season at Duke. But if I were rating players who performed in the playoffs this last season, he would be really high on the list as prime time performers. He does create his own shot without Labron and does a great job moving without the basketball and using screens.

While Labron James is one of the great all time basketball players, I see where some of his teammates are coming from this summer. The team has three outstanding offensive players in James, Irving and Love. After Cleveland lost in the finals suddenly those players feel like they are not good enough for Labron to share the locker room with anymore. Love especially must feel that he no longer measures up. Who has created all they hype as to Labron James future? The guy is from the State of Ohio. If he wants out why wouldn't the other players want out because they came to Cleveland for the chance to play with James. All James wants is more rings. Will he go to the Lakers? How about Houston? Players now wonder why they are in Cleveland. The fans in Ohio are much like the loyal Piston fans. We grew up pulling for the Pistons and haven't changed throughout our lives. We have witnessed fantastic basketball played by real champions who loved each other like family. There was a real bond between the fans and the players which the Bad Boys keep on saying to this day. Who thought about wanting to get a ring at another city in those times? Player agents and huge egos have affected the NBA and other pro sports in a bad way. When will the interest die out and fans not longer watch or care? That documentary on Cleveland about their sports teams is revealing. When the Cavaliers won their first title all the other sports teams got involved in the parade especially some of the old Browns players and that one back who fumbled the football on the one yard line that cost the Browns a championship many years ago. He was in the parade.

Labron could be a real hero if he finished out his career in Cleveland. He could set the tone for the other superstar players. But it appears he will leave for greener pastures as quickly as he can to perhaps LA where he can sell his brand and make even more money. This is a free country at least for awhile so best of luck Labron. But he will not be remembered as a hero in Cleveland or in the State of Ohio where he grew up. I really am surprised at this turn of events with James. I thought might finish his career in Cleveland. What if the basketball Gods strike like and his luck runs out once he moves as the injuries start piling up. Will he get some boos in Laker land if he can no longer deliver? They would still love him in Cleveland if he stayed.

I would sure give up Drummond for Irving or Love but of course Mr. Gores would not trade Andre Drummond for even Labron. They have a special relationship. I can't stop laughing about that idea the press has brought out. Where are our comedy writers? Now is the time to return.

[Oracle]

He wants out.  Go get him SVG!

He was a loser before LeBron came and while he could improve a team, he's another ball dominant guard that without the other weapons around him can't get it done.

He doesn't realize that he gets those clean shots, not because he's great, but teams have to worry about the real threats on the Cavs. Another case of press clippings going to a players head.

Celtics may well inherit the east and the Pistons move up a notch 

"The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to go play in a situation where he can be a more focal point and no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said."

James, according to the report, was blindsided by the news.

[Go Stones!]

He wants out. Go get him SVG!

[cool breeze]

How could it be possible that the Piston front office with Jeff Bower advising the President SVG would stake the fortune of the Pistons this coming season with one player, Reggie Jackson? There is no doubt that there was a big effort to trade Jackson and upgrade the point guard position by at least Bower and SVG. But it gets back to who makes the actual decisions for this team? Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson have a special click that excludes all other players. The owner has embraced this theme that Reggie and Andre are the star players and the rest of the players only play minor roles. Reggie looked like he had a cardio issue instead of a knee issue when he returned. He was gasping for oxygen after only one or two minutes and looked exhausted most of the time he played. The coaching staff couldn't have missed that if some of us and especially the opposition noticed that Reggie was struggling with something other than a physical problem with his knee. But does logic and reason apply when decisions are actually made with the Pistons in this era? We know this much. Andre Drummond loves Reggie Jackson. Reggie gets Andre the ball on offense or did the previous season. They formed a special bond. The owner has a special bond with Andre Drummond. We know that much too. So if there were trade opportunities available to the Pistons say for Rubio or other established point guards, did Andre have the final say in those potential deals. I say this because maybe the owner who made Andre team captain last year tells Drummond what SVG wants to do and after consulting with his buddy Andre, could it be that the owner then says NO? No trade damn it all. Reggie gets Andre the ball for his baseline hook shot. That is what we need more of next season.

Using logic and reason which SVG and Bower are not allowed to do, one could believe that Detroit will struggle again next season because of the same reasons they had such bad team chemistry last season. Almost anyone who knows the NBA and is not emotionally involved with the Pistons would say that the Pistons have major flaws that have not been addressed. They are weak at point guard regardless of what the spin is with the local press who get their stories from the Pistons front office. The front office get their marching orders from the owners group of non basketball people. The only thing the owners group is interested in is Andre Drummond and keeping him happy. Meanwhile, the Pistons do not have a top tier point guard on the team. They have a 2nd tier at best starting point guard in Reggie Jackson who has some kind of medical issue that does not involve his knee. And Reggie is a huge liability on defense which will hurt the team's chances of success in getting that 8th spot. The other big issue is the starting center position. Andre Drummond is a horrible defender regardless of the spin. The only center who could defend last season is no gone and his name was Baynes. Remember all those games where Baynes was in the game in crunch time while the $20 plus million dollar man had to ride the bench? Why would anyone think Andre Drummond will be good enough of a player to provide valuable minutes in crunch time next season? Nobody plays defense in the Drew League? That is not where a player goes to improve on the defensive end. Andre wants the ball more next year. So once again healthy or not Reggie will be dribbling around trying to throw the ball to Andre while the rest of the players stand around. How many touches have been deemed as mandatory by the owner for Andre next year?

If the point guard position is not upgraded from Jackson and Smith the Pistons are in big trouble. If the coach got permission to try Bradley or Kennard in the point guard role, that would be great but not likely. Andre won't approve. He wants more of the pick and roll play again. That is all Andre knows and it is all about what Andre wants. If the coach revolts and does the right thing will he be fired? He has Boban and Moreland which to me is a better option than Andre Drummond but still how much those two players can give is still a big unknown. I got excited for one day when I heard that the Clippers might be interested in trading their center for Drummond. Wouldn't that have been fantastic even if it would only last for one season? Imagine a center who cares about shot blocking, defensive rebounding and protecting the paint more than getting offensive touches. Maybe the writer who provided the article on Reggie Jackson and the Pistons playoff hopes does know the real story about who makes all the decisions. Imagine the power Andre Drummond holds having the owner in his pocket. Forget all about all the other players that SVG and Jeff Bower has added. They are not important. This approaching season will be act two of the Reggie - Andre show. I suspect that SVG will resign after the season is over. The owner won't blink and eye. He will be consulting Andre as to who he should hire next while watching pre game clips of Andre and Reggie dancing in the circle with the rest of the roster players forming the circle for the stars trying hard to look excited.

[cool breeze]

Wow Don, that's a very great observation, and I totally agree!

While Oracle has said that a player can develop a higher basketball IQ through experience I do not dispute that thought but believe through my own personal experience that there are just some basketball players who seem to be able to see the future or see the opportunities faster than other players(Very true). They are just born with that gift. In Bradley's case forgetting his high basketball IQ, one should look at his ball handling skills compared to Pope. He played some point guard in the NBA but had some difficulty playing the NBA type game. Over the past three seasons, Avery has dedicated his off season to get better and better as a ball handler, shot creator, passer, screener, and just about every other area that I haven't mentioned. He does the little things that make all the difference between success and failure. KCP has not yet scratched the surface and is not anywhere close to being in the same category as Bradley(Totally true, and while not an excuse, IMO, SVG's offense discourages picking up those skills because he wants KCP camped out at the 3 point line while Reggie dribbles). He might become a prolific scorer some day. But the two players are very different and always will be difference type players. That ends my attempts to compare the two

Oracle there is no doubt that Pope's improvement has been limited like Johnson because he is told to stand and wait until the point guard throws a bone his way. How could KCP learn how to set an effective screen and then use the screen he set to get open. SVG's 2 guards are seldom involved in this stupid offense. But with all the new stuff on this "special" relationship between the proclaimed franchise player and the owner makes a lot of Piston fans wonder if Stan Van Gundy actually makes any decisions. Is he a puppet in title only head coach and President? It just doesn't make any sense that any coach would stick with the pick and roll offense that never worked all season long and especially after Reggie Jackson played so poorly after his return from the knee issue. Who benefits from this 4 out and 1 in out dated offense? What is the number one option in that offense? It is clear to me that the owner still insisted on the team running the offense so Andre Drummond could get the touches he wanted. Isn't it too bad that Andre Drummond doesn't give a crap about being a real basketball player and to use his physical assets in a way that could really help any basketball team he plays on? He hates playing defense. He doesn't understand how to rotate or position himself properly not mentioning his inability to anticipate opponent plays. Wouldn't it be great if AD called his buddy the owner at night after a big loss and asked the owner if he would talk to SVG and ask him to hire a conditioning coach and outstanding big man defensive coach to get the big center on the All Star team based on his defensive ability. He has a clear path to stardom but won't embrace it. And the owner enables his employee anyway he can. If only SVG would tape some of his conversations from the owner about AD. That would be a way to stop the insanity.

I cannot believe that Stan Van Gundy or any coach for that matter would stick with the pick and roll as the first option in the team's offense after Reggie couldn't perform and the play would involve Ish Smith and AD. That was like committing suicide. Yet it happened. How far will Piston management go this season to make AD happy? Maybe you are right about the young guys getting excluded and playing in the G League this coming season. They will not be effective anyway if the team runs that same offense.

But there still is talk about AD and the Suns. The roster is better in my opinion and the players are capable of running an offense featuring 3 or more options in one half court possession. Kennard is mature for his age and is a smart basketball player. Ellenson has a ways to go with his positioning and anticipation on defense. Johnson is smart and capable of getting teammates open using his body in the paint. We could see a lot of player and ball movement for the first time in years. If the owner would agree to a beneficial trade to bring in a athletic defensive minded shot blocking center, that could be a start of something special in Piston land. If the pick and roll offense with Reggie and Andre is forced down the throats of the players who are not named Jackson and Drummond, we are in for more of the same. Andre's value might be about as high as it will ever be right now. If nothing happens all we can hope for is that Andre Drummond suddenly sees the light and changes completely from his former self. He has lost some weight. That is a start. But will he become a dominate feared defensive minded center that opponents don't look forward to playing against. Last year opponents really enjoyed playing against our big guy. The clock is ticking.

[Oracle]

[Oracle]

Wow Don, that's a very great observation, and I totally agree!

While Oracle has said that a player can develop a higher basketball IQ through experience I do not dispute that thought but believe through my own personal experience that there are just some basketball players who seem to be able to see the future or see the opportunities faster than other players(Very true). They are just born with that gift. In Bradley's case forgetting his high basketball IQ, one should look at his ball handling skills compared to Pope. He played some point guard in the NBA but had some difficulty playing the NBA type game. Over the past three seasons, Avery has dedicated his off season to get better and better as a ball handler, shot creator, passer, screener, and just about every other area that I haven't mentioned. He does the little things that make all the difference between success and failure. KCP has not yet scratched the surface and is not anywhere close to being in the same category as Bradley(Totally true, and while not an excuse, IMO, SVG's offense discourages picking up those skills because he wants KCP camped out at the 3 point line while Reggie dribbles). He might become a prolific scorer some day. But the two players are very different and always will be difference type players. That ends my attempts to compare the two

[Oracle]

@Sparma - That's a fairly objective comparison. I like Bradley a lot because there's no way to measure a player with a sh!t load of HEART, and he has that in spades.

My three issues with Bradley are,

1. Size! With more teams getting bigger and longer, we're going in the wrong direction. I think he's great for a one year rental, but that's it, IMO.
2. Nobody thinks he'll sign here again because, IMO, he's going to have a great season and will get good offers from better clubs.
3. This isn't about Bradley, it's more SVG, but the move simply kicks the can down the road and doesn't address the 90M/yr in non-producing players.

My prediction for how good this team could be is partly based on the fact that if Stanley Johnson makes the starting lineup, the combination of two plus defenders will produce an effect that's greater than the sum. Hence the reason I always wanted to see KCP & Stanley together.

@Killers - Your time is up! OJ Simpson is soon to be a free man! Free to track you killers down, you should be quaking in your boots!

New signing: Yet another SF that SVG will never play... at least he's cheap.

[cool breeze]

I found it interesting to compare the two SGs at about the same age (with KCP being about 3 months younger for the season being compared).   Based on this comparison, it does look like there’s a case to be made for KCP being on par with Bradley in two years, when he reaches the same age, but three considerations make me question such an inference: 1) Bradley was clearly the better shooter at the same age (and his 3pt % had come down from 39.5, a level KCP hasn’t sniffed), 2) Bradley had already been 2nd team All-NBA defensive team the preceding season and was going to be 1st team the following season (while KCP got 1 vote this season), and 3) Bradley’s rebounding nearly doubled two seasons hence (to 6.1), an extraordinary leap that I wouldn’t want to predict for anyone two years down the line (even granted the role of a small Boston line up).  On the other hand, it’s notable that KCP’s PER and WS were higher than Bradley’s at a comparable age.


Avery Bradley Age 24 season
2014-2015 G 77 Pts 13.9 TRB 3.1 Ast 1.8 FG% 42.9 FG3% 35.2 eFG% 49.0 PER 11.5 WS 2.5

KCP Age 23/ 24 season
2016-17 G 76 PTS 13.8 TRB 3.3 AST 2.5 FG% 39.9 FG3% 35.0 FT% 83.2 eFG% 48.1 PER 12.8 WS 4.5

Some information that might be subjective on my part but nonetheless might be the most important of all if you believe that your eyes do not lie when observing your own experience without relying on stats created by another human being would be the following. Avery Bradley has always been a player who has had a high basketball IQ which was noticeably better than other players he played with and against at every level he has played. He knows what to do and where to go on both defense and offense. Coaches don't have to tell him what to do.

Bill Laimbeer said the following about Isiah Thomas when he first started playing with him in Detroit. Bill said that he was a player who always seemed to be able to think at least one step ahead of opposing players he played against at every level. Once he practiced and played a few regular season games with Zeke he realized that Thomas was able to think three steps ahead of opponent players all the time. That is what Bill Laimbeer loved more than anything he experienced while playing basketball in his entire life. It was fun playing with Zeke.

I find it hard to even try to compare Bradley and Pope. They are not at all alike. But the stat people try to make those comparisons and of course the agent lawyers like to use that stuff to sell their as yet not fully developed clients. Bradley has a far superior basketball IQ than Pope. While Oracle has said that a player can develop a higher basketball IQ through experience I do not dispute that thought but believe through my own personal experience that there are just some basketball players who seem to be able to see the future or see the opportunities faster than other players. They are just born with that gift. In Bradley's case forgetting his high basketball IQ, one should look at his ball handling skills compared to Pope. He played some point guard in the NBA but had some difficulty playing the NBA type game. Over the past three seasons, Avery has dedicated his off season to get better and better as a ball handler, shot creator, passer, screener, and just about every other area that I haven't mentioned. He does the little things that make all the difference between success and failure. KCP has not yet scratched the surface and is not anywhere close to being in the same category as Bradley. He might become a prolific scorer some day. But the two players are very different and always will be difference type players.

My concern going forward for the Piston team is will politics relating to the owners influence and will his relationship with Andre Drummond infringe on the potential this team might now if the wrong player is given the leadership role? When you have Avery Bradley on the team and somehow the season starts and he is just another stick figure told to stand in his spot while the pick and roll offense featuring AD and RJ continues to be the focus, it will be pretty sad for me. The more I hear about this special relationship between the owner and the center the more it makes sense that SVG did not call the shots at all last season. This stupid offense was designed for Andre Drummond and the owner had to have a lot to do with the decision to implement that offense that never worked. Bradley is by far the best player on the Piston team and is a natural leader but he has no close ties with the owner. If this nonsense continues there will be no other way for Bradley to go but to just blend in and wait his time until next season is officially over. Then he will leave and the Pistons will be without their best player. If the owner or the head coach determines who the team leader will be instead of the players, there will be more dysfunction like last season. I don't blame the young Andre Drummond. The fault lies with the team owner and perhaps SVG for not standing up for what is right. Imagine Zeke coming to the Pistons as a young capable top tier player being told to just blend in because this is AD's team. Bradley might not be in the category of Isiah Thomas but he is a player who plays the right way with passion and smarts. But Reggie Jackson is coming back and Andre Drummond is coming back. And we have the same head coach and the same owner. How will this thing work? How will the team chemistry ever get better?

[Sparma]

I found it interesting to compare the two SGs at about the same age (with KCP being about 3 months younger for the season being compared). Based on this comparison, it does look like there’s a case to be made for KCP being on par with Bradley in two years, when he reaches the same age, but three considerations make me question such an inference: 1) Bradley was clearly the better shooter at the same age (and his 3pt % had come down from 39.5, a level KCP hasn’t sniffed), 2) Bradley had already been 2nd team All-NBA defensive team the preceding season and was going to be 1st team the following season (while KCP got 1 vote this season), and 3) Bradley’s rebounding nearly doubled two seasons hence (to 6.1), an extraordinary leap that I wouldn’t want to predict for anyone two years down the line (even granted the role of a small Boston line up). On the other hand, it’s notable that KCP’s PER and WS were higher than Bradley’s at a comparable age.


Avery Bradley Age 24 season
2014-2015 G 77 Pts 13.9 TRB 3.1 Ast 1.8 FG% 42.9 FG3% 35.2 eFG% 49.0 PER 11.5 WS 2.5

KCP Age 23/ 24 season
2016-17 G 76 PTS 13.8 TRB 3.3 AST 2.5 FG% 39.9 FG3% 35.0 FT% 83.2 eFG% 48.1 PER 12.8 WS 4.5

[Oracle]

Just to get this out of the way, I do value you as a forum member and love the way you're a real participant with your own views that add significance to the discussion. I say this because it's true and I hope you don't take what I say too personally, but I expect and like people that stand up for their position.

Having said that, DAMN Bro, use a different color when responding, you're killing me 

I won't go into everything you said, but yes, I've been negative about the Bradley move, but NOT the team! My predictions don't match the negativity you appear to apply in a blanket fashion. Since when is being negative about ONE move made me negative overall?

BTW, it's not amazing that I didn't like the move, what's amazing is that so many do, and it's an isolated thing. The Bradley move is widely panned everywhere else, judged to be no higher than a "C", with mostly "D's". The lack of curiosity as to why he was so easily obtained is stunning.

I stated that KCP is way more talented, and unlike you, I'll tell you why.

1. There isn't a player that's existed that came out of their rookie contract that was as good as they're going to get, but they should show indicators of where they could go
2. You can't teach height, KCP has superior height... WAY superior
3.You can't teach speed,  KCP is WAY faster
4. KCP is WAY more athletic
5. You can't teach or learn how to take over games and dominate. Good NBA players do this once in a blue moon, but when it happens more often than that, it's special.

There is a HUGE difference between performance and talent! Rodney White had great talent, but could never perform.

Talent is the innate ability of a player, performance is how well the player harnesses that innate ability.

It really is impossible to judge things when this difference is fuzzy, because that's why the Lakers wanted KCP. They can see the up side, the only question becomes, if the player can harness his talents to achieve it.

Bradley isn't going to get a lot better, KCP is just starting. It's like the difference of two years when you're a teenager, it's HUGE, but when you're in your 30's it's smaller, and later in life, 2 years difference means absolutely nothing.

SVG really wanted KCP, but because KCP could see the writing on the wall, what was the point. The sad part is that SVG had to lose Morris in the process(although that did make Murph happy), he got caught up in the process, but at least he has a chance to go deep into the playoffs and have a nice rivalry with his brother.

[BallinD]

I'm enjoying your banter, and trying to be objective(this has always been my point, why has/is being objective been such a problem? It infers a bias that I think we all know is/has been there), but i couldn't help but notice hyperbole when it slaps me in the face. Oracle, we all have players we like more than others or less than others, everyone is biased to a degree. Our bias shows in the fact we are fans for one team and not all. So as to my bias, it is recognized and acknowledged, if you do not acknowledge an issue, you'll never address it. That being said, you have been spewing negativity vs this trade since it was made, despite your assertions to the contrary. I always like KCP and advocated Joe Draft him. That doesn't mean I can see he is a wildly inconsistent, bombs away, below league average shooter. He has poor handles, poor BBall IQ is a worse rebounder than Bradley and a lesser defender, despite less height (which seems to be your single criteria) What talents does KCP have better? He may be faster, may be able to jump higher, but those aren't necessarily basketball talents, that is athleticism. Oh wait, he is taller. That is a talent, right?

First off, I am way more concerned for and interested in Bradley and the way forward to keeping him and integrating his defense, leadership and shooting into our Pistons (who need all three), than in jawjacking(then why are you jawjacking?) about one overrated and average SG in KCP(overrated is your opinion and I respect it, obviously that doesn't go both ways) who thumbed his nose at our team and took a lesser offer to leave(Obviously not that concerned if you can't/won't look at the acquisition from all angles other than dreaming it's a perfect match). I can see many, maybe not all angles seen by the all-seeing Oracle. But I would say that quite possibly, in the LA Run n Gun offense (if they keep it?) he might score more points this coming year, just from running the floor with Ball and bombing away. That is possible, but his efficiency is typically low, so it is debatable if that means he is better, or just gets more usage (remember Jodi Meeks?)

That being said, the hyperbole(I see, your opinion is valid, and any other is...) of the following statement seemed a bit over the top, even for you Oracle. Please offer any facts or substance, if you are able, to substantiate the following:

Oracle: "KCP is way more talented than Bradley, but Bradley has two years more experience and is smarter right now, but he doesn't have the tools or potential that KCP has."

1. Way more talented? Go for it:

2. Doesn't have the tools...KCP has? Go for it:

I won't dig too deeply into the difference between a player being more talented vs a player that gets the most out of his abilities, but that's the difference I see between KCP & Bradley. That's no knock on Bradley, who I have a lot of respect for and hope delivers for us, but I do question his height and how he'll fit our system, but never his heart! (I thought you would back off here. And aren't talent and abilities the same thing worded differently. By any measure, neither is an objective fact but is inferred from performance.
.

If anything I fault SVG for the way everyone looks outside of Reggie & Drummond who have been the focus of everything, both good and bad. I also think we'll see just how much he held back some of the guys that have been set free. Hell, we've already seen how much Tolliver looked away from us, so much that SVG brought him back(to I hope few minutes, but...).

Never did understand the dislike of KCP, a player that did everything asked of him, never complained and has been a class act since leaving, never saying a cross word about anybody or anything, but it's there. Nope, just trying to point out that he was drafted by us, he gets played a lot of minutes, he is taller does not mean he is more talented. I like KCP and advocated for him when he was drafted. I like his hustle, he is quiet, plays hard and is fast and can jump high. I want what is best for the Pistons, that is why I follow them. I think as I said before, he is Mike Curry and Kyle Singler 2.0, he gets minutes and is a coaches favorite, but holds the team back if the assumption is he is core and deserving of all those minutes through good and bad, not situational, which is on SVG not KCP.

I do believe Don & DX when they wished him luck, (I wished him luck too and meant it)
It's just curious to me that since the trade, you have been spewing negativity about one Avery Bradley, as noted by many posters including Sparma and I do believe Sparma when he said he always liked him, just not as a big part of our budget, I'm inclined to feel the same way. However I don't hear much complaint about us spending 30M/yr on three non starters with talent, but not that level of talent. We're also spenfing almost 60M/yr spent on 3 starters with talent, but way under performing. Credit to the blow it up crowd for seeing SVG's budget way out of control for what we're getting. (if it makes you feel better, I agree that we should have gotten assets, picks or players for KCP, Josh and Moose)

KCP & Morris/Baynes guaranteed that I'm getting league pass next season, although I was likely going to do so anyway, I always do if I expect good things out of the Pistons(oops, that might be hyperbole).

I followed almost all of the guys we drafted and kept through most of their rookie contract and some I just liked(Josh) as they went on.

We've been talking mostly NBA & Pistons, but if someone(Sparma) brings up a former Piston, you call it jawjacking? Is there something wrong with that or are there only approved subjects in your opinion?

But Sparma is correct, time will tell, I wish KBP, Morris & Baynes the best of luck... even against us as long as their team loses to us

[Oracle]

Where will LeBron James play following the 2017-18 season? For multiple reasons, the Los Angeles Lakers have received most of the attention. But speaking on CSN New England, Chris Mannix of The Vertical had a different Western Conference team in mind.

Mannix did make it clear that the long talked-about Carmelo Anthony trade must happen first. However, he speculated that if it did, LeBron might join his banana boat buddies Chris Paul and Anthony, along with James Harden, on the Houston Rockets.

“If the Rockets can get their hands on Carmelo Anthony, they would have two of LeBron’s best friends — Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony — on the same team. They would have James Harden, who played USA Basketball with Carmelo Anthony. You’re telling me that those three guys wouldn’t spend the entire season, entire year, recruiting LeBron? We just saw this with Draymond Green, the Warriors, and Kevin Durant. I think those guys would do the same thing to try to lure LeBron to Houston.”

At this point, essentially nothing can be ruled out. If the Cleveland Cavaliers’ 2017-18 season ends in similar (or worse) fashion than the 2016-17 campaign, James will certainly be looking to upgrade, either in Cleveland or elsewhere.

[Oracle]

I'm enjoying your banter, and trying to be objective(this has always been my point, why has/is being objective been such a problem? It infers a bias that I think we all know is/has been there), but i couldn't help but notice hyperbole when it slaps me in the face.  

First off, I am way more concerned for and interested in Bradley and the way forward to keeping him and integrating his defense, leadership and shooting into our Pistons (who need all three), than in jawjacking(then why are you jawjacking?) about one overrated and average SG in KCP(overrated is your opinion and I respect it, obviously that doesn't go both ways) who thumbed his nose at our team and took a lesser offer to leave(Obviously not that concerned if you can't/won't look at the acquisition from all angles other than dreaming it's a perfect match).

That being said, the hyperbole(I see, your opinion is valid, and any other is...) of the following statement seemed a bit over the top, even for you Oracle.  Please offer any facts or substance, if you are able, to substantiate the following:  

Oracle: "KCP is way more talented than Bradley, but Bradley has two years more experience and is smarter right now, but he doesn't have the tools or potential that KCP has."

1. Way more talented? Go for it:

2. Doesn't have the tools...KCP has? Go for it:  

I won't dig too deeply into the difference between a player being more talented vs a player that gets the most out of his abilities, but that's the difference I see between KCP & Bradley. That's no knock on Bradley, who I have a lot of respect for and hope delivers for us, but I do question his height and how he'll fit our system, but never his heart!

If anything I fault SVG for the way everyone looks outside of Reggie & Drummond who have been the focus of everything, both good and bad. I also think we'll see just how much he held back some of the guys that have been set free. Hell, we've already seen how much Tolliver looked away from us, so much that SVG brought him back(to I hope few minutes, but...).

Never did understand the dislike of KCP, a player that did everything asked of him, never complained and has been a class act since leaving, never saying a cross word about anybody or anything, but it's there.

I do believe Don & DX when they wished him luck, and I do believe Sparma when he said he always liked him, just not as a big part of our budget, I'm inclined to feel the same way. However I don't hear much complaint about us spending 30M/yr on three non starters with talent, but not that level of talent. We're also spenfing almost 60M/yr spent on 3 starters with talent, but way under performing. Credit to the blow it up crowd for seeing SVG's budget way out of control for what we're getting.

KCP & Morris/Baynes guaranteed that I'm getting league pass next season, although I was likely going to do so anyway, I always do if I expect good things out of the Pistons(oops, that might be hyperbole).

I followed almost all of the guys we drafted and kept through most of their rookie contract and some I just liked(Josh) as they went on.

We've been talking mostly NBA & Pistons, but if someone(Sparma) brings up a former Piston, you call it jawjacking? Is there something wrong with that or are there only approved subjects in your opinion?

But Sparma is correct, time will tell, I wish KBP, Morris & Baynes the best of luck... even against us as long as their team loses to us 

[BallinD]

I'm enjoying your banter, and trying to be objective, but i couldn't help but notice hyperbole when it slaps me in the face.

First off, I am way more concerned for and interested in Bradley and the way forward to keeping him and integrating his defense, leadership and shooting into our Pistons (who need all three), than in jawjacking about one overrated and average SG in KCP who thumbed his nose at our team and took a lesser offer to leave.

That being said, the hyperbole of the following statement seemed a bit over the top, even for you Oracle. Please offer any facts or substance, if you are able, to substantiate the following:

Oracle: "KCP is way more talented than Bradley, but Bradley has two years more experience and is smarter right now, but he doesn't have the tools or potential that KCP has."

1. Way more talented? Go for it:

2. Doesn't have the tools...KCP has? Go for it:

[Sparma]

I hope KCP reads your stuff, Oracle, because it should be music to his ears. I've always liked the guy as a player and person (if not as a massive chunk of our budget) and I hope things work out for him. Who knows, we may even see him back in the D.

Sounds like you've got the agent patter down, Oracle. To me, it's courageous to bet on yourself sometimes, but foolhardy to do so without an astute reading of the situation. If I've just let 80/4 ride for 18/1 and my agent's telling me I'm going to be the best FA SG on the market last year, while I know that my old team felt a SG who will be a FA next year was better and also I know Philly preferred to sign another SG with one superb skill who'll be a FA next year, I'd be inclined to question his judgment a bit and go with my own gut instincts (and those of my family and friends). Now if that's what KCP's done already, good on him. btw talk of a no trade clause is a red herring(what red herring, if you read what I said, that was to highlight his lack of control, you have to look at things in context, it's not just the single words), because KCP's never going to get that. If he ends up staying in LA on a nice contract, and becomes part of a great team, along with LeBron, the gamble paid off(This is not that big a gamble). If he ends up needing to accept a contract of 10 or under, as I was reading is thought to be a possibility, then he can feel that his agent really misread the situation. It's another of those time-will-tell stories.

He will be the best SG FA on the market! For whatever reason, there aren't that many 2 way SG's in this league, it's mostly the offensive guys or the defensive ones.

KCP is way more talented than Bradley, but Bradley has two years more experience and is smarter right now, but he doesn't have the tools or potential that KCP has.

It's the height of stupidity to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. SVG's offense won't change, and that offense stifles the SG position, his offense always has, that's logic not agent patter. It's astute to get the hell out of a bad situation.

The bigger gamble is picking up Bradley! You can listen to all of that presser sugar talk all you want, but it' all show.

If Bradley does well here, he's GONE! If he doesn't do well, he's likely still gone as everybody would blame SVG and want him anyway. But the market for 6'2 SG's is something I'd worry about if I'm a GM, which is why there were no other takers for Bradley, and Boston shopped him hard, even they don't want a 6'2 SG anymore, even though they say they loved him.

If they could only get one taker, only because they were left at the alter by KCP and he(Bradley) is cheap as hell, what does that tell you?

I've not seen your negative analysis on that subject

[Oracle]

Sounds like you've got the agent patter down, Oracle. To me, it's courageous to bet on yourself sometimes, but foolhardy to do so without an astute reading of the situation. If I've just let 80/4 ride for 18/1 and my agent's telling me I'm going to be the best FA SG on the market last year, while I know that my old team felt a SG who will be a FA next year was better and also I know Philly preferred to sign another SG with one superb skill who'll be a FA next year, I'd be inclined to question his judgment a bit and go with my own gut instincts (and those of my family and friends). Now if that's what KCP's done already, good on him. btw talk of a no trade clause is a red herring(what red herring, if you read what I said, that was to highlight his lack of control, you have to look at things in context, it's not just the single words), because KCP's never going to get that. If he ends up staying in LA on a nice contract, and becomes part of a great team, along with LeBron, the gamble paid off(This is not that big a gamble). If he ends up needing to accept a contract of 10 or under, as I was reading is thought to be a possibility, then he can feel that his agent really misread the situation. It's another of those time-will-tell stories.

He will be the best SG FA on the market! For whatever reason, there aren't that many 2 way SG's in this league, it's mostly the offensive guys or the defensive ones.

KCP is way more talented than Bradley, but Bradley has two years more experience and is smarter right now, but he doesn't have the tools or potential that KCP has.

It's the height of stupidity to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. SVG's offense won't change, and that offense stifles the SG position, his offense always has, that's logic not agent patter. It's astute to get the hell out of a bad situation.

The bigger gamble is picking up Bradley! You can listen to all of that presser sugar talk all you want, but it' all show.

If Bradley does well here, he's GONE! If he doesn't do well, he's likely still gone as everybody would blame SVG and want him anyway. But the market for 6'2 SG's is something I'd worry about if I'm a GM, which is why there were no other takers for Bradley, and Boston shopped him hard, even they don't want a 6'2 SG anymore, even though they say they loved him.

If they could only get one taker, only because they were left at the alter by KCP and he(Bradley) is cheap as hell, what does that tell you?

I've not seen your negative analysis on that subject

[Sparma]

Sounds like you've got the agent patter down, Oracle. To me, it's courageous to bet on yourself sometimes, but foolhardy to do so without an astute reading of the situation. If I've just let 80/4 ride for 18/1 and my agent's telling me I'm going to be the best FA SG on the market last year, while I know that my old team felt a SG who will be a FA next year was better and also I know Philly preferred to sign another SG with one superb skill who'll be a FA next year, I'd be inclined to question his judgment a bit and go with my own gut instincts (and those of my family and friends). Now if that's what KCP's done already, good on him. btw talk of a no trade clause is a red herring, because KCP's never going to get that. If he ends up staying in LA on a nice contract, and becomes part of a great team, along with LeBron, the gamble paid off. If he ends up needing to accept a contract of 10 or under, as I was reading is thought to be a possibility, then he can feel that his agent really misread the situation. It's another of those time-will-tell stories.

Oracle I highly respect your opinion but didn't you know that SVG was forced into another cover up to confess that he is to blame for anything that might reflect in a negative way in the direction of the team Captain. The press happily reports on SVG's failings too. This is one happy family with AD, TG, SVG, and the press. We fans are left to pick up the pieces and find some joy in watching the pre game dance that will be on that big screen next season. Stan is the whipping boy. The owner makes the decisions and everyday the value of the team grows regardless of how the team plays. So as Murph points out who can argue with that? If Andre wants to post up, he will get the ball or there will be hell to pay. If Andre doesn't want to play defense the coach better not use any harsh words even that one statement about not being engaged enough caused SVG to get a whipping. It is the pre game dancing and the shimmy that people will get next season Oracle. But how could you know? You are an honest fan. I am getting excited about SVG's post game press conferences next season to see how he spins it after loses. Who will he be told to blame. Will it be Ellenson, Johnson, Kennard, or Avery Bradley? Nobody will remember about the tip in by Andre's man. 

I think SVG will change your mind.

While I believe Gores is in his grill about Dre, just watch as Kennard gets G-League time and Ellenson is declared not as good as Leuer or some other PF. Of course I hope it isn't true, but we've seen this movie before.

If that's a good move for KCP, I guess I just don't think like him at all. If I'd known how everything was going to unfold, I'd gladly have taken the 80/4 over 18/1. He's likely out of LA next year, but who knows. I think his agent says he'll be the main SG on the FA market next year, just as he is this year, which is weird because Bradley will be out there, as well as Redick, as well as some guys comparable with him. Oh well. If KCP plays well he'll be fine. And I won't earn the measly 18 mil he gets this year in my lifetime, so it's hard to feel too much pity for him.

You're not thinking like a man that believes in himself, and that's where KCP is. 

Beyond a doubt the Laker situation is better for him than here, it's not even close.

However, you seem to me, and I may be wrong, that you look for the negative in a positive. Everybody here thought 16M was about right for where he was, and he gets 18M, could have got more if the Lakers could clear more. No, it wasn't what they claimed they wanted, but it's still more than I think the raw numbers would normally warrant. But somehow, he gets more than you thought he should get and it's a negative?

You also see security where there is none.

There is no security in a contract with a liar. Also without a no trade clause, which he couldn't get, signing here only lets SVG deal you anywhere he wants.... now he has a say in where he goes.

All of the tea leaves point to him and his big bro uniting in LA, so is there risk? Yes, but the ONLY no risk situation with total security is DEATH... always bet on yourself!

[Oracle]

Oracle I highly respect your opinion but didn't you know that SVG was forced into another cover up to confess that he is to blame for anything that might reflect in a negative way in the direction of the team Captain. The press happily reports on SVG's failings too. This is one happy family with AD, TG, SVG, and the press. We fans are left to pick up the pieces and find some joy in watching the pre game dance that will be on that big screen next season. Stan is the whipping boy. The owner makes the decisions and everyday the value of the team grows regardless of how the team plays. So as Murph points out who can argue with that? If Andre wants to post up, he will get the ball or there will be hell to pay. If Andre doesn't want to play defense the coach better not use any harsh words even that one statement about not being engaged enough caused SVG to get a whipping. It is the pre game dancing and the shimmy that people will get next season Oracle. But how could you know? You are an honest fan. I am getting excited about SVG's post game press conferences next season to see how he spins it after loses. Who will he be told to blame. Will it be Ellenson, Johnson, Kennard, or Avery Bradley? Nobody will remember about the tip in by Andre's man. 

I think SVG will change your mind.

While I believe Gores is in his grill about Dre, just watch as Kennard gets G-League time and Ellenson is declared not as good as Leuer or some other PF. Of course I hope it isn't true, but we've seen this movie before.

If that's a good move for KCP, I guess I just don't think like him at all. If I'd known how everything was going to unfold, I'd gladly have taken the 80/4 over 18/1. He's likely out of LA next year, but who knows. I think his agent says he'll be the main SG on the FA market next year, just as he is this year, which is weird because Bradley will be out there, as well as Redick, as well as some guys comparable with him. Oh well. If KCP plays well he'll be fine. And I won't earn the measly 18 mil he gets this year in my lifetime, so it's hard to feel too much pity for him.

You're not thinking like a man that believes in himself, and that's where KCP is. 

Beyond a doubt the Laker situation is better for him than here, it's not even close.

However, you seem to me, and I may be wrong, that you look for the negative in a positive. Everybody here thought 16M was about right for where he was, and he gets 18M, could have got more if the Lakers could clear more. No, it wasn't what they claimed they wanted, but it's still more than I think the raw numbers would normally warrant. But somehow, he gets more than you thought he should get and it's a negative?

You also see security where there is none.

There is no security in a contract with a liar. Also without a no trade clause, which he couldn't get, signing here only lets SVG deal you anywhere he wants.... now he has a say in where he goes.

All of the tea leaves point to him and his big bro uniting in LA, so is there risk? Yes, but the ONLY no risk situation with total security is DEATH... always bet on yourself!

[Sparma]

If that's a good move for KCP, I guess I just don't think like him at all. If I'd known how everything was going to unfold, I'd gladly have taken the 80/4 over 18/1. He's likely out of LA next year, but who knows. I think his agent says he'll be the main SG on the FA market next year, just as he is this year, which is weird because Bradley will be out there, as well as Redick, as well as some guys comparable with him. Oh well. If KCP plays well he'll be fine. And I won't earn the measly 18 mil he gets this year in my lifetime, so it's hard to feel too much pity for him.

There are a LOT of reasons this is an excellent move for KCP.

1. SVG is just a terrible coach, more on that in the next post
2. The Lakers offer a gold plated organization on the west coast! There's no end to the opportunities there if you're successful
3. Magic and the Lakers are happy to get him and the love in genuine
4. He gets a rookie in Ball, but after seeing summer league, that rookie is a fantastic distributor and one of the best on the break
5. No more standing around while PG X pounds the ball, the Lakers want to get back to SHOWTIME, and KCP totally fits this plan
6. In an offense designed to feature him and deliver the opportunity to STOP hanging out at the 3 point line, he's a better player

Even more importantly is who's in his corner: Magic and LeBron

Yes, LeBron, and that shocked me a bit, I never knew those two were close, but they are.

However, it’s hard not to notice Paul (also a longtime friend of the Cavaliers star) now has a direct line of communication to general manager Rob Pelinka and the Lakers front office without fear of tampering.

Caldwell-Pope, whose future in Los Angeles is indefinite, said James is like a “big brother” to him. It’s worth mentioning that when Caldwell-Pope signed with the team, James tweeted his congratulations and called the 24-year-old guard his little brother.

I believe KCP made all the right moves, and judging from the way LeBron and his Wife wants to go to LA, I don't think KCP ever wanted to stay here, this opportunity is just too good.

I remembered that KCP had been offered 80 mil for 5 after the season, but had forgotten (per Freep) that he was offered 80 mil for 4 years before the season.  Oof.  That's a lot to pass up on.  Getting 20-22 mil for 4 or 5 years would have been a good guess, I think, before the season.  Passing that up before the season, with a significant risk of injury, posed quite a gamble.

In retrospect, that looks like a bad choice.

Also, it makes it more understandable that SVG wanted to move very quickly when alternatives presented themselves.  Bad to lose a pretty good, promising, SG for nothing but cap advantages, but we could still be discussing the KCP situation, wondering if a bid was going to come in at this point.   Maybe SVG didn't make the right decision (time will tell), but it kinda makes sense to go in a different direction if one really good offer and another good offer were turned down.

I continue to think it's easier for an agent to make a gamble for more money than for a player to walk away from 80 mil.  Players without agents used to get done in by front offices routinely; these days I think following the advice of the agent isn't always beneficial to the player.  I bet KCP would like to have the 80/4 offer back; he'd still be a young man at the end, eligible for another big contract.

[cool breeze]

This is a very good article on Drummond and how under SVG he want from efficient to inefficient, and how he could get better.

It's very detailed, but a good read and, IMO, shows how bad SVG has been in using, not only Drummond, but IMO, almost everybody on the team badly.

Like most here, I'm hoping for a big change from SVG, but I wouldn't put ANY money on it!

The Detroit Pistons are destroying what was once one of the most promising young careers in the NBA. The Pistons are sabotaging their own offense and limiting themselves to a ceiling of mediocrity. Yes, I’m talking about Andre Drummond post-ups.

Drummond has been and can be a difference-maker in the NBA. Perhaps one day he'll even grow into the superstar everybody wants him to be. But he'll never be a good post-up player.

They need to stop. Now.

It’s impossible to put the blame entirely on one person. Certainly, the combination of Drummond and Stan Van Gundy have led us down this path. But whether it’s primarily the guy shooting the shots or the one calling the plays doesn’t matter. Time has run out.

Oracle I highly respect your opinion but didn't you know that SVG was forced into another cover up to confess that he is to blame for anything that might reflect in a negative way in the direction of the team Captain. The press happily reports on SVG's failings too. This is one happy family with AD, TG, SVG, and the press. We fans are left to pick up the pieces and find some joy in watching the pre game dance that will be on that big screen next season. Stan is the whipping boy. The owner makes the decisions and everyday the value of the team grows regardless of how the team plays. So as Murph points out who can argue with that? If Andre wants to post up, he will get the ball or there will be hell to pay. If Andre doesn't want to play defense the coach better not use any harsh words even that one statement about not being engaged enough caused SVG to get a whipping. It is the pre game dancing and the shimmy that people will get next season Oracle. But how could you know? You are an honest fan. I am getting excited about SVG's post game press conferences next season to see how he spins it after loses. Who will he be told to blame. Will it be Ellenson, Johnson, Kennard, or Avery Bradley? Nobody will remember about the tip in by Andre's man.

[cool breeze]

Don, you do realize you just quoted yourself, right?

Yes, clearly Drummond and Gores are good friends.  I'm guessing the two bonded several years ago, when Gores chaperoned Drummond and McCurdy on their date in LA.  

It would not surprise me if Drummond has Gores' personal cell phone number and permission to call him anytime...like when Marcus Morris spouts off in a players only meeting.

I admit this comes from the category of, "you can't make this stuff up."  Nevertheless, that is the reality that SVG is living in.  

But as bizarre as this may seem, who's to say, Gores is wrong?  After all, Gores bought the Pistons for $325 million in 2011, and they're now worth a nifty $900 million according to Forbes.  And that figure will increase even more when the Pistons move downtown.  So I'm sure Tom Gores has no qualms about being besties with Drummond, while he counts his $575 million in increased net worth in only 6 years.

Wow $900M is the current value of the Pistons? Don't go to medical school. Don't become an engineer. Start sweeping the floors or picking up garbage as a kid in some professional sports organization and move on up. It doesn't matter if the new arena is empty. Some rich person with a big ego will want to guy the Pistons regardless of what is going on relating to the actual games. Let's party! At some point this entire bubble will come crashing down as more and more people stop identifying with the entire NBA product. Then they might go out on Tuesday and Friday night and watch the local high school teams where innocent kids fight it out for their conference championship. No mega rich owners contaminating the game there yet. Sometimes whey you think that you have it all you wake up and realize that you don't. I really liked the interview with Bernie Korzar the Cleveland Browns old quarterback who stated peacefully and calmly that his own Father and family members stole most of his money before he even realized it. After getting married he soon realized that his wife had the same personality as his Father. They took it all from him and he was left with nothing but himself and his old injuries. Yet he knew that his life was a happier one than those who stole all those millions.

SVG, the coaching staff and the GM must have to walk on tip toes knowing they better not piss off Andre Drummond. Maybe this season Tom Gores will insist that SVG and all of his assistants dance with Andre in Andre's circle just to make sure that everyone knows that Andre Drummond is the captain. All of the lights ill go off and one big spot light will show Andre inside the circle telling the coaches to get out of the circle. SVG will have a puzzled look on his face and will flap his arms two times as he walks to his seat on the bench. Notes will be transferred during the games from the owner to SVG to insist on more post up plays for AD. The only living soul Stan will be able to vet to will be his dog who will still have behavior issues. I'll bet that Avery Bradley will not be one of the insignificant roster players who form the circle for the mega former all star AD. Fans like kid Rock who are close to the floor might hear Avery say what the hell is going on? Arn't we here to play basketball? Then Tom might appear out of nowhere after looking at his hidden cameras step and say do you want to be traded? This is Andre's team. Show him some support. Avery might be the only player who will say please trade me. Meanwhile after the game when SVG has to attend another beating at the post game press conference the snow is flying outside the arena and the windshield wipers are moving fast. Tom will be driving Andre and his date to a private party where movie deals will be discussed. Andre will feel a bit down after Whiteside gets another tip in over Andre's head to win the game but not to worry because the owner will be there to console our big center. After all who cares about the game anyway. the value of the Pistons will continue to rise. The local papers will report the following morning about the fierce fight that is going on for playing time at the power forward position with no mention of the last second win by Miami with that tip in. SVG will be forced to blame the Ellenson for causing the loss this time to divert attention from the team Captain. SVG won't tell the press about his special instructions from Tom after the game. The owner might insist that SVG place some extra consideration with playing time for those power forwards who cheer the loudest and clap while Andre does the shimmy during the games and shows the most support for Andre's pre game dance routine. Now that I think about it, maybe Tom Gores is on to something. Maybe this could turn into a situation where fans just come to see what will happen next with the AD and TG show. There will some great half time entertainment as well.

[Oracle]

This is a very good article on Drummond and how under SVG he want from efficient to inefficient, and how he could get better.

It's very detailed, but a good read and, IMO, shows how bad SVG has been in using, not only Drummond, but IMO, almost everybody on the team badly.

Like most here, I'm hoping for a big change from SVG, but I wouldn't put ANY money on it!

The Detroit Pistons are destroying what was once one of the most promising young careers in the NBA. The Pistons are sabotaging their own offense and limiting themselves to a ceiling of mediocrity. Yes, I’m talking about Andre Drummond post-ups.

Drummond has been and can be a difference-maker in the NBA. Perhaps one day he'll even grow into the superstar everybody wants him to be. But he'll never be a good post-up player.

They need to stop. Now.

It’s impossible to put the blame entirely on one person. Certainly, the combination of Drummond and Stan Van Gundy have led us down this path. But whether it’s primarily the guy shooting the shots or the one calling the plays doesn’t matter. Time has run out.

[Oracle]

There are a LOT of reasons this is an excellent move for KCP.

1. SVG is just a terrible coach, more on that in the next post
2. The Lakers offer a gold plated organization on the west coast! There's no end to the opportunities there if you're successful
3. Magic and the Lakers are happy to get him and the love in genuine
4. He gets a rookie in Ball, but after seeing summer league, that rookie is a fantastic distributor and one of the best on the break
5. No more standing around while PG X pounds the ball, the Lakers want to get back to SHOWTIME, and KCP totally fits this plan
6. In an offense designed to feature him and deliver the opportunity to STOP hanging out at the 3 point line, he's a better player

Even more importantly is who's in his corner: Magic and LeBron

Yes, LeBron, and that shocked me a bit, I never knew those two were close, but they are.

However, it’s hard not to notice Paul (also a longtime friend of the Cavaliers star) now has a direct line of communication to general manager Rob Pelinka and the Lakers front office without fear of tampering.

Caldwell-Pope, whose future in Los Angeles is indefinite, said James is like a “big brother” to him. It’s worth mentioning that when Caldwell-Pope signed with the team, James tweeted his congratulations and called the 24-year-old guard his little brother.

I believe KCP made all the right moves, and judging from the way LeBron and his Wife wants to go to LA, I don't think KCP ever wanted to stay here, this opportunity is just too good.

I remembered that KCP had been offered 80 mil for 5 after the season, but had forgotten (per Freep) that he was offered 80 mil for 4 years before the season.  Oof.  That's a lot to pass up on.  Getting 20-22 mil for 4 or 5 years would have been a good guess, I think, before the season.  Passing that up before the season, with a significant risk of injury, posed quite a gamble.

In retrospect, that looks like a bad choice.

Also, it makes it more understandable that SVG wanted to move very quickly when alternatives presented themselves.  Bad to lose a pretty good, promising, SG for nothing but cap advantages, but we could still be discussing the KCP situation, wondering if a bid was going to come in at this point.   Maybe SVG didn't make the right decision (time will tell), but it kinda makes sense to go in a different direction if one really good offer and another good offer were turned down.

I continue to think it's easier for an agent to make a gamble for more money than for a player to walk away from 80 mil.  Players without agents used to get done in by front offices routinely; these days I think following the advice of the agent isn't always beneficial to the player.  I bet KCP would like to have the 80/4 offer back; he'd still be a young man at the end, eligible for another big contract.

[Sparma]

I remembered that KCP had been offered 80 mil for 5 after the season, but had forgotten (per Freep) that he was offered 80 mil for 4 years before the season. Oof. That's a lot to pass up on. Getting 20-22 mil for 4 or 5 years would have been a good guess, I think, before the season. Passing that up before the season, with a significant risk of injury, posed quite a gamble.

In retrospect, that looks like a bad choice.

Also, it makes it more understandable that SVG wanted to move very quickly when alternatives presented themselves. Bad to lose a pretty good, promising, SG for nothing but cap advantages, but we could still be discussing the KCP situation, wondering if a bid was going to come in at this point. Maybe SVG didn't make the right decision (time will tell), but it kinda makes sense to go in a different direction if one really good offer and another good offer were turned down.

I continue to think it's easier for an agent to make a gamble for more money than for a player to walk away from 80 mil. Players without agents used to get done in by front offices routinely; these days I think following the advice of the agent isn't always beneficial to the player. I bet KCP would like to have the 80/4 offer back; he'd still be a young man at the end, eligible for another big contract.

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